Is 7 too young to put PCs together?

September 20, 2005 3:13 AM

Is 7 too young to put PCs together?

I am very disappointed in the IT lessons that my boy is getting. As far as I can see they teach him how to underline in Word. I was thinking of running an after-school club letting the children put together a PC. Any thoughts, experience or advice? (can you use age instead of grade 3 etc. because I have never understood the US school system).

I know the children well and work with them on other projects.

posted by priorpark17 to sports, hobbies, & recreation (24 comments total)

Quite a bit of computer assembly requires signficant, but controlled force. PCI cards and DIMMs come to mind. You might experience excessive breakage if you employ seven-year-olds. (Consider restricting them to textiles for a few more years.)
posted by ryanrs at 3:39 AM on September 20, 2005

Nope, just use parts you wouldn't mind breaking and be aware of some VERY sharp edges inside those cheap sheet-metal cases. I've sliced open my fingers a couple times.
posted by trevyn at 3:40 AM on September 20, 2005

It is slightly risky. Some parts can be stubborn about going in right, working a screwdriver with some of those tiny screws can be frustrating to even a composed and rational adult, and there's static guard to keep in mind too.

I taught my sister the basics of computer hardware when she was about 12 or 13. By then, she had enough fine motor skills and at least a modicum of patience to replace a PCI card or insert a new hard drive.

If you're willing to put in the time and effort, you could probably teach your boy how to put a PC together. A club of kids though, you'd be better off sticking to more basic concepts such as touch typing and running more common programs. Teaching seven year olds anything is hard, let alone something that requires even a little patience.
posted by Saydur at 3:49 AM on September 20, 2005

You could teach some basic programming (say, in Python) instead. That's something a little more advanced than underlining, and doesn't involve such a big risk of physical harm or property damage.
posted by grouse at 3:53 AM on September 20, 2005

I've put computer parts together when I was 7, but supervised. The above posters are correct about controlled force; while trying to push in an ISA (ha! ISA! remember that?) card, something was terribly wrong, and I cracked the motherboard. Whoops!

Rather than let the children put together a PC by themselves, have them observe you do it, and explain things as you go. I'm sure there is no harm in letting them do some simple things like attach cables and etc., but I would be very careful with anything that requires force.
posted by adzm at 4:59 AM on September 20, 2005

One of my friends started putting computers together when he was three or four. Granted, he's a genius, but his motor skills couldn't have been any more stupendous than any other kid his age.

Go with cheap parts. The kids can learn to be careful pretty quickly.
posted by schroedinger at 5:12 AM on September 20, 2005

Be aware that there's some toxic chemicals in there (fire retardants, lead in wire insulation, etc.) which are more hazardous to children than adults. I agree with trevyn about the sharp/pointy edges, too. It won't kill them, but I wouldn't expose other people's children to these risks.

You could expose them to basic hardware concepts, but for brain development reasons you're better off waiting until a few years before puberty to teach a lot of science and technical information.
posted by D.C. at 5:14 AM on September 20, 2005

Yea, they're probably a little too young to be doing the actual assembly, but adzm's suggestion is good--let them learn by watching, at first, and if possible teach them what the components do ("This is where your files go...if it's faster that means your files will open faster; this is what the computer thinks with, the faster the better; this is how the computer remembers things in the short term..." etc).

Even if they don't grow up to be computer geeks, you've just created a dozen or so vastly-more-informed computer consumers who won't buy into most of the marketing shlock.

And I second grouse, because every computer user should know basic programming, ideally, as even knowing the basics can make someone a whole lot more productive. Like when they can write a ten-line script in five minutes to automate a process they'd otherwise spend a half-hour or longer doing.

Python is good for beginners because its syntax is very simple, and yet it can do powerful things from the get-go, plus it exposes you to good data structure usage, which is a general skill more useful than you'd think (both in programming and outside it).
posted by cyrusdogstar at 5:21 AM on September 20, 2005

Seconding cyrusdogstar and adzm here. Put together a computer on a tabletop. Don't even use a case... just sit the motherboard there and plug stuff in. It becomes much less mysterious when people realize that the components are not the case, and vice versa.

Get some old hardware and lay it all out. You can probably get to the point of asking for help along the lines of "Now, I want this computer to be able to talk to other computers. Which card do I need to put in next?"
posted by odinsdream at 6:30 AM on September 20, 2005

Never too early for some Logowriter.

