Help me save this relationship
April 12, 2013 6:27 PM Subscribe
How can I start, right now, to improve my relationship?
How can I start, right now, to improve my relationship?
We are both in our early/mid 20s and have been living together for several years. I love him very much, but things have been bad for quite a while now and we haven't slept in the same bed for a couple months. We fight daily, mostly quibbling and sometimes larger fights. I am out of work (I will be getting a job soon) so he pays the rent and is very busy with work and school.
He has never been great with chores but since things have gone south, he doesn't help at all. Is that okay since he pays the rent? That would actually be a relief because if so, I wouldn't mind doing everything without resentment.
Anyway, to give you an example of the dynamic, the night before last I wasn't feeling well, so I asked nicely if he could clean the litter before bed. He said yes, but then didn't. Last night I asked if he could do the dishes. He said yes, but then didn't. Last week I asked him for five days, every day, if he could take out the trash. He said yes, every time. And didn't, until, well, eventually he did and our kitchen had like 5 bags of trash piled. Everyday, I am a bitch at least once about him not helping, because being nice doesn't help, and being firm but neutral doesn't help. But being a bitch doesn't either.
I have been going out more than ever lately because I can't stand to be home. I go dancing (which I absolutely love), I go to the bar, I go to events. I don't drink though. People are actually nice to me and seem to like me, but this has served to make things worse between him and I because he knows I get hit on frequently, but doesn't believe that I do not reciprocate.
I have tried to have some intervention-type moments, but it leads nowhere. I try to tell him I want to fix things, but he just says, "No, you don't want to fix things, you just care about you." At which point I try to be loving, but it's just so frustrating. I mean, I do care about me, but also about him; a relationship is supposed to be mutually beneficial.
My birthday was a month ago, which was a fiasco. Things have been really, really hard for me financially, emotionally, professionally, etc. and I had been looking forward to my birthday for weeks. In light of the fact that I truly don't expect *anything* for Christmas, our anniversary, Valentine's Day, etc, I don't feel it is too demanding to want a nice birthday, probably because I've always had shitty, lonely ones growing up. He knows it's important to me and all I wanted was dinner at a restaurant and a nice day. Maybe a small gift, just to know I was thought about.
Well, he basically had nothing planned already, but the night before, I went out dancing by myself (he didn't want to come), got very drunk because I almost never drink, and came home very late having been dropped off by some kind strangers. Well this basically gave him an excuse to do nothing for my birthday and I spent the day alone and throwing up. I haven't had any alcohol since, in part not to upset him and also in part because I am such a light weight and the thought makes me queasy still. Is what I did wrong? I mean, if so, I can understand that and will let it go.
So as far as daily interactions, how should I behave? We are both at fault, for different reasons. I am definitely not a saint, but I want to try and break out of this horrible dynamic. So what steps can I take before throwing in the towel? If my post has come across one-sided, one way or another, please know that is probably because I just haven't been clear or thorough.
How can I start, right now, to improve my relationship?
We are both in our early/mid 20s and have been living together for several years. I love him very much, but things have been bad for quite a while now and we haven't slept in the same bed for a couple months. We fight daily, mostly quibbling and sometimes larger fights. I am out of work (I will be getting a job soon) so he pays the rent and is very busy with work and school.
He has never been great with chores but since things have gone south, he doesn't help at all. Is that okay since he pays the rent? That would actually be a relief because if so, I wouldn't mind doing everything without resentment.
Anyway, to give you an example of the dynamic, the night before last I wasn't feeling well, so I asked nicely if he could clean the litter before bed. He said yes, but then didn't. Last night I asked if he could do the dishes. He said yes, but then didn't. Last week I asked him for five days, every day, if he could take out the trash. He said yes, every time. And didn't, until, well, eventually he did and our kitchen had like 5 bags of trash piled. Everyday, I am a bitch at least once about him not helping, because being nice doesn't help, and being firm but neutral doesn't help. But being a bitch doesn't either.
I have been going out more than ever lately because I can't stand to be home. I go dancing (which I absolutely love), I go to the bar, I go to events. I don't drink though. People are actually nice to me and seem to like me, but this has served to make things worse between him and I because he knows I get hit on frequently, but doesn't believe that I do not reciprocate.
I have tried to have some intervention-type moments, but it leads nowhere. I try to tell him I want to fix things, but he just says, "No, you don't want to fix things, you just care about you." At which point I try to be loving, but it's just so frustrating. I mean, I do care about me, but also about him; a relationship is supposed to be mutually beneficial.
My birthday was a month ago, which was a fiasco. Things have been really, really hard for me financially, emotionally, professionally, etc. and I had been looking forward to my birthday for weeks. In light of the fact that I truly don't expect *anything* for Christmas, our anniversary, Valentine's Day, etc, I don't feel it is too demanding to want a nice birthday, probably because I've always had shitty, lonely ones growing up. He knows it's important to me and all I wanted was dinner at a restaurant and a nice day. Maybe a small gift, just to know I was thought about.
Well, he basically had nothing planned already, but the night before, I went out dancing by myself (he didn't want to come), got very drunk because I almost never drink, and came home very late having been dropped off by some kind strangers. Well this basically gave him an excuse to do nothing for my birthday and I spent the day alone and throwing up. I haven't had any alcohol since, in part not to upset him and also in part because I am such a light weight and the thought makes me queasy still. Is what I did wrong? I mean, if so, I can understand that and will let it go.
So as far as daily interactions, how should I behave? We are both at fault, for different reasons. I am definitely not a saint, but I want to try and break out of this horrible dynamic. So what steps can I take before throwing in the towel? If my post has come across one-sided, one way or another, please know that is probably because I just haven't been clear or thorough.
There is nothing left to save. Move on; save yourself.
posted by eenagy at 6:45 PM on April 12, 2013 [17 favorites]
posted by eenagy at 6:45 PM on April 12, 2013 [17 favorites]
Well this basically gave him an excuse to do nothing for my birthday
No, it didn't. You didn't do anything wrong.
Your boyfriend sounds very petty and immature.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 6:46 PM on April 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
No, it didn't. You didn't do anything wrong.
Your boyfriend sounds very petty and immature.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 6:46 PM on April 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
There isn't a single thing in what you wrote that indicates that you care for one another.
