Is this reasonable or am I being strung along?
July 29, 2013 6:25 AM Subscribe
A month ago I made a mistake and slept with a good friend who is in a relationship. He wants to end it with her and be with me, but says he has certain obligations/plans with her that means he can't for probably another month. How reasonable is this?
I won't make excuses, I can't defend what I did, but I guess I can explain it. We've had feelings for each other for a long time. We went out for a drink that turned into many more. Things were said, feelings were shared, and we ended up sleeping together. We both agreed nothing could happen again until he's single and it hasn't.
He's been with his girlfriend for over a year. They've broken up twice before in that time and have been back together for about 3 months. He's had feelings for me for a long time, but didn't think they were reciprocated on my part and so he gave it another go with her even though his heart wasn't in it.
They have multiple trips planned throughout the summer with several mutual friends and he couldn't just mess up everyone's plans by suddenly breaking up with her. About a week ago they had a big talk about how he didn't see them together long term, he didn't have the same depth of feelings she did and he couldn't give her what she wanted. Despite this she didn't want to cancel their plans for the rest of the summer.
He really doesn't want to hurt her and also doesn't want me to be seen as the reason they broke up. Which I understand. I think telling her would just be cruel, especially since the relationship was already on the rocks. At the same time I don't like having my life on hold. He has told me over and over that he only wants to be with me and hasn't felt this strongly about anyone in years, but I still worry that I am being put on the backburner so to speak and that a month is enough time to break up with someone. They don't live together. They don't have kids. Break ups are hard I know that, but I feel like things won't be markedly different a month from now.
I also have this rather perhaps irrational notion that if he doesn't feel strongly enough to mess up his vacation plans for me this relationship has no hope anyway. But then again it wasn't just his plans, it was several other people's as well.
I hate how this has started between us and I'm ashamed of myself for contributing to the demise of a relationship. However, I haven't felt this way about anyone for years and years and years. We have very similar long term goals (where we want to live, kids, politics, etc), very strong chemistry and regularly talk for hours. I should also add he's never lied to me even though he could have very easily.
I've already broken things off once, he was extremely upset and we ended up talking and now things have returned to the status quo. He seems to want things to just come to a natural end with the girlfriend, which I don't think is realistic. He seems to think it'll be over within the month, but I think the chances of a clean mutual break up is unlikely given that she wanted to continue after he told her he didn't love her.
I know myself well enough to know I can't just put my feelings on hold. Is what he's asking of me reasonable? Is me expecting him to have ended it by now fair? Am I just signing up for a world of pain by continuing to wait? My feelings for him are really clouding my ability to objectively look at the situation.
I won't make excuses, I can't defend what I did, but I guess I can explain it. We've had feelings for each other for a long time. We went out for a drink that turned into many more. Things were said, feelings were shared, and we ended up sleeping together. We both agreed nothing could happen again until he's single and it hasn't.
He's been with his girlfriend for over a year. They've broken up twice before in that time and have been back together for about 3 months. He's had feelings for me for a long time, but didn't think they were reciprocated on my part and so he gave it another go with her even though his heart wasn't in it.
They have multiple trips planned throughout the summer with several mutual friends and he couldn't just mess up everyone's plans by suddenly breaking up with her. About a week ago they had a big talk about how he didn't see them together long term, he didn't have the same depth of feelings she did and he couldn't give her what she wanted. Despite this she didn't want to cancel their plans for the rest of the summer.
He really doesn't want to hurt her and also doesn't want me to be seen as the reason they broke up. Which I understand. I think telling her would just be cruel, especially since the relationship was already on the rocks. At the same time I don't like having my life on hold. He has told me over and over that he only wants to be with me and hasn't felt this strongly about anyone in years, but I still worry that I am being put on the backburner so to speak and that a month is enough time to break up with someone. They don't live together. They don't have kids. Break ups are hard I know that, but I feel like things won't be markedly different a month from now.
I also have this rather perhaps irrational notion that if he doesn't feel strongly enough to mess up his vacation plans for me this relationship has no hope anyway. But then again it wasn't just his plans, it was several other people's as well.
I hate how this has started between us and I'm ashamed of myself for contributing to the demise of a relationship. However, I haven't felt this way about anyone for years and years and years. We have very similar long term goals (where we want to live, kids, politics, etc), very strong chemistry and regularly talk for hours. I should also add he's never lied to me even though he could have very easily.
I've already broken things off once, he was extremely upset and we ended up talking and now things have returned to the status quo. He seems to want things to just come to a natural end with the girlfriend, which I don't think is realistic. He seems to think it'll be over within the month, but I think the chances of a clean mutual break up is unlikely given that she wanted to continue after he told her he didn't love her.
I know myself well enough to know I can't just put my feelings on hold. Is what he's asking of me reasonable? Is me expecting him to have ended it by now fair? Am I just signing up for a world of pain by continuing to wait? My feelings for him are really clouding my ability to objectively look at the situation.
I also have this rather perhaps irrational notion that if he doesn't feel strongly enough to mess up his vacation plans for me this relationship has no hope anyway.
Or maybe he is giving his relationship another try. You don't know. IMHO, you would be better off not waiting around for someone who is already in a relationship.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:30 AM on July 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
Or maybe he is giving his relationship another try. You don't know. IMHO, you would be better off not waiting around for someone who is already in a relationship.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:30 AM on July 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
He will do what he has done to her to you in a heartbeat. Don't settle.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 6:31 AM on July 29, 2013 [28 favorites]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 6:31 AM on July 29, 2013 [28 favorites]
He should end it right now so that his girlfriend is free to find a decent guy. And you should not settle for a guy who blames vacation plans for not doing the right thing.
posted by headnsouth at 6:31 AM on July 29, 2013 [14 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 6:31 AM on July 29, 2013 [14 favorites]
How reasonable is this?
TL;DR. Nope, nope, nope. It is immature and cruel of him to have cheated on her. It is inappropriate for you to participate in further emotional and / or physical cheating. She probably has no clue that the "relationship is on the rocks" or that he told her he didn't love her.
He wants a relationship with a bit on the side. Right now, you're the bit on the side. If you play by his rules, later you can have a relationship with him while he's got a different bit on the side.
WALK.
posted by mibo at 6:33 AM on July 29, 2013 [10 favorites]
TL;DR. Nope, nope, nope. It is immature and cruel of him to have cheated on her. It is inappropriate for you to participate in further emotional and / or physical cheating. She probably has no clue that the "relationship is on the rocks" or that he told her he didn't love her.
He wants a relationship with a bit on the side. Right now, you're the bit on the side. If you play by his rules, later you can have a relationship with him while he's got a different bit on the side.
WALK.
posted by mibo at 6:33 AM on July 29, 2013 [10 favorites]
If you start feeling weird about a relationship at the beginning, it's usually best to get out right away, because those things don't tend to improve.
posted by xingcat at 6:33 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 6:33 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Is what he's asking of me reasonable? Is me expecting him to have ended it by now fair? Am I just signing up for a world of pain by continuing to wait?
My answers to this are no, yes and yes. Continuing to be in a relationship with someone you don't want to be in a relationship with because you have "travel plans" makes me think
1. it's not about the travel plans, this guy is either giving the relationship another go or he's too afraid to break up
2. he's stringing you along and has no intention of breaking up at all
I know that breakups are tough, but I think it's time for another "Well, call me when you're single" break up with this guy. It's possible, though exceedingly rare, that this thing with you and him was meant to be in some way. It's more likely that he's got a character flaw that means he thinks it's okay to string two women along at once that will not necessarily improve once he is in a relationship with you. I know it hurts a lot but I think you know that this is going nowhere good.
posted by jessamyn at 6:33 AM on July 29, 2013 [10 favorites]
My answers to this are no, yes and yes. Continuing to be in a relationship with someone you don't want to be in a relationship with because you have "travel plans" makes me think
1. it's not about the travel plans, this guy is either giving the relationship another go or he's too afraid to break up
2. he's stringing you along and has no intention of breaking up at all
I know that breakups are tough, but I think it's time for another "Well, call me when you're single" break up with this guy. It's possible, though exceedingly rare, that this thing with you and him was meant to be in some way. It's more likely that he's got a character flaw that means he thinks it's okay to string two women along at once that will not necessarily improve once he is in a relationship with you. I know it hurts a lot but I think you know that this is going nowhere good.
posted by jessamyn at 6:33 AM on July 29, 2013 [10 favorites]
Here's that thing, he's not waiting for you, is he? Don't wait for him. Go out, live your life. Date other people.
