Being solicited by colleague to become a premier member of Lyoness...

April 22, 2013 2:59 PM

Have any of you experience with this organization? Out of politeness, I went along to a meeting with my work colleague - just because I was tired of being asked every day by him - so I finally agreed ;(

The point is you have to pay 2500 dollars to enter. After this you have to engage four other members etc. For me, this sounded like a pyramid, but I was persuaded to believe that you will "earn" by cash-back percentages, and with time you will earn a lot.
Every day I am being "harassed" by my colleague, and it's becoming awkward. I even said at a point I did not wish to spend that kind of money, as I need to prioritise other things. He then offered to lend me the money - ugh!
Have googled for hours, but there are equally negative/positive elements, so that's why I wanted to ask if people here know of it - and what to say to him without offending him, if anybody has some good suggestions...
Thanks!

posted by anonymous to Work & Money (24 answers total)

This is a pyramid scheme. Please report it to your HR department or your supervisor.

Do not attend another meeting, definitely do not take the loan.
posted by bilabial at 3:02 PM on April 22, 2013 [30 favorites]

Run away from this! Give your work colleague a firm "NO" and, if he continues to harass you regarding this, report this to a supervisor.
posted by HuronBob at 3:07 PM on April 22, 2013

This is pretty well documented as a scam.

A quick search found about 100 articles including this one:
posted by bobdow at 3:12 PM on April 22, 2013

bobdow, that article is actually "explaining" why Lyoness is not a scam.
posted by thewumpusisdead at 3:15 PM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]

Watch out. Many of the links that come up on Google are clearly written by people trying to get referrals, even the one bobdow linked above.

This seems to be a decent review.
posted by smackfu at 3:16 PM on April 22, 2013

Don't put "harassed" in scare quotes - you are being harassed. This is a pyramid scheme, and you need to firmly shut it down with your coworker, and if he persists in harassing you, go to HR.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 3:17 PM on April 22, 2013 [5 favorites]

Any financial investment that has to harass you to get your participation is very likely not a good financial investment, even before I look it up on google.

Also, in order for this to be financially beneficial, you have to adopt the same behavior of this person who is harassing you. And not everyone you will engage to become a "member" will be nice as you about it.

So, the bottom line is that he is asking you to become like someone you don't like to participate, and on moral grounds, that should be quite a deal breaker. You wouldn't be saying yes to get him to go away at this point, you would be saying yes to do something that violates your code of ethics regarding how you treat people and money, even if it did end up making you money.
posted by SpacemanStix at 3:17 PM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]

What you say the next time: "No, and this is the end of the discussion. Do not bring it up again."

If he asks again, "No, and I'm going to go to HR."

Do not provide excuses for him to counter. If you can, just pretend you don't hear him once you've told him to stop.

Please note that almost every "positive" review in the first two pages of google results - and the link posted by another user above - is associated with a blog or domain with the word Lyoness in it. Psst - that's them posting their own positive reviews. It's a pyramid scheme. Your colleague is in so deep he's willing to pay for you to be one of his four suckers. He is a bad person who does not deserve any more of your time or attention no matter how much he hassles you. He is probably also a liability to your company if he has any contact with money. Report him; almost all employee manuals prohibit solicitation on company time/property.

Pursue some kind of discipline if he doesn't stop.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:17 PM on April 22, 2013 [7 favorites]

Hey, so let me give you the run down on how I interpret the googles on things like this:

is Lyoness a scam

The first hit is this blog. While ostensibly positive, this actually sets off my "THIS IS A SCAM" alarm:

* There's no clear indication of who's writing this. They don't claim to be official Lyoness spokespeople, but there's no other content, and no indication of motive. Why are they so interested in telling me that Lyoness is not a scam? Why is there no other context by which to evaluate these claims?

* They open with a specious comparison to a bricks and mortar store. (Costco). Costco makes money by selling you things. So that they sell you things instead of Walmart selling you things, they offer various discounts. Lyoness is not selling you things. This is not a good comparison. Why are they making a false analogy as the opener?

* Weird formatting. This is especially fishy in conjunction with my first bullet. The copy reads like a combination of official FAQ, email forward, and off the cuff convo: Weird line breaks, ALL CAPS EMPHASIS.

Also note: This page, which totally screams scammy to me, says that the things your coworker is doing are the things Lyoness representatives? aren't supposed to do.

The next hit is a post from this guy. All of the content seems to involve sketchy things: Herbal supplements, this one kid made a jillion dollars, etc.

The next few alternate between people saying "THIS IS A SCAM" and posts similar to the first one. THISISASCAM type posts are frequently on sites with other content, history, credibility. The 'totally legit!' posts are frequently standalone sites with no other content.

This Straight Dope thread is toward the bottom of the first page of results, and really clenches "this is a scam": Two new posters joining the thread specifically to talk about how awesome Lyoness is and how wrong all these people are. This is a piece of data that holds fairly high credibility with me: Similar to snopes, Straight Dope has been around for a while, and is known to have not-totally-stupid denizens. It's all about evaluating the people making the claims.

Conclusion? Totally a scam. Also they have someone doing SEO interference.
posted by PMdixon at 3:18 PM on April 22, 2013 [6 favorites]

Scam. Why would this work? In what world would a free money fountain work like this that ISN'T a ponzi/pyramid scheme? You're clearly too smart for that, but your co-worker isn't and they know it and their job is to hustle suckers to make back their poor investment. Don't be the "greater fool". Say no, not ever, stop asking, and I'm going to HR if you ask again.

