Cat bit the neighbor (most recently)
June 16, 2013 9:28 AM Subscribe
Shmitty is a 4 year old, male, Siamese (mix?). He was adopted at age 1 by our family 3 years ago from a family who was going to get rid of him because he had bitten their small children. At his former residence he was indoor only, with us he is indoor/outdoor. We love Shmitty. He is a beautiful, friendly cat....most of the time. The problem is that Shmitty has continued to bite on occasion.
During his stay with us Shmitty has bitten all of us at least once. The scenario is usually: He appears calm and loving, say sitting with you while being stroked on the couch, and suddenly he will latch on to your arm. He doesn't give any easily readable signals or warnings that we can pick up on...keep in mind: he has done this to 7 people that I know of.
None of the immediate family has been bitten lately, having learned that it's best to not get too cuddly with him.
Last week Shmitty bit the our neighbor/friend. Big time.
He was over at her house in the early evening and she was stroking him while sitting in a chair. The cat was evidently so relaxed that he began to slide off of her lap and when she went to adjust his position...WHAMO!...big bite to her forearm requiring medical attention.
We sick about the situation.
Question: What do we do about this cat? Warn the neighbors not to engage him? Surrender him to a shelter? What other options do we have?
During his stay with us Shmitty has bitten all of us at least once. The scenario is usually: He appears calm and loving, say sitting with you while being stroked on the couch, and suddenly he will latch on to your arm. He doesn't give any easily readable signals or warnings that we can pick up on...keep in mind: he has done this to 7 people that I know of.
None of the immediate family has been bitten lately, having learned that it's best to not get too cuddly with him.
Last week Shmitty bit the our neighbor/friend. Big time.
He was over at her house in the early evening and she was stroking him while sitting in a chair. The cat was evidently so relaxed that he began to slide off of her lap and when she went to adjust his position...WHAMO!...big bite to her forearm requiring medical attention.
We sick about the situation.
Question: What do we do about this cat? Warn the neighbors not to engage him? Surrender him to a shelter? What other options do we have?
In my experience, most cats do this when they get stressed for some reason - for any reason. So unless you are suggesting a pattern that is tied to this individual animal, I'd just try to avoid, and tell people to avoid, such scenarios.
My own cat, normally the most trusting and sweet thing imaginable, bit me (a two-week antibiotics cure) when I tried to carry her away from a large dog. Why? Because I was holding her, and her instincts told her that that was unsafe not to be fully mobile, close to that dog. In the example you're citing, she was sliding off, her instincts told her to flip around to catch herself, and she was interfered with at that moment. A very similar situation, it seems.
"Calm and loving" and "no warnings": are you sure you watched the tip of the tail? That, and the position of the ears, are telling you when things get irritating for the cat.
posted by Namlit at 9:41 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
My own cat, normally the most trusting and sweet thing imaginable, bit me (a two-week antibiotics cure) when I tried to carry her away from a large dog. Why? Because I was holding her, and her instincts told her that that was unsafe not to be fully mobile, close to that dog. In the example you're citing, she was sliding off, her instincts told her to flip around to catch herself, and she was interfered with at that moment. A very similar situation, it seems.
"Calm and loving" and "no warnings": are you sure you watched the tip of the tail? That, and the position of the ears, are telling you when things get irritating for the cat.
posted by Namlit at 9:41 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
At the very least, keep him inside until you resolve this. Cat bites can get infected really easily, and it's one thing to be able to direct people in your own home that the cat suddenly bites while being petted (not unusual to bite while getting affection, but unusual to draw blood), it's another to assume that everyone he might come in contact with will be lucky enough not to be bitten.
It depends if this is play-biting or defensive-biting.
posted by jeather at 9:44 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
It depends if this is play-biting or defensive-biting.
posted by jeather at 9:44 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm really sorry... but cats being cats, I don't see that you have much of an option other than to demote him back to 'indoor cat' status. There's no surefire way to get him to stop biting people, and there's no way you could inform every possible person that he might come into contact with as an outdoor cat that he might bite, AND make sure they were O.K. with the potential consequences. This sucks, I know, but unfortunately so do cat bites requiring medical attention. So does litigation (I'm being alarmist, I know, but you can't rule out him biting a crazy person who would think nothing of doing such a thing.) Sorry.
posted by Rewind at 9:44 AM on June 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by Rewind at 9:44 AM on June 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
A lot of cats don't really understand petting, so they like it, but they also find it confusing. And they can be idiosyncratic, what one cat likes, the other doesn't. Some cats, for instance, are very head shy. Many cats are very sensitive to being touched on their hindquarters, it is not at all unusual for cats to bite or scratch if they are inappropriately touched on their hindquarters.
Do you know, or have a friend who is a true Class 5 cat person who can come and meet the cat and talk to you about it? It is amazing how one person can relate to a cat based on their experience and knowing what they are doing (this can take years to learn), they might pick up on subtle signals and body language.
Most of the time, it is just a question of understanding the cat. There is usually a reason for their behavior.
posted by nanook at 9:45 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
Do you know, or have a friend who is a true Class 5 cat person who can come and meet the cat and talk to you about it? It is amazing how one person can relate to a cat based on their experience and knowing what they are doing (this can take years to learn), they might pick up on subtle signals and body language.
Most of the time, it is just a question of understanding the cat. There is usually a reason for their behavior.
posted by nanook at 9:45 AM on June 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
If I have this correctly, he never bites unless you are petting him. So, I would not pet him unless I was willing to risk a bite. I would tell all my friends not to pet him, ever. Yes, it sucks that he will get less affection, but that seems to be the best option out of some shitty options.
No one should ever pet a cat they don't know - it's not safe. I sort of think that if a random stranger pets him and he bites, that's on them. You could consider removing his collar (if he wears one) since a collar is a signal that a cat is a pet, and no collar is a signal that a cat might be feral.
posted by insectosaurus at 9:46 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
No one should ever pet a cat they don't know - it's not safe. I sort of think that if a random stranger pets him and he bites, that's on them. You could consider removing his collar (if he wears one) since a collar is a signal that a cat is a pet, and no collar is a signal that a cat might be feral.
posted by insectosaurus at 9:46 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Cats aren't like dogs, and I've experienced things like this with my cat. I do not in any way consider my cat aggressive. The thing is, he always gives readable signals and warnings--they are just (usually) less clear cut than with dogs. Unhappy cat signs are (in order of escalation) tail wagging/flicking, ears forward, death stare or squinty-eyed glare, raised hackles, tail puffed up, low, throaty growl. If I pet my cat's tummy for too long, the tail gets really active and then I get bit, usually with an accompanying kick or seven with the back legs (which is how cats kill their prey).
You might be well-served by watching a few episodes of My Cat From Hell. Almost universally, what's recommended are many escape routes for a cat, including cat trees and raised shelves. Also lots of play and exercise and better reading of cat body language. And there are many, many reasons to keep your cat in. This is only one of them.
The situation with your neighbor frankly just sounds like the cat was afraid of falling and overstimulated. Both are likely to evoke bite/claw responses because OH NOES! SCARED CAT!
