Seeking Upper, Upper Management at a Fortune 500 Oil & Gas Company
May 29, 2013 7:12 AM Subscribe
The facts: I'm a reservoir engineer at a Fortune 500 oil and gas company. I have six years of experience. I have a BS in Petroleum Engineering from a top school. I've been told I'm on the fast track to management. I've also been told that unless I get an MBA, I'll reach a point in my career one day (maybe 10-15 years in the future) where I can't rise any higher.
The question: I realize that there is no black-and-white answer here, but I'm looking for general advice on if I should get my MBA, so as not to plateau in my career advancement possibilities at a major oil and gas firm. Is an MBA generally considered to be a requirement for reaching the upper echelons of management at a Fortune 500? Are enough of my peers getting an MBA that it will be hard to complete with them if I don't also have one?
Any advice you can offer, especially with respect to the oil and gas world, would be helpful (that said, advice on Fortune 500's in general is welcome as well). Obviously, getting an MBA is a major personal, professional, and financial commitment, so I want to consider all of the angles. What gives me pause is that when I look at some of the executives in positions I'd like to one day be in (general managers, VPs, or higher), some do not have MBAs.
Is an MBA generally considered to be a requirement for reaching the upper echelons of management at a Fortune 500?
Pretty much. The people who get there in other ways largely do so because they brought a lot of capital to the table, either straight money or things like IP and innovation in those areas. Steve Jobs didn't have an MBA I don't think--don't think he had a degree of any kind for that matter--but he was Steve Jobs, so yeah. Same with Bill Gates. You start the company, or start a company that gets acquired by a Fortune 500, you get to be in the C-suite.
Oil and gas companies don't really seem to work that way. You want to reach upper management, you go up through the ranks, and probably not from the mail room as in the days of yore.
That being said, there are other degrees that might, maybe, work in place of an MBA. Many C-level corporate counsel don't have MBAs, just JDs, but then again many have both. You may find that a masters in engineering could serve in place of an MBA. Indeed, I know someone whose career has plateaued because his company actually wants the former more than the latter. So you may want to consider that direction instead.
What gives me pause is that when I look at some of the executives in positions I'd like to one day be in (general managers, VPs, or higher), some do not have MBAs.
Here's question for you: how many of them reached that level in the last ten years? My guess is not very many. There are a lot of people in their fifties and up who don't have advanced degrees that somehow made it into upper management, but advanced degrees are increasingly a prerequisite for consideration, just as a sorting tool. It's bullshit, but that's the game.
In general though, I think the rule with the MBA is that if you can't get your employer to pay for it, it's of questionable value. If they'll pay for it, it's clear that they want you to have it. If you pay for it, you're taking a very expensive flier.
posted by valkyryn at 7:26 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Pretty much. The people who get there in other ways largely do so because they brought a lot of capital to the table, either straight money or things like IP and innovation in those areas. Steve Jobs didn't have an MBA I don't think--don't think he had a degree of any kind for that matter--but he was Steve Jobs, so yeah. Same with Bill Gates. You start the company, or start a company that gets acquired by a Fortune 500, you get to be in the C-suite.
Oil and gas companies don't really seem to work that way. You want to reach upper management, you go up through the ranks, and probably not from the mail room as in the days of yore.
That being said, there are other degrees that might, maybe, work in place of an MBA. Many C-level corporate counsel don't have MBAs, just JDs, but then again many have both. You may find that a masters in engineering could serve in place of an MBA. Indeed, I know someone whose career has plateaued because his company actually wants the former more than the latter. So you may want to consider that direction instead.
What gives me pause is that when I look at some of the executives in positions I'd like to one day be in (general managers, VPs, or higher), some do not have MBAs.
Here's question for you: how many of them reached that level in the last ten years? My guess is not very many. There are a lot of people in their fifties and up who don't have advanced degrees that somehow made it into upper management, but advanced degrees are increasingly a prerequisite for consideration, just as a sorting tool. It's bullshit, but that's the game.
