How can I convince my g/f to be less exclusive ?

September 26, 2005 4:24 AM

How can I convince my g/f to be less exclusive ?

We've been together for a long time, and now live together. During the first few months, I went "submarine" to most of my friends and spent all my time with her. But seems she expects me to keep it that way from now on : there is us, and there's the rest of the world. I tend to agree with it, but can't seem to make her want to get out more, see people, even understanding I might enjoy an evening with my guy friends (ooh, did I mention I'm not supposed to have female friends anymore ?).

So, I'd like to make an outgoing person out of the cocooning/exclusive girl she is now. I'd like us to go party at night, wander in the city, see friends at the local pub, even invite some friends for a beer & pizza.

I'm always impressed by my friends who have an indendant relationship, or when I read people going out with their gang while their SO have their own party.

Please help me find ways to motivate her little by little

posted by anonymous to human relations (30 comments total)

You say 'I'm going to meet X&Y at Z on sunday, so won't be able to do Q'.
You say 'I'm going to meet X&Y at Z on sunday, wanna come?'
You say 'I'm going XXXXXing with X&Y on sunday in distant place, so won't be able to do Q'.

Doing things with other couples might be a good way to wean her off total exclusivity.

There's no need to make a big deal of doing things without her or even with her and others (at first anyway) just organise stuff to do with friends and then do it. If she organised something that clashed with work you would likely not have problems saying so, why can't you do that if it's something that clashes with something you already have planned with friends?
posted by biffa at 4:44 AM on September 26, 2005

If she was a cocooning homebody kind of person when you met her, that's probably just how she is. By all means do as biffa suggests and say "I'm going here, want to come", or even try to make a deal with her that you'll go out somewhere together once a week, but don't try and change her into an extrovert who loves going out, you can't "motivate" her to change her fundamental nature, I don't think you should even try (how insulting) and I guarantee you wouldn't like it if she did the same to you. It is not reasonable to try and make her be something she isn't, nor is it your responsibility to figure out ways for her to entertain herself when you go out with your friends (which you must do). I assume she is an adult, treat her like one.

The issue with you not seeing your friends is ridiculous. You say "Did we have any plans for *day with a y in it*? If not, I've been neglecting my friends, and I need to spend some time with them, so I'm going to *foo* with *bar*", and you just go. By all means invite her along occasionally, but see your friends, and see them by yourself. You did not agree to cutting yourself off from your friends by entering into this relationship, it's not healthy to do so, and someone who loves you should understand that your friends matter to you.
posted by biscotti at 5:35 AM on September 26, 2005

Like your girlfriend, I'm introverted. I would probably be happy spending the next 10 years alone with my wife on an island. Luckily, she is similar to me -- but not as extreme. In general, she does like being alone with me, but she's a bit more social and sometimes wants us to go to a party. But parties fill me with anxiety. I don't like being trapped someplace where I don't have anyone to talk to (this can happen to me in a room full of people). But I feel much better (and much more willing to socialize) if we have an agreement BEFORE the part and we stick to it. Perhaps the agreement is "we'll leave at midnight." If this is the agreement, I won't try to get out of it earlier. Even if I'm having a bad time, I will grin and bear it until midnight. On the other hand, my wife will leave with me AT midnight. This structure makes me feel SO much easier and (sometimes) even allows me to enjoy myself. And if I'm not, I know when it will be over.

Though this isn't an issue for me, I think the same thing applies to "going out with the guys." structure. Say, "I'll be back at 11:30 and BE back at 11:30. When you build up trust -- when your girlfriend is able to see that you always DO come back to her, maybe she'll loosen up and you won't have to stick to a structure.

I second the "couples" idea. I recently suggested to my wife that we have a dinner party every month. That (hopefully) will deal with some of her need to be social while keeping me in an environment that is a bit more controlled than a full-out PAR-TAY.

Most important, remember that these issues are REAL and difficult. To you, it may seem like "what's the big deal?" To her it is a VERY big deal. Similarly, she may think, "why can't he be content to just stay home with me?" You need to both realize that this has nothing to do with the other person. Different people have different social needs. You have to find a way to make sure both of you get your needs met.
posted by grumblebee at 5:41 AM on September 26, 2005 [1 favorite]

Socializing with friends that also have SOs may help. Calm friends (non-threatening). Take her to visit friends whose homes are not as nice as yours--Not so she feels superior, but to assure she doesn't feel inferior.

I tend to be like her, and I'm not always happy about that. But I talked to my in-laws and learned my SO was never very social anyway, so at least I don't feel guilty.

