Get Me Off this Runaway Brain Train

June 12, 2013 7:15 AM

Please give us some perfectly logical explanations for the activity going on next door.

Every day there are 10-15 cars that come by. Sometimes the sames ones, other times they are ones I have never seen. Passenger hops out, sometimes leaving the car running, goes inside for a minute or two then leaves. There are 2 cars in particular that are significantly nicer that what you tend to see in this neighborhood, especially at this house. Two scenarios always play out. Either they pull up and leave the car running, grab a bag from the trunk, go inside for a minute, put the bag back in the trunk, then leave. The other scenario is that the car pulls up, honks the horn, neighbor comes out with money in hand, slips their hand in to the driver's side window while chatting for a second, then puts something in their pocket and goes back in the house.
There are also other cars that come by and stay for an hour or two. I know what it seems like is going on over there, but I want to hear some logical, less nefarious scenarios that might be going on.
Yes, I am being nosey, but the chair where I feed our little one is right in front of the window and the houses are close together, so I tend to see everything during the day. That, and all the honking, loud bass in the cars, people that turn around in our driveway, start walking up to our house then realize they have the wrong house, or park in front of our house kind of draws attention to the activity. They have a 13 year old kid and the activity dwindles down (not completely) after the kid comes home from school. It has been going on for a couple of years and picks up and slows down from time to time.
I really don't want to believe that there could be something illegal and potentially dangerous going on. There has to be another more boring explanation than my over active imagination is creating.

posted by MayNicholas to Society & Culture (36 answers total)

My first thought was drug deal. This is how it happened when I saw one in Winnipeg, but it involved 2-3 cars, several people, and constant swapping of bags and people between cars. Broad daylight in a parking lot. By the time we left, the cops were arriving.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:21 AM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

Nope, I think you've got it right.
posted by woodvine at 7:23 AM on June 12, 2013 [13 favorites]

Yeah, this screams drug dealing to me. My only other thought is that if the bags are big it could be something like baby formula/Tide.
posted by troika at 7:26 AM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

Having lived in places where this wasn't an uncommon situation and in houses where this was just part of life...

...you've got yourself some drug dealers.

The hard part is deciding what to do about it.

If you decide to involve the authorities, call CPS before you call the cops, because the police approach to houses with drugs in them is not infrequently lethal to children, even if they know they are there. If your CPS isn't too overwhelmed, they can set up an infrastructure for recovery of the minor while engaging the other authorities appropriately.
posted by batmonkey at 7:27 AM on June 12, 2013 [6 favorites]

Response by poster: Bag in question is always a backpack.
posted by MayNicholas at 7:27 AM on June 12, 2013

Drugs.

If you watch for a week and (surreptitiously) take down information such as plates and vehicle descriptions, times of arrival and departure and any interactions observed, then bring that log in to the police they ought to be pretty interested. Make an appointment to make a report at the station, you don't want cops parked outside your house.
posted by kavasa at 7:37 AM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

There's a chance that it's merely illicit activity that isn't necessarily illegal in and of itself (e.g., selling things-that-aren't-drugs without a business license). But that's for the police to figure out. Follow batmonkey's suggestion, preferably after making plans to spend the rest of the day elsewhere with the little one.
posted by Etrigan at 7:39 AM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

It is not uncommon for drug dealers (in L.A. at least) to insist you park away from their house or make you stay for a while, specifically to avoid this kind of situation.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:39 AM on June 12, 2013

I would agree with everyone else so far. In my neighborhood business tends to be conducted on bikes or guys on foot, but yeah, this is the general formula.

