I want my daughter to love my mum.
April 22, 2013 7:02 AM Subscribe
My daughter is very lukewarm towards my mum. I can't understand why, and it makes me very sad. Wondering if anyone has experienced this kind of thing with a child.
My 2 year old daughter is very happy, very social, and pretty easy going. Also independent and confident. She is not shy at all, and not clingy towards me or my husband, she likes most people she knows and will happily hang out with them and let them do things for her (like dress her etc).
For some reason, she really holds back with my mum. Around my mum, she acts quite clingy to me, and when my mum tries to pick her up or do things for her, she always wants me. She'll say "I want my mother." Which is just kind of out-of-character.
She sees quite a lot of my parents because they live nearby and look after her every Friday. My parents LOVE her, and are very warm and loving towards her. (She is also a bit cool towards my dad, but not as noticeable as my mum.)
My mum has been someone who used to come across as cold, she is emotionally reserved and used to be quite high strung. In the past when I was young, my friends would always assume she didn't like them, because she wasn't a warm, smiley mother. I could see how they felt this way, but I also knew it wasn't the case, it's just the way she was. (She had an emotionally difficult childhood and also I think is just not naturally disposed to being emotionally relaxed... I don't think she knew how to put my friends at ease. She would act polite and kind of stiffly formal towards them when they came over.)
Anyway, she has loosened up a lot in the last few years, and she has always been very loving and demonstrative towards my daughter. More than with me or my siblings or anyone else. She always smiles and is very attentive with her - wants to read to her and play with her and do fun things with her. My daughter seems like the one person my mother CAN actually be emotionally expressive with (as in warm, smiley, affectionate).
But my daughter just kind of shuts her out. If she wasn't two, the behaviour would be painfully rude. But she is two! I find it very, very saddening. I just don't know what to do about it. My mum will try to give her a hug and she will just say "No!" and she really doesn't do this with anyone else. She ADORES my in-laws and will go to them over me (they are also more novel because she sees them less). But I will say to her "Give Grandma a hug" and she doesn't want to, and it pains me so greatly.
I think my mum thinks she is generally clingy to me - a "mummy's girl", or whatever, she makes comments of this nature sometimes, and I can't bear to tell her it's not the case, that it's only with her. But I also want to say to her that I feel so bad about how she is like that with her, but then to say that would be to inform her that she is not like that with other people, and I don't want my mum to know that.
It pains me so much. Because I have had many problems in my relationship with my mum over the years - because of how she is/was and how I am/was (we've had a complicated relationship that would take me an hour to explain), but I love her, and I appreciate her. She had 4 children and has always been very invested in us, and very attentive (if at times emotionally withheld). While she wasn't an effusive mother, I always felt loved by her. She was a good mother. We all turned out "well".
She is thrilled about having a grandchild, and has so much love to give. She found it hard when the four of us grew up and moved out, and she loves having family around. So I just can't bear that my daughter doesn't seem to love her.
I have tried asking my daughter why she is like this, eg when she says she doesn't want to go to Grandma and Grandpa's, I ask her why. She can't answer me. I try to discuss it with her but she's just too young to express it.
Does anyone have any advice on anything I can do (I realise probably nothing), any insights, or maybe how I can think about this differently? It "hurts me deep inside". Thank you.
My 2 year old daughter is very happy, very social, and pretty easy going. Also independent and confident. She is not shy at all, and not clingy towards me or my husband, she likes most people she knows and will happily hang out with them and let them do things for her (like dress her etc).
For some reason, she really holds back with my mum. Around my mum, she acts quite clingy to me, and when my mum tries to pick her up or do things for her, she always wants me. She'll say "I want my mother." Which is just kind of out-of-character.
She sees quite a lot of my parents because they live nearby and look after her every Friday. My parents LOVE her, and are very warm and loving towards her. (She is also a bit cool towards my dad, but not as noticeable as my mum.)
My mum has been someone who used to come across as cold, she is emotionally reserved and used to be quite high strung. In the past when I was young, my friends would always assume she didn't like them, because she wasn't a warm, smiley mother. I could see how they felt this way, but I also knew it wasn't the case, it's just the way she was. (She had an emotionally difficult childhood and also I think is just not naturally disposed to being emotionally relaxed... I don't think she knew how to put my friends at ease. She would act polite and kind of stiffly formal towards them when they came over.)
Anyway, she has loosened up a lot in the last few years, and she has always been very loving and demonstrative towards my daughter. More than with me or my siblings or anyone else. She always smiles and is very attentive with her - wants to read to her and play with her and do fun things with her. My daughter seems like the one person my mother CAN actually be emotionally expressive with (as in warm, smiley, affectionate).
But my daughter just kind of shuts her out. If she wasn't two, the behaviour would be painfully rude. But she is two! I find it very, very saddening. I just don't know what to do about it. My mum will try to give her a hug and she will just say "No!" and she really doesn't do this with anyone else. She ADORES my in-laws and will go to them over me (they are also more novel because she sees them less). But I will say to her "Give Grandma a hug" and she doesn't want to, and it pains me so greatly.
I think my mum thinks she is generally clingy to me - a "mummy's girl", or whatever, she makes comments of this nature sometimes, and I can't bear to tell her it's not the case, that it's only with her. But I also want to say to her that I feel so bad about how she is like that with her, but then to say that would be to inform her that she is not like that with other people, and I don't want my mum to know that.
It pains me so much. Because I have had many problems in my relationship with my mum over the years - because of how she is/was and how I am/was (we've had a complicated relationship that would take me an hour to explain), but I love her, and I appreciate her. She had 4 children and has always been very invested in us, and very attentive (if at times emotionally withheld). While she wasn't an effusive mother, I always felt loved by her. She was a good mother. We all turned out "well".
She is thrilled about having a grandchild, and has so much love to give. She found it hard when the four of us grew up and moved out, and she loves having family around. So I just can't bear that my daughter doesn't seem to love her.
I have tried asking my daughter why she is like this, eg when she says she doesn't want to go to Grandma and Grandpa's, I ask her why. She can't answer me. I try to discuss it with her but she's just too young to express it.
Does anyone have any advice on anything I can do (I realise probably nothing), any insights, or maybe how I can think about this differently? It "hurts me deep inside". Thank you.
Is there anything at all "unusual" about the way your mother looks, or gestures, speaking patterns or similar? When I was about two I would scream when I was anywhere near a bald man. My parents' friends were all so excited when I was born because my parents had kids late for their peer group, and they had two bald friends in particular who completely adored me but I would scream bloody murder if they tried to touch me or talk to me.
Obviously I grew out of it pretty quickly, but I still feel a bit badly about it! Kids and cats can have strange quirks. I'm sorry you're going through this, but hopefully it will work itself out soon.
posted by sweetkid at 7:15 AM on April 22, 2013
Obviously I grew out of it pretty quickly, but I still feel a bit badly about it! Kids and cats can have strange quirks. I'm sorry you're going through this, but hopefully it will work itself out soon.
posted by sweetkid at 7:15 AM on April 22, 2013
Your mother sounds like one of my grandmothers. (Especially the "emotionally withheld" bit.) When I was young, I did not like her; I wouldn't go to her and I'd flip out if she tried to pick me up. On the other hand, I adored my grandpa. My grandma eventually started bribing us, which still makes me sad to think about it because I love her dearly and we've got a great relationship now. It's just a weird vibe that kids pick up on I think. All I can really say is I think your daughter will outgrow it.
posted by mibo at 7:20 AM on April 22, 2013
posted by mibo at 7:20 AM on April 22, 2013
A couple of things:
- As HuronBob points out, your daughter sees how your mother behaves with others and sees that mother treats grandchild differently. This is suspicious.
- You are the centre of your child's universe. If you are uneasy around mom, or if mom is not treating you well, then your kid will take your side and not engage with mom.
