Accompanying teens to AlAnon. What is my responsibility?
August 13, 2013 7:30 AM
Can I morally and ethically be the adult who regularly drives a teenager to a weekly AlAnon/Alateen meeting? Her parents do not know she is attending, and I am not interested in obtaining their permission.
Recently, I discussed the existence of AlAnon/AlaTeen with my teenaged relative who is the child of an active alcoholic. She expressed interest, and with the express permission and support of her (non-alcoholic) parent, I now accompany the teen to a local meeting. This meeting has a "regular" AlAnon meeting (which I now attend), and the teens in the group splinter off into their own, smaller meeting in a room next door. This is all good stuff.
Here's my complication: "My" teen has a close friend (age 14/15) who is the child of 2 active alcoholics. When I picked "my" teen up to go to the most recent meeting, this friend came along. I have now spoken very briefly with this friend, and she feels that she would suffer emotional abuse at the hands of her parents if they knew she was attending these meetings. She has a list of reasons why, but the primary among them is that she feels that her parents would be furious if they knew she revealed details of her home life to anyone outside of the family.
My question is: Can I morally and ethically be the adult who accompanies this other teen to these meetings? The only way she would attend is by riding in my car to the meetings. The adults involved in the meetings know that I am the adult that accompanied this friend to the recent meeting. I am fairly motivated to get this child the support that she so clearly needs and wants. I do not want to engage with the girls parents if at all possible. I just want to give her a ride to a weekly AlAnon/Alateen meeting that I am already going to.
What are my responsibilities to this child? To her family? Can I drive her to this weekly meeting?
Recently, I discussed the existence of AlAnon/AlaTeen with my teenaged relative who is the child of an active alcoholic. She expressed interest, and with the express permission and support of her (non-alcoholic) parent, I now accompany the teen to a local meeting. This meeting has a "regular" AlAnon meeting (which I now attend), and the teens in the group splinter off into their own, smaller meeting in a room next door. This is all good stuff.
Here's my complication: "My" teen has a close friend (age 14/15) who is the child of 2 active alcoholics. When I picked "my" teen up to go to the most recent meeting, this friend came along. I have now spoken very briefly with this friend, and she feels that she would suffer emotional abuse at the hands of her parents if they knew she was attending these meetings. She has a list of reasons why, but the primary among them is that she feels that her parents would be furious if they knew she revealed details of her home life to anyone outside of the family.
My question is: Can I morally and ethically be the adult who accompanies this other teen to these meetings? The only way she would attend is by riding in my car to the meetings. The adults involved in the meetings know that I am the adult that accompanied this friend to the recent meeting. I am fairly motivated to get this child the support that she so clearly needs and wants. I do not want to engage with the girls parents if at all possible. I just want to give her a ride to a weekly AlAnon/Alateen meeting that I am already going to.
What are my responsibilities to this child? To her family? Can I drive her to this weekly meeting?
I'm neither moralist nor ethicist, but I'd have no hesitation in taking a 14/15 year old friend of a relative, so long as the friend and the relative were traveling together. I would not discuss it with the friend's family. If it was the friend alone, without the relative, I'd be more hesitant (in case of accusations of impropriety) but would still feel a responsibility to help arrange transport somehow.
Nelson was serving in the navy at 13. Times have changed in our attitude to childhood, but 14/15 is old enough for someone to make decisions like going to AlAnon/AlaTeen for themselves. Supporting the friend in getting support for themself is the right thing to do.
posted by anadem at 7:41 AM on August 13, 2013
Nelson was serving in the navy at 13. Times have changed in our attitude to childhood, but 14/15 is old enough for someone to make decisions like going to AlAnon/AlaTeen for themselves. Supporting the friend in getting support for themself is the right thing to do.
posted by anadem at 7:41 AM on August 13, 2013
What distinction are you drawing between "morally" and "ethically"? I don't find anything wrong with it, personally. Are you bound by some kind of professional ethical code that might inhibit you from doing this?
posted by thelonius at 7:42 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by thelonius at 7:42 AM on August 13, 2013
This seems fairly ethically unambiguous to me. Getting a child help without the permission of the people who are endangering her well-being is an ethical thing to do.
