Should I be the one who got away?
August 18, 2013 8:36 AM Subscribe
Two women, two very different paths in life. Is there a third option that I can't see? Excessive detail inside.
I was married for about nine years, length of relationship about 14, since I was 19 years old, with an emotionally abusive woman. I've been divorced from my ex-wife for just about two.
The last two years have been personally amazing, though emotionally trying, for me. I've loved exploring and living on my own, doing what I want to do, for the first time in my adult life.
It probably comes as no surprise that the main stressors in my life now are new relationships. Here's the current situation.
I'm romantically involved with two women:
The first I've known for many years. We got together last year for a few months. She dumped her live-in boyfriend instantly and it was on. We were long distance (NY to DC), but things worked beautifully (it was like the heavens opened up for me, emotionally) and I was prepared to move to be closer to her. Last fall she decided she hadn't ended things well with her boyfriend and has since been in a state of non-relationship stasis living with him ever since. He's unemployed and depressed, she's depressed (though in therapy and on meds for it) supporting him, and they can't seem to break out of the failed relationship. Through this whole time she's professed her undying love to me, but needs more time to "end it properly." We both agree that our time together was perfect, but I simply don't know how to proceed with a person who doesn't have the strength to leave a bad relationship for a potentially amazing one. I broke off most contact in April, but a secret visit she made to me in June has me reeling again. In the meantime, I've been hanging on for her for nearly a year now.
The second woman is here at home. We're also incredibly compatible and I have a wonderful time with her. She's going through a divorce and has a child, which makes seeing each other difficult. There is a part of me that feels I could be happy with her long-term, and she is absolutely sure about me from her perspective. We've been there for each other since we both decided to divorce our spouses, as friends, and more recently as lovers. But I don't want to stay here at home any more, and I know getting involved long-term with a woman with a younger child (nine) will force me to stay here in the suburbs indefinitely. But her emotional stability and strength are huge for me, and I know we'd be great together.
Am I crazy to keep holding on for a woman still involved with someone else, no matter how lovelessly? I'm considering moving to DC to start a new life with or without her … but I feel stuck. I tried dating, and just being alone, and my thoughts just keep going back to that wonderful time we had. It's pure misery. Your thoughts? Admonishments? What's the third option?
I was married for about nine years, length of relationship about 14, since I was 19 years old, with an emotionally abusive woman. I've been divorced from my ex-wife for just about two.
The last two years have been personally amazing, though emotionally trying, for me. I've loved exploring and living on my own, doing what I want to do, for the first time in my adult life.
It probably comes as no surprise that the main stressors in my life now are new relationships. Here's the current situation.
I'm romantically involved with two women:
The first I've known for many years. We got together last year for a few months. She dumped her live-in boyfriend instantly and it was on. We were long distance (NY to DC), but things worked beautifully (it was like the heavens opened up for me, emotionally) and I was prepared to move to be closer to her. Last fall she decided she hadn't ended things well with her boyfriend and has since been in a state of non-relationship stasis living with him ever since. He's unemployed and depressed, she's depressed (though in therapy and on meds for it) supporting him, and they can't seem to break out of the failed relationship. Through this whole time she's professed her undying love to me, but needs more time to "end it properly." We both agree that our time together was perfect, but I simply don't know how to proceed with a person who doesn't have the strength to leave a bad relationship for a potentially amazing one. I broke off most contact in April, but a secret visit she made to me in June has me reeling again. In the meantime, I've been hanging on for her for nearly a year now.
The second woman is here at home. We're also incredibly compatible and I have a wonderful time with her. She's going through a divorce and has a child, which makes seeing each other difficult. There is a part of me that feels I could be happy with her long-term, and she is absolutely sure about me from her perspective. We've been there for each other since we both decided to divorce our spouses, as friends, and more recently as lovers. But I don't want to stay here at home any more, and I know getting involved long-term with a woman with a younger child (nine) will force me to stay here in the suburbs indefinitely. But her emotional stability and strength are huge for me, and I know we'd be great together.
Am I crazy to keep holding on for a woman still involved with someone else, no matter how lovelessly? I'm considering moving to DC to start a new life with or without her … but I feel stuck. I tried dating, and just being alone, and my thoughts just keep going back to that wonderful time we had. It's pure misery. Your thoughts? Admonishments? What's the third option?
The third option is what it always is: say a fond goodbye to both these relationships, move to where you want to live, and move on. And it sounds like option 3 is the right one for you. You don't sound that enthusiastic towards the second woman (bad) and you sound sort of contemptuous of the first (even worse.) You're in your early thirties, and in just two years of being single you've gotten involved in two serious relationships that you really value -- doesn't it seem likely that if you move to a big city you'll find yourself in more such relationships, with women who aren't tied to a place you don't want to live or a boyfriend they don't want to leave?
posted by escabeche at 8:46 AM on August 18, 2013
posted by escabeche at 8:46 AM on August 18, 2013
It sounds like you're in love with the first woman, but not in love with the second woman.
