Buying an older diesel car (80's) for daily use
June 28, 2013 10:16 AM Subscribe
I am looking to buy an 81 VW Rabbit diesel (turbo diesel, non-intercooled) as a daily driver. I have experience with gasoline engines, and routine maintenance, but diesels are new to me.
I am also trying to decide if it is a good idea purchase the car, considering the age and heightened upkeep it will require. The price is a bit high compared to what Ive seen, but if it was well maintained it may be worth it from my standpoint. Those who I have spoken to about the car are either very for the idea, or very against it, with little middle ground.
The body of the car seems to be in good shape. The body and frame have ~200k on them, while the motor has had a rebuild within the past few months. I am likely to ask a mechanic to look over the car, and give me an opinion on the current state of things.
My main concern is reliability and cold starts. I am living in the northeast now, and while I may have access to power for a block heater, it isn't guaranteed at all times.
I am also trying to decide if it is a good idea purchase the car, considering the age and heightened upkeep it will require. The price is a bit high compared to what Ive seen, but if it was well maintained it may be worth it from my standpoint. Those who I have spoken to about the car are either very for the idea, or very against it, with little middle ground.
The body of the car seems to be in good shape. The body and frame have ~200k on them, while the motor has had a rebuild within the past few months. I am likely to ask a mechanic to look over the car, and give me an opinion on the current state of things.
My main concern is reliability and cold starts. I am living in the northeast now, and while I may have access to power for a block heater, it isn't guaranteed at all times.
A 1981 diesel will pollute like hell (and I write that as an owner of a diesel car, though not one that old). When starting from cold, you will smoke, even with the glow plugs.
No 1981 car is going to reliable by this century's standards.
Is there any particular reason you want this particular car (as opposed to the many less old, less polluting used vehicles that can be purchased quite cheaply)?
posted by ssg at 10:59 AM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
No 1981 car is going to reliable by this century's standards.
Is there any particular reason you want this particular car (as opposed to the many less old, less polluting used vehicles that can be purchased quite cheaply)?
posted by ssg at 10:59 AM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
My family had the very same car new when I was growing up in New Jersey. I don't remember it smoking too much, but it was loud and clattery, and the duration from start to highway speed could be timed with a calendar, which makes me wonder about the turbo in your example. Is it a retro-fit? I don't think diesels came from the factory with turbos until the Mk II era (if so, it hopefully negates some of the glacial "acceleration" we had to deal with).
I remember it as fairly reliable, and there was only one really cold stretch of weather over five NJ winters where the fuel got gummy. If it checks out with the mechanic I'd go for it (though SSG above has a good question).
posted by jalexei at 11:00 AM on June 28, 2013
I remember it as fairly reliable, and there was only one really cold stretch of weather over five NJ winters where the fuel got gummy. If it checks out with the mechanic I'd go for it (though SSG above has a good question).
posted by jalexei at 11:00 AM on June 28, 2013
The thing here is what are your expectations regarding reliability? It's a 30 year old car. New cars are going 100,000 miles without a tune-up. Cars from the 80's needed more maintenance when they were new - and certainly will need more maintenance after three decades.
My dad restores vintage cars and I say this from experience. You are buying a car that will never have modern car reliability. Ask your mechanic if he has a quick, reliable source of parts. If you need to wait a week to source a part, that's a week of no car. If this is your only method of daily transportation, it'll be a problem.
Also, it was driven about 6,500 miles a year. That's bordering on suspiciously low unless it's a single owner with a good reasonable explanation.
posted by 26.2 at 11:07 AM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
My dad restores vintage cars and I say this from experience. You are buying a car that will never have modern car reliability. Ask your mechanic if he has a quick, reliable source of parts. If you need to wait a week to source a part, that's a week of no car. If this is your only method of daily transportation, it'll be a problem.
Also, it was driven about 6,500 miles a year. That's bordering on suspiciously low unless it's a single owner with a good reasonable explanation.
posted by 26.2 at 11:07 AM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
I owned one, and for bonus points, I was living in Minnesota at the time.
They're reliable enough in winter without needing to be plugged in. You'll need to run blended fuel, or straight #1, in colder temps though. I forget if we had to use an additive with that car, but may diesels of that vintage needed it.
It's a smoky engine. Like any diesel. It actually pollutes less than a gas engine from that time (less CO, etc.) but all that carbon particulates will make you doubt that. Buy some work gloves - diesel smell is difficult to wash off of your hands.
