What to do when girlfriend and brother don't get along?
May 16, 2013 9:22 AM Subscribe
I'm having trouble getting everyone to get along.
I've been with my girlfriend for 1.5 years, the latter half of which my brother has been living in the same city. My family is from a culture where families are close-knit, and spend a lot of time with each other; while my girlfriend isn't.
GF and I care a lot about each other, and see things moving towards marriage and family. Brother and I share a remarkable amount of empathy and have things in common; we're the same age and grew up together for 23 years.
GF has an anxiety issue where she can become abrasive under stressful conditions, and this has caused conflict between my brother and her, and between her and me. She sometimes gets offended easily too. My brother has been very supportive of my relationship, and has forgiven things where we both thought she was being a little unreasonable. She's not a bad person at all however, she just has some faults. So do I of course, and so does my brother, but to a lesser extent.
Because of the close relationship I have with my brother, and the type of family we have, the recent transition period that came along with GF and I moving together has been a bit bumpy. I'm having trouble trying to balance things and keep everyone getting along.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm having trouble moving from being "a part of a family" and making that my number 1 priority, to being "part of a couple" and making that my number 1 priority, or at least tied for 1 with my family. A lot of it might have to do with the different cultures. Some of it has to do with my GF. A little less of it has to my brother, and some with me.
I guess I lived in a dreamworld where everyone got along, and loved spending time with each other, and stuff like that. But it's gotten to a point where my brother doesn't want to hang out with the 3 of us because he's afraid that my GF will get annoyed at any little thing he didn't mean to be offensive. I also have trouble picking a side and trying to be objective, because I care about them both greatly.
I hate that it's like this and I don't know if my relationship with my GF is sustainable because I love my brother very much, and I wish I could mend things.
Has anyone been through anything like this? Any advice?
I've been with my girlfriend for 1.5 years, the latter half of which my brother has been living in the same city. My family is from a culture where families are close-knit, and spend a lot of time with each other; while my girlfriend isn't.
GF and I care a lot about each other, and see things moving towards marriage and family. Brother and I share a remarkable amount of empathy and have things in common; we're the same age and grew up together for 23 years.
GF has an anxiety issue where she can become abrasive under stressful conditions, and this has caused conflict between my brother and her, and between her and me. She sometimes gets offended easily too. My brother has been very supportive of my relationship, and has forgiven things where we both thought she was being a little unreasonable. She's not a bad person at all however, she just has some faults. So do I of course, and so does my brother, but to a lesser extent.
Because of the close relationship I have with my brother, and the type of family we have, the recent transition period that came along with GF and I moving together has been a bit bumpy. I'm having trouble trying to balance things and keep everyone getting along.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm having trouble moving from being "a part of a family" and making that my number 1 priority, to being "part of a couple" and making that my number 1 priority, or at least tied for 1 with my family. A lot of it might have to do with the different cultures. Some of it has to do with my GF. A little less of it has to my brother, and some with me.
I guess I lived in a dreamworld where everyone got along, and loved spending time with each other, and stuff like that. But it's gotten to a point where my brother doesn't want to hang out with the 3 of us because he's afraid that my GF will get annoyed at any little thing he didn't mean to be offensive. I also have trouble picking a side and trying to be objective, because I care about them both greatly.
I hate that it's like this and I don't know if my relationship with my GF is sustainable because I love my brother very much, and I wish I could mend things.
Has anyone been through anything like this? Any advice?
It sounds like your brother is trying and that your GF is calling the shots. Have you discussed this with your GF? Have you pointed out to her that when she's stressed that she says things that hurt other people's feelings? If not, why not?
This won't get better if you ignore it. Also, how into your culture is your GF? Will she willingly jump on the family fun bandwagon, or not? If she's not willing to do this, if she won't meet you half-way on the amount of family togetherness you would like, then it's a HUGE issue in your relationship and it needs to be resolved.
Frankly, the amount of mixing and mingling one does with one's family is a rather bedrock value. Work it out now, before your relationship goes any further.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:40 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
This won't get better if you ignore it. Also, how into your culture is your GF? Will she willingly jump on the family fun bandwagon, or not? If she's not willing to do this, if she won't meet you half-way on the amount of family togetherness you would like, then it's a HUGE issue in your relationship and it needs to be resolved.
