I don't want to exclude this friend, but I don't want him to come either
May 9, 2013 5:41 PM Subscribe
I am celebrating my grad-school graduation, and I have a friend who has been very good to me. But he also lacks boundaries, can be pushy, gets very drunk quickly, and causes me and others a lot of stress sometimes. He clearly expects to celebrate my graduation with me. What do I do?
I have a friend, Maurice. Maurice is about 15 years older than me, he's male, I'm female. We know each other through a mutual hobby.
Maurice is a really good person. He is extremely caring and always tries to help. When my car broke down and I was stranded a long way from home with no money and no way to get back, Maurice happened to call me about another topic. He heard how distraught I was and immediately came and saved me, and lent me the money to repair my car. That's how wonderful of a person he is.
Maurice also has a hard time with social skills, sometimes. He is so caring that he is always observing and monitoring people for signs that they are okay. He also will come up with many solutions to the problems he thinks you have, and tell you about them. Over and over. One of my friends is a female who does not like leaving the house without full makeup. Sometimes she will take a while to get ready because she is doing her makeup. Maurice has been known to comment about it repeatedly, and decided my friend must have a low body image or be too anxious. He has offered her many solutions to help with her "anxiety" and repeatedly lectured her on how she should follow his solutions. This friend is also close to my age.
Maurice is a follower of a certain philosopher, and he will lecture you about this philosopher and how the philosophy can solve the problems that Maurice thinks you have. Maurice gives people multiple half-hour long lectures about this philosopher and he repeats himself over and over. I completely believe that he only wants to help people and he believes he will make their lives better by teaching them about this. But.
If you bring up objections to Maurice about his behavior, and tell him the things he says bother you, he will say that if you studied this philosopher you would not be bothered anymore. In fact the fact that you are bothered at all means you need to study this philosopher.
He also will make morbid comments about death, especially in happy moments. Like we should all enjoy this moment and live in it because we're all going to die at the end of our lives.
Lately Maurice has been asking me what I am doing to celebrate my graduation. He said if I did not plan anything then he will and surprise me. I told him seriously not to do that.
I hate the idea of excluding Maurice, he really is a wonderful man and he has been an amazing friend. But he has really upset at least one of my friends who will be there. I also have been under a lot of stress these days and I very much do not want to hear morbid comments about death. I don't even want to hear it once, it would ruin my mood completely. I also do not want to hear about his philosopher at all. Even without those specific things I'm just worried about how it will go. I am under a lot of stress anyway and I really don't want the extra stress.
The party will be very small, around 10 people or less. Maurice knows everyone who would come and would hear about it if I didn't invite him.
Help.
I have a friend, Maurice. Maurice is about 15 years older than me, he's male, I'm female. We know each other through a mutual hobby.
Maurice is a really good person. He is extremely caring and always tries to help. When my car broke down and I was stranded a long way from home with no money and no way to get back, Maurice happened to call me about another topic. He heard how distraught I was and immediately came and saved me, and lent me the money to repair my car. That's how wonderful of a person he is.
Maurice also has a hard time with social skills, sometimes. He is so caring that he is always observing and monitoring people for signs that they are okay. He also will come up with many solutions to the problems he thinks you have, and tell you about them. Over and over. One of my friends is a female who does not like leaving the house without full makeup. Sometimes she will take a while to get ready because she is doing her makeup. Maurice has been known to comment about it repeatedly, and decided my friend must have a low body image or be too anxious. He has offered her many solutions to help with her "anxiety" and repeatedly lectured her on how she should follow his solutions. This friend is also close to my age.
Maurice is a follower of a certain philosopher, and he will lecture you about this philosopher and how the philosophy can solve the problems that Maurice thinks you have. Maurice gives people multiple half-hour long lectures about this philosopher and he repeats himself over and over. I completely believe that he only wants to help people and he believes he will make their lives better by teaching them about this. But.
If you bring up objections to Maurice about his behavior, and tell him the things he says bother you, he will say that if you studied this philosopher you would not be bothered anymore. In fact the fact that you are bothered at all means you need to study this philosopher.
He also will make morbid comments about death, especially in happy moments. Like we should all enjoy this moment and live in it because we're all going to die at the end of our lives.
