Home Sales Party- How do I end this sales pitch?
May 22, 2013 4:11 PM Subscribe
My friend will not stop pestering me to invite my friends to her home sales party. How do I navigate this situation without damaging our friendship or leaving one of us feeling bitter?
I am sure other people have been in this situation, and I could use some advice. One of my close friends just got involved in home sales parties (along the lines of Mary Kay). It seems like a good fit for her, as she has a strong personality, a young daughter, and is in need of some extra cash. Personally, I am fine attending one of her parties and buying some overpriced lotion. However, in order to host more parties, she is asking all of her friends to bring their friends over for a "girls night out."
My friends are mostly graduate students and I would never want to put them in a position where they felt guilted into buying (even if money wasn't an issue). After she didn't get the hint when I said I wasn't comfortable setting a party date, I then told my friend less-subtly that none of my other friends were interested in the party/sale. She immediately responded about how "there is absolutely no obligation to buy anything" and I should re-ask them (also adding in that this would be a great opportunity for her to meet and relax with my friends). She has also contacted me several times trying to get me to choose a date and has put this on me, saying "I really need your help in getting my business started. I know you'll help out because you've always been such a good friend to me." I keep saying no, but she isn't having it. She has calculated that at the rate she has been going, she "will be making about $90,000 a year" and is now making plans to quit her job. She has been doing this for less than a month and is typically very level-headed, so I'm really surprised at how indoctrinated she seems.
I'm getting together with my friend this weekend, and she just wrote to me about how we can use some of that time to plan a date for all of my friends to come over. I thought the "none of my friends are interested" spiel would be enough, but clearly it isn't. I'm fairly non-confrontational, so I could really use some advice on what to do when she keeps bringing this up. I really don't want to lose a decade-long friendship over this, but I am at a loss. How do I get my friend to drop this? Advice or even a script would be very much appreciated!
I am sure other people have been in this situation, and I could use some advice. One of my close friends just got involved in home sales parties (along the lines of Mary Kay). It seems like a good fit for her, as she has a strong personality, a young daughter, and is in need of some extra cash. Personally, I am fine attending one of her parties and buying some overpriced lotion. However, in order to host more parties, she is asking all of her friends to bring their friends over for a "girls night out."
My friends are mostly graduate students and I would never want to put them in a position where they felt guilted into buying (even if money wasn't an issue). After she didn't get the hint when I said I wasn't comfortable setting a party date, I then told my friend less-subtly that none of my other friends were interested in the party/sale. She immediately responded about how "there is absolutely no obligation to buy anything" and I should re-ask them (also adding in that this would be a great opportunity for her to meet and relax with my friends). She has also contacted me several times trying to get me to choose a date and has put this on me, saying "I really need your help in getting my business started. I know you'll help out because you've always been such a good friend to me." I keep saying no, but she isn't having it. She has calculated that at the rate she has been going, she "will be making about $90,000 a year" and is now making plans to quit her job. She has been doing this for less than a month and is typically very level-headed, so I'm really surprised at how indoctrinated she seems.
I'm getting together with my friend this weekend, and she just wrote to me about how we can use some of that time to plan a date for all of my friends to come over. I thought the "none of my friends are interested" spiel would be enough, but clearly it isn't. I'm fairly non-confrontational, so I could really use some advice on what to do when she keeps bringing this up. I really don't want to lose a decade-long friendship over this, but I am at a loss. How do I get my friend to drop this? Advice or even a script would be very much appreciated!
Two options:
- Polite deflection: the miss manners-approved "sorry, but that won't be possible."
- Be totally honest with her: "I don't want to invite my friends, who do not have a lot of money, to something where they will feel pressured to buy things that they neither want nor need. I already told you that they were not interested, please stop pushing this."
posted by elizardbits at 4:21 PM on May 22, 2013 [18 favorites]
- Polite deflection: the miss manners-approved "sorry, but that won't be possible."
- Be totally honest with her: "I don't want to invite my friends, who do not have a lot of money, to something where they will feel pressured to buy things that they neither want nor need. I already told you that they were not interested, please stop pushing this."
posted by elizardbits at 4:21 PM on May 22, 2013 [18 favorites]
Best answer: Here's the sort of ironic thing in you asking for a script:
She's already got one.
When you do these kinds of sales jobs, they provide you with training materials on how to deal with the kinds of objections you're raising and get your friends to cave and do what you want them to do. That line about "I know you'll help out because you've always been such a good friend to me" is *straight* out of the book.
So, you've got two choices at this point. The lengthy heartfelt explanation and the Miss Manners approach.
1. "I'm sorry, Jane. I know that getting this business off the ground is important to you, and I wish you well with it, but I'm personally not comfortable with inviting my friends to a sales party, and I hope that you can respect that and stop asking."
2. "I'm sorry it won't be possible for me to host a party." "Why not?" "Because it simply isn't possible." Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Whether this will or won't damage your friendship with her depends largely on how much of the Kool-Aid she has drunk and not on how you handle this. Either deep down she knows she's being pushy and unreasonable or she doesn't.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:21 PM on May 22, 2013 [45 favorites]
She's already got one.
When you do these kinds of sales jobs, they provide you with training materials on how to deal with the kinds of objections you're raising and get your friends to cave and do what you want them to do. That line about "I know you'll help out because you've always been such a good friend to me" is *straight* out of the book.
So, you've got two choices at this point. The lengthy heartfelt explanation and the Miss Manners approach.
1. "I'm sorry, Jane. I know that getting this business off the ground is important to you, and I wish you well with it, but I'm personally not comfortable with inviting my friends to a sales party, and I hope that you can respect that and stop asking."