The other question is what kind of chaos it will lead to if her parents find out about it. That is a sticky situation that could have some unpleasant repercussions. My guess is that you won't be in any legal trouble, because that would shine a spotlight on the parents' alcoholism. I personally feel the risk is worth the rewards.
posted by Kimberly at 7:44 AM on August 13, 2013
The other question is what kind of chaos it will lead to if her parents find out about it. That is a sticky situation that could have some unpleasant repercussions. My guess is that you won't be in any legal trouble, because that would shine a spotlight on the parents' alcoholism. I personally feel the risk is worth the rewards.
posted by Kimberly at 7:44 AM on August 13, 2013
I can't really see what would be preventing you from doing this. Your teenaged family member has two alcoholics as parents who are abusive and who don't want her to get help. You are offering to get her this help.
posted by jeather at 7:45 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by jeather at 7:45 AM on August 13, 2013
Pretend for a moment that these are "normal" (and I use that in the what-would-they-stereotypically-be-doing sense) teenage kids, and that you're driving them to the mall to hang out with friends. The girl may have lied and told her parents she was going over to your relative's house to study, but they're actually going to the mall to hang out, and you're driving them. Kids do that kind of stuff all the time.
Except in your situation, they're not going to a mall, they're going to alateen meetings, something that will actually do them a whole world of good.
This isn't a gray situation to me. You're doing a great thing by providing a ride for this kid. I wouldn't let myself be conflicted about it at all. Thanks for being there for her.
posted by phunniemee at 7:46 AM on August 13, 2013
Except in your situation, they're not going to a mall, they're going to alateen meetings, something that will actually do them a whole world of good.
This isn't a gray situation to me. You're doing a great thing by providing a ride for this kid. I wouldn't let myself be conflicted about it at all. Thanks for being there for her.
posted by phunniemee at 7:46 AM on August 13, 2013
I don't know what the legal repercussions of doing this might be, but morally, I'd say you'd be wrong not to take her.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:48 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by jacquilynne at 7:48 AM on August 13, 2013
I think this is one of these situations that is completely moral/ethical, but perhaps not legal. Depending on your taste for legal risk, you can make your own call. If I were in your position, I'd totally keep taking the kid.
posted by Betelgeuse at 7:51 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by Betelgeuse at 7:51 AM on August 13, 2013
Hey, it's a carpool!
I wouldn't think twice. Take the poor thing, she needs folks with their heads screwed on straight in her life.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:51 AM on August 13, 2013
I wouldn't think twice. Take the poor thing, she needs folks with their heads screwed on straight in her life.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:51 AM on August 13, 2013
Morally, you're doing a good thing.
I would be slightly happier if I knew that she had permission to 'hang out with friend x'. This avoids scenarios like 'she was supposed to be at afterschool program y' or her being uncontactable in an emergency.
Similarly, if she is saying 'studying with x', I would be happier if she did spend at least some time studying with x - even if it's only half an hour after the meeting.
posted by Ashlyth at 7:54 AM on August 13, 2013
I would be slightly happier if I knew that she had permission to 'hang out with friend x'. This avoids scenarios like 'she was supposed to be at afterschool program y' or her being uncontactable in an emergency.
Similarly, if she is saying 'studying with x', I would be happier if she did spend at least some time studying with x - even if it's only half an hour after the meeting.
posted by Ashlyth at 7:54 AM on August 13, 2013
I think there is some moral/ethical weight to not aiding and abetting a teen deceiving their parents. You are a good person for considering that. However, I thing that weight is vastly outweighed by the moral/ethical benefit of helping this kid get some help they need.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:54 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by Rock Steady at 7:54 AM on August 13, 2013
What you are doing seems like a mitzvah to me. You indicate that you are also going to meetings, and I know from my own exposure to 12-step programs that they tend to view lying or keeping secrets to be a part of the addiction. So it's possible that you feel like you are sneaking around in a way that feels at cross-purposes to the stated premises of Al-Anon.