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:47 AM on June 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
You might be well-served by watching a few episodes of My Cat From Hell. Almost universally, what's recommended are many escape routes for a cat, including cat trees and raised shelves. Also lots of play and exercise and better reading of cat body language. And there are many, many reasons to keep your cat in. This is only one of them.
The situation with your neighbor frankly just sounds like the cat was afraid of falling and overstimulated. Both are likely to evoke bite/claw responses because OH NOES! SCARED CAT!
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:47 AM on June 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
Well, first of all, you need to keep him indoors at all times. One, he's a biter, and do you really need god-knows-what from a dead bird or whatever else he gets into outdoors driven into your arm with pointy teeth? I say no. He was indoor-only before, he'll be fine with it again.
Two: some cats just do this. You aren't going to train it out of him. There is a reason the phrase "herding cats" is a thing, and you can substitute "training cats" there for a lot of issues.
Three: your family knows to avoid him in order to not get bitten. Why haven't you extended the same courtesy to your neighbors and other visitors? Our one cat Giles hates being picked up. HATES IT. Hates it with the fire of a thousand suns. Our other cat, you could juggle and he would thank you afterwards. When new people who don't know our cats' quirks enter the house and Giles allows them to pet him (which wasn't always an option either, since he's a total scaredy cat), we immediately tell them "he likes petting but don't try to pick him up, he hates that." And then they know respect his boundaries.
The problem with the neighbor was avoidable by keeping him indoors. You can control the situation and make sure people know his quirks when he is in your house, you cannot do that if he is out wandering around.
If you rehome him, you need to make sure the shelter knows about his proclivities. But as mentioned above, it's not looking good for him if you try that option. Please keep him inside and keep visitors informed about his habits so they can make decisions appropriately. You knew he was a biter when you got him so, I'm sorry, but this is not a cat problem, this is a person problem.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:47 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Two: some cats just do this. You aren't going to train it out of him. There is a reason the phrase "herding cats" is a thing, and you can substitute "training cats" there for a lot of issues.
Three: your family knows to avoid him in order to not get bitten. Why haven't you extended the same courtesy to your neighbors and other visitors? Our one cat Giles hates being picked up. HATES IT. Hates it with the fire of a thousand suns. Our other cat, you could juggle and he would thank you afterwards. When new people who don't know our cats' quirks enter the house and Giles allows them to pet him (which wasn't always an option either, since he's a total scaredy cat), we immediately tell them "he likes petting but don't try to pick him up, he hates that." And then they know respect his boundaries.
The problem with the neighbor was avoidable by keeping him indoors. You can control the situation and make sure people know his quirks when he is in your house, you cannot do that if he is out wandering around.
If you rehome him, you need to make sure the shelter knows about his proclivities. But as mentioned above, it's not looking good for him if you try that option. Please keep him inside and keep visitors informed about his habits so they can make decisions appropriately. You knew he was a biter when you got him so, I'm sorry, but this is not a cat problem, this is a person problem.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:47 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Agreeing with Rewind, Schmitty should be an indoor cat. It doesn't matter why the cat did it, whether some people could have predicted / avoided being bitten, etc. Schmitty has a problematic history of biting, and Schmitty is your responsibility. You can't control Schmitty when he goes out, so he doesn't go out.
posted by jon1270 at 9:49 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by jon1270 at 9:49 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
First step: Shmitty needs to be an indoor-only cat (in your house) from now on. You can start training him to accept a harness & leash to go outside and visit the neighbors under supervised conditions. You'd never reasonably let a dog with a history of biting wander unaccompanied, and neither should a bitey cat.
Second step: Take Shmitty to a vet or two for a thorough checkup, explaining specifically about his biting. It's possible he has chronic pain or specific sensitive spots that petting him triggers, making him bite defensively. It's also possible that he has anxiety/stress of some kind that medication (kitty Prozac, etc) can alleviate.
Weird step: It is very unusual for cats to bite without any provocation and without any warning. However, cats communicate mainly through body language, which can be easy for humans to misread or overlook. Consider filming Shmitty with a webcam, etc. when he's in situations that have led to biting in the past. He may be giving indications of discomfort and annoyance—ear and tail flicks, rippling skin, twitching whiskers—that are too subtle for you to have noticed as warnings.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:49 AM on June 16, 2013
Second step: Take Shmitty to a vet or two for a thorough checkup, explaining specifically about his biting. It's possible he has chronic pain or specific sensitive spots that petting him triggers, making him bite defensively. It's also possible that he has anxiety/stress of some kind that medication (kitty Prozac, etc) can alleviate.
Weird step: It is very unusual for cats to bite without any provocation and without any warning. However, cats communicate mainly through body language, which can be easy for humans to misread or overlook. Consider filming Shmitty with a webcam, etc. when he's in situations that have led to biting in the past. He may be giving indications of discomfort and annoyance—ear and tail flicks, rippling skin, twitching whiskers—that are too subtle for you to have noticed as warnings.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:49 AM on June 16, 2013
And you can totally train a cat (I've trained mine to high five!), but a lot of it is dependent on reading cat body language and adjusting yourself rather than expecting the cat to conform to you. "Adjusting yourself" means that you need to accept that your cat is a hunter and will always act like a hunter, not like a teddy bear.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:50 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:50 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
This sucks. One thing I do when my cat bites is grasp the back of her neck, you know the area where mom cats hold their kittens. This chills her out enough for me to disengage my arm from her mouth, preventing further damage. This damage control technique works for my cat, it might work for yours.
posted by superior julie at 9:51 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by superior julie at 9:51 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
What do we do about this cat? Warn the neighbors not to engage him? Surrender him to a shelter? What other options do we have?
Cat is an indoor-only cat as of this instant. Not only do you not let pets outside who are known to have behavior issues, but domestic cats kill between 1.4 and 3.7 billion birds each year in the contiguous United States. This isn't a big deal. Shmitty won't like it for the first few weeks and may indeed try to sneak out on occasion forever, but I've done this successfully with two formerly feral cats (who went from 100% outdoors to 100% indoors), it isn't tough.
I think to the neighbor you express concern and tell her the steps you're taking (Shmitty is now indoor-only). More broadly I agree with folks upthread that you should stop petting him unless people are willing to take the chance of getting bitten (you might put up a sign near the door for visitors - "Shmitty is very friendly and our favorite cat, but will occasionally bite people petting him. Pet at your own risk" - tongue in cheek but still informative).
But 100% indoor-only.
posted by arnicae at 9:53 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Cat is an indoor-only cat as of this instant. Not only do you not let pets outside who are known to have behavior issues, but domestic cats kill between 1.4 and 3.7 billion birds each year in the contiguous United States. This isn't a big deal. Shmitty won't like it for the first few weeks and may indeed try to sneak out on occasion forever, but I've done this successfully with two formerly feral cats (who went from 100% outdoors to 100% indoors), it isn't tough.