- She is two. Two year olds like power struggles and saying "No!". It gives them a modicum of control in the world (maybe she wants to stop uneasy feelings?)
You will have to step back in asking your child to demonstrate affection. It invites power struggle and is counterproductive. Also stop asking her why she doesn't want to go to Grandma's. She doesn't get a choice. She is two, she doesn't get to choose how she spends her evenings, that's an adult job. Chill out (you and grandma) and she might come around in a while (years).
posted by crazycanuck at 7:21 AM on April 22, 2013 [6 favorites]
- As HuronBob points out, your daughter sees how your mother behaves with others and sees that mother treats grandchild differently. This is suspicious.
- You are the centre of your child's universe. If you are uneasy around mom, or if mom is not treating you well, then your kid will take your side and not engage with mom.
- She is two. Two year olds like power struggles and saying "No!". It gives them a modicum of control in the world (maybe she wants to stop uneasy feelings?)
You will have to step back in asking your child to demonstrate affection. It invites power struggle and is counterproductive. Also stop asking her why she doesn't want to go to Grandma's. She doesn't get a choice. She is two, she doesn't get to choose how she spends her evenings, that's an adult job. Chill out (you and grandma) and she might come around in a while (years).
posted by crazycanuck at 7:21 AM on April 22, 2013 [6 favorites]
I suspect she either senses the more aloof and anxious aspects of your mother' s personality or senses a subconscious change in you when you are around your mother that reflects your "complicated" feelings towards her.
Give her time, she will soon learn that her Grandma is trying to display affection and be able to accept that happily despite any weird 'vibes'.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 7:21 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Give her time, she will soon learn that her Grandma is trying to display affection and be able to accept that happily despite any weird 'vibes'.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 7:21 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you're mother isn't usually demonstrative and she's making an effort with your daughter, then your daughter is probably picking up on a non-genuine vibe. Even if your mother is 100% genuine, if it's not in her nature to be fun & cuddly, then your daughter's instincts are picking up on something being amiss. These are good instincts, actually, although we do a pretty good job of stifling them.
Your daughter doesn't see your mother being smiley and affectionate toward you, or your husband, or other kids, or anyone else.
Your mother should relax and not ask more of your daughter than she asks of anyone else, and you should not pressure your daughter to give affection to people she doesn't feel comfortable with. No drama, no attention drawn to it, just ok "maybe another time" and you & grandma should hug instead. Unless that would be weird.
posted by headnsouth at 7:22 AM on April 22, 2013 [9 favorites]
Your daughter doesn't see your mother being smiley and affectionate toward you, or your husband, or other kids, or anyone else.
Your mother should relax and not ask more of your daughter than she asks of anyone else, and you should not pressure your daughter to give affection to people she doesn't feel comfortable with. No drama, no attention drawn to it, just ok "maybe another time" and you & grandma should hug instead. Unless that would be weird.
posted by headnsouth at 7:22 AM on April 22, 2013 [9 favorites]
Does anyone have any advice on anything I can do (I realise probably nothing), any insights, or maybe how I can think about this differently?
Yes but they're not particularly palatable.
It pains me so much. Because I have had many problems in my relationship with my mum over the years
Your daughter's present relationship with your mother is not a substitute, band-aide or salve for your past relationship with your mother. One of your jobs as the two of your grow together is to learn to separate her emotional connections to people from yours. At two, and increasingly as she ages, she is her own person and not the extension of you she was as an infant.
But I will say to her "Give Grandma a hug" and she doesn't want to, and it pains me so greatly.
Well don't do that. First of all, teaching your daughter that she has to submit herself to unwanted physical touch is a really bad idea. Second of all, if it hurts you, stop doing it. Third of all, by repeating this conversation you are turning this into a power struggle, and you're not going to win.
She's two. How she feels about Grandma or Dora or carrots or dogs will change, multiple times and seemingly on a whim. Parental Preference in toddlers is a well-studied developmental phase, and it's possible there is something similar going on here between grandmothers. But the question you should be asking yourself today is not how can you make your toddler love someone she doesn't like, but rather how can you help your mother make friends with your toddler.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:25 AM on April 22, 2013 [62 favorites]
Yes but they're not particularly palatable.
It pains me so much. Because I have had many problems in my relationship with my mum over the years
Your daughter's present relationship with your mother is not a substitute, band-aide or salve for your past relationship with your mother. One of your jobs as the two of your grow together is to learn to separate her emotional connections to people from yours. At two, and increasingly as she ages, she is her own person and not the extension of you she was as an infant.
But I will say to her "Give Grandma a hug" and she doesn't want to, and it pains me so greatly.
Well don't do that. First of all, teaching your daughter that she has to submit herself to unwanted physical touch is a really bad idea. Second of all, if it hurts you, stop doing it. Third of all, by repeating this conversation you are turning this into a power struggle, and you're not going to win.
She's two. How she feels about Grandma or Dora or carrots or dogs will change, multiple times and seemingly on a whim. Parental Preference in toddlers is a well-studied developmental phase, and it's possible there is something similar going on here between grandmothers. But the question you should be asking yourself today is not how can you make your toddler love someone she doesn't like, but rather how can you help your mother make friends with your toddler.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:25 AM on April 22, 2013 [62 favorites]
Does your mum wear any perfume or such that your daughter might not like?
posted by Right On Red at 7:26 AM on April 22, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Right On Red at 7:26 AM on April 22, 2013 [5 favorites]
Your daughter gets to choose who she hugs, gets touched by, and yes, who she likes. These are her boundaries. I would respect them. Firstly, because she is a person in her own right and gets to make these choices (even if she's only two) and also because I suspect your pressuring her - like questioning her motives and interrogating her (!!!) - actually makes the situation worse. The more you pressure a toddler, the higher your expectations are, the more she will resist. This is the age where they learn to assert themselves.
If your relationship to your mum is still fragile and you feel sorry for her -and maybe also angry at her - you have to figure this out between the two of you. Do not use a 2-year old as a placeholder for the child you once were.
posted by The Toad at 7:27 AM on April 22, 2013 [33 favorites]
If your relationship to your mum is still fragile and you feel sorry for her -and maybe also angry at her - you have to figure this out between the two of you. Do not use a 2-year old as a placeholder for the child you once were.
posted by The Toad at 7:27 AM on April 22, 2013 [33 favorites]
Does she by any chance smoke or wear perfume?
posted by Perplexity at 7:28 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Perplexity at 7:28 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
One way of thinking about it is that two year olds perceive the world very simplistically. After two, they start to understand things in a more complex way. You see this most clearly as they try to process the world as they transition from getting what they want to having to work by a whole bunch of rules about what they can and can't do, when why and where. And they throw tantrums.
Your mother sounds like a complex person, and your daughter is uncomfortable with her. Your daughter might be picking up all sorts of vibes - she might feel, for example, that being affectionate to your mother is a conflict with loving you based on how you interact with your mother. Your mother may just not be a young kid kind of grandmother - she might be intimidating in some way that is not immediately perceptible to you - her face, her voice, smell, touch, whether she has a different manner with how she treats adults and children. The contrast between how you mother and how she grandmothers might be intimidating. We can't really say.
Your daughter will likely outgrow this. As she learns to understand the world with more nuance and develops more independence she will also learn how to relate to your grandmother as an individual. At two, she isn't really capable of making sense of all that information. She just thinks something is off and chooses to withdraw from it.