Clearly not like you have a good relationship with this person anyway if that's all he talks about.
posted by disillusioned at 3:33 PM on April 22, 2013

People have pretty much covered the scam aspect of your question, but I think you should try and assert your boundaries more. You clearly didn't even want to go to the meeting but you went anyway "out of politeness" and after he kept harassing you to go. You need to ask yourself why you have such a hard time telling people no.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 3:39 PM on April 22, 2013 [4 favorites]

The correct answer is: I'm not interested. Full stop. Don't make excuses, don't try to spare his feelings. In the future don't go anywhere, with anyone out of politeness. Is he being polite? NO!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 3:46 PM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]

what to say to him without offending him

This guy obviously doesn't care about offending you. I would suggest worrying a whole lot less about his feelings, and focusing more on setting and enforcing boundaries.

We had a guy at work who was pressuring some of us who were friendly with him to go to Landmark. It got really obnoxious. He wouldn't quit, even after we point-blank told him to knock it off.

I finally shut it down by going to our department head. I phrased it as: "Just want to make you aware that there's an employee who has been badgering some of us to go to his Large Group Encounter meetings. Can you advise me the best way to handle it?" Dept head got on the problem and dealt with it.
posted by nacho fries at 3:48 PM on April 22, 2013 [5 favorites]

It sounds like you're got his hopes up, so I'll bet that you won't be allowed to say no without it being taken as an affront and he'll act really pouty for a while.

If "I've thought about it and decided against it" doesn't stop him, try following up with "I really don't want to have any more conversation about it" and "let's move on from this, ok?" etc..without being drawn into making excuses.

There is absolutely nothing to be gained in being overly nice to people.
posted by bonobothegreat at 3:58 PM on April 22, 2013

what to say to him without offending him

"I've thought it over and have decided against it," is a perfectly polite, more than generous response to an aggressive sales pitch from an acquaintance.

If he pushes you on it, it is perfectly polite and reasonable to say, "Jim, I'm really not interested. I've made my decision. Please stop bringing this up."

Frankly, you don't need a good reason not to make a $2500 investment, other than, "I don't want to." This is a scam, but even if it weren't, you'd still be completely within the bounds of reasonable behavior to decide not to buy in--and once you say no, it's rude for him to keep pressing.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:09 PM on April 22, 2013 [4 favorites]

Please don't engage with your colleague further about the pro's or cons of this opportunity.

It's not the issue, AT ALL, and by discussing the merits of this investment, you are the one prolonging this discussin.

"Jerry. I'm not interested. Please don't bring this up to me again. Thank you. So, did you read the latest acme report on our project?"

And if he brings it up again, you can ignore the question and change the subject, or....

"Please don't mention this to me again"
"I'm not interested"
"No thank you"
"No"

And finally

"Jerry, I'm not interested in a sales pitch. Should we have a meeting about this with our boss or HR?"
posted by jbenben at 4:50 PM on April 22, 2013 [9 favorites]

Just to add one more vote for this is definately a scam, and you shouldn't worry about offending him --- he sure doesn't care if YOU'RE offended or not!

Next time he brings this up: flat-out tell him "I am not interested, and do not want to hear any more about this. If you bring it up again, I'll be making a complaint to HR and our supervisor." If (or more likely, 'when') he mentions it yet again, say "Remember how I told you that I was not interested, and that if you brought it up again I'd be making a complaint to HR? Excuse me while I go do just that." Then DO IT.

Be explicit: You are not interested, do not mention it to you ever again. Tell him you'll make a complaint, and follow through.
posted by easily confused at 5:03 PM on April 22, 2013

Tell him if the opportunity were that great he wouldn't be having to harass you about it.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:14 PM on April 22, 2013

Your instincts are quite accurate. This guy is railroading you, and it's massively inappropriate for him to do this at work. Email him saying "I do not want to participate in this; please stop bringing it up." If he persists, complain to HR.
posted by theora55 at 5:17 PM on April 22, 2013

This is 100% scam. No question. Your colleague is either a dupe or a willing scammer.

Either way, jbenben's approach is the way to go.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:28 PM on April 22, 2013

what to say to him without offending him

It's not going to be possible to do this. Your coworker is using your fear of offending him to manipulate you and jerk you around, and he clearly doesn't have any misgivings about offending you.

To put a slightly different spin on what others have said, your refrain is that your coworker has no entitlement whatsoever to a conversation with you about your finances; how politely you put this is up to you. Just keep circling back to this without engaging in a discussion about the merits of the program if he persists.
posted by alphanerd at 9:05 PM on April 22, 2013

I'm not a member, and I don't live in the States, but the 2500 dollar thing is bugging me. In Europe it's free and you use it like a loyalty card to get cashback, afaik. Where does this paying 2500 dollars come from?
posted by devnull at 12:57 AM on April 23, 2013

If I understand right, besides the loyalty part of the company, you can also "pre-pay" for credit in the stores, and if you get enough referrals to do the same thing, you get a big payout.
posted by smackfu at 5:56 AM on April 23, 2013

After all these replies, I can't imagine you are still thinking about actually signing up, but if you are, I will ask you this question: Look around your office/family/friends and then decide: who will be YOUR 4 recruits? Give yourself some ratio of ask vs. participate - would 25% of the people you ask sign up? 10%? Pick a number. Now look around the same group of people - do you have 16 people you would ask to join? 40? I don't even know that many people well enough, and for those I do know: think about how you feel right now with that guy trying to recruit you. Are you willing to inflict that same anxiety on 40 of your friends? And knowing that you don't like to offend other people, could you even ask them? And if you do ask, how will you feel watching them squirm like you are now?

So, maybe that exercise is another good reason for you to just say no.
posted by CathyG at 10:29 AM on April 23, 2013