Should I keep messaging her?

April 15, 2013 7:24 PM

I'm on OkCupd, and I've been chatting with someone who seems pretty cool and cute. We made plans to meet on Sunday, but she said she was busy but wanted to meet up later. I had a free ticket to a movie yesterday, so I asked if she wanted to come out. Again, busy, so I said "Hey, I'm free on Thursday and Sunday if you want to meet, but if not it's cool". I got a message back saying "I did want to, just got busy. Not into the attitude though so lets leave it there." The logical thing is just to leave it at that and not pursue her any more, but part of me wants to try and figure out if I can fix my mistake and at least meet up for a coffee to see if there's any chemistry there. Is it possible?
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants to Human Relations (45 answers total)

Best answer: You can't win this. Your first instinct is right, let it go.
posted by bswinburn at 7:27 PM on April 15, 2013 [46 favorites]

I guess you could try, but that's a pretty weird response on her part. I'd be inclined to count your blessings and move on.
posted by modernnomad at 7:27 PM on April 15, 2013 [19 favorites]

I would say something like, "Sorry, really didn't mean to offend. I'd still like to meet up though -- when is good for you?"

Put the ball explicitly in her court, as it seems that she is way busier than you. If she wants to make it happen, she will.
posted by telegraph at 7:27 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]

What? What "attitude" is she referring to?
Sounds like she's not interested . Move on.
posted by KogeLiz at 7:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [31 favorites]

Do you want to win over someone like this? Life is short. Find someone who gets your social norms.
posted by quodlibet at 7:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]

She already said no. Respect her decision.
posted by Sequence at 7:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [11 favorites]

No. That's a pretty darn straight up "negative", right there.
posted by StrikeTheViol at 7:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]

She gave you a gift. She exposed her crazy and/or lack of sincere interest before you wasted any real time on her. Be grateful and move on.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [55 favorites]

'What attitude', indeed?! The only attitude here is hers.

She sounds rude, frankly. I wouldn't bother. You'll forget about her as soon as you meet the next, nicer person.
posted by Salamander at 7:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [11 favorites]

Yeah, she sounds super rude. Let it go--there's nothing here to fix, since you didn't break a damn thing.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]

Yeah, just let it go.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:40 PM on April 15, 2013

Best answer: Potential drama queen or not, once somebody puts up a boundary, you respect them. It sounds like - and I'm only using what you gave me - she wasn't that into you, agreed to meet, changed her mind, and then tried putting it off until she finally got annoyed enough to nip it in the bud. Whether she did that with integrity doesn't matter in the long run because a) y'all won't be seeing each other and b) this person is now just somebody that you used to know (on the internet).

"Not into the attitude though so lets leave it there."

That right there was a "no." Delivery of said "no" doesn't determine how re-negotiable it is. It's probably not that she's not sure of her feelings; and even if she wasn't, I'd still be in the corner saying "dude this is the part where you give her the space to think things out without your influence." And in this instance, she's already decided that she doesn't care to see if there's chemistry. Romance stories (and more than enough "how we got married" stories) hinge on the part where the guy - by force, by charm, by basically being all up in the woman's face, space or place - re-negotiates a woman's no. And it sounds sweet kinda, except when you consider the part where ultimately, that part of you that's like "message her again!" believes that "no" isn't good enough to honor.

Don't listen to that.

You'll be okay. You'll find someone with whom the conversational spark will light up a room, who will say things like "actually I'm hella busy this week, but let's try MM/DD?" and then you'll go on a coffee date and things will be Just Fine.

As for this lady? Ship's sailed. And them's the breaks.
posted by Ashen at 7:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [20 favorites]

If she gets that offended in your first few times messaging and trying to arrange a meetup, then there will be no luck in communicating in any relationship with her.
posted by Crystalinne at 7:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]

You did nothing wrong. Depending on how she worded her "I'm busy" notes, she might have done nothing wrong either. It's not a fit, move on. There won't be any chemistry if you meet, because you won't meet, because continuing to contact her will set off her creep-o-meter.
posted by jeather at 7:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]

Step away from the message window, son. She's given you all the answers you need and they're all "nope."