If you both find yourself single in a few months, you can give it a try.
Frankly, they can break up, be friendly and still go on vacation with their friends, if that's really what the issue is. You know that.
This isn't starting well, it probably won't end well. This guy is not available.
If he asks why you're not being celibate and waiting around for him to be kind and gentle to his girlfriend, with whom he's already had the break-up talk, simply say, "When you are single, we can date, until that happens, I'm not putting my live on hold. Have a wonderful time on your multiple vacations."
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:34 AM on July 29, 2013 [27 favorites]
If you both find yourself single in a few months, you can give it a try.
Frankly, they can break up, be friendly and still go on vacation with their friends, if that's really what the issue is. You know that.
This isn't starting well, it probably won't end well. This guy is not available.
If he asks why you're not being celibate and waiting around for him to be kind and gentle to his girlfriend, with whom he's already had the break-up talk, simply say, "When you are single, we can date, until that happens, I'm not putting my live on hold. Have a wonderful time on your multiple vacations."
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:34 AM on July 29, 2013 [27 favorites]
They have multiple trips planned throughout the summer with several mutual friends and he couldn't just mess up everyone's plans by suddenly breaking up with her.
When she plans a trip for the fall, is he going to say "No, I will have broken up with you before then?" Or is he going to drag this out for another season because it's easier?
I don't know, at best he sounds pretty timid and weak. Do you really want to be with a guy who has those characteristics?
posted by DestinationUnknown at 6:35 AM on July 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
When she plans a trip for the fall, is he going to say "No, I will have broken up with you before then?" Or is he going to drag this out for another season because it's easier?
I don't know, at best he sounds pretty timid and weak. Do you really want to be with a guy who has those characteristics?
posted by DestinationUnknown at 6:35 AM on July 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
I haven't been in this situation, but I've seen it from the outside a few times. From what I've seen, guys in his position keep postponing the breakup. The month becomes two months, which becomes three. Later this year, he could be telling you he can't breakup with her until after the holidays.
I would suggest that you move on with your life. If he is single, he should give you a call. Until then, keep some distance.
posted by Area Man at 6:35 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
I would suggest that you move on with your life. If he is single, he should give you a call. Until then, keep some distance.
posted by Area Man at 6:35 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
If he wanted to end it, he would. She could go on the trip with the others -- it's not that big a deal.
If he wanted to be in a relationship with you, he would be. You can do better than this chump.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:35 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
If he wanted to be in a relationship with you, he would be. You can do better than this chump.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:35 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
They have multiple trips planned throughout the summer with several mutual friends and he couldn't just mess up everyone's plans by suddenly breaking up with her. About a week ago they had a big talk about how he didn't see them together long term, he didn't have the same depth of feelings she did and he couldn't give her what she wanted. Despite this she didn't want to cancel their plans for the rest of the summer.
This is the first time I have ever literally out-loud said, LOL WUT to part of an AskMe post.
Please don't get with someone who'd rather go on vacation than do the right thing. And definitely, good Lord, don't get involved with the sure-to-be-ridiculous drama involved in this couple breaking up where they've had this conversation and decided to still go on MULTIPLE TRIPS together.
posted by nakedmolerats at 6:35 AM on July 29, 2013 [19 favorites]
This is the first time I have ever literally out-loud said, LOL WUT to part of an AskMe post.
Please don't get with someone who'd rather go on vacation than do the right thing. And definitely, good Lord, don't get involved with the sure-to-be-ridiculous drama involved in this couple breaking up where they've had this conversation and decided to still go on MULTIPLE TRIPS together.
posted by nakedmolerats at 6:35 AM on July 29, 2013 [19 favorites]
Oh, one other thing: his account of their big talk may not be accurate.
posted by Area Man at 6:36 AM on July 29, 2013 [20 favorites]
posted by Area Man at 6:36 AM on July 29, 2013 [20 favorites]
I also have this rather perhaps irrational notion that if he doesn't feel strongly enough to mess up his vacation plans for me this relationship has no hope anyway.
But, that's the most rational notion you've expressed here.
posted by kmennie at 6:38 AM on July 29, 2013 [36 favorites]
But, that's the most rational notion you've expressed here.
posted by kmennie at 6:38 AM on July 29, 2013 [36 favorites]
(I'm trying to figure out what could honestly be a trip where he would "mess up everyone's plans" by simply bowing out and eating the cost. Are they doing a bobsled expedition that requires exactly 4 people? A doubles tennis camp? Chess retreat?)
posted by nakedmolerats at 6:38 AM on July 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 6:38 AM on July 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
He really doesn't want to hurt her
He is going to hurt her if he breaks up with her. There is no way around that.
and also doesn't want me to be seen as the reason they broke up.
He is the reason they are breaking up, not you. He wasn't into it. He needs to own that.
I also have this rather perhaps irrational notion that if he doesn't feel strongly enough to mess up his vacation plans for me this relationship has no hope anyway.
It's not irrational. Listen to this instinct.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:39 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
He is going to hurt her if he breaks up with her. There is no way around that.
and also doesn't want me to be seen as the reason they broke up.
He is the reason they are breaking up, not you. He wasn't into it. He needs to own that.
I also have this rather perhaps irrational notion that if he doesn't feel strongly enough to mess up his vacation plans for me this relationship has no hope anyway.
It's not irrational. Listen to this instinct.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:39 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Just worth noting that is entirely possible for someone to be a great friend, but a fucking terrible boyfriend.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:41 AM on July 29, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:41 AM on July 29, 2013 [11 favorites]
They have multiple trips planned throughout the summer with several mutual friends and he couldn't just mess up everyone's plans by suddenly breaking up with her.
This is nonsense. What kind of trip can't carry on without him? On preview: what nakedmolerats said.
Look, canceling might disappoint the girlfriend if it's some type of couple-centric thing. And maybe he and/or she will lose money on reservations (if she decides to cancel rather than go without him). But... that's it. The other friends involved won't have their plans messed up.
It's going to suck for her no matter what. The gracious thing to do would be to break up with her now, bow out of the trip, and let his ex spend the rest of her summer traveling with friends and getting over the break-up. That's the honest, honorable thing to do. What he's proposing is neither honest, nor honorable, and doesn't give any indication that he'd treat you any better than he's treating her.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:46 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
This is nonsense. What kind of trip can't carry on without him? On preview: what nakedmolerats said.
Look, canceling might disappoint the girlfriend if it's some type of couple-centric thing. And maybe he and/or she will lose money on reservations (if she decides to cancel rather than go without him). But... that's it. The other friends involved won't have their plans messed up.
It's going to suck for her no matter what. The gracious thing to do would be to break up with her now, bow out of the trip, and let his ex spend the rest of her summer traveling with friends and getting over the break-up. That's the honest, honorable thing to do. What he's proposing is neither honest, nor honorable, and doesn't give any indication that he'd treat you any better than he's treating her.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:46 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Nope nope nope. Two of the most universally accepted dating rules are that you don't attempt to start a new relationship while you're still in the old one, and you break up with someone as soon as you're 100% sure you want to break up, no waiting until the time is right.
The dude is drama. If you want to give this an honest shot, go no contact (or at least minimal, non-flirtatious contact) for several months. If he breaks up with his girlfriend and stays broken up, maybe then. Maybe.
But he sounds like the kind of person who keeps two partners on the line, and bounces from one to the other as soon as things get stale. This is a good strategy for crops and running shoes, and an awful one for relationships.
You already know he's being hinky, that you deserve better, and that this is unlikely to end well. The hard part is holding yourself to that in the face of temptation. Might not hurt to put some new, healthy fun in your life until this passes - take an interesting class or plan a trip. Treat yourself well.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:48 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
The dude is drama. If you want to give this an honest shot, go no contact (or at least minimal, non-flirtatious contact) for several months. If he breaks up with his girlfriend and stays broken up, maybe then. Maybe.
But he sounds like the kind of person who keeps two partners on the line, and bounces from one to the other as soon as things get stale. This is a good strategy for crops and running shoes, and an awful one for relationships.