I don't think you are. I think you are doing the right thing here. I don't think you have an obligation to tell the parents in this instance, so your omission does not rise to the level of an unethical deception. But you should feel free to ask someone in leadership, if you can identify such a person at your meeting, what they think of the whole thing.
Having said all of that, and I say this without any judgment, your question does suggest to me that the situation you are in is rather more complicated than a simple "I am driving my kid's friend to a thing" situation. It feels to me like there's more story there than the facts you've given us here, and that some of the story you haven't told us might be relevant. As it's presented I feel the answer to your question is a clear and unambiguous "yes" which leads me to wonder why you have asked it in the first place. What about this situation makes you uncomfortable?
Accordingly, without judgment and without meaning to imply that you have done anything untoward or deceptive, I feel like you might ask yourself whether you have left out any facts which might change or complicate our answers here. If you think you have, you can get in touch with the mods and they can leave a note.
posted by gauche at 7:58 AM on August 13, 2013
I don't think you are. I think you are doing the right thing here. I don't think you have an obligation to tell the parents in this instance, so your omission does not rise to the level of an unethical deception. But you should feel free to ask someone in leadership, if you can identify such a person at your meeting, what they think of the whole thing.
Having said all of that, and I say this without any judgment, your question does suggest to me that the situation you are in is rather more complicated than a simple "I am driving my kid's friend to a thing" situation. It feels to me like there's more story there than the facts you've given us here, and that some of the story you haven't told us might be relevant. As it's presented I feel the answer to your question is a clear and unambiguous "yes" which leads me to wonder why you have asked it in the first place. What about this situation makes you uncomfortable?
Accordingly, without judgment and without meaning to imply that you have done anything untoward or deceptive, I feel like you might ask yourself whether you have left out any facts which might change or complicate our answers here. If you think you have, you can get in touch with the mods and they can leave a note.
posted by gauche at 7:58 AM on August 13, 2013
My question is: Can I morally and ethically be the adult who accompanies this other teen to these meetings?
As an adult child of alcoholics who very much needed and appreciated AlAnon and AlaTeen, I would go so far as to feel in my gut that as long as it is safe to get the kid to the meetings, you would be morally obligated do so. (I hate to say it, but for the sake of propriety and covering your own behind, don't be alone in a car or anywhere really with a child that is not yours/related to you that you don't have specific permission to be transporting. This isn't unethical or illegal, but alcoholic parents can't really be counted on to behave rationally. If you catch my drift.)
Helping children is everyone's job. It takes a village. Etc, etc.
I have something in my eye.
posted by bilabial at 8:00 AM on August 13, 2013
As an adult child of alcoholics who very much needed and appreciated AlAnon and AlaTeen, I would go so far as to feel in my gut that as long as it is safe to get the kid to the meetings, you would be morally obligated do so. (I hate to say it, but for the sake of propriety and covering your own behind, don't be alone in a car or anywhere really with a child that is not yours/related to you that you don't have specific permission to be transporting. This isn't unethical or illegal, but alcoholic parents can't really be counted on to behave rationally. If you catch my drift.)
Helping children is everyone's job. It takes a village. Etc, etc.
I have something in my eye.
posted by bilabial at 8:00 AM on August 13, 2013
It's not medical treatment, and it's something she wants to do. No legal or ethical concerns with that.
My concern would be more in regard to that you may end up finding out that she is being actively abused (physically, emotionally, neglected, whatever it may be) at home, and then your ethical/moral responsibility becomes something much greater. Legally, you are not required to report it, because you aren't in a caregiving or guardian capacity, but that's exactly what you might have to do ethically.
posted by so_gracefully at 8:04 AM on August 13, 2013
My concern would be more in regard to that you may end up finding out that she is being actively abused (physically, emotionally, neglected, whatever it may be) at home, and then your ethical/moral responsibility becomes something much greater. Legally, you are not required to report it, because you aren't in a caregiving or guardian capacity, but that's exactly what you might have to do ethically.
posted by so_gracefully at 8:04 AM on August 13, 2013
Just want to nth that morally and ethically, I would think you have an obligation TO take them. What their alcoholic parents are doing is immoral and unethical.
posted by nevercalm at 8:14 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by nevercalm at 8:14 AM on August 13, 2013
I agree that this is ethically good. If you wanted a little more reassurance, how about talking to the counselor at "your" kid's school to see what they might say? You'd probably have to discuss it in hypothetical terms, because of FERPA rules, but that might be helpful to you -- and provide a little more accountability and support for the student in question.
posted by Madamina at 8:19 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by Madamina at 8:19 AM on August 13, 2013
Not your lawyer, this is not legal advice, &c, but I'm hard-pressed to see what legal trouble you'd be in, driving a teenager to an alateen meeting she has chosen of her own accord to go to.