In general though, I think the rule with the MBA is that if you can't get your employer to pay for it, it's of questionable value. If they'll pay for it, it's clear that they want you to have it. If you pay for it, you're taking a very expensive flier.
posted by valkyryn at 7:26 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You're on the engineering side, so unless you get an MBA or move into operations or some segment of the company's work that gives you big-picture credibility (do both!), you're only going to move up so far before there's a tee in the organizational chart that requires big-picture credibility to move any farther up. You might rise to the top of engineering or an engineering segment, but you're never going to be a VP without something more. An MBA is the easiest way to get that. Couple that with some peripheral experience in another unit and you're golden.
posted by resurrexit at 7:31 AM on May 29, 2013
posted by resurrexit at 7:31 AM on May 29, 2013
The only value of an MBA is that it differentiates you from everyone else who doesn't have an MBA. And vice versa.
posted by three blind mice at 7:56 AM on May 29, 2013
posted by three blind mice at 7:56 AM on May 29, 2013
some do not have MBAs.
Those people have connections.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:59 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Those people have connections.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:59 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
How about joining a professional association like American Society for Engineering Management and taking the certification
posted by canoehead at 8:01 AM on May 29, 2013
posted by canoehead at 8:01 AM on May 29, 2013
This is something that I am struggling with as well- I don't see the point of the MBA right now- plenty of senior (global level) mangers do not have advanced degrees in my industry, and the market is saturated with MBAs who don't have Jobs. I've found that managers with MBAs do not rise any faster than those without, but the advantage comes when job hunting- if you are looking to jump jobs it becomes another box HR can check off.
If, and this is a big if, if You are able to rise through the ranks quickly, and are extroverted enough to make the connections you'd gain from an MBA w/o an MBA, then (in my opinion)you are fine.
However, if your networking skills leave something to be desired and your company is paying for the MBA at a top school then it may make sense to go for the MBA.
posted by larthegreat at 8:13 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
If, and this is a big if, if You are able to rise through the ranks quickly, and are extroverted enough to make the connections you'd gain from an MBA w/o an MBA, then (in my opinion)you are fine.
However, if your networking skills leave something to be desired and your company is paying for the MBA at a top school then it may make sense to go for the MBA.
posted by larthegreat at 8:13 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
As an engineering manager, I've always considered going for an MBA to be the ripcord one pulls when things aren't going so well. If you're moving up the ladder at a good pace, your time and effort are better spent focusing on your job. But if your advancement will soon be blocked by a perceived lack of business experience (and your company should tell you that), or things have gotten bad in your company and you need a new network, or your industry has hit the skids and you need to find a new one, that's when you head to business school.
You only get to pull the cord once, so you should wait until it's a near-necessity. I've seen too many young engineers get MBAs thinking it will accelerate their careers who are actually so far from the stage where it will be useful that they will have forgotten everything they learned and everyone they met by the time they get to that point. Even worse are the engineers for whom the MBA has negative value, since they demand a low-paid, often miserable junior managerial position to match their degree.
posted by backupjesus at 8:18 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
You only get to pull the cord once, so you should wait until it's a near-necessity. I've seen too many young engineers get MBAs thinking it will accelerate their careers who are actually so far from the stage where it will be useful that they will have forgotten everything they learned and everyone they met by the time they get to that point. Even worse are the engineers for whom the MBA has negative value, since they demand a low-paid, often miserable junior managerial position to match their degree.
posted by backupjesus at 8:18 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
My experience (as someone working for an oil and gas operator) is that you do not need an MBA to transition into management, especially if you are a petroleum engineer. The industry is so short of younger staff (average age of an O&G employee is 50) that they take any opportunity* to throw senior technical staff into management. However, most of management-level staff I know of either have a Masters or complete a stint in Corporate Strategy or Business Development departments.
*Of course, this might change in 10 years when the price of oil is down to $50 or something.
posted by moiraine at 8:21 AM on May 29, 2013
*Of course, this might change in 10 years when the price of oil is down to $50 or something.
posted by moiraine at 8:21 AM on May 29, 2013
My experience in the oil and gas sector is that most employers will pay for your MBA if they feel like they are grooming you for a senior mgmt position, so the financial commitment may be less of a consideration for you.
posted by tatiana131 at 8:25 AM on May 29, 2013
posted by tatiana131 at 8:25 AM on May 29, 2013
I got my MBA kicking and screaming, but BellSouth, bless their hearts, paid for the whole thing. They even hosted it on site where I worked. It wasn't rigorous, but I did learn a lot, surprisingly so.