Why do you want to save this relationship instead of getting out and being happy alone?
posted by third word on a random page at 6:46 PM on April 12, 2013 [20 favorites]
Why do you want to save this relationship instead of getting out and being happy alone?
posted by third word on a random page at 6:46 PM on April 12, 2013 [20 favorites]
It is not at all uncommon for person A to be paying the rent, and B to be doing the chores, cooking, cleaning, and maybe a back rub afterwards. I know its not quite that simple always, but common.
I always post about love languages: What do you need to feel loved? What do you give to feel love? Some love languages are: Gifts, quality time, physical touch, words of encouragement, services (like dishes and such)
One thing I often see if people trying to give THEIR love language to the partner, but NOT PARTNERS love language. If both people are giving and receiving the wrong love language, everybody feels like they are pouring out lots of love but getting none in return.
Honestly, I'm kinda confused as to why yall fight so much. He does not seem very... expressive? Communicative? But I am also confused why your default option seems to be bitchy. You know this gets you less than nothing, so... stop :P
Lacking some more info, I'm kinda at a loss of where to offer advice... Maybe 'I do love you, I'm sorry for X, Y, and Z." then go on and live the best life you can. He can stay nice and kind with you, or be sulky and grumpy. then you have choices to make, but as long as you are making them from good, solid ground...
posted by Jacen at 6:48 PM on April 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I always post about love languages: What do you need to feel loved? What do you give to feel love? Some love languages are: Gifts, quality time, physical touch, words of encouragement, services (like dishes and such)
One thing I often see if people trying to give THEIR love language to the partner, but NOT PARTNERS love language. If both people are giving and receiving the wrong love language, everybody feels like they are pouring out lots of love but getting none in return.
Honestly, I'm kinda confused as to why yall fight so much. He does not seem very... expressive? Communicative? But I am also confused why your default option seems to be bitchy. You know this gets you less than nothing, so... stop :P
Lacking some more info, I'm kinda at a loss of where to offer advice... Maybe 'I do love you, I'm sorry for X, Y, and Z." then go on and live the best life you can. He can stay nice and kind with you, or be sulky and grumpy. then you have choices to make, but as long as you are making them from good, solid ground...
posted by Jacen at 6:48 PM on April 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Not to threadsit but yes, I was very clear about the birthday. He's known for years. And he knew the exact restaurant I wanted and if indeed wanted to get me a gift, well that's what my Etsy wishlist is for ha.
posted by DeltaForce at 6:49 PM on April 12, 2013
posted by DeltaForce at 6:49 PM on April 12, 2013
Is what I did wrong?
Oh god, no. Getting very drunk and feeling ill afterward is practically Early 20s Handbook. Sure, probably in this case it was a mistake, but it wasn't "wrong" in any moral sense. If he's giving you shit for drinking beyond, "Oh, honey, that probably wasn't a very good idea, was it?" Everyone has bad days, even if "self-inflicted", and if he's not willing to support you through them, I'd say DTMFA. Honestly.
People are actually nice to me and seem to like me, but this has served to make things worse between him and I because he knows I get hit on frequently, but doesn't believe that I do not reciprocate.
I- okay. You have a Thing you do that you enjoy. Your partner disapproves and acts jealous, though you have given him no reason to be. A relationship in which one of you doesn't respect the others' Thing They Do For Fun is no sort of relationship I'd ever want to be in.
Dump him, go enjoy dancing and your friends.
posted by BungaDunga at 6:50 PM on April 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh god, no. Getting very drunk and feeling ill afterward is practically Early 20s Handbook. Sure, probably in this case it was a mistake, but it wasn't "wrong" in any moral sense. If he's giving you shit for drinking beyond, "Oh, honey, that probably wasn't a very good idea, was it?" Everyone has bad days, even if "self-inflicted", and if he's not willing to support you through them, I'd say DTMFA. Honestly.
People are actually nice to me and seem to like me, but this has served to make things worse between him and I because he knows I get hit on frequently, but doesn't believe that I do not reciprocate.
I- okay. You have a Thing you do that you enjoy. Your partner disapproves and acts jealous, though you have given him no reason to be. A relationship in which one of you doesn't respect the others' Thing They Do For Fun is no sort of relationship I'd ever want to be in.
Dump him, go enjoy dancing and your friends.
posted by BungaDunga at 6:50 PM on April 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Dude. You have asked so many questions about this relationship that I immediately recognized your username. You two are just not a good match. You have tried all the things! It is time to let it go.
posted by grapesaresour at 6:51 PM on April 12, 2013 [35 favorites]
posted by grapesaresour at 6:51 PM on April 12, 2013 [35 favorites]
Particularly given past relationship questions I don't think any good is going to come of trying to salvage this. You don't like each other and you're making each other miserable.
(He should have seized on the excess of the night before as a reason to take you out for a nice big greasy birthday breakfast, not as an excuse to do nothing)
Be as polite and respectful as you can, stop nagging him; just move forward and towards the break-up with as much diplomacy as possible, and GTFO and find somebody who will give you presents on the usual present-receiving occasions. He's not even reaching bare boyfriend minimums here.
posted by kmennie at 6:52 PM on April 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
(He should have seized on the excess of the night before as a reason to take you out for a nice big greasy birthday breakfast, not as an excuse to do nothing)
Be as polite and respectful as you can, stop nagging him; just move forward and towards the break-up with as much diplomacy as possible, and GTFO and find somebody who will give you presents on the usual present-receiving occasions. He's not even reaching bare boyfriend minimums here.
posted by kmennie at 6:52 PM on April 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
The way you phrase your questions about your own behavior makes it sound like you think that there's an objectively right way to have a relationship, and that if you can figure out what a perfect girlfriend would do and then do that, your relationship will just sort itself out. This is a really common view of relationships, especially among young women, but it's a misunderstanding of how happy relationships work. There is no one-size-fits-all happy relationship; there's no script for a perfect girlfriend or perfect boyfriend. The way that people build and maintain happy relationships is by being in agreement about what their own unique relationship looks like. This could mean that one person does all the chores, or it could mean that chores are split evenly, or it could mean that a maid does the chores. It could mean that both partners make a big deal about birthdays, or that neither does, or that one partner does and the other doesn't. The specifics don't matter. What actually matters is: 1) that both partners are clear about their own needs and expectations, 2) that each partner listens to and respects the other partner's needs, and 3) when there's a conflict with those needs, both partners treat the other with compassion and good faith and work toward a compromise.