Lately Maurice has been asking me what I am doing to celebrate my graduation. He said if I did not plan anything then he will and surprise me. I told him seriously not to do that.
I hate the idea of excluding Maurice, he really is a wonderful man and he has been an amazing friend. But he has really upset at least one of my friends who will be there. I also have been under a lot of stress these days and I very much do not want to hear morbid comments about death. I don't even want to hear it once, it would ruin my mood completely. I also do not want to hear about his philosopher at all. Even without those specific things I'm just worried about how it will go. I am under a lot of stress anyway and I really don't want the extra stress.
The party will be very small, around 10 people or less. Maurice knows everyone who would come and would hear about it if I didn't invite him.
Help.
Make plans to celebrate with Maurice privately- a dinner for two or a trip to the movies. Do not fall prey to geek social fallacies.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:45 PM on May 9, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:45 PM on May 9, 2013 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: The only thing that makes me nervous about a one-on-one with Maurice is that I am not sure if he is interested in me and I don't want him to think it is a date or we are on route to dating.
posted by galenka at 5:47 PM on May 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by galenka at 5:47 PM on May 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I love the title of your post. It sums it up pretty well. You hate the idea of excluding him, but you hate the idea of him coming too. Which one do you hate more?
This is your party. It's not about him. And you don't need to subject yourself and your friend circle to his weird pushy behavior for the rest of your life just because he has been nice to you sometimes.
posted by PercussivePaul at 5:48 PM on May 9, 2013
This is your party. It's not about him. And you don't need to subject yourself and your friend circle to his weird pushy behavior for the rest of your life just because he has been nice to you sometimes.
posted by PercussivePaul at 5:48 PM on May 9, 2013
You are a female and Maurice is a man who is 15 years older than you. Are you maybe being a little naive about his intentions? If I were you, I would set very clear boundaries with this person and that would include not accepting favors from him or allowing him over to my home. Exclude, exclude, exclude. It won't be the first time this has happened to him, otherwise, he would have friends his own age. He is an adult, he will get over it.
posted by myselfasme at 5:49 PM on May 9, 2013 [24 favorites]
posted by myselfasme at 5:49 PM on May 9, 2013 [24 favorites]
Hmm, is there any friend who you could invite along with Maurice, to make it non-dateish? Someone who already knows Maurice's deal and can handle him? Or somebody you could warn ahead of time who would be kind but firm?
posted by mskyle at 5:55 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by mskyle at 5:55 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you are worried about the dating angle, invite Maurice along with another (preferably) male friend who can tolerate him to a side-celebration. It will help defuse any issues. I suspect you will get a lot of "fuck Maurice" answers here. Not saying they're wrong at all, but as someone who has had this particular species of caring, but profoundly irritating friend before, and the type of friend where it was hard to know if they were attempting to be romantic or not - because their social barometers were so wack - I can empathise with your frustrations here.
posted by smoke at 5:55 PM on May 9, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by smoke at 5:55 PM on May 9, 2013 [5 favorites]
This guy sounds like a classic friendzone suspect. I would seriously bet he wants more from this relationship than you do. Having a one on one hangout with him is probably a seriously bad idea if you don't want it to go that way.
I get what smoke and such are saying, and I may be a bit overly cynical, but I don't see any good coming from this at all.
If I had to do something with him(or just really wanted to) I'd have some side event with him and other people(preferably who couldn't make it to the first one). Plausible deniabili-buddies if you will.
Honestly though, if you're having to plan this much around someone, I'd be questioning whether the friendship with them was something I was putting more into than I was getting back.
posted by emptythought at 6:02 PM on May 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
I get what smoke and such are saying, and I may be a bit overly cynical, but I don't see any good coming from this at all.
If I had to do something with him(or just really wanted to) I'd have some side event with him and other people(preferably who couldn't make it to the first one). Plausible deniabili-buddies if you will.
Honestly though, if you're having to plan this much around someone, I'd be questioning whether the friendship with them was something I was putting more into than I was getting back.
posted by emptythought at 6:02 PM on May 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
If everyone in the party knows Maurice then surely they are already prepared to deal with him. And regarding your concerns, just say that you want him to celebrate wih you but you've been under a lot of stress lately and if he can't dial back his morbid and argumentative ways at your party then you'll be asking him to leave.
posted by greta simone at 6:23 PM on May 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by greta simone at 6:23 PM on May 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
Yeah, give it to him straight up front in advance.