I think batmonkey is right on about how to handle this if you decide to pursue.
posted by phunniemee at 7:44 AM on June 12, 2013

I had these neighbors. They were drug dealers and the cops knew it but couldn't do anything about it. I was told that if the deals happen inside the house then there's no probable cause for searching the house or cars. Now, I don't know if my city's cops were lazy or if this was true. Either way, if you DO involve the police only do it via pay phone/ anonymously. Any report you give to the police is logged with the phone number/email it came in on and that information is public record. Do NOT attach your info to the report. Also, consider moving.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 7:50 AM on June 12, 2013 [3 favorites]

Usually the 10-15 cars pulling up every day are buyers, not sellers. If it's drugs it sounds like it might be prescription painkillers or Sudafed or something like that, for the neighbor to be buying pocketable amounts so frequently from so many different people.
posted by payoto at 7:55 AM on June 12, 2013

OK, I don't want to sound dramatic, however, if it is pseudoephedrine that your neighbor is buying, that is part of the recipe for meth. It might behoove you in that case to get to your police department post haste. The fumes, even if that shit doesn't blow up, are pretty toxic. Sorry to not assuage the drama...
posted by Sophie1 at 8:01 AM on June 12, 2013 [4 favorites]

Whatever kind of business they are running (it may not be drugs), at a minimum it's probably not licensed because usually businesses that involve vehicular traffic are not allowed in residential neighborhoods. You could make an anonymous report to the business licensing authorities and the police.
posted by Dansaman at 8:34 AM on June 12, 2013

I am also worried about meth. And the 13 year old.

If your neighbor is cooking that is very very very bad.

You need to find follow up on this, I think. It totally sucks. I'm sorry.
posted by jbenben at 8:37 AM on June 12, 2013

Response by poster: Wouldn't we smell meth? The only thing we ever occasionally smell is a strong old lady perfume smell- which would just be crappy dryer sheets.
Are there any medications for cerebral palsy that could be sold off market? Someone in that house has it.
posted by MayNicholas at 8:40 AM on June 12, 2013

From Facts about Meth:

What Does the Production of Meth Smell Like?

Acids: Sulfuric Acid(Drain Cleaner), Muriatic Acid (Pool Acid), Battery Acid, Hydrogen Chloride Gas

Solvents: Acetone, Ether (Starter Fluid), Toluene (Gun Cleaner)

Other: Cleaning Supplies, Anhydrous Ammonia (smells like cat urine), Fragrances (smells like Dryer Sheets), Iodine Crystals, Lithium Metal, Red Phosphorus

Call the cops.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:44 AM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

For what it's worth, my immediate thought upon reading your question was prescription painkillers, not meth, but obviously I have no facts upon which to base that.
posted by phunniemee at 8:45 AM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

These are drug dealers. They may be getting a "re-up" from the guys in the nice cars.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:46 AM on June 12, 2013

Um, yeah, this sounds like drug dealers. However, if all the people involved are immigrants from the same place, there's a (very) slight chance that they're selling something from their home country. At a house of Venezuelans that I know, people stop by, go into the house with a bag, and soon leave again. The Venezuelans are selling food that's not available here, chiefly a special flour for making arepas.
posted by ceiba at 8:55 AM on June 12, 2013

Regarding the child - tell the police about them too, theyre mandated reporters and should make the CPS report and coordinate.

Anonymous reports as porcine suggests are EXTREMELY difficult for police to take action on. If you make a report, I would suggest asking them what their plan for your safety is. If anonymous is all you feel comfortable with, that's ok, but it's hard for that to create probable cause necessary for a warrant, for example. You can always ask the police what their plan for your safety is.
posted by kavasa at 9:01 AM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Underground beanie-babies cartel.

N-thing drugs. Its pretty obvious.
posted by irishcoffee at 9:15 AM on June 12, 2013

I had a similar situation going on in a neighborhood where I lived, only one the cars that stopped at the house all the time was a police car. As others above have said, you need to report it AND you need to be careful how you do it.
posted by DaddyNewt at 9:55 AM on June 12, 2013

Most likely drugs. Though not sure if they are dealing as youyou say it's the same people day after day, unless it's a central base for smaller dealers and you say the owner is paying other people so it could just be a drop off point for sudafed or maybe something like a shoplifting ring, the hours and the reoccurring visits make me wonder if that might be another scenario.

Be careful how you report it. I know of someones dog being poisoned because they were suspected of reporting a drug dealer. Keep anon and use a pay phone.
posted by wwax at 10:01 AM on June 12, 2013

Sounds like drugs. An anonymous report is useless unless shots have been fired or someone is being beaten in the yard. You may even have trouble getting action if you file a formal report. Child Protective Services may be your best bet, but even then, they have to follow more or less the same rules that the police do when deciding to enter someone's home.