To put it another way, you cannot fix this relationship by yourself because a relationship by definition involves more than one person. If he's not pulling his own weight, he's doing nothing more than dragging you down.
posted by oinopaponton at 6:59 PM on April 12, 2013 [33 favorites]
To put it another way, you cannot fix this relationship by yourself because a relationship by definition involves more than one person. If he's not pulling his own weight, he's doing nothing more than dragging you down.
posted by oinopaponton at 6:59 PM on April 12, 2013 [33 favorites]
You can't fix it all by yourself. He has to want - and try - to fix it, too, and it doesn't sound like he's interested in being a kind or even remotely equal partner.
posted by something something at 6:59 PM on April 12, 2013
posted by something something at 6:59 PM on April 12, 2013
This is like trying to save a pile of ashes -- whatever you had burned, it's gone, it isn't coming back. You're staying together out of habit -- you don't say anywhere that you want to stay together because you're in love with him.
As far as behavior -- honestly, if I were living with someone and was paying all the rent working and going to school and they weren't working, I would expect them to do all the chores.
When you go out, how are you paying for anything? It sounds like you're basically mooching off him and then nitpicking when he doesn't contribute to the relationship. Well, what are you contributing? It sounds like you just want to have fun, and he's much more serious about life.
Maybe the reason he's not acting all loving and considerate is because he just doesn't give a shit about you anymore, but doesn't have the balls to break up. Because it sounds like you guys are more like roommates who hate each other and can barely stand each other than a couple. Stop fooling yourself.
posted by DoubleLune at 6:59 PM on April 12, 2013 [12 favorites]
As far as behavior -- honestly, if I were living with someone and was paying all the rent working and going to school and they weren't working, I would expect them to do all the chores.
When you go out, how are you paying for anything? It sounds like you're basically mooching off him and then nitpicking when he doesn't contribute to the relationship. Well, what are you contributing? It sounds like you just want to have fun, and he's much more serious about life.
Maybe the reason he's not acting all loving and considerate is because he just doesn't give a shit about you anymore, but doesn't have the balls to break up. Because it sounds like you guys are more like roommates who hate each other and can barely stand each other than a couple. Stop fooling yourself.
posted by DoubleLune at 6:59 PM on April 12, 2013 [12 favorites]
If he's footing the bill for your rent, then you should be doing all the chores around the house. You shouldn't bitch and nag at him. It doesn't work and you both end up annoyed.
Does he resent you for not working? If you don't have enough money to pay rent, how are you paying to go out and party? See, I'd be very annoyed by that.
Frankly, he sounds like a petulant jerk and you sound a bit entitled. All in all, not a great match.
If you break up, where will you live? If you're only staying because he's paying, that's messed up.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:59 PM on April 12, 2013 [15 favorites]
Does he resent you for not working? If you don't have enough money to pay rent, how are you paying to go out and party? See, I'd be very annoyed by that.
Frankly, he sounds like a petulant jerk and you sound a bit entitled. All in all, not a great match.
If you break up, where will you live? If you're only staying because he's paying, that's messed up.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:59 PM on April 12, 2013 [15 favorites]
I am telling you, my 23 year old self, that relationships don't have to be like this. Sometimes they just stop working, and that's normal. I didn't know that when I was your age, and I regret sticking around long past the expiration date of some of my relationships.
It's going to suck, but you need to end this. I promise you, with 100% certainty, there's someone better for you out there.
posted by HopperFan at 7:01 PM on April 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
It's going to suck, but you need to end this. I promise you, with 100% certainty, there's someone better for you out there.
posted by HopperFan at 7:01 PM on April 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Just wanted to clarify, like I said I don't drink, so I don't actually have to pay anything. The places I go are free to get in and by a lot, I mean once or twice a week for a couple hours (except for the birthday). I am typically a hermit so that is a lot for me.
posted by DeltaForce at 7:02 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by DeltaForce at 7:02 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
a relationship is supposed to be mutually beneficial.
Yes.
You can't single-handedly improve this relationship. Relationships, by their nature, require each person to contribute meaningfully. That doesn't have to mean a 50/50 split on everything, but it does have to mean that each person is making a sincere effort to make the relationship a happy and healthy one.
I'd also disagree Ruthless Bunny's contention that, "If he's footing the bill for your rent, then you should be doing all the chores around the house." If he's paying the rent and you're planning not to work at all, not actively looking for a job, only looking for part-time or unpaid stuff, etc. AND if the two of you agree to it, it COULD make sense for you to do all the chores in exchange for his financial support. If you're actively looking for work, then it's not so clear cut--sure, if you're at home more and he's super busy with work and school, it makes sense for you to pick up the slack for now. But it sounds like, for long-term happiness, you need a partner who is willing to share the burden of the chores, and that's totally fine and normal--and there are guys who can be that partner for you. It sounds like your boyfriend can't or won't be that kind of partner. It's ok for that to be a deal-breaker.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:05 PM on April 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
Yes.
You can't single-handedly improve this relationship. Relationships, by their nature, require each person to contribute meaningfully. That doesn't have to mean a 50/50 split on everything, but it does have to mean that each person is making a sincere effort to make the relationship a happy and healthy one.