2. "I'm sorry it won't be possible for me to host a party." "Why not?" "Because it simply isn't possible." Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Whether this will or won't damage your friendship with her depends largely on how much of the Kool-Aid she has drunk and not on how you handle this. Either deep down she knows she's being pushy and unreasonable or she doesn't.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:21 PM on May 22, 2013 [45 favorites]
"For personal reasons, I don't do that."
Just keep repeating it. Do not explain your personal reasons. But if you need to know, your personal reasons are that it's not okay to give up your friends to third parties - not Facebook, not the local tanning salon, not MLM home parties.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:25 PM on May 22, 2013 [7 favorites]
Just keep repeating it. Do not explain your personal reasons. But if you need to know, your personal reasons are that it's not okay to give up your friends to third parties - not Facebook, not the local tanning salon, not MLM home parties.
posted by Lyn Never at 4:25 PM on May 22, 2013 [7 favorites]
I think you have to be super clear, brief, to-the-point, etc. Something like,
"I want to support you, but I am not going to invite friends to these parties. This is something you're excited about, and I support you, but it's not something that is part of my life and I wouldn't be comfortable asking people to be part of it. I understand there is no obligation to buy, but it would feel to awkward to me. Please stop asking. I want to be able to be friends with you without being part of this. I hope you'll understand."
posted by latkes at 4:30 PM on May 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
"I want to support you, but I am not going to invite friends to these parties. This is something you're excited about, and I support you, but it's not something that is part of my life and I wouldn't be comfortable asking people to be part of it. I understand there is no obligation to buy, but it would feel to awkward to me. Please stop asking. I want to be able to be friends with you without being part of this. I hope you'll understand."
posted by latkes at 4:30 PM on May 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm a fan of the "it won't be possible for me to host a party" approach. But "I'm sorry" can just add fuel to the flames. Suzette Elgin calls it "computer mode." Calm voice, calm manner, third person. It. won't. be. possible. to. host. a. party. Over and over, as necessary. Short and simple is best.
If she were my friend, I would try to avoid thinking -- and especially avoid saying out loud -- any kind of irritation or opinion about it being a waste of time or an imposition on her friends or frustrating to listen to her. You're not her therapist, you're her friend. If she's selling overpriced lotion or head or heels in love with an obnoxious bore, you're her friend. You listen, and offer sympathy and love. You can avoid the lotion and the guy, but she's your friend. It'll be your turn to need a little understanding one of these days.
posted by kestralwing at 4:34 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
If she were my friend, I would try to avoid thinking -- and especially avoid saying out loud -- any kind of irritation or opinion about it being a waste of time or an imposition on her friends or frustrating to listen to her. You're not her therapist, you're her friend. If she's selling overpriced lotion or head or heels in love with an obnoxious bore, you're her friend. You listen, and offer sympathy and love. You can avoid the lotion and the guy, but she's your friend. It'll be your turn to need a little understanding one of these days.
posted by kestralwing at 4:34 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have a friend like this, and I just keep telling her that it's not happening. No reason, no politeness. It's. Just. Not. Happening.
"Hey Patheral, want to host this [insert name of] party for me?"
"Nope."
"Why not?"
"Don't want to."
"But you can make..."
"Still not interested."
"But your guests could save..."
"Not happening."
"But you'd be helping me out."
"Sorry, show me a catalog and I'll buy something but not gonna host a party for ya."
Stick to your guns and don't make up reasons. You don't have to defend yourself. If she's a true friend, she won't try to guilt you into it. You never have to do anything you don't want to.
posted by patheral at 4:35 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
"Hey Patheral, want to host this [insert name of] party for me?"
"Nope."
"Why not?"
"Don't want to."
"But you can make..."
"Still not interested."
"But your guests could save..."
"Not happening."
"But you'd be helping me out."
"Sorry, show me a catalog and I'll buy something but not gonna host a party for ya."
Stick to your guns and don't make up reasons. You don't have to defend yourself. If she's a true friend, she won't try to guilt you into it. You never have to do anything you don't want to.
posted by patheral at 4:35 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, keep in mind that if she continues pushing this on you after your clearly-stated objections/refusals, it's not YOU who is damaging the friendship, it's her. She is the one who has decided that profit is more important than a 10-year friendship; you are the one who is working to save it.
posted by elizardbits at 4:41 PM on May 22, 2013 [39 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 4:41 PM on May 22, 2013 [39 favorites]
Best answer: Can you send her an email saying you look forward to seeing her this weekend, but it's not possible for you to host any parties, and you hope she still wants to see you?
I think you need to set the exepectations for this get-together BEFORE you meet up this weekend.
posted by jbenben at 4:45 PM on May 22, 2013 [12 favorites]
I think you need to set the exepectations for this get-together BEFORE you meet up this weekend.
posted by jbenben at 4:45 PM on May 22, 2013 [12 favorites]
"Sorry, I really don't like treating my friends as if they were my customers."
posted by deadmessenger at 4:45 PM on May 22, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by deadmessenger at 4:45 PM on May 22, 2013 [4 favorites]
Just say "no". If she asks again, ask her to please not ask again.
Do not give a reason (eg "not comfortable" "friends do not have a lot of money") because that will invite her to "address your concerns" and get you to say yes.
Just say "no" and ask her not to ask you again.
posted by alms at 4:45 PM on May 22, 2013 [7 favorites]
Do not give a reason (eg "not comfortable" "friends do not have a lot of money") because that will invite her to "address your concerns" and get you to say yes.