The drivetrain is simple, and pretty reliable. And, has something of a cult following. But - it's a 30 year old car. You start thinking about chassis failures at this point. I don't know how much better it will be than a much newer car for the same money.
But it could be a fun ride and and it has some cachet. If you like the car, then it might be worth the problems. Otherwise, I'd pass on it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:19 AM on June 28, 2013
They're reliable enough in winter without needing to be plugged in. You'll need to run blended fuel, or straight #1, in colder temps though. I forget if we had to use an additive with that car, but may diesels of that vintage needed it.
It's a smoky engine. Like any diesel. It actually pollutes less than a gas engine from that time (less CO, etc.) but all that carbon particulates will make you doubt that. Buy some work gloves - diesel smell is difficult to wash off of your hands.
The drivetrain is simple, and pretty reliable. And, has something of a cult following. But - it's a 30 year old car. You start thinking about chassis failures at this point. I don't know how much better it will be than a much newer car for the same money.
But it could be a fun ride and and it has some cachet. If you like the car, then it might be worth the problems. Otherwise, I'd pass on it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:19 AM on June 28, 2013
My friends who have old diesel cars are all able to work on their own cars, at least to some extent. It's not clear from your question if you have any experience working on cars, but if you're like me and you need to see the mechanic for every stupid little thing, a 1981 diesel might not be the car for you.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:27 AM on June 28, 2013
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:27 AM on June 28, 2013
* ask for receipts on the engine rebuild. Seriously. A diesel like that could conceivably still run ok at 200k without one, so you may be getting had there.
* automatic or manual? An automatic with 200k miles may be dying. Vw doesn't have an especially awesome reputation with them either(google "vw om1" for example). Even Mercedes transmissions on their legendary 80s diesels might be starting to give out at 200k.
Save some money and buy a TDI if you really want a diesel. I wasn't even considering these when I was looking at various diesel cars, and wouldn't buy one unless I needed a car ASAP and it was a killer deal. These old ones seem to be commanding a dumb price premium right now too, which puts them far above most decent used cars in general that are much newer(for example, the last one I saw was going got more than a 2002 corolla that had a minor dent in the door!). Either save up some more or get something else. These are artificially inflated for whats essentially a 70s car. And will be irritating and expensive to maintain, although diesels are kind of inherently reliable.
posted by emptythought at 11:30 AM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
* automatic or manual? An automatic with 200k miles may be dying. Vw doesn't have an especially awesome reputation with them either(google "vw om1" for example). Even Mercedes transmissions on their legendary 80s diesels might be starting to give out at 200k.
Save some money and buy a TDI if you really want a diesel. I wasn't even considering these when I was looking at various diesel cars, and wouldn't buy one unless I needed a car ASAP and it was a killer deal. These old ones seem to be commanding a dumb price premium right now too, which puts them far above most decent used cars in general that are much newer(for example, the last one I saw was going got more than a 2002 corolla that had a minor dent in the door!). Either save up some more or get something else. These are artificially inflated for whats essentially a 70s car. And will be irritating and expensive to maintain, although diesels are kind of inherently reliable.
posted by emptythought at 11:30 AM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ignoring the engine for a second, keep in mind this is a 30+ year-old car with over 200K miles on it. While the body may look okay there is likely to be rust and corrosion in places you can't see, including places like the wiring and connectors. Look for another, newer, car.
posted by tommasz at 11:49 AM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 11:49 AM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is the sort of car purchase that people make who already own a reliable car.
posted by oceanjesse at 1:20 PM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by oceanjesse at 1:20 PM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
The Rabbit diesel of this era was one of the few automobiles everyone I knew who owned one absolutely hated.
Pinto owners were far happier with their cars.
posted by jamjam at 1:32 PM on June 28, 2013
Pinto owners were far happier with their cars.
posted by jamjam at 1:32 PM on June 28, 2013
I had a '79 diesel Rabbit for years and absolutely loved it. Cold starts weren't really a problem for me, but I was farther south than you so wouldn't have had weather that was quite so cold. (And in normal winter weather, the heat usually took about half an hour of interstate driving to kick in appreciably). However, given its age, the electrical system and brake lines might be getting iffy by now, even if the engine itself looks okay, so get those looked at closely.
posted by dilettante at 3:14 PM on June 28, 2013
posted by dilettante at 3:14 PM on June 28, 2013
I wouldn't buy or drive this car, I'm going to put aside the general "it's beat to death" arguement and just say that thirty years of safety improvements alone are worth leaving it alone.