You could expose them to basic hardware concepts, but for brain development reasons you're better off waiting until a few years before puberty to teach a lot of science and technical information.

???
posted by Ptrin at 7:03 AM on September 20, 2005

I think odinsdream's suggestion is great. Let them handle all the components and everything, but you do the pushing and connecting. I hurt my hands every single time I stick them in a machine (though your average 7 year olds probably have better video game callouses than I do), and they're always like kitten scratches and hurt for days.

And if you have an old dead hard drive, take it apart so everyone can see its guts. It's pretty cool to see how it works.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:14 AM on September 20, 2005

I started tinkering with the insides of PC when I was about 8 or 9. If the kid is sharp and interested, I don't think it's too young.

However, as some have mentioned, there are some seriously sharp edges inside a metal case.
posted by rxrfrx at 7:39 AM on September 20, 2005

I've been programming since I took a course when I was 7. I'd recommend some simple exercises and motivation from the first one or two chapters of this excellent book: How To Think Like a Computer Scientist.
posted by onalark at 7:48 AM on September 20, 2005

I would guess if you think the kid is ready for it, give it a shot, but know that you might lose some hardware. I took that risk a few years ago, and it paid off. My daughter assembled her first computer under guidance at age eight. She's 12 now, and has decent computer hardware and software skills, even by adult standards.

We did much of what has been mentioned already. I explained to her that she'd have to push hard to get some parts to snap into position, but that if she pushed it too hard, it would break. I also showed her the solder points and had her feel them to see how sharp they were, and warned her they'd leave bloody rips if she scraped against them too hard. I also warned her off the razor-sharp case edges as we were using a cheap stamped case. In all cases, she was careful and everything was okay.

We also took apart a hard drive. She still has the platters in a box in her room somewhere. We also went over all the different ports, and for the first couple years after, I mini-quizzed her every time we needed to do something to one of the house computers. I still have her do most of the work when something needs doing. I rarely even supervise now.
posted by Katravax at 8:11 AM on September 20, 2005

Your daughter will make a lonely young computer geek very, very happy one day, Katravax ;)
posted by cyrusdogstar at 9:19 AM on September 20, 2005

Due to sharp edges and electrical components, I wouldn't recommend pc building with a group of kids that young. In a club setting, you may have kids who are not particularly capable. One on one would probably work.

But you can give them a pc, monitor, mouse, keyboard, and have them do the connecting. It's trivial to many of us, but not to kids, and some parents. Taking apart hard drives and other stuff is fun.

You could also use other programs like Open Office to teach concepts. Or some non-office related apps, like Paint, which actaully can do a fair amount. It's fun putting a friend's head on a dinosaur body. Or learn cd-ripping, winamp, etc.
posted by theora55 at 10:30 AM on September 20, 2005

Why on earth would you care about computer assembly?

You don't care about microwave oven assembly in cooking class. You don't care about power tool assembly in shop class. You don't care about car assembly in driving class.

The future is in laptops and all-in-one internet access devices and media devices. There will be no real assembly, at least no more so than for setting up a home stereo.

IMO, focus on the more important things, like learning how to script, how to play safe on the net, and how to maximize the utility of the computer with the least amount of effort.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:41 AM on September 20, 2005

I find latching the heatsink on without breaking anything to be hard at age 37.

Lego Mindstorms might work well, though.
posted by Zed_Lopez at 11:16 AM on September 20, 2005

Installing cards and putting together many computer components is a pain, but I'm sure a savvy 7-year-old could swap out drives & such as well as anybody...

I think it is of general usefulness to learn how to physically put machines together whether they will be obsolete in fifteen years or not; I wish I'd done more of that as a kid.
posted by furiousthought at 11:25 AM on September 20, 2005

One reason to continue hardware knowledge training in an age of smaller machines (and I'm not 100% positive that fff's forecast will come true, although certainly such devices will be come much more popular than they currently are, I just don't think they'll necessarily eclipse 'normal' minitowers) is that unlike with common appliances, knowing how to take advantage of a computer is very much helped by a knowledge of its interior components.