Just say "no" and ask her not to ask you again.
posted by alms at 4:45 PM on May 22, 2013 [7 favorites]
I really don't want to lose a decade-long friendship over this
Your friend doesn't feel the same. She hasn't been listening to you and is unlikely to in the future unless you're blunt with her. Stop responding to her requests to hang out if she persists in bugging you. If she agrees to desist and you meet but then she reneges, explain that she broke the terms of the agreement and walk away. Then either suspend the friendship until she gets her head out of her ass, or kill it off completely.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 4:50 PM on May 22, 2013 [6 favorites]
Your friend doesn't feel the same. She hasn't been listening to you and is unlikely to in the future unless you're blunt with her. Stop responding to her requests to hang out if she persists in bugging you. If she agrees to desist and you meet but then she reneges, explain that she broke the terms of the agreement and walk away. Then either suspend the friendship until she gets her head out of her ass, or kill it off completely.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 4:50 PM on May 22, 2013 [6 favorites]
I don't see why you can't ask your friends. They're big girls, they can say no. Or they can come and not buy. If you want to soften it for them, you can tell them that your asking but don't expect them to agree to come. Who knows? Maybe they'll all be glad to show up.
posted by Ideefixe at 4:51 PM on May 22, 2013
posted by Ideefixe at 4:51 PM on May 22, 2013
Best answer: OP said she's not comfortable with the idea of doing so. That's why she can't ask her friends.
posted by elizardbits at 4:55 PM on May 22, 2013 [39 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 4:55 PM on May 22, 2013 [39 favorites]
I'd say something like this the next time she asks: "I know this matters to you, and I've told you I can't invite my friends. I need you to stop bringing this up."
If she persists after that: "Our friendship means a lot to me, and I believe it also means a lot to you, but right now you're not treating me with respect, so I need to go. Let's talk again later." And then leave/hang up.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:57 PM on May 22, 2013 [11 favorites]
If she persists after that: "Our friendship means a lot to me, and I believe it also means a lot to you, but right now you're not treating me with respect, so I need to go. Let's talk again later." And then leave/hang up.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:57 PM on May 22, 2013 [11 favorites]
I initially felt bad about declining an acquaintance's "offer" for me to host a Kitchen Knife Party at my house for my friends. I told him that there's no way I would do that. He stepped up the pressure with various "overcoming objections" stuff from his playbook, just as patheral describes.
I finally asked him what a complete set of his knives would cost, thinking I might buy one to get him off my back. He answered, "$970."
That freed me to tell him to fuck off.
All of which is to say, don't you give one thought to alienating your "friend." Friends don't put friends in awkward, embarrassing positions like this.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:03 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I finally asked him what a complete set of his knives would cost, thinking I might buy one to get him off my back. He answered, "$970."
That freed me to tell him to fuck off.
All of which is to say, don't you give one thought to alienating your "friend." Friends don't put friends in awkward, embarrassing positions like this.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:03 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The problem with these sorts of business models is that they intentionally conflate two different categories of people: friends and customers. There is a socially accepted way of dealing with friends, which involves mutual support and caring deeply about one another's well-being. There is also a socially accepted way of dealing with customers and business associates, which involves getting along for the sake of being able to smoothly complete mutually beneficial financial transactions. You can genuinely like your customers, but your relationship with them is primarily based on exchanging money for goods and services, not based on having shared feelings for one another.
These home sales businesses count on people being able to use their friends' feelings of caring and love to transact business. In other words, your friend is talking to you like a friend--discussing the support you've always given her, expressing her desire to get to know your friends and be a bigger part of your life--but you're getting the sense that the reason she's doing it is not because she likes you and wants to be closer to you, but rather because it benefits her financially. That's the cause of your discomfort: you can sense that she's not being genuine when she expresses her affection for you and says the words that close friends would say.
Basically, whether she intends to or not, your friend is using you. And that's not cool. And she won't admit that she's doing it, maybe because she doesn't fully understand it herself. If she were, for example, repeatedly trying to borrow money from you and then giving you a guilt trip when you refused, it would be more obvious, and it would be easier for you to pin down exactly what she's doing wrong. But this is more subtle, and therefore more insidious.
I think that the only thing you can do is be absolutely straight with her. "Friend, I will not be participating in your business. I need for you to stop asking and stop bringing it up. I will absolutely support you emotionally, just as I always have, and I'm really happy for you that you've found something you like doing. But I am not interested in turning my friendships into business relationships, and so I need for you to stop asking me to use my friends as potential customers for your business." After that, just refuse to discuss it anymore. "I've told you that I won't be participating in that." And if she brings it up again, "I won't be talking about this with you anymore. Shall we change the subject, or would you like to stop talking now?" Don't interact with her when she's in business mode, rather than friend mode. Just leave.
She is trying to turn your friendship into a business transaction. If she refuses to stop doing that and refuses to treat you as a friend, she's the one who has stopped being your friend, not the other way around.
posted by decathecting at 5:07 PM on May 22, 2013 [42 favorites]
These home sales businesses count on people being able to use their friends' feelings of caring and love to transact business. In other words, your friend is talking to you like a friend--discussing the support you've always given her, expressing her desire to get to know your friends and be a bigger part of your life--but you're getting the sense that the reason she's doing it is not because she likes you and wants to be closer to you, but rather because it benefits her financially. That's the cause of your discomfort: you can sense that she's not being genuine when she expresses her affection for you and says the words that close friends would say.
Basically, whether she intends to or not, your friend is using you. And that's not cool. And she won't admit that she's doing it, maybe because she doesn't fully understand it herself. If she were, for example, repeatedly trying to borrow money from you and then giving you a guilt trip when you refused, it would be more obvious, and it would be easier for you to pin down exactly what she's doing wrong. But this is more subtle, and therefore more insidious.