You already know he's being hinky, that you deserve better, and that this is unlikely to end well. The hard part is holding yourself to that in the face of temptation. Might not hurt to put some new, healthy fun in your life until this passes - take an interesting class or plan a trip. Treat yourself well.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:48 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm going to go against the crowd here and say that I don't think this guy's position is a case of total and pure assholery. There never is a good time to break up with someone, but there certainly are better and worse times, and just before a long-planned trip is probably one of the worst times, especially if there is a good deal of financial investment and involvement of friends and family. How humiliating for her to have to go on such a trip alone and explain to all her friends and family that she was just dumped, etc.? This all depends of course on the person (some people might find that the best way to be dumped, because their friends/family are the kind that can find ways to be fun and convivial in painful situations, but I would feel like a widower being asked to the dance on the day of the funeral).
There's really no way for me to say whether or not this is a case where it makes best sense for him to wait to break up, and usually I'd say this is more true when people have been together for a lot longer (say 5+ years) and have a lot more shared commitments such that the breakup would cause a complete revolution in one's daily life and habits. But even still, what he's doing might, in truth, be coming from a place of love and compassion. Things are never so simple "if he really loves you he'll do x right now". Life is all fuzzy-wuzzy, and love even more so.
posted by dis_integration at 6:49 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
There's really no way for me to say whether or not this is a case where it makes best sense for him to wait to break up, and usually I'd say this is more true when people have been together for a lot longer (say 5+ years) and have a lot more shared commitments such that the breakup would cause a complete revolution in one's daily life and habits. But even still, what he's doing might, in truth, be coming from a place of love and compassion. Things are never so simple "if he really loves you he'll do x right now". Life is all fuzzy-wuzzy, and love even more so.
posted by dis_integration at 6:49 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
It's trite, but it's true: somebody who cheats with you will cheat on you.
posted by mhoye at 6:54 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 6:54 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
It's only a month -- how much life is there to put on hold during that time? Do whatever you were going to do without him, don't see him or talk to him, and when he comes back, see what happens.
Although I think it is quite likely that what will happen when he comes back is that he is either still with her, or jumps over to you and that is no blessing because he is so immature and devious.
posted by 3491again at 6:56 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Although I think it is quite likely that what will happen when he comes back is that he is either still with her, or jumps over to you and that is no blessing because he is so immature and devious.
posted by 3491again at 6:56 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I actually think this is a completely cut-and-dried case of 'This is not how decent men act'.
At the very best, he's weak. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in weak men. They don't make good partners.
If he was into you, AND was a person of solid character and integrity, he would not use other people's vacation plans as an excuse for making you wait around. That really is rather lame.
posted by Salamander at 6:57 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
At the very best, he's weak. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in weak men. They don't make good partners.
If he was into you, AND was a person of solid character and integrity, he would not use other people's vacation plans as an excuse for making you wait around. That really is rather lame.
posted by Salamander at 6:57 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
Even if this is one-in-a-million case where his heart is in the right place, be head is not so the situation is still all kinds of wrong. Walk away. That doesn't mean nothing will happen later, when he's single but it will mean you don't do something foolish now.
My advice is to avoid him as much as possible. His current behavior isn't all that friendly.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:58 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
My advice is to avoid him as much as possible. His current behavior isn't all that friendly.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:58 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've already broken things off once, he was extremely upset and we ended up talking and now things have returned to the status quo.
As it stands, he has absolutely no reason to disrupt the status quo. He has his girlfriend, he has his vacations, he has you. He has everything -- why would he change any of that?
Step back from him, circle that one-month date in your calendar, and see where things are then. You can reassess then, but I suspect there won't be anything to reassess.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:07 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
As it stands, he has absolutely no reason to disrupt the status quo. He has his girlfriend, he has his vacations, he has you. He has everything -- why would he change any of that?
Step back from him, circle that one-month date in your calendar, and see where things are then. You can reassess then, but I suspect there won't be anything to reassess.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:07 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
and so he have it another go with her even though his heart wasn't in it
If he'll do this to her, he'll do it to you, too.
And if he'll cheat on her, he'll cheat on you.
And if he's the kind of guy who breaks up and gets back together repeatedly, then at least 50% of all of their drama is him too; he's a willing participant. Which means his relationship with you will be drama filled too.
Oh wait, it already is! You've already broken it off once.
How likely is it that their relationship breakups could have been due to his cheating?
I'm not saying don't get involved with this guy. But know what you're getting yourself into.
As to whether he's stringing you along... it's hard to say. But none of the other nreakups "took", and that's really something he should be able to do on his own initiative if he really wants to.
posted by windykites at 7:08 AM on July 29, 2013
If he'll do this to her, he'll do it to you, too.
And if he'll cheat on her, he'll cheat on you.
And if he's the kind of guy who breaks up and gets back together repeatedly, then at least 50% of all of their drama is him too; he's a willing participant. Which means his relationship with you will be drama filled too.
Oh wait, it already is! You've already broken it off once.
How likely is it that their relationship breakups could have been due to his cheating?
I'm not saying don't get involved with this guy. But know what you're getting yourself into.
As to whether he's stringing you along... it's hard to say. But none of the other nreakups "took", and that's really something he should be able to do on his own initiative if he really wants to.
posted by windykites at 7:08 AM on July 29, 2013
Let's say that you are totally right and this guy cheating on his girlfriend, with you, is a one-time slip of an otherwise totally stand-up dude.
He's still not boyfriend material because he's not acting like an adult.
He's not being direct and honest about what he wants -- which is fine, sometimes we don't know what we want -- but he's doing so in a way that is designed to waste two other people's time while he figures it out. And that's shitty and selfish of him. That does not speak well of his ability to be direct and honest with you when you need him to. It does not speak well of his strength of character.
This is a guy who is not acting with integrity, and he's putting the costs of that lack of integrity on you and (even more so) on his girlfriend, two people he supposedly cares about.
Move on. You deserve better.
posted by gauche at 7:10 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
He's still not boyfriend material because he's not acting like an adult.
He's not being direct and honest about what he wants -- which is fine, sometimes we don't know what we want -- but he's doing so in a way that is designed to waste two other people's time while he figures it out. And that's shitty and selfish of him. That does not speak well of his ability to be direct and honest with you when you need him to. It does not speak well of his strength of character.
This is a guy who is not acting with integrity, and he's putting the costs of that lack of integrity on you and (even more so) on his girlfriend, two people he supposedly cares about.
Move on. You deserve better.
posted by gauche at 7:10 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Is what he's asking of me reasonable?
Totally and absolutely. "I love you and want to be with you, but my current girlfriend and I had plans, see? Just give us a month to go on these trips and sleep in the same bed and then it's be and you baby!"
That's bullshit. The mistake of cheating on her with you could be understood if he immediatley told her afterwards and officially broke up with her. He hasn't. He's using goddamn vacation plans as an excuse
Is me expecting him to have ended it by now fair?
It is completely and totally unfair. It's the right thing to do and should be done toot sweet
Am I just signing up for a world of pain by continuing to wait?
Yes, because he's still in relationship with her. If he doesn't have the guts to end it, after saying he really wants to, then you are actively volunteering for at least a month of heart ache. Keep in mind, he's lying to her as he continues that relationship. Is that the kind of person that anyone wants to be with?
My feelings for him are really clouding my ability to objectively look at the situation
Honestly, I'd say cut off all contact and tell him when he's made up his damn mind, he knows where to find you. But should you have to tell him that? Shouldn't he be acting like a goddamn adult and be honest with her? It doesn't matter if he loves you more and wants to be with you. His current commitment is to her and he needs to end that before going further with you.
His actions here should seriously cause you to question who he is and whether you two should be in relationship.
You guys have started out on the wrong foot. Ok, shit happens, but you both need to work on fixing that wrong foot and doing things in a healthy way that you can both look back on fondly. As it stands now, when people ask "How did you two get together" the answer is "Oh we had feelings for each for a while, then we slept together while he was in another relationship and then held off officially getting together so those two could go on various vacations." That's not the sort of story people giggle over and say "ahhh" as you two lovingly smile at each other.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:14 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Totally and absolutely. "I love you and want to be with you, but my current girlfriend and I had plans, see? Just give us a month to go on these trips and sleep in the same bed and then it's be and you baby!"
That's bullshit. The mistake of cheating on her with you could be understood if he immediatley told her afterwards and officially broke up with her. He hasn't. He's using goddamn vacation plans as an excuse
Is me expecting him to have ended it by now fair?
It is completely and totally unfair. It's the right thing to do and should be done toot sweet
Am I just signing up for a world of pain by continuing to wait?