Having a familiarity with CPUs, memory, hard drives, motherboard buses, and so forth, will always be integral to doing any sort of programming on a computer, or even non-programming usage. Yes, you can use one like an appliance and be completely ignorant of its insides, but I'd argue that knowing a PC's internals will always be more useful than knowing the internals of your microwave. It's not the same thing, no matter how commoditized hardware gets.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 11:35 AM on September 20, 2005

To those saying the danger of a cut hand means you should avoid the assembly work, I have to disagree. There's always the risk a kid will cut his hand or something, but good grief, none of it would be serious in this situation. They have human brains just like the rest of us. Explain the dangers, tell them how to minimize risk, and they'll be careful. Have a first aid kit ready, and keep an eye on them.

You can't avoid all risk, and you shouldn't try to. Adults rarely take kids seriously any more, and I'm sure the kids would jump at the chance to play with the innards of a PC. Give them the chance to impress you, and they usually will.
posted by Katravax at 1:05 PM on September 20, 2005

D.C. writes "for brain development reasons you're better off waiting until a few years before puberty to teach a lot of science and technical information"

Myelination of most nerve tracts in the brain happens at puberty. This makes nerves run faster and more efficiently. This means that some physical connections in younger kid's brains run more slowly, making some concepts more difficult to grasp, especially less concrete and more open-ended concepts. Like science. Kids see black and white, teens start to understand the gray areas. Sort of why addition and subtraction is taught at an earlier age, but algebra and calculus is left until the kids get older and can handle those more open-ended problems.

five fresh fish writes "Why on earth would you care about computer assembly?"

Why on earth would I care about small engine repair? We have mechanics and such, right?

The thing is, if I know how it works I have a much better understanding of how it might break and how to fix it when it does break. If I can change my own spark plugs, why would I pay a mechanic $50/hour to do it for me? If I can install my own new hard drive, why would I pay a high schooler working at Best Buy $50/hour to do it for me?

You start talking about pistons and driveshafts and timing belts and kids who help their parents putter about in the garage fixing the car or the lawnmower will light up and chime in. Why shoudln't they have this same knowledge of the machines they use for writing papers or playing games? Leaving it as a "black box" of unknown and mysterious parts makes it harder to identify with it. When you know how it goes together and a little about how it works, you're better off.

Personally, I think 7 may be a little young to teach assembly, but I've felt for a long time that "computers" classes in most schools were glorified typing lessons. Yes, typing is a valuable skill, but for christ's sake I have a doctorate in behavioral neuroscience and I can't frickin' touch type, I never learned. It doesn't seem to have hurt me much. I did however learn how to assemble and maintain a computer, and that skill kept me in grad school - earned me extra money, for example, and the first three computers I used as a grad student were literally built from parts that were cast off for disposal from other labs.

I'd like to see a computers class in middle or high school that started with a loose box of parts and ended with a roomful of computers, put together and programmed by the students. You start with some discarded Pentium Is or so, have them assemble the thing as they learn about the parts and functions, then move into some simple OS and programming. You can even get into networking of computers, heck build a Beowolf cluster. Using cast-off parts, a free OS, and open-source software this wouldn't cost a school much at all. It would be far, far preferable and far more beneficial than some stupid typing class taught by a person who very often knows less about computers than the students taking the class.
posted by caution live frogs at 1:21 PM on September 20, 2005

A great undercover way to start kids thinking like programmers would be to let them play Robo Rally.
posted by Zed_Lopez at 12:09 PM on September 21, 2005

One of my daughters (7 yo) put together a complete PC a month or so ago under my supervision. Although she is pretty familiar with tools and perhaps more so than most 7 yo girls, she had no problem with correct force etc (I assembled the CPU heat sink, because they are always tricky). For most things, I showed her where it had to go and held it in the right place, then passed it to her to do. Some things took a couple of attempts, but she did pretty well overall and was fascinated to learn about what all the parts do. For the naysayers, learning about what is inside things is the best wy to gain a solid understanding of what they are doing (or not doing).

Doing this for a group would be a different kettle of fish altogether, though. If nothing else, make sure you have some liability insurance.

My youngest daughter (5 yo) is about to start on the other end of the scale - pulling part a complete PC at pre-school and explaining to the class what the parts do (with assistance from the teacher) - kids are never too young to learn with appropriate supervision and their mind are like sponges. If you can access some old equipment, pulling things apart and then re-assembling them might be an easier step - especially if it doesn't matter if they break something.
posted by dg at 4:14 AM on September 26, 2005