Did my mechanic just rip me off?
August 4, 2013 3:44 AM   Subscribe

My front hubcaps are tied on with zip ties. After a major car service, which included checking the brakes and replacing the timing belt, the zip ties are still there. You can't access the wheel nuts without taking off the hub caps. Did my mechanic rip me off?

Both my front wheels’ hubcaps are tied on with white cable/zip ties. (Rear caps were too but after changing both rear tyres over the last few months I didn’t tie them back on.) You can’t access the wheel nuts without taking off the hub caps.

I took my 1999 Mitsubishi Lancer (194,000 kilometers/120,000 miles) in for a major service last week. $900 (AUD), an ‘executive service’ and a timing belt replacement later I have it back. But I’ve just noticed that the cable ties are still there, holding the hubcaps onto both front wheels.

Amongst other things, according to the paperwork, the service included: “check front and rear suspension and steering components”, “remove all wheels and brake drums”, “check and report brake condition”, and “refit drums and wheels”. And according to the timing belt specific service, “raise vehicle on hoist and remove right hand front wheel”. When I was at the mechanic I saw the car on the hoist, so I know they did that, at least. But I don’t remember if I saw the wheels on or off.

I don’t know much about cars, but according to Google searches, front brake pads for my car are for sale, suggesting that my car has front brakes, and according to YouTube instructions on how to replace a timing belt, you need to remove the front wheel(s).

The cable ties on the front wheels don’t look new, and it seems very unlikely that the mechanic would replace the ties, doesn’t it?

What seems more likely – that the mechanic actually checked everything and replaced the zip ties on the front wheels only, making them look ‘not new’, or that he didn’t even take off the wheel?

This is a mechanic I’ve gone to for about six years, and now I’m confused and frustrated!
posted by UltraFleece to Travel & Transportation (15 answers total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
 
Best answer: So I assume that the caps can't be just flipped aside somehow with the strips left in place, right?

Realistic, to some degree: replaced zip ties. Unrealistic: making them look 'not new'.

Go back and ask. Would be interesting to hear their answer, no? If they're at all interested to keep a customer of six years, they'll re-shuffle themselves.
I mean, this is a no-brainer: if they bill you for a readjustment that's actually necessary and they don't do it, you go back and make them do it (because it's necessary). No extra billing, though.


Otherwise it's time to dtmfa
posted by Namlit at 4:04 AM on August 4, 2013


Best answer: I don’t know much about cars, but according to Google searches, front brake pads for my car are for sale, suggesting that my car has front brakes.

All cars have front brakes.

Call them out on it. Ask them point blank if they replaced your timing belt. If they say they did, ask them how they managed to pull the wheels off the car with the hub caps intact.

You basically have "tamper evident" seals on your wheels. There is no evidence that they were tampered, which they would've had to have been for a timing belt replacement.

When they stumble with an explanation, explain that you'll need them to re-do the entire service again, since it's not clear what they did for your money. (And the timing belt is by far the most expensive component of your service.)

If they refuse, explain to them they'll be seeing a chargeback (assuming you used a credit card) and communication from whatever local business group and/or news reporter folk and/or their regional office if they're a chain, and then raise hell.

If they insist they made the fix, ask them to demonstrate for you the removal of the wheels with the hub caps intact.
posted by disillusioned at 4:15 AM on August 4, 2013 [17 favorites]


according to YouTube instructions on how to replace a timing belt, you need to remove the front wheel(s).

Is this a typo? Do you mean that YouTube indicates it's necessary to remove the wheels to check the brakes?

Regardless, I think you're sounding a bit paranoid. YouTube is not some final authority on car repair and maintenance procedures. It's absolutely routine for mechanics to approach tasks in a variety of ways, i.e. there are many way to skin any given cat.
posted by jon1270 at 4:35 AM on August 4, 2013


If it's the engine I'm thinking of, you would absolutely have to remove the wheel and liner to get access.

With that said, I'm not a mechanic but I do some work on cars and if I worked on a car with the wheel covers zip tied on, the person would get it back with the wheel covers zip tied back on. And the zip ties in the shop have been hanging out getting dusty and yellow for quite some time. So I think you have to ask. Hopefully they can show a receipt for the belt, or a stack of identical wire ties, or what not.
posted by ftm at 4:42 AM on August 4, 2013


Best answer: Sorry, I skimmed your post a bit to casually. I see that you're concerned at least in part because the paperwork they gave you itemized particular steps including wheel removal. I'm surprised the invoice got into that much detail, it's almost as if they're copying parts of the shop manual as an explanation of what you're being charged for.