Yes, because he's still in relationship with her. If he doesn't have the guts to end it, after saying he really wants to, then you are actively volunteering for at least a month of heart ache. Keep in mind, he's lying to her as he continues that relationship. Is that the kind of person that anyone wants to be with?
My feelings for him are really clouding my ability to objectively look at the situation
Honestly, I'd say cut off all contact and tell him when he's made up his damn mind, he knows where to find you. But should you have to tell him that? Shouldn't he be acting like a goddamn adult and be honest with her? It doesn't matter if he loves you more and wants to be with you. His current commitment is to her and he needs to end that before going further with you.
His actions here should seriously cause you to question who he is and whether you two should be in relationship.
You guys have started out on the wrong foot. Ok, shit happens, but you both need to work on fixing that wrong foot and doing things in a healthy way that you can both look back on fondly. As it stands now, when people ask "How did you two get together" the answer is "Oh we had feelings for each for a while, then we slept together while he was in another relationship and then held off officially getting together so those two could go on various vacations." That's not the sort of story people giggle over and say "ahhh" as you two lovingly smile at each other.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:14 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
How humiliating for her to have to go on such a trip alone and explain to all her friends and family that she was just dumped, etc.?
I don't disagree with this exactly, but how humiliating for her to be going on these couple-y trips with a guy who she will soon find out was only faking it all, because he really wants someone else and either doesn't think she can handle being dumped or cares more about money/appearances. If he dumps her and she goes alone, she won't look bad, he will.
I don't even necessarily think he would definitely cheat on you if he'd cheat with you, I just think, what do his actions say about the type of person he is? I don't think I could respect a guy who'd act like that.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 7:20 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
I don't disagree with this exactly, but how humiliating for her to be going on these couple-y trips with a guy who she will soon find out was only faking it all, because he really wants someone else and either doesn't think she can handle being dumped or cares more about money/appearances. If he dumps her and she goes alone, she won't look bad, he will.
I don't even necessarily think he would definitely cheat on you if he'd cheat with you, I just think, what do his actions say about the type of person he is? I don't think I could respect a guy who'd act like that.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 7:20 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
I wonder if the emotion clouding your mind is fear, as in fear of what you know will happen when you put your foot down.
I bet you know he'll be a lost cause and you won't get to feel giddy and hopeful and cared for anymore.
I'm sorry. Being lonely sucks and believing that you have found a love is really powerful and hard to let go of. This guy isn't your only chance. He's the mirage, not the oasis. The mirage makes you feel better, but the more time you spend chasing it, the less time you'll have to find the oasis.
Step away from the mirage. You can do it.
posted by windykites at 7:25 AM on July 29, 2013 [15 favorites]
I bet you know he'll be a lost cause and you won't get to feel giddy and hopeful and cared for anymore.
I'm sorry. Being lonely sucks and believing that you have found a love is really powerful and hard to let go of. This guy isn't your only chance. He's the mirage, not the oasis. The mirage makes you feel better, but the more time you spend chasing it, the less time you'll have to find the oasis.
Step away from the mirage. You can do it.
posted by windykites at 7:25 AM on July 29, 2013 [15 favorites]
I get the strong feelings about this, but here is another dissenting voice.
Sometimes people meet the right person at the wrong time. Now, of course the right thing to do is to end one relationship before starting another. But humans have a great knack for doing the wrong thing. The motivation is not always because they are bad people.
I can empathise with him trying to hurt her as little as possible, and not give her the baggage of being left for someone else, rather than because things weren't working out between them. Its a hard thing to understand when viewing it from the outside, but while people are dismissing him for being selfish, it is possible he is suffering too with what he is going to have to do to her, and he might genuinely be trying to minimise her upset. I also don't subscribe to the 'once a cheater, always a cheater' school of thought. None of us know what's in our future, and I don't think behaving a certain way means you are doomed to always act that way. If so, why bother with addictions therapy?
What I would say is that if he has given you a specific reason and deadline for breaking up with her, ie after the vacation, then holding him to that is the important thing. Because once the vacation comes and goes, something else will be on the horizon, and then something else... So while so far I don't think he is definitely stringing you along, and his intentions may well be totally genuine (even if he's not handling it perfectly), not holding him to this deadline might lead things down a long road. So personally I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens when they return. If he puts it off again, I'd consider no contact until he is single. If he does leave her and you are both able to be together, I hope that you are both able to learn from this situation and keep communication paramount between you. Good luck.
posted by outoftime at 7:26 AM on July 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
Sometimes people meet the right person at the wrong time. Now, of course the right thing to do is to end one relationship before starting another. But humans have a great knack for doing the wrong thing. The motivation is not always because they are bad people.
I can empathise with him trying to hurt her as little as possible, and not give her the baggage of being left for someone else, rather than because things weren't working out between them. Its a hard thing to understand when viewing it from the outside, but while people are dismissing him for being selfish, it is possible he is suffering too with what he is going to have to do to her, and he might genuinely be trying to minimise her upset. I also don't subscribe to the 'once a cheater, always a cheater' school of thought. None of us know what's in our future, and I don't think behaving a certain way means you are doomed to always act that way. If so, why bother with addictions therapy?
What I would say is that if he has given you a specific reason and deadline for breaking up with her, ie after the vacation, then holding him to that is the important thing. Because once the vacation comes and goes, something else will be on the horizon, and then something else... So while so far I don't think he is definitely stringing you along, and his intentions may well be totally genuine (even if he's not handling it perfectly), not holding him to this deadline might lead things down a long road. So personally I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens when they return. If he puts it off again, I'd consider no contact until he is single. If he does leave her and you are both able to be together, I hope that you are both able to learn from this situation and keep communication paramount between you. Good luck.
posted by outoftime at 7:26 AM on July 29, 2013 [8 favorites]
I was the girlfriend in this situation once, so maybe I am a little biased, but dude. This is not a stand-up guy. A mature, reasonable adult would be honest with both of you. You already know he is wasting your time, but he is totally wasting his girlfriend's time as well.
- Signed, someone who flushed months down the drain waiting for him to make up his damn mind,
posted by chainsofreedom at 7:31 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
- Signed, someone who flushed months down the drain waiting for him to make up his damn mind,
posted by chainsofreedom at 7:31 AM on July 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Is what he's asking of me reasonable?
No.
The human brain is really good at finding ways to justify getting what it wants. He has done the necessary mental gymnastics to allow himself to be weasely and sneaky and decide that this is all okay and it's a good plan, because of the brain chemicals involved. Because of those same chemicals, you are uncertain whether or not it's a good plan instead of seeing clearly that it is not.
Is me expecting him to have ended it by now fair?
Yes.
There is no right time to dump someone. There will always be a reason not to do it today, or tomorrow, or this week. Right now, they have vacations planned. After the vacations, it will be something else.
He may not want to hurt her, but if he were looking at that from a reasonable angle, he'd realize that cheating on her and then staying long after he wants to leave carries much more hurt with it than just putting a merciful end to things.
Am I just signing up for a world of pain by continuing to wait?
Yes.
I don't necessarily think that it's true that he will cheat on you if he cheated on her (but I also don't think it's necessarily untrue, either), but it certainly is true that if this does go the way you're wanting, the guy you'll be dating is the guy his girlfriend is dating now. He will handle situations with the same conflict-solving skills with which he's handling this one.
The aforementioned brain chemicals will make it really unlikely that this will happen, but in your situation I would just walk away, or at the very least start giving this guy a lot of space.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:32 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
No.
The human brain is really good at finding ways to justify getting what it wants. He has done the necessary mental gymnastics to allow himself to be weasely and sneaky and decide that this is all okay and it's a good plan, because of the brain chemicals involved. Because of those same chemicals, you are uncertain whether or not it's a good plan instead of seeing clearly that it is not.
Is me expecting him to have ended it by now fair?
Yes.
There is no right time to dump someone. There will always be a reason not to do it today, or tomorrow, or this week. Right now, they have vacations planned. After the vacations, it will be something else.
He may not want to hurt her, but if he were looking at that from a reasonable angle, he'd realize that cheating on her and then staying long after he wants to leave carries much more hurt with it than just putting a merciful end to things.
Am I just signing up for a world of pain by continuing to wait?
Yes.
I don't necessarily think that it's true that he will cheat on you if he cheated on her (but I also don't think it's necessarily untrue, either), but it certainly is true that if this does go the way you're wanting, the guy you'll be dating is the guy his girlfriend is dating now. He will handle situations with the same conflict-solving skills with which he's handling this one.