I think that you should end things with the second woman and tell the first woman that you won't see her or talk to her until/unless she has really and truly ended things with her boyfriend.
posted by treese at 8:48 AM on August 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
I think that you should end things with the second woman and tell the first woman that you won't see her or talk to her until/unless she has really and truly ended things with her boyfriend.
posted by treese at 8:48 AM on August 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
Spend some time thinking about the difference between limerance and love. Spend some time not in any relationship. It doesnt sound like two years of living on your own, its sounds like two years of being caught up in romance and drama.
posted by SyraCarol at 8:56 AM on August 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by SyraCarol at 8:56 AM on August 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
Just a couple things to think about, although you need to decide:
Before you get involved with someone, try to see how they treat others and what they say about others, because unfortunately this is what most likely suggests a trend and a pattern. So if someone "instantly" dumped a live in boyfriend, then that would suggest that the same will happen to you or the person will never decide.You have hung around long enough to see this play out over and over again, so why are you doing this?
You sound absolutely ambivalent about person 2 (as in where you live is more important). If you are that ambivalent and a young child is involved,think ahead.Because although you may walk away from the relationship later on, a child may not understand.
The other small observation is why have the last 2 potential people been very involved with another partner? Is there a reason that you are seeking them out? Why not look for partners who are already separated and have been single for a while? This may or may not be a problem, just something to think about.
posted by Wolfster at 9:00 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Before you get involved with someone, try to see how they treat others and what they say about others, because unfortunately this is what most likely suggests a trend and a pattern. So if someone "instantly" dumped a live in boyfriend, then that would suggest that the same will happen to you or the person will never decide.You have hung around long enough to see this play out over and over again, so why are you doing this?
You sound absolutely ambivalent about person 2 (as in where you live is more important). If you are that ambivalent and a young child is involved,think ahead.Because although you may walk away from the relationship later on, a child may not understand.
The other small observation is why have the last 2 potential people been very involved with another partner? Is there a reason that you are seeking them out? Why not look for partners who are already separated and have been single for a while? This may or may not be a problem, just something to think about.
posted by Wolfster at 9:00 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
You should break it off with both women.
You aren't interested in the second woman at all.
The first woman is stringing you along. You should tell her not to contact you until she is fully broken up with, and living apart from, her BF.
In my opinion the first woman is likely to disappoint you one way or another, but you're in love with her, so you won't be able to let go of her emotionally just like that. However, I would bet that if she ever does get back in touch because she ever has broken up with her BF, you may have outgrown her by then.
posted by tel3path at 9:01 AM on August 18, 2013
You aren't interested in the second woman at all.
The first woman is stringing you along. You should tell her not to contact you until she is fully broken up with, and living apart from, her BF.
In my opinion the first woman is likely to disappoint you one way or another, but you're in love with her, so you won't be able to let go of her emotionally just like that. However, I would bet that if she ever does get back in touch because she ever has broken up with her BF, you may have outgrown her by then.
posted by tel3path at 9:01 AM on August 18, 2013
By the way, with the first woman, it's not clear from your description whether she or he actually moved out when she broke with him the first time. If not, it seems more like she was possibly just telling you that she broke up with him, but being more ambiguous with him.
Anyway, it will be really hard to cut off contact with her, but it's probably the best thing for you. If you continue to see her while she's still with her boyfriend, then (1) you're compromising your own morality/integrity by being involved in her infidelity, and (2) you're giving her some escapism from her relationship that lets her continue to not deal with the problems in it that have nothing to do with you.
I don't agree with the idea that cheaters always cheat or that a new relationship that starts in circumstances like these is always doomed. People can change and learn from their mistakes. But you can't know if she will or not. All you can do is act with integrity yourself and hope that that has some influence on her. And if it doesn't, if she doesn't ever break up with him, or if you're over her by the time she does, then you won't be with her but you'll be happy without her (and you'll have had more time to get over her and go through that process if you cut off contact now).
posted by treese at 9:14 AM on August 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Anyway, it will be really hard to cut off contact with her, but it's probably the best thing for you. If you continue to see her while she's still with her boyfriend, then (1) you're compromising your own morality/integrity by being involved in her infidelity, and (2) you're giving her some escapism from her relationship that lets her continue to not deal with the problems in it that have nothing to do with you.
I don't agree with the idea that cheaters always cheat or that a new relationship that starts in circumstances like these is always doomed. People can change and learn from their mistakes. But you can't know if she will or not. All you can do is act with integrity yourself and hope that that has some influence on her. And if it doesn't, if she doesn't ever break up with him, or if you're over her by the time she does, then you won't be with her but you'll be happy without her (and you'll have had more time to get over her and go through that process if you cut off contact now).
posted by treese at 9:14 AM on August 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Has it crossed your mind that you left an emotionally abusive marriage and fell in love with an emotionally abusive woman?
And that there's none of that lovey-dovey stuff with a woman who comes across as being kind, as having a good head on her shoulders?
posted by ambient2 at 9:15 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
And that there's none of that lovey-dovey stuff with a woman who comes across as being kind, as having a good head on her shoulders?
posted by ambient2 at 9:15 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
You know, when you interact with emotionally abusive people for years at a time, you get used to having an obsessive focus on your relationship.
This is an awful lot of angst and indecision going on here, and I wonder if it's holding your attention when, underneath it all, there's just not that much worth hanging on for.
Basically, you get used to having an antagonist. You may hate the abuse, but when it goes away, your mind is still spinning and has nowhere to rest itself. Now there's no abuse going on, but a whole lot of attention-absorbing conflict and confusion.