I think she might have been trying to let you down gentle, as it were. She thought a couple of busy-vague-maybe-laters would dissuade you and you'd move on. When they didn't, she got annoyed and decided to manufacture offense so as to justify (to herself) turning you down cold.

It's passive-aggressive and more than a little rude, but pretty common. People really seem to think they need to have concrete, ironclad, stands-up-in-court reasons to not go on a date with someone.
posted by like_a_friend at 7:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]

You didn't make a mistake, she's just brushing you off/ a troll.
posted by windykites at 7:58 PM on April 15, 2013

She's probably genuinely busy and maybe felt like you didn't believe her that she was (I have had that happen -- I often over-schedule myself). That doesn't make you or her wrong; it just means you're not meant for each other.

I'm not someone who necessarily believes "if someone likes you, they'll make time" because some of us are overly scheduled or we have to make sacrifices/exceptions and that can be tough to do. I think she probably felt like you were pushing it a bit hard and she wanted the freedom to reschedule and I understand that. These things happen; you're just not in the same place. That's cool. Let it go.
posted by darksong at 7:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]

Best answer: For what it's worth, your behaviour comes across as pushy to me. You were going to do something on Sunday, she says she's busy. You get a free ticket for a movie yesterday (so that's Monday, one day later) and ask her out again, and she re-iterates she's busy. You reply asking her out yet again for later in the week. When somebody tells you they're busy, and you try three times in two days to get them to commit to a date? That's just too much.

Who knows if it would've made a difference, but if I were this girl, I would've appreciated if your Monday response was something like, "No worries, I know how life can get! I'd still like to get together sometime, so hit me up when you have a free afternoon?"

But I really dislike feeling pushed by people, especially people I don't know.
posted by Georgina at 8:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [37 favorites]

Crystalinne hit the nail on the head. Even assuming you could change her mind, would you really want to? If she's being this negative over nothing, at the very earliest stages of dating, what's she going to be like down the road if you get into a serious relationship? I mean, if you're not interested in a relationship, then disregard this comment. But if you're even potentially open to it, your goal is not just to get coffee with someone cute — the goal should be to find someone with whom you can see yourself weathering unforeseen storms in the future. You're not likely to be able to do that with someone who finds a way to turn even the most benign conversations into drama.
posted by John Cohen at 8:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]

She was looking for an out where she wouldn't be the bad guy and so she manufactured a reason to blow you off. It's a shitty thing to do, but she is no longer interested so no point in pursuing it any longer.
posted by whoaali at 8:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]

I don't know if you're leaving something out, but...
One person's "over-eager-beaver" is another person's "interested." Whether she was never interested or just isn't intersted any longer doesn't really matter. She isn't interested now. She said so. Listen to her.
posted by sm1tten at 8:17 PM on April 15, 2013

To me, you were both pushy and overly available, so I don't blame her for putting on the brakes, but the way she did it was awkward.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 8:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]

Best answer: In the future - if someone cancels, let them propose the reschedule. If she doesn't immediately (or within a few days) propose another time to meet, she doesn't want to meet.
posted by amaire at 8:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [12 favorites]

part of me wants to try and figure out if I can fix my mistake

She cancelled on you, then when presented with the choice of two other nights, described that as "attitude?"

The only mistake would be pursuing this inconsiderate person any further.
posted by zippy at 8:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]

Best answer: If someone cancels on me, I usually don't try again for a week. Three times in one week comes across as too needy to me.
posted by empath at 8:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]

To me, you were both pushy and overly available

Dude, see this is the problem. If you're not pushy and overly available, you're not trying hard enough. The important lesson is don't second guess yourself. Just be you. She's the one that's missing out. So what's the problem here? Her loss, not yours.

The only contact I would consider is writing her back and saying, "Not sure what you are referring to, I was just excited to set something up. Best, CiS" That's it. Don't apologize, and don't offer to set anything else up. And just give it to the Universe. (You also sound like you might be new to online dating. Don't worry, you'll shake off that desire to perform overtures soon enough.)
posted by phaedon at 8:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]

Best answer: DirtyOldTown posted "She gave you a gift. She exposed her crazy and/or lack of sincere interest before you wasted any real time on her. Be grateful and move on."