He's someone who needs to help people - this is how he can help you out. Frame it that way.
posted by heyjude at 6:28 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
He's someone who needs to help people - this is how he can help you out. Frame it that way.
posted by heyjude at 6:28 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't know that I have been to a party where there wasn't someone like this. If he's so nice, well, unless you don't want to be his friend anymore, invite him. I ask this next question in all sincerity: is there a "she geek" that someone knows? If so, invite her too. Maybe they will hit it off.
posted by brownrd at 6:34 PM on May 9, 2013
posted by brownrd at 6:34 PM on May 9, 2013
Frankly, he sounds like a Nietzsche creeper, and I would just not invite him to my party. Think about this: does he have any power over your grades or career? If not, then tough. Why should some guy who follows Nietzsche decide how you celebrate something you've been working a long time for? Seriously. What. The. Heck.
If he hears about it later, tell him you didn't think he'd enjoy the bourgeois company.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 6:50 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
If he hears about it later, tell him you didn't think he'd enjoy the bourgeois company.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 6:50 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Secret after party?
Maurice goes with group to lunch, the rest of you continue to the main event after, without telling him?
It would be hard to orchestrate and tough to keep an actual secret. But....definitely do not do anything alone with him to celebrate. Trust your gut.
posted by bilabial at 6:54 PM on May 9, 2013
Maurice goes with group to lunch, the rest of you continue to the main event after, without telling him?
It would be hard to orchestrate and tough to keep an actual secret. But....definitely do not do anything alone with him to celebrate. Trust your gut.
posted by bilabial at 6:54 PM on May 9, 2013
I know someone like this and I swear to god he ruins all the parties. The ways I have dealt with it, with varying degrees of success, are:
-keep him inundated with "tasks" so he can fulfill his need to help via something productive, as heyjude says. So I will often serve a ridiculously complicated cocktail, and appoint him as the bartender. No one complains much, least of all him, because he is kept busy and is helping. It feels kind of mean but what are you going to do. Other options include running the playlists, offering to refill people's glasses, making runs to the corner store for ice, etc.
-appoint another friend or five to take turns engaging him. Sometimes bribes work well for this. So does making a drinking game out of awful things he says.
-purposefully invite another semi-awful person because my Maurice is seriously unable to stop himself from 'helping' the other semi-awful person have a good time by talking his or her ear off. Obviously collateral damage here.
-just invite a shitload more people. I think in intimate gatherings boors often unbalance the party dynamics more easily; could you just invite many more people? Like thirty more? I'm often not as annoyed by people like this at bigger parties because I can just excuse myself and go talk to a different group of people, or step out to the balcony, etc.
One last thought. It's your graduation, honey. You don't have to invite anyone to your parties that you don't want to be there. What would be the worst thing that happened if you didn't invite him, he found out, and was mad at you? If he mistakenly thinks there is dating potential, it sounds like a bit of distance wouldn't be a bad thing.
posted by stellaluna at 6:57 PM on May 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
-keep him inundated with "tasks" so he can fulfill his need to help via something productive, as heyjude says. So I will often serve a ridiculously complicated cocktail, and appoint him as the bartender. No one complains much, least of all him, because he is kept busy and is helping. It feels kind of mean but what are you going to do. Other options include running the playlists, offering to refill people's glasses, making runs to the corner store for ice, etc.
-appoint another friend or five to take turns engaging him. Sometimes bribes work well for this. So does making a drinking game out of awful things he says.
-purposefully invite another semi-awful person because my Maurice is seriously unable to stop himself from 'helping' the other semi-awful person have a good time by talking his or her ear off. Obviously collateral damage here.
-just invite a shitload more people. I think in intimate gatherings boors often unbalance the party dynamics more easily; could you just invite many more people? Like thirty more? I'm often not as annoyed by people like this at bigger parties because I can just excuse myself and go talk to a different group of people, or step out to the balcony, etc.
One last thought. It's your graduation, honey. You don't have to invite anyone to your parties that you don't want to be there. What would be the worst thing that happened if you didn't invite him, he found out, and was mad at you? If he mistakenly thinks there is dating potential, it sounds like a bit of distance wouldn't be a bad thing.
posted by stellaluna at 6:57 PM on May 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
Congrats on graduating! That's awesome.