I think maybe you need to cool down a bit, be on your own for a while. I hate it when people say good relationships are "boring" - gee, that really motivates me to get into a good relationship and yawn my way from here to eternity with Joe Average. If good relationships are boring, I'll pass. But I do believe people who say good relationships are easy in that they don't involve this kind of reluctance around basic facts of each other's living situations.
You know what I think a good relationship looks like? You know that episode of Columbo where they stage Mrs Columbo's funeral, and Columbo wraps up the case and calls Mrs Columbo to tell her he's just about to set off home, and they get all caught up in enjoyable conversation and instead of leaving, he sits down to keep talking because he's just enjoying talking to her so much. That's a good relationship, and apparently it's not boring. That's the kind of relationship I want to be in. I would not want to be hanging on endlessly for someone who was stringing me along, nor would I like to be contemplating the unenjoyment of a LTR with someone who I thought seemed good on paper even though they didn't light my fire.
posted by tel3path at 9:16 AM on August 18, 2013 [14 favorites]
This is an awful lot of angst and indecision going on here, and I wonder if it's holding your attention when, underneath it all, there's just not that much worth hanging on for.
Basically, you get used to having an antagonist. You may hate the abuse, but when it goes away, your mind is still spinning and has nowhere to rest itself. Now there's no abuse going on, but a whole lot of attention-absorbing conflict and confusion.
I think maybe you need to cool down a bit, be on your own for a while. I hate it when people say good relationships are "boring" - gee, that really motivates me to get into a good relationship and yawn my way from here to eternity with Joe Average. If good relationships are boring, I'll pass. But I do believe people who say good relationships are easy in that they don't involve this kind of reluctance around basic facts of each other's living situations.
You know what I think a good relationship looks like? You know that episode of Columbo where they stage Mrs Columbo's funeral, and Columbo wraps up the case and calls Mrs Columbo to tell her he's just about to set off home, and they get all caught up in enjoyable conversation and instead of leaving, he sits down to keep talking because he's just enjoying talking to her so much. That's a good relationship, and apparently it's not boring. That's the kind of relationship I want to be in. I would not want to be hanging on endlessly for someone who was stringing me along, nor would I like to be contemplating the unenjoyment of a LTR with someone who I thought seemed good on paper even though they didn't light my fire.
posted by tel3path at 9:16 AM on August 18, 2013 [14 favorites]
So basically you're stringing along woman # 2 while you get strung along by woman # 1.
I think you should listen to "Bizarre Love Triangle" a few times and then cut your involvement with both of these women and move somewhere where you can start fresh. Neither one is good for you, and you're not good for either of them.
posted by wondermouse at 9:40 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think you should listen to "Bizarre Love Triangle" a few times and then cut your involvement with both of these women and move somewhere where you can start fresh. Neither one is good for you, and you're not good for either of them.
posted by wondermouse at 9:40 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
You extricated yourself from a 14-year emotional drama only to seek out a new emotional drama. Stop this madness. End it with both women, deal with the pain, and move on.
I get the feeling you seek out women with baggage, both emotional or otherwise. This might be a topic for exploration with a therapist. If you feel the urge to date women you envision yourself "fixing" or "being there for" you need to do some thorough personal work. There are many healthy, confident and emotionally stable women out there that you can form a non-dramatic fulfilling relationship with if that is what you prioritize.
posted by jnnla at 9:50 AM on August 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
I get the feeling you seek out women with baggage, both emotional or otherwise. This might be a topic for exploration with a therapist. If you feel the urge to date women you envision yourself "fixing" or "being there for" you need to do some thorough personal work. There are many healthy, confident and emotionally stable women out there that you can form a non-dramatic fulfilling relationship with if that is what you prioritize.
posted by jnnla at 9:50 AM on August 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
I tried...just being alone... It's pure misery.
Get right with you first before getting with somebody else. If being alone is pure misery (and I'm reading this correctly, it wasn't just the memories but the being alone or randomly dating etc were all pure misery) you are not in a position to be a good partner for somebody else.
Stop sleeping with both women, work on yourself; it'll sort itself out.
posted by kmennie at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2013 [10 favorites]
Get right with you first before getting with somebody else. If being alone is pure misery (and I'm reading this correctly, it wasn't just the memories but the being alone or randomly dating etc were all pure misery) you are not in a position to be a good partner for somebody else.
Stop sleeping with both women, work on yourself; it'll sort itself out.
posted by kmennie at 9:55 AM on August 18, 2013 [10 favorites]
You're not really in two relationships. You're really in like, 1/3 of a relationship with two different women. Both of these women have unresolved, complicated relationships that they need to work on. At the same time, it sounds like you really need to take a breather from relationships, and work on yourself.
Dating can be hard. Being alone can be hard. Being in a good relationship? Not as hard as what you've got going on.
posted by sm1tten at 9:59 AM on August 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
Dating can be hard. Being alone can be hard. Being in a good relationship? Not as hard as what you've got going on.
posted by sm1tten at 9:59 AM on August 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
You're being cruel to woman #2, and if you loved her enough to be with her long term or marry her, you wouldn't permit yourself to be so cruel to her. During this "secret visit" in June, did you cheat on woman #2? Lie by omission? Withhold information that would let her make the correct decisions about her own life? If so, then you don't care about her interests and therefore don't love her. Sure everyone can make mistakes, and if you did major soul searching and corrected it you two could potentially be fine together. But currently, she can probably do better than the version of you she's getting -- a version of you that is stringing her along, deceitful and hung up on someone else.
posted by htid at 10:04 AM on August 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by htid at 10:04 AM on August 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
The first woman was your rebound. It gives you all the feels, but you've burned the bridge to a long-term relationship.