The aforementioned brain chemicals will make it really unlikely that this will happen, but in your situation I would just walk away, or at the very least start giving this guy a lot of space.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:32 AM on July 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
Do you think she would want to go on the vacation with him if she knew the whole story? I don't think the guy is necessarily an asshole--he's not the first person to think it would be kinder to break up after the vacation/birthday/holidays. But I think it's actually not kinder, it's cruel. She'll be spending time with him, sleeping with him, thinking that he cares about her, that they're in a relationship together. Even if he sticks to his word and dumps her immediately after the vacation, if she ever finds out what was really going on she'll probably feel like a fool and like he's a liar. At best, he's thoughtlessly cruel and willing to lie about his feelings to maintain a relationship that's actually over.
posted by Mavri at 7:40 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Mavri at 7:40 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have been in this EXACT position.
The feelings are strong, but I promise you a million gillion dollars none of what he's told you or her is true. None of it.
- Yes, of course he can cancel these trips, that's bullshit.
- The Talk they had did not communicate what he's lead you to believe. She's still fully his girlfriend.
- You're right. In a month there will be a new excuse as to why they can not split. (My guess? She'll have lost her job, or her dog will have gotten sick, y'know, the excuse you'll get is he just can't kick her when she's down type of thing.)
- Even if they do split, you'll find out later she leaned on him for support after she lost her job/her dog died/etc.,/etc., and -OOPS!!- they're getting back together.
- Even if they do split, he'll repeat this drama a few months or a year from now with you in the girlfriend role, and the new flame will be his co-worker or some other friend or acquaintance.
I know your feelings are strong. He seems to feel strongly about you, but truly, he only feels strongly about dramaz. He doesn't see her or you as a real person, he doesn't even understand why what he's doing is so utterly wrong and entirely Fucked. Up.
I can't urge you enough to go no contact with this guy, block him from social media and drop him from your social circle. His logic is selfish, faulty, and only benefits him, not her or you.
I'm happy to discuss this with you over Memail. I'm disappointed members who are usually pretty wise have encouraged you to give the benefit of the doubt here (or maybe they think you just have to find out for yourself what a Bad Idea this is, because some stuff you have to go through on your own? I can see that.)
Anywho, you're right. The waiting for him to break up with her is a neon warning sign, as is the fact that once already he's talked you out of going no contact with him. Also a giant can of "Oh Hell's NO!" is his interpretation regarding The Talk he supposedly had with his girlfriend. I *GUARAN-FUCKING-TEE* that whatever he did or did not say to her, all he accomplished with that conversation was to play on her insecurities and make her that much more determined to keep him.
Take a pass on this Life Lesson. You don't need to get hurt to figure this one out.
This one is drama, the feelings are powerful and compelling, but this is not Love. This is Drama, but it is not Love.
ProTip: Love would not have slept with you while dating another.
Love would never have kept dating someone they are only lukewarm about, but let's say Love was dating someone else when you sparked with each other. What would Love have done?
Love would have stopped, gone home, and broken up with his current girlfriend the very next day.
You know this is True. You know from his choices and actions that this guy is Drama, and 100% not Love.
Don't pursue Drama. Shut it out of your life. Otherwise.... Pain and Sorrow. Great Sex, sure! But also, Pain and Sorrow.
Plus you'll be helping him hurt and take advantage of both her and yourself. This will cripple your self respect, eventually. You'll never really get over it because it's a shitty thing to participate in.
I hope this all helps you do the right thing for yourself. These ingredients won't ever add up to relationship awesomeness, and you should wise up and run while you still can.
Best of luck to you.
posted by jbenben at 7:42 AM on July 29, 2013 [15 favorites]
The feelings are strong, but I promise you a million gillion dollars none of what he's told you or her is true. None of it.
- Yes, of course he can cancel these trips, that's bullshit.
- The Talk they had did not communicate what he's lead you to believe. She's still fully his girlfriend.
- You're right. In a month there will be a new excuse as to why they can not split. (My guess? She'll have lost her job, or her dog will have gotten sick, y'know, the excuse you'll get is he just can't kick her when she's down type of thing.)
- Even if they do split, you'll find out later she leaned on him for support after she lost her job/her dog died/etc.,/etc., and -OOPS!!- they're getting back together.
- Even if they do split, he'll repeat this drama a few months or a year from now with you in the girlfriend role, and the new flame will be his co-worker or some other friend or acquaintance.
I know your feelings are strong. He seems to feel strongly about you, but truly, he only feels strongly about dramaz. He doesn't see her or you as a real person, he doesn't even understand why what he's doing is so utterly wrong and entirely Fucked. Up.
I can't urge you enough to go no contact with this guy, block him from social media and drop him from your social circle. His logic is selfish, faulty, and only benefits him, not her or you.
I'm happy to discuss this with you over Memail. I'm disappointed members who are usually pretty wise have encouraged you to give the benefit of the doubt here (or maybe they think you just have to find out for yourself what a Bad Idea this is, because some stuff you have to go through on your own? I can see that.)
Anywho, you're right. The waiting for him to break up with her is a neon warning sign, as is the fact that once already he's talked you out of going no contact with him. Also a giant can of "Oh Hell's NO!" is his interpretation regarding The Talk he supposedly had with his girlfriend. I *GUARAN-FUCKING-TEE* that whatever he did or did not say to her, all he accomplished with that conversation was to play on her insecurities and make her that much more determined to keep him.
Take a pass on this Life Lesson. You don't need to get hurt to figure this one out.
This one is drama, the feelings are powerful and compelling, but this is not Love. This is Drama, but it is not Love.
ProTip: Love would not have slept with you while dating another.
Love would never have kept dating someone they are only lukewarm about, but let's say Love was dating someone else when you sparked with each other. What would Love have done?
Love would have stopped, gone home, and broken up with his current girlfriend the very next day.
You know this is True. You know from his choices and actions that this guy is Drama, and 100% not Love.
Don't pursue Drama. Shut it out of your life. Otherwise.... Pain and Sorrow. Great Sex, sure! But also, Pain and Sorrow.
Plus you'll be helping him hurt and take advantage of both her and yourself. This will cripple your self respect, eventually. You'll never really get over it because it's a shitty thing to participate in.
I hope this all helps you do the right thing for yourself. These ingredients won't ever add up to relationship awesomeness, and you should wise up and run while you still can.
Best of luck to you.
posted by jbenben at 7:42 AM on July 29, 2013 [15 favorites]
Think of it this way: he treats his current girlfriend like shit, but doesn't have the guts to break up with her.
He's had feelings for me for a long time, but didn't think they were reciprocated on my part and so he gave it another go with her even though his heart wasn't in it
He seems to think it'll be over within the month, but I think the chances of a clean mutual break up is unlikely given that she wanted to continue after he told her he didn't love her.
Telling her he's cheating on her would be cruel. But you know what else is cruel? Continuing to date your girlfriend because you think the woman you're pining after on the side doesn't have feelings for you.
If he was a stand-up guy, he would end a relationship by saying something like "girlfriend, you are great but this isn't working out and I think it would be best if we broke up." Telling a woman you don't love her in an attempt to end a relationship that you don't have the guts to end is how a selfish coward acts.
He's not looking out for his girlfriend, or for you, he's looking out for himself.
posted by inertia at 7:48 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
He's had feelings for me for a long time, but didn't think they were reciprocated on my part and so he gave it another go with her even though his heart wasn't in it
He seems to think it'll be over within the month, but I think the chances of a clean mutual break up is unlikely given that she wanted to continue after he told her he didn't love her.
Telling her he's cheating on her would be cruel. But you know what else is cruel? Continuing to date your girlfriend because you think the woman you're pining after on the side doesn't have feelings for you.
If he was a stand-up guy, he would end a relationship by saying something like "girlfriend, you are great but this isn't working out and I think it would be best if we broke up." Telling a woman you don't love her in an attempt to end a relationship that you don't have the guts to end is how a selfish coward acts.
He's not looking out for his girlfriend, or for you, he's looking out for himself.
posted by inertia at 7:48 AM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
I should also add he's never lied to me even though he could have very easily.