I think to the neighbor you express concern and tell her the steps you're taking (Shmitty is now indoor-only). More broadly I agree with folks upthread that you should stop petting him unless people are willing to take the chance of getting bitten (you might put up a sign near the door for visitors - "Shmitty is very friendly and our favorite cat, but will occasionally bite people petting him. Pet at your own risk" - tongue in cheek but still informative).
But 100% indoor-only.
posted by arnicae at 9:53 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you for the responses so far.
For clarification purposes: Shmitty will not be an indoor only cat. Our current lifestyle does not allow it. Our house is designed such that we ourselves live indoor/outdoor. We have dogs, kids and another cat. Keeping a him inside is not an option.
posted by Mr.Me at 10:14 AM on June 16, 2013
For clarification purposes: Shmitty will not be an indoor only cat. Our current lifestyle does not allow it. Our house is designed such that we ourselves live indoor/outdoor. We have dogs, kids and another cat. Keeping a him inside is not an option.
posted by Mr.Me at 10:14 AM on June 16, 2013
Relevant anecdata: my first cat as a child was a outdoor-only, bloody-minded Cat From Hell. In retrospect she really shouldn't have been allowed to live outside loose on the world, because my dad was the only person who could ever touch her without being viciously bitten or scratched, but my neighborhood was small enough that everyone just knew Touch Not the Hellcat. (Do not follow our example there.) My family didn't pet Hellcat, but we still had a relationship with her: she enjoyed sitting and watching us do human things and talk to her, and we enjoyed playing with her (from a distance) by throwing balls and waving fishing-pole toys, etc. We also got a second, more mellow cat to snuggle with.
It sounds like Shmitty isn't nearly as bad as my Hellcat. You can probably still share brief physical affectionate gestures like a chin scratch or a quick stroke. Just keep in mind that you can still have a family relationship with Shmitty that doesn't require lots of lengthy petting and cuddling.
posted by nicebookrack at 10:20 AM on June 16, 2013
It sounds like Shmitty isn't nearly as bad as my Hellcat. You can probably still share brief physical affectionate gestures like a chin scratch or a quick stroke. Just keep in mind that you can still have a family relationship with Shmitty that doesn't require lots of lengthy petting and cuddling.
posted by nicebookrack at 10:20 AM on June 16, 2013
If it's a matter of a dog/cat flap, there are automatic pet flaps that operate either with a collar or a microchip. And kids can definitely be taught not to let a pet out.
Really, it seems really ill advised to let out a cat who is a known biter. It's not that you can't ask people not to pet him--it's that you can't trust them to do so out of your sight. It's also possible that there are territorial issues coming into play here--agitation from other cats on Schmitty's territory, for instance.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:22 AM on June 16, 2013
Really, it seems really ill advised to let out a cat who is a known biter. It's not that you can't ask people not to pet him--it's that you can't trust them to do so out of your sight. It's also possible that there are territorial issues coming into play here--agitation from other cats on Schmitty's territory, for instance.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:22 AM on June 16, 2013
Then you must accept the very likely possibility that your cat will be taken away from you the next time he bites someone else and said bite requires more severe medical attention. You have a responsibility towards your cat, and towards others, to not put your cat in situations where it feel threatened enough to bite those around it, and if you cannot accept that responsibility, you are not equipped to be a proper owner and your cat will likely be rehomed by authorities or put down once someone presses charges after they get a serious infection. I have seen this happen, and it is traumatic and horrible. You are not immune to this, even if you believe your friends and family members would never report you.
I think at the very least you need to make your cat indoor only until you can get a better handle on how to read his behavior so you know when and why he bites.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 10:23 AM on June 16, 2013 [22 favorites]
I think at the very least you need to make your cat indoor only until you can get a better handle on how to read his behavior so you know when and why he bites.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 10:23 AM on June 16, 2013 [22 favorites]
Shmitty will not be an indoor only cat. Our current lifestyle does not allow it.
Then you need to give this cat to someone who can handle the responsibility. Apparently you are not taking your responsibilities seriously. 80% of cat bites result in serious infection. It can result in death. Your cat, as a known biter, is a threat to human life if it is allowed to be in public without restraint.
posted by JackFlash at 10:23 AM on June 16, 2013 [32 favorites]
Then you need to give this cat to someone who can handle the responsibility. Apparently you are not taking your responsibilities seriously. 80% of cat bites result in serious infection. It can result in death. Your cat, as a known biter, is a threat to human life if it is allowed to be in public without restraint.
posted by JackFlash at 10:23 AM on June 16, 2013 [32 favorites]
You are absolutely responsible (legally) if he bites someone else, and will be financially held to that if any authorities get involved. Can you afford that? Unless you can limit your cat's exposure to people by keeping him indoors, you need to figure out how to control who has access to him. IANAL. His history of biting will be held against you.
posted by annsunny at 10:31 AM on June 16, 2013
posted by annsunny at 10:31 AM on June 16, 2013
Assuming you want to keep your cat, and you need him to be an outdoor cat, I would recommend the following if you want to stay a well loved neighbor and responsible pet parent:
1. Inform everyone in the neighborhood that your outdoor cat bites and that they should do their best not to interact with him. Bring along a picture with you so everyone knows which outdoor cat you are talking about. Inform them that in the highly unlikely occasion your cat attacks them unprovoked (like runs across the street just to bite them or something) you will help out with any medical costs.
2. Keep a collar with a thorough ID tag on your cat. The ID tag should have your name, number and address. Here's why: Say some neighbor has a family reunion or something and one of their relations takes a walk with a child. The child, not knowing that you cat is an occasional biter, might run over and pet your cat. It is only fair that the parent of this hypothetical child be able to contact you so you can help with any injury your cat may have caused.
3. Become comfortable with the fact that if your cat becomes more aggressive with your neighbors, there may be repercussions for your family and/or for your cat. These may include financial penalties, the forcible removal of the cat from your family, or in a drastically unfortunate scenario, harm done to your cat. Please remember that neighbors and strangers bitten by your cat may not be as forgiving of him and as invested in him as you.
posted by donut_princess at 10:33 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
1. Inform everyone in the neighborhood that your outdoor cat bites and that they should do their best not to interact with him. Bring along a picture with you so everyone knows which outdoor cat you are talking about. Inform them that in the highly unlikely occasion your cat attacks them unprovoked (like runs across the street just to bite them or something) you will help out with any medical costs.
2. Keep a collar with a thorough ID tag on your cat. The ID tag should have your name, number and address. Here's why: Say some neighbor has a family reunion or something and one of their relations takes a walk with a child. The child, not knowing that you cat is an occasional biter, might run over and pet your cat. It is only fair that the parent of this hypothetical child be able to contact you so you can help with any injury your cat may have caused.
3. Become comfortable with the fact that if your cat becomes more aggressive with your neighbors, there may be repercussions for your family and/or for your cat. These may include financial penalties, the forcible removal of the cat from your family, or in a drastically unfortunate scenario, harm done to your cat. Please remember that neighbors and strangers bitten by your cat may not be as forgiving of him and as invested in him as you.
posted by donut_princess at 10:33 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
If keeping a known threat isolated indoors to prevent it from causing damage to other people is not an option for you, then being the owner of this cat is not an option for you. It is incredibly irresponsible of you to knowingly allow this to continue.
posted by elizardbits at 10:38 AM on June 16, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 10:38 AM on June 16, 2013 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: "It is incredibly irresponsible of you to knowingly allow this to continue."