The second woman is nice, but you're not obligated to be with someone because they're nice. You're not that into her.
Like everyone else has said, move on. There are other women in the world.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:15 AM on August 18, 2013
The second woman is nice, but you're not obligated to be with someone because they're nice. You're not that into her.
Like everyone else has said, move on. There are other women in the world.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:15 AM on August 18, 2013
We were long distance (NY to DC), but things worked beautifully (it was like the heavens opened up for me, emotionally)
Also, about this: there's a good chance you're projecting some very unrealistic relationship fantasies onto this woman. Long distance makes it really easy for that to happen. It's likely that a real, non-long-distance relationship with her would not be the dream relationship you think it would be. You're both cheating on your SOs with each other. You are both serving as band-aids for each other's gaping emotional wounds. As exciting as it is, this isn't how stable, non-maddening relationships are formed.
posted by wondermouse at 10:18 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, about this: there's a good chance you're projecting some very unrealistic relationship fantasies onto this woman. Long distance makes it really easy for that to happen. It's likely that a real, non-long-distance relationship with her would not be the dream relationship you think it would be. You're both cheating on your SOs with each other. You are both serving as band-aids for each other's gaping emotional wounds. As exciting as it is, this isn't how stable, non-maddening relationships are formed.
posted by wondermouse at 10:18 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't necessarily agree you couldn't be with #2. I think some people feel spark for things / people who are bad for them, and if you're like that, if your past relationships are the relationship equivalent of some crazy drug, it takes awhile to adjust to the relatively more mild spark of a healthy relationship.
You should move on from #1. It's been almost a year? Give her a deadline if you want to, but I think you're right to be cutting off contact.
posted by salvia at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2013
You should move on from #1. It's been almost a year? Give her a deadline if you want to, but I think you're right to be cutting off contact.
posted by salvia at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2013
When I clicked on this post, I was thinking "man, a bunch of people are going to trot out the old 'if you can't pick between two you don't want either' thing, and I don't really buy into that at all! Maybe he really DOES want one of them!"
Then I read the rest of your question.
I was married for about nine years, length of relationship about 14, since I was 19 years old, with an emotionally abusive woman. I've been divorced from my ex-wife for just about two.
It probably comes as no surprise that the main stressors in my life now are new relationships.
No, it sure doesn't come as a surprise. Ever since you were a KID- because 19 is still basically a kid in our society- you've spent all of your emotional energy managing an abusive relationship with a woman. She probably tied up all of your brain power in The Relationship, and you've spent your ENTIRE adult life being The Guy With The Difficult Relationship.
So now you're in your mid-30s, and you've been exploring and living on my own, doing what I want to do, for the first time in my adult life. But now you think, hey, now it's time for A Relationship! It's been two years, I'm doing much better now, so I need to Find A Future Wife to Replace The Old One.
Only, you chose the first two women who you were even vaguely compatible with to date, because you don't know how to evaluate whether a partner is right for you. You never had the chance to try! So if it looks like you COULD have a relationship with someone, you don't spend any time thinking about whether it's actually a good idea to date them. You just go for it. That's a mistake.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:22 AM on August 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Then I read the rest of your question.
I was married for about nine years, length of relationship about 14, since I was 19 years old, with an emotionally abusive woman. I've been divorced from my ex-wife for just about two.
It probably comes as no surprise that the main stressors in my life now are new relationships.
No, it sure doesn't come as a surprise. Ever since you were a KID- because 19 is still basically a kid in our society- you've spent all of your emotional energy managing an abusive relationship with a woman. She probably tied up all of your brain power in The Relationship, and you've spent your ENTIRE adult life being The Guy With The Difficult Relationship.
So now you're in your mid-30s, and you've been exploring and living on my own, doing what I want to do, for the first time in my adult life. But now you think, hey, now it's time for A Relationship! It's been two years, I'm doing much better now, so I need to Find A Future Wife to Replace The Old One.
Only, you chose the first two women who you were even vaguely compatible with to date, because you don't know how to evaluate whether a partner is right for you. You never had the chance to try! So if it looks like you COULD have a relationship with someone, you don't spend any time thinking about whether it's actually a good idea to date them. You just go for it. That's a mistake.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:22 AM on August 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
1st woman is not single, and is making no move to be single. Tell her you value her as a friend, but are moving on. See Fish or cut bait.
2nd woman is almost single, but you different lives. Move forward with the life you want, and it will become more obvious if this relationship is right for you.
Therapy. You have a lot of baggage left over from your mariage, and a good therapist can really help.
posted by theora55 at 10:27 AM on August 18, 2013
2nd woman is almost single, but you different lives. Move forward with the life you want, and it will become more obvious if this relationship is right for you.
Therapy. You have a lot of baggage left over from your mariage, and a good therapist can really help.
posted by theora55 at 10:27 AM on August 18, 2013
The first woman wasn't available when you met her, and isn't available now. You were also her accomplice in cheating on a live-in boyfriend, and causing him harm. Please don't do that again to another person.