It's also worth adding that two year olds entering a rule-based world also fight to exercise control where they can for no particular reason - I won't eat this, I want to wear that etc. Who your daughter hugs is personal to her and one of the places where she can exercise control. Making affection for her grandmother not an issue of control/resistance is a good idea because if it's something that is important to you then it becomes a point of negotiation for a two year old brain.
posted by MuffinMan at 7:32 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Your mother sounds like a complex person, and your daughter is uncomfortable with her. Your daughter might be picking up all sorts of vibes - she might feel, for example, that being affectionate to your mother is a conflict with loving you based on how you interact with your mother. Your mother may just not be a young kid kind of grandmother - she might be intimidating in some way that is not immediately perceptible to you - her face, her voice, smell, touch, whether she has a different manner with how she treats adults and children. The contrast between how you mother and how she grandmothers might be intimidating. We can't really say.
Your daughter will likely outgrow this. As she learns to understand the world with more nuance and develops more independence she will also learn how to relate to your grandmother as an individual. At two, she isn't really capable of making sense of all that information. She just thinks something is off and chooses to withdraw from it.
It's also worth adding that two year olds entering a rule-based world also fight to exercise control where they can for no particular reason - I won't eat this, I want to wear that etc. Who your daughter hugs is personal to her and one of the places where she can exercise control. Making affection for her grandmother not an issue of control/resistance is a good idea because if it's something that is important to you then it becomes a point of negotiation for a two year old brain.
posted by MuffinMan at 7:32 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Just to deviate from the other very good comments here: does your mother look quite a lot like you?
The only reason I ask is that my daughter freaked the hell out for a good long time with her paternal aunt. See, my daughter's aunt looks like a female version of her father - but with glasses and no stubble. She was also abnormally shy with my mum, who looks just like me.
She's got to know both of them on her terms in her own time. There's still some confusion (She calls her father Daddy Auntie Sarah" and her aunt "Auntie Sarah Daddy"), but she is much less reserved now.
posted by katiecat at 7:33 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
The only reason I ask is that my daughter freaked the hell out for a good long time with her paternal aunt. See, my daughter's aunt looks like a female version of her father - but with glasses and no stubble. She was also abnormally shy with my mum, who looks just like me.
She's got to know both of them on her terms in her own time. There's still some confusion (She calls her father Daddy Auntie Sarah" and her aunt "Auntie Sarah Daddy"), but she is much less reserved now.
posted by katiecat at 7:33 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
She's too young to understand but she groks the situation. Be patient with your daughter and firm with your mother in resolving these underlying issues between you. It seems a bit unfair to ask your daughter to have a relationship with your mother, when your relationship with her is strained. Also, asking her to 'force' displays of affection is definitely not the way to go about this. Your mother (in the best way possible) might need to realize that in some ways, because she can be expressive towards your daughter, needs to apply that to her other relationships. I understand she had a difficult childhood, but so did you. It would pain you more if your daughter internalizes all of these issues when she grows up. If your mom wants to have a relationship with your daughter she has to resolve the one with you or your daughter will continue to be afraid of the weird vibes and social clues and will need to be 'protected' from her.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:33 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by lunastellasol at 7:33 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Here's the thing. Your daughter is actually under no obligation at all to like or enjoy the company of your mother, no matter how badly it hurts your feelings or those of your mom's. If you go out of your way to insist that your daughter demonstrate affection toward somebody she is visibly Not Okay around, you are going to be sending your daughter the message that her feelings and needs do not matter, and that could be profoundly damaging to your daughter later on down the line as she learns how to trust her gut and set up boundaries to protect herself. Respect your daughter here and don't allow your desire for her to love your mom to override that and turn your thoughts towards your daughter into resentment or judgement. There's nothing wrong with your kid.
It's possible that if you and your mother were to start being very demonstrative towards each other that your daughter might feel more warmly towards her grandmother. It's also possible that when you're not there, your mom shows affection in ways that are suffocating or scary to your daughter, and that's why she's lukewarm towards Grandma now. Maybe Grandma just smells odd, or does something around your daughter that makes her weirded out. There could be many explanations. But right now none of them really matter.
What matters is that your daughter is not interested, and you need to get on board with that and champion her needs for her to other people. You cannot and should not try to fix the relationship you have with your mom through your daughter, so please don't try. Just wait and see, and ask your mom to let her granddaughter come to her rather than force herself upon her. Grandma should still speak warmly and kindly to her, but if Grandma wants a hug, Daughter should get a choice as to whether or not she participates, and her choice needs to be respected without ANY trace of a guilt trip on your part or your mom's.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:34 AM on April 22, 2013 [20 favorites]
It's possible that if you and your mother were to start being very demonstrative towards each other that your daughter might feel more warmly towards her grandmother. It's also possible that when you're not there, your mom shows affection in ways that are suffocating or scary to your daughter, and that's why she's lukewarm towards Grandma now. Maybe Grandma just smells odd, or does something around your daughter that makes her weirded out. There could be many explanations. But right now none of them really matter.
What matters is that your daughter is not interested, and you need to get on board with that and champion her needs for her to other people. You cannot and should not try to fix the relationship you have with your mom through your daughter, so please don't try. Just wait and see, and ask your mom to let her granddaughter come to her rather than force herself upon her. Grandma should still speak warmly and kindly to her, but if Grandma wants a hug, Daughter should get a choice as to whether or not she participates, and her choice needs to be respected without ANY trace of a guilt trip on your part or your mom's.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:34 AM on April 22, 2013 [20 favorites]
Don't make the relationship between your child and your mom about you.
I was a very independent child and I liked who I liked and I actively disliked who I disliked. I'd catch a vibe from someone and that was it. Sometimes I'd warm up, sometimes...not. (I'm still iffy about my Uncle.)
As I got older, I became more polite about it, but I still insisted on my boundaries.
Your daughter is her own person, even at two. If she'd prefer not to interact with your mom, the way you want her to interact with your mom, you have to respect her right to do that.
Things are fine the way they are. This is all about YOU, not about your Mom or about your daughter. You have an expectation and you want your daughter to fulfill it.
Instead of having your daughter demonstrate your love for your mom, why don't you do it? Be as cuddly and huggy and loving to your mom as you want to be. Don't hold back your feelings because your mom seems to accept love more easily from children.
Your daughter may be modeling your behavior around your mom.
Who knows, two year olds are weird.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:36 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
I was a very independent child and I liked who I liked and I actively disliked who I disliked. I'd catch a vibe from someone and that was it. Sometimes I'd warm up, sometimes...not. (I'm still iffy about my Uncle.)
As I got older, I became more polite about it, but I still insisted on my boundaries.
Your daughter is her own person, even at two. If she'd prefer not to interact with your mom, the way you want her to interact with your mom, you have to respect her right to do that.
Things are fine the way they are. This is all about YOU, not about your Mom or about your daughter. You have an expectation and you want your daughter to fulfill it.
Instead of having your daughter demonstrate your love for your mom, why don't you do it? Be as cuddly and huggy and loving to your mom as you want to be. Don't hold back your feelings because your mom seems to accept love more easily from children.
Your daughter may be modeling your behavior around your mom.
Who knows, two year olds are weird.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:36 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: My mum doesn't smoke or wear excessive perfume. (Nanna -my husband's mum- wears heaps of perfume and it doesn't bother daughter at all.)
I realise there is something in here about me and my relationship with my mum, I guess that;s why I included so much information about it.
The thing is, my mum is really nice to me and my husband, she totally genuinely loves us and does so much for us. My husband really likes her. It's just not an effusive kind of love. It's genuine and deep and real, but sort of polite. I get that maybe my daughter is suss on the way my mum treats her (out of character) but it really is genuine.
I think the advice about letting go, letting it be, and not trying to force it, is good. The thing is, whenever I say "give grandma a hug" and my daughter resists, my mum is always very gracious about it and says "another time" or "that's okay, she doesn't have to." My mum never forces it.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your insights, even if they seem harsh. I know there's something weird going on. And that I am way too invested in my daughter loving my mum... and maybe there is something about about how I want my mum to have in my daughter something she can't have in me... or to be free to show my daughter all the love she wasn't able to show me. Or I want my daughter to make her feel loved in a way that I couldn't, because of how she was. I guess I held back too, when I was young, because my mum was so tense (emotionally repressed).