I'd also disagree Ruthless Bunny's contention that, "If he's footing the bill for your rent, then you should be doing all the chores around the house." If he's paying the rent and you're planning not to work at all, not actively looking for a job, only looking for part-time or unpaid stuff, etc. AND if the two of you agree to it, it COULD make sense for you to do all the chores in exchange for his financial support. If you're actively looking for work, then it's not so clear cut--sure, if you're at home more and he's super busy with work and school, it makes sense for you to pick up the slack for now. But it sounds like, for long-term happiness, you need a partner who is willing to share the burden of the chores, and that's totally fine and normal--and there are guys who can be that partner for you. It sounds like your boyfriend can't or won't be that kind of partner. It's ok for that to be a deal-breaker.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:05 PM on April 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
What exactly are you doing with your days? I'm not attacking you, but if I was supporting someone, and they were going out all the time, and also asking me to do chores, with a sort of Pollyanna attitude about it all, like, "Golly gee, why would you be mad at me?" I'd probably come unglued, as well. I think he's sending you some strong signals that he is not happy. Sit down and have a talk about divided responsibility. Define your roles. SHOULD you be doing all the chores? I don't know, don't ask us, ask him. What is he comfortable with and what are you comfortable with? Define what you are supposed to be doing.
posted by amodelcitizen at 7:08 PM on April 12, 2013 [12 favorites]
posted by amodelcitizen at 7:08 PM on April 12, 2013 [12 favorites]
Best answer: I've been contemplating a similar question to "what steps can I take before throwing in the towel?" with my own relationship, and I've been working with my therapist on this. One thing we've talked about is making sure that's a valid question, by asking myself questions like "How bad would it have to be for me to leave?" and "What would it look like to have tried hard enough?" - to set guidelines in a way, to make sure that I'm not pouring an infinite amount of myself into this relationship. Maybe trying to come up with just-checking questions like that for yourself could be a next step.
posted by mysh at 7:14 PM on April 12, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by mysh at 7:14 PM on April 12, 2013 [10 favorites]
He works 40 hours a week and he's going to school?. You do not work? This is not a matter of him paying the rent (as you say) but of equal division of labor. Are you doing the dishes, cleaning litter, taking out the trash, making money, or whatever other task is contributing to the team that is the two of you for 40 hours a week?
What I'm seeing in this question is that you want him to do all the money-making and chores, you like dancing, and you want presents on your birthday. I must be missing something but...? I think you just sound young. There's nothing wrong with that -- we were all young once -- but you're not picking up on the adult responsibilities that come with an adult relationship and frankly make it work as a partnership of equals. He may very well leave if this doesn't change in part because doing so means he'd have less arguing, more money, and the same amount of chores.
posted by Houstonian at 7:16 PM on April 12, 2013 [24 favorites]
What I'm seeing in this question is that you want him to do all the money-making and chores, you like dancing, and you want presents on your birthday. I must be missing something but...? I think you just sound young. There's nothing wrong with that -- we were all young once -- but you're not picking up on the adult responsibilities that come with an adult relationship and frankly make it work as a partnership of equals. He may very well leave if this doesn't change in part because doing so means he'd have less arguing, more money, and the same amount of chores.
posted by Houstonian at 7:16 PM on April 12, 2013 [24 favorites]
You're asking us for advice on how to stay in what frankly sounds like a really crummy relationship, especially when I saw your username and recognized it (just like another poster here). You've been having all kinds of troubles with this guy for awhile now. If I understand your history correctly, he: didn't take care of you when you were sick after drinking too much, ignored your birthday, treats strangers better than he treats you, makes you feel like a second class citizen, games constantly and doesn't spend quality time with you, blames you for his obsessive videogaming habit...
I think that some people might call his behavior passive-aggressive at best, and abusive at worst. Whatever it is, this is not just about you fixing it. You both have work to do.
You can try to read the book How to Be an Adult in Relationships, because I think it might help you stop some of your behaviors that aren't great, but it won't change him. Because of his passive, avoidant behaviors that you've described in other threads, I doubt that he is going to tackle this problem head-on the way that it needs to be tackled, but maybe he will also read this book and agree to work on stuff that he needs to work on, too.
posted by sockermom at 7:19 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think that some people might call his behavior passive-aggressive at best, and abusive at worst. Whatever it is, this is not just about you fixing it. You both have work to do.
You can try to read the book How to Be an Adult in Relationships, because I think it might help you stop some of your behaviors that aren't great, but it won't change him. Because of his passive, avoidant behaviors that you've described in other threads, I doubt that he is going to tackle this problem head-on the way that it needs to be tackled, but maybe he will also read this book and agree to work on stuff that he needs to work on, too.
posted by sockermom at 7:19 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Last time, I promise. He works part-time, I go dancing once a week for a couple hours, and I am going on job interview after job interview. Today I had two. My question is not who is worse, it's what can I do to make it better?
posted by DeltaForce at 7:21 PM on April 12, 2013
posted by DeltaForce at 7:21 PM on April 12, 2013
Best answer: Your remarks sound a bit like my early marriage. I would nag and nag and he would say "I'll do it..after x." and not do it and then say "I'll do it after y." and still not do it, etc. Asking nicely did nothing. Being firm but neutral did nothing. Being a bitch did nothing.
Some things that helped:
I eventually stopped screaming about little stuff (I still screamed during big fights, but not about stupid little things). Screaming did not accomplish anything good and left us both with a lot of baggage. So I decided to just stop. It was a bad habit, my "feelings" be damned. Instead of yelling about, say, him not turning the light or oven off, I began humorously saying "It turns off in a manner similar to how it turns on." Frequent nice reminders did help some but I eventually realized he just had a terrible memory and was oblivious about some things. So some things I just had to learn to accept.
I stopped being mad that he could not remember my birthday when I realized he couldn't remember his own. Birthdays just did not make his radar. He did remember our wedding anniversary, which was kind of a big compliment I think because he was so bad with dates/time generally.
I also just decided at some point that if it really mattered and I wanted it done a certain way, I would just do it myself rather than let him half-ass it or drop the ball altogether. I also worked on trying to arrange our lives to be overall easier and more convenient. If there are fewer things that need to be done, there are fewer sources of friction.
He was the breadwinner and I was a homemaker, so, yeah he did not do that much at home. That is a time-honored, effective division of labor that works for a lot of people.
posted by Michele in California at 7:23 PM on April 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Some things that helped:
I eventually stopped screaming about little stuff (I still screamed during big fights, but not about stupid little things). Screaming did not accomplish anything good and left us both with a lot of baggage. So I decided to just stop. It was a bad habit, my "feelings" be damned. Instead of yelling about, say, him not turning the light or oven off, I began humorously saying "It turns off in a manner similar to how it turns on." Frequent nice reminders did help some but I eventually realized he just had a terrible memory and was oblivious about some things. So some things I just had to learn to accept.