The second woman isn't really available either until her divorce becomes final. She was low-hanging fruit for you. You're not into staying in the suburbs, where it sounds like she'll need to remain to co-parent her child. Nor have you expressed any interest in helping her raise the kid. Frankly, it sounds more like you want her to "mom" you as well.
So, looking at your choices so far, I think you might want to consider sprouting a set of ethics for your lovelife, and conduct yourself accordingly. It'll prevent you from landing in these same painful situations.
That code of conduct might include:
Don't poach other people's partners. Don't go out with unavailable people. Don't have "secret" trysts or otherwise be anything less than honest with whomever you are involved with.
Don't use other people to salve your emotional wounds, or to shield you from the process of learning to be alone and OK with it.
In other words, don't engage in emotionally abusive behavior. Obey the Silver Rule.
posted by nacho fries at 10:39 AM on August 18, 2013 [8 favorites]
The second woman isn't really available either until her divorce becomes final. She was low-hanging fruit for you. You're not into staying in the suburbs, where it sounds like she'll need to remain to co-parent her child. Nor have you expressed any interest in helping her raise the kid. Frankly, it sounds more like you want her to "mom" you as well.
So, looking at your choices so far, I think you might want to consider sprouting a set of ethics for your lovelife, and conduct yourself accordingly. It'll prevent you from landing in these same painful situations.
That code of conduct might include:
Don't poach other people's partners. Don't go out with unavailable people. Don't have "secret" trysts or otherwise be anything less than honest with whomever you are involved with.
Don't use other people to salve your emotional wounds, or to shield you from the process of learning to be alone and OK with it.
In other words, don't engage in emotionally abusive behavior. Obey the Silver Rule.
posted by nacho fries at 10:39 AM on August 18, 2013 [8 favorites]
Rebound is written all over this. Pass on both of them, please.
posted by Jacen at 11:01 AM on August 18, 2013
posted by Jacen at 11:01 AM on August 18, 2013
You might be in your 30's, but your approach to relationships reads like that of a teenager's, all this talk of emotional highs and everything being amazing and perfect. That's not your fault, really. You were in a bad relationship from age 19-33. That's a time in life when a lot of people go through a lot of emotional growth, either through dating various people and learning from different relationships, or being in one healthy long-term relationship that grows from teenage love to adult love, or even just being by themselves and growing as a person.
Being stuck in an abusive relationship for that long can stunt someone's emotional growth. My advice: don't date either of these 2 women (neither of them are available to you, in any event), or anyone else for a good while. I'd also recommend seeing a therapist to try to work out (a) why you stayed with your ex for so long; and (b) why you now feel the need to find a new relationship to cling to, even with inappropriate women.
posted by Asparagus at 11:11 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Being stuck in an abusive relationship for that long can stunt someone's emotional growth. My advice: don't date either of these 2 women (neither of them are available to you, in any event), or anyone else for a good while. I'd also recommend seeing a therapist to try to work out (a) why you stayed with your ex for so long; and (b) why you now feel the need to find a new relationship to cling to, even with inappropriate women.
posted by Asparagus at 11:11 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Two women, two very different paths in life. Is there a third option that I can't see?
Let's see, a woman who isn't interested in you, and a woman you'd feel like you were giving up a lot in life to stay with.
You know, it so happens that there are many, many other women out there in the world that you could potentially date. Women who are available, who you might find yourself interested enough in that you aren't weighing whether or not you'd prefer to move away and live somewhere else rather than date them.
There's third options, fourth options, fifth options, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth, thirteenth, fourteenth, fifteenth, sixteenth, seventeenth, eighteenth, nineteenth, twentieth, twenty first, twenty second...
she decided she hadn't ended things well with her boyfriend... needs more time to "end it properly."
She started dating him again because she didn't do a good job breaking up the first time around? Don't date this person.
posted by yohko at 11:16 AM on August 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Let's see, a woman who isn't interested in you, and a woman you'd feel like you were giving up a lot in life to stay with.
You know, it so happens that there are many, many other women out there in the world that you could potentially date. Women who are available, who you might find yourself interested enough in that you aren't weighing whether or not you'd prefer to move away and live somewhere else rather than date them.
There's third options, fourth options, fifth options, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth, thirteenth, fourteenth, fifteenth, sixteenth, seventeenth, eighteenth, nineteenth, twentieth, twenty first, twenty second...
she decided she hadn't ended things well with her boyfriend... needs more time to "end it properly."
She started dating him again because she didn't do a good job breaking up the first time around? Don't date this person.
posted by yohko at 11:16 AM on August 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
What's the third option?
The third option is YOU. Not once in the post you mention what you really want from a relationship, or what your personal goals are. Its kind of futile to ask people to help you choose from two "options" when you haven't even told them what it is you are looking for. Interestingly (or sadly) this sounds very much like a profile on internet dating when people go on and on about what they love to do but forget to mention a silly, trivial point- what the heck are you looking for?
The third option- the only real sensible option- is to look internally and figure out what you want first. If you want a relationship with women to pass the time, you seem to be doing rather well right now. What's the problem really? If you want to build a solid, lasting relationship with someone then you should be able to choose wisely between the two "options" you have. These women are real people, who might have more hope from the relationship (esp the second woman with the child) and you are being a jerk in stringing this one along further. Real people who get hurt needlessly in the process.