Things to avoid: Avoid visits that never end! Some early fights with my SO were over his best friend, who is self-centered and socially inept himself. He doesn't know when to say goodnight and leave. Its a pity, as he isn't a boring person.

Avoid long conversations about things you did or used to do with the friends you visit together. This can be fun, but it is more likely to be boring for your SO, who wasn't there. It reminds her that she is new, and can feel threatening.

If you go out without her, tell her when to expect you back, then make sure you do that. It should be by a time before she'd usually be going to bed, so you can tell her about it.
posted by Goofyy at 5:41 AM on September 26, 2005

"did I mention I'm not supposed to have female friends anymore" -

This will not end well, unless she undergoes a radical personality revision.
posted by Irontom at 5:42 AM on September 26, 2005

what Irontom said
posted by matteo at 6:37 AM on September 26, 2005

I just want to second what Irontom said. If a partner tries to stop you from having friends of the opposite sex (speaking hetero here, obviously) then you have problems. And they will bite you one day. She doesn't trust you and she needs to be encouraged to get over that. It is wholly unreasonable to expect someone to give up (or stop forming) platonic friendships just because you're partnered.

I'd also add (in an annoying "hindsight is 20-20" way) that couples who "go submarine" are also storing up issues for themselves. Whilst it is perfectly understandable that you want to spend lots of time with your loved one - especially during the first flush of newness - and that you will give priority to the loved one over friends, it is seriously unhealthy to simply wallow in total exclusivity and stop seeing other people altogether. So, what I'm saying here is that by going along with this at all you've kinda made a rod for your own back. It would have been better to make it clear right up front that hey, you're not the kind of guy who cuts his friends just because he's in a relationship. But that's for another time, if there is one.

Now? The usual answer - communication. You need to sit down with her and tell her your concerns. Make it clear that you can be trusted but that you don't think this continued exclusivity is a good idea. Socialising with others is stimulating. It is actually good for a relationship because it stops you sinking steadily into that cosy but ultimately stultifying world of only being exposed to each other's ways of being.

Talk to her. Gently. The "other couples" idea is good too - you wouldn't want to start off by seeing just female friends as a first foray into socialising, for example. Introversion might go some way towards explaining your girlfriend's attitude but it sounds to me that there's a measure of good old-fashioned jealousy in there too, so watch it...
posted by Decani at 6:37 AM on September 26, 2005 [1 favorite]

There's lots of excellent advice above, so I'll just add that you're definitely doing the smart thing by working on this issue. So many people who have had their relationships end have said to me, "I lost touch with all my friends while I was with X and now I really regret it." The couple and even the nuclear family who cocoon are making a mistake. They are way too vulnerable and it's also not good for society at large (it leaves people without families or partners horribly isolated). It's much better for people to have a wider social network.
posted by orange swan at 6:43 AM on September 26, 2005

This is not an issue about your gf being introverted. This is a control issue. If she's dictating who you are allowed to associate with, she's trying to control you.

As for Decani's suggestion to "Make it clear that you can be trusted..." I'd toss that out the window. If your behavior has not already proven how trustworthy you are, a conversation or three will not do it either.
posted by onhazier at 6:47 AM on September 26, 2005

it is seriously unhealthy to simply wallow in total exclusivity and stop seeing other people altogether.

I deeply disagree. While it IS unhealthy to be in a relationship where there's constant tension over differing social needs, it's not unhealthy if both partners are on the same page or if they are on different pages but can tolerate each other's differences.

Highly social people ALWAYS claim it is unhealthy to keep to yourself. What's the evidence for this? I'm sure it IS unhealthy for a SOCIAL person to keep to himself. As for me, if I'm forced to be social, I show all the classic signs of being UNhealthy -- stress, anxiety, etc. If I'm allowed to stay within my comfort zone (alone with a loved one), then I'm deeply happy and relaxed.

Work out your problems, but PLEASE don't tell your girlfriend that her desire to be alone with you is unhealthy. Her jealousy may be unhealthy, but her introversion isn't necessarily so.
posted by grumblebee at 6:49 AM on September 26, 2005

If your behavior has not already proven how trustworthy you are, a conversation or three will not do it either.

CONVERSATIONS never prove us trustworthy. Actions prove us trustworthy.
posted by grumblebee at 6:51 AM on September 26, 2005

"did I mention I'm not supposed to have female friends anymore"

Did you ever date or have romantic feelings for any of these female friends? That could be a reason she's uncomfortable with it. Sometimes things are not so simple as the woman being insecure.
posted by letterneversent at 6:56 AM on September 26, 2005

Well, I disagree with the advice regarding the no-girl-friends clause. I don't think it has to lead to any sort of serious trouble. In any case what your girlfriend probably means is simply that she doesn't want you to have a friend (who is a woman) and is a stranger to your girlfriend and with whom you talk/associate with only when your girlfriend is not around. But then again why would you want a friend that fell under such an odd (and frankly suspicious) umbrella?