So many thoughts... nothing is simple!
posted by saturn~jupiter at 7:38 AM on April 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
I realise there is something in here about me and my relationship with my mum, I guess that;s why I included so much information about it.
The thing is, my mum is really nice to me and my husband, she totally genuinely loves us and does so much for us. My husband really likes her. It's just not an effusive kind of love. It's genuine and deep and real, but sort of polite. I get that maybe my daughter is suss on the way my mum treats her (out of character) but it really is genuine.
I think the advice about letting go, letting it be, and not trying to force it, is good. The thing is, whenever I say "give grandma a hug" and my daughter resists, my mum is always very gracious about it and says "another time" or "that's okay, she doesn't have to." My mum never forces it.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your insights, even if they seem harsh. I know there's something weird going on. And that I am way too invested in my daughter loving my mum... and maybe there is something about about how I want my mum to have in my daughter something she can't have in me... or to be free to show my daughter all the love she wasn't able to show me. Or I want my daughter to make her feel loved in a way that I couldn't, because of how she was. I guess I held back too, when I was young, because my mum was so tense (emotionally repressed).
So many thoughts... nothing is simple!
posted by saturn~jupiter at 7:38 AM on April 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
everything ruthless bunny said
posted by lunastellasol at 7:39 AM on April 22, 2013
posted by lunastellasol at 7:39 AM on April 22, 2013
It's possible that your mother is uncomfortable and even if she has loosened up your daughter could be picking up on it. Kids are pretty perceptive. I was this way with my grandparents except that I didn't mind hanging out with my grandma, but my grandpa wasn't exactly the warm/fuzzy type and I didn't know how to act around him. My grandma had issues too but not as bad, I just remember one time when my mom suggested that I could go spend a few weeks with them alone over the summer and I freaked out because I didn't want to.
Whatever you do don't try to force your daughter into acting a certain way. When I didn't want to spend the summer with my grandparents I remember my mom having a negative reaction which made me think there must be something wrong with me for feeling as I did.
posted by fromageball at 7:42 AM on April 22, 2013
Whatever you do don't try to force your daughter into acting a certain way. When I didn't want to spend the summer with my grandparents I remember my mom having a negative reaction which made me think there must be something wrong with me for feeling as I did.
posted by fromageball at 7:42 AM on April 22, 2013
I remember feeling this way towards my grandmother at various points in my childhood. Like your daughter's situation, my grandmother was also emotionally cold, and she was also one of my primary caregivers as a child as well as the relative I saw more than any of my other extended family members.
I don't know if this makes sense, but I remember having a feeling of "you're not my mom", or that my grandmother was mean and bossy (because when watching me she took on more of a parenting role rather than a babysitting role, not because she was actually mean). It felt like visiting her house -- which was a constant fixture in my childhood -- was a time for rules and limits and NO and don't touch that. You say your mother is affectionate towards your daughter, so this might not apply to your situation.
posted by Sara C. at 7:48 AM on April 22, 2013
I don't know if this makes sense, but I remember having a feeling of "you're not my mom", or that my grandmother was mean and bossy (because when watching me she took on more of a parenting role rather than a babysitting role, not because she was actually mean). It felt like visiting her house -- which was a constant fixture in my childhood -- was a time for rules and limits and NO and don't touch that. You say your mother is affectionate towards your daughter, so this might not apply to your situation.
posted by Sara C. at 7:48 AM on April 22, 2013
But my daughter just kind of shuts her out. If she wasn't two, the behaviour would be painfully rude. But she is two!
I would say that her being two is the reason she's doing this. Two-year-olds can be very self-absorbed. Also - as I've learned from my mother, who worked in child care her whole life and is the freakin' Toddler Whisperer -- two-year-olds can be a little more sensitive to different kinds of sensory input than you'd think. I'm not talking like autism spectrum here, more like they're still continuing the process of figuring out how to process information input. You know how overwhelmed you feel when you've got a lot of things going on around you at once and your attention is scattered because you're trying to figure out what's going on with all the different stuff going on all around you? Two-year-olds feel a little like that all the time.
So just like you wouldn't necessarily feel like dropping everything and being all happy-perky-social with someone you don't quite know all that well yet, especially if they spontaneusly showed up at your office on a very busy day, your daughter isn't going to be all into the idea of hugging her grandma just because you've asked her to.
Just wait and see, and ask your mom to let her granddaughter come to her rather than force herself upon her. Grandma should still speak warmly and kindly to her, but if Grandma wants a hug, Daughter should get a choice as to whether or not she participates, and her choice needs to be respected without ANY trace of a guilt trip on your part or your mom's.
Seconding this. I don't live near my family so my niece doesn't see me as much - so my brother didn't tell her to give me a hug when I visited. Instead, I asked her "can I have a hug?" when I was leaving, and she gave me one. I also would have been cool if she'd said no. Two-year-olds are a lot like cats - they want to have a say in whether they show you affection or not. And, sometimes they decide that yes they do (at some point, my niece wandered over to me while she was munching on a cookie, and started to hand me a piece of apple - but then she stopped, sized me up, then gave me the cookie instead. I took it as a compliment.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:49 AM on April 22, 2013 [4 favorites]
I would say that her being two is the reason she's doing this. Two-year-olds can be very self-absorbed. Also - as I've learned from my mother, who worked in child care her whole life and is the freakin' Toddler Whisperer -- two-year-olds can be a little more sensitive to different kinds of sensory input than you'd think. I'm not talking like autism spectrum here, more like they're still continuing the process of figuring out how to process information input. You know how overwhelmed you feel when you've got a lot of things going on around you at once and your attention is scattered because you're trying to figure out what's going on with all the different stuff going on all around you? Two-year-olds feel a little like that all the time.
So just like you wouldn't necessarily feel like dropping everything and being all happy-perky-social with someone you don't quite know all that well yet, especially if they spontaneusly showed up at your office on a very busy day, your daughter isn't going to be all into the idea of hugging her grandma just because you've asked her to.
Just wait and see, and ask your mom to let her granddaughter come to her rather than force herself upon her. Grandma should still speak warmly and kindly to her, but if Grandma wants a hug, Daughter should get a choice as to whether or not she participates, and her choice needs to be respected without ANY trace of a guilt trip on your part or your mom's.
Seconding this. I don't live near my family so my niece doesn't see me as much - so my brother didn't tell her to give me a hug when I visited. Instead, I asked her "can I have a hug?" when I was leaving, and she gave me one. I also would have been cool if she'd said no. Two-year-olds are a lot like cats - they want to have a say in whether they show you affection or not. And, sometimes they decide that yes they do (at some point, my niece wandered over to me while she was munching on a cookie, and started to hand me a piece of apple - but then she stopped, sized me up, then gave me the cookie instead. I took it as a compliment.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:49 AM on April 22, 2013 [4 favorites]
May I suggest that you may want to go to a few sessions with a good CBT-practicing therapist to work through these concerns? It sounds like you're still really hurt by the way your mother did or did not demonstrate her love towards you when you were young, and given your history and hers it is understandable that you would still be smarting from such a strained relationship with her. It might even be good for your mom to go with you so you can work through this together.
You just can't work through it through your daughter.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:50 AM on April 22, 2013
You just can't work through it through your daughter.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:50 AM on April 22, 2013
Response by poster: also - my mum doesn't look weird or unusual or have any weird character traits or mannerisms. we look a bit alike but I also look like my dad.
When my daughter spends fridays with my parents, they always tell me she was fine with them. She is happy to see me return, and doesn't seem traumatised in any way. I don't think she has a bad time. She just would rather be with me.