Just to note for future reference - a woman is not crazy if she rejects you. The way she rejected you is slightly rude for saying you had "attitude" (you did not, you were just being pushy) but that does not make her crazy. Please note this distinction.
posted by cristinacristinacristina at 8:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [31 favorites]

Leave this one alone. She's cranky because she was giving you the Non-Obvious Obvious Signals Of Disinterest and is angry about having to communicate in plain English.
posted by rhythm and booze at 9:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]

Response by poster: Dude, see this is the problem. If you're not pushy and overly available, you're not trying hard enough. The important lesson is don't second guess yourself. Just be you. She's the one that's missing out. So what's the problem here? Her loss, not yours.

No, I was being pushy and over-eager, especially since I haven't been getting many responses from OkCupid lately. I feel pretty embarrassed about it now, since I hate creeping people out and getting needy. I will, of course, not message back.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 9:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]

i think you could tell her it's up to her find a time to meet, and that if she's trying to reject you she's not doing it in a cool way. you will probably never meet her, but you could at least do her the favor of letting her know that you can see past her passive-agressive bullshit, and that it doesn't help her, and that the more polite thing to do is to be direct (even though it may make her a little uncomfortable to face the emotional responsibilities of her actions like an adult).
posted by cupcake1337 at 9:09 PM on April 15, 2013

Just to note for future reference - a woman is not crazy if she rejects you. The way she rejected you is slightly rude for saying you had "attitude" (you did not, you were just being pushy) but that does not make her crazy. Please note this distinction.

This is entirely true.

However, I most emphatically was not saying the woman was crazy for rejecting him. I was saying she might be crazy for the degree of offense she took for a mostly innocuous misstep and the snotty, insulting way she blew him off. Please note that distinction.

So much of the time, we get strung along in early dating, getting our hopes up for someone who was never that into us to begin with. Or worse yet, we waste weeks or months on a potential someone before they show us how crazy or difficult they are. This woman is either a) not that into him; b) weirdly hostile/a little nuts; or c) both. I maintain that the OP dodged a bullet by finding this out early.

This may be an acerbic way to look for a silver lining, but that's all I was saying.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [18 favorites]

Nthing the "sounds like you're better off without this fish, throw her back" remarks. But when someone says they are "busy" and then doesn't go through their calendar and find when they are next free to do something, that's code for "go away and take the hint." She has to put effort in too, you know?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]

you will probably never meet her, but you could at least do her the favor of letting her know that you can see past her passive-agressive bullshit

Please don't do this. You don't need to teach this woman a lesson. She has given you the brush-off multiple times and it is really up to you to take a lesson from that.

You can call it passive-aggressive bullshit if you want, but it's really an unspoken rule of dating that you would do well to observe (i.e. "if someone says they are busy more than once, don't keep pestering them for a date"). These kinds of rules serve a purpose in helping you both save face and avoid too many hurt feelings.

If you barge in with some nonsense about being able to see through her "bullshit", you will come across as a complete creep who can't read glaringly obvious social cues.
posted by RubyScarlet at 10:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]

Oh hell yes to everything RubyScarlet just said.

You're entitled to a modicum of sour grapes when someone you were on the line with tosses you aside in such an unkind manner, but that's it. You'd really be overstepping all kinds of lines, doing yourself no good whatsoever, and generally just riding the express train to Creeptown if you were to push back or try to give her any shit about how she treated you. She was a person on the internet who it turns out didn't like you. Move along and find someone who does.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: you will probably never meet her, but you could at least do her the favor of letting her know that you can see past her passive-agressive bullshit, and that it doesn't help her, and that the more polite thing to do is to be direct (even though it may make her a little uncomfortable to face the emotional responsibilities of her actions like an adult).