In any case, I've had similar problems in the past. By all means have the conversation where you simply explain that you want to do x with y on z. However, make it abundantly clear that you will do q with her on t. In other words, for every night that you don't spend without her (or for every night you drag her out with you) you should spend at least one night doing something exclusively with her (probably at home). Further, she should know that she is getting couple's time in exchange for being mature about letting you have a boys' night. (For example, every time I go out to play poker with my friends my wife knows that I'll be making her a nice dinner the next night.)

Quid pro quo and all that.
posted by oddman at 8:19 AM on September 26, 2005

Ahem, "for every night that you don't spend with her, you should ..."

Silly typos. I proof-read, I swear.
posted by oddman at 8:21 AM on September 26, 2005

Hey you're me! I'm a pretty social person in a relationship with someone who is much more introverted. We have a pretty good balance in our relationship mainly because of a few things we're both aware of

- since I'm social, his introverted self is not going to be the full range of my social connections, nor should it be
- going out with other people at least sometimes is a good way to do all sorts of things, learn things, experience new things, leave the house, get exercise, whatever
- it's okay for me to socialize without him [and vice versa]
- it's not okay for me to do the things that are generally not okay otherwise [get involved with other people, not be honest/accurate in what I'm going and what I'm doing, be home on time, etc] in the name of being sociable
- I'm not going to be radically different from how I was when he met me [I'll still have friends of both genders, etc]


If you cocooned with your gf when you first moved in together and now want to do less of that, she may be wondering "What changed?" and it might be worthwhile talking to her about how you're aware that there is a change happening but that this is just sort of you being more like you normally are, it's not you liking her less or being less into the relationship which may be a subtle underlying concern. I'm with everyone else that you can't change her, but you may be able to involve her in some of the things that you like as she involved you in some of the things that she likes.

For introverted people, relating with other people socially is tiring. Keep that in mind as you try to plan events that the two of you might like. One of the things we do, in addition to all of grumblebee's suggestions [make a plan together and stick to that plan] is some post-event processing where you can talk about the evening or what you did, see if it all went okay for both of you, see what you could do differently next time. In our case, this allows small issues to come up like "I didn't like how you left me alone to talk to that crazy person while you went to find a beer...." before they become big issues. Since you both have different levels of enjoyment of social situations, this might help you understand where your gf is coming from, and what works for her and what doesn't.
posted by jessamyn at 8:22 AM on September 26, 2005 [1 favorite]

It's different that just a "control issue"

It's about her fears of losing you. Address that, and you can have female friends and do stuff both with your male friends and your couple friends.

For what it's worth, once entered into 'couplehood", you will start to lose most of your friends of the opposite sex.

Your time would be:
Time with her
Time with couples
Time with guy friends
Time with female friends.

The female friends are, unfortunately, bottom of the list, and the often are the first to go. Oh, sure you can keep one or two...but wouldn't' you find it a little uncomfortable if your gf started hanging out with two or three other men during the week for beer, pizza, movies etc. Those activities, while friendly in nature, when they occur with the opposite sex, are a level of courtship.
posted by filmgeek at 8:29 AM on September 26, 2005

"Those activities, while friendly in nature, when they occur with the opposite sex, are a level of courtship."

Respectfully, that's nonsense. It might be courtship for you to hang out with someone of the opposite sex, but I've had close female friends for a long time while I've been married without courtship/ sexuality coming into it.
posted by Pericles at 8:57 AM on September 26, 2005

I deeply disagree. While it IS unhealthy to be in a relationship where there's constant tension over differing social needs, it's not unhealthy if both partners are on the same page or if they are on different pages but can tolerate each other's differences.

Well, without wanting to derail this, I deeply disagree with that. Being anti-social is unhealthy for all sorts of reasons and you won't have to look very far for the psychological literature to back that up. And withdrawing from any relationships other than the one with your love/life partner is anti-social.

On the other hand, you shouldn't need to look for the psychological literature. I don't think it's that hard to figure out why withdrawing into exclusive coupledom is unhealthy in the long run.

By the way, I used to be what you might call introverted and painfully shy. Arguably that is still my default reaction to social situations. However, I could see that indulging this tendency was holding me back in life. Not only was it making me unconfident (or rather, not helping my inherent lack of confidence) it was making it hard to even do things like, oh, meeting girls and forming relationships. You know? Working on overcoming my shyness and introversion was one of the best things I ever did and it made all sorts of issues and problems recede for me. Learning to deal with people and actually enjoy social interaction is a very valuable life skill. Especially if you live and work with and around lots of other human beings, as most of us do. Refusing to deal with it and simply using it as an excuse for being anti-social seems to me to be a sort of resistance to maturing.