Go to the police station for an interview. Take pictures, notes, other witnesses with you. I wouldn't care to guess what sort of drugs are involved, because there are so many possibilities. Your signal concern here is your family's safety. This is a good point to emphasize when you talk to someone.

Also, the anecdote (above) about the Venezuelans is something to keep in mind. Be prepared to change your mind.
posted by mule98J at 10:50 AM on June 12, 2013

Response by poster: I really dislike this.
I can't say that I would feel comfortable reporting them. If we took pics or videos and something went down and it went to trial it would be obvious it was us based on the angle of the photos. I would hate to have our pooch poisoned or worse.
They are not an immigrant family, all white folks. I don't know what we can do while protecting our family. This is a quiet neighborhood and we all look out for each other. The folks across the street periodically come over to complain about our neighbors and call them drug dealers, but I really wanted to believe that wasn't the case.
We have seen the police over there 5-6 times in the last couple of years- one time they had all the people rounded up out back, but I have no idea what went down. I tried to search the public court records and couldn't find anything.
I wish we could move, but that isn't going to happen.
posted by MayNicholas at 12:39 PM on June 12, 2013

Wouldn't we smell meth? The only thing we ever occasionally smell is a strong old lady perfume smell- which would just be crappy dryer sheets.

Yes, you would smell it. If you are only smelling the perfume smell when they are running the clothes dryer, it's just dryer sheets.

The other scenario is that the car pulls up, honks the horn, neighbor comes out with money in hand

I have trouble believing that there would be multiple people selling your neighbor drugs who would want to honk their horn and draw attention to themselves. People buying drugs usually try to be a bit more discrete about it than going up to a car with money out in their hand as well.

We have seen the police over there 5-6 times in the last couple of years- one time they had all the people rounded up out back, but I have no idea what went down. I tried to search the public court records and couldn't find anything.

Check with the local police, explaining that as a mother of a young child you are wondering about any burglaries or other crime problems in your area you should be careful of. If nothing went to court there aren't going to be any court records.
posted by yohko at 1:19 PM on June 12, 2013

Get a notebook.

Make a log of plates and vehicle descriptions, arrival and departure times, and interactions.

Keep it for a week or two.

Make an appointment to bring it to the police. Tell the police you would like to make a report, but that you're concerned for your safety. Ask how they would plan for your safety. Make it clear that you're worried your neighbors would identify you via public records and that you want to know how that would be prevented.

You can report anonymously, but it's likely that nothing will come of it because anonymous reports are viewed by the courts as quite unreliable.
posted by kavasa at 1:19 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

It's probably drug dealing - but that doesn't mean you have to report it.

There are obviously plenty of good reasons to get the police involved whenever there's illegal activity happening in your neighbourhood. At the same time, your first priority needs to be your own safety and well-being.

As a general rule, a 'good' drug dealer doesn't want to attract attention to themselves - so the people who are showing up there will be on reasonably good behaviour. You'll see those cars coming and going, yes, but it'll be relatively peaceful.

We had a dealer living in a house near our old place and we waited to report it until we started seeing more disruptive behaviour - when there were screaming, crying people on the lawn at 2 a.m. When there were acts of domestic violence happening on the driveway. When it stopped being people in cars showing up and became guys on bicycles and random ne'er-do-wells camped on the front lawn for long periods of time.

As people have noted, it's hard to actually make a case against anyone if they're conducting business inside the house - in most places, at least, the police can't just go on someone's call stating, "We think our neighbours are selling drugs" and they need something more substantial.

When the calls from our neighbours (and us) started coming in about people loitering, vandalism, violence, disruptions, etc., the police started showing up regularly to, uh, police the situation. It eventually escalated to the point where the police were able to make a case to search the place, cleared it out, and all was well after that.
posted by VioletU at 3:06 PM on June 12, 2013

yohko: I have trouble believing that there would be multiple people selling your neighbor drugs who would want to honk their horn and draw attention to themselves. People buying drugs usually try to be a bit more discrete about it than going up to a car with money out in their hand as well.

