It's almost more like acquantances with benefits?
June 15, 2013 8:28 PM Subscribe
How should I talk to a friend I slept with about what the hell is going on?
Howdy. I'm a straight male, and drank a whole bunch with two straight female friends of mine the other night. During this time, they were teasing me about how I haven't sex in a long time and that I need to just relax about the situation and have fun with someone. I walked one girl home to her house and she grabbed me, took me inside and we had sex. It was pretty fun, and hey, one time drunken sex doesn't necessarily mean anything.
However, a few days ago, She invited me out with some friends. I came out, and and again we ended up at her house having sex. She's always been physically affectionate towards me, and I've always enjoyed her company, but I can't imagine actually dating her. We have little in common and run out of things to say pretty quickly, our senses of humor don't really jive, and in general she's not what I'm looking for in a partner.
She's complained about how she finds guys to hang out or have sex with but who don't want to be in a relationship with her, so I sure as hell don't want to be one of those guys and reinforce that idea, but as things stand that's who I am. Maybe she's totally cool with just being FWB sort of a thing, but I don't know that, and need to figure out what she is looking for/thinks this is before I go on with this.
Do you have any suggestions on how to do this? I've never been in a situation like this before, but I get a sense she's hoping for more from this situation than I am.
Halp?
Howdy. I'm a straight male, and drank a whole bunch with two straight female friends of mine the other night. During this time, they were teasing me about how I haven't sex in a long time and that I need to just relax about the situation and have fun with someone. I walked one girl home to her house and she grabbed me, took me inside and we had sex. It was pretty fun, and hey, one time drunken sex doesn't necessarily mean anything.
However, a few days ago, She invited me out with some friends. I came out, and and again we ended up at her house having sex. She's always been physically affectionate towards me, and I've always enjoyed her company, but I can't imagine actually dating her. We have little in common and run out of things to say pretty quickly, our senses of humor don't really jive, and in general she's not what I'm looking for in a partner.
She's complained about how she finds guys to hang out or have sex with but who don't want to be in a relationship with her, so I sure as hell don't want to be one of those guys and reinforce that idea, but as things stand that's who I am. Maybe she's totally cool with just being FWB sort of a thing, but I don't know that, and need to figure out what she is looking for/thinks this is before I go on with this.
Do you have any suggestions on how to do this? I've never been in a situation like this before, but I get a sense she's hoping for more from this situation than I am.
Halp?
Xingcat has it. I would also add, "I'm also really worried because you told me once that you got disappointed in guys who just want to have sex with you and don't want to date you; I really don't want to end up with you saying I'm like those guys. So I need to know that you really are cool with just being fwb, otherwise I think we should stop."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:35 PM on June 15, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:35 PM on June 15, 2013 [9 favorites]
All of the above. Now, maybe, just maybe, you will be lucky and it will turn out that the stuff about "just relax about the situation and have fun with someone" was meant in earnest. But, regardless, you have to have that conversation. And there are no magic words that will guarantee no hard feelings if your intuition that she's hoping for something more proves correct. The best you can do is be forthright and kind, and xingcat and Empress have some good pointers.
The only thing I will add is this: in an effort to be kind, do not be ambiguous in any way. It would really suck to log in and see the other side of this on AskMeFi in a couple of days: "So, I ended up in bed with this friend of mine TWO TIMES in the last few days, and it seemed like we were both really having fun, but then we had this awkward conversation about it, and what do you think he meant by X, Y and Z...?"
posted by fikri at 9:48 PM on June 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
The only thing I will add is this: in an effort to be kind, do not be ambiguous in any way. It would really suck to log in and see the other side of this on AskMeFi in a couple of days: "So, I ended up in bed with this friend of mine TWO TIMES in the last few days, and it seemed like we were both really having fun, but then we had this awkward conversation about it, and what do you think he meant by X, Y and Z...?"
posted by fikri at 9:48 PM on June 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
How should I talk to a friend I slept with about what the hell is going on?
You don't actually need help with this. Remove the word "how" and that's your real question. And the answer is probably yes.