Ever seen one of these "my partner is all I ever need" people after the relationship goes kablooey - either through dumping or death? You should. And then compare how they do with someone who has maintained a healthy and active social network.
posted by Decani at 9:23 AM on September 26, 2005

Hey Pericles, how do you those women weren't courting you? Further, are you saying you never, not even for a single fleeting moment, had a romantic/sexual thought about some of those women? I suspect you had a few. Now, you obviously have a proper amount of self-control, and take you marriage seriously. If you had such thoughts, you were able to brush them aside with little to no effort. However, not every man is so prudent.

That last sentence I wrote is, I believe, the key to the behavior of the poster's girlfriend. If you know that a certain kind of inappropriate behavior is somewhat common it is perfectly natural to be concerned that a loved one is in danger of engaging in said behavior. It is also perfectly common (though not horribly effective) to try to forbid said loved one from engaging in said behavior.
posted by oddman at 9:57 AM on September 26, 2005

oddman: I have to strongly disagree with you, and ideas like the ones you've described simply contribute to problems between men and women. Men and women absolutely CAN be "just friends" with each other, and there is no good reason to think that you should stop being friends with someone simply because of their gender, just because your SO has a problem with suspicion. Who cares if someone has a fleeting romantic/sexual thought about someone else? Why does this matter? Do you honestly think that preventing your SO from seeing people of the oppposite sex prevents this? And why does it need preventing anyway? It's exceptionally naive (verging on delusional) to think that once you're in a relationship you're never going to even think about someone else. Someone who's going to cheat, is going to cheat no matter what you try and do to prevent it (barring caging them for life), and someone who isn't, isn't. Men aren't all walking bags of mindless hormones (and if anonymous is, then better his GF find that out now, than later), and women aren't all suspicious loonies. Forbidding him from seeing his female friends is just silly, controlling and will ultimately harm their relationship (i.e. have him end up asking/complaining about it here).

There are a lot of extremely unhealthy things going on here. There is a clear lack of trust (is there a reason your GF mistrusts you, anon, or is she just generally not trusting?), there is a clear misunderstanding of appropriate relationship boundaries (i.e. what is and is not each other's business), and there is a clear lack of communication.
posted by biscotti at 10:44 AM on September 26, 2005

Caring for Your Introvert

Your GF has problems. But you have to approach her on her terms and get her to win some small victories before you take larger steps. Bear in mind that an introvert will never be an extrovert completely. They can function better or worse in social settings, but they will always be introverted on a basic level and that's part of who they are.
posted by scarabic at 10:56 AM on September 26, 2005

I can't believe that there are still some people who believe that someone should be forbidden from socializing with 50% of the world's population just because they're in a relationship. I have had many male friends in my life with no romance involved, and they have been among the most fulfilling of my life. I wouldn't believe that my husband would care for me very much if he wanted me to give those up in a sacrifice to his (hypothetical) insecurity/control issues.

I would be very wary about someone who was so controlling. On the other hand, has she actually said that you are not "supposed to have female friends" or that she "expects" you not to go out with your friends? Because if not, she may not actually feel this way. Have a little talk.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 12:57 PM on September 26, 2005

Well, without wanting to derail this ... Being anti-social is unhealthy for all sorts of reasons and you won't have to look very far for the psychological literature to back that up. And withdrawing from any relationships other than the one with your love/life partner is anti-social.

I don't think it's a derail. Anon needs to understand his gf's mindset.

Being an exclusive couple CAN be unhealthy, but it needn't be. Labeling someone anti-social makes him sound horrible, but there are various forms of anti-social behavior, some worse than others. NON-social isn't the same as anti-social.

I am definitely not against people being social (THAT would be anti-social), nor am I rude to people. If someone needs help, I help them. If someone asks me a question, I answer it.

But I don't like having lots of friends. I never have. I live being really really really close to a few people. Sometimes just one person. Anything else is exhausting to me.

If that one person doesn't WANT such close attention, then there's trouble. But if it's mutual, then what's the big deal?

I don't have low self-esteem. When my wife is not around, I don't curl into a fetal position and weep. I just spend (fun) time alone. I just have a way I like to be. And being that way makes me and my SO happy. Where's the negative?