For G*d's sake. That's why I'm asking the question!!
posted by Mr.Me at 10:42 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
For G*d's sake. That's why I'm asking the question!!
posted by Mr.Me at 10:42 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I understand your frustration, Mr.Me, but putting your neighbors (and those who might wander through your neighborhood) at risk is really irresponsible, and your other options--like surrendering him to a shelter--are really last-ditch resorts to be taken after you've tried intermediate steps of dealing with this problem, because a cat with a history of biting runs a high risk of being put down. And the first intermediate step is keeping him indoors. Yes, it might be an adjustment for your family, but sometimes we have to make these adjustments to be responsible pet owners. Think of it as a good lesson for the kids!
This is the show I mentioned; I'm not at all joking in that I think watching a few episodes will help you learn Schmitty's body language and other ways of managing his aggression. Jackson deals with aggression issues in kitties all the time. It's really not at all unusual.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:49 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
This is the show I mentioned; I'm not at all joking in that I think watching a few episodes will help you learn Schmitty's body language and other ways of managing his aggression. Jackson deals with aggression issues in kitties all the time. It's really not at all unusual.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:49 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Death penalty for pets that bite, period. I know that isn't very pc of me but that is the way it is. Your neighbor has the right to sue you for everything you have and demand the cat be put down. Put the cat down, pay for neighbor's medical bills, and consider this a lesson learned. If it had been me or my children bitten, the cat would have been killed on the spot and charges would have been filed against you, for knowingly allowing a biting cat to wander freely.
posted by myselfasme at 10:58 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by myselfasme at 10:58 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
If your cat bit me or mine, I'd call Animal Control and let them sort it out. Then I'd send you the hospital bill. Eventually, someone will react to your cat the way that I would. Or who knows, maybe they'd sue you. I can't imagine you'd rather run that risk, than you would finding a way to make sure the cat stays inside.
I have two cats who can be bitey under duress, and they neither of them go outdoors, ever. If you can't manage this, you have to rehome the cat.
posted by Coatlicue at 11:02 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have two cats who can be bitey under duress, and they neither of them go outdoors, ever. If you can't manage this, you have to rehome the cat.
posted by Coatlicue at 11:02 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Dogs that attack people are routinely put down. Has it not occurred to you that your cat is a public menace?
posted by Cranberry at 11:12 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Cranberry at 11:12 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I know this is a really difficult situation, but given that you can't prevent him from biting, you've only got a few options open to you, none of them ideal:
1. Schmitty becomes your indoor-only cat, whatever lifestyle changes that might require.
2. Schmitty becomes somebody else's indoor-only cat.
3. You accept that Schmitty will at some point become very expensive and/or prematurely dead.
It sucks, but these are your choices aside from bizzare and unkind measures like having his fangs pulled.
posted by jon1270 at 11:12 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
1. Schmitty becomes your indoor-only cat, whatever lifestyle changes that might require.
2. Schmitty becomes somebody else's indoor-only cat.
3. You accept that Schmitty will at some point become very expensive and/or prematurely dead.
It sucks, but these are your choices aside from bizzare and unkind measures like having his fangs pulled.
posted by jon1270 at 11:12 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Turn him out as a farm cat, maybe, with warning included.
I suppose if you could find someone who knew that he had seriously bitten your neighbor and was still willing to take him as an indoor only cat, that would work, but I think that's unlikely.
Otherwise you have to put him down. It's not quite as bad as a dog that bites running around loose, but it is not reasonable to expect all your neighbors to avoid petting a friendly seeming cat.
posted by mattu at 11:14 AM on June 16, 2013
I suppose if you could find someone who knew that he had seriously bitten your neighbor and was still willing to take him as an indoor only cat, that would work, but I think that's unlikely.
Otherwise you have to put him down. It's not quite as bad as a dog that bites running around loose, but it is not reasonable to expect all your neighbors to avoid petting a friendly seeming cat.
posted by mattu at 11:14 AM on June 16, 2013
I've lived with cats for 35+ of my 43 years on this planet. My parents had five Siamese when I was born (I joke that I obviously impressed on the wrong species at birth). I've had the experience of talking to a veterinarian and saying "No, really, Doc, I know cats well and I'm good at reading their body language and I'm telling you that since she was spayed she's started biting with no provocation and NO warning" and not being believed. I definitely sympathize with what you're dealing with.
The people who live with Shmitty and best know his body language have all been unable to avoid being bitten. Somebody who doesn't know him will have no chance.
In the situation you're dealing with, you have a limited number of choices.
posted by Lexica at 11:14 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
The people who live with Shmitty and best know his body language have all been unable to avoid being bitten. Somebody who doesn't know him will have no chance.
In the situation you're dealing with, you have a limited number of choices.
- Transition Shmitty to indoor-only, warn people who don't know him not to pet him, and all household residents accept that petting him means the possibility of injury.
- Allow him to remain indoor-outdoor and accept the certainty that he will bite somebody, which may well result in legal consequences for you that could cost you a lot of money and possibly result in him being killed by Animal Control.
- Rehome him with somebody who's willing to deal with the situation they have, not the situation they wish they had.
posted by Lexica at 11:14 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Allowing an aggressive animal to run around freely will result in someone calling animal control and Schmitty being euthanized. That's how it is.
Be honest - it's not that Schmitty cannot be your indoor cat, it's that you don't want to make the required changes because they would be inconvenient.
So, what's more important: Schmitty, or your convenience? Respond accordingly.
posted by zug at 11:17 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
Be honest - it's not that Schmitty cannot be your indoor cat, it's that you don't want to make the required changes because they would be inconvenient.
So, what's more important: Schmitty, or your convenience? Respond accordingly.
posted by zug at 11:17 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
My neighbor spent days in the hospital after her cat bit her. She had to have her cat, who she loved, euthanized. Sorry.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:25 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:25 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Shmitty will not be an indoor only cat. Our current lifestyle does not allow it.
Question: What do we do ... Surrender him to a shelter?
Sounds like you're aware that letting him continue to run free will likely have consequences and are already open to him not being part of your lives. I'd suggest finding him a new home where he will be able to be an indoor-only cat. If you're not able to do that, I'd suggest finding a no-kill shelter and offering them a significant donation when you drop of Shmitty, because he is going to have a tough time getting adopted from a shelter.
posted by arnicae at 11:37 AM on June 16, 2013
Question: What do we do ... Surrender him to a shelter?
Sounds like you're aware that letting him continue to run free will likely have consequences and are already open to him not being part of your lives. I'd suggest finding him a new home where he will be able to be an indoor-only cat. If you're not able to do that, I'd suggest finding a no-kill shelter and offering them a significant donation when you drop of Shmitty, because he is going to have a tough time getting adopted from a shelter.
posted by arnicae at 11:37 AM on June 16, 2013
I want to take issue with people saying this is just a cat being a cat. I've been around plenty of cats, including my own, who never once bit someone hard enough to break the skin. We're not talking about that thing cats do when they grab your arm with their mouth but don't press down, we're talking about serious bites here!