He is lying to you AND lying to his girlfriend. He is a liar. He will always be a liar. You're not going to come out ahead on this deal. Just dump the guy, he is a loser. And try to figure out why you're attracted to unavailable men.
posted by empath at 8:05 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
He is lying to you AND lying to his girlfriend. He is a liar. He will always be a liar. You're not going to come out ahead on this deal. Just dump the guy, he is a loser. And try to figure out why you're attracted to unavailable men.
posted by empath at 8:05 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Oh, and I've (very) recently been taken advantage of by a guy who was keeping his options open. I 100% guarantee that he is not telling either of you the whole truth. And yeah, 'my' (*snort*) guy did it because he 'didnt want to hurt anyone', either.
It hurt like having your front teeth kicked in.
posted by Salamander at 8:09 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
It hurt like having your front teeth kicked in.
posted by Salamander at 8:09 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
One further thought, regarding this:
I've already broken things off once, he was extremely upset and we ended up talking and now things have returned to the status quo.
If it were truly a wake-up call for him--if your breaking things off really forced him to think about his relationship(s) and decide that he wanted to be with you, then his response would have been to get extremely upset, break up with his girlfriend, and then come to you and say, "I want to be with you. I've ended things with Jill. I'm sorry for not doing it sooner. Will you give me a chance?"
But that's not what he did. You tried to get some (reasonable, healthy) distance from him while he sorted out his current relationship. Instead of respecting that (big red flag!), he persuaded you to ignore your instincts.
When you have real chemistry with someone, it feels so good that you start to rationalize irrational things so that you can stay inside that good feeling. You want to believe that his getting "extremely upset" about your trying to break things off is further evidence of how right you are for each other. It's sexy when someone reciprocates your strong feelings. And I understand that you want to believe the best about this guy, not just because of the chemistry but also because of the prior friendship. However. In addition to the huge amounts of disregard and disrespect he's showing for his current girlfriend, he is also showing you that he prioritizes his desires over your preferences and boundaries. That's a pretty terrible basis for a relationship.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:38 AM on July 29, 2013 [9 favorites]
I've already broken things off once, he was extremely upset and we ended up talking and now things have returned to the status quo.
If it were truly a wake-up call for him--if your breaking things off really forced him to think about his relationship(s) and decide that he wanted to be with you, then his response would have been to get extremely upset, break up with his girlfriend, and then come to you and say, "I want to be with you. I've ended things with Jill. I'm sorry for not doing it sooner. Will you give me a chance?"
But that's not what he did. You tried to get some (reasonable, healthy) distance from him while he sorted out his current relationship. Instead of respecting that (big red flag!), he persuaded you to ignore your instincts.
When you have real chemistry with someone, it feels so good that you start to rationalize irrational things so that you can stay inside that good feeling. You want to believe that his getting "extremely upset" about your trying to break things off is further evidence of how right you are for each other. It's sexy when someone reciprocates your strong feelings. And I understand that you want to believe the best about this guy, not just because of the chemistry but also because of the prior friendship. However. In addition to the huge amounts of disregard and disrespect he's showing for his current girlfriend, he is also showing you that he prioritizes his desires over your preferences and boundaries. That's a pretty terrible basis for a relationship.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:38 AM on July 29, 2013 [9 favorites]
He's had feelings for me for a long time, but didn't think they were reciprocated on my part and so he gave it another go with her even though his heart wasn't in it.
this is not a stand up guy who is emotionally ready for a relationship. this is a guy who is looking for someone to fill the spot of girlfriend and will keep looking around and trading them until he realizes they are people, not sidekicks in his adventure through life. i'm not saying all relationships that start from infidelity are doomed (love is a messy thing sometimes), i'm just saying that either this guy isn't being honest about what's going on (telling you now that he's always loved you get him off the hook for being a cad) or he is being honest and the things he's saying are signs to be heeded. don't put yourself on hold for this dude.
posted by nadawi at 8:43 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
this is not a stand up guy who is emotionally ready for a relationship. this is a guy who is looking for someone to fill the spot of girlfriend and will keep looking around and trading them until he realizes they are people, not sidekicks in his adventure through life. i'm not saying all relationships that start from infidelity are doomed (love is a messy thing sometimes), i'm just saying that either this guy isn't being honest about what's going on (telling you now that he's always loved you get him off the hook for being a cad) or he is being honest and the things he's saying are signs to be heeded. don't put yourself on hold for this dude.
posted by nadawi at 8:43 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
There will always be another vacation, or Christmas, or his birthday, or that special Tuesday night... and it will always delay what otherwise seems inevitable.
The "I don't want to screw up other people's plans" line *sounds* good because it sounds selfless. But it isn't. If he wants to do the right thing, then he mans up, he breaks it off, he deals with the fall-out, and as a part of that, he pays his portion of the vacation EVEN IF HE DOESN'T GO.
Once you realize that there is an entirely reasonable path forward, then you start to realize that - at best! - he is selfishly trying to preserve his vacation plans in favor of dealing with things like an adult. At worst... well, I think everyone seems to have covered the worst case scenario pretty well.
Finally, OP, I think that you already seem to be experiencing a quite a bit of stress from this, and I would encourage you to speak to someone - a friend, trusted advisor, a therapist - in order to process your feelings of shame and embarrassment over the way this happened. It would be truly shameful if you carried this around with you going forward and allowed it to interfere with whatever healthy adult relationship may be out there waiting for you once you've moved beyond this.
posted by jph at 8:45 AM on July 29, 2013
The "I don't want to screw up other people's plans" line *sounds* good because it sounds selfless. But it isn't. If he wants to do the right thing, then he mans up, he breaks it off, he deals with the fall-out, and as a part of that, he pays his portion of the vacation EVEN IF HE DOESN'T GO.
Once you realize that there is an entirely reasonable path forward, then you start to realize that - at best! - he is selfishly trying to preserve his vacation plans in favor of dealing with things like an adult. At worst... well, I think everyone seems to have covered the worst case scenario pretty well.
Finally, OP, I think that you already seem to be experiencing a quite a bit of stress from this, and I would encourage you to speak to someone - a friend, trusted advisor, a therapist - in order to process your feelings of shame and embarrassment over the way this happened. It would be truly shameful if you carried this around with you going forward and allowed it to interfere with whatever healthy adult relationship may be out there waiting for you once you've moved beyond this.
posted by jph at 8:45 AM on July 29, 2013
Hi. I was in a similar situation to you. I don't say this to talk about morals or whatever, but to talk about the practicalities of how this actually plays out.
I was the girlfriend. The person he had cheated on me with was told that we weren't serious, that the relationship wasn't a big deal, that he was going to leave me.
In truth, our relationship had issues, but not actually emotional issues. This is often what goes on when people break up and get back together repeatedly - they love each other, but for whatever reason aren't right for each other. And he wibbled on breaking up with me, pretty much for months, because he still loved me and didn't want to hurt me. If I hadn't called him on it, I don't even know what would have happened.
But I'm not here to talk about me. I'm going to talk about how the woman he cheated on me with, who he dated after me, felt. I'm going to talk about her life. Because that is the life that most closely approaches what would be yours.
What she knew is that he dated her, but she was never able to be sure of him. He would get off the phone with her when I called. He would leave the house to take calls. He was always seeing his ex-girlfriends, with romanti-sexual encounters with them. Because he didn't want to hurt them, because he still loved them. He had a firm inability and unwillingness to break off those connections. She kept pressing for more commitment, and he didn't give it to her. She had two miserable years of paranoia and checking his phone and email before they finally broke up - for him to start seeing someone else.
Even if he eventually breaks up with his girlfriend, you are not going to have a good time with this guy. Don't do it.
posted by corb at 8:47 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
I was the girlfriend. The person he had cheated on me with was told that we weren't serious, that the relationship wasn't a big deal, that he was going to leave me.
In truth, our relationship had issues, but not actually emotional issues. This is often what goes on when people break up and get back together repeatedly - they love each other, but for whatever reason aren't right for each other. And he wibbled on breaking up with me, pretty much for months, because he still loved me and didn't want to hurt me. If I hadn't called him on it, I don't even know what would have happened.
But I'm not here to talk about me. I'm going to talk about how the woman he cheated on me with, who he dated after me, felt. I'm going to talk about her life. Because that is the life that most closely approaches what would be yours.
What she knew is that he dated her, but she was never able to be sure of him. He would get off the phone with her when I called. He would leave the house to take calls. He was always seeing his ex-girlfriends, with romanti-sexual encounters with them. Because he didn't want to hurt them, because he still loved them. He had a firm inability and unwillingness to break off those connections. She kept pressing for more commitment, and he didn't give it to her. She had two miserable years of paranoia and checking his phone and email before they finally broke up - for him to start seeing someone else.