It opened a lot of doors for me at that company and subsequently. For someone who had a good liberal arts education, I rolled my eyes a LOT (talk to me about Total Quality Management sometime.)
Here's how I was coerced:
Me: MBA? What rot! And 18 months?
They: 18 months are going to pass anyway.
Me. Oh, alright.
If you can get them to pay for it, what exactly is the downside? The hardest thing was the Stats class, and that wasn't hard at all. I carried my study group through it and we all passed it with little fuss, muss and bother.
As for the old boys already in those high positions, that was a different world my friend, and it exists no more.
You'll get at least $5650 per year towards the degree from your company's Tuition Aid Program. If you time it right, it'll pay for your whole degree, even from a private school.
You don't need one from a good school, you just need one to tick the box.
Do it now, because as much as you don't want to do it now, you REALLY won't want to do it ten years from now.
Check with your company, sometimes they partner with a school and can get a special rate.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:34 AM on May 29, 2013
It opened a lot of doors for me at that company and subsequently. For someone who had a good liberal arts education, I rolled my eyes a LOT (talk to me about Total Quality Management sometime.)
Here's how I was coerced:
Me: MBA? What rot! And 18 months?
They: 18 months are going to pass anyway.
Me. Oh, alright.
If you can get them to pay for it, what exactly is the downside? The hardest thing was the Stats class, and that wasn't hard at all. I carried my study group through it and we all passed it with little fuss, muss and bother.
As for the old boys already in those high positions, that was a different world my friend, and it exists no more.
You'll get at least $5650 per year towards the degree from your company's Tuition Aid Program. If you time it right, it'll pay for your whole degree, even from a private school.
You don't need one from a good school, you just need one to tick the box.
Do it now, because as much as you don't want to do it now, you REALLY won't want to do it ten years from now.
Check with your company, sometimes they partner with a school and can get a special rate.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:34 AM on May 29, 2013
My uncle was a mid level petroleum engineer for a Fortune 100 company. He got his MBA at Princeton, paid for by the company, and went to the upper levels (not C-level). He did this for fifteen years and then quit to become possibly the only public school science teacher in the US who doesn't worry about retirement.
posted by infinitewindow at 8:48 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by infinitewindow at 8:48 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I work in a business where nearly everyone has an MBA - most of my colleagues and former colleagues went to very top tier schools. I did not get an MBA. I was only able to do this because I got lucky and graduated from undergrad during a 2-3 year window of time when my industry was hiring undergrads. I then got lucky again in that people left and I got promoted to a level where it was obvious that getting an MBA would be a waste of time. Many peers of mine who got lucky in step one, but not lucky in step two, still ended up going back to school.
So I got lucky twice - I'd guess the senior folks in your business without an MBA have a similar story. You should ask them. I'm guessing they'd be receptive to a professional email asking for a chat on the subject.
As moiraine points out - its easier to get lucky when times are good. Certainly if I hadn't hit that 3 year window I would have gone back to school.
Getting the MBA for you is perhaps more a risk mitigation exercise than a really NPV positive project.
The good thing is - Business Schools generally love folks like you, and if you decide to leave O&G the more interesting parts of non-quant Finance as well as Consulting like people like you.
posted by JPD at 8:51 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
So I got lucky twice - I'd guess the senior folks in your business without an MBA have a similar story. You should ask them. I'm guessing they'd be receptive to a professional email asking for a chat on the subject.
As moiraine points out - its easier to get lucky when times are good. Certainly if I hadn't hit that 3 year window I would have gone back to school.
Getting the MBA for you is perhaps more a risk mitigation exercise than a really NPV positive project.
The good thing is - Business Schools generally love folks like you, and if you decide to leave O&G the more interesting parts of non-quant Finance as well as Consulting like people like you.
posted by JPD at 8:51 AM on May 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I rose to senior manaement without a college degree. I believe those who can do and those who can't often spend energy filling folders with qualifiations. The MBA's I have worked with have mostly been small talent wannabes.
posted by BenPens at 9:09 AM on May 29, 2013
posted by BenPens at 9:09 AM on May 29, 2013
Best answer: Drop $20 to upgrade your LinkedIn to premium for a month. Make a spreadsheet.