Yes, I definitely need to honour my daughter's feelings rather than panic about them... I think I was just so excited to give my mum a grandchild (the first) but a lot of it was about how I wanted my child to fulfil some "need to love" that my mum had, that I wanted transferred from me to my daughter... I've for years felt guilty about not being able to give my mum enough love, or allow her to love me enough... and having a kid seemed like the perfect thing to deal with that - here's someone you can love the shit out of mum! here's someone you can be not-emotionally-repressed towards... and take the pressure off me! I have never thought about all this, and how it might have impacted my daughter. I've just been so sad about it. Wow. you come on here with a question and get a bit of psychotherapy. what a great resource!
posted by saturn~jupiter at 7:50 AM on April 22, 2013 [10 favorites]
When my daughter spends fridays with my parents, they always tell me she was fine with them. She is happy to see me return, and doesn't seem traumatised in any way. I don't think she has a bad time. She just would rather be with me.
Yes, I definitely need to honour my daughter's feelings rather than panic about them... I think I was just so excited to give my mum a grandchild (the first) but a lot of it was about how I wanted my child to fulfil some "need to love" that my mum had, that I wanted transferred from me to my daughter... I've for years felt guilty about not being able to give my mum enough love, or allow her to love me enough... and having a kid seemed like the perfect thing to deal with that - here's someone you can love the shit out of mum! here's someone you can be not-emotionally-repressed towards... and take the pressure off me! I have never thought about all this, and how it might have impacted my daughter. I've just been so sad about it. Wow. you come on here with a question and get a bit of psychotherapy. what a great resource!
posted by saturn~jupiter at 7:50 AM on April 22, 2013 [10 favorites]
On your follow up, don't worry that your daughter is too young to process the kind of adult loving actions and words that your mom shows towards you and your husband. She will get it, she just doesn't understand that yet.
I also don't think that telling your daughter to give Grandma a hug, as long as you're not militant about it, is going to scar her for life. I think people here may be projecting some of their own childhood trauma onto the situation. There is no point in getting in a power struggle about it, but encouraging her to hug or kiss Grandma once in a while is not a bad thing.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 7:51 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
I also don't think that telling your daughter to give Grandma a hug, as long as you're not militant about it, is going to scar her for life. I think people here may be projecting some of their own childhood trauma onto the situation. There is no point in getting in a power struggle about it, but encouraging her to hug or kiss Grandma once in a while is not a bad thing.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 7:51 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's a lot harder to navigate the repressed emotions you had in your childhood now that you are an adult. I myself struggle with the relationship I have with my mother. I love her to pieces and always adored her, she was my hero. But to her, she thought I hated her and couldn't understand why I didn't love her when all she did was try to make me happy. But that's part of the issue you see and it becomes a cycle that unless you actively try to bridge the distance between you, will only ever widen.
Little things and baby steps. Careful considerations in getting to know your mother as a person, not just as your mother. What does she like to do? Hobbies? What small thoughtful gesture can you or your husband do to make her realize she is loved and appreciated? This might seem too difficult for you, but why not try to relate to her regarding her childhood. Have a candid discussion just the two of you starting off with, "Was I this ornery to you?" And see if that can lead you to safe waters that you can have an adult conversation with her about.
It's difficult when you want to go back and relive the past and make it better than it once was. But the past is the past, and you and your mother's relationship is now, not what it was back then. You wouldn't harp on your husband and act tense around him if he did something asinine or [insert transgression here] while you were dating.
Let the past stay the past and be gentle with your mother. Show her that you can be the mother she always wanted to be to you, and ask for the strength and guidance to be able to provide that for your daughter.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:52 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Little things and baby steps. Careful considerations in getting to know your mother as a person, not just as your mother. What does she like to do? Hobbies? What small thoughtful gesture can you or your husband do to make her realize she is loved and appreciated? This might seem too difficult for you, but why not try to relate to her regarding her childhood. Have a candid discussion just the two of you starting off with, "Was I this ornery to you?" And see if that can lead you to safe waters that you can have an adult conversation with her about.
It's difficult when you want to go back and relive the past and make it better than it once was. But the past is the past, and you and your mother's relationship is now, not what it was back then. You wouldn't harp on your husband and act tense around him if he did something asinine or [insert transgression here] while you were dating.
Let the past stay the past and be gentle with your mother. Show her that you can be the mother she always wanted to be to you, and ask for the strength and guidance to be able to provide that for your daughter.
posted by lunastellasol at 7:52 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: So much great advice here, I'm so grateful.
I think I would benefit from talking to a professional therapist about this. I didn't realise it would be such a goldmine of revealing thoughts and emotions. I used to think constantly about seeing a therapist to talk about my relationship with my mother, but I never got around to it (dumb, I know).
Now my relationship with her is actually better than it's been for years, so I didn't think I needed to go anymore. But maybe this is actually a good time to go. THings are good, but this has come up, and just because things are good doesn't mean there is not a whole lot of shit to process.
posted by saturn~jupiter at 7:59 AM on April 22, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think I would benefit from talking to a professional therapist about this. I didn't realise it would be such a goldmine of revealing thoughts and emotions. I used to think constantly about seeing a therapist to talk about my relationship with my mother, but I never got around to it (dumb, I know).
Now my relationship with her is actually better than it's been for years, so I didn't think I needed to go anymore. But maybe this is actually a good time to go. THings are good, but this has come up, and just because things are good doesn't mean there is not a whole lot of shit to process.
posted by saturn~jupiter at 7:59 AM on April 22, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think I would benefit from talking to a professional therapist about this. I didn't realise it would be such a goldmine of revealing thoughts and emotions. I used to think constantly about seeing a therapist to talk about my relationship with my mother, but I never got around to it (dumb, I know)
That's great, I think a therapist for you is a great suggestion.
posted by sweetkid at 8:01 AM on April 22, 2013
That's great, I think a therapist for you is a great suggestion.
posted by sweetkid at 8:01 AM on April 22, 2013
THings are good, but this has come up, and just because things are good doesn't mean there is not a whole lot of shit to process.
Or, that things can get better. Envision the ideal relationship you would have with your mother and act in the manner that will make that a reality.
Treat people how you wish to be treated is extremely significant here. But also, you are actively showing your mother the affection you like to receive by encouraging that affection with actions. She will start to open up if you remind her you are her daughter and will always love her. Vocalizing your feelings might be something she could be receptive to as well. It's nice to hear it every once in a while.
I personally thought the entire time it was her who was emotionally apprehensive towards me, until I realized, maybe I was keeping her at arm's length through my actions to avoid the negative emotions.
posted by lunastellasol at 8:01 AM on April 22, 2013
Or, that things can get better. Envision the ideal relationship you would have with your mother and act in the manner that will make that a reality.
Treat people how you wish to be treated is extremely significant here. But also, you are actively showing your mother the affection you like to receive by encouraging that affection with actions. She will start to open up if you remind her you are her daughter and will always love her. Vocalizing your feelings might be something she could be receptive to as well. It's nice to hear it every once in a while.
I personally thought the entire time it was her who was emotionally apprehensive towards me, until I realized, maybe I was keeping her at arm's length through my actions to avoid the negative emotions.
posted by lunastellasol at 8:01 AM on April 22, 2013
First of all, I agree with everyone who wrote that your daughter should be respected in her decision of with whom she decides to be physically affectionate. I think we told our kids: 'It would be nice to say hello / shake hands with X / whatever, but you can decide what you want to do.'
Second, I think that little kids have very very little power. If a bunch of adults are concerned with whom a 2 year is affectionate then they are granting said 2 year old an incredible amount of power. I guarantee that if you give your daughter this much power she will use in ways in which you can not even imagine now.