That is not a cats-being-cats thing, it is a serious problem. Cat bites are the real deal; I'd rather be bitten by a medium sized dog than a cat.
posted by Justinian at 11:38 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
That is not a cats-being-cats thing, it is a serious problem. Cat bites are the real deal; I'd rather be bitten by a medium sized dog than a cat.
posted by Justinian at 11:38 AM on June 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
Friends found a behaviorist after one of their cats bit the wife, unprovoked, hard enough through her trousers to send her to the doctor. They wound up getting some cat antidepressant medication that made a huge difference in the cat's behavior.
posted by gudrun at 11:59 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by gudrun at 11:59 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
You are ignoring the advice being given to you because it sounds like you think it's incovenient to adjust your lifestyle so that your cat becomes an indoor cat only. Which will be more inconvenient to you -- making the required changes so that your cat is indoor only, or making the payments you will have to make when someone sues you after your cat causes grevious injury?
You are not being pragmatic about this. We are giving you answers. They are largely the same across all of us responding. Listen to what you're being advised. You're being called irresponsible because you are ignoring the advice being given -- not because you asked the question in the first place.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 12:24 PM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
You are not being pragmatic about this. We are giving you answers. They are largely the same across all of us responding. Listen to what you're being advised. You're being called irresponsible because you are ignoring the advice being given -- not because you asked the question in the first place.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 12:24 PM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'm with the indoor cat people for all of the above reasons. If that's not an option, I suggest rehoming, although that will be difficult, unless you can find someone who is willing to let him become a farm cat.
You can try Prozac, but unless you see a significant change in behavior, you're walking a thin line here.
Note: Neighbors have a cat that has behavior similar to Shmitty. This cat bit their grandchild on the face at the time it was kept as an indoor pet several years ago. Cat is now relegated to the barn and not allowed to come near the house. Neighbors only feed cat in the barn, and have turned the hose near it, threw rocks near it, yelled and flapped things to keep it away from the house. The cat has taken the hint and does not allow people near it. He has food and shelter and seems to be smart enough to keep away from predators. Right now it's sunning himself on the tractor seat and appears to be content.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:46 PM on June 16, 2013
You can try Prozac, but unless you see a significant change in behavior, you're walking a thin line here.
Note: Neighbors have a cat that has behavior similar to Shmitty. This cat bit their grandchild on the face at the time it was kept as an indoor pet several years ago. Cat is now relegated to the barn and not allowed to come near the house. Neighbors only feed cat in the barn, and have turned the hose near it, threw rocks near it, yelled and flapped things to keep it away from the house. The cat has taken the hint and does not allow people near it. He has food and shelter and seems to be smart enough to keep away from predators. Right now it's sunning himself on the tractor seat and appears to be content.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:46 PM on June 16, 2013
We had a Siamese cat that we adored back when I was a kid. He was a bit of an ill tempered thing but very attached to me. When I left for college he started getting bitey. He bit my dad so bad on the hand that Dad required medical treatment.
I got a phone call asking my permission to put him to sleep. I reluctantly did so. The poor thing was a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I think you need to realize that whether you rehome this cat or figure out a way to keep him totally indoors or worst case scenario have him euthanized-that you cannot just let the kitty keep status quo. At the very least you need to put a call in to your vet, but I am telling you that a cat bite is a very serious thing and that particularly since your cat has a known history of biteyness, you have a very very big problem on your hands, potentially. In fact, scratch potentially, it's only a matter of time.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:48 PM on June 16, 2013
I got a phone call asking my permission to put him to sleep. I reluctantly did so. The poor thing was a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I think you need to realize that whether you rehome this cat or figure out a way to keep him totally indoors or worst case scenario have him euthanized-that you cannot just let the kitty keep status quo. At the very least you need to put a call in to your vet, but I am telling you that a cat bite is a very serious thing and that particularly since your cat has a known history of biteyness, you have a very very big problem on your hands, potentially. In fact, scratch potentially, it's only a matter of time.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:48 PM on June 16, 2013
It sounds like the OP is asking about training, medication, a little "dangerous kitty" outfit, whatever, and his frustration is coming from receiving no answers in that direction, which may be because there aren't solutions in that direction.
I know nothing about cats, but can you think of keeping him inside temporarily, hiring a behavioralist to assess him, and then taking the next steps? Break it down into smaller steps so you can really assess the situation and come up with solutions from that. It may be giving him up to an indoor home, it may be having him indoors in one part of the house with a cat patio built for him, an invisible fence, I don't know, but having someone who really knows cats meet him specifically and give their input might be a really good idea.
(That being said, the time to rehabilitate him would have been quite a few bites ago.)
posted by Vaike at 12:59 PM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
I know nothing about cats, but can you think of keeping him inside temporarily, hiring a behavioralist to assess him, and then taking the next steps? Break it down into smaller steps so you can really assess the situation and come up with solutions from that. It may be giving him up to an indoor home, it may be having him indoors in one part of the house with a cat patio built for him, an invisible fence, I don't know, but having someone who really knows cats meet him specifically and give their input might be a really good idea.
(That being said, the time to rehabilitate him would have been quite a few bites ago.)
posted by Vaike at 12:59 PM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
We have a once-feral cat who adopted us. He DOES NOT UNDERSTAND petting. He likes it, will push up against us to be petted, but when he's had enough, he doesn't know how to stop, or signal to us to stop, so he bites. And if smacked or grabbed by the neck he goes ballistic and attacks fiercely, despite the rather obvious size difference between him and us. Or.... he used to. These are the solutions that have worked for us:
1. With us, in the house: limited petting, always with attention, not just random rubs while doing something else. Any movement suggesting aggression towards us is met with VERY VERY LOUD yelling directly into his face. He'll fight back if hit, but puts his ears back and runs when yelled at. I usually yell "EXCUSE ME!!" But he has learned, and there's almost no bitey behavior anymore. But he can't be petted in the same way we pet our other two cats.
2. Outside: He loves to fall down at the feet of people outside, rolling over as if saying "Oh, please pet my tummy." We've talked to our neighbors, one of whom has two small children. At her suggestion, he's known to one and all as "Mr. Grumpy" and nobody tries to pet him, but they aren't scared of him, either. It seems he'll only do it to neighbors standing around, though; he won't do it to strange people who are just walking rapidly down the street.
BUT, all this works for us because he has to be touched to bite. If your cat attacks people randomly, then he has to be put down. As many others have said here, cat bites can be very very dangerous, involving trips to the ER and massive does of antibiotics. It's sad, and hard to make a decision like that, but he is your responsibility. Hoping nothing bad happens anymore is not an option.