She's complained about how she finds guys to hang out or have sex with but who don't want to be in a relationship with her
Shocking. This is a wonderful way for her to communicate an expectation without actually communicating it. Yeah, it's totally hard to find guys that that only want to have sex when you invite them over to only have sex. Expecting some kind of healthy relationship to spring out of that.
This person sounds like they are capable of really losing it on you, and deep down I doubt they really want to be your FWB. Tread carefully and be really polite.
posted by phaedon at 10:00 PM on June 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
You don't actually need help with this. Remove the word "how" and that's your real question. And the answer is probably yes.
She's complained about how she finds guys to hang out or have sex with but who don't want to be in a relationship with her
Shocking. This is a wonderful way for her to communicate an expectation without actually communicating it. Yeah, it's totally hard to find guys that that only want to have sex when you invite them over to only have sex. Expecting some kind of healthy relationship to spring out of that.
This person sounds like they are capable of really losing it on you, and deep down I doubt they really want to be your FWB. Tread carefully and be really polite.
posted by phaedon at 10:00 PM on June 15, 2013 [6 favorites]
She's complained about how she finds guys to hang out or have sex with but who don't want to be in a relationship with her, so I sure as hell don't want to be one of those guys and reinforce that idea, but as things stand that's who I am. Maybe she's totally cool with just being FWB sort of a thing, but I don't know that, and need to figure out what she is looking for/thinks this is before I go on with this.
I doubt she is, and i really think you're being set up to fail here. Intentionally or not, she's not walking what she was talking by inviting you in to well... That situation.
The issue here is that there's a lot of people who seem to have a "Doctor, it hurts my arm when i move it like this" type of problem with this sort of thing. The answer, obviously, is "Then stop doing that". People ignore signs, and even blatant statements.
I think you should talk to her, but i also don't think you bare any blame after that for being "one of those assholes" if she keeps coming on to you after that talk, then later blows up at you for just "being another guy like that". She's an adult, and she's creating situations she'll be unhappy with.
Oh, and if your concern here is that you'll fuck up something cool by bringing this up, i can say from experience that's almost never true. I would however place a good bet on her continuing to do exactly what she's doing and then getting upset later when you don't slowly drift in to liking her more and dating though. By which i mean, she'll go along with this in hopes that your mind will change later even if you say it won't.
Which once again, is not your problem at all. Be upfront, and if she doesn't take it at face value then it's not your problem. I'd be willing to bet at least one of those guys she was crapping on had this exact conversation with her before.
I absolutely agree that "This person sounds like they are capable of really losing it on you" but i'm coming at it from a more "prepare to wash your hands of the situation if that happens" point of view. This is like serving someone a meal they hate, and not knowing because they claimed to like it... Then them later coming back and yelling at you for misleading them or forcing them to eat it. By which i mean: flipping out on you for doing exactly what you said you'd do is not rational behavior. Ignore it.
I realize i may be looking two curves ahead on the road here and counting some unhatched chickens, but this scenario is imminently familiar to me as a guy in his early 20s with a large incestous friend group who has seen this same scenario play out like a tired tv sitcom script way too many times. This is probably why i have such a "state your intentions, and arm your not giving a fuck canon" attitude. Especially the preroll with the woe is me about other guys just strikes me as tired drama llama shit in the making.
posted by emptythought at 2:47 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I doubt she is, and i really think you're being set up to fail here. Intentionally or not, she's not walking what she was talking by inviting you in to well... That situation.
The issue here is that there's a lot of people who seem to have a "Doctor, it hurts my arm when i move it like this" type of problem with this sort of thing. The answer, obviously, is "Then stop doing that". People ignore signs, and even blatant statements.
I think you should talk to her, but i also don't think you bare any blame after that for being "one of those assholes" if she keeps coming on to you after that talk, then later blows up at you for just "being another guy like that". She's an adult, and she's creating situations she'll be unhappy with.
