Chicago's Natural Light & Ventilation Ordinance
September 13, 2005 9:55 AM Subscribe
Anyone have any experience with Chicago's Natural Light & Ventilation Ordinance? My mother-in-law is buying a condo and some of her walls won't go to the ceiling so the second bedroom can get natural light. What does this mean practically speaking?
She signed her contract for a 2 bedroom/2 bath new construction condo in downtown Chicago. Now she's finding out that because her second bedroom doesn't have a window, and in order to call it a bedroom it must have natural light, the walls to her bedrooms are going to be 8 feet high, even though the ceiling is at 10 feet.
We're all concerned about what this will mean once you're in the condo -- will you be able to hear noises from the bedroom in the living room, and vice versa? Will this affect resale, and more importantly, renting the place (she has to rent for a while before she retires and moves from out-of-state)? We're still trying to figure out exactly what walls will be lowered, which of course will have an impact on privacy.
But if anyone can give us some first-hand experience with this sort of situation, it would really help her decide what to do next (if she can't rent it, there's little point in keeping it). Thanks!
She signed her contract for a 2 bedroom/2 bath new construction condo in downtown Chicago. Now she's finding out that because her second bedroom doesn't have a window, and in order to call it a bedroom it must have natural light, the walls to her bedrooms are going to be 8 feet high, even though the ceiling is at 10 feet.
We're all concerned about what this will mean once you're in the condo -- will you be able to hear noises from the bedroom in the living room, and vice versa? Will this affect resale, and more importantly, renting the place (she has to rent for a while before she retires and moves from out-of-state)? We're still trying to figure out exactly what walls will be lowered, which of course will have an impact on privacy.
But if anyone can give us some first-hand experience with this sort of situation, it would really help her decide what to do next (if she can't rent it, there's little point in keeping it). Thanks!
A lot of the dorm rooms at the college I went to were like this; I assume it had something to do with the college claiming the place was a one bedroom when it really had two bedrooms so there'd be cheaper taxes or something shady like that. One thing I noticed was that a lot of people would put up temporary blockers to fill in the gap. That's always an option.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:24 AM on September 13, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:24 AM on September 13, 2005 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: We've thought of that, and she's going to try to see if the wall will handle the load (though we may not know util the place is completed).
posted by evening at 11:25 AM on September 13, 2005
posted by evening at 11:25 AM on September 13, 2005
Here's the text of the ordinance. The pertinent sections seem to be (bolding mine):
That said, if the place is smaller than 1,300 sq. ft. total, you're only required to have one "bedroom", and you could designate the other as a "multi-purpose room" (although the area of said room has to be less that 15% of the total apartment space.) Officially, such multi-purpose rooms aren't supposed to be used as bedrooms, but it seems like you'd be in less trouble if someone found out about that than if you actually constructed something that violated the ordinance.
IANA architect, building inspector, or anything of the like, though.
posted by Johnny Assay at 11:53 AM on September 13, 2005
- Light required. Every room or space intended for human occupancy shall be provided either natural or artificial light; provided however that all living, dining and sleeping rooms in family dwelling units... shall be provided with natural light.
- Any dwelling unit with a floor area up to 1,300 sq.ft has at least one (1) bedroom as well as areas or rooms designated for living and dining, in addition to the multi-purpose room(s); any dwelling unit with a floor area over 1,300 sq. ft. has at least two (2) bedrooms as well as areas or rooms designated for living and dining, in addition to the multi-purpose room(s).
- Borrowed light for remote rooms. Where natural light for rooms or spaces without exterior glazing areas is provided through an adjoining room, the unobstructed opening to the adjoining room shall be at least 8 percent of the floor area of the interior room or space, but not less than 25 square feet (2.33 m²). The plane of the opening through which light is borrowed for a remote room without windows shall be parallel to the window wall. The exterior glazing area shall be based on the total floor area being served.
That said, if the place is smaller than 1,300 sq. ft. total, you're only required to have one "bedroom", and you could designate the other as a "multi-purpose room" (although the area of said room has to be less that 15% of the total apartment space.) Officially, such multi-purpose rooms aren't supposed to be used as bedrooms, but it seems like you'd be in less trouble if someone found out about that than if you actually constructed something that violated the ordinance.
IANA architect, building inspector, or anything of the like, though.
posted by Johnny Assay at 11:53 AM on September 13, 2005
Yeah, I've been in condos like this -- mostly conversions. New construction, though, they usually handle with notches in the building and so forth, so every room can have a window -- even if it doesn't actually have a *view*. But yes, there isn't much privacy for the bedroom, if that's important.
Glass block is heavy. A partial wall like this isn't designed to be load-bearing, so be forewarned about that. It will also need to be demolished before resale, so account for that. Enclosing the space will also impede ventilation, because they design it with the gap in mind. Whatever's pushing your air around might not be able to reach the room.