I think that the only thing you can do is be absolutely straight with her. "Friend, I will not be participating in your business. I need for you to stop asking and stop bringing it up. I will absolutely support you emotionally, just as I always have, and I'm really happy for you that you've found something you like doing. But I am not interested in turning my friendships into business relationships, and so I need for you to stop asking me to use my friends as potential customers for your business." After that, just refuse to discuss it anymore. "I've told you that I won't be participating in that." And if she brings it up again, "I won't be talking about this with you anymore. Shall we change the subject, or would you like to stop talking now?" Don't interact with her when she's in business mode, rather than friend mode. Just leave.
She is trying to turn your friendship into a business transaction. If she refuses to stop doing that and refuses to treat you as a friend, she's the one who has stopped being your friend, not the other way around.
posted by decathecting at 5:07 PM on May 22, 2013 [42 favorites]
I think just say 'I'm not comfortable doing that'. Saying 'that won't be possible' always sounds weird to me as technically it IS possible. But the idea makes you uncomfortable. So say that. And just leave it at that, or expand to 'maybe that's weird, but that's the way I feel'. End of discussion.
posted by bquarters at 5:17 PM on May 22, 2013
posted by bquarters at 5:17 PM on May 22, 2013
I don't see why you can't ask your friends. They're big girls, they can say no.
karyotypical is also saying no.
posted by grouse at 5:24 PM on May 22, 2013 [12 favorites]
karyotypical is also saying no.
posted by grouse at 5:24 PM on May 22, 2013 [12 favorites]
"I really need your help in getting my business started. I know you'll help out because you've always been such a good friend to me."
Whenever someone says something like that to me, I immediately say, "Wow, that was a pretty manipulative thing to say, and I think you know it. Please do not try to literally cash in our friendship in this way, especially since I have told you many times that I want no part of this and neither do my friends. I'm really hurt and offended by your behavior right now, and I am not interested in talking about this anymore, so please stop asking."
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 5:30 PM on May 22, 2013 [17 favorites]
Whenever someone says something like that to me, I immediately say, "Wow, that was a pretty manipulative thing to say, and I think you know it. Please do not try to literally cash in our friendship in this way, especially since I have told you many times that I want no part of this and neither do my friends. I'm really hurt and offended by your behavior right now, and I am not interested in talking about this anymore, so please stop asking."
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 5:30 PM on May 22, 2013 [17 favorites]
I can't tell whether you've said 'none of your friends are interested' or 'I am not interested.' Tell her you don't want to do it. Then tell you don't want to talk about it again.
posted by bq at 5:30 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 5:30 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh, and if this person still ignored your protests, consider saying, "It sounds like you have decided to choose your business over our friendship and that makes me really sad. You have been so disrespectful in ignoring my refusals, and I don't think you realize the extent to which you've impacted our friendship. I am not interested now, and will not be interested in the future. Please get in touch only when you are able to talk about something other than your growing business. I wish you luck in all your endeavors."
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 5:37 PM on May 22, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 5:37 PM on May 22, 2013 [6 favorites]
A whole bunch of my mom-friends (ie, friends that I had because we were all mothers of similar-aged children) drank the pyramid-scheme Kool-Aid at the same time and were all selling highly overpriced makeup and skin care for a time. I was invited to several "no obligation" parties that nevertheless put the screws on for the "guests" to either host parties themselves, or to purchase one or several of the miracle products.
I felt like a sucker because I did actually buy some things (none of which performed any miracles whatsoever) and eventually all the moms either dropped off my radar or stopped shilling for home product parties. Your friend will probably move on too. Just keep saying "no thank you" or "sorry that won't work" with a smile. I still feel taken advantage of by these "friends" even though I am a big girl and could have said no, as referenced above. I don't like having my friendship traded on that way.
posted by 41swans at 5:38 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
I felt like a sucker because I did actually buy some things (none of which performed any miracles whatsoever) and eventually all the moms either dropped off my radar or stopped shilling for home product parties. Your friend will probably move on too. Just keep saying "no thank you" or "sorry that won't work" with a smile. I still feel taken advantage of by these "friends" even though I am a big girl and could have said no, as referenced above. I don't like having my friendship traded on that way.
posted by 41swans at 5:38 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Condolences. I had a friend who went through some of this. We weren't that tight to start with and I ended up avoiding him until I moved away. I hear he got over it eventually. Your friend probably will also.
I saw that you dislike confrontation, but I think you'll have to say something blunt if you want her to quit asking you. Anything other than a very clear "I have made up my mind and the answer is no" is going to be treated as a "ask me again later".
Or you could just avoid her for a while and hope she sobers up in a few months.
Warning, this weekend get together may not be anything like what you expect. I got suckered a couple different times into thinking I was hanging out when I actually ended up getting a sales pitch. If you end up feeling really stung and used, I suggest saying something. I didn't, but I wish I had. Nicer for your self respect, and really your friend ought to hear it for her own sake too.
Like others have said, she's being the jerk here. Don't feel bad standing your ground, even if the friendship sours. (That may also be temporary, if it happens.)
posted by mattu at 5:48 PM on May 22, 2013
I saw that you dislike confrontation, but I think you'll have to say something blunt if you want her to quit asking you. Anything other than a very clear "I have made up my mind and the answer is no" is going to be treated as a "ask me again later".
Or you could just avoid her for a while and hope she sobers up in a few months.
Warning, this weekend get together may not be anything like what you expect. I got suckered a couple different times into thinking I was hanging out when I actually ended up getting a sales pitch. If you end up feeling really stung and used, I suggest saying something. I didn't, but I wish I had. Nicer for your self respect, and really your friend ought to hear it for her own sake too.