Third, you write that this pains you very much. I think kids are geniuses at acting out at exactly the points that are painful for their parents. Currently I can think of a couple of examples -
- it is exactly the daughter of the single mom we know struggling to make ends meet who complains after going to carnival that all the other kids got more money than her. Of course this isn't true, but this is what gets at her mother.
- it is exactly the daughter of the mother who wants family harmony above all who throws the board games on the floor during family game time.
So, let your daughter be who she is. You can probably only change this by letting go.
posted by jazh at 8:06 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Second, I think that little kids have very very little power. If a bunch of adults are concerned with whom a 2 year is affectionate then they are granting said 2 year old an incredible amount of power. I guarantee that if you give your daughter this much power she will use in ways in which you can not even imagine now.
Third, you write that this pains you very much. I think kids are geniuses at acting out at exactly the points that are painful for their parents. Currently I can think of a couple of examples -
- it is exactly the daughter of the single mom we know struggling to make ends meet who complains after going to carnival that all the other kids got more money than her. Of course this isn't true, but this is what gets at her mother.
- it is exactly the daughter of the mother who wants family harmony above all who throws the board games on the floor during family game time.
So, let your daughter be who she is. You can probably only change this by letting go.
posted by jazh at 8:06 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
You know, if they always tell you that she was fine with them, maybe it's just that that she knows when she sees your mom and dad it means that you are probably going to leave like you do every Friday and she's upset about that. That would be normal toddler behavior. Maybe it has nothing to do with your mom's personality. Is she in daycare or does she have other regular babysitters? Have you tried spying discreetly a few minutes after you "leave" to see if things actually get better post-transition?
posted by steinwald at 8:14 AM on April 22, 2013
posted by steinwald at 8:14 AM on April 22, 2013
I've for years felt guilty about not being able to give my mum enough love, or allow her to love me enough...
As her daughter, her child, you were not and are not responsible for being good enough to love. NEVER is a child responsible for their parent's ability to love or show love. You WERE able to love, you DID allow your mother to love you. You were a CHILD; it was her job to make it safe for YOU to express yourself, not the other way around.
Now you are an adult and you are responsible for your feelings and for making your daughter feel safe enough to express hers honestly. You are STILL NOT RESPONSIBLE for your mother. EVER.
posted by headnsouth at 8:15 AM on April 22, 2013 [18 favorites]
As her daughter, her child, you were not and are not responsible for being good enough to love. NEVER is a child responsible for their parent's ability to love or show love. You WERE able to love, you DID allow your mother to love you. You were a CHILD; it was her job to make it safe for YOU to express yourself, not the other way around.
Now you are an adult and you are responsible for your feelings and for making your daughter feel safe enough to express hers honestly. You are STILL NOT RESPONSIBLE for your mother. EVER.
posted by headnsouth at 8:15 AM on April 22, 2013 [18 favorites]
I was horribly afraid of an aunt who absolutely doted on me when I was a preschooler. To this day I'm not sure why. I grew out of it.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:16 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:16 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
I went through phases where I preferred one grandparent over the other to the point as a toddler/small child I didn't want anything to do with one of my grandparents.
Looking back there was no real reason for it and I later developed a good relationship with that grandparent. Seriously I can't come up with anything. I just didn't like them. So just another viewpoint that sometimes kids are weird and there isn't necessarily anything deep and messed up under the surface that needs to be uncovered. I wouldn't force it, she'll probably come around eventually.
posted by whoaali at 8:23 AM on April 22, 2013
Looking back there was no real reason for it and I later developed a good relationship with that grandparent. Seriously I can't come up with anything. I just didn't like them. So just another viewpoint that sometimes kids are weird and there isn't necessarily anything deep and messed up under the surface that needs to be uncovered. I wouldn't force it, she'll probably come around eventually.
posted by whoaali at 8:23 AM on April 22, 2013
I'm glad to hear you're getting therapy!
Kids are so, so perceptive. I also have complicated feelings around my mother, and my daughter also doesn't like being around her much, despite my mother being very affectionate. Kids realize who you like and don't like, and they are more loyal than most adults can even conceive of. They will not like people who they perceive to be mean to you or who may have been mean to you in the past. If you've ever discussed your childhood in earshot of your daughter, that may have been enough.
posted by corb at 8:40 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Kids are so, so perceptive. I also have complicated feelings around my mother, and my daughter also doesn't like being around her much, despite my mother being very affectionate. Kids realize who you like and don't like, and they are more loyal than most adults can even conceive of. They will not like people who they perceive to be mean to you or who may have been mean to you in the past. If you've ever discussed your childhood in earshot of your daughter, that may have been enough.
posted by corb at 8:40 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Have you asked your daughter?
I know it might seem weird, and you will probably get a bunch of random stuff, but it could also come with bits and pieces that might be useful.
Another thing that came to mind for me is that many little ones of my acquaintance are cooler toward the adults responsible for their care in the absence of their mother. It seems really normal to me.
Glad you're going to get some counseling to work through all of those complex thoughts in there.
posted by batmonkey at 8:47 AM on April 22, 2013
I know it might seem weird, and you will probably get a bunch of random stuff, but it could also come with bits and pieces that might be useful.
Another thing that came to mind for me is that many little ones of my acquaintance are cooler toward the adults responsible for their care in the absence of their mother. It seems really normal to me.
Glad you're going to get some counseling to work through all of those complex thoughts in there.
posted by batmonkey at 8:47 AM on April 22, 2013
My kids greatly preferred my aunt (their great-aunt) over my mother. My mother tried hard to be the smiley, involved, warm loving granny, but she wasn't a great actress and my kids figured it out. Looking back on my childhood, I say I was raised by people who were raised by wolves. Don't force your daughter to do anything. Granny will get over it. Possibly your daughter feel more comfortable with Granny when she's older, but I wouldn't push her into something now. She's two.
posted by Ideefixe at 8:49 AM on April 22, 2013
posted by Ideefixe at 8:49 AM on April 22, 2013
Sorry, I haven't read everything.
I think the advice about letting go, letting it be, and not trying to force it, is good. The thing is, whenever I say "give grandma a hug" and my daughter resists, my mum is always very gracious about it and says "another time" or "that's okay, she doesn't have to." My mum never forces it.
I think you need to let it go, too. Don't suggest she be demonstrative with your mom. Let your daughter lead completely. And maybe talk, over the phone, or separately from your daughter with your mum so that she doesn't overhear, that you're going to just ease up on that stuff a bit to let things develop naturally.
I think she is also old enough to start learning alternate ways of physically greeting people -- there's the "high five," the "fist bump," and the good old "hand shake" paired with a "nice to see you!" You can teach your daughter that a handshake is how grownups greet each other and they say, "Nice to see you!" Adults will be charmed by this and it's a safer way for your daughter to express physical affection without feeling overly uncomfortable.
You can also come up with some games that are special mum/granddaughter games -- like tea party! Or, dress up bears! Or...cooking in the kitchen! That will allow her to develop her own space with grandma.
My daughter is rather in awe of my older brother. She's fascinated by him but will run and hide whenever he comes over. Then she talks about him for days. He's really bummed out that she doesn't want to hug him and seems to avoid him but she will give him a fist bump (while shyly clinging to me). He's very tall and thin and bald(!) with a big, booming voice. He's also not been around little kids for a very long time so I think he's a little stilted and not on their plane. It's okay. Just important not to push it or make a big deal about it.
Talk to your mom about it and just stress that you need to allow her to find her way without a lot of pressure and that you're probably more stressed about it than your mom is and you should apologize for adding pressure. Then just sit back and try very hard to relax.
posted by amanda at 8:54 AM on April 22, 2013
I think the advice about letting go, letting it be, and not trying to force it, is good. The thing is, whenever I say "give grandma a hug" and my daughter resists, my mum is always very gracious about it and says "another time" or "that's okay, she doesn't have to." My mum never forces it.