An alateen meeting is not a place where minors are prohibited and a host of other things I keep typing and deleting. My point is: you are already thinking carefully about this and concerned about the rights and wrongs of the situation. Don't start panicking that it's somehow illegal to give a teenager a ride to a place where she can lawfully be, and is old enough to lawfully be on her own, simply because you don't have the express permission of her parents to drive her to that place.
Short of aiding teens to break the law (like, driving them to a place where they are going to trespass) or breaking the law (like buying them alcohol) or endangering them (like drinking heavily before driving them somewhere), it's not illegal to help a teen do something wholly legal and not inherently dangerous that she doesn't permission to do (like get a haircut, buy a pair of leather pants her mom doesn't want her to have). This teen is not breaking curfew laws or other nanny laws (like going into tattoo parlors) and you are not contributing to any sort of delinquency. Lying to your parents is not, yet as far as I know, illegal in any state.
posted by crush-onastick at 8:26 AM on August 13, 2013
An alateen meeting is not a place where minors are prohibited and a host of other things I keep typing and deleting. My point is: you are already thinking carefully about this and concerned about the rights and wrongs of the situation. Don't start panicking that it's somehow illegal to give a teenager a ride to a place where she can lawfully be, and is old enough to lawfully be on her own, simply because you don't have the express permission of her parents to drive her to that place.
Short of aiding teens to break the law (like, driving them to a place where they are going to trespass) or breaking the law (like buying them alcohol) or endangering them (like drinking heavily before driving them somewhere), it's not illegal to help a teen do something wholly legal and not inherently dangerous that she doesn't permission to do (like get a haircut, buy a pair of leather pants her mom doesn't want her to have). This teen is not breaking curfew laws or other nanny laws (like going into tattoo parlors) and you are not contributing to any sort of delinquency. Lying to your parents is not, yet as far as I know, illegal in any state.
posted by crush-onastick at 8:26 AM on August 13, 2013
Taking her is the right thing to do. Think of the alternative: she identified her problem, reached out for adult help, and the response was, "No, so sorry, that's your family's business to sort out." That is her problem. The idea that she is her parents' responsibility alone is what makes having (an) alcoholic or otherwise abusive parent(s) so very terrible. She's telling you about adults who manipulate her into keeping their actions secret, adults who would twist her world so that this and everything else they do seems normal. I implore you to help her.
posted by teremala at 8:49 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by teremala at 8:49 AM on August 13, 2013
I do not want to engage with the girls parents if at all possible.
Consider if this is realistic. I'm not second-guessing whether it is; it depends on factors you haven't provided, having to do with the people and your relationship to them, so I have no idea. But you should consider whether it's a realistic goal.
I'm always wary when somebody suggests doing something surreptitious with an underage person. You're proposing a good thing, to help someone who needs help, and that's laudable. But my mind goes to the various things that could go wrong—not to talk you out of doing what you're planning, necessarily, merely so that you're aware of possible risks. Kids talk. People don't keep secrets well, and kids especially. Next time her parents blow up at her, and she screams about how they're so horrible that she needs to secretly attend a support group...will that be followed by a knock on your door?
I also think about less probable risks. Generally speaking, I agree a person is probably okay driving a teenager to a nearby support meeting the teen has asked to attend. But if somebody runs a red light and the teen is injured...? You're not necessarily in hot water. You're not necessarily in any water at all. But there are scenarios where it's possible, and they aren't so far-fetched as Martians and sea monsters.