I stopped being mad that he could not remember my birthday when I realized he couldn't remember his own. Birthdays just did not make his radar. He did remember our wedding anniversary, which was kind of a big compliment I think because he was so bad with dates/time generally.
I also just decided at some point that if it really mattered and I wanted it done a certain way, I would just do it myself rather than let him half-ass it or drop the ball altogether. I also worked on trying to arrange our lives to be overall easier and more convenient. If there are fewer things that need to be done, there are fewer sources of friction.
He was the breadwinner and I was a homemaker, so, yeah he did not do that much at home. That is a time-honored, effective division of labor that works for a lot of people.
posted by Michele in California at 7:23 PM on April 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
My question is not who is worse, it's what can I do to make it better?
But you've asked your SO this question, right? (preferably with a 'we', instead of an 'I', but still).
If a relationship is hurting, it takes two willing partners to try to fix it. Has he shown any willingness on his end? Has he expressed as much to you? Because if he hasn't, then I think you already know the rest.
posted by Broseph at 7:35 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
But you've asked your SO this question, right? (preferably with a 'we', instead of an 'I', but still).
If a relationship is hurting, it takes two willing partners to try to fix it. Has he shown any willingness on his end? Has he expressed as much to you? Because if he hasn't, then I think you already know the rest.
posted by Broseph at 7:35 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: As Michele said :-) And mine was much the same. If you do want to save the relationship (and not leave) then ask yourself whether you want to be right or whether you want to be happy. Maybe he *should* be doing more chores. But is that the sword you want to die on?
Personally, I have come to learn that one of the great lies women learn about relationships from television and magazines is that talking always helps things. If you are, in your own word, bitching at him everyday, that is far too often. If you tone down the criticisms, you may find that the tension level goes down significantly.
Have one more conversation with him. Tell him you want to pull your weight, and be a partner in the relationship with him. Ask him how you can demonstrate it to him. Say nothing about what you want. Then shut up for a week and see what happens. And if it doesn't work out, you'll know you gave it a good try.
posted by JoannaC at 7:39 PM on April 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Personally, I have come to learn that one of the great lies women learn about relationships from television and magazines is that talking always helps things. If you are, in your own word, bitching at him everyday, that is far too often. If you tone down the criticisms, you may find that the tension level goes down significantly.
Have one more conversation with him. Tell him you want to pull your weight, and be a partner in the relationship with him. Ask him how you can demonstrate it to him. Say nothing about what you want. Then shut up for a week and see what happens. And if it doesn't work out, you'll know you gave it a good try.
posted by JoannaC at 7:39 PM on April 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: He's very angry at you. Though he's angry, he's loathe to break up with you because he feels it would be a supremely shitty thing to do to a person who's unemployed and having difficulty taking responsibility for themselves.
There is some serious, simmering hostility on his part toward you, as evidenced by his doing things to himself that make a person uncomfortable - allowing garbage to pile up in your kitchen, not doing dishes, allowing the cat box to fester - just to spite you. He blew you off on your birthday. He tells you what you want to hear ("yeah, sure, I'll take out the garbage") and then passive aggressively refuses to do what he says he will do. He has told you flat out that you only care about yourself. This is pretty significant evidence of contempt, wouldn't you say?
Now, why is he angry at you? It's probably because, in his view, he's working and going to school and you're not doing anything but going out dancing and fixating on everything he's not doing for you and your home, rather than on the one huge nice thing that he is doing for you, namely keeping a roof over your head while you're unemployed. (Again, this is his view; I am not yet expressing my personal view of the reality of this thing.)
DeltaForce, I'm old now and I can tell you from lots and lots and lots of experience that you cannot win the love, affection, respect, and consideration from an alienated partner by demanding it. Better to start assuming responsibility for yourself, setting some goals and accomplishing them, and working toward getting the things in your life that you want for the long term outside of a romantic relationship. This is what he is doing. He's working. He's paying rent. He's going to school. He's working toward something outside of being your partner. This is ok, actually; it's ok to work on yourself and enjoy being an accomplished person, and enjoy the respect and love and care of your spouse as a really excellent by-product of all that self-exploration and hard work. To him, it is probably most frustrating - more than your expecting him to clean the litter, take out the garbage and do the dishes while you're unemployed and he's going to school and working to keep a roof over both your heads - that your focus on yourself is mostly the focus of a person who wants to escape their problems rather than that of a person who wants to solve them.
Now. Do I believe that you MUST do ALL the chores around the house because he is the sole breadwinner? No. I don't believe that. But what I do believe is that both people in a relationship are responsible for all the things. That includes you. If you see there is garbage that needs to go out, take it out. If the litter box smells, scoop it. If the dishes are dirty, clean them. Once you assume this baseline responsibility for all the things, a natural division of labor starts to emerge. If you make a good faith effort to care for your surroundings and, in so doing, show respect for your partner and yourself, you might begin to see the same being done for you. You might begin to see that he scoops because you gag at the smell of cat piss. Or that because you keep on top of the garbage and dishes, he budgets his time to make sure there's always stuff to make sandwiches in the fridge and good coffee on hand for you when you wake up in the morning.
All that said, you're really young. You guys don't sound well-matched. Importantly, I think, you seem to think that getting someone to do things for you is proof that they love you. I cannot say magic words to make you think differently but I can tell you that it is highly, highly unlikely that this relationship will end up in a loving, healthy, supportive, mutually gratifying life-long love the way that you two interact right now. My best advice I can offer is to turn your focus to getting an income. The self-esteem that comes along with providing for yourself might help sculpt for you a new image of your perfect love relationship.
Good luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 7:51 PM on April 12, 2013 [43 favorites]
There is some serious, simmering hostility on his part toward you, as evidenced by his doing things to himself that make a person uncomfortable - allowing garbage to pile up in your kitchen, not doing dishes, allowing the cat box to fester - just to spite you. He blew you off on your birthday. He tells you what you want to hear ("yeah, sure, I'll take out the garbage") and then passive aggressively refuses to do what he says he will do. He has told you flat out that you only care about yourself. This is pretty significant evidence of contempt, wouldn't you say?