Personally, I'd consider something like a Japanese screen. A translucent sliding door, if you will, made of light material because it's such a small space to cover. Then privacy is adjustable, there isn't a lot of construction, and it's easy to remove.
posted by dhartung at 12:13 PM on September 13, 2005
Glass block is heavy. A partial wall like this isn't designed to be load-bearing, so be forewarned about that. It will also need to be demolished before resale, so account for that. Enclosing the space will also impede ventilation, because they design it with the gap in mind. Whatever's pushing your air around might not be able to reach the room.
Personally, I'd consider something like a Japanese screen. A translucent sliding door, if you will, made of light material because it's such a small space to cover. Then privacy is adjustable, there isn't a lot of construction, and it's easy to remove.
posted by dhartung at 12:13 PM on September 13, 2005
If you make a permanent alteration to the bedroom wall you likely won't be able to legally rent the place or sell it without removing the alteration.
The presence of the gap should not materially affect rent/resale since many places in Chicago have a similar layout.
So go with a temporary change if necessary.
...I have a friend who rented a condo that sounds exactly like the one you're talking about here. She said it was somewhat irritating, but not enough to bother with screwing around trying to "fix" the gap. Try it out first & see how things really work.
posted by aramaic at 12:17 PM on September 13, 2005
The presence of the gap should not materially affect rent/resale since many places in Chicago have a similar layout.
So go with a temporary change if necessary.
...I have a friend who rented a condo that sounds exactly like the one you're talking about here. She said it was somewhat irritating, but not enough to bother with screwing around trying to "fix" the gap. Try it out first & see how things really work.
posted by aramaic at 12:17 PM on September 13, 2005
To answer your question about noise levels, my partner and I looked at an apartment that had partial walls on the bedroom, in a configuration similar to what you describe. We tested it by having one person stand in the bedroom while the other and the RE agent stood elsewhere in the apartment. Every word could be heard, on both sides of the wall.
posted by me3dia at 12:36 PM on September 13, 2005
posted by me3dia at 12:36 PM on September 13, 2005
Wow, that's nuts. I guess the intent of the law was to prevent cave-like tenements, but it has become a pain in the ass to legitimate home-owners. I say leave it as is with the short walls while she is renting it and sheetrock the gap when she moves in. It would be relatively inexpensive and I'm sure you could find a local carpenter/handyman type who wouldn't sweat the building codes too much.
posted by monkeyman at 1:32 PM on September 13, 2005
posted by monkeyman at 1:32 PM on September 13, 2005
Response by poster: Thanks everyone for the comments so far.
me3dia: Thank you for letting us know - that is what we were afraid would happen (and what we wish we could do, but none of us are in Chicago!).
Johnny Assay: Thanks for pointing that out - I missed that unobstructed language.
posted by evening at 2:05 PM on September 13, 2005
me3dia: Thank you for letting us know - that is what we were afraid would happen (and what we wish we could do, but none of us are in Chicago!).
Johnny Assay: Thanks for pointing that out - I missed that unobstructed language.
posted by evening at 2:05 PM on September 13, 2005
Isn't this a "soft loft"? I've been to visit a bunch of condos that have that same kind of issue and it seems to be a selling point, not a negative.
posted by MeetMegan at 2:56 PM on September 13, 2005
posted by MeetMegan at 2:56 PM on September 13, 2005
I didn't see anything in the ordinance (on a light skim) that would preclude installing an operable window in whatever opening you have. It's not as soundproof as glass block, but would allow for ventilation if you really wanted it. As long as the operable area of the window meets the ventilation requirements for "borrowed ventilation," you should be okay.
I would be extremely surprised if you couldn't quite easily find a contractor to do this kind of thing, even if you did end up violating the code. In fact, I'd be more shocked if you actually found someone who wouldn't do it.
posted by LionIndex at 3:16 PM on September 13, 2005
I would be extremely surprised if you couldn't quite easily find a contractor to do this kind of thing, even if you did end up violating the code. In fact, I'd be more shocked if you actually found someone who wouldn't do it.
posted by LionIndex at 3:16 PM on September 13, 2005
Response by poster: Getting a contractor is not an issue as there are people in the family (who live in the area) who do that sort of thing. If she decides to do that (which is on the table), we'll look more into the options then. Though all your ideas are welcome now - thank you!
MeetMegan: No, I don't believe this is a loft situation, but an average condo. But maybe people will like it anyway and want to rent it (please, please).
posted by evening at 4:54 PM on September 13, 2005
MeetMegan: No, I don't believe this is a loft situation, but an average condo. But maybe people will like it anyway and want to rent it (please, please).
posted by evening at 4:54 PM on September 13, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by duck at 10:06 AM on September 13, 2005