Good luck.
posted by kestralwing at 1:43 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
1. With us, in the house: limited petting, always with attention, not just random rubs while doing something else. Any movement suggesting aggression towards us is met with VERY VERY LOUD yelling directly into his face. He'll fight back if hit, but puts his ears back and runs when yelled at. I usually yell "EXCUSE ME!!" But he has learned, and there's almost no bitey behavior anymore. But he can't be petted in the same way we pet our other two cats.
2. Outside: He loves to fall down at the feet of people outside, rolling over as if saying "Oh, please pet my tummy." We've talked to our neighbors, one of whom has two small children. At her suggestion, he's known to one and all as "Mr. Grumpy" and nobody tries to pet him, but they aren't scared of him, either. It seems he'll only do it to neighbors standing around, though; he won't do it to strange people who are just walking rapidly down the street.
BUT, all this works for us because he has to be touched to bite. If your cat attacks people randomly, then he has to be put down. As many others have said here, cat bites can be very very dangerous, involving trips to the ER and massive does of antibiotics. It's sad, and hard to make a decision like that, but he is your responsibility. Hoping nothing bad happens anymore is not an option.
Good luck.
posted by kestralwing at 1:43 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'd like to note that I'm coming at this as someone who is really tired of the "cats shouldn't ever be outdoor cats anyways!" People, and groaned expecting a bunch of that being front loaded on you without considering other options. I came in here preparing to try and be the "devils advocate" so to speak of other options that didn't involve having a non-outdoor cat.
I really expected some neighbor over-reacting to something like their kid poking the cat in the eye and getting bit.
Then I read the question.
I've dealt with animal control over someone who was trespassing in my house being bit by my roommates small-ish dog(like 35lbs). It was a goddamn nightmare that we only barely escaped because we were legally and technically in the right. It still caused a TON of stress and grief for us, and he threatened a civil suit that he probably could have won since he was a property owner with piles of money, and we were broke musicians and students.
If we had been in the wrong, we would have been fucked by the long dick of the law, and probably a civil suit as well. The dog would be dead and we would probably owe a lot of money.
You may think this will get taken less seriously by the authorities or the other person because its a cat and not a dog. That will last until they see the photos of the infected bite and the number of zeroes on the hospital bill. Then you'll see the number of zeroes on the judgement against you(decent used car territory+) and start contemplating suicide.
I completely understand not reasonably being able to change your life around to have an indoor only cat, and have it work, be fair to the cat, etc.
Mr. Bitey dog after a similar number of incidents, and then the one big one with the cops and animal control and such had to go live with my roommates mom in a rural part of another state. He's very happy, and gets to run around all over the place.
I think it's time for shmitty to move, honestly. He can be an outdoor cat in the middle of nowhere.
posted by emptythought at 4:14 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I really expected some neighbor over-reacting to something like their kid poking the cat in the eye and getting bit.
Then I read the question.
I've dealt with animal control over someone who was trespassing in my house being bit by my roommates small-ish dog(like 35lbs). It was a goddamn nightmare that we only barely escaped because we were legally and technically in the right. It still caused a TON of stress and grief for us, and he threatened a civil suit that he probably could have won since he was a property owner with piles of money, and we were broke musicians and students.
If we had been in the wrong, we would have been fucked by the long dick of the law, and probably a civil suit as well. The dog would be dead and we would probably owe a lot of money.
You may think this will get taken less seriously by the authorities or the other person because its a cat and not a dog. That will last until they see the photos of the infected bite and the number of zeroes on the hospital bill. Then you'll see the number of zeroes on the judgement against you(decent used car territory+) and start contemplating suicide.
I completely understand not reasonably being able to change your life around to have an indoor only cat, and have it work, be fair to the cat, etc.
Mr. Bitey dog after a similar number of incidents, and then the one big one with the cops and animal control and such had to go live with my roommates mom in a rural part of another state. He's very happy, and gets to run around all over the place.
I think it's time for shmitty to move, honestly. He can be an outdoor cat in the middle of nowhere.
posted by emptythought at 4:14 PM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm not going to touch the indoor-outdoor thing, since you have ruled that out anyway.
But one thing that might help somewhat is to get a big wide collar in a pale colour, and get a thick black marker and write a warning on it. Something like "CAT BITES: DON'T TOUCH". Make sure it is large enough that it is clearly visible. If the cat is long-haired, shave away some of the fur around the collar so it isn't obscured.
Also, try kitty prozac and Feliway plug-ins.
posted by lollusc at 2:34 AM on June 17, 2013
But one thing that might help somewhat is to get a big wide collar in a pale colour, and get a thick black marker and write a warning on it. Something like "CAT BITES: DON'T TOUCH". Make sure it is large enough that it is clearly visible. If the cat is long-haired, shave away some of the fur around the collar so it isn't obscured.
Also, try kitty prozac and Feliway plug-ins.
posted by lollusc at 2:34 AM on June 17, 2013
I will go against the grain here and say that, of our three cats, one of them sometimes bites enough to break the skin. I do not consider this a dire, terrifying thing that means she must be put down, and I'm fairly surprised that so many people do.
That said, she has bitten only me enough to break the skin because she is very scared of pretty much everybody else but me. She treats my husband mostly with indifference. A few friends who she has gotten used to have gotten snapped at, but not enough to break the skin. I have only had to seek medical attention once, and that was when I had to break up a fight between her and another cat. I never for a moment consider euthanasia in response to that--we have animals living in our house and sometimes they act like animals. Her biggest problem is aggression towards the other cats, honestly, with occasional lashing out at me in rage.
A few things that have helped her: She feels very secure on top of our cat tree, so when she starts communicating rage towards me or another cat with very clear body language, I grab her by her scruff and put her up there. If she jumps down and re-escalates whatever the situation was, I scruff her again and stick her in the bathroom until she is calmed down. This sequence seems to have eliminated 90% of the problem. I don't know that she is "trained" or anything, but we have something to do when she starts raging that keeps it from escalating to bloodshed.
As others have said, learn to recognize the change in Schmitty's body language that signals he's about to bite. Come up with a plan to respond to that, whether it's isolation like I do, or a spray bottle, or some other response. Once again, My Cat From Hell is actually a great resource for better understanding cat communication and what makes them feel safe.
Our other two cats are inside/outside (and I know how US MeFites feel about that). They are sweet and friendly and mostly sleep in our flower beds. Our neighbors rub them all the time. Our bitey cat stays inside because she is scared of everybody anyway. I doubt she would ever get close enough to anyone outside to bite them. But, if you were wondering if it's possible to have some cats who go out and one who doesn't, it's been very easy for us.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:56 AM on June 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
That said, she has bitten only me enough to break the skin because she is very scared of pretty much everybody else but me. She treats my husband mostly with indifference. A few friends who she has gotten used to have gotten snapped at, but not enough to break the skin. I have only had to seek medical attention once, and that was when I had to break up a fight between her and another cat. I never for a moment consider euthanasia in response to that--we have animals living in our house and sometimes they act like animals. Her biggest problem is aggression towards the other cats, honestly, with occasional lashing out at me in rage.