You have not done the work you need to be ready for a relationship. Have you thought that maybe if new relationships are stressing you out then there might be something residual from your own past that needs to be taken care of? Not with buddies over beer but with a professional? If you were ready, you'd have the answer to your question. This kind of premature rebound situation, without doing any work on own self after a relationship ends, is exactly how relationship baggage gets passed around.
Don't pass that baggage around.
posted by xm at 11:19 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
The third option is YOU. Not once in the post you mention what you really want from a relationship, or what your personal goals are. Its kind of futile to ask people to help you choose from two "options" when you haven't even told them what it is you are looking for. Interestingly (or sadly) this sounds very much like a profile on internet dating when people go on and on about what they love to do but forget to mention a silly, trivial point- what the heck are you looking for?
The third option- the only real sensible option- is to look internally and figure out what you want first. If you want a relationship with women to pass the time, you seem to be doing rather well right now. What's the problem really? If you want to build a solid, lasting relationship with someone then you should be able to choose wisely between the two "options" you have. These women are real people, who might have more hope from the relationship (esp the second woman with the child) and you are being a jerk in stringing this one along further. Real people who get hurt needlessly in the process.
You have not done the work you need to be ready for a relationship. Have you thought that maybe if new relationships are stressing you out then there might be something residual from your own past that needs to be taken care of? Not with buddies over beer but with a professional? If you were ready, you'd have the answer to your question. This kind of premature rebound situation, without doing any work on own self after a relationship ends, is exactly how relationship baggage gets passed around.
Don't pass that baggage around.
posted by xm at 11:19 AM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Another point...
Should I be the one who got away?
Yes.
I hate to burst your bubble and I say this with kindness: you do not sound like "the one" the second woman would miss anyway. The first woman probably won't even notice, you know, with the other boyfriend hanging around. So, yeah, good for everyone involved.
posted by xm at 11:24 AM on August 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
Should I be the one who got away?
Yes.
I hate to burst your bubble and I say this with kindness: you do not sound like "the one" the second woman would miss anyway. The first woman probably won't even notice, you know, with the other boyfriend hanging around. So, yeah, good for everyone involved.
posted by xm at 11:24 AM on August 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
^ also this. If the first woman wanted to be with you, she would be with you. She chose her boyfriend. You're allowed to think that's a stupid choice and that she'd be way better off with you, but it's her choice and there's nothing you can do to change it.
posted by Asparagus at 11:31 AM on August 18, 2013
posted by Asparagus at 11:31 AM on August 18, 2013
You need to get out of these relationships and get into therapy, stat. These relationships are both drama-heavy and unhealthy. Work on you.
posted by windykites at 11:47 AM on August 18, 2013
posted by windykites at 11:47 AM on August 18, 2013
Response by poster: Thank you all for your thoughtful responses, even the ones that aren't very comfortable to hear. (I only took offense to one comment: Nacho Fries, I'm honestly not looking for another mom, I don't think my day-to-day life independence is in question here, just my emotional one.)
I have to confess I left out details in order to make this less laborious to read, and perhaps they would be details that would make me appear to be 30% less of a douchebag. I wanted to hear the hard things from people who don't know me and I'm not sure those details would have changed opinions anyway. Nevertheless, I'm certainly not trying to hurt anyone (especially given my past experience), but I'm doing an excellent job at it.
I have, in fact, been in therapy, though I did stop recently after about 1.5 years as I wanted to try to do things on my own. It sounds contrite, but it's becoming obvious I have a lot more work to do.
Does anyone here have more insight about experiences from a long-term emotionally abusive relationship? Truthfully, I am trying to step gently through my post-marriage life, and figure things out as I go as best I can — all of your words are most appreciated.
posted by MyFrozenYear at 11:50 AM on August 18, 2013
I have to confess I left out details in order to make this less laborious to read, and perhaps they would be details that would make me appear to be 30% less of a douchebag. I wanted to hear the hard things from people who don't know me and I'm not sure those details would have changed opinions anyway. Nevertheless, I'm certainly not trying to hurt anyone (especially given my past experience), but I'm doing an excellent job at it.
I have, in fact, been in therapy, though I did stop recently after about 1.5 years as I wanted to try to do things on my own. It sounds contrite, but it's becoming obvious I have a lot more work to do.
Does anyone here have more insight about experiences from a long-term emotionally abusive relationship? Truthfully, I am trying to step gently through my post-marriage life, and figure things out as I go as best I can — all of your words are most appreciated.
posted by MyFrozenYear at 11:50 AM on August 18, 2013
Please, please consider the words of those that suggest you end it with both women and move on. I agree with escabeche that you should literally move on. You don't like where you are physically, and it's more than time to start out afresh. While I don't believe you can escape yourself and all your problems, I do think sometimes it's easier to make a new start mentally and emotionally if you are starting in a new place physically, with resolve to do things differently and a plan of how to accomplish that.
It sounds to me as if you have defined yourself in terms of the emotionally abused man who can't seem to move on. Seems like you need to rethink that to where you are the person who was formerly in an emotionally abusive relationship, but who is now stronger and able to make healthy decisions about what he wants and where he is going. I agree that renewing your therapy is a healthy decision.