Now, why is he angry at you? It's probably because, in his view, he's working and going to school and you're not doing anything but going out dancing and fixating on everything he's not doing for you and your home, rather than on the one huge nice thing that he is doing for you, namely keeping a roof over your head while you're unemployed. (Again, this is his view; I am not yet expressing my personal view of the reality of this thing.)
DeltaForce, I'm old now and I can tell you from lots and lots and lots of experience that you cannot win the love, affection, respect, and consideration from an alienated partner by demanding it. Better to start assuming responsibility for yourself, setting some goals and accomplishing them, and working toward getting the things in your life that you want for the long term outside of a romantic relationship. This is what he is doing. He's working. He's paying rent. He's going to school. He's working toward something outside of being your partner. This is ok, actually; it's ok to work on yourself and enjoy being an accomplished person, and enjoy the respect and love and care of your spouse as a really excellent by-product of all that self-exploration and hard work. To him, it is probably most frustrating - more than your expecting him to clean the litter, take out the garbage and do the dishes while you're unemployed and he's going to school and working to keep a roof over both your heads - that your focus on yourself is mostly the focus of a person who wants to escape their problems rather than that of a person who wants to solve them.
Now. Do I believe that you MUST do ALL the chores around the house because he is the sole breadwinner? No. I don't believe that. But what I do believe is that both people in a relationship are responsible for all the things. That includes you. If you see there is garbage that needs to go out, take it out. If the litter box smells, scoop it. If the dishes are dirty, clean them. Once you assume this baseline responsibility for all the things, a natural division of labor starts to emerge. If you make a good faith effort to care for your surroundings and, in so doing, show respect for your partner and yourself, you might begin to see the same being done for you. You might begin to see that he scoops because you gag at the smell of cat piss. Or that because you keep on top of the garbage and dishes, he budgets his time to make sure there's always stuff to make sandwiches in the fridge and good coffee on hand for you when you wake up in the morning.
All that said, you're really young. You guys don't sound well-matched. Importantly, I think, you seem to think that getting someone to do things for you is proof that they love you. I cannot say magic words to make you think differently but I can tell you that it is highly, highly unlikely that this relationship will end up in a loving, healthy, supportive, mutually gratifying life-long love the way that you two interact right now. My best advice I can offer is to turn your focus to getting an income. The self-esteem that comes along with providing for yourself might help sculpt for you a new image of your perfect love relationship.
Good luck.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 7:51 PM on April 12, 2013 [43 favorites]
FWIW, my ex is the most passive-aggressive person I have ever known and he can be a huge asshole in some ways. But his inability to take the trash out for three days straight had nothing to do with spiting me. He just sucked at some things. The fact that he sucked had more to do with his mother's shortcomings than mine.
His failings were not personal (i.e. not aimed at me -- he just couldn't do certain things) and they certainly were not done out of spite or malice. I stayed as long as I did in part because I was crystal clear that stupidity was a much more accurate explanation than malice for about 99% of what he did wrong.
For some things, I concluded that yelling at him was about like yelling at a deaf person. A deaf person isn't refusing to listen. Their inability to hear isn't intentional or by choice or something they selectively turn on and off. Yelling louder doesn't overcome the issue. There are things that help. That just doesn't happen to be one of them.
posted by Michele in California at 8:11 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
His failings were not personal (i.e. not aimed at me -- he just couldn't do certain things) and they certainly were not done out of spite or malice. I stayed as long as I did in part because I was crystal clear that stupidity was a much more accurate explanation than malice for about 99% of what he did wrong.
For some things, I concluded that yelling at him was about like yelling at a deaf person. A deaf person isn't refusing to listen. Their inability to hear isn't intentional or by choice or something they selectively turn on and off. Yelling louder doesn't overcome the issue. There are things that help. That just doesn't happen to be one of them.
posted by Michele in California at 8:11 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Sounds like things are not great. I would start by really really taking care of your side of the street and make it clear that you are ready to give and step up on your side in order to get things back on track so that you guys start building trust again, if you decide you do want to save the relationship.
In terms of your birthday, this is just my take, but it sounds like it would not be super fun to go out with a partner who had a super bad hangover and was possibly puking. A lot of it comes down to the tone you used when you broached the issue with him in the first place, and no one here really knows about that.
Maybe you can show him you want to fix things by instead of focusing on fixing "the relationship" where your self interest is a big factor, start by telling him you want him to feel cared for and ask if he does and what make him feel that way. If you really give it some effort, he may not follow in kind immediately but he probably will eventually. You might have to shelve a lot of the resentment for now if you go that route.
All this is a lot more easily said than done, especially if you already feel super resentful of each other. I would also think about getting a therapist and thinking about your personal relationship dynamics.
posted by mermily at 8:39 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
In terms of your birthday, this is just my take, but it sounds like it would not be super fun to go out with a partner who had a super bad hangover and was possibly puking. A lot of it comes down to the tone you used when you broached the issue with him in the first place, and no one here really knows about that.
Maybe you can show him you want to fix things by instead of focusing on fixing "the relationship" where your self interest is a big factor, start by telling him you want him to feel cared for and ask if he does and what make him feel that way. If you really give it some effort, he may not follow in kind immediately but he probably will eventually. You might have to shelve a lot of the resentment for now if you go that route.
All this is a lot more easily said than done, especially if you already feel super resentful of each other. I would also think about getting a therapist and thinking about your personal relationship dynamics.
posted by mermily at 8:39 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I second TryTheTilapia. It is extremely probable that he resents you. If he is already working, and in school, and he was stuck with the chores, what time would he have left for himself? Furthermore, what would you be doing, exactly?
I don't mean this to come across as harsh, but really now -- unless I am missing something, why is it that you feel it is okay to make him do even more than his fair share? How actively are you seeking employment? If your SO feels like you're sitting at home having fun or going out and having fun (which he likely can't do because of his obligations) and and there is little evidence that you are actively trying to get a job, it is understandable that he would be upset.
I will say that the behavior towards you on your birthday was untowards, at least as it was described. I have a similar issue with birthdays being a sore spot for me (my father died on my 17th birthday). I really am sorry that you didn't have a good birthday. I know that that can hurt.