Even if he eventually breaks up with his girlfriend, you are not going to have a good time with this guy. Don't do it.
posted by corb at 8:47 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
But I think it's actually not kinder, it's cruel. She'll be spending time with him, sleeping with him, thinking that he cares about her, that they're in a relationship together.
Also, this is a really important point. He is considering having sex with her without having told her he had sex with you. This is concerning from a health standard as well - not for you, I'm not saying you have anything, but he doesn't know that - from his standpoint, he's perfectly okay potentially risking his girlfriend's health rather than be the bad guy.
posted by corb at 8:51 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Also, this is a really important point. He is considering having sex with her without having told her he had sex with you. This is concerning from a health standard as well - not for you, I'm not saying you have anything, but he doesn't know that - from his standpoint, he's perfectly okay potentially risking his girlfriend's health rather than be the bad guy.
posted by corb at 8:51 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm gonna suggest that maybe he's lying about a bunch of things because he doesn't want to inflict the trauma on his girlfriend. Or at least that's what he's telling himself. Like, he's telling himself that after these vacations, she'll be better able to handle it.
Meanwhile, she is probably sensing him pulling away and could possibly going through headstands to try to stop him from leaving.
I think he's lying about the conversation because OMG who would say ha ha the best vacation is with the guy who is ditching my ass? yeah I don't think so.
Think of it this way: You'll be doing him a huge favor in giving him some space to hey maybe do the decent thing as opposed to what guilt/lust/whatever are causing him to do now, i.e., bullshit moves
You'll be doing her a favor if he breaks up with her quickly because she won't have to be dealing with some bullshit for months. If they stay, maybe your truest love was not maybe all bluebirds and shit.
You'll be doing yourself a favor because you will stop your involvement in such fuckery as the fuckery that is going on right now in this triangle of doom.
posted by angrycat at 10:59 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, she is probably sensing him pulling away and could possibly going through headstands to try to stop him from leaving.
I think he's lying about the conversation because OMG who would say ha ha the best vacation is with the guy who is ditching my ass? yeah I don't think so.
Think of it this way: You'll be doing him a huge favor in giving him some space to hey maybe do the decent thing as opposed to what guilt/lust/whatever are causing him to do now, i.e., bullshit moves
You'll be doing her a favor if he breaks up with her quickly because she won't have to be dealing with some bullshit for months. If they stay, maybe your truest love was not maybe all bluebirds and shit.
You'll be doing yourself a favor because you will stop your involvement in such fuckery as the fuckery that is going on right now in this triangle of doom.
posted by angrycat at 10:59 AM on July 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
also, watcha gonna do, as he wants to keep the relationship with you on the DL for some indeterminate point of time until his girlfriend is ready for him to stop lying to her (because you can't be the reason he is leaving his gf)? Hide in the bathroom if she comes over? That instinctively seem right to you?
posted by angrycat at 11:02 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 11:02 AM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
About a week ago they had a big talk about how he didn't see them together long term, he didn't have the same depth of feelings she did and he couldn't give her what she wanted. Despite this she didn't want to cancel their plans for the rest of the summer.
That seems like intentionally steering around the core issue: are they, currently, boyfriend and girlfriend? Or just friends who are going to take a trip together? Can you be open about dating the guy in the meantime, or would you have to "be discreet"? What would he say if you wanted to call the girlfriend and make sure dating him was ok with her?
It's not the trip. He'd have to be a pretty trustworthy dude, but I can see a partner taking a trip with an ex. But ONLY if it was unabmbiguous up front that it was not as a couple. AND that I had confidence that there would be no "moments of weakness" or "drunken mistakes."
If he's still IN the relationship, there is only one answer. Look me up when you're not, we'll get a drink or something. See you then.
posted by ctmf at 11:16 AM on July 29, 2013
That seems like intentionally steering around the core issue: are they, currently, boyfriend and girlfriend? Or just friends who are going to take a trip together? Can you be open about dating the guy in the meantime, or would you have to "be discreet"? What would he say if you wanted to call the girlfriend and make sure dating him was ok with her?
It's not the trip. He'd have to be a pretty trustworthy dude, but I can see a partner taking a trip with an ex. But ONLY if it was unabmbiguous up front that it was not as a couple. AND that I had confidence that there would be no "moments of weakness" or "drunken mistakes."
If he's still IN the relationship, there is only one answer. Look me up when you're not, we'll get a drink or something. See you then.
posted by ctmf at 11:16 AM on July 29, 2013
I've seen this before...
"he doesn't want to hurt her".
He already did when he cheated on her. He didn't want to cancel the multiple trips, because HE wants to go on them and have fun, while you wait, pining for him. Don't think he's not aware of this. Don't think he won't be laughing and completely enjoying himself on the trip. So much that if you could see pictures of him in action (cuddling with her), you wouldn't believe he has anything pressing on his mind. You probably wouldn't even recognize him. Because you don't really know him. He's probably an expert at wearing masks, maybe has been his whole life. What's his relationship history other that this? Do you know? Family life? Any infidelities between his parents? You might not know what you're getting into if you're not aware of his patterns.
He will be having a good time on vacay, no matter what he tells you. Sleeping with her, arm around her, lovey dovey, fun with all the friends.. all while he calls you and tells you how miserable he is there, and how much he misses you. How will you feel never knowing if what he's telling you is the truth or not?
Do what everyone has pretty much said, no contact. This guy has no integrity, and enjoys being the center of romantic drama. It's all about him. Your feelings and her's, really don't matter.
Live and enjoy your life & tell him until he's single, you're not going to engage with him. And if he does finally look you up when he is, tell him thanks but no thanks, I've moved on. Because you should, and you deserve so much better. So does his girlfriend.
posted by readygo at 11:57 AM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
"he doesn't want to hurt her".
He already did when he cheated on her. He didn't want to cancel the multiple trips, because HE wants to go on them and have fun, while you wait, pining for him. Don't think he's not aware of this. Don't think he won't be laughing and completely enjoying himself on the trip. So much that if you could see pictures of him in action (cuddling with her), you wouldn't believe he has anything pressing on his mind. You probably wouldn't even recognize him. Because you don't really know him. He's probably an expert at wearing masks, maybe has been his whole life. What's his relationship history other that this? Do you know? Family life? Any infidelities between his parents? You might not know what you're getting into if you're not aware of his patterns.
He will be having a good time on vacay, no matter what he tells you. Sleeping with her, arm around her, lovey dovey, fun with all the friends.. all while he calls you and tells you how miserable he is there, and how much he misses you. How will you feel never knowing if what he's telling you is the truth or not?
Do what everyone has pretty much said, no contact. This guy has no integrity, and enjoys being the center of romantic drama. It's all about him. Your feelings and her's, really don't matter.
Live and enjoy your life & tell him until he's single, you're not going to engage with him. And if he does finally look you up when he is, tell him thanks but no thanks, I've moved on. Because you should, and you deserve so much better. So does his girlfriend.
posted by readygo at 11:57 AM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
His gf deserves better. Not sure about you two but you both betrayed her trust. The least you both can do is to do the right thing and have him end his "relationship" with her.
posted by ladoo at 12:56 PM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by ladoo at 12:56 PM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Take a deep breath; let it out. These things can seem so overwhelming when you're in the heart of them, and now you've got strangers with strong opinions in the mix, too.
If your thing with this guy has a chance of turning out well, you have got to stand back and trust him to handle this situation as he said he would (or better). He will show you if he's worth your time. Everyone loves to judge but not all good relationships have pristine beginnings. Let go of your expectations of his actions. Let go of your expectation of the outcome (which must be swinging between 'happily ever after' and him doing the the same to you as he did to his girlfriend).
If the "deal" is that he waits a month for the breakup, tell him you can wait that long but no longer, and in the interests of giving the relationship the best start you will not be available to him until then (for intimate conversation or sex), as it is not fair to you. Then turn him loose and see what he does. Relax. Arrange some other activities to keep your mind off him.