I'm not an alcoholic parent, so it's hard for me to see it from their side. But it's worth trying in order to fully answer your question about the ethics of the thing. I can tell you from my shoes, if I discovered an adult was driving around my fourteen-year-old daughter not only without my knowledge but in fact as a deliberate secret from me...I'd have you served with a restraining order.
Just some food for thought. None of this is intended as advice, and most certainly not as legal advice. What you're considering is a kind thing for kind reasons. Good luck, whatever you decide.
posted by cribcage at 8:52 AM on August 13, 2013
Consider if this is realistic. I'm not second-guessing whether it is; it depends on factors you haven't provided, having to do with the people and your relationship to them, so I have no idea. But you should consider whether it's a realistic goal.
I'm always wary when somebody suggests doing something surreptitious with an underage person. You're proposing a good thing, to help someone who needs help, and that's laudable. But my mind goes to the various things that could go wrong—not to talk you out of doing what you're planning, necessarily, merely so that you're aware of possible risks. Kids talk. People don't keep secrets well, and kids especially. Next time her parents blow up at her, and she screams about how they're so horrible that she needs to secretly attend a support group...will that be followed by a knock on your door?
I also think about less probable risks. Generally speaking, I agree a person is probably okay driving a teenager to a nearby support meeting the teen has asked to attend. But if somebody runs a red light and the teen is injured...? You're not necessarily in hot water. You're not necessarily in any water at all. But there are scenarios where it's possible, and they aren't so far-fetched as Martians and sea monsters.
I'm not an alcoholic parent, so it's hard for me to see it from their side. But it's worth trying in order to fully answer your question about the ethics of the thing. I can tell you from my shoes, if I discovered an adult was driving around my fourteen-year-old daughter not only without my knowledge but in fact as a deliberate secret from me...I'd have you served with a restraining order.
Just some food for thought. None of this is intended as advice, and most certainly not as legal advice. What you're considering is a kind thing for kind reasons. Good luck, whatever you decide.
posted by cribcage at 8:52 AM on August 13, 2013
Yes, I should say, parents might try to make trouble for you, if they find out, and cribcage has identified reasonable potential legal liabilities from car accidents, but in the end, you are not committing a crime, nor most likely doing anything legally actionable, driving a teen somewhere she can lawfully be without parental permission.
posted by crush-onastick at 9:01 AM on August 13, 2013
posted by crush-onastick at 9:01 AM on August 13, 2013
I fully support your desire to help this teen. However, the end does not justify the means. I think going behind a parent's back to facilitate something for their minor to do that they may not support for whatever reason (and you only have one side of the story here) is ethically challenged. I cannot speak for your morals, but know that there are some people who view this both ways. I think both the yes and no camps have valid points.
I think that the hard part about understanding some situations from an ethical standpoint is that one must separate what may be "right" (and isn't seemingly helping a child always right?) from what is ethically appropriate.
It also seems to me that you are making the assumption that this teen's parents will never find out if you don't tell them. If the teen's assumptions about the reaction of her parents if they were to find out are true, then you taking her to the meetings could actually be putting her in harms way that she otherwise does not have now. Either way, she is the victim of living with two alcoholics that don't seem to be willing to address it. If you take her and they find out and start with emotional or even physical abuse because of your wish to help, that will be a heavy burden for the teen to bear and in a different way a heavy burden for you.
I would ask the teen to ask permission and for permission for you to make a follow-up call to discuss it either way. If they say yes, then you want to reassure them that you are responsible and that the intent is for helping their child and they will not be judged. If they say no you could try to convince them that this is a help as you would assure them if they said yes.
Otherwise, I might suggest that the teen talk to their guidance counselor at school for a referral to either the school psychologist or maybe to facilitate a talk with the parents. I am sure the guidance counselor will have other options as well.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:22 AM on August 13, 2013
I think that the hard part about understanding some situations from an ethical standpoint is that one must separate what may be "right" (and isn't seemingly helping a child always right?) from what is ethically appropriate.