Oh, and if your concern here is that you'll fuck up something cool by bringing this up, i can say from experience that's almost never true. I would however place a good bet on her continuing to do exactly what she's doing and then getting upset later when you don't slowly drift in to liking her more and dating though. By which i mean, she'll go along with this in hopes that your mind will change later even if you say it won't.
Which once again, is not your problem at all. Be upfront, and if she doesn't take it at face value then it's not your problem. I'd be willing to bet at least one of those guys she was crapping on had this exact conversation with her before.
I absolutely agree that "This person sounds like they are capable of really losing it on you" but i'm coming at it from a more "prepare to wash your hands of the situation if that happens" point of view. This is like serving someone a meal they hate, and not knowing because they claimed to like it... Then them later coming back and yelling at you for misleading them or forcing them to eat it. By which i mean: flipping out on you for doing exactly what you said you'd do is not rational behavior. Ignore it.
I realize i may be looking two curves ahead on the road here and counting some unhatched chickens, but this scenario is imminently familiar to me as a guy in his early 20s with a large incestous friend group who has seen this same scenario play out like a tired tv sitcom script way too many times. This is probably why i have such a "state your intentions, and arm your not giving a fuck canon" attitude. Especially the preroll with the woe is me about other guys just strikes me as tired drama llama shit in the making.
posted by emptythought at 2:47 AM on June 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds like she is looking for a relationship, but has no idea how to begin one. It also doesn't really look like she knows what she wants, or what kind of signals she is giving.
An insecure woman with confused notions of how to get and keep love.
How about you just stop sleeping with her. And if you really care about her as a friend, make it clear to her you're not interested in a relationship and then be a friend while she gets over it. It'll be awkward but if you manage to get over the awkwardness while remaining friendly, but clear and consistent in your message - "I'm not interested in you that way" - she'll probably get it eventually and it probably won't hurt her as much as breaking all contact.
If she thinks "men only want to sleep with her", you could be the one man who'd rather get to know her better as a person/platonic friend than continue sleeping with her.
If you care enough about her. If you don't (which is perfectly legitimate), I think you should feel no guilt about "washing your hands of it" like emptythought suggests above.
posted by ipsative at 3:28 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
An insecure woman with confused notions of how to get and keep love.
How about you just stop sleeping with her. And if you really care about her as a friend, make it clear to her you're not interested in a relationship and then be a friend while she gets over it. It'll be awkward but if you manage to get over the awkwardness while remaining friendly, but clear and consistent in your message - "I'm not interested in you that way" - she'll probably get it eventually and it probably won't hurt her as much as breaking all contact.
If she thinks "men only want to sleep with her", you could be the one man who'd rather get to know her better as a person/platonic friend than continue sleeping with her.
If you care enough about her. If you don't (which is perfectly legitimate), I think you should feel no guilt about "washing your hands of it" like emptythought suggests above.
posted by ipsative at 3:28 AM on June 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
She's complained about how she finds guys to hang out or have sex with but who don't want to be in a relationship with her, so I sure as hell don't want to be one of those guys and reinforce that idea, but as things stand that's who I am.
Based on the very limited info given, I would be inclined to sit her down, explain what you said here about this not being relationship material and very nicely try to find out how conscious she is of how she is aggressively pursuing you and nicely give her some constructive feedback on the "Well, there's your problem" piece of this.
I am female. I am perfectly okay with hitting on a guy. But my experiences with doing that make me feel it is trickier for a girl to do that. Some men are okay with me initiating, but I also often get hugely negative reactions (a la talking to him one time makes me a dangerous psychotic stalker). I strongly suspect the drunken sex was merely a ploy on her part to try to initiate a relationship (women tend to be more relationship oriented than men and her follow up behavior does not fit with the idea that she had throw away one time sex in mind, really). And it sounds like she expects you to keep saying "yes" based on precedent, which is a hugely common relationship pattern. Guess what: So far, you are doing exactly that.