Like others have said, she's being the jerk here. Don't feel bad standing your ground, even if the friendship sours. (That may also be temporary, if it happens.)
posted by mattu at 5:48 PM on May 22, 2013
i would tell her "i have already told you i am not interested in hosting a party and i need you to stop bringing this up because it is starting to affect our friendship". tell her this before this weekend maybe in an email. feel free to preface it with how much you value your friendship with her and that you still want to hang out this weekend.
ok, how about something like this:
ok, how about something like this:
"i really value our friendship and consider you one of my dearest friends. i did want to mention before we get together that i have already told you several times that i am not interested in hosting a party for your sales venture and i do need you to stop bringing this up. if you continue asking me i am concerned it is going to start affecting our friendship negatively. i don't want to see that happen. i still very much want to hang out with you this weekend and am looking forward to it."posted by wildflower at 5:59 PM on May 22, 2013 [4 favorites]
If this were any friend of mine, I'd have to giggle and say, "You're kidding at this point, right? Totally not happening." If she didn't also start laughing, I'd raise my eyebrows and say, "Ohhhh. You weren't kidding. Soooo, how's your Mom?"
posted by houseofdanie at 6:01 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by houseofdanie at 6:01 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
"Sorry, I don't mix business with friendship. Friends are friends and customers are customers. These are my principles, end of story. Never ask me to break my principles, because I want to stay friends. Nice weather we're having, I was thinking of going for trip, how about you?"
posted by VikingSword at 6:03 PM on May 22, 2013
posted by VikingSword at 6:03 PM on May 22, 2013
"Look: I care enough about you that I'm willing to let you convert our relationship into a business asset, but I am not going to convert my relationships with other people into assets for your business."
That's the essential premise of these sorts of schemes: from a soulless capitalist perspective some of the most valuable assets that many people have are their personal relationships with others, so if you can communicate that message (which is actually true, if you're measuring everything in the world as quantifiable assets) and can persuade people to monetize those relationships and let you skim a percentage off as they're doing it, you can make the big buxx. It's sort of like generating power from the heat of burning bridges.
It's a variation on a traditional approach for exploiting salespeople - you hire them and twist their arms to get them to use all of their old contacts from earlier in their careers as leads to sell your products, then once they've created a few customers for you and their entire rolodex is in your company's contact database you lay them off and hire the next set of patsies. It avoids the expense and effort of developing a marketing department or other lead-generating organization.
posted by XMLicious at 6:10 PM on May 22, 2013 [8 favorites]
That's the essential premise of these sorts of schemes: from a soulless capitalist perspective some of the most valuable assets that many people have are their personal relationships with others, so if you can communicate that message (which is actually true, if you're measuring everything in the world as quantifiable assets) and can persuade people to monetize those relationships and let you skim a percentage off as they're doing it, you can make the big buxx. It's sort of like generating power from the heat of burning bridges.
It's a variation on a traditional approach for exploiting salespeople - you hire them and twist their arms to get them to use all of their old contacts from earlier in their careers as leads to sell your products, then once they've created a few customers for you and their entire rolodex is in your company's contact database you lay them off and hire the next set of patsies. It avoids the expense and effort of developing a marketing department or other lead-generating organization.
posted by XMLicious at 6:10 PM on May 22, 2013 [8 favorites]
'I don't want to be a part of this scam and I refuse to embarrass myself by asking friends. Frankly I thought you were smarter than this. If you mention it again I can only assume you WANT to annoy me.'
posted by ian1977 at 6:14 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 6:14 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
"I really need your help in getting my business started. I know you'll help out because you've always been such a good friend to me."
I'll be honest, if someone uses that line on you, I'm not sure how much friendship there is to save. I know that if someone basically told me that I was a possible profit center so bluntly I wouldn't be able to see them the same way as before.
posted by winna at 6:15 PM on May 22, 2013 [9 favorites]
I'll be honest, if someone uses that line on you, I'm not sure how much friendship there is to save. I know that if someone basically told me that I was a possible profit center so bluntly I wouldn't be able to see them the same way as before.
posted by winna at 6:15 PM on May 22, 2013 [9 favorites]
Best answer: A friend of mine has also just started on one of these programs, and it's for a thing that is overpriced and not even that well-made. (Non-edible, sadly!) I am glad to support her and I'll probably end up with a widget from her company, but I have been refusing to host a party. In part this is because the host has to lay out food and drinks and have strangers over, and I'm not okay with that, and because the reward is just a discount on the widgets. She loves them, though, and she's really excited about it. However, she's not pushing it like this. Even the parents of Girl Scouts don't hustle the cookies like these programs do, frankly.
"I'm really sorry, but before we get together this weekend, I need to make it clear that I cannot host a party for your product. I'm so glad to see you be this excited, but I'm not comfortable mixing profits and friendships, and that's the end of it. Are you still up for drinks?"
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:17 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
"I'm really sorry, but before we get together this weekend, I need to make it clear that I cannot host a party for your product. I'm so glad to see you be this excited, but I'm not comfortable mixing profits and friendships, and that's the end of it. Are you still up for drinks?"
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:17 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I say, "I don't do sales parties." "But what if --" "Ever." "But --" "No."
Every time they ask, I repeat, "I don't do sales parties." They usually only ask two or three times.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:22 PM on May 22, 2013 [11 favorites]
Every time they ask, I repeat, "I don't do sales parties." They usually only ask two or three times.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:22 PM on May 22, 2013 [11 favorites]
Lie. Just tell her you've mentioned whatever brand/product line it is to your friends in regard to attending a social evening highlighting all the wonderful benefits of purchasing and using said brand/product line, and the response was extremely underwhelming - in fact, you may have even heard some feigned gagging - perhaps it was just someone clearing their throat, but you're a little unsure. Of course, you're more than happy to support her new business venture by attending a party or buying a ridiculously overpriced lotion or potion yourself - on the perfectly reasonable condition she can offer a payment plan with affordable installments. Good luck.
posted by Nibiru at 6:31 PM on May 22, 2013
posted by Nibiru at 6:31 PM on May 22, 2013
I agree that "I'm not comfortable doing that" sounds less rote than "that won't be possible." If she persists, remind her that you said that would make you feel uncomfortable and friends don't pressure friends to do things that make them feel uncomfortable. Good luck!
posted by kat518 at 6:36 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by kat518 at 6:36 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Whoa, whoa, whoa, I have done sales like this and had friends of mine try to sell me on these things. Just say NO.