I think you need to let it go, too. Don't suggest she be demonstrative with your mom. Let your daughter lead completely. And maybe talk, over the phone, or separately from your daughter with your mum so that she doesn't overhear, that you're going to just ease up on that stuff a bit to let things develop naturally.
I think she is also old enough to start learning alternate ways of physically greeting people -- there's the "high five," the "fist bump," and the good old "hand shake" paired with a "nice to see you!" You can teach your daughter that a handshake is how grownups greet each other and they say, "Nice to see you!" Adults will be charmed by this and it's a safer way for your daughter to express physical affection without feeling overly uncomfortable.
You can also come up with some games that are special mum/granddaughter games -- like tea party! Or, dress up bears! Or...cooking in the kitchen! That will allow her to develop her own space with grandma.
My daughter is rather in awe of my older brother. She's fascinated by him but will run and hide whenever he comes over. Then she talks about him for days. He's really bummed out that she doesn't want to hug him and seems to avoid him but she will give him a fist bump (while shyly clinging to me). He's very tall and thin and bald(!) with a big, booming voice. He's also not been around little kids for a very long time so I think he's a little stilted and not on their plane. It's okay. Just important not to push it or make a big deal about it.
Talk to your mom about it and just stress that you need to allow her to find her way without a lot of pressure and that you're probably more stressed about it than your mom is and you should apologize for adding pressure. Then just sit back and try very hard to relax.
posted by amanda at 8:54 AM on April 22, 2013
Two year olds can be like cats; they just decide "nope" to people and that's it. Even if every other two year old liked that person, one would still say "nope."
My kid has a bearded daddy so was never afraid of them, but many other kids were afraid of my husband because he was super tall + beard. And he is extremely gentle. But how would they know?
More embarrassingly, my kid was deathly afraid of dark-skinned people for a little while at that age. He'd never met any before. It was horrible and made us feel like we were raising a mini-racist. But then one day he started playing with a dark-skinned kid in his class, and now it's never a problem.
Unlike cats, kids grow out of it and figure out how to relate to people who are (by their lights) "different." If your mom keeps modeling love and affection to her, sooner or later, she'll come around.
posted by emjaybee at 9:03 AM on April 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
My kid has a bearded daddy so was never afraid of them, but many other kids were afraid of my husband because he was super tall + beard. And he is extremely gentle. But how would they know?
More embarrassingly, my kid was deathly afraid of dark-skinned people for a little while at that age. He'd never met any before. It was horrible and made us feel like we were raising a mini-racist. But then one day he started playing with a dark-skinned kid in his class, and now it's never a problem.
Unlike cats, kids grow out of it and figure out how to relate to people who are (by their lights) "different." If your mom keeps modeling love and affection to her, sooner or later, she'll come around.
posted by emjaybee at 9:03 AM on April 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
also - my mum doesn't look weird or unusual or have any weird character traits or mannerisms.
To you. This is really important - your mom doesn't seem weird to you. But there's a reason she does to your daughter; it's just that your daughter isn't at a stage where she can communicate what, exactly. And your kid is still really brand-new at life and interpreting the world, so a whole lot of things that are not at all weird or scary or unpleasant to someone with more time on the track, so to speak, are going to be complete tangles of WTF??!? to someone who hasn't been around as long. Just keep reminding yourself (and your mom, in a nice way of course, and only if she seems to need reminding) that two-year-olds are A) weird, like cats and B) lack experience in interpreting and communicating experience.
posted by rtha at 9:21 AM on April 22, 2013
To you. This is really important - your mom doesn't seem weird to you. But there's a reason she does to your daughter; it's just that your daughter isn't at a stage where she can communicate what, exactly. And your kid is still really brand-new at life and interpreting the world, so a whole lot of things that are not at all weird or scary or unpleasant to someone with more time on the track, so to speak, are going to be complete tangles of WTF??!? to someone who hasn't been around as long. Just keep reminding yourself (and your mom, in a nice way of course, and only if she seems to need reminding) that two-year-olds are A) weird, like cats and B) lack experience in interpreting and communicating experience.
posted by rtha at 9:21 AM on April 22, 2013
Kids are weird. She'll get over it. Stop obsessing about it, and especially stop obsessing about it with her.
posted by empath at 9:31 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by empath at 9:31 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I was about the same age as your daughter, I started to develop a distaste for being touched that has stuck with me to this day. It's not a Big Thing, I just don't prefer it. Of course, this is an unfortunate preference for little kids because everyone seems to want to touch/hug/kiss/coddle children.
My father handled this by teaching me how to curtsey and bow, and let me choose which one I wanted to do when I greeted or bid farewell to someone.* This simultaneously solved a couple of issues:
1) People generally don't hug or touch a person who is in the process of curtseying or bowing. Traditionally, they are forms of respect that work in lieu of physical contact.
2) People generally think that a child curtseying or bowing is the cutest damn thing ever, so it provides the adult with that "hit" of emotional joy that they crave, without exposing the child to unwanted contact.
Obviously, my father had to explain this to my relatives so that they understood that this might be a permanent solution, and that they may never get to touch me: "little Shou doesn't like to be touched, so we're trying to teach her other ways of showing respect and affection that don't make her feel so uncomfortable."
*There is nothing better than seeing a grizzled old Marine teach his toddler how to curtsey. I still vividly remember his lessons. It's a very happy memory.
posted by Shouraku at 9:47 AM on April 22, 2013 [30 favorites]
My father handled this by teaching me how to curtsey and bow, and let me choose which one I wanted to do when I greeted or bid farewell to someone.* This simultaneously solved a couple of issues:
1) People generally don't hug or touch a person who is in the process of curtseying or bowing. Traditionally, they are forms of respect that work in lieu of physical contact.
2) People generally think that a child curtseying or bowing is the cutest damn thing ever, so it provides the adult with that "hit" of emotional joy that they crave, without exposing the child to unwanted contact.
Obviously, my father had to explain this to my relatives so that they understood that this might be a permanent solution, and that they may never get to touch me: "little Shou doesn't like to be touched, so we're trying to teach her other ways of showing respect and affection that don't make her feel so uncomfortable."
*There is nothing better than seeing a grizzled old Marine teach his toddler how to curtsey. I still vividly remember his lessons. It's a very happy memory.
posted by Shouraku at 9:47 AM on April 22, 2013 [30 favorites]
I was too little at the time to have any memory of it myself, but my mother tells me that when I was about that age I flatly refused to ever say goodbye to my grandparents. It upset them a great deal, and they were frequently angry about why I was so rude and didn't love them enough. Eventually my mother asked me directly why I wouldn't say goodbye. With perfect child-logic, I'd concluded that after people say goodbye, they leave, and I didn't want the visits to end because I was enjoying myself. So if I refused to say goodbye, then they couldn't leave.
Is it possible that something vaguely similar is going on?
posted by talitha_kumi at 10:12 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Is it possible that something vaguely similar is going on?
posted by talitha_kumi at 10:12 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I also didn't (and don't) like to be touched. Unfortunately, unlike Shouraka's parents mine dug in their heels and would demand I hug people. I have a lot of memories of hiding or arranging to be out of the house when relatives, who I otherwise cared for, were leaving so as to avoid the strange power struggle over my person that just made me grossly uncomfortable in ways I couldn't explain at the time. This continued until I moved out of the house by the way, as an adult I will hug certain relatives, but it's still something I have to steel myself for.
Whether your daughter is touch adverse, grandma adverse, or just having a power grab, none of those situations will be improved by demanding she be physically affectionate when she doesn't want to.
posted by Dynex at 10:21 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Whether your daughter is touch adverse, grandma adverse, or just having a power grab, none of those situations will be improved by demanding she be physically affectionate when she doesn't want to.
posted by Dynex at 10:21 AM on April 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
So many thoughts... nothing is simple!