Yeah no. Aside from what everyone else said, she lives in my area, and if we do eventually run into each other IRL I don't want to poison things any more.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 1:37 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Maybe you need to ask her out for a week ahead instead of 1-3 days before. You sounded pushy to me. She can't just suddenly drop everything because you have a free movie ticket all of a sudden. It's insulting. Just be patient and an adult, rather than a needy child.
posted by discopolo at 3:03 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Look, you had plans and she broke them. She added that she wanted to meet up "later".

At that point it was up to her to make plans with you.

That she did not follow up is rude, but the fact that it was an online dating scenario, where you had not met in person before, makes it the one setting where this kind of rudeness is excusable. It's an encoded form of rejection when someone doesn't want to say "no" directly. The alternative would have been to say "I've changed my mind," and few people will say something like that in any setting, even if they should.

So normally I would be all over her with the DTMFA stick for treating you this way, but the fact you are Internet pre-daters who don't know each other and haven't met yet, changes everything.

It was not rude to get back to her one day later, per se, but she would have felt pressure. It's bad strategy to pressure your dates.

Then you did it again another day later. That really was pressure. So I can see where her remark about "attitude" came from, but she really should have said, "I've changed my mind, I don't think it's a good fit/good idea for us to meet" etc. Because that's what I would have said, even if I genuinely had been overtaken by events the first time.

(Oh, and as a matter of policy, when I make dates I keep them. I'm not into waffling about wasting other people's time. That really is rude.)

Anyway, for better strategy, next time let the date-breaker get back to you.

If you are so eager that you can't hold it in, at least wait three days before trying to reinitiate. At that point anything but a firm appointment with date, time, and place is a "no" and you don't pursue it any more.

The second approach doesn't break any boundaries, so it's "legitimate", but it's bad strategy. Don't put yourself in a one-down position.
posted by tel3path at 3:41 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Agreeing with those who have said no. Moving forward, the advice to be flexible about meeting up is *on the money.* Here's why:

Online dating is usually an experience of going through tons of duds before you find someone cool, right? Once you've been at it for a while you start to realize that even the promising first contacts are usually not going to be right for you, just on a compatibility level, so you learn to manage your expectations. That's why being too eager before meeting can be such a deal killer. It gives the impression that you aren't in touch with that fact... and therefore may be a weirdo. You might not be, but...you also might be.

Being a female on OKC can be so surreal that it can nearly put you off dating for good. Assume that any girl you message is being pushed by other men - getting repeated unwelcome messages, getting sad, desperate messages, getting downright WEIRD messages...the WHOLE GAMUT. If anything, after a while you're looking for reasons to eliminate people to avoid bad eggs. Here's a great illustration of how ridiculous it can get:

http://slacktory.com/2012/05/20-guys-try-to-bang-psycho-on-okcupid/

This is not an exaggeration. There's a whole bunch of weird dudes on this site hitting on anything they find, poisoning the water, so your goal should be to NOT DO ANYTHING THAT SEEMS LIKE IT COULD BE A RED FLAG early on. It's not personal...I'm sure you're great, but these girls are swimming with sharks and they are trying to get out of the water before something unpleasant goes down.

If the girl is truly awesome, she is likely leading a full and busy life. Getting that first date may take a little time to arrange because she's got it going on! Give lots of lead time, be cool about scheduling glitches and manage your expectations and eventually it will come together for you. Good luck!
posted by amycup at 5:52 AM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]

Hmm, for me (female, met two LTRs on a online dating site including Mr. Arnicae) I would write back and say,

"Sorry, didn't mean to be pushy, I was just really looking forward to meeting you. Is there a day next week that would work for coffee? "

THEN, I'd drop it. Your frequency did seem a little pushy, and for me, when I'm busy with stuff, I feel guilty and snappy when people push me about things and I feel guilty and inadequate that I'm not holding it all together. Yes, it does not bode well for a potential relationship that this has already happened before the first date, but I wouldn't write her off without one more response.

And, given what you mentioned on OKC - how about trying some other dating sites? While I hear people saying positive things about dating on OKC, I've heard much more positive things (and lower rates of craigslist-style oddballs) for other sites, excepting eHarmony.