"Girlfriend, NO! I don't care what you're selling, it sounds like 30 pounds of roses in a 5 pound bag of shit, and I am not buying it! And I refuse to sell it to my friends, either! SNAP!"
That's it. Just say NO to the home sell. We've all been there, done that, and you just have to say NO.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:35 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
"Girlfriend, NO! I don't care what you're selling, it sounds like 30 pounds of roses in a 5 pound bag of shit, and I am not buying it! And I refuse to sell it to my friends, either! SNAP!"
That's it. Just say NO to the home sell. We've all been there, done that, and you just have to say NO.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:35 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
My mom did one of these things. She actually did make decent money in the beginning (assuming she had fun doing it and didn't count all her time spent as "work") but she eventually stopped because asking friends and acquaintances to have "parties" was hard for her. She really wasn't good at the hard sell, and the woman who recruited her (and got commission from my mom's sales) was very into the hard sell. It also just gets a lot more difficult once the low-hanging fruit is gone. All your friends have had parties, you'd tried to recruit at the parties and you reach a dead end where it's hard to keep going. I understand your friend's enthusiasm and her pushiness, and I understand yours because I would never have a party.
Maybe as a compromise ask for the catalog and say you'll share it with friends or co-workers and see if they want to place any orders. I think you can just say you're happy to go and support her though and leave it at that. If she keeps pressing, say you're not comfortable with it and you know she wouldn't force you to do something you're not comfortable with because she's been such a good friend. ;) I'm kidding, I'm not sure you can say that, but you could be honest: it's no obligation to buy, but it kind of is. It's not an official obligation, but the pressure to be polite and buy is there and you aren't going to put your friends through that. Honestly, she is not going to make $90,000 and it serves her well to know how hard it's going to be to convince people to come to this parties, let alone host them.
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:14 PM on May 22, 2013
Maybe as a compromise ask for the catalog and say you'll share it with friends or co-workers and see if they want to place any orders. I think you can just say you're happy to go and support her though and leave it at that. If she keeps pressing, say you're not comfortable with it and you know she wouldn't force you to do something you're not comfortable with because she's been such a good friend. ;) I'm kidding, I'm not sure you can say that, but you could be honest: it's no obligation to buy, but it kind of is. It's not an official obligation, but the pressure to be polite and buy is there and you aren't going to put your friends through that. Honestly, she is not going to make $90,000 and it serves her well to know how hard it's going to be to convince people to come to this parties, let alone host them.
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:14 PM on May 22, 2013
But you SHOULD host the party! It could be a really fun girls night. Especially if every one of your friends also brings THEIR MLM products to pitch. I suggest you have some packets of seeds onhand for the night.
posted by Sophont at 8:17 PM on May 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Sophont at 8:17 PM on May 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
There are so many excellent answers above, you can pretty much just choose the one you're most comfortable with and copy/paste it in an email to your friend. When I was younger, I was fairly non-confrontational too, and I found writing a quick note or email much less intimidating than looking someone in the eyes and "being mean" or possibly "hurting their feelings". However, before I'd learned to stand up for myself and deflect this kind of aggressively pushy behavior, I was suckered into attending a lot of these "no obligation to buy" parties and spend money I didn't have by various friends and neighbors. Every single one of those parties made me feel like shit afterwards because there was always some high pressure closer-type one would be forced to deal with before leaving, usually the boss of the person who'd invited me and they knew just the right words and slimy techniques to use to make me feel like a bad friend if I didn't cave.
If you do cave, eventually you'll be known as a softie or a mark and you can expect to be pressured by every single pushy friend, relative, neighbor, and work associate you know to attend their stupid sales parties too. After a few years of this abuse -- because that's what it is; your so-called friend is abusing your relationship by flatly ignoring your repeated wishes -- I became so bitter, I practically laughed in my "friend's" (Amway) manager's face after just five minutes of his spiel. I didn't, but I came close. He kept at me for over an hour, exhorting, pleading, and sweating bullets, but the look of polite bemusement never left my face. My "friend" and he finally got the message that I wasn't interested in joining their team, so I wished them luck and left.
The bad news is that our friendship never fully recovered because I finally saw the light and realized how low she was willing to go to make money off of a supposedly good friend; we didn't hang out as much because I was of little use to her then and she eventually faded away. The good news is that I finally enjoyed one of those stupid parties! Watching that Amway guy sweat while I repeatedly turned him down was one of the highlights of my life and taught me how empowering it is to deny someone the ability to manipulate you. Nowadays, when confronted with such obnoxiously aggressive behavior, I don't even bat an eye; a brusque shake of the head with my hand in the "stop" position is all it takes for pushy people to back off and leave me alone. Learning this valuable skill vastly improved the quality of my life. True friends stuck around and the users dropped me like a hot potato. Win/win!
posted by LuckySeven~ at 8:28 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you do cave, eventually you'll be known as a softie or a mark and you can expect to be pressured by every single pushy friend, relative, neighbor, and work associate you know to attend their stupid sales parties too. After a few years of this abuse -- because that's what it is; your so-called friend is abusing your relationship by flatly ignoring your repeated wishes -- I became so bitter, I practically laughed in my "friend's" (Amway) manager's face after just five minutes of his spiel. I didn't, but I came close. He kept at me for over an hour, exhorting, pleading, and sweating bullets, but the look of polite bemusement never left my face. My "friend" and he finally got the message that I wasn't interested in joining their team, so I wished them luck and left.
