Comments on: SWM level 42 Night Elf Hunter seeks real life.

Question: SWM level 42 Night Elf Hunter seeks real life.

spinifex23 — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:55:46 -0800

So, in the vortex that is my life, I got sucked into World of Warcraft. Partially because it's fun, partially because I loved the environment, partially because it was a chance to put real life issues on the side while destressing in game.

Well now, I had the thought "What the fuck am I doing?! Playing a video game every night isn't living, it's wasting away." So today, I outright cancelled my account. For now, at least, it's messing with my health and my life too much, and I want both of those back. Give me tips on how not to get sucked back to the game. (Currently, I'm on a cleaning binge, and started reading a book.) Thank you.

By: danb

danb — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:59:57 -0800

Delete the game off of your hard drive and sell/throw away the CDs. Unbookmark (or stop reading) the Blizzard site, the WoW site, the forums -- whatever it is that you used to keep up on the game world. "Out of sight, out of mind" is a good way to start.

Aside from that, you have to decide what it is that you consider a worthwhile use of your time. It seems like you intuitively realize that playing video games is not a constructive hobby, since your examples of better activities are cleaning and reading. That's good. Find something that you can feel good about doing and also enjoy, and stick with that. Eventually you'll wonder why you ever played it in the first place.

By: jaysus chris

jaysus chris — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:12:20 -0800

I ran into the same wall this spring and finally just did as danb suggests. Cancel, uninstall, and get rid of your disks. There will be no temptation if there's no chance to give in to it.

By: Eamon

Eamon — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:22:02 -0800

There are many things I'd enjoy doing if I didn't need to stay home most evenings, here are a few of them. Almost all of the following activities could be pursued alone or with friends:

Go to cafés and read or write
See bands play live
Chat at bars over a couple pints
Date
Watch movies at the theater
Dance at clubs
Take evening classes
Practice some martial art

Believe me, I could go on. I understand your problem, though; when you're free to do anything, you can't think of what to do. When you can't do anything, you'll never run out of ideas.

By: Manjusri

Manjusri — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:40:15 -0800

The easiest way to modify your own behaviour is to change your perception. It can be surprisingly easy to go from viewing something as a pleasure, to an irritating sense of being manipulated. A good start might be to examine the addictive nature of MMORPGS. You may wind up being disgusted, or still enjoy the games without partaking of the intentionally designed rat race qualities. Personally I am somewhere between the two viewpoints.

What makes MMORPGS so addictive is the simulation of progression achieved by obtaining levels and items through playing the game. When a person perceives progression, i.e. the sense that he is a "little bit better off", the brain gets a little dose of dopamine. Its evolution's way of rewarding the industrious, and what motivates you to work hard, clean your room etc. It is the same dynamic that is at the root of gambling addiction.

"Ordinary" games such as first-person-shooters provide this sense of progression to a lesser degree. The more you play the better you get and when you perceive the progress you get your dopamine rush. However, after a while you get tired or hungry, your performance suffers and ends the reward of continued play. MMORPGS are less skill-intensive and continue to reward the player for button-mashing until they can no longer keep their eyes open.

The community of MMORPG players can also reinforce this addiction, by providing a surrogate to a "real life" community, thus making it easier to withdraw from personal contacts and harder to start them up again. Cults use much the same technique to make it difficult for members to leave and rejoin the larger community.

When I've gone too long without a meal, I used to grab the richest sugariest snack around. At some point, I realized that while it may feel good going down, It soon made me feel worse. That realization takes much of the zest out of even eating the treat. When you are craving a sense of accomplishment and progression, computer games are a tempting candy bar, but provide very little nourishment.

For further reading, I recommend Nick Yee's articles on the subject.

By: artifarce

artifarce — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:41:18 -0800

I also quit WoW, though in my case it is ("still") temporary, so I didn't want to get rid of my disks. What did help, though, was asking my friends who played not to talk about the game around me. While I wasn't really afraid that they'd tried to drag me back in, it did help to forget what I was "missing." If you have people you used to group with, maybe consider asking the same of them.

By: curbstop

curbstop — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:46:57 -0800

Exactly the same situation for me a couple of years ago (but for Starcraft). Lent it to someone and never got it back, spent a couple of years without ever playing it. Thought I was cured of it until I saw it very cheap and rebought it. Played it excessively again. Realized it was wasting too much of my time and stopped playing it (but I kept it this time).