It also seems to me that you are making the assumption that this teen's parents will never find out if you don't tell them. If the teen's assumptions about the reaction of her parents if they were to find out are true, then you taking her to the meetings could actually be putting her in harms way that she otherwise does not have now. Either way, she is the victim of living with two alcoholics that don't seem to be willing to address it. If you take her and they find out and start with emotional or even physical abuse because of your wish to help, that will be a heavy burden for the teen to bear and in a different way a heavy burden for you.
I would ask the teen to ask permission and for permission for you to make a follow-up call to discuss it either way. If they say yes, then you want to reassure them that you are responsible and that the intent is for helping their child and they will not be judged. If they say no you could try to convince them that this is a help as you would assure them if they said yes.
Otherwise, I might suggest that the teen talk to their guidance counselor at school for a referral to either the school psychologist or maybe to facilitate a talk with the parents. I am sure the guidance counselor will have other options as well.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:22 AM on August 13, 2013
I would ask the teen to ask permission and for permission for you to make a follow-up call to discuss it either way.
No no no. Do NOT put this person in danger, which is what this would be doing.
Personally, I would do it. I understand your hesitations completely, and if there was a way to ask her to get permission to hang out with your daughter (no details) while you were supervising, which you are, that would make me feel better. (But even if that weren't possible, I'd still do it- I just wouldn't feel as great about it.)
posted by small_ruminant at 9:41 AM on August 13, 2013
No no no. Do NOT put this person in danger, which is what this would be doing.
Personally, I would do it. I understand your hesitations completely, and if there was a way to ask her to get permission to hang out with your daughter (no details) while you were supervising, which you are, that would make me feel better. (But even if that weren't possible, I'd still do it- I just wouldn't feel as great about it.)
posted by small_ruminant at 9:41 AM on August 13, 2013
Nthing that it would be unethical not to give this poor kid a ride. And frankly, although IANYL, I don't see anything illegal about it, either. You aren't kidnapping the kid or putting the kid in danger. Parents have rights with respect to their children, but I can't see any court in the world holding you liable for driving a minor to an Alateen meeting. What would you even be liable for? Pissing them off?
I strongly disagree with JohnnyGunn's perspective here. There is no reassuring, convincing, or reasoning with two active alcoholics. Calling those two alcoholics, who have already frightened this kid enough that the kid will tell a quasi-stranger that mom and dad will be furious if anyone finds out anything about their home life, is a stupendously terrible idea. Reasoning that the child of two alcoholics shouldn't be assisted in getting help because that will open the child up to danger is like reasoning that a woman whose husband is battering her shouldn't be assisted in getting help because she'll be battered. The danger is there, whether help is sought out or not, and fury over help-seeking would come out some other way, if not that one.
As a matter of fact, I think what you might actually need to worry about here are any mandatory-reporting laws in your jurisdiction. Is this child being abused? If so, you must, must, MUST report your suspicions to authorities. Failure to do so can result in criminal liability in many states.
posted by sevensnowflakes at 9:42 AM on August 13, 2013
I strongly disagree with JohnnyGunn's perspective here. There is no reassuring, convincing, or reasoning with two active alcoholics. Calling those two alcoholics, who have already frightened this kid enough that the kid will tell a quasi-stranger that mom and dad will be furious if anyone finds out anything about their home life, is a stupendously terrible idea. Reasoning that the child of two alcoholics shouldn't be assisted in getting help because that will open the child up to danger is like reasoning that a woman whose husband is battering her shouldn't be assisted in getting help because she'll be battered. The danger is there, whether help is sought out or not, and fury over help-seeking would come out some other way, if not that one.
As a matter of fact, I think what you might actually need to worry about here are any mandatory-reporting laws in your jurisdiction. Is this child being abused? If so, you must, must, MUST report your suspicions to authorities. Failure to do so can result in criminal liability in many states.
posted by sevensnowflakes at 9:42 AM on August 13, 2013
Whatever you do or don't do:
If the teen in question has asked you not to talk to their parents: Don't. Even if that means refusing to ever take the teen again. Don't.
Their chances of being 'alcoholic, well meaning but uninformed' parents compared to 'alcoholic and unstable' parents is... not favourable. And unlike physical abuse, there may be no signs that you or a court could see if it got worse.
posted by Ashlyth at 9:54 AM on August 13, 2013
If the teen in question has asked you not to talk to their parents: Don't. Even if that means refusing to ever take the teen again. Don't.