Good luck, it can entirely work. FWIW, I dated a lot of guys (for a couple of dates each, and one guy for a year) because I was curious and interested in meeting new people with interesting backgrounds. Mr. Arnicae was being much more picky: I was literally the only person he met from our online dating site. Half a dozen years + together and counting.
posted by arnicae at 6:20 AM on April 16, 2013

Why are you fixating so much on this woman and her possible reasons for changing her mind? Serious question. You don't even know her.

Pickup artists, who have a grain of truth underneath all that bullshit somewhere, call this "oneitis". Critics say "oh what terrible people PUAs are, they have reduced the very concept of romantic love to a piece of jargon called 'oneitis', does their cynicism know no bounds" but what "oneitis" actually is, is putting all your eggs in one basket. It's getting infatuated with someone you don't really know at all, and pinning all your hopes on them long before you have any kind of real relationship with them or any evidence that you're remotely compatible. The idea being that until you know a person reasonably well you should not get very invested in her and you should keep playing the field.

To be frank with you, CIS, I would be thoroughly creeped out if I got three attempts to reschedule a date in three days. That right there is enough to change a woman's mind because a woman can't take a risk on any signs of instability or inappropriate response. But even without that, people change their minds for reasons having absolutely nothing to do with you. A butterfly flaps its wings in China, your date gets cancelled. And there's nothing to take personally here, because you don't actually know each other.

It is also kind of disconcerting that you are asking us what would have made her change her mind and whether she could have Googled something about you. I'm going to assume you're very new to Internet dating so don't understand how it works, but this is a glass-case example of how it doesn't work: you don't get oneitis for strangers, pressure them to meet up, or try to analyze why they changed their mind. And this is me saying this. Me, who does not let stuff go, me who will hunt down an answer to the ends of the earth, I'm saying let it go and you have more than enough answers here already.
posted by tel3path at 6:30 AM on April 16, 2013 [9 favorites]

She already said no. She doesn't want to date you, and there is no chemistry there and isn't going to be. So, no, you should not try to "fix" this situation with a girl you've never met who doesn't want to date you.

My view is that, yeah, you were too needy and she was already waffling, and that gave her the kick she needed to admit she wasn't into you (or met someone else). However, the "if you don't want to meet it's cool" was likely the "attitude" she reacted to or commented on. It's a passive-aggressive way of calling her out and applying pressure. If she had wanted to go out when she was less busy, I can see how that turned her off.

You're getting a lot of good advice here about how to be less needy, less hot in pursuit. Mull it over and absorb some lessons. But for now, all that matters is that this isn't salvageable with her.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:41 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

Btw, amycup is right. There are lot of weird guys on OKCupid who send pushy emails. For women, it's hard to figure out whether the guy has good intentions and is even worth wasting time and coffee over when you're getting new messages every single day from weirdos and non-weirdos alike.

You may not be a weirdo but she may be having to fend off a ton of guys who badger her repeatedly for last minute dates. And last minute dates are disrespectful---it feels like you're a placeholder. Making a date ahead of time is more respectful. That's why making a date a week in advance or on a Monday/Tuesday might be a better signal than, "I got this free ticket. I'm only asking because I have a free ticket." Or getting whiny/badgery/pest-y when she can't drop everything because her life is busier than yours.
posted by discopolo at 7:52 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

Move on. I'm with whoever above said to just be yourself. I'm lucky to not be in the dating scene, but in reading this thread, I think trying to apply one set of rules are for contacting this person (too much, needy creep!) or that person (you didn't call me, douchebag!) are kind of a waste of time. Everybody is different and has different expectations. Until you get to know a person and find out whether your expectations match, be nice, be yourself and you'll be fine.

This particular person is not interested in you, and you were right to ask here. Maybe try to learn a little something about the signals people send and move on.
posted by cnc at 10:15 AM on April 16, 2013

How rude of her!! I personally wouldn't let this go without sending her a huge "screw you then", but I'm not a very nice person.
posted by wats at 12:10 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

If I was in her place and you contacted me one final time, I would be rather creeped out. Up until now, you sound over eager, but contacting her against sounds creepy.
posted by parakeetdog at 2:12 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]