But then this catches my eye: “remove all wheels and brake drums”

In the USA, AFAIK, there are no drum front brakes anymore. The Lancer is sold here too, and I would be amazed if yours has drum front brakes. That might make a difference in the inspection procedure, in that it's probably not necessary to remove the wheels to inspect disc brakes.

according to Google searches, front brake pads for my car are for sale

Brake pads are for disc brakes. Drum brakes use brake *shoes*.
posted by jon1270 at 4:44 AM on August 4, 2013 [2 favorites]


Also, it's even possible to release a zip tie and re-install it, unless the free end had been cut off flush after being pulled tight in which case it would be impractically difficult.
posted by jon1270 at 4:59 AM on August 4, 2013


Are you certain that the zip ties hold the hub caps on the wheel, not just on part of the hubcap to another(i.e. the outer plastic part to an inner metal part).
posted by 445supermag at 7:07 AM on August 4, 2013


If I were a betting man, and I am, I would bet they didn't do some of the work. However, I do think it a real possibility (not probability) that they undid the zip tie and put them back. It can be done.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:46 AM on August 4, 2013


Best answer: jon1270: ". I see that you're concerned at least in part because the paperwork they gave you itemized particular steps including wheel removal."

Yeah, when transferring time from the computer "book", the descriptions can be copied too. Almost all shops use "book" hours - if it gives you 1.6 hours for a timing belt, you charge 1.6 hours for the timing belt. This protects the customer; my lead mechanic can sometimes beat a 3.5 hour estimate down to 3.2 hours, but one of the other mechanics had a Stratus whose timing belt took two days, not 3.0 hours. Still the customer was charged 3.0 hours.

I work at a shop. If the customer's car came in with zip ties, it leaves with zip ties. We have a giant tub of zip ties because a lot of cars are held together with them. Personally, I try to "save" larger zip ties, which is possible in many cases.

All cars have front brakes, except those in which the front brakes have failed. However, disk brakes can be inspected without removal of the wheel. On most cars it's significantly easier to change the timing belt through the wheel well, i.e. with the tire removed; however there are exceptions (longitudinally mounted engines) or the mechanic may know a trick if he works on a lot of your type of car.
posted by notsnot at 7:53 AM on August 4, 2013 [9 favorites]


I can check most brakes for wear w/out removing the wheels; but as part of an 'executive service' I'd be taking the hub caps / wheels off and doing a full on eyes on 360 degree visual of the wheel cylinder; brake lines, etc.
A second opinion should be able to tell if the timing belt cover had at least been removed.

If I were a regular customer, I would expect the shop mgr to respect me enough to take me on a 20-30 minute educational point and show where and what they did with my vehicle.

- Devil's advocate; garage overhead is horrific, too often the bottom line is the mechanic who bears the brunt of small pay and a too rapid pace of work expected. That being said; brakes and suspension are the most critical components of a car and if a shop is coming up short on those services it is probably failing completely on others.
posted by buzzman at 9:13 AM on August 4, 2013


If the zip ties are the same: I think you've been ripped off. I expect the wheels to come off in a major service as part of the visual check. Worse, the kind of garage that didn't even check enough to notice the zip ties won't have done other stuff too.

I can't believe anyone would go to the bother of undoing zip ties and replacing them with THE SAME zip ties.

If they were a good garage they'd remove the zip ties and replace them with new ones. I'd be clear they didn't do that, and clear about why the wheels were not removed before throwing around accusations.
posted by MuffinMan at 10:05 AM on August 4, 2013


Zip ties aren't too hard to remove if you want you save them. A knife or a screwdriver works fine to pry up the locking mechanism. So, it is technically possible that they carefully removed yours and put them back on when they were done, but I have a hard time imagining why they'd bother. I'm with everybody else that the work probably wasn't done.
posted by zug at 12:43 PM on August 4, 2013


Maybe check that they aren't reusable ties.

I've used zip ties that have a small tab on the lug part of the tie, depressing it disengages the latch from the teeth and allows you to undo the tie properly.

Personally I prefer disposable ties. To hell with them! :)
posted by curtj at 4:43 PM on August 4, 2013


A timing belt with 60,000 mi. on it is probably pretty easy to distinguish from a new one, so if you decide they are lying to you, it may not be that difficult to prove.
posted by jamjam at 5:00 PM on August 4, 2013 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thanks all for your help. I contacted the mechanic and he said he didn't take off the wheels. The notes on the service invoice apparently come from the software they use and are standard. He said he could check the condition of the brakes from under the car without removing the wheels and that he could access the timing belt by turning the wheels full lock and accessing the engine through the gap.

I've booked it in to another mechanic on Saturday and they said they'll check the timing belt free of charge for me. I'm still skeptical of my old mechanic but I'll see what turns up.

Thanks again everyone.
posted by UltraFleece at 2:55 AM on August 5, 2013 [1 favorite]


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