Yes it is simple.
- Stop taking this so personally.
- Stop telling your daughter to "hug grandma."
You are making this non-issue and issue! It's weird and supremely unhelpful.
It's none of your business who your daughter likes. You can't convince your two year old to warm up to anyone they don't want to, same as I can't convince my two year old son.
This is not a reflection on you.
posted by jbenben at 10:24 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes it is simple.
- Stop taking this so personally.
- Stop telling your daughter to "hug grandma."
You are making this non-issue and issue! It's weird and supremely unhelpful.
It's none of your business who your daughter likes. You can't convince your two year old to warm up to anyone they don't want to, same as I can't convince my two year old son.
This is not a reflection on you.
posted by jbenben at 10:24 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I assume that you've ruled out the possibility that child abuse is taking place on Fridays when your daughter is alone with her? Because when a grown-up caregiver is acting uncharacteristically loving toward a child in public but the child seems uncharacteristically scared of that person, that sounds like a "child abuse" scenario to me.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 10:37 AM on April 22, 2013
posted by wolfdreams01 at 10:37 AM on April 22, 2013
I wonder if you're over thinking this since it's your mom and she's so close to you. Two year olds are strange. The daughter of a family friend was terrified of my dad from about 1.5 to 2 years of age. She would see him and just start sobbing. No one could figure out why and to this day we have no idea why she was so scared of him. Now, she just loves him and when we go over to their house, she runs up to my dad first and starts talking her head off.
My dad wasn't pushy with our friends' daughter. He just let her be and would sometimes smile or make a joke when she seemed happy.
Since we're just family friends, there were no strong emotional issues regarding their, so everyone was content to let it be.
posted by parakeetdog at 10:47 AM on April 22, 2013
My dad wasn't pushy with our friends' daughter. He just let her be and would sometimes smile or make a joke when she seemed happy.
Since we're just family friends, there were no strong emotional issues regarding their, so everyone was content to let it be.
posted by parakeetdog at 10:47 AM on April 22, 2013
she associated them with being taken away from Mama
This was very much a part of the dynamic I mentioned above with my own grandmother when I was little.
posted by Sara C. at 10:59 AM on April 22, 2013
This was very much a part of the dynamic I mentioned above with my own grandmother when I was little.
posted by Sara C. at 10:59 AM on April 22, 2013
One of my several nephews started to dislike me quite a lot when he was about a year old -- he wouldn't even eat if I was in the same room with him. His parents' embarrassment and their efforts to get him to "be nice" seemed to make things worse. I suggested to them that we try an experiment: none of us should make any comments about how he and I got along, and nobody should push him to hug me, show me his toys, etc. Now and then I'd make a positive yet neutral comment to him such as "I like Cheerios" or "Your red car is very fast." He wouldn't answer, but at least I was showing him I noticed him and was willing to communicate.
Things started to change after a while; I'm sure that a lot of it was because he just got older. But I also think that he learned to relax around me because there was no pressure for him to act in a certain way. By the age of three he was interacting with me of his own accord, and hugging me hello and goodbye now and then. But really, a wave or blowing a kiss is not too shabby! He's four now and we're friends, but he still doesn't act excited to see me the way he does with several other relatives. His parents are still uncomfortable about it, but I'm happy just letting him be.
I suggest that you not ask your child to hug grandma, and that your mother not ask her for attention or affection. See how that goes for a while. Meanwhile, you'll be modeling the kind of behavior you'd like your daughter to learn: affection, kindness, respect, and communication.
posted by wryly at 11:07 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Things started to change after a while; I'm sure that a lot of it was because he just got older. But I also think that he learned to relax around me because there was no pressure for him to act in a certain way. By the age of three he was interacting with me of his own accord, and hugging me hello and goodbye now and then. But really, a wave or blowing a kiss is not too shabby! He's four now and we're friends, but he still doesn't act excited to see me the way he does with several other relatives. His parents are still uncomfortable about it, but I'm happy just letting him be.
I suggest that you not ask your child to hug grandma, and that your mother not ask her for attention or affection. See how that goes for a while. Meanwhile, you'll be modeling the kind of behavior you'd like your daughter to learn: affection, kindness, respect, and communication.
posted by wryly at 11:07 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
The way I see things like this, the problem is not your daughter, the problem is your mother. You can't make your daughter like your mother more, but you could encourage your mother to find ways to be more appealing and interesting to your daughter. I say might because I never have a lot of confidence in people changing the very fundamental things about themselves that prevent them from clicking with certain other people. And in fact a lot of people don't even want to try to make such changes. However, it's possible that as your daughter grows and changes, there might be things that click that are not clicking now.
posted by Dansaman at 11:45 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Dansaman at 11:45 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would like to second what headnsouth said. And, somewhat relatedly, urge you not to say/think things like "my daughter just kind of shuts her out" in a way that puts your daughter in the wrong. Your daughter is two, it is on the adults in her life to make her feel comfortable, thinking accusatory things like "she shuts her out" will cause problems.
I have a close relative who says that I shut them out when I was a kid and it's quite disturbing. It is not a kid's job to make adults feel comfortable; it is the adults' job to create situations where kids feel comfortable and can be open and to troubleshoot when that is not happening successfully.
posted by needs more cowbell at 12:44 PM on April 22, 2013 [9 favorites]
I have a close relative who says that I shut them out when I was a kid and it's quite disturbing. It is not a kid's job to make adults feel comfortable; it is the adults' job to create situations where kids feel comfortable and can be open and to troubleshoot when that is not happening successfully.
posted by needs more cowbell at 12:44 PM on April 22, 2013 [9 favorites]
Seconding the folks who are comparing kids to cats! In both cases, the best thing is to take it cool, and let the kid, or the cat, come to you: grabbing either one, trying to force hugs or intimacy, will just bring out their fighting to get away.
I do a little Santa Claus-ing every year, and this is one of the things I've learned: just sit quietly, and let them come to you. There'll always be kids who are shy or fearful, but if you let them come to you in their own time --- no rushing, no hassle or verbal shoving --- everything works out fine.
Your daughter is only two: there's lots of time for her and your mother to get to know each other.
posted by easily confused at 5:41 PM on April 22, 2013
I do a little Santa Claus-ing every year, and this is one of the things I've learned: just sit quietly, and let them come to you. There'll always be kids who are shy or fearful, but if you let them come to you in their own time --- no rushing, no hassle or verbal shoving --- everything works out fine.
Your daughter is only two: there's lots of time for her and your mother to get to know each other.
posted by easily confused at 5:41 PM on April 22, 2013
One of my little granddaughters does this to me whenever her mom (my daughter) or her other grandmother is around. When it is just us two, we snuggle, read books, talk, and have a good time playing together. In fact, we can be sitting together and mom comes in the room and she wants nothing else to do with me. Sometimes I think it has more to do with not wanting to make her mom or her other grandmother jealous, so there's that too. Let them have time to build their own relationship. It will be okay.
posted by tamitang at 9:24 PM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tamitang at 9:24 PM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
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You're saying here that, other than with your daughter, your mother does not exhibit these traits. Although your daughter is too young to articulate why she responds as she does, I suspect she's not too young to pick up on your mother's general affect and demeanor and is wanting to avoid her because of this (accurate) perception of who your mother is.
I also wonder how your mother is when you leave your daughter with her every Friday.
Don't blame your daughter for this, she's only being perceptive and seeking comfortable situations.
Were I in your position, I would stop leaving her on Fridays and make sure you're present to observe whenever your daughter is with your mother, I suspect you'll eventually figure out what your mother is doing/not doing that makes your daughter uncomfortable, at that point you can begin work on helping your mother change.
posted by HuronBob at 7:13 AM on April 22, 2013 [26 favorites]