Frankly, the amount of mixing and mingling one does with one's family is a rather bedrock value. Work it out now, before your relationship goes any further.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:40 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think in a LTR you have to be willing to pick your partner over your family. Not right away but once the relationship reaches the life partner stage this is required. I think that you should consider if you are headed that way with your GF? It sounds like you care about her but not at the expense of your family which is totally OK (it doesn't sound like your family is causing any trouble or is mean to her etc). You may want to consider what your life will be like in a few years if she pushes you farther from your family. Will that be worth it to you?
When in comes to in laws most of us have some troubles but for the sake of our loved one EVERYONE works hard to get along as the cost of not getting along can be way too high. From what you said it sounds like your brother is trying. Maybe a conversation with her about how important a friend your brother is might help. Also know that its OK to spend time without getting everyone together. You can hang out with just Bro or just GF too and that is not unreasonable.
posted by saradarlin at 9:42 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
When in comes to in laws most of us have some troubles but for the sake of our loved one EVERYONE works hard to get along as the cost of not getting along can be way too high. From what you said it sounds like your brother is trying. Maybe a conversation with her about how important a friend your brother is might help. Also know that its OK to spend time without getting everyone together. You can hang out with just Bro or just GF too and that is not unreasonable.
posted by saradarlin at 9:42 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't know that this is an answer, but let me provide some experience...
My ex-wife and a close family member of mine never got along. It started small and eventually got worse and worse. I dealt with it by cajoling, wishing for better, ignoring it. UNsurprisingly that didn't work and the situation eventually became one of those persistent thorns that inexorably leads to Relationship Hell. (Obviously there was more than this, but I clearly remember having to deal with it.)
If this was to happen again in the future with a new flame, I would address the issue with both of them, separately. Discuss the situation, make sure that both of them understand how this makes you feel, and be very clear about how you need them to behave appropriately.
Do NOT wait for this to resolve on it's own.
posted by unixrat at 9:43 AM on May 16, 2013
My ex-wife and a close family member of mine never got along. It started small and eventually got worse and worse. I dealt with it by cajoling, wishing for better, ignoring it. UNsurprisingly that didn't work and the situation eventually became one of those persistent thorns that inexorably leads to Relationship Hell. (Obviously there was more than this, but I clearly remember having to deal with it.)
If this was to happen again in the future with a new flame, I would address the issue with both of them, separately. Discuss the situation, make sure that both of them understand how this makes you feel, and be very clear about how you need them to behave appropriately.
Do NOT wait for this to resolve on it's own.
posted by unixrat at 9:43 AM on May 16, 2013
My family is from a culture where families are close-knit, and spend a lot of time with each other; while my girlfriend isn't.
This is always going to be a problem for you, whether your girlfriend is "more faulty than your brother" or not. You are talking about a fundamental cultural difference.
How does your family closeness play out? Is your brother at your new place all the time? You live with your girlfriend, and to her, home might mean a sanctuary from the rest of the world, the place where she goes to be away from everyone else. If in-laws are there all the time, where is your intimate, private relationship developing? Where is she 'off duty' and able to choose what's on the radio/tv, choose to vacuum naked, etc.?
GF has an anxiety issue where she can become abrasive under stressful conditions, and this has caused conflict between my brother and her, and between her and me. She sometimes gets offended easily too. My brother has been very supportive of my relationship, and has forgiven things where we both thought she was being a little unreasonable. She's not a bad person at all however, she just has some faults. So do I of course, and so does my brother, but to a lesser extent.
This sounds very much like you agree with your brother more than your girlfriend, that you discuss your girlfriend with your brother and that if it came down to it, brother's opinion would win out. I bet your girlfriend senses this and it's become part of/exacerbated whatever differences were already there. You report your brother's opinion of your girlfriend but not her opinion of him, or of anything...have you talked about this with her? she's not represented here in any "I asked her about this and she says XYZ" kind of way.
This is something you definitely need to address and work on in your relationship. But if this relationship doesn't work out, then even if you blame it on your girlfriend's "abrasiveness," you should be on the lookout for similar conflicts in subsequent relationships with people from more private cultures as well.
posted by headnsouth at 9:54 AM on May 16, 2013 [14 favorites]
This is always going to be a problem for you, whether your girlfriend is "more faulty than your brother" or not. You are talking about a fundamental cultural difference.