Took a psych course on drug addiction, and one of the interesting ideas was that drug users who had been clean for a long time relapsed (or were more likely to relapse) when they were re-exposed to the same environment they associated with that behaviour. (I just say this because I find computer games very addictive). I believe that they were a lot less likely to relapse when they were exposed to the same stimuli without the drugs (extinction). (I'm no expert on psych, it was an interest class, sorry if I muddled it a bit).

I feel as though I'm actually 'cured' because I still have the CD. If I had tossed it again, I'd be playing it the same amount (never) but I wouldn't necessarily feel cured. Also if you keep the CD but never play it, it is (I find at least) a big ego boost. Not necessarily for computer games, but I gave up caffeine and every time I think about drinking it and refrain myself it is a big boost to my sense of will power. (and that has led me to believe I could give up other unhealthy and addictive things (down to 4 hours of tv a week)).

Just tossing it might not get rid of the urge to play video games if you happen to buy a new one. Maybe hide it in an attic, crawl space or some other hard to access place. It removes it from spur of the moment use. It also still allows you to play it if you really, really wanted to, but now you feel good when you don't (instead of not thinking on it). all this talk makes me want to go frame my Starcraft CD and hang it on the wall to remind me not to waste time on other useless things.

(sorry if i made any etiquette errors - got off topic or whatever, if's my first ever reply).

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:47:29 -0800

I agree completely with putting the temptation out of reach -- and I think you do, too, since you outright cancelled your subscription. You'll have to evaluate, though, whether it's only the MMORPGS that grab you like this or if you're going to find time on your computer difficult because you're tempted to play something else as a substitute. That being said, scheduling minimal computer time -- with NO flexibility at least in terms of duration -- may be a good idea. Even if I'd most like to be playing a particular video game, a secondary game still tempts as does simply wasting time online (heh), so the whole sitting-down-at-my-desk is the equivalent of a nic addict watching somebody light up a smoke. Keep yourself away from the passive entertainment and keep your head in the real world for an extended period till the pangs wear off, or at least you've rooted yourself in a schedule and habits involving real things.

By: matildaben

matildaben — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:52:39 -0800

I'm wondering how much "reading Metafilter" could be substituted into this particular conversation.

By: filmgeek

filmgeek — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:55:36 -0800

Replace that activity with something that is both rewarding and useful for yourself:

Get to the gym.
Write.
Learn something you've always wanted to.

Imagine if you poured that much time into learning a language?

By: MiG

MiG — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:07:47 -0800

I just quit cold-turkey. It's the only way.

I'm a high school teacher. So I just walked to the nerdy section of school and said "who wants WoW CDs and an account good for another month?" Gave it to an appreciative kid, and made sure he changed the password.

Don't throw it away, there's somebody out there who will appreciate it ;-)

By: jdroth

jdroth — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:51:04 -0800

I had the same problem: for a period of five months I was devoting an average of 40 hours a week to WoW. How did I quit?
I cancelled my account and deleted the game from all my computers.

I'm still tempted back, but I've now been away from the game for five months, so I think I may have beaten it.

By: moift

moift — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:20:54 -0800

By: ikkyu2

ikkyu2 — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:43:28 -0800

I myself quit cold turkey on June 15. The withdrawal pangs are starting to subside.

You, playing as your character, can meet every one of Maslow's hierarchy of needs - in-game. The more time you invest, the better you can meet the top-tier needs - in-game.

And when you log out, all that investment goes away. Meanwhile, none of your real-life needs are being met.

Just stop playing it. It's harmful to your growth as a human person.

By: sourwookie

sourwookie — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 23:06:33 -0800

Live Life.

Delete WOW.

Good Start.

Done.

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Sun, 18 Sep 2005 23:47:47 -0800

Ooh, I like the use of Maslow -- and agree with this completely. It is absolutely what makes this more "dangerous" than merely a more intensified Pac-man (which was bad enough).

Not surprised to see that it's you again, ikkyu2. Insightful observation.

By: spinifex23

spinifex23 — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 00:05:42 -0800

The Maslow makes sense - I did some reading on MMORPG addiction, and they talked about that a lot. As for other MMORPG games, I tried both Everquest and Asheron's Call, and none of them did anything for me. So, I bought WoW, thinking it'd be like just another X-Box game...and oh no. Oh God no. Now I have learned. (I have played X-Box games, and particularly love Morrowind, but it doesn't suck you in like WoW does.)

One of the saddest things I've heard about MMORPGs was from a friend of mine, who said that he regretted having to spend time with his wife one night, as he would have rather been in the game. (His is the Star Wars one.) That just made me shake my head in disbelief.