I've seen some pretty fucking stupid drug addicts. If they feel safe, there's little they stoop to in laziness.
posted by IAmBroom at 3:15 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]

I have been involved in a neighborhood association that has gotten rid of (one way or another) over 40 dealers.

I can't say that I would feel comfortable reporting them. If we took pics or videos and something went down and it went to trial it would be obvious it was us based on the angle of the photos.

Relax. The police may use your tip, but they cannot use your photographs as evidence in court (they won't meet chain of evidence requirements). In my experience, which is certainly not universal, they go to great lengths to disguise the people who have brought the case to them.

The problem with drug dealers is, as you surmise, making the case. The police can't just arrest on a tip (although this suffices for a vehicle stop, so if you can report license plates, do so), so they will need to get an informant in there as a customer and make a "buy" under police supervision, a bit like you may have seen on TV. The customer will be someone on probation or otherwise facing charges and thus a good, cooperative subject. Ethics note, there are times this has gone horribly wrong. Usually this does not involve wearing a wire.

The making the case part takes time. They need to get someone who knows the right people and will be trusted. They need to test the drugs. Etc.

Now, for a number of years we had a multi-jurisdictional task force dedicated to taking down drug dealers. The trouble was, they kept trying to get the kingpins, and the street dealers (or their relatives/friends) would be right back in business days later. Did nothing for us living amongst it all. What helped us was a chronic nuisance ordinance, and a change in police tactics. Find out whether it's possible in your state to pass one, and if your city has one. It's a way to shut down drug houses by getting the slum lords to evict the tenants. In our city, it empowers the police to force the landlords, after a certain number of police calls of certain types, to meet with the police and provide them with a mitigation plan. This can eliminate the issue very quickly compared to the time it takes for criminal cases to be made. You can lobby your city for such an ordinance if you don't have one. Today we have a department that is primarily interested in making the neighborhood safer, rather than racking up kingpin arrests. It's made a world of difference.

If they feel safe, there's little they stoop to in laziness.

Yup. We've had dealers sell to minors in broad daylight in our own driveway. Many times they are too young to feel vulnerable, they have experience only with the juvenile courts, they have a police force more concerned with other threats, and so forth. If they think they can get away with it, there are few precautions taken.
posted by dhartung at 3:27 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

I've seen some pretty fucking stupid drug addicts. If they feel safe, there's little they stoop to in laziness.

Point taken.

You can request extra police patrols for your area. It helps if multiple people in your neighborhood do this. Effectiveness varies by police department.
posted by yohko at 4:05 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]

They are unlikely to be making meth, very very unlikely if you live in a state that controls access to pseudoephedrine.

Any behavioral patterns you notice? Someone mainly dealing pot will generally have a clientele with different attitudes than someone dealing meth. If I had to guess, I'd say prescription drugs, too, especially with the resident giving cash to folks in the car sometime.

Anyone in the neighborhood in a better place to report this than you are? Less vulnerable, for instance?

As a CPS supervisor, this would be too slim for me to send a worker out at this point. Lots of traffic, lots of suspicion, but no proof and no clear evidence of child abuse. Law enforcement gets super excited about this stuff, though, and it would not surprise me if they were already interested in the house or some of the folks.
posted by purenitrous at 9:15 PM on June 12, 2013

It sounds like drug dealing- however- it also sounds a little too conspicuous for heavy drug dealing. I wonder if they're selling perscription meds. Sorry, but I can't think of a positive scenario here.
posted by windykites at 12:10 PM on June 13, 2013

Response by poster: After thinking about this and doing more snooping I think prescription drugs are right. Found a conviction from a few years ago for possession of a controlled substance for a couple of the family members.
How concerned should we be about that type of situation?
posted by MayNicholas at 1:54 PM on June 13, 2013

I mean, if this has been going on much as it is now for several years, my level of concern would be pretty low. I mean, it's obviously illegal, it sucks and all, and rx drug addiction is no joke, but...y'know. It's not like it's significantly impacting your life, right?

If you're more concerned about what would happen if you did report it, then hold off. Report it a year or two down the line when you've moved.
posted by phunniemee at 1:59 PM on June 13, 2013

I should clarify:

If it's still going on, report it a year or two down the line when you've moved.
posted by phunniemee at 2:00 PM on June 13, 2013