How does your family closeness play out? Is your brother at your new place all the time? You live with your girlfriend, and to her, home might mean a sanctuary from the rest of the world, the place where she goes to be away from everyone else. If in-laws are there all the time, where is your intimate, private relationship developing? Where is she 'off duty' and able to choose what's on the radio/tv, choose to vacuum naked, etc.?
GF has an anxiety issue where she can become abrasive under stressful conditions, and this has caused conflict between my brother and her, and between her and me. She sometimes gets offended easily too. My brother has been very supportive of my relationship, and has forgiven things where we both thought she was being a little unreasonable. She's not a bad person at all however, she just has some faults. So do I of course, and so does my brother, but to a lesser extent.
This sounds very much like you agree with your brother more than your girlfriend, that you discuss your girlfriend with your brother and that if it came down to it, brother's opinion would win out. I bet your girlfriend senses this and it's become part of/exacerbated whatever differences were already there. You report your brother's opinion of your girlfriend but not her opinion of him, or of anything...have you talked about this with her? she's not represented here in any "I asked her about this and she says XYZ" kind of way.
This is something you definitely need to address and work on in your relationship. But if this relationship doesn't work out, then even if you blame it on your girlfriend's "abrasiveness," you should be on the lookout for similar conflicts in subsequent relationships with people from more private cultures as well.
posted by headnsouth at 9:54 AM on May 16, 2013 [14 favorites]
I guess I lived in a dreamworld where everyone got along, and loved spending time with each other, and stuff like that.
Yes, you are living in a dreamworld.
I was originally going to blame the dynamic for your gf's "abrasiveness", but headnsouth makes the great point that you are perhaps covering for your brother on the basis of the close-knit nature of your family and your propensity to give them the benefit of the doubt on any and all things.
On some level, your girlfriend is just fundamentally going to be unable to understand your family's dynamic and culture and the idea of coming from a close-knit family. On another level, you might be looking past bad behavior on your own family's side because you are fundamentally used to the idea of never believing your family to be in the wrong for the purpose of being close-knit.
posted by deanc at 9:59 AM on May 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yes, you are living in a dreamworld.
I was originally going to blame the dynamic for your gf's "abrasiveness", but headnsouth makes the great point that you are perhaps covering for your brother on the basis of the close-knit nature of your family and your propensity to give them the benefit of the doubt on any and all things.
On some level, your girlfriend is just fundamentally going to be unable to understand your family's dynamic and culture and the idea of coming from a close-knit family. On another level, you might be looking past bad behavior on your own family's side because you are fundamentally used to the idea of never believing your family to be in the wrong for the purpose of being close-knit.
posted by deanc at 9:59 AM on May 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Why is it your job to make sure everyone gets along? I don't particularly like my brother-in-law, so I keep my mouth shut about it, and he doesn't particularly like me, so he keeps his mouth shut about it, and we each keep on having a good relationship with my sister. Seems like it is up to your brother and your girlfriend to figure out their own relationship, and you should stay out of it and let them do so as they feel appropriate -- and be prepared to accept that they might not get along now or in the future (and if it becomes something hostile and toxic -- shouting or cold-shouldering at family gatherings, say -- then you can talk to each one separately if you think it'll help.)
posted by davejay at 10:07 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by davejay at 10:07 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
My sister is what can most kindly be called an acquired taste, and when my husband and I first started dating, he could not stand her. I understood his position, and so I spent a few years making excuses as to why he couldn't attend family functions. Finally, I had enough and I told him that either he made an attempt to get along at a superficial level with my family or I was out. I didn't need any of them to attain BFF status, but I did require everyone being able to sit in a room and have casual conversation. Years later, everyone gets along and I can leave them alone in the same house together and not expect to come back to a war zone.