By: Tuwa

Tuwa — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 00:11:52 -0800

I had this same problem with both Starcraft and Warcraft III. A friend of mine wanted to borrow the CDs while he was finishing up his pharmacy degree; I was happy to lend them to him. When he moved and took the CDs with him, I was happy about that too. I guess because he's working 50 and 60 hours a week now he thought he'd better send the CDs back. I really didn't want them back. When I opened the package and saw the cases I said "oh, hell." Inside the Starcraft case there's still that post-it note on the CD with the warning "this game kills your productivity."

I put them in my file box. I still play Starcraft sometimes, but WCIII has for some reason lost its luster. I wish they all would; it's downright silly putting so much time into something that's entirely fake, something that won't mean anything to anyone after I'm gone. I keep trying to remind myself that time spent on it is time actively not accomplishing anything that matters--writing, or playing music, or studying, or communicating with friends and family....

That Maslow comment above is on point, and I wonder about the dopamine issue too.

Good luck. ^_^

By: pollystark

pollystark — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:44:28 -0800

I played a lot of computer games up until about a year ago. I wasn't a huge addict - never got into MMPGs - but I probably played a couple of hours a day. For the last four years, I was at Uni and had a bunch of friends, hobbies, went out, always got work done on time, so didn't see gaming as a massive waste of time.

God, I was wrong.

When I moved to a new city a year ago, I just *stopped* played. Almost overnight. I've had a few dalliances with games over the last year - I've probably bought about three and maybe played them for about 10 hours each. But the desire is just gone. I am convinced this is because there is just so much other stuff going on in my life.

So: get some hobbies and hopefully the desire will just melt away. Some ideas: take up a musical instrument, join a band, read more books, date (awesome suggestion), spend more time with your siblings, go to gigs and really get into music, volunteer, make your house tidier, do chores and pay bills on time, learn a language, join a library.

By: Ryvar

Ryvar — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 03:21:16 -0800

Because of friends at Blizzard I got into the WOW beta very, very early last year (March). I got so into it that for five months I wound up playing at least 16 hours a day, and often would shift to a 26-hour 'day' and play for 22 hours each 'day.' The only person outpacing me in the beta was one account that three roommates played in successive eight-hour shifts.

What finally put me off was not only recognition that it was literally destroying my life, but Blizzard removing the invisibility spell from the Mage class, which was the basis for a lot of the fun I had in the game.

I think the best thing you can do to remove yourself from MMOs is to start playing ProgessQuest - a game in which user interaction has been 'abstracted out of the game.' The 'game' serves as an object lesson about the inherent futility of playing MMORPGs. It's helped me out of addiction to a few different MMOs by placing my actions in the proper context.

By: teleskiving

teleskiving — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:34:02 -0800

Be proud of the steps you have taken so far, and be proud every time you feel like slipping but resist. Be proud of what you have accomplished with the time instead. Really make a point of acknowledging these achievements. When you expect a good "hit" of self esteem to result from doing the right thing you'll be more motivated to take that course. When you're dismissive of small accomplishments you miss an opportunity to reinforce that behaviour.

By: Scoo

Scoo — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:12:00 -0800

I feel much like you. WoW is a colossal waste of time, I've got bigger fish to fry. I'm an visual arts guy, so I'm trying to produce instead of consume. I go to Drawn! and A Painting a Day for ~~inspiration~~ shaming me into getting off my lazy ass and doing some work. I still game on my PS2, but it's easier to walk away from. It's also a father-son activity before bed time, so gaming becomes this encapsulated time limited thing. ~~Beware the Living!~~ Good Luck!

By: Ber

Ber — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:39:22 -0800

Moift, that audio is just so...sad.

By: Medieval Maven

Medieval Maven — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:44:46 -0800

Friend of mine deleted SWG from his HD, and then nuked the CDs. In the microwave, naturally.

If you enjoy gaming, that's fine, but set a schedule for it and don't let it eat your life. I game instead of watching TV, and I don't feel badly about it, but I also make sure that stuff's done when it needs to be done, rather than rotting away at the expense of my MMORPG habit.

By: Imperfect

Imperfect — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:48:58 -0800

I'm lucky in the respect that I was never really into the "guild thing" and never had anything dragging me back into the game on a regular basis. I just had the level treadmill.

Then I hit 60 as a Hunter -- and no-one wants a Hunter in their group in the end-game, any strength they have is covered by another class, and much better to boot.

So all of a sudden I had nothing to do in-game, and I quit. Just up and quit.