The only negative I can see is that my wife might die (or leave me) and I'd be VERY alone. Yes, that is horrible. But I'm not going to live my life around that possibility. I'm certainly not going to make friends just so I'll have someone to hang out with in the event of a disaster.
posted by grumblebee at 1:07 PM on September 26, 2005

On a slight side-tangent, you should go see, if you can, a recent movie called "the perfect crime" (el crimen perfecto in the US, el crimen ferpecto in Spain I think). It shows (in a darkly humorous way) about the most extreme case of a controlling/possessive relationship that you can imagine, and you and your girlfriend might benefit from laughing about the situation.
posted by advil at 1:26 PM on September 26, 2005

Start small.

It's important to make the first few experiences - you dragging her out for an evening with your friends - pleasant for her. I suggest starting with your nicest, most pleasantly extroverted friends, and only a few of them - a happy, socially-well-adjusted couple would be ideal. Pick a couple whose interaction you would like to serve as a model, and let them know in advance, "I want to bring gf out on a double date with you guys so she can see how much fun it can be!" Then, just make sure she has a good time.

Also, don't expect her basic personality to change. That expectation is always a recipe for disaster. She should, reasonably, compromise on this one; you need to compromise on it too and make sure her needs for privacy, couple time, and alone time are met.
posted by ikkyu2 at 1:34 PM on September 26, 2005

Get used to it: family life is mostly "submarine." Once you have kids you'll be lucky to get out on the town once a week, but in any event you'll find that all of your oh-so-fascinating friends are utter bores compared to your 3-year-old.
posted by MattD at 2:12 PM on September 26, 2005

Hey Biscotti, take a deep breadth and relax for a minute. You might find that we don't disagree. (Quotations from you in italics.)

"Men and women absolutely CAN be "just friends" with each other, and there is no good reason to think that you should stop being friends with someone simply because of their gender" Where, exactly, did I say otherwise?
My point is that even friends can have sexual/romantic feelings for each other. I happen to think this is a common occurence. I also think it is harmless and normal.


"Do you honestly think that preventing your SO from seeing people of the oppposite sex prevents this?" Let's see I wrote that issuing ultimatums is a "not horribly effective" method of preventing unwanted behavior.

"It's exceptionally naive (verging on delusional) to think that once you're in a relationship you're never going to even think about someone else." I wrote, (vis-a-vis having naughty thoughts) "I suspect you had a few."

"Men aren't all walking bags of mindless hormones" I wrote, "not every man is so prudent" clearly acknowledging that at least some men aren't lecherous bastards. I never made a claim about population sizes but I suspect that incorrigible cheaters are in the minority.

"Forbidding him from seeing his female friends is just silly, controlling" I never said it was a good thing to do this. I merely tried to show a reasonable perspective from which the poster's girlfriend might be viewed. I'll reiterate, if the poster is having meetings with strange women and not including his girlfriend, then the girlfriend has every right to be suspicious and attempt to curtail the activity. (Please note, I am in no way suggesting that the poster is actually doing this. But it is possible that this is how his girlfriend sees it. In which case a healthy amount of communication is in order.)

So Biscotti, what is your problem? Because from where I'm standing we seem to agree an aweful lot.

Oh, furthermore, I think Ikkyu2 made a good suggestion.
posted by oddman at 4:16 PM on September 26, 2005

So Biscotti, what is your problem?

That I seem to be misreading posts like crazy today? I swear your posts didn't read the way they do now earlier today, or I associated your name with a different post. Never mind, my bad, I'm stepping away from the keyboard. Obviously, this is one of those issues which I take really personally so I misread and then over-reacted. Apologies. We don't disagree after all. I'll get my eyes adjusted tomorrow, and refill my chill pill prescription.

And I agree, ikkuyu2's suggestion was good.
posted by biscotti at 4:54 PM on September 26, 2005

Speaking for myself, I would simply the "no female friends" expectation, on the grounds that it is so outragously out of line that there is no argument to be had nor any obligation to heed it. (Assuming there has been no unfaithfulness). If the problem she has with this is big enough for concern, she will bring it up directly soon enough, and the position can be explained tactfully and with care.

A destructive relationship is worse than no relationship. The controlling of friends isn't in the "quirk" league. A partner has no right to this. Best of luck in trying to be graceful, it's a nasty misguided problem to be facing. Try not to sacrifice too many people to the problems of one person.

^{Sorry for sounding so callous. But as you probably guessed, to me, the controlling of friends is a line that may be never be crossed, by either party}
posted by -harlequin- at 7:01 PM on September 26, 2005

I'm glad that I wasn't too snarky in my reply. :) Who said mefi discussions always have to devolve into shouting matches?

Hope this helped you a bit, anon.
posted by oddman at 7:05 PM on September 26, 2005