You will be able to view the educational and professional credentials of probably 90% of the VP-level executives of oil & gas majors.
I think you'll find that MBAs are less common than you may have been led to believe. Traditionally upstream energy companies have looked at engineers who are thoughtful about business issues, and reasonably facile socially, as promotable into management. Moreover, many line executive jobs are explicitly or effectively limited to people with a strong technical background (engineering, geology) -- in other words, there may be more management jobs that non-technical MBAs can't get than non-MBA engineers/geologists can't get.
That said, if you're thinking MBA, do avoid executive MBAs. There's a pretty robust offering of top-ranked full MBAs done on weekends (Chicago and Michigan each have them) which are an awesome opportunity.
posted by MattD at 10:59 AM on May 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
You will be able to view the educational and professional credentials of probably 90% of the VP-level executives of oil & gas majors.
I think you'll find that MBAs are less common than you may have been led to believe. Traditionally upstream energy companies have looked at engineers who are thoughtful about business issues, and reasonably facile socially, as promotable into management. Moreover, many line executive jobs are explicitly or effectively limited to people with a strong technical background (engineering, geology) -- in other words, there may be more management jobs that non-technical MBAs can't get than non-MBA engineers/geologists can't get.
That said, if you're thinking MBA, do avoid executive MBAs. There's a pretty robust offering of top-ranked full MBAs done on weekends (Chicago and Michigan each have them) which are an awesome opportunity.
posted by MattD at 10:59 AM on May 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
I work in the Energy industry, and have for many years now. I believe you have been told correctly. You can't really progress to the upper levels of management with only a bachelor degree. I've seen only a very few exceptions, and those were definitely people who got started quite a while ago and worked their way up from the field. That doesn't happen anymore without the degrees.
At one company I worked with recently, pretty much everyone had a masters degree or Ph.D in a geoscience or mathematics just to develop commercial software for petroleum engineers.
Having said all that, I think it would be very smart to put in quite a few years working before you go in for a higher degree. Some companies will pay your way. The industry is going to have lots of changes in the next 15 years. You'll have a much better idea of where in the industry you want to be. Many reasons like that.
posted by Houstonian at 12:21 PM on May 29, 2013
At one company I worked with recently, pretty much everyone had a masters degree or Ph.D in a geoscience or mathematics just to develop commercial software for petroleum engineers.
Having said all that, I think it would be very smart to put in quite a few years working before you go in for a higher degree. Some companies will pay your way. The industry is going to have lots of changes in the next 15 years. You'll have a much better idea of where in the industry you want to be. Many reasons like that.
posted by Houstonian at 12:21 PM on May 29, 2013
I am in senior management on the commercial side of a large independent at present.
I would second getting your LinkedIn sorted, utterly mastering XLS, and investing in a second liver instead of getting a (non company paid for) MBA. I very seriously doubt in the current or coming job market an MBA will be anything more than a check box for an entry level job. In petroleum especially, where you are and who you know is key.
Also and with respect OP, I would strongly advise running away as fast as you can from upstream stuff like reservoir work and getting into something downstream and commercial.
posted by digitalprimate at 12:50 PM on May 29, 2013
I would second getting your LinkedIn sorted, utterly mastering XLS, and investing in a second liver instead of getting a (non company paid for) MBA. I very seriously doubt in the current or coming job market an MBA will be anything more than a check box for an entry level job. In petroleum especially, where you are and who you know is key.
Also and with respect OP, I would strongly advise running away as fast as you can from upstream stuff like reservoir work and getting into something downstream and commercial.
posted by digitalprimate at 12:50 PM on May 29, 2013
« Older Give me that some of that old time fancy pants bar... | My best friend can't come to my wedding. Help me... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
One point to consider - there are acceptable MBAs, and non-acceptable MBAs. Obviously, getting your MBA from an online mill is not going to do anything for you, but even MBAs from very reputable bricks and mortar universities may not help you internally - you have to, you must, figure out which MBA schools are currently in vogue with Management and HR and the associated organizational effectiveness, career planing and career succession team members. One way to do this is understand where your company currently recruits their new hire college MBAs......
posted by lstanley at 7:25 AM on May 29, 2013 [3 favorites]