You're friends with the guy and he knows everyone coming to the party. They know him and know how to handle him. While it's your party and you don't have to invite anyone, you will hurt his feelings if you exclude him. You probably also want to be clear with him that this is a friendship that will not bloom into a romance.
It's worth considering that the guy was good enough for driving to get you and for lending you money, but not good enough to celebrate a big milestone with you.
posted by 26.2 at 7:03 PM on May 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
You're friends with the guy and he knows everyone coming to the party. They know him and know how to handle him. While it's your party and you don't have to invite anyone, you will hurt his feelings if you exclude him. You probably also want to be clear with him that this is a friendship that will not bloom into a romance.
It's worth considering that the guy was good enough for driving to get you and for lending you money, but not good enough to celebrate a big milestone with you.
posted by 26.2 at 7:03 PM on May 9, 2013 [6 favorites]
I know a Maurice. So nice, so sweet, so caring, so wonderful, so interesting. Turns out he was also so totally trying to have sex with me (and married). Before you start agonizing over your decision make sure he's not a creep in disguise.
posted by Anonymous at 7:10 PM on May 9, 2013
posted by Anonymous at 7:10 PM on May 9, 2013
He's been a friend all along, you have allowed the friendship to continue all along - well before graduation came along.
All his negative qualities were known to you before graduation time. Now, you want him out of your party.
You can do whatever you want, Maurice may have ill intentions, but with this path of yours, you are not being a friend to Maurice. You should have made a decision on your "friendship" much earlier on. Now, I suggest you dig deep, summon the courage, and either end your relationship with Maurice before the party, or suck it up and invite your friend.
posted by Kruger5 at 7:20 PM on May 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
All his negative qualities were known to you before graduation time. Now, you want him out of your party.
You can do whatever you want, Maurice may have ill intentions, but with this path of yours, you are not being a friend to Maurice. You should have made a decision on your "friendship" much earlier on. Now, I suggest you dig deep, summon the courage, and either end your relationship with Maurice before the party, or suck it up and invite your friend.
posted by Kruger5 at 7:20 PM on May 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
Maurice sounds like the type of person who is just nice enough to guilt you into hanging out with him, since 99% of the time he acts like a total jerk. That he ignores and contradicts you when you tell he is behaving unpleasantly is more than enough to flat out not invite him Friendship shouldn't be this stressful.
posted by florencetnoa at 7:21 PM on May 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by florencetnoa at 7:21 PM on May 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Maybe he is "on the spectrum" and the constantly scanning for problems to solve is his way of trying to appear normal?
But I've known some people like this, and they weren't so much caring as they were ego maniacs and control freaks. Their caring-seeming actions have only one motivation: to prove to everyone how awesome they are.
Good, caring people don't get pushy, drunk and boundary-crossing at parties. Alcohol doesn't change people, it just turns off their self control.
Consider this: why are you afraid to exclude this person? What's the downside? Good friends understand when they aren't wanted at a social event and while they might be disappointed, they wouldn't pout about it and make you feel bad and maybe even punish you somehow for excluding them. If you think Maurice would act this way, perhaps your assessment of him is not completely accurate.
posted by gjc at 7:23 PM on May 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
But I've known some people like this, and they weren't so much caring as they were ego maniacs and control freaks. Their caring-seeming actions have only one motivation: to prove to everyone how awesome they are.
Good, caring people don't get pushy, drunk and boundary-crossing at parties. Alcohol doesn't change people, it just turns off their self control.
Consider this: why are you afraid to exclude this person? What's the downside? Good friends understand when they aren't wanted at a social event and while they might be disappointed, they wouldn't pout about it and make you feel bad and maybe even punish you somehow for excluding them. If you think Maurice would act this way, perhaps your assessment of him is not completely accurate.
posted by gjc at 7:23 PM on May 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
- Do you still owe him money for the car repair?
- How long ago did he do you this favor?
My take on it is that Maurice is an adult, he can take care of himself, and if you don't invite him to your party... I mean, who cares?
No. Really.
If you still owe him money or the favor was just a week or two ago, then suffer his company and invite him. That's just manners.