Dump the first woman and don't give her any information about where you are going. Her visiting you in secret involved 'reeling' alright. She is reeling you in in a nasty way, dangling you on her line. She keeps in touch with you just enough to keep you on tenterhooks, knowing that you're emotionally fragile and able to be manipulated. I'm not saying she's evil or even that she knows what she's doing, but right now she's able to have her cake and eat it, too. Sounds very drama queen and selfish to me.
I agree that you're stringing along the second woman in a way that's similar to what the first is doing to you. Please cut ties with both, and find someone who's good to you, good for you, and that you can love openly and whole-heartedly.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:48 PM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
It sounds to me as if you have defined yourself in terms of the emotionally abused man who can't seem to move on. Seems like you need to rethink that to where you are the person who was formerly in an emotionally abusive relationship, but who is now stronger and able to make healthy decisions about what he wants and where he is going. I agree that renewing your therapy is a healthy decision.
Dump the first woman and don't give her any information about where you are going. Her visiting you in secret involved 'reeling' alright. She is reeling you in in a nasty way, dangling you on her line. She keeps in touch with you just enough to keep you on tenterhooks, knowing that you're emotionally fragile and able to be manipulated. I'm not saying she's evil or even that she knows what she's doing, but right now she's able to have her cake and eat it, too. Sounds very drama queen and selfish to me.
I agree that you're stringing along the second woman in a way that's similar to what the first is doing to you. Please cut ties with both, and find someone who's good to you, good for you, and that you can love openly and whole-heartedly.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:48 PM on August 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Does anyone here have more insight about experiences from a long-term emotionally abusive relationship? Truthfully, I am trying to step gently through my post-marriage life, and figure things out as I go as best I can — all of your words are most appreciated.
I came out of an emotionally abusive relationship extremely raw and not really having any idea what healthy felt like, how to go about navigating the dating world (at 30, I'd never dated), and how to go about being in a relationship that made me feel good and stable as opposed to the constant cycle of feeling amazing and then terrible that I'd gotten used to. I'd also gotten used to a codependent dynamic, and I knew I had to get away from that.
What worked for me, while single, was to picture the kind of life I really wanted outside a relationship, and what kind of relationship/personality could work with that. I came to appreciate the value of a true "partner," someone I could realistically build a nice life with, a life that would work for both of us. And then I started doing the OkCupid thing and getting a better idea of what/who else is out there, what I liked, and what I didn't.
If you decide to start actively seeking out a more appropriate partner for yourself, I think the best advice I can offer is to do the best you can to come from a positive perspective. You might have to trick yourself into acting like you didn't actually spend a long time in emotionally abusive relationships, even though it probably still takes up a decent portion of your thoughts.
Don't make your divorce or other failed relationships a topic of conversation with dates until you really get to know each other and the people you are now. Don't get involved with another person out of pain, or because you see that they are in pain and you want to help them and be their romantic partner at the same time, or because you want to fix them or rescue them. Don't form a new romantic relationship that's based on mutual pain and suffering. A good partner is someone who adds value to your life and, to me, makes your life goals easier to attain just by being who they are.
posted by wondermouse at 12:50 PM on August 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
I came out of an emotionally abusive relationship extremely raw and not really having any idea what healthy felt like, how to go about navigating the dating world (at 30, I'd never dated), and how to go about being in a relationship that made me feel good and stable as opposed to the constant cycle of feeling amazing and then terrible that I'd gotten used to. I'd also gotten used to a codependent dynamic, and I knew I had to get away from that.
What worked for me, while single, was to picture the kind of life I really wanted outside a relationship, and what kind of relationship/personality could work with that. I came to appreciate the value of a true "partner," someone I could realistically build a nice life with, a life that would work for both of us. And then I started doing the OkCupid thing and getting a better idea of what/who else is out there, what I liked, and what I didn't.
If you decide to start actively seeking out a more appropriate partner for yourself, I think the best advice I can offer is to do the best you can to come from a positive perspective. You might have to trick yourself into acting like you didn't actually spend a long time in emotionally abusive relationships, even though it probably still takes up a decent portion of your thoughts.
Don't make your divorce or other failed relationships a topic of conversation with dates until you really get to know each other and the people you are now. Don't get involved with another person out of pain, or because you see that they are in pain and you want to help them and be their romantic partner at the same time, or because you want to fix them or rescue them. Don't form a new romantic relationship that's based on mutual pain and suffering. A good partner is someone who adds value to your life and, to me, makes your life goals easier to attain just by being who they are.
posted by wondermouse at 12:50 PM on August 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
Heed wondermouse, seriously.
Coming out of my own emotionally abusive relationship, I had a hard time breaking that cycle. It took me about 3 years to do so. Along the way I had to learn how to:
- be okay with being single, which is not the same thing as being alone.
- learn what the bad partner-choice pattern was, in order to break free of it.
- date. Not jump into insta-relationships, but just... date.
I did this without the benefit of therapy. (Not because I didn't have a therapist, but therapy did not help me.) I say this only to suggest that there is work you can also do on your own.
posted by sm1tten at 1:06 PM on August 18, 2013
Coming out of my own emotionally abusive relationship, I had a hard time breaking that cycle. It took me about 3 years to do so. Along the way I had to learn how to:
- be okay with being single, which is not the same thing as being alone.
- learn what the bad partner-choice pattern was, in order to break free of it.
- date. Not jump into insta-relationships, but just... date.