Their chances of being 'alcoholic, well meaning but uninformed' parents compared to 'alcoholic and unstable' parents is... not favourable. And unlike physical abuse, there may be no signs that you or a court could see if it got worse.
posted by Ashlyth at 9:54 AM on August 13, 2013
In many places, there are laws that require certain adults, upon learning that a child is having mental health issues or is being abused or neglected, to take steps to ensure that the child gets help and support and to keep the child safe. Mandated reporters must, if they even suspect that a child is in trouble at the hands of adults, refer the child to social services and actively work to protect the child from any adult who is seeking to hurt the child or keep the child from getting help.
While it doesn't sound like you're one of the people who is legally required to assist a child who needs help, consider that the reason we have such laws is that it reflects our moral and ethical values as a society that when children are in trouble, adults should help them. And it reflects our view that adults should help them even if (and perhaps especially if) their parents, who are supposed to protect them, are the ones abusing them or are actively against the children getting outside assistance. Those are our values, and they're important ones.
I think that, by giving this child a safe outlet to seek assistance from a situation that may be abusive, neglectful, or mentally harmful, you are acting consistently with the best moral instincts we have as human beings.
(As for the separate question of whether you could get in trouble for transporting a child to a location unknown to her parents without her parents' permission, that's a legal question, and you need to seek legal advice specific to your situation, with many more facts than you've provided here, in order to get the answer to it.)
posted by decathecting at 10:05 AM on August 13, 2013
While it doesn't sound like you're one of the people who is legally required to assist a child who needs help, consider that the reason we have such laws is that it reflects our moral and ethical values as a society that when children are in trouble, adults should help them. And it reflects our view that adults should help them even if (and perhaps especially if) their parents, who are supposed to protect them, are the ones abusing them or are actively against the children getting outside assistance. Those are our values, and they're important ones.
I think that, by giving this child a safe outlet to seek assistance from a situation that may be abusive, neglectful, or mentally harmful, you are acting consistently with the best moral instincts we have as human beings.
(As for the separate question of whether you could get in trouble for transporting a child to a location unknown to her parents without her parents' permission, that's a legal question, and you need to seek legal advice specific to your situation, with many more facts than you've provided here, in order to get the answer to it.)
posted by decathecting at 10:05 AM on August 13, 2013
I agree with those above who say you are right to drive the kid, you should respect their wish not to tell their parents, but that this is a fraught decision and it would be better to know the kid did have permission to hang out with "your" teen.
One other caveat: I can easily imagine a scenario where you might be put in the position of deciding whether to drive the teen you're asking about without "your" teen being present. Maybe "your" teen is sick, or away, or whatever, but the meeting is still happening. In that hypothetical scenario, be very careful (especially if you are male and the teen is female, but really no matter what). I have known people in similar situations who were put in an uncomfortable position when home drama expanded into police/DSS investigations and questions about which adult spent time alone with a minor were raised by authorities.
posted by Wretch729 at 10:06 AM on August 13, 2013
One other caveat: I can easily imagine a scenario where you might be put in the position of deciding whether to drive the teen you're asking about without "your" teen being present. Maybe "your" teen is sick, or away, or whatever, but the meeting is still happening. In that hypothetical scenario, be very careful (especially if you are male and the teen is female, but really no matter what). I have known people in similar situations who were put in an uncomfortable position when home drama expanded into police/DSS investigations and questions about which adult spent time alone with a minor were raised by authorities.
posted by Wretch729 at 10:06 AM on August 13, 2013
I think its wonderful that you want to help this teen, but I'm concerned that your good intentions could backlash against you in the future, especially because you have several degrees of separation from this teenager, your age difference (i.e., you are a legal adult and this teen is not), and you have no firsthand knowledge of this teen's parents.