If you've paid him back and the favor was over a month ago or more, then the past is the past, you owe him NOTHING today. That's right! N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
Nthing that he probably wants to get in your pants, so be careful not to feel beholden to him. And speaking of his philosophy...
Let his stupid philosophy keep him company! I fucking hate hate hate people like this, people that shove their ideologies down your throat.
Look. If his philosophy was so wonderful, he wouldn't proselytize all the damn time. He should be content to live his way, and let you and others live however. Good people do nice things because it is right, not for a reward or future consideration. Again, good people do nice things because it is right, not for a reward or future consideration.
Basically, he's full of shit. Don't fall for it, don't think you now have to cater to him or owe him anything. That's emotional blackmail, and you should not pay!
posted by jbenben at 7:28 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
- How long ago did he do you this favor?
My take on it is that Maurice is an adult, he can take care of himself, and if you don't invite him to your party... I mean, who cares?
No. Really.
If you still owe him money or the favor was just a week or two ago, then suffer his company and invite him. That's just manners.
If you've paid him back and the favor was over a month ago or more, then the past is the past, you owe him NOTHING today. That's right! N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
Nthing that he probably wants to get in your pants, so be careful not to feel beholden to him. And speaking of his philosophy...
Let his stupid philosophy keep him company! I fucking hate hate hate people like this, people that shove their ideologies down your throat.
Look. If his philosophy was so wonderful, he wouldn't proselytize all the damn time. He should be content to live his way, and let you and others live however. Good people do nice things because it is right, not for a reward or future consideration. Again, good people do nice things because it is right, not for a reward or future consideration.
Basically, he's full of shit. Don't fall for it, don't think you now have to cater to him or owe him anything. That's emotional blackmail, and you should not pay!
posted by jbenben at 7:28 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I think the odds of him being a "Nice Guy" who secretly wants in your pants are EXTREMELY DAMN HIGH. And if you have it out with him about how you don't ever plan on caving in and fucking him, ah....well, maybe he'll take off and solve this problem for you?
I mean, it sounds like even you don't super like him as a friend much, he's just so Nice Guy to you that, um....well, you know....you'd feel bad.....
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:06 PM on May 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
I mean, it sounds like even you don't super like him as a friend much, he's just so Nice Guy to you that, um....well, you know....you'd feel bad.....
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:06 PM on May 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
It sounds to me like you like him as a friend -- you describe him as a wonderful man, extremely caring, really good person, and amazing friend. So I can understand why you don't want to exclude him. Does the party HAVE to be small? Does it have to be the sort of party where people hang around talking to each other, as opposed to doing some activity where Maurice's social deficits wouldn't be as obvious? Could you enlist another friend to be on Maurice Duty for the night and rein him in?
posted by selfmedicating at 8:35 PM on May 9, 2013
posted by selfmedicating at 8:35 PM on May 9, 2013
You could call this a little dinner party, for organizational purposes, rather than a graduation party. (Congrats, btw!) Because not everyone is invited to every dinner party in a large group of friends, right? Any chance there could maybe be quite a large party on another day, where he wouldn't be so much the focus?
(It is Nietzsche, isn't it? Has to be.)
posted by nelljie at 9:25 PM on May 9, 2013
(It is Nietzsche, isn't it? Has to be.)
posted by nelljie at 9:25 PM on May 9, 2013
What do the other people who will be there think of Maurice? There's one friend who he is rude to about her makeup, there's another friend who he has 'really upset', everyone else he is rude to about his philosophy and his morbidity.
Isn't it likely that most or all of the other people don't want him to come also? What about their happiness and good time? Don't invite him, not (just) for you, but for all of your friends.
Also he is probably trying to have sex with you and isn't really your friend. Probably. Just keep an eye out for that.
posted by Kwine at 9:47 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Isn't it likely that most or all of the other people don't want him to come also? What about their happiness and good time? Don't invite him, not (just) for you, but for all of your friends.
Also he is probably trying to have sex with you and isn't really your friend. Probably. Just keep an eye out for that.
posted by Kwine at 9:47 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Do something non-datish with Maurice alone. For example a graduation lunch celebration or graduation high tea.