You need to stop saying "yes" to this girl. She is looking for a relationship to you and the more you sleep with her, the worse your problem will be. She plays pretty fast and loose with consent. She is unlikely to respect your boundaries. If you can help cast light on her issue and help her figure out how to solve it, great! But her behavior sounds pretty damn predatory to me so it is possible that backing out slowly and protecting yourself is as good as it will get.
posted by Michele in California at 5:03 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Based on the very limited info given, I would be inclined to sit her down, explain what you said here about this not being relationship material and very nicely try to find out how conscious she is of how she is aggressively pursuing you and nicely give her some constructive feedback on the "Well, there's your problem" piece of this.
I am female. I am perfectly okay with hitting on a guy. But my experiences with doing that make me feel it is trickier for a girl to do that. Some men are okay with me initiating, but I also often get hugely negative reactions (a la talking to him one time makes me a dangerous psychotic stalker). I strongly suspect the drunken sex was merely a ploy on her part to try to initiate a relationship (women tend to be more relationship oriented than men and her follow up behavior does not fit with the idea that she had throw away one time sex in mind, really). And it sounds like she expects you to keep saying "yes" based on precedent, which is a hugely common relationship pattern. Guess what: So far, you are doing exactly that.
You need to stop saying "yes" to this girl. She is looking for a relationship to you and the more you sleep with her, the worse your problem will be. She plays pretty fast and loose with consent. She is unlikely to respect your boundaries. If you can help cast light on her issue and help her figure out how to solve it, great! But her behavior sounds pretty damn predatory to me so it is possible that backing out slowly and protecting yourself is as good as it will get.
posted by Michele in California at 5:03 AM on June 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I give it about a 99% chance she is after some kind of relationship with you. And she is not being particularly honest or upfront about that. This:
they were teasing me about how I haven't sex in a long time and that I need to just relax about the situation and have fun with someone
just doesn't jibe with this:
She's complained about how she finds guys to hang out or have sex with but who don't want to be in a relationship with her
Don't have sex with her again until you've had a proper conversation about what your expectations are. And be prepared for head games on her part, because honest and direct communication doesn't seem to be her strong suit.
posted by Broseph at 5:31 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
they were teasing me about how I haven't sex in a long time and that I need to just relax about the situation and have fun with someone
just doesn't jibe with this:
She's complained about how she finds guys to hang out or have sex with but who don't want to be in a relationship with her
Don't have sex with her again until you've had a proper conversation about what your expectations are. And be prepared for head games on her part, because honest and direct communication doesn't seem to be her strong suit.
posted by Broseph at 5:31 AM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
The convo shouldn't set her up as the "person who wants X"
Just ask her what's going on. She's really into you if she says she was 'goofing off and figured she'd let things take their own path and see what happens from there' or some similar thing.
If it was just sex, she'll say 'sex with you is fun.'
Don't preclude anything on your end. Who knows?
posted by Ironmouth at 7:28 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Just ask her what's going on. She's really into you if she says she was 'goofing off and figured she'd let things take their own path and see what happens from there' or some similar thing.
If it was just sex, she'll say 'sex with you is fun.'
Don't preclude anything on your end. Who knows?
posted by Ironmouth at 7:28 AM on June 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
She's complained about how she finds guys to hang out or have sex with but who don't want to be in a relationship with her
If your experience with her is any indication of her usual methods (you *don't* believe you're the only guy she's done this with, right?), she's going to "find" a lot more guys interested in casual sex than a relationship. That's not anything you can (or should) fix.
so I sure as hell don't want to be one of those guys and reinforce that idea, but as things stand that's who I am.
Then you might have only two choices: continue as FWBs, with clear boundaries set AND adhered to, or telling her, "We can't sleep together again, because then I'll be another one of those guys who wants to have sex but not a relationship."
From experience, though, I'd say that either way, the odds that you'll get no-strings-attached sex with her, without her ending up heartbroken or angry at you at some point, are probably slim. Her desire to be in a relationship--as wrong-headed as her tactics might be in pursuing one--won't diminish as you spend more time together, even if it's just for sex. Are you prepared to be the bad guy, insisting on adherence to the boundaries you set when she tries to cross them? Would you be comfortable having to defend why you can't see that you two "obviously" have a connection beyond the physical? Do you want to deal with her lamenting the fact that it's such a shame that you're just another one of *those* guys who only want sex?