The bad news is that our friendship never fully recovered because I finally saw the light and realized how low she was willing to go to make money off of a supposedly good friend; we didn't hang out as much because I was of little use to her then and she eventually faded away. The good news is that I finally enjoyed one of those stupid parties! Watching that Amway guy sweat while I repeatedly turned him down was one of the highlights of my life and taught me how empowering it is to deny someone the ability to manipulate you. Nowadays, when confronted with such obnoxiously aggressive behavior, I don't even bat an eye; a brusque shake of the head with my hand in the "stop" position is all it takes for pushy people to back off and leave me alone. Learning this valuable skill vastly improved the quality of my life. True friends stuck around and the users dropped me like a hot potato. Win/win!
posted by LuckySeven~ at 8:28 PM on May 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Haha... I like Sophont's answer. Say you'll invite your friends, but only if they're allowed to sell their cosmetics, jewelry, candles, etc. (Well, they are grad students after all, who need money!) In all seriousness, your friend should respect your answer and decision. If she keeps nagging, stand your ground and firmly tell her no, that you want to be a polite, caring, kind friend who doesn't harass their friends into going to home sales parties. All else fails, they have finals coming up, family graduation parties, they're all busy. Yes, it's a fib, but they'd probably tell you the same thing if you did ask them to go to the party.
posted by lawgirl at 8:40 PM on May 22, 2013
posted by lawgirl at 8:40 PM on May 22, 2013
Best answer: Let me tell you what happens if you DID invite a bunch of poor college students over for a party. I can tell you this because my poor college student roommate did, and invited her poor college student friends...and me, who lived there and was the only one who graduated and had a job.
Nobody except me could afford to buy anything, and then I got super pressured because if the party thrower didn't sell a minimum of $150 worth of crap, not only would the party hostess not get her free gift, the party thrower DOES NOT GET PAID. Yes, she owes THEM money, apparently, not the other way around. And just showing up at one of those things is a whopping social obligation to start shelling out, for that reason. It is not obligation-free. It's not quite as bad as the time where my mother and I were driven to the middle of nowhere by timeshare people who would not let us leave until my mother put down a bare minimum of cash, but it was pretty close.
Feel free to share my story with her if she keeps pushing this. If your friends can't pay, she doesn't get paid either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:04 PM on May 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
Nobody except me could afford to buy anything, and then I got super pressured because if the party thrower didn't sell a minimum of $150 worth of crap, not only would the party hostess not get her free gift, the party thrower DOES NOT GET PAID. Yes, she owes THEM money, apparently, not the other way around. And just showing up at one of those things is a whopping social obligation to start shelling out, for that reason. It is not obligation-free. It's not quite as bad as the time where my mother and I were driven to the middle of nowhere by timeshare people who would not let us leave until my mother put down a bare minimum of cash, but it was pretty close.
Feel free to share my story with her if she keeps pushing this. If your friends can't pay, she doesn't get paid either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:04 PM on May 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
There's a lot of good suggestions. I've used something along the lines of Eyebrows McGee's response - I just don't do sales parties, I don't pimp out my friends. I've been to some but have only bought things I actually thought I needed/coveted. Fortunately my friends are reasonably understanding. If you feel like being really extra firm, you could say, "I can't host a party for you. It's against my ethical beliefs."
posted by Athanassiel at 10:01 PM on May 22, 2013
posted by Athanassiel at 10:01 PM on May 22, 2013
Response by poster: Wow, wow, wow! I had to leave for the evening, and did not expect to come back to as many awesome answers as I now have. Thank you, truly. Practically all of these could be marked as best answer, but I really appreciated jacquilynne pointing out that my friend already has a script (it really feels like she does- she talked for 10-plus minutes without pause the first time she gave me her sales pitch). And decathecting really hit the nail on the head about why I feel so weird about the whole situation- suddenly our friendship is a way for her to make money :/ Also, thanks to elizardbits for some really great advice about the state of the friendship.
I've decided to take the advice of several people and to email her tomorrow morning. That way I can clear the air ahead of time and just reinforce my stance when we get together, if need be. I'm really nervous for her response, but perhaps my trepidation is a sign that this isn't the most evenly balanced friendship. I'm planning a combination of "my friends still aren't interested" and also a "I am so excited that your business is taking off and would be happy to come to a party you host, but I don't feel comfortable asking other people to attend as well. I hope you understand and I look forward to seeing you this weekend." If this isn't blunt enough, let me know. I'll update the outcome when I hear back.
posted by karyotypical at 10:08 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
I've decided to take the advice of several people and to email her tomorrow morning. That way I can clear the air ahead of time and just reinforce my stance when we get together, if need be. I'm really nervous for her response, but perhaps my trepidation is a sign that this isn't the most evenly balanced friendship. I'm planning a combination of "my friends still aren't interested" and also a "I am so excited that your business is taking off and would be happy to come to a party you host, but I don't feel comfortable asking other people to attend as well. I hope you understand and I look forward to seeing you this weekend." If this isn't blunt enough, let me know. I'll update the outcome when I hear back.
posted by karyotypical at 10:08 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would be tempted to actually do exactly what jenfullmoon is advising against, just because this person seems to need a lesson in not using her friends. Go ahead, let her twist your arm against your will and throw the party. Invite your brokest college friends. When absolutely no one buys anything and your friend the has to pay for the privilege of working, tell her you never wanted to do this, you don't appreciate being used and maybe she will reconsider next time before trying to make money off her friends. If she doesn't like wasting her time at a pointless MLM party, what makes her think anyone else does?
posted by Jubey at 11:42 PM on May 22, 2013
posted by Jubey at 11:42 PM on May 22, 2013
Just wanted to add a simple point that addresses your question title.