Seriously, compared to even a cheap Kia, this thing is a deathtrap.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:00 PM on June 28, 2013
Seriously, compared to even a cheap Kia, this thing is a deathtrap.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:00 PM on June 28, 2013
I didn't even think about the safety aspect since my own car is older than this and has no airbags, and i'm often regarded as "crazy" for driving it. but the people above aren't barking up a nonexistant tree. Check out this video. That face>steering wheel edge impact there would probably make your head explode like a goddamn warner bros cartoon, not to even get in to what happens to the passenger. That is bad. Seriously though, animaniacs getting hit in the head with a mallet kinda crap. It would be like who framed roger rabbit all over your face.
And what they don't show is your face still plowing the absolute fuck out of that steering wheel when you're rear-ended and fly forwards after the initial impact. See how useless the seatbelts are? this is caveman tech.
Seriously, compared to even a cheap Kia, this thing is a deathtrap.
Is spot on. Go buy a >2000 corolla with 100k on it for 2-3 grand or something and forget about this idea. Or even a hyundai accent or some shit. Craigslist is full of those.
A "Leaving the grocery store and driving down blabla avenue at 25mph" accident in one of these could leave you captain pike status, if not just with your mom casket shopping because your brain is now e shaped instead of O shaped. It doesn't even have the advantage of the old american battleships of weighing as much as a loaded truck. It's a coca cola can.
I don't know what to attribute to me not even thinking of this, but i was really only thinking of it from a mechanical/operational standpoint(in which it still kinda sucks!). Absolute deathmobile.
People are stupid. Don't bet your own life on them not fucking up or being terrible drivers(even once), and on crappy non-ABS brakes on what's essentially a soapbox derby car.
posted by emptythought at 11:04 PM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
And what they don't show is your face still plowing the absolute fuck out of that steering wheel when you're rear-ended and fly forwards after the initial impact. See how useless the seatbelts are? this is caveman tech.
Seriously, compared to even a cheap Kia, this thing is a deathtrap.
Is spot on. Go buy a >2000 corolla with 100k on it for 2-3 grand or something and forget about this idea. Or even a hyundai accent or some shit. Craigslist is full of those.
A "Leaving the grocery store and driving down blabla avenue at 25mph" accident in one of these could leave you captain pike status, if not just with your mom casket shopping because your brain is now e shaped instead of O shaped. It doesn't even have the advantage of the old american battleships of weighing as much as a loaded truck. It's a coca cola can.
I don't know what to attribute to me not even thinking of this, but i was really only thinking of it from a mechanical/operational standpoint(in which it still kinda sucks!). Absolute deathmobile.
People are stupid. Don't bet your own life on them not fucking up or being terrible drivers(even once), and on crappy non-ABS brakes on what's essentially a soapbox derby car.
posted by emptythought at 11:04 PM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
One peculiarity of diesels are the glow plugs. IIRC, you pull a button on the dash until they heat up (as indicated a little yellow light). Once they're hot, you're free to start the engine. I noticed 2 things while driving it around. First, it seemed to put out a lot more smoky exhaust than other cars (particularly when you start moving from a stoplight, for example). The headliner, in fact, was sort of dingy with the stuff. Whether this means it was poorly maintained, I couldn't say - I didn't own it for long enough to find out. Mileagewise, the thing was bulletproof, and the purr of a little diesel engine sounded just like a dump truck or something - just softer and higher in pitch.
The other thing is that fewer gas stations carry diesel than I'd thought. Texaco would pretty reliably have it at the time. Maybe it's more available nowadays - I'm going back better than 20 years. But it seems like I had to really know where the 2 or 3 places that sold it were in my area, because there was no guarantee it'd be at a mom-and-pop place. This may vary by area, too, I suppose.
You may notice places selling "off-road diesel" for considerably less than you'll see it posted at other gas stations. Strongly resist the urge to use it for your car. It's meant for tractors and other equipment and is exempt from taxes. It's dyed red and if you're caught with it in your gas tank, you will be 100% screwed.
posted by jquinby at 10:33 AM on June 28, 2013 [1 favorite]