There is nothing in your post that leads me to believe you two need to be together. It could be that you are worried and hurt and not doing the best job of articulating why you love him, and that's understandable, too. Try to imagine your life without him and see if it looks better or worse. Try to find a job as soon as you can, just in case 1) he gets tired of supporting you or 2) you decide you'd be better off on your own and want to finance a move.
I wish you the best of luck and really hope you decide what is important for you.
posted by nohaybanda at 8:58 PM on April 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I don't mean this to come across as harsh, but really now -- unless I am missing something, why is it that you feel it is okay to make him do even more than his fair share? How actively are you seeking employment? If your SO feels like you're sitting at home having fun or going out and having fun (which he likely can't do because of his obligations) and and there is little evidence that you are actively trying to get a job, it is understandable that he would be upset.
I will say that the behavior towards you on your birthday was untowards, at least as it was described. I have a similar issue with birthdays being a sore spot for me (my father died on my 17th birthday). I really am sorry that you didn't have a good birthday. I know that that can hurt.
There is nothing in your post that leads me to believe you two need to be together. It could be that you are worried and hurt and not doing the best job of articulating why you love him, and that's understandable, too. Try to imagine your life without him and see if it looks better or worse. Try to find a job as soon as you can, just in case 1) he gets tired of supporting you or 2) you decide you'd be better off on your own and want to finance a move.
I wish you the best of luck and really hope you decide what is important for you.
posted by nohaybanda at 8:58 PM on April 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Okay, so the thing where you ask him to do something, and he says he will and then doesn't, and so you do it yourself just to reduce stress and get it done your way? That's the reason why women in supposedly "egalitarian" relationships end up doing more than their fair share of the housework anyway. Don't do that. It's a waste of your time.
Either don't do it until he does, or if that means it really isn't ever ever going to get done, dump him and find a man who knows how to take care of himself. Learn to let go and let yourself have honest opinions about whether or not he is fit to be a life partner.
I think what your "fair share" of the housework is in the relationship is up for debate because he's working and you're not but are job hunting and will, soon, be working again. So I can understand why there might be some bumps in terms of figuring out who should do what. But if you're feeling crummy, and you ask him to clean the litter box, and he says yes and then doesn't, he is the one at fault, not you for not being Suzy Homemaker while you were sick. You two should probably discuss it, and you should both feel that the results are fair.
You are young (my age!) and I would definitely resent living with someone who acted like he hated me, didn't sleep in the same bed as me, and accused me of only caring about myself... basically hating me while not bothering to break up with me. I would resent it because I personally feel young and like my life is full of possibilities and I wouldn't want to tether myself to someone who made me feel miserable. You should probably just move out, maybe break up with him, start that new job and go out dancing as much as you want (and maybe find a new boyfriend that way, since people like you so much).
I gotta say though, you sound young, but people are really bristling at the idea that he might have one or two chores while you go out dancing and ~want presents~, heaven forbid, idk. It sounds like people are stereotyping you as a trivial girl or something when to me it sounds like you're working hard on getting a job and doing a lot of the housework. It's not that unfair to ask him to do one or two things-- when I was job hunting I spent hours every day making resumes and writing cover letters and looking for new job postings, so it's not like you're on the couch flirting with your dance boyfriends and eating bon bons all day. If you weren't there he'd being going to school and work and doing 100% of the chores, it's not inhumane to ask him to take out the trash. Also, in my experience, the guys who can't do a little thing for you when you're indisposed are the guys who aren't going to suddenly pick up the slack when you're working too (guess what, he's still going to say he'll do dishes/take out trash/clean the litter box and not do it).
The birthday stuff is just an obvious sign that he doesn't really even like you, for reasons we can't really know. Even if you had a hangover on your birthday, the loving thing to do would be to bring you a little present and take care of you for the day and poke a little fun and maybe make you a nice birthday hangover breakfast (eggs and hashbrowns!). Not ignore you and act like you're a burden. Ugh.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:13 PM on April 12, 2013 [19 favorites]
Either don't do it until he does, or if that means it really isn't ever ever going to get done, dump him and find a man who knows how to take care of himself. Learn to let go and let yourself have honest opinions about whether or not he is fit to be a life partner.
I think what your "fair share" of the housework is in the relationship is up for debate because he's working and you're not but are job hunting and will, soon, be working again. So I can understand why there might be some bumps in terms of figuring out who should do what. But if you're feeling crummy, and you ask him to clean the litter box, and he says yes and then doesn't, he is the one at fault, not you for not being Suzy Homemaker while you were sick. You two should probably discuss it, and you should both feel that the results are fair.
You are young (my age!) and I would definitely resent living with someone who acted like he hated me, didn't sleep in the same bed as me, and accused me of only caring about myself... basically hating me while not bothering to break up with me. I would resent it because I personally feel young and like my life is full of possibilities and I wouldn't want to tether myself to someone who made me feel miserable. You should probably just move out, maybe break up with him, start that new job and go out dancing as much as you want (and maybe find a new boyfriend that way, since people like you so much).
I gotta say though, you sound young, but people are really bristling at the idea that he might have one or two chores while you go out dancing and ~want presents~, heaven forbid, idk. It sounds like people are stereotyping you as a trivial girl or something when to me it sounds like you're working hard on getting a job and doing a lot of the housework. It's not that unfair to ask him to do one or two things-- when I was job hunting I spent hours every day making resumes and writing cover letters and looking for new job postings, so it's not like you're on the couch flirting with your dance boyfriends and eating bon bons all day. If you weren't there he'd being going to school and work and doing 100% of the chores, it's not inhumane to ask him to take out the trash. Also, in my experience, the guys who can't do a little thing for you when you're indisposed are the guys who aren't going to suddenly pick up the slack when you're working too (guess what, he's still going to say he'll do dishes/take out trash/clean the litter box and not do it).
The birthday stuff is just an obvious sign that he doesn't really even like you, for reasons we can't really know. Even if you had a hangover on your birthday, the loving thing to do would be to bring you a little present and take care of you for the day and poke a little fun and maybe make you a nice birthday hangover breakfast (eggs and hashbrowns!). Not ignore you and act like you're a burden. Ugh.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:13 PM on April 12, 2013 [19 favorites]
BTW, I searched and found this in one of the comment threads on your old relationship questions (I remembered this comment but didn't have it favorited):
Young women especially have this cultural programming in the back of their minds to be the supporter and encourage their male partner to succeed. This won't help you in the end and will just take time away from your own goals.