Or invite Maurice to group activity to celebrate so its so big - that he can feel included but you can circulate ( something not organized by you... but your school or an acquaintance... where is impact wont' be felt)
posted by zia at 10:22 PM on May 9, 2013
Or invite Maurice to group activity to celebrate so its so big - that he can feel included but you can circulate ( something not organized by you... but your school or an acquaintance... where is impact wont' be felt)
posted by zia at 10:22 PM on May 9, 2013
How about this: next time he asks about graduation, tell him that it's going to be a girls' thing.
If/when he hears that it was coed, you can tell him that yes, plans changed at the last minute, but you were also asked to keep it small because he's been creeping people out with the death stuff and the intrusive personal commentary, and you didn't want to hurt his feelings but maybe it's best that he knows that stuff bothers people to that point.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:57 PM on May 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
If/when he hears that it was coed, you can tell him that yes, plans changed at the last minute, but you were also asked to keep it small because he's been creeping people out with the death stuff and the intrusive personal commentary, and you didn't want to hurt his feelings but maybe it's best that he knows that stuff bothers people to that point.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:57 PM on May 9, 2013 [4 favorites]
Why not explain to this person why you're not inviting him so he can work on those issues and learn to improve them, instead of giving him the brush-off without any notice?
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 11:22 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 11:22 PM on May 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Is this likely to be the only time that you ever graduate grad school? (That is, are you getting a terminal degree and not likely to be doing this again?) If so, just try to think about how you will feel 20 years from now when your main memory of your graduation party is Maurice and his awful behavior. If you will look back humorously or fondly on such a thing, then include him. You may also want to think about whether not including him will ruin your own enjoyment of the party because you'll be worrying about whether he is going to find out or not and how he'll react. If this is likely to happen, you're probably better off including him.
Otherwise, don't worry about his feelings about this and leave him out. And on preview, just do what Charlemagne In Sweatpants is telling you to do -- be honest with him and leave it at that. From what you've told us, he's not going to be a lasting friend anyway, so you might as well burn this bridge now and get it over with before you set yourself up for regrets and trouble in trying to be perhaps ill-advisedly kind and polite.
posted by gubenuj at 11:30 PM on May 9, 2013
Otherwise, don't worry about his feelings about this and leave him out. And on preview, just do what Charlemagne In Sweatpants is telling you to do -- be honest with him and leave it at that. From what you've told us, he's not going to be a lasting friend anyway, so you might as well burn this bridge now and get it over with before you set yourself up for regrets and trouble in trying to be perhaps ill-advisedly kind and polite.
posted by gubenuj at 11:30 PM on May 9, 2013
Yes, just be honest with him, but not mean. Tell him that you're having a small get together, and you feel bad excluding him but he tends to hurt peoples' feelings because of x reason, but you'd be happy to celebrate with him and x mutual friend at another time. And obviously don't tell him when or where your thing is happening.
posted by windykites at 4:26 AM on May 10, 2013
posted by windykites at 4:26 AM on May 10, 2013
This guy sounds peculiarly like a certain friend of mine, let's call him Steve. Steve always wanted to hang out with me. Always. If I mentioned an event I was thinking about attending in his presence he would immediately jump on it and invite himself along. He would message me at work and listen to me complain about my boring job and the stresses I was enduring. Which was nice, you know. Most of my friends didn't have the patience to indulge in such trivialities. He was also extremely generous, to the point that it almost made me uncomfortable. Steve bought all of his friends drinks at the bar and always gave the most lavish birthday and Christmas presents. On paper, he was a great friend.
But he couldn't take a hint. The idea of, say, Sarah and Jane, who are best friends, wanting to spend an afternoon together without Steve was absolutely intolerable to him. He took exclusion from any activity as a personal attack. Conversely, he got upset when I invited my girlfriend along to some movie that I had planned to attend with Steve, instead of using it as an opportunity to get to know my girlfriend, like any normal human would. And you know how sometimes you try to plan a night out and it falls through, so you have to cancel? Steve didn't take that well. He was inflexible and insecure in his friendships. His social skills were so maladaptive that I always had the vaguest sense that I was hurting him, somehow, but I couldn't figure out why.