I did this without the benefit of therapy. (Not because I didn't have a therapist, but therapy did not help me.) I say this only to suggest that there is work you can also do on your own.
posted by sm1tten at 1:06 PM on August 18, 2013
Best answer: So you made a bad choice while young, lived with it for 19 years, and in two years, you are suddenly expecting to be qualified to make a good decision for the next 19 years? Have I got that right?
You've got a non-available person who is sick enough to be on meds, who can't disengage from another sick person who can't find a job. She's willing to dump and hang with you for a while, but can't/won't make a commitment. If I have this correct, is that what you call an emotionally stable woman who is telegraphing signs of being a great long term partner for you? Really?
I won't even go through that process for the other lady, who comes with her negatives checklist pretty much filled in for someone other than you.
Metafilter can help with complex decisions, it's true. Perfect for many things. It won't make up for a decade of personal self-knowledge, gained the hard and slow and deliberate way it takes to make decent decisions. Relationship decisions, especially on the entry side, are really complex, not because they are inherently complicated, but because infatuation and lust are forms of demonstrable drunkenness. Nature has made things this way to get you into breeding mode. Nature does not give a flying fuck if you are happy. Not a factor. She wants you breeding a swarm and your neurons are conspiring to get you into that mode.
Buddy, hand over the keys. You are drunk. So drunk, you think you are sober. So drunk, you can't see these women for what they are... folks seeking something THEY need, not something you need. You don't seem to know what you need. Unless, of course, you need a potential wife who is already depressed, on drugs for depression, in therapy before you even get married, unable to make adult decisions on her own, and with a history of making bad decisions, too. That kind of need has an entry in the DSM.
You obviously are desirable. Hell, you're male, employed, single/available, and able to attract women. Why short circuit this promising constellation with a hasty decision? Take five years, and in the process, find out what YOU need and find the person who fits that model. You're choosing the first two apples you see in the orchard.
posted by FauxScot at 6:02 PM on August 18, 2013 [10 favorites]
You've got a non-available person who is sick enough to be on meds, who can't disengage from another sick person who can't find a job. She's willing to dump and hang with you for a while, but can't/won't make a commitment. If I have this correct, is that what you call an emotionally stable woman who is telegraphing signs of being a great long term partner for you? Really?
I won't even go through that process for the other lady, who comes with her negatives checklist pretty much filled in for someone other than you.
Metafilter can help with complex decisions, it's true. Perfect for many things. It won't make up for a decade of personal self-knowledge, gained the hard and slow and deliberate way it takes to make decent decisions. Relationship decisions, especially on the entry side, are really complex, not because they are inherently complicated, but because infatuation and lust are forms of demonstrable drunkenness. Nature has made things this way to get you into breeding mode. Nature does not give a flying fuck if you are happy. Not a factor. She wants you breeding a swarm and your neurons are conspiring to get you into that mode.
Buddy, hand over the keys. You are drunk. So drunk, you think you are sober. So drunk, you can't see these women for what they are... folks seeking something THEY need, not something you need. You don't seem to know what you need. Unless, of course, you need a potential wife who is already depressed, on drugs for depression, in therapy before you even get married, unable to make adult decisions on her own, and with a history of making bad decisions, too. That kind of need has an entry in the DSM.
You obviously are desirable. Hell, you're male, employed, single/available, and able to attract women. Why short circuit this promising constellation with a hasty decision? Take five years, and in the process, find out what YOU need and find the person who fits that model. You're choosing the first two apples you see in the orchard.
posted by FauxScot at 6:02 PM on August 18, 2013 [10 favorites]
Oh dear, your relationship must have been terrible to thing that either of these women is good for you.
None of the three of you are ready to be in a serious relationship.
Break it off with both and let's try again.
Have you been single for any amount of time? Single as in, not in any relationship. Single as in, "I'm okay on my own." Because until you can be single and enjoy your own company, you're not a good candidate for being in a relationship.
So be single. Take some time to really understand yourself. What do you enjoy doing with your time? What do you like to eat? Do you like kale?
I always recommend engaging in something that will result in an accomplishment at the end of it. I got an MBA, but perhaps a certification in software, or barber college or something like that. You can focus on building this new skill, education or talent, and you'll have something to show for it at the end of the journey.
Get out of the romance game for a year or two. Off the table. You're not ready and your choices are suspect.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:57 AM on August 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
None of the three of you are ready to be in a serious relationship.
Break it off with both and let's try again.
Have you been single for any amount of time? Single as in, not in any relationship. Single as in, "I'm okay on my own." Because until you can be single and enjoy your own company, you're not a good candidate for being in a relationship.
So be single. Take some time to really understand yourself. What do you enjoy doing with your time? What do you like to eat? Do you like kale?
I always recommend engaging in something that will result in an accomplishment at the end of it. I got an MBA, but perhaps a certification in software, or barber college or something like that. You can focus on building this new skill, education or talent, and you'll have something to show for it at the end of the journey.
Get out of the romance game for a year or two. Off the table. You're not ready and your choices are suspect.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:57 AM on August 19, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
You're with two wrong people. The only third option is to find a RIGHT person.
Drop them both, cope with the ending/loss, and move on. You'll eventually find Person C.
posted by like_a_friend at 8:46 AM on August 18, 2013 [52 favorites]