For me it mattered who was objectively (as near as I could be) the problem. Is your brother picking fights with your girlfriend? Is her anxiety being treated? If her anxiety is a large source of friction in her relationships with others and it's not being adequately treated, I would pursue that avenue. If he's picking fights AND she's very sensitive you could talk to both of them separately. It may be that all you can hope for is civil behavior and not anything that could resemble friendship between them.
posted by crankylex at 10:40 AM on May 16, 2013
For me it mattered who was objectively (as near as I could be) the problem. Is your brother picking fights with your girlfriend? Is her anxiety being treated? If her anxiety is a large source of friction in her relationships with others and it's not being adequately treated, I would pursue that avenue. If he's picking fights AND she's very sensitive you could talk to both of them separately. It may be that all you can hope for is civil behavior and not anything that could resemble friendship between them.
posted by crankylex at 10:40 AM on May 16, 2013
The cultural differences might be very important here, but please remember cases you must know of even in your own cultural background where daughters in law or sisters in law struggle to get along with husband's family. It is not uncommon even when everyone shares the idea that extended family is an inevitable part of life.
That said, I would be very careful about two things:
1. It is easy to unconsciously, given one's natural loyalty to one's family of origin and especially so in cases when that family of origin is so important to adult life, to see through their eyes and decide the outsider -- the wife or gf -- is anxious or unstable when in fact they are expressing an opinion. I am NOT saying YOU are doing that, because you don't seem to be, but it is unfortunately an easy fallback when women express strong opinions.
2. HOWEVER, in one's extreme desire NOT to do that, and to make sure one is putting one's partner first, it is also too easy to defend or bury your sense of their bad behavior and drift from one's family. I think this is a risk for a lot of people: to think, " I have to be on spouse's side, so I'll just ignore my sense of reality when they act in ways that make me uncomfortable."
It is true that all things being equal one should have loyalty to one's partner over one's birth family, but if one's partner is being unreasonable, then it is also true that you side with them at risk to your own sense of being true to yourself. It can be crazy-making to always say, "well, I'm on my partners side so I guess X Y and Z is OK." Because before being loyal to anyone, you have to be on the side of your own truth and sense of reality.
posted by third rail at 11:21 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
That said, I would be very careful about two things:
1. It is easy to unconsciously, given one's natural loyalty to one's family of origin and especially so in cases when that family of origin is so important to adult life, to see through their eyes and decide the outsider -- the wife or gf -- is anxious or unstable when in fact they are expressing an opinion. I am NOT saying YOU are doing that, because you don't seem to be, but it is unfortunately an easy fallback when women express strong opinions.
2. HOWEVER, in one's extreme desire NOT to do that, and to make sure one is putting one's partner first, it is also too easy to defend or bury your sense of their bad behavior and drift from one's family. I think this is a risk for a lot of people: to think, " I have to be on spouse's side, so I'll just ignore my sense of reality when they act in ways that make me uncomfortable."
It is true that all things being equal one should have loyalty to one's partner over one's birth family, but if one's partner is being unreasonable, then it is also true that you side with them at risk to your own sense of being true to yourself. It can be crazy-making to always say, "well, I'm on my partners side so I guess X Y and Z is OK." Because before being loyal to anyone, you have to be on the side of your own truth and sense of reality.
posted by third rail at 11:21 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you're in kind of a major transition period right now. Moving in with a partner can be tough and take a lot of adjustment.
Have you talked to your girlfriend what it is about hanging out with your brother that is anxiety provoking for her? What has your brother done that offended to her? Did you discus how she feels about what happened that offended her?
The way your question is phrased, it sounds like you aren't too concerned that your brother is doing or saying things to your girlfriend that are offending or upsetting her, and that your brother is the better person of the two, not for apologizing, but for forgiving her for "acting unreasonable" when she is upset.
My guess is that from your girlfriend's perspective, your brother does things to upset or offend her. She knows you think she is great, but that you think your brother is even more great than she, and when he does something that hurts her feelings, you side with him and think she is being unreasonable and abrasive. It is probably pretty hurtful to her to have her feelings belittled that way.
As an aside, thank your girlfriend for spending time with your family and your brother. You know she doesn't always enjoy it, she is doing it because you've made it clear to her that it's important to you. Appreciate it.
posted by inertia at 11:50 AM on May 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Have you talked to your girlfriend what it is about hanging out with your brother that is anxiety provoking for her? What has your brother done that offended to her? Did you discus how she feels about what happened that offended her?
The way your question is phrased, it sounds like you aren't too concerned that your brother is doing or saying things to your girlfriend that are offending or upsetting her, and that your brother is the better person of the two, not for apologizing, but for forgiving her for "acting unreasonable" when she is upset.