One day, Steve blew up. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it seemed minor at the time. I didn't hear from him for two weeks, and then I got a book-long email detailing all the ways in which I had failed as a friend, none of which he had ever mentioned before. I felt terrible. Surely, I had done something awful to trigger such a reaction. But months and years later, I came to accept that I had done nothing wrong. The problem was not on my end; it was Steve's problem.
If I had to do it all over again, I would be less "kind" to Steve. I would be less inclusive and liberal about what I accept as "normal" social behavior. People who don't understand how an adult relationship functions, who are inflexible in their expectations, who cannot forgive or forget, and who expect you to be their Perfect Friend are not good friends.
Maurice sounds a bit like Steve, except for the age difference. He has probably alienated a lot of friends over the years due to this sort of behavior. Certainly, I feel sorry for anyone who lacks the social skills to make connections and keep people in their life, but the danger here is that you may overly indulge him to accommodate his problem and set yourself up for hurt later.
posted by deathpanels at 5:49 AM on May 10, 2013 [9 favorites]
But he couldn't take a hint. The idea of, say, Sarah and Jane, who are best friends, wanting to spend an afternoon together without Steve was absolutely intolerable to him. He took exclusion from any activity as a personal attack. Conversely, he got upset when I invited my girlfriend along to some movie that I had planned to attend with Steve, instead of using it as an opportunity to get to know my girlfriend, like any normal human would. And you know how sometimes you try to plan a night out and it falls through, so you have to cancel? Steve didn't take that well. He was inflexible and insecure in his friendships. His social skills were so maladaptive that I always had the vaguest sense that I was hurting him, somehow, but I couldn't figure out why.
One day, Steve blew up. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it seemed minor at the time. I didn't hear from him for two weeks, and then I got a book-long email detailing all the ways in which I had failed as a friend, none of which he had ever mentioned before. I felt terrible. Surely, I had done something awful to trigger such a reaction. But months and years later, I came to accept that I had done nothing wrong. The problem was not on my end; it was Steve's problem.
If I had to do it all over again, I would be less "kind" to Steve. I would be less inclusive and liberal about what I accept as "normal" social behavior. People who don't understand how an adult relationship functions, who are inflexible in their expectations, who cannot forgive or forget, and who expect you to be their Perfect Friend are not good friends.
Maurice sounds a bit like Steve, except for the age difference. He has probably alienated a lot of friends over the years due to this sort of behavior. Certainly, I feel sorry for anyone who lacks the social skills to make connections and keep people in their life, but the danger here is that you may overly indulge him to accommodate his problem and set yourself up for hurt later.
posted by deathpanels at 5:49 AM on May 10, 2013 [9 favorites]
I'd be upfront, on the phone or in person if you have brass balls, or in an email if you're more on the chicken-shit side. "Maurice, I really like you as a friend. The issue is that in gatherings you say things to me and to other people that are upsetting. I am having a small party for my graduation and as much as I like you, your previous inappropriate behavior in social situations means that for this occasion, I'd prefer it if you weren't included. You are a very sweet person, and I'm sure your heart is in the right place. Please respect my decision."
You're honest, you're letting him know what the issue is, and you're pretty firmly drawing the boundary for your friendship.
He may get his feelings hurt, but let's be real, he's not worried about hurting the feelings of others with his blather, so...it all balances out.
You'll know when you're an adult when you can plan events and do things with your pleasure and comfort in mind, and deliberately eliminate the people and situations that give you grief and aggrivation.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:16 AM on May 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
You're honest, you're letting him know what the issue is, and you're pretty firmly drawing the boundary for your friendship.
He may get his feelings hurt, but let's be real, he's not worried about hurting the feelings of others with his blather, so...it all balances out.
You'll know when you're an adult when you can plan events and do things with your pleasure and comfort in mind, and deliberately eliminate the people and situations that give you grief and aggrivation.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:16 AM on May 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
You'll know when you're an adult when you can plan events and do things with your pleasure and comfort in mind, and deliberately eliminate the people and situations that give you grief and aggrivation.Excellent summary. I'll add to that list: you will know you're an adult when it no longer bothers you that some people may be upset because of what you're doing on Friday night.