If your answer to those questions is "No," then I'd forget about pursuing a FWB angle with her. There are plenty of women who are able to handle a FWB arrangement--find one of those instead.
posted by Rykey at 3:28 PM on June 16, 2013
If your experience with her is any indication of her usual methods (you *don't* believe you're the only guy she's done this with, right?), she's going to "find" a lot more guys interested in casual sex than a relationship. That's not anything you can (or should) fix.
so I sure as hell don't want to be one of those guys and reinforce that idea, but as things stand that's who I am.
Then you might have only two choices: continue as FWBs, with clear boundaries set AND adhered to, or telling her, "We can't sleep together again, because then I'll be another one of those guys who wants to have sex but not a relationship."
From experience, though, I'd say that either way, the odds that you'll get no-strings-attached sex with her, without her ending up heartbroken or angry at you at some point, are probably slim. Her desire to be in a relationship--as wrong-headed as her tactics might be in pursuing one--won't diminish as you spend more time together, even if it's just for sex. Are you prepared to be the bad guy, insisting on adherence to the boundaries you set when she tries to cross them? Would you be comfortable having to defend why you can't see that you two "obviously" have a connection beyond the physical? Do you want to deal with her lamenting the fact that it's such a shame that you're just another one of *those* guys who only want sex?
If your answer to those questions is "No," then I'd forget about pursuing a FWB angle with her. There are plenty of women who are able to handle a FWB arrangement--find one of those instead.
posted by Rykey at 3:28 PM on June 16, 2013
Best answer: A lot of people are letting the OP a little off the hook here. How many answers here have begun with "we were drunk and hooked up" and ended in "reader, I married him"? Were they setting snares for each other? The "usual methods" here are the usual methods for a lot of people who actually do end up in healthy relationships; she isn't doing anything wrong that hasn't been right for lots of people. It does not make a woman a slut or crazy to want to have sex with her crush, or to initiate that sex. It does not make a woman irrational or a potential bunny-boiler to think a guy who's been intimate with her more than once might like her.
I guess what strikes me is how the OP is phrased: "she grabbed me, took me inside and we had sex"; "we ended up at her house having sex." Like it wasn't OP's decision at all, you two were just bro-ing down and suddenly she pulls some sex on you. I guess this is where the "she plays fast and loose with consent" part comes in -- but unless there's a lot more to the story you're not mentioning, she's not. She chose to have sex with you -- and you chose to have sex with her, knowing there was a power imbalance. It isn't hard not to have sex with someone; you literally have to do nothing. And there were lots of points you could have backed out or clarified things: the conversation over drinks, the after-conversation, the point you decided to walk her home (I'm not trying to argue any "she was asking for it" bullshit, but if you walk a girl home after you've had a "you need to get laid and have some fun!" exchange it sends a certain message), the point where you were kissing, the point the sex was happening, the point after the sex, the morning after, the time she invited you out again, the point all of these happened again. And at all those points, you carried on, knowing there was a good chance you'd hurt her. That's taking advantage of her. You may not have wanted to be that person, but now you are that person, because you have made yourself that person.
As for how to get out of this situation, you've kind of made your own bed at this point, sorry. You aren't going to get out of this not looking like a jerk, and from her perspective she'd probably be justified in thinking you are. But there are ways to be less of a jerk: don't suddenly stop talking to her; don't cut her out of your life (or your and her friend circle!); probably don't gossip to friends about her, and definitely don't bad-mouth her; ABSOLUTELY don't sleep with her again; and in the future if you don't want to date a friend and don't know for sure she's down with FWB, keep it in your pants.