My guess is that from your girlfriend's perspective, your brother does things to upset or offend her. She knows you think she is great, but that you think your brother is even more great than she, and when he does something that hurts her feelings, you side with him and think she is being unreasonable and abrasive. It is probably pretty hurtful to her to have her feelings belittled that way.
As an aside, thank your girlfriend for spending time with your family and your brother. You know she doesn't always enjoy it, she is doing it because you've made it clear to her that it's important to you. Appreciate it.
posted by inertia at 11:50 AM on May 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Okay so, you and your GF were together for half of your relationship, then your brother pops in. It seems from your statements that you are maybe spending more time, or putting more care into the relationship with your brother.
GF and I care a lot about each other, and see things moving towards marriage and family. Brother and I share a remarkable amount of empathy and have things in common; we're the same age and grew up together for 23 years.
^To me, that statement seems to show more care about your brother than your girlfriend. If this relationship is to be long term, then it should be the other way around. I LOVE my dad, I'm a totally daddy's girl, but if my dad said or did something that offended my husband, I would chose my husband. (He never has and probably never will.)
I think her grouchy behavior may be because she seems like a third wheel in your relationship. This is just my assumption as it's not clear how or when or how often you are hanging out, but it does seem clear that many of those times she is forced to tag along.
1) Talk to your girlfriend about why she is feeling that way.
-It could be that she feels less important or left out
-She could feel that you side with your brother
-She could just find him annoying
2) Can you spend less time with your brother?
-Close knit doesn't have to mean forcing your GF to see your brother
-Can you see your brother alone more often? (Brother's day?)
I agree that if this heads toward marriage, your wife has to be your number one. My dad was in an awful marriage with my biological mother for 26 years. She is crazy - literally. BUT whenever she was wrong - say arguing with her sisters, my dad still stood up for her, because that's what you do for a spouse. Then you talk to them privately and say "I stood up for you, because you are my spouse, but I believe your actions were wrong. etc"
If there is something that you or your brother is doing that is setting her off, then you can resolve it. Otherwise she needs to learn to be civil, but either way you have to put her feelings first and show her that she is your number 1, not your brother. Your brother will ALWAYS be family, and if you want to marry this woman, she will become your family and you need to treat her as such.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:11 PM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
GF and I care a lot about each other, and see things moving towards marriage and family. Brother and I share a remarkable amount of empathy and have things in common; we're the same age and grew up together for 23 years.
^To me, that statement seems to show more care about your brother than your girlfriend. If this relationship is to be long term, then it should be the other way around. I LOVE my dad, I'm a totally daddy's girl, but if my dad said or did something that offended my husband, I would chose my husband. (He never has and probably never will.)
I think her grouchy behavior may be because she seems like a third wheel in your relationship. This is just my assumption as it's not clear how or when or how often you are hanging out, but it does seem clear that many of those times she is forced to tag along.
1) Talk to your girlfriend about why she is feeling that way.
-It could be that she feels less important or left out
-She could feel that you side with your brother
-She could just find him annoying
2) Can you spend less time with your brother?
-Close knit doesn't have to mean forcing your GF to see your brother
-Can you see your brother alone more often? (Brother's day?)
I agree that if this heads toward marriage, your wife has to be your number one. My dad was in an awful marriage with my biological mother for 26 years. She is crazy - literally. BUT whenever she was wrong - say arguing with her sisters, my dad still stood up for her, because that's what you do for a spouse. Then you talk to them privately and say "I stood up for you, because you are my spouse, but I believe your actions were wrong. etc"
If there is something that you or your brother is doing that is setting her off, then you can resolve it. Otherwise she needs to learn to be civil, but either way you have to put her feelings first and show her that she is your number 1, not your brother. Your brother will ALWAYS be family, and if you want to marry this woman, she will become your family and you need to treat her as such.
posted by Crystalinne at 12:11 PM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
she just has some faults. So do I of course, and so does my brother, but to a lesser extent.