What's absolutely hilarious is at about the three-month mark, you'll catch yourself having a goddamn awesome time playing poker with your buddies, singing, taking photographs, coding, reading, writing, spending time with your SO, or any number of other activities you forgot you enjoyed so much -- and think, "Goddamn, how could I have ever spent all this time grinding for XP, waiting up to 12 minutes on gryphon flights, and thinking that rolling against six other people on a piece of equipment that drops 12% of the time after a twenty-minute long fight after a two-hour long dungeon is worth it?"

I love games and gaming, and am starting an indie development studio at the end of this month, but it's an addiction and has to be treated like one. Limit your time spent gaming, restrict yourself from the ones that consume you, and make sure you still do the important things in your life (shower, eat, sleep, socially interact, school, work). Make sure you do them first.

By: thanotopsis

thanotopsis — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:47:02 -0800

Bah, Coward. BLIZZARD OWNS YOU.

By: spinifex23

spinifex23 — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:23:51 -0800

They'll have to pry this game out of my cold, blue, emaciated Night Elf hands!

(Or I stop paying).

And I had a schedule when I first started playing, and everything was cool. But then this past summer, I was both laid off from work, and laid up with a broken big toe. So I started playing all the time. Thus, hooked. Now that I'm both employed and ambulatory, it's time to pull the plug! Luckily, I never neglected more than the housework, and that'll be easy to get the upper hand on.

By: solid-one-love

solid-one-love — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:28:39 -0800

Like Polly, I quit cold turkey very shortly after I moved to a new city in March. I had ample free time, but found more interesting things to do. And this has been the case with pretty much any kind of gaming. I haven't plugged my PS2 in since I moved. I bought a PSP the week before I moved and have hardly touched the thing; I don't even play with it on the bus, preferring to read instead. My only gaming at all has been playing various solitaire word games on Pogo.

But for me, this has only been the latest in a long series of "what's the pont of gaming" turning points.

I started playing D&D when I was 12, in 1981. I used to be a compulsive gamer and purchaser of gaming crap. I worked in a game store for many years. I was heavily involved in various gaming clubs. There was a point where I would take a five-hour bus-and-ferry trip each way every Saturday to play a game that nobody in town was playing.

Three years ago, I quit cold turkey. I came to the realization that there was no purpose to it other than to hang out with friends -- and then I realized that these people weren't really my friends. They were just people I gamed with.

Not every pastime or hobby has to have a purpose. But one would be hard-pressed to find a pastime more useless than gaming...except perhaps for fandom, whether you're talking about sports fanatics or Buffyverse convention-goers.

For me, the easiest way to keep from getting pulled back on the wagon has been to ask myself (as appropriate) "In twenty years, am I going to look back and wish that I'd learned to play the piano or taken a night course in RoboHelp or something?" Or, in the case of buying new games, "Shit, man. With what you spent on games every year since you were 20 you could have taken an annual vacation somewhere exotic and kept lifelong memories. Pick one: slaying a big demon and getting the amulet, or photos of you exploring Chichen Itza."

By: illovich

illovich — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:01:29 -0800

I hit 60/57 with my paladin/hunter and suddenly had enough. I didn't leave it as much as it left me, if you know what I mean.

I decided that I was tired of the MMORPG treadmill, and I've reignited my uber-geeky love of Warhammer, 40k mostly. Between painting miniatures and rules-lawyerin' with the other geeks at the hobby shop, it's like I'm raiding full time.

Please send help.

=-)

By: spinifex23

spinifex23 — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:09:32 -0800

You can listen to these guys having a serious business guild meeting and thank God you were able to stop before this happened to you. Whenever you feel tempted, listen again and realize Clownboat wasn't even there.

Is it really sad of me that a. I know that the guild in that audio is Goon Squad, who plays Horde over on Mal'Ganis, and b. that I have been ganked by Clownboat many, many times?

By: ikkyu2

ikkyu2 — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:29:24 -0800

Spinifex, it is a little bit sad. But be kind to yourself.

At one point, I/my mage had the highest DPS of anyone on Silver Hand, on either side. At least, to fire-susceptible creatures. Whole parties of level 60 Alliance would cut and run when they saw Felessa coming.

I look back and just shake my head. In fact, I look up at that last paragraph and it's pretty embarrassing. How did I get there? No idea. Glad it's over? Definitely.

By: solid-one-love

solid-one-love — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:51:51 -0800

Highest direct damage DPS, maybe. My (unnamed) human frost/arcane mage was Horde Enemy #1 for quite a while on Silver Hand with his tricked-out Blizzards and Arcane Explosions, but I think Beebletoe is still widely considered about the most dangerous mage on SH in PvP using a similar frost/arcane scheme.

Yeah, this is really helping Spinefex.