A few things that have helped her: She feels very secure on top of our cat tree, so when she starts communicating rage towards me or another cat with very clear body language, I grab her by her scruff and put her up there. If she jumps down and re-escalates whatever the situation was, I scruff her again and stick her in the bathroom until she is calmed down. This sequence seems to have eliminated 90% of the problem. I don't know that she is "trained" or anything, but we have something to do when she starts raging that keeps it from escalating to bloodshed.
As others have said, learn to recognize the change in Schmitty's body language that signals he's about to bite. Come up with a plan to respond to that, whether it's isolation like I do, or a spray bottle, or some other response. Once again, My Cat From Hell is actually a great resource for better understanding cat communication and what makes them feel safe.
Our other two cats are inside/outside (and I know how US MeFites feel about that). They are sweet and friendly and mostly sleep in our flower beds. Our neighbors rub them all the time. Our bitey cat stays inside because she is scared of everybody anyway. I doubt she would ever get close enough to anyone outside to bite them. But, if you were wondering if it's possible to have some cats who go out and one who doesn't, it's been very easy for us.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:56 AM on June 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
I feel your pain - I had pretty much the same cat until we recently had to euthenize him, not for biting but because of advanced age and renal failure. He bit. He'd bite my leg when I was asleep, breaking the skin, and he did this several times. He once bit my toddler son ON THE FOREHEAD and broke the skin. He'd bite for absolutely no reason we could figure out, and only sometimes would he arch his back and hiss before he struck. For many years I put myself at risk if I got out of the bed to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. He once bit my mother's leg while we sat quietly eating dinner. We thought many times about whether we should euthanize him, because face it -- it's the rare person who would adopt an adult cat who is a known biter. We knew it was either manage to live with him or euthanize him, and we chose to live with him.
We think his biting behavior was because of a traumatic kitten-hood, where he was terrorized by 3 relentless terriers in his first home. We think he had kittie PTSD. It probably would have been wise of us to consult the vet, and we certainly should have considered kittie meds, but as the years went on, and the kids got older, and we learned to anticipate some of his triggers (turn on a low light in the middle of the night) it became less of an issue. At the end - and he lived to be 21 - there were several years without biting. However, he never bit a neighbor or friend, nobody (except my son) ever got antibiotics. And he was a completely indoor cat.
Interesting factoid is that it is bites to the hand and forearm that doctors consider the most likely to become seriously infected. I know someone who was bitten when feeding a neighbor's cat while the neighbor was on vacation. She needed 5 days in the hospital and big-time antibiotics. It they'd not been good friends, I'm sure a lawyer would have been involved.
posted by citygirl at 9:34 AM on June 17, 2013
We think his biting behavior was because of a traumatic kitten-hood, where he was terrorized by 3 relentless terriers in his first home. We think he had kittie PTSD. It probably would have been wise of us to consult the vet, and we certainly should have considered kittie meds, but as the years went on, and the kids got older, and we learned to anticipate some of his triggers (turn on a low light in the middle of the night) it became less of an issue. At the end - and he lived to be 21 - there were several years without biting. However, he never bit a neighbor or friend, nobody (except my son) ever got antibiotics. And he was a completely indoor cat.
Interesting factoid is that it is bites to the hand and forearm that doctors consider the most likely to become seriously infected. I know someone who was bitten when feeding a neighbor's cat while the neighbor was on vacation. She needed 5 days in the hospital and big-time antibiotics. It they'd not been good friends, I'm sure a lawyer would have been involved.
posted by citygirl at 9:34 AM on June 17, 2013
Injuries caused by animals fall into an area of tort law called strict liability. There are virtually no defenses in strict-liability suits. You know that your cat has a vicious disposition, and you have a legal obligation to keep him away from the public. This is just as serious an obligation as our obligation not to drive drunk. If you can't keep him indoors, then he needs a new owner.
A friend's husband was bitten by their cat a couple years back. He got a blood infection (indicated by a red line, visually similar to a vein, that snaked up his arm) and required hospitalization. I know it sounds crazy that a 10-pound kitty can wreak that kind of damage, but animal bites can get serious and expensive. For both your neighbors' sake and your own, please do not keep this cat.
posted by cirocco at 12:09 PM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
A friend's husband was bitten by their cat a couple years back. He got a blood infection (indicated by a red line, visually similar to a vein, that snaked up his arm) and required hospitalization. I know it sounds crazy that a 10-pound kitty can wreak that kind of damage, but animal bites can get serious and expensive. For both your neighbors' sake and your own, please do not keep this cat.
posted by cirocco at 12:09 PM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I know lots of people that have cats just like this and putting the cat down has never been on the table. I even know someone who had to lock their cat behind a door when guests came.
Maybe it's because this is Canada and people are less litigious, but all that was needed was a healthy bit of warning
"My cat is an asshole, who will bite you if you pet him"
"The scratch my belly pose is a trap, don't fall for it!"
I'm not saying that you aren't liable, but just wanted to let you know that this is not as unusual as others have suggested. People have trouble understanding that pets are always cuddly and friendly, but they are wrong. Pets need to be accommodated.
That said, a veterinarian or behaviourist may be able to offer further solutions.
posted by Gor-ella at 12:54 PM on June 17, 2013
Maybe it's because this is Canada and people are less litigious, but all that was needed was a healthy bit of warning
"My cat is an asshole, who will bite you if you pet him"
"The scratch my belly pose is a trap, don't fall for it!"
I'm not saying that you aren't liable, but just wanted to let you know that this is not as unusual as others have suggested. People have trouble understanding that pets are always cuddly and friendly, but they are wrong. Pets need to be accommodated.
That said, a veterinarian or behaviourist may be able to offer further solutions.
posted by Gor-ella at 12:54 PM on June 17, 2013
Oh, and one thing i forgot to note but just occurred to me since it's come up repeatedly in this thread.
Signs, or a collar, or a vest on the cat with a sign or whatever will not help in any legal sense. We had a large sign at the front of our house saying "Beware of dog"(which had something funny like "No, but seriously" sharpie'd on) and had warned the guy not to enter the house not just because he wasn't allowed inside/on the premises but because the dog would bite him.
The only thing that saved us was the trespassing part. If you put a big collar or vest on the cat that says "CAT BITES DO NOT PET" you'll be fucked as soon as a 4 year old kid who can't really read gets bit by the cat, or even if someone gets bit in general and says they didn't see it or something. It won't be much of a defense at all.
IANAL, but any and all experience i've had with this, and i've tussled with this legal zone like 3 times, has shown me that this is as circocco pointed out a strict liability thing like drunk driving or statutory rape or something. If you end up in court pretty much the only question is going to be "Did this happen, yes or no" and when everyone agrees that yes, it happened, you will be boned.
I really implore you not to fuck around with cutesy solutions like that. It's one thing to keep the cat in your house and sometimes lock him in a back bedroom or something(NOTE: i've been around a bad outcome of that situation playing out too. A lady who was told not to go in a back room of the house went back there and got bit... once again, huge shitstorm. Not my dog but jesus). But really, trying to come up with some kind of warning sign and still letting the cat outside will eventually end very badly.