If my boyfriend described me as having 'more faults' than he and his brother, I'd be pissed off. If you and your brother are so great together, you can move in and grow old as one of those adorable pairs of siblings who don't need a romantic partner. If that's not what you want, find someone you can value more highly than your brother.
posted by jacalata at 12:34 PM on May 16, 2013 [16 favorites]
If my boyfriend described me as having 'more faults' than he and his brother, I'd be pissed off. If you and your brother are so great together, you can move in and grow old as one of those adorable pairs of siblings who don't need a romantic partner. If that's not what you want, find someone you can value more highly than your brother.
posted by jacalata at 12:34 PM on May 16, 2013 [16 favorites]
I do not get along with my brother's partner of 12 years at all, and I'm extremely close to this brother. So, brother and I try to make most of our "us" time happen when she's not there. His wife and I both try to be on our best behavior when we do all have to be together, although our mutual dislike for one another quickly fills every inch of available space. I bite my tongue as much as I can -- which is almost, but not quite, enough. She does the same. I rant to other people about my brother's wife, rather than ranting to my brother, because it's not fair to him. I assume she rants about me directly to him, but he's got a kind heart and I don't hear about it later.
There's no way to make people like each other, but if all parties are mature they can acknowledge the dislike and try to mitigate conflict as much as they can.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 1:00 PM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
There's no way to make people like each other, but if all parties are mature they can acknowledge the dislike and try to mitigate conflict as much as they can.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 1:00 PM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I also have a close relationship with my brother and come from a similar culture so I understand where you are coming from. It would be a dealbreaker for me if my partner were abrasive or rude to my family.
I think
(1) GF's anxiety problems need to be addressed; not solely for the sake of harmony but for her own good. It can't be fun feeling like that all the time.
(2) You should set up dedicated Brother Time and dedicated GF time, separately. You don't spell it out but I infer from your phrasing that since Brother moved to your city you've been spending a lot more time with him and GF together? Perhaps he comes and hangs out at your house a lot with the 2 of you? I think GF might not be enjoying this as much as you are. Maybe stop hanging out with the 2 of them together when you know that GF is getting anxious and Brother, too, is probably not enjoying it all that much. Obviously, I might be way-off here. But schedule alone time with each and perhaps scale back on the group hangouts if that is in fact what's happening here.
(3) You say: I don't know if my relationship with my GF is sustainable because I love my brother very much. If you decide that this is a deal-breaker, then accept that. You need to decide for yourself whether it is a requirement of your relationship that your GF like your Brother. You shouldn't feel overly bad or guilty about whatever you decide. You should accept what is important to you.
(4) Step back and try to be a little Zen about this. You can't dictate how people feel about other people, unfortunately.
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:10 PM on May 16, 2013
I think
(1) GF's anxiety problems need to be addressed; not solely for the sake of harmony but for her own good. It can't be fun feeling like that all the time.
(2) You should set up dedicated Brother Time and dedicated GF time, separately. You don't spell it out but I infer from your phrasing that since Brother moved to your city you've been spending a lot more time with him and GF together? Perhaps he comes and hangs out at your house a lot with the 2 of you? I think GF might not be enjoying this as much as you are. Maybe stop hanging out with the 2 of them together when you know that GF is getting anxious and Brother, too, is probably not enjoying it all that much. Obviously, I might be way-off here. But schedule alone time with each and perhaps scale back on the group hangouts if that is in fact what's happening here.
(3) You say: I don't know if my relationship with my GF is sustainable because I love my brother very much. If you decide that this is a deal-breaker, then accept that. You need to decide for yourself whether it is a requirement of your relationship that your GF like your Brother. You shouldn't feel overly bad or guilty about whatever you decide. You should accept what is important to you.
(4) Step back and try to be a little Zen about this. You can't dictate how people feel about other people, unfortunately.
posted by Ziggy500 at 2:10 PM on May 16, 2013
[This is a followup from the asker.]
I have I think erred on the side of putting my family first and forgiving them more. This is because I have an estranged brother whose lack of communication has severely hurt my family, and I've tried my utmost to make sure I stay well connected to them. My GF knows this, and I realize that this is an issue.posted by headnsouth at 2:15 PM on May 16, 2013
It's funny that someone mentioned having the house to herself and not having people over, because a couple times she did ask for that to happen, and I didn't realize how important it was, and my brother was home when she came home after work and school, and she was unhappy. I realized afterward how important it was.
She is very supportive of my spending time with my family, but I always try to get her involved too, and she does go out of her way to be involved. I guess I need to start accepting that I shouldn't expect her to spend as much time with my family as I spend with them.