posted by dekathelon at 11:41 PM on June 16, 2013 [10 favorites]
I guess what strikes me is how the OP is phrased: "she grabbed me, took me inside and we had sex"; "we ended up at her house having sex." Like it wasn't OP's decision at all, you two were just bro-ing down and suddenly she pulls some sex on you. I guess this is where the "she plays fast and loose with consent" part comes in -- but unless there's a lot more to the story you're not mentioning, she's not. She chose to have sex with you -- and you chose to have sex with her, knowing there was a power imbalance. It isn't hard not to have sex with someone; you literally have to do nothing. And there were lots of points you could have backed out or clarified things: the conversation over drinks, the after-conversation, the point you decided to walk her home (I'm not trying to argue any "she was asking for it" bullshit, but if you walk a girl home after you've had a "you need to get laid and have some fun!" exchange it sends a certain message), the point where you were kissing, the point the sex was happening, the point after the sex, the morning after, the time she invited you out again, the point all of these happened again. And at all those points, you carried on, knowing there was a good chance you'd hurt her. That's taking advantage of her. You may not have wanted to be that person, but now you are that person, because you have made yourself that person.
As for how to get out of this situation, you've kind of made your own bed at this point, sorry. You aren't going to get out of this not looking like a jerk, and from her perspective she'd probably be justified in thinking you are. But there are ways to be less of a jerk: don't suddenly stop talking to her; don't cut her out of your life (or your and her friend circle!); probably don't gossip to friends about her, and definitely don't bad-mouth her; ABSOLUTELY don't sleep with her again; and in the future if you don't want to date a friend and don't know for sure she's down with FWB, keep it in your pants.
posted by dekathelon at 11:41 PM on June 16, 2013 [10 favorites]
Just for clarity's sake:
I think she "plays fast and loose with consent" because she was pressuring a drunk person to sleep with her and because her follow-up behavior strikes me as bait-and-switch in that she offered one-time, no-strings-attached sex and now seems to think she has him on the hook and is reeling him in.
I am well aware that an awful lot of first-time sex occurs under the influence of alcohol. I am a stickler for consent and being drunk means you aren't really in good condition for giving genuine consent. So my personal standard is "if I have to be drunk to consent to sex with this person, I have no business sleeping with them."
I know that's not politically correct. I am not going to apologize for my extremely conservative view of the matter. But I am putting my reasoning out there so folks who think it is NBD to start a relationship under the influence of alcohol can now appropriately discount my biased assessment.
Thanks.
posted by Michele in California at 12:46 AM on June 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think she "plays fast and loose with consent" because she was pressuring a drunk person to sleep with her and because her follow-up behavior strikes me as bait-and-switch in that she offered one-time, no-strings-attached sex and now seems to think she has him on the hook and is reeling him in.
I am well aware that an awful lot of first-time sex occurs under the influence of alcohol. I am a stickler for consent and being drunk means you aren't really in good condition for giving genuine consent. So my personal standard is "if I have to be drunk to consent to sex with this person, I have no business sleeping with them."
I know that's not politically correct. I am not going to apologize for my extremely conservative view of the matter. But I am putting my reasoning out there so folks who think it is NBD to start a relationship under the influence of alcohol can now appropriately discount my biased assessment.
Thanks.
posted by Michele in California at 12:46 AM on June 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
…knowing there was a good chance you'd hurt her. That's taking advantage of her.
I agree, but only if he really knew what would happen, and that comes with experience. She could also have been better at guessing where he stood had she had more experience. (And for all we know, maybe she knows how he feels and is fine with it.) Also, sometimes the power imbalance is only clear after the fact, and other times the power changes places when a relationship becomes physical. So, experience can't totally drown out the mystery of the moment.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 12:40 AM on June 18, 2013
I agree, but only if he really knew what would happen, and that comes with experience. She could also have been better at guessing where he stood had she had more experience. (And for all we know, maybe she knows how he feels and is fine with it.) Also, sometimes the power imbalance is only clear after the fact, and other times the power changes places when a relationship becomes physical. So, experience can't totally drown out the mystery of the moment.
posted by esprit de l'escalier at 12:40 AM on June 18, 2013
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posted by xingcat at 8:31 PM on June 15, 2013 [16 favorites]