The possibility of it not causing trouble is so incredibly low, having already had this many incidents. It's like riding a motorcycle without a helmet or something, except that in this situation there's no alternative that allows the cat outside and still mitigates your risk.
I hope that you realize how bad this can get before there's a police car and an animal control truck parked outside your house, or before a process server bangs on your door. Not to even get in to how fucked up it is to subject someone to having to get bit, go to the hospital, etc. I'd be really mad if that happened to me, and feel completely righteous in my anger. And like 4000x so when i found out that i wasn't the only person who had been bit by the cat, and that you had continued to let the cat outside.
I rarely reply twice to AskMe's to emphasize and expand on my point unless i just forgot to write something at first. This is serious shit. As i said multiple times above, i've been on your side of this kind of thing before. You do not want to fuck around with this. I've run out of good analogies, but it can get so bad.
posted by emptythought at 1:15 PM on June 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
Signs, or a collar, or a vest on the cat with a sign or whatever will not help in any legal sense. We had a large sign at the front of our house saying "Beware of dog"(which had something funny like "No, but seriously" sharpie'd on) and had warned the guy not to enter the house not just because he wasn't allowed inside/on the premises but because the dog would bite him.
The only thing that saved us was the trespassing part. If you put a big collar or vest on the cat that says "CAT BITES DO NOT PET" you'll be fucked as soon as a 4 year old kid who can't really read gets bit by the cat, or even if someone gets bit in general and says they didn't see it or something. It won't be much of a defense at all.
IANAL, but any and all experience i've had with this, and i've tussled with this legal zone like 3 times, has shown me that this is as circocco pointed out a strict liability thing like drunk driving or statutory rape or something. If you end up in court pretty much the only question is going to be "Did this happen, yes or no" and when everyone agrees that yes, it happened, you will be boned.
I really implore you not to fuck around with cutesy solutions like that. It's one thing to keep the cat in your house and sometimes lock him in a back bedroom or something(NOTE: i've been around a bad outcome of that situation playing out too. A lady who was told not to go in a back room of the house went back there and got bit... once again, huge shitstorm. Not my dog but jesus). But really, trying to come up with some kind of warning sign and still letting the cat outside will eventually end very badly.
The possibility of it not causing trouble is so incredibly low, having already had this many incidents. It's like riding a motorcycle without a helmet or something, except that in this situation there's no alternative that allows the cat outside and still mitigates your risk.
I hope that you realize how bad this can get before there's a police car and an animal control truck parked outside your house, or before a process server bangs on your door. Not to even get in to how fucked up it is to subject someone to having to get bit, go to the hospital, etc. I'd be really mad if that happened to me, and feel completely righteous in my anger. And like 4000x so when i found out that i wasn't the only person who had been bit by the cat, and that you had continued to let the cat outside.
I rarely reply twice to AskMe's to emphasize and expand on my point unless i just forgot to write something at first. This is serious shit. As i said multiple times above, i've been on your side of this kind of thing before. You do not want to fuck around with this. I've run out of good analogies, but it can get so bad.
posted by emptythought at 1:15 PM on June 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
Shmitty's only problem is poor decision-making by humans. His first home had small children who likely hit him, stepped on him, squeezed him too tightly, yanked on his tail, carried him around uncomfortably and god knows what else. I would have bitten the kids, too. Don't get little kids a small, high-strung cat.
Unfortunately, Shmitty's second home isn't much better from his perspective. As the OP said, they have dogs, kids and another cat. For an already traumatized cat, his new home is way too "busy." It's like a three ring circus for a cat who needs peace and quiet. The poor cat is stuck in the fight or flight mode. He bit the neighbor lady because she was about to "drop" him and he would be physically hurt...again. It was just like old times, unfortunately.
Like all Siamese cats, Shmitty isn't cut out to roam the streets. He's a house cat who needs (deserves) to be treated like a king. He needs to be the ONLY pet in a home with adults. NO KIDS (other than perhaps mature teens). He needs to be able to nap, roam the house and go about his day being POSITIVE that nobody will hurt him. Let him be the master of his domain and his problems will disappear in time.
All Shmitty needs a new home -- an APPROPRIATE one finally. A no-kill cat rescue group can probably find him one. Tell the group what his problems are and they will tell potential adoptive parents the same thing. I've seen plenty of ads for pets who need a new home with lots of TLC where s/he is an "only child." Shmitty would love being part of the stereotypical lesbian and a cat duo. Unfortunately, my landlord objects to pets. :)
My parents had several siamese cats over the years, when I was growing up and even after the kids left home. One of our cats came from a home like Shmitty's first. She turned out fine.They ALL turned out to be great pets. Each was the "only child," except when my widowed father (not a cuddly parent by any stretch of the imagination) went wild and bought three Siamese kittens together. He said that he didn't want to break up the family!
All of our cats were loved to pieces. My mother, especially, treated them like princesses. Case in point: she would occasionally cook a turkey ONLY because the cat liked it...not because the rest of us might want might want a turkey dinner. You get the point.
The moral of the story is Smitty isn't a weapon of mass destruction or a tort looking for a place to happen (geesh, lighten up emptythought). He deserves a good home. Get him one.
posted by bim at 9:29 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, Shmitty's second home isn't much better from his perspective. As the OP said, they have dogs, kids and another cat. For an already traumatized cat, his new home is way too "busy." It's like a three ring circus for a cat who needs peace and quiet. The poor cat is stuck in the fight or flight mode. He bit the neighbor lady because she was about to "drop" him and he would be physically hurt...again. It was just like old times, unfortunately.
Like all Siamese cats, Shmitty isn't cut out to roam the streets. He's a house cat who needs (deserves) to be treated like a king. He needs to be the ONLY pet in a home with adults. NO KIDS (other than perhaps mature teens). He needs to be able to nap, roam the house and go about his day being POSITIVE that nobody will hurt him. Let him be the master of his domain and his problems will disappear in time.
All Shmitty needs a new home -- an APPROPRIATE one finally. A no-kill cat rescue group can probably find him one. Tell the group what his problems are and they will tell potential adoptive parents the same thing. I've seen plenty of ads for pets who need a new home with lots of TLC where s/he is an "only child." Shmitty would love being part of the stereotypical lesbian and a cat duo. Unfortunately, my landlord objects to pets. :)
My parents had several siamese cats over the years, when I was growing up and even after the kids left home. One of our cats came from a home like Shmitty's first. She turned out fine.They ALL turned out to be great pets. Each was the "only child," except when my widowed father (not a cuddly parent by any stretch of the imagination) went wild and bought three Siamese kittens together. He said that he didn't want to break up the family!
All of our cats were loved to pieces. My mother, especially, treated them like princesses. Case in point: she would occasionally cook a turkey ONLY because the cat liked it...not because the rest of us might want might want a turkey dinner. You get the point.
The moral of the story is Smitty isn't a weapon of mass destruction or a tort looking for a place to happen (geesh, lighten up emptythought). He deserves a good home. Get him one.
posted by bim at 9:29 AM on June 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
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posted by Raichle at 9:39 AM on June 16, 2013