She also feels left out sometimes when I'm around my twin, because we are so close, and communicate very little verbally, and know each other's body language etc.. She also thinks I am too protective of him over her, which I think may be possible.
Because he is single right now too, I feel the need to try to spend as much time with him. I try to get all 3 of us to do things together, and before things got bad we would try to, but now I don't see it happening anymore and it's made me sad. She doesn't mind me spending time with him at all, I guess it's just now going to happen the 3 of us hanging out, until some time has passed and I adjust my expectations of everyone and become more objective?
Your girlfriend wants a home with you, not you and your brother. She wants an intimate relationship with you, not you and your brother. If you want to build a life with her, you have to build it with her, not build it as a group project with your brother. As twins, you're close. But, you seem to have developed a major codependency with him and it's going to damage your chances to have a strong marriage and family of your own. If all you want is an endless bachelor life with your twin, you are on-track to getting that if you continue with this approach.
Your brother is new to the city and is single. It sounds like he depends on you and your family as the major part of his social life. If he chooses to not develop his social life otherwise and depends on you for that, your days with your girlfriend are numbered. He should find his own group of friends and his own partner. You filling up every free moment of his time is stunting his development as an independent man. It makes things easier for him, but in the long run he won't develop his own networks of friends. Your brother needs his own life.
If I came home to my own home after work/school/whatever and repeatedly found my partner's sibling there when all I wanted is some peace and quiet in my own home with my partner, I'd be super stressed, anxious, and mad that my partner isn't helping to create that with me. I'm betting that a large amount of your girlfriend's anxiety and abrasive responses are directly related to you prioritizing your brother over her repeatedly. Your girlfriend doesn't have to go to every family event with you, but you have to make an effort to create time and space where it's just your girlfriend and you. Being in physical proximity to one another isn't enough. You have to dedicate time to building a stable foundation of emotional intimacy and trust with your girlfriend and that's not possible if your brother is always hovering around and interfering with your couple dynamic.
posted by quince at 3:09 PM on May 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
Your brother is new to the city and is single. It sounds like he depends on you and your family as the major part of his social life. If he chooses to not develop his social life otherwise and depends on you for that, your days with your girlfriend are numbered. He should find his own group of friends and his own partner. You filling up every free moment of his time is stunting his development as an independent man. It makes things easier for him, but in the long run he won't develop his own networks of friends. Your brother needs his own life.
If I came home to my own home after work/school/whatever and repeatedly found my partner's sibling there when all I wanted is some peace and quiet in my own home with my partner, I'd be super stressed, anxious, and mad that my partner isn't helping to create that with me. I'm betting that a large amount of your girlfriend's anxiety and abrasive responses are directly related to you prioritizing your brother over her repeatedly. Your girlfriend doesn't have to go to every family event with you, but you have to make an effort to create time and space where it's just your girlfriend and you. Being in physical proximity to one another isn't enough. You have to dedicate time to building a stable foundation of emotional intimacy and trust with your girlfriend and that's not possible if your brother is always hovering around and interfering with your couple dynamic.
posted by quince at 3:09 PM on May 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
I like people, but if there was someone in my house every afternoon when I got home, I'd be pretty abrasive with them too. Hell, I get abrasive with my partner if I don't get alone time every few days. One of the things you need to do after moving in together is talk about expectations / needs for privacy, alone time, togetherness, time with others... And you'll probably have to keep talking about it as your relationships evolve.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect your GF to always have to hang out with you and your brother. Nor do I think it's reasonable to expect your brother to always hang out with your GF to see you. You each need to have private time together... But none of these are my relationship, so you kinda have to talk to her about what she wants.
I think the fact that your brother is a formally estranged twin is a key detail... It suggests you have a greater intimacy than most siblings and more interest in making up for lost time. Plus, your relationship with your GF formed without your brother around and now it has to adjust.
Maybe if your brother needs to hang at your place, you could make it explicit that your GF doesn't have to deal with him? Like she can come home and be completely antisocial if she wants? Say hello and hide in another room, walk into the kitchen without offering to get anyone a snack... That level of withdrawal from social interaction would help me recharge sometimes (but not always).
You can still do things together as 3 sometimes, just don't expect it all the time.