I'm not certain whether or not you should continue driving this teen to AlaNon. I think your first step is to research the potential consequences of helping this child. Specifically, I recommend speaking with the following individuals to fill in your knowledge gaps:
-your non-alcoholic relative
-Childfind
-AlaNon
Even if you decide to discontinue driving this teen to AlaNon, there is much you can do to help her. The people I listed above are likely to have access to resources and programs that can help this teen. My guess is that his/her situation is not unusual, and they have developed procedures to help teens facing similar circumstances.
posted by emilynoa at 10:37 AM on August 13, 2013
I'm not certain whether or not you should continue driving this teen to AlaNon. I think your first step is to research the potential consequences of helping this child. Specifically, I recommend speaking with the following individuals to fill in your knowledge gaps:
-your non-alcoholic relative
-Childfind
-AlaNon
Even if you decide to discontinue driving this teen to AlaNon, there is much you can do to help her. The people I listed above are likely to have access to resources and programs that can help this teen. My guess is that his/her situation is not unusual, and they have developed procedures to help teens facing similar circumstances.
posted by emilynoa at 10:37 AM on August 13, 2013
I would explain to this teen and to your teenaged relative that you are not comfortable with participating in a lie. That said, if the teen was to tell her parents that she was 'hanging' with your young relative, that would be the strict truth. If you happen to take both kids to the meeting, it in no way violates that truth. I would NOT take this young person to the meeting without her friend, just to cover yourself. Morally and ethically I would say you are obliged to help this kid if she is being emotionally abused by alcoholic parents.
Yes, you are doing agood great thing by helping this kid.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:08 AM on August 13, 2013
Yes, you are doing a
posted by BlueHorse at 11:08 AM on August 13, 2013
I will be the only poster who disagrees. I am not sure why but the mere fact you raise the question is in it self an issue. Ethical or moral decisions rarely require external validation--if you feel ambivalent that is probably because there is no clear answer and it most likely is ethically and morally ambiguous. I think the idea of of routinely and regularly, in a non-emergency situation, transporting a minor any place with out the parents knowledge is problematic. There certainly are potential legal ramifications since the young person has told you her parents would not approve--and those ramifications need to be weighed against your own responsibilities to your loved ones for whom you may have moral and legal obligations. Secondly, it is all to easy for "caring conspiracies" to become unraveled and break what ever trust existed between the many parties and even increase mistrust. I would not do it except on an emergency basis or with the sanction of a parent or appropriate third party. As harsh as it sounds, generosity and caring built on a weak foundation can be very fragile. Also, and this sounds even worse--if this should become exposed I do not have a lot of faith in the accuracy or ability/willingness of a teenager in faithfully recounting what has happened and in agreements made.
posted by rmhsinc at 4:16 PM on August 13, 2013
posted by rmhsinc at 4:16 PM on August 13, 2013
I think you are absolutely doing the ethically right, and morally right, thing. Thank you for helping this young woman.
HOWEVER...I wonder if you're uncertainty comes from not being sure how to proceed if the parents find out. Mistakes happen, and the poor teenager could still wind up facing the wrath of her alcoholic parents.
Maybe it would help you feel less uncertain if you and the teen came up with a plan to make sure she had some place to go? You know, if the truth comes out or things escalate with her folks. Perhaps that's something to discuss at a future Alanon/Alateen meeting?
posted by magstheaxe at 1:06 PM on August 14, 2013
HOWEVER...I wonder if you're uncertainty comes from not being sure how to proceed if the parents find out. Mistakes happen, and the poor teenager could still wind up facing the wrath of her alcoholic parents.
Maybe it would help you feel less uncertain if you and the teen came up with a plan to make sure she had some place to go? You know, if the truth comes out or things escalate with her folks. Perhaps that's something to discuss at a future Alanon/Alateen meeting?
posted by magstheaxe at 1:06 PM on August 14, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
I also think this seems like an excellent thing to bring up and ask about at the meeting right? OK, they are probably a little biased but might also have some good ideas and ways to help.
Really the only hard part is that you, an adult, is taking someone else's child to a place where her parents don't know where she is. But I think as long as her parents know she is hanging out with your teen and you and they are ok with that then you don't have a problem on that level at all...morally, the parents are still going to flip out if they find out and there is a good chance they will so have a plan.
posted by magnetsphere at 7:40 AM on August 13, 2013