By: efbrazil

efbrazil — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:50:00 -0800

RPGs= rat pushing +4 HP, +5 Charisma ~~level~~ lever. People, creativity, and productivity aside, MMORPGs are an eloquent statement of existential futility, or maybe that's just rationalization.

More pragmatically I recommend Burnout Revenge- it's an intense hit of gaming drug that's non-addictive (minimal leveling, no story, no gambling). Oh, and also get a really confusing firewall that disables online gameplay (worked for me).

By: perianwyr

perianwyr — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:19:28 -0800

go LARPing, it's the only way

By: aacheson

aacheson — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:16:28 -0800

"Is it really sad of me that a. I know that the guild in that audio is Goon Squad, who plays Horde over on Mal'Ganis, and b. that I have been ganked by Clownboat many, many times?" HUH?????

"At one point, I/my mage had the highest DPS of anyone on Silver Hand, on either side. At least, to fire-susceptible creatures. Whole parties of level 60 Alliance would cut and run when they saw Felessa coming." to which I say, double-HUH???

The guys in my office eat, drink, & sleep WOW. I know you may not care what others think, but they really a bunch of losers. Their lives have gotten so narrow they can't even talk about anything else anymore. I just don't get it. I think the graphics are cool, but come ON. Maybe it's a guy thing. Be kind to yourself and ditch the CD's, cancel the subscription, and never go back. Life is to short.

By: spinifex23

spinifex23 — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:34:27 -0800

go LARPing, it's the only way

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh, I have a great LARPing story. In the '90's, my friends all got bitten by the Vampire: the masquerade bug. They wanted me to give up my real life noise rock band, which was getting gigs, to LARP a vampire who...played in a rock band. I politely turned them down. Many, many, many times.

By: solid-one-love

solid-one-love — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:02:07 -0800

Yeah. On the scale of wasteful pastimes, fandom is worse than gaming, the SCA is worse than fandom, and LARPing is worse than the SCA (and Vampire LARP is the lowest of the LARP genres). About the only thing worse than LARP is dressing up as furries.

LARPers, furries, SCA'ers -- if you rounded them all up and dumped them into lime-filled pit, who'd notice that they were missing?

By: Osel

Osel — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:52:20 -0800

I just did the exact same thing... exactly one month ago today, I woke up one morning with this tangible feeling of disgust at how many hours--sometimes 12 or more per day, and no less than 4--I had spent playing World of Warcraft. For 8 months this had been my life.

One of the saddest things about WoW are all the addicts who have families with young children. I am always seeing "hold on a sec, my 4-year-old is bugging me..." as though the kid is the distraction, not the stupid game. I was in what we call a "family guild," where there are lots of 30+ year olds playing... dear lord, isn't it time to grow up? My answer a month ago was, why, yes, yes it is.

One of the opportunities of being an adult is the ability to make long-term life choices that may sort of suck in the moment. I certainly do miss WoW and my "guild," but I am unwilling to trade it for my future children, and the extra hours of productivity I get every day.

By: teleri025

teleri025 — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:18:47 -0800

I'm sorry you had an issue with the game. And I can understand how it can get out of hand. However I think that declaring yourself "addicted" and going "cold turkey" is kinda silly. Personally, I've had days where I played non-stop and I've gone days without playing. It's a matter of balance.

Anything done to an excess is bad, it doesn't matter if it's gaming, reading, goofing off on the interweb, or excercise...an excess is, well, excessive.

It's possible you need to examine your life and see just what need WOW filled in you. Was it the social aspects? Was is the advancement or the sense of accomplishing something?

I truly don't see anything wrong with hopping on a game to kill an hour here and there while watching TV or just decompressing after a hard day. I worry that if you don't begin to understand *why* WoW was so addictive to you that you'll just get into something else even more destructive and more costly, like SCA. ;)

On Preview: Osel, why do you consider spending a few hours enjoying something fun every so often not grown up? I'll be 31 this year and I don't see any reason to give up gaming, or reading comics or even RPG's just to prove I'm an adult. Growing up, my parents only had two interests, me and their work. Of course, after the kid moved out they had some serious time on their hands. I think that kids and adults alike should all have interests outside of family and work in order to make them healthy. Granted I can't have the all-night gaming sessions of my college years, but that's not an age thing; it's because I have to work in the morning.

All in all, I think WoW is a perfectly fine game and that there's not a damn thing wrong with playing an hour or so, or even more than that, as long as you understand two things. A) It's just a game. B)It's just a game.

By: 3.2.3

3.2.3 — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:51:17 -0800

Give me tips on how not to get sucked back to the game.

get a job.

if you already have one, get another.