It is not your sales pitch! You can not end it.
You can only decide to listen to it or to stop listening to it.
posted by jazh at 12:57 AM on May 23, 2013
It is not your sales pitch! You can not end it.
You can only decide to listen to it or to stop listening to it.
posted by jazh at 12:57 AM on May 23, 2013
There's always this: "okay, I'll invite my friends that I think will be interested, although I can't promise any of them will attend."
Then invite nobody, because you know that none of your friends would be interested.
posted by davejay at 1:04 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
Then invite nobody, because you know that none of your friends would be interested.
posted by davejay at 1:04 AM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
As someone says above, these companies give their salespeople a script: you say you don't want to, they ask why not; you say why, they come back with a reason; for everything you say, there's a scripted response.
So.... go off their script. When asked (badgered!) to attend, say no, you don't want to; when asked why, say you don't want to; whatever the next question, reply you don't want to. For every salesperson question, the answer is you don't want to. Same for insisting you bring your friends: you don't want to, you don't want to, you don't want to. Or if you prefer, for a blunter approach, to every question/demand your answer is always a flat NO.
I wouldn't even take a catalog to show it to other people; maybe take one for yourself, but keep the sharp divide between this person and all your other friends.
posted by easily confused at 2:43 AM on May 23, 2013
So.... go off their script. When asked (badgered!) to attend, say no, you don't want to; when asked why, say you don't want to; whatever the next question, reply you don't want to. For every salesperson question, the answer is you don't want to. Same for insisting you bring your friends: you don't want to, you don't want to, you don't want to. Or if you prefer, for a blunter approach, to every question/demand your answer is always a flat NO.
I wouldn't even take a catalog to show it to other people; maybe take one for yourself, but keep the sharp divide between this person and all your other friends.
posted by easily confused at 2:43 AM on May 23, 2013
If blunt does' nt work try blunter, if that doesn't work move on to bluntest.
These sales activities are a pain.
You will not be the first to lose a friend to them.
Better new friends than an old friend who has become a fool.
posted by BenPens at 3:55 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
These sales activities are a pain.
You will not be the first to lose a friend to them.
Better new friends than an old friend who has become a fool.
posted by BenPens at 3:55 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also recognize that the sales scripts take advantage of people's discomfort at calling the "friend" on their tactics. You say you're generally non-confrontational, which means you're unfortunately an ideal target for a pitch. Dissuading your friend will require a certain (hopefully brief) period of social discomfort. When you feel it, remember it's not you, but the script and the tactic that's making you feel this way.
posted by itstheclamsname at 4:49 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by itstheclamsname at 4:49 AM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]
I had the same experience as jenfullmoon -- I attended a good friend's jewelry-selling party, figuring I could just buy a pair of earrings or something, and the pressure that the salesperson (not my friend, the woman from the company who was running the party) put on everyone, and on me personally, was unbelievable. Not just the "don't you want your friend to reach her quota so she'll get all these fabulous rewards??" but the pressure to sign on to host a party. The salesperson went so far as to pull me aside and grill me about why I wouldn't agree to host a party in my tiny apartment, and kept following me around trying to convince me until I was visibly uncomfortable. That alone is a reason why I would never, ever invite friends to something like that -- if you don't spend a ton of money and/ or sign up for the sales thing yourself, you aren't gonna have a good time, I promise.
posted by sarcasticah at 2:43 PM on May 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by sarcasticah at 2:43 PM on May 23, 2013 [3 favorites]
OP, is there anyone that your friend can invite to the party that she knows? She's putting a lot of pressure on you to invite your friends, but does she have any friends of her own or even family members she can invite? You said she has a young daughter, so maybe she knows some other moms? It might help to gently suggest that while your friends are busy, perhaps she can ask her sister-in-law or her neighbor. I don't think she's going to be very good at this attempt of being a saleswoman if she can't even ask people herself about the party and instead makes other people do the work for her. (Or if you do invite your friends, you're doing work and therefore want a cut of the profits- that might end her nagging.)
posted by lawgirl at 4:55 PM on May 23, 2013
posted by lawgirl at 4:55 PM on May 23, 2013
Oh, she'll already be hassling all of those people to host their own parties with their own friends. That's how these things work.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:17 PM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 6:17 PM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
If your email doesn't work, I'd try something along the lines of "We've been friends for a long time, so I feel like I can tell you the truth. I don't want to host a party. I've tried several times to be really polite, but you don't seem to be accepting my answer. I'm really glad that you're excited about this new job, but I just can't participate more than I already have. I'd really still like to go out this weekend, if you're up for it, but please, no more harassing me about a party."
I always feel like that intro about "I feel like I can tell you" psychologically allows me to put aside my non-confrontational instincts and softens the blow a little bit. Sort of like "I don't mean to offend anybody, but...." allows some people to just go ahead and be offensive.
posted by CathyG at 3:27 PM on May 24, 2013
I always feel like that intro about "I feel like I can tell you" psychologically allows me to put aside my non-confrontational instincts and softens the blow a little bit. Sort of like "I don't mean to offend anybody, but...." allows some people to just go ahead and be offensive.
posted by CathyG at 3:27 PM on May 24, 2013
« Older Help me create the perfect Appalachian playlist | I don't understand the question, and I won't... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
She will figure it out eventually, everyone (mostly) seems to. Stick to your guns and avoid her until it blows over.
posted by amanda at 4:19 PM on May 22, 2013 [2 favorites]