I think this is just part of leaving the world of tightly-knit college/post-adolescence social groups in which loyalty is absolute and drama springs up from the slightest of snubs. Part of it is that in slightly older social groups, many people have a partner, so not being invited to the party doesn't mean a night at home alone, it means a night with your partner.
posted by deathpanels at 6:25 AM on May 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
Can I just ask if anyone here has ever not-invited someone and preemptively, openly explained that the reason for it was the non-invitee's fundamental character?
posted by nelljie at 10:11 AM on May 10, 2013
posted by nelljie at 10:11 AM on May 10, 2013
It's ok to end friendships with people who are nice and generous. No, really.
Someone who doesn't respect boundaries, behaves in socially unacceptable ways, and writes off any feedback from friends about his comments and actions as: "You wouldn't be bothered if you read my favorite philosopher"--that's someone worth reconsidering as a "friend" regardless of his generosity or good intentions.
And, even if you want to keep considering yourselves friends, it's fine to not reward inappropriate behavior.
I'd not invite him to the party. If he finds out about the party and asks you about it, you can say, "Maurice, do you remember when you did X, and I asked you not to, and you said that my reaction was just because I hadn't read enough by your favorite philosopher? It seems like that's been happening a lot lately, and if you're not willing to hear me when I express a boundary or a personal preference, I don't know how to include you in things like my graduation party. I didn't want a repeat of X, so I didn't invite you. I like you, and at the same time, if you can't respect my boundaries, I have to enforce them on my own."
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:04 AM on May 10, 2013
Someone who doesn't respect boundaries, behaves in socially unacceptable ways, and writes off any feedback from friends about his comments and actions as: "You wouldn't be bothered if you read my favorite philosopher"--that's someone worth reconsidering as a "friend" regardless of his generosity or good intentions.
And, even if you want to keep considering yourselves friends, it's fine to not reward inappropriate behavior.
I'd not invite him to the party. If he finds out about the party and asks you about it, you can say, "Maurice, do you remember when you did X, and I asked you not to, and you said that my reaction was just because I hadn't read enough by your favorite philosopher? It seems like that's been happening a lot lately, and if you're not willing to hear me when I express a boundary or a personal preference, I don't know how to include you in things like my graduation party. I didn't want a repeat of X, so I didn't invite you. I like you, and at the same time, if you can't respect my boundaries, I have to enforce them on my own."
posted by Meg_Murry at 11:04 AM on May 10, 2013
I personally do not at all deal with grown ups who can't control their alcohol (tipsy is fine, just not full blown frat party drunkeness), unless it's a dear friend with an addiction problem, and then again I would not invite said friend to a party where alcohol will be served.
That and the 15 year difference don't look too good to me, so my advice is to slowly but surely get him out of your life. Not inviting him to this party would be a good start. You don't need to explain, just drift apart.
Make sure you pay him back, though.
posted by Tarumba at 11:08 AM on May 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
That and the 15 year difference don't look too good to me, so my advice is to slowly but surely get him out of your life. Not inviting him to this party would be a good start. You don't need to explain, just drift apart.
Make sure you pay him back, though.
posted by Tarumba at 11:08 AM on May 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
Can I just ask if anyone here has ever not-invited someone and preemptively, openly explained that the reason for it was the non-invitee's fundamental character?
While my usual MO is just to ignore someone until they go away, in this case the person is being aggressive in being included, which is beyond the boundaries one usually runs into in these situations.
If I was amassing a guest list, I'd merely not include the offending party, but if the offending party was hassling me about a party, threatening to throw one for me if I didn't plan one, I'd probably have to say something.
It's awkward when people don't take the hint.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:13 AM on May 10, 2013
While my usual MO is just to ignore someone until they go away, in this case the person is being aggressive in being included, which is beyond the boundaries one usually runs into in these situations.
If I was amassing a guest list, I'd merely not include the offending party, but if the offending party was hassling me about a party, threatening to throw one for me if I didn't plan one, I'd probably have to say something.
It's awkward when people don't take the hint.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:13 AM on May 10, 2013
Can I just ask if anyone here has ever not-invited someone and preemptively, openly explained that the reason for it was the non-invitee's fundamental character?The aforementioned "Steve" was explicitly un-invited to a party a mutual friend threw, and he was told it was because he would cause "conflicts."
posted by deathpanels at 3:46 PM on May 10, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mskyle at 5:44 PM on May 9, 2013 [3 favorites]