Anyways, talk to your GF, anxiety disorder or no, she probably doesn't like the current situation anymore than you do.
posted by Heart_on_Sleeve at 6:30 PM on May 16, 2013
I don't think it's reasonable to expect your GF to always have to hang out with you and your brother. Nor do I think it's reasonable to expect your brother to always hang out with your GF to see you. You each need to have private time together... But none of these are my relationship, so you kinda have to talk to her about what she wants.
I think the fact that your brother is a formally estranged twin is a key detail... It suggests you have a greater intimacy than most siblings and more interest in making up for lost time. Plus, your relationship with your GF formed without your brother around and now it has to adjust.
Maybe if your brother needs to hang at your place, you could make it explicit that your GF doesn't have to deal with him? Like she can come home and be completely antisocial if she wants? Say hello and hide in another room, walk into the kitchen without offering to get anyone a snack... That level of withdrawal from social interaction would help me recharge sometimes (but not always).
You can still do things together as 3 sometimes, just don't expect it all the time.
Anyways, talk to your GF, anxiety disorder or no, she probably doesn't like the current situation anymore than you do.
posted by Heart_on_Sleeve at 6:30 PM on May 16, 2013
It's taken close to ten years for me to genuinely want to hang out with my brother-in-law. We had some rocky times (read: more screaming arguments with him than I've had with my partner) but we both love the other anachronism deeply so we do our best. We acknowledge our issues - if I'm in a bad mood he picks up on it and goes into a mood of his own and then bam, screaming. But we also acknowledge that we do know each other very well now, and we're friends and can trust each other. Part of that has been having a relationship with each other than isn't mediated by my partner, while also having my partner very consciously put me first.
But yeah, I'm always allowed to go and hide in my room, I'm always allowed to say "yeah, no, no socialising tonight please can you stay home?" because I can also always say "go hang with your brother, take the kid". And they rarely launch things like that on me (or his partner) because they know that their special bond does make it hard on us because it is excruciatingly obvious, no matter how hard they try, that their primary connection is with each other. Upbringing, soulmates, whatever you want to call it, that's who they turn to in times of stress. So they have to balance that with actively making life easier on us, their partners, by telegraphing hanging out, forming unmediated bonds, helping and adjusting.
Mostly it's been time though - we worked our shit out, matured and now live a 15 minute walk away from each other and hang out multiple times a week. I mean, me and her get annoyed when their response to both of them having the weekend off is "yay time with my brother" as opposed to, y'know, US AND THE KIDS but it is something we've learned to deal with. Sometimes by saying "seriously? That's your response?".
posted by geek anachronism at 7:21 PM on May 16, 2013
But yeah, I'm always allowed to go and hide in my room, I'm always allowed to say "yeah, no, no socialising tonight please can you stay home?" because I can also always say "go hang with your brother, take the kid". And they rarely launch things like that on me (or his partner) because they know that their special bond does make it hard on us because it is excruciatingly obvious, no matter how hard they try, that their primary connection is with each other. Upbringing, soulmates, whatever you want to call it, that's who they turn to in times of stress. So they have to balance that with actively making life easier on us, their partners, by telegraphing hanging out, forming unmediated bonds, helping and adjusting.
Mostly it's been time though - we worked our shit out, matured and now live a 15 minute walk away from each other and hang out multiple times a week. I mean, me and her get annoyed when their response to both of them having the weekend off is "yay time with my brother" as opposed to, y'know, US AND THE KIDS but it is something we've learned to deal with. Sometimes by saying "seriously? That's your response?".
posted by geek anachronism at 7:21 PM on May 16, 2013
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Is she working on this in any way? I ask, because if you're planning a life and a family together, this is going to trip her up in many, many ways, and it will get old. Having a partner who lashes out when things get rocky is really no fun, and while your first loyalty is to her, being the defender of someone whose fight or flight reflex is touchy gets tiresome.
Personally, I want my partner to be on my side, but I also want him to tell me when I'm messing up (in private, not in front of the family!) Objective doesn't make me feel valued. Are you reassuring her that she's your first priority? Does she have a reason for her hair-trigger offensive response (abuse, trauma, etc.?) and does she see it as a problem?
posted by Ideefixe at 9:32 AM on May 16, 2013 [8 favorites]