If he doesn't break up with her in a month and come to you ready to be legitimate, ditch him as he can't keep his word. If he starts angsty conversations about what a hard time he's having, shut him down. Don't fuss. Don't nag him. Just be calm and watch. If he's worthwhile, despite the rocky beginning, he will come through for you.
posted by griselda at 1:27 PM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
If your thing with this guy has a chance of turning out well, you have got to stand back and trust him to handle this situation as he said he would (or better). He will show you if he's worth your time. Everyone loves to judge but not all good relationships have pristine beginnings. Let go of your expectations of his actions. Let go of your expectation of the outcome (which must be swinging between 'happily ever after' and him doing the the same to you as he did to his girlfriend).
If the "deal" is that he waits a month for the breakup, tell him you can wait that long but no longer, and in the interests of giving the relationship the best start you will not be available to him until then (for intimate conversation or sex), as it is not fair to you. Then turn him loose and see what he does. Relax. Arrange some other activities to keep your mind off him.
If he doesn't break up with her in a month and come to you ready to be legitimate, ditch him as he can't keep his word. If he starts angsty conversations about what a hard time he's having, shut him down. Don't fuss. Don't nag him. Just be calm and watch. If he's worthwhile, despite the rocky beginning, he will come through for you.
posted by griselda at 1:27 PM on July 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
Hi there,
Your situation sounds a lot like one that I was in a few months back, except my taken guy friend had ignored my attempts to stop him from sleeping with me and did it anyways. Regardless of that detail, everything else about your story sounds very similar to mine, except my guy friend put off breaking up with his girlfriend for a different reason.
Here's the truth regarding guys like the ones that are in our lives. 1) They lack a sense of morality. They didn't have to sleep with us and cheat on their girlfriends; if they cared about doing the right thing, they could have just confessed their feelings and waited until after the breakup to have sex with us. The sex really was just about the sex, no matter what they try to tell you. 2) They still have feelings for their girlfriends. I don't know about you, but when I'm ready to breakup with someone (especially if I wanted to move on and date someone else), I'm done. I wouldn't want to see my ex's face ever again and unless he was suicidal nothing would be able to stop me from breaking up with him because I would be so fed up and ready to live life for myself. I definitely wouldn't sacrifice a potential relationship with someone that I truly adored to spare my ex hurt feelings.
posted by gutterflower at 2:34 PM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Your situation sounds a lot like one that I was in a few months back, except my taken guy friend had ignored my attempts to stop him from sleeping with me and did it anyways. Regardless of that detail, everything else about your story sounds very similar to mine, except my guy friend put off breaking up with his girlfriend for a different reason.
Here's the truth regarding guys like the ones that are in our lives. 1) They lack a sense of morality. They didn't have to sleep with us and cheat on their girlfriends; if they cared about doing the right thing, they could have just confessed their feelings and waited until after the breakup to have sex with us. The sex really was just about the sex, no matter what they try to tell you. 2) They still have feelings for their girlfriends. I don't know about you, but when I'm ready to breakup with someone (especially if I wanted to move on and date someone else), I'm done. I wouldn't want to see my ex's face ever again and unless he was suicidal nothing would be able to stop me from breaking up with him because I would be so fed up and ready to live life for myself. I definitely wouldn't sacrifice a potential relationship with someone that I truly adored to spare my ex hurt feelings.
posted by gutterflower at 2:34 PM on July 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't know - I think that it's possible he really is putting off his breakup out of consideration towards the friends that he has made travel plans with. This doesn't automatically make him a bad guy. I would certainly try to keep a little distance from him until he has actually broken up with her, and be really cautious as you start a relationship with him. It sounds romantic to say "oh if he really loved me he would drop everything for me" but life just doesn't work like that. yes, you want someone who will put you first, but you also want someone that is considerate, and tries not to mess up other people's lives on a whim. You have known him for a while, aside from this uncomfortable situation, do you think he's a decent guy? a month is not a long time to wait. If after the travel is done, he follows through with his promises, then you may want to give him a chance.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 8:33 PM on July 29, 2013
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 8:33 PM on July 29, 2013
I think telling her would just be cruel
And playing her for the fool is not?
Look, she's going to find out someday. Are you prepared to own the guilt and remorse that comes from causing unnecessary pain to another person for your own gain?
There is nothing special about this guy. There is nothing special about your connection to him; or rather, it's no more special than a connection you could form with a healthy, available man.
Picture yourself a few years from now. Chances are, you'll no longer be with this guy (most relationships end; simple math). Then what are you left with? A diminished sense of self-respect, and a lie that you'll have to perpetuate every time you meet a new guy, and start sharing your romantic histories. "Yeah, my last boyfriend, we hooked up while he was in a long-term relationship." Yeah, that'll make you attractive.
Be cool, do the right thing, bounce this guy. Be the bigger person.
posted by nacho fries at 8:50 PM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
And playing her for the fool is not?
Look, she's going to find out someday. Are you prepared to own the guilt and remorse that comes from causing unnecessary pain to another person for your own gain?
There is nothing special about this guy. There is nothing special about your connection to him; or rather, it's no more special than a connection you could form with a healthy, available man.
Picture yourself a few years from now. Chances are, you'll no longer be with this guy (most relationships end; simple math). Then what are you left with? A diminished sense of self-respect, and a lie that you'll have to perpetuate every time you meet a new guy, and start sharing your romantic histories. "Yeah, my last boyfriend, we hooked up while he was in a long-term relationship." Yeah, that'll make you attractive.
Be cool, do the right thing, bounce this guy. Be the bigger person.
posted by nacho fries at 8:50 PM on July 29, 2013 [6 favorites]
Another thing that concerns me about this guy: he might be able to go on vacation with his girl and act like nothing's wrong. That's a huge huge huge red flag for me.
posted by gutterflower at 6:08 PM on July 30, 2013
posted by gutterflower at 6:08 PM on July 30, 2013
Just be calm and watch. If he's worthwhile, despite the rocky beginning, he will come through for you.
This is your answer.
All of the naysayers are probably right. He's probably a characterless guy who will fail you. But you don't have to make that kind of prediction. You just have to watch and wait. Fill your life with whatever you would be doing anyway. Wait and see what he does. Things that can't happen while he's in a relationship:
- Sex
- Cuddling
- Conversations about your feelings for each other (that would constitute "emotional infidelity")
Things that can happen after he's single, if you choose:
- Sex
- Cuddling
- Conversations about your feelings
You might choose to do those things, or not, down the road. At this point, you don't even have to make that choice. This question you asked is somewhat moot because you don't have any choices to make. All you have now is one option: be calm, watch, and see what he does. If a month from now he's single and acting like a decent human being, take your relationship from there. Come back and ask us then. If he's not single a month from now, you have your answer.
I think you want to categorize this as "something that will work" or "something that will not," from where you stand now. As long as you stay calm and watch what he does, time will tell. I, like everyone else, predict it won't work, and that if you do get together, it'll be tumultuous and draining. Hopefully, for your sake, these predictions are wrong. Anyway they don't matter. You don't need predictions. You can actually see what happens for yourself. Based on his actions going forward, you can judge honestly whether he keeps his word in all ways large and small, and demonstrates a strong character over time.
posted by htid at 7:02 PM on July 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is your answer.
All of the naysayers are probably right. He's probably a characterless guy who will fail you. But you don't have to make that kind of prediction. You just have to watch and wait. Fill your life with whatever you would be doing anyway. Wait and see what he does. Things that can't happen while he's in a relationship:
- Sex
- Cuddling
- Conversations about your feelings for each other (that would constitute "emotional infidelity")
Things that can happen after he's single, if you choose:
- Sex
- Cuddling
- Conversations about your feelings
You might choose to do those things, or not, down the road. At this point, you don't even have to make that choice. This question you asked is somewhat moot because you don't have any choices to make. All you have now is one option: be calm, watch, and see what he does. If a month from now he's single and acting like a decent human being, take your relationship from there. Come back and ask us then. If he's not single a month from now, you have your answer.
I think you want to categorize this as "something that will work" or "something that will not," from where you stand now. As long as you stay calm and watch what he does, time will tell. I, like everyone else, predict it won't work, and that if you do get together, it'll be tumultuous and draining. Hopefully, for your sake, these predictions are wrong. Anyway they don't matter. You don't need predictions. You can actually see what happens for yourself. Based on his actions going forward, you can judge honestly whether he keeps his word in all ways large and small, and demonstrates a strong character over time.
posted by htid at 7:02 PM on July 30, 2013 [1 favorite]
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He doesn't sound like he has any character.
posted by discopolo at 6:29 AM on July 29, 2013 [22 favorites]