This is what you need to be thinking about. Maybe you both sound too immature for a working relationship at the moment, but that doesn't mean you need to buckle down and be the best little housewife you can be. What you PROBABLY need is to just be totally independent, and the resultant working + going to school + doing your chores will mature you rather quickly. Anyway, if I were stuck in a stay-at-home-girlfriend role in my relationship at the moment I would shoot myself. I have no desire to be in that kind of committed role at my age. I would rather go dancing than wash someone else's socks, and I make relationship choices accordingly. (But what this means is that I always support myself financially in order to afford that freedom.)
I am just speaking in principle, though. In your last question you said you do 90% of the chores so I don't actually think you're slacking off and being an entitled baby-- I think you're in a relationship with someone who is holding you back. (See: terrible birthday behavior, video game behavior, not being able to make his own dentist appointments, &c.) He or both of you need some independence before you can be good partners to each other.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:24 PM on April 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
Young women especially have this cultural programming in the back of their minds to be the supporter and encourage their male partner to succeed. This won't help you in the end and will just take time away from your own goals.
This is what you need to be thinking about. Maybe you both sound too immature for a working relationship at the moment, but that doesn't mean you need to buckle down and be the best little housewife you can be. What you PROBABLY need is to just be totally independent, and the resultant working + going to school + doing your chores will mature you rather quickly. Anyway, if I were stuck in a stay-at-home-girlfriend role in my relationship at the moment I would shoot myself. I have no desire to be in that kind of committed role at my age. I would rather go dancing than wash someone else's socks, and I make relationship choices accordingly. (But what this means is that I always support myself financially in order to afford that freedom.)
I am just speaking in principle, though. In your last question you said you do 90% of the chores so I don't actually think you're slacking off and being an entitled baby-- I think you're in a relationship with someone who is holding you back. (See: terrible birthday behavior, video game behavior, not being able to make his own dentist appointments, &c.) He or both of you need some independence before you can be good partners to each other.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:24 PM on April 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
He has already checked out of the relationship. You guys sleep separately, he blows you off on your birthday, he's passive-aggressively dealing with the household chores like a teenager. He has already decided that he's not in a partnership with you, as evidenced by his statements that you only care about yourself. Sounds a lot like he's dragging his feet until you get fed up and move out.
Gather up your dignity and start to plan your separation. At this stage, trying to "save" things by going hard on the Suzy Homemaker front is not only likely to fail at getting the responses you want from him, it's going to seem desperate. Sorry to say so, because it seems like you have every intention of hanging on to this relationship, but it sounds like the relationship is already over.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:51 PM on April 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
Gather up your dignity and start to plan your separation. At this stage, trying to "save" things by going hard on the Suzy Homemaker front is not only likely to fail at getting the responses you want from him, it's going to seem desperate. Sorry to say so, because it seems like you have every intention of hanging on to this relationship, but it sounds like the relationship is already over.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:51 PM on April 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
He has never been great with chores but since things have gone south, he doesn't help at all. Is that okay since he pays the rent? That would actually be a relief because if so, I wouldn't mind doing everything without resentment.
This is a weird question to ask, and it reminds me of a weird anecdote that might seem unrelated. I went to music school. One day in a guitar class, a student raised his hand to ask the professor a question. "I was playing around with this chord progression last night, and I came up with this transition." He strummed a few quick chords that sounded good. Then he asked, "Is that okay? Can I do that?"
It's such a bizarre question. Is it...okay? Well, whether it's okay is truly up to you. If you're cool with the tradeoff that Boyfriend pays the rent and Girlfriend does the chores (or vice versa), then yes, it is okay. If not, then it isn't. This is literally something that you decide for yourself and it's quite odd to ask for outside approval. There is no chance the Relationship Police are going to knock on your door because you're Doing It Wrong. (Nosy family, on the other hand...)
the night before, I went out dancing by myself (he didn't want to come), got very drunk because I almost never drink, and came home very late having been dropped off by some kind strangers. ... Is what I did wrong?
It would bother me, personally. Especially where you almost never drink, and you said earlier that your going out frequently has been an issue in your relationship and the next day was important. But the point isn't whether I would be bothered by it. I'm not your boyfriend. And the point isn't whether you can collect a dozen people on AskMetaFilter who will tell you, "I did the same thing when I was that age, and lots of other people do, therefore logically it cannot be wrong." The point is how your behavior the night before your birthday, or his behavior on your birthday, fits into the larger scheme of your relationship.
You are trying to analyze things in a vacuum—him paying rent and you doing chores; you going drinking; etc—and asking for rulings from people who don't know your relationship. These questions would seem to imply you think there's some objective standard of how relationships shall be conducted. There isn't. Figure out what works for you.
posted by cribcage at 9:53 PM on April 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
This is a weird question to ask, and it reminds me of a weird anecdote that might seem unrelated. I went to music school. One day in a guitar class, a student raised his hand to ask the professor a question. "I was playing around with this chord progression last night, and I came up with this transition." He strummed a few quick chords that sounded good. Then he asked, "Is that okay? Can I do that?"
It's such a bizarre question. Is it...okay? Well, whether it's okay is truly up to you. If you're cool with the tradeoff that Boyfriend pays the rent and Girlfriend does the chores (or vice versa), then yes, it is okay. If not, then it isn't. This is literally something that you decide for yourself and it's quite odd to ask for outside approval. There is no chance the Relationship Police are going to knock on your door because you're Doing It Wrong. (Nosy family, on the other hand...)
the night before, I went out dancing by myself (he didn't want to come), got very drunk because I almost never drink, and came home very late having been dropped off by some kind strangers. ... Is what I did wrong?
It would bother me, personally. Especially where you almost never drink, and you said earlier that your going out frequently has been an issue in your relationship and the next day was important. But the point isn't whether I would be bothered by it. I'm not your boyfriend. And the point isn't whether you can collect a dozen people on AskMetaFilter who will tell you, "I did the same thing when I was that age, and lots of other people do, therefore logically it cannot be wrong." The point is how your behavior the night before your birthday, or his behavior on your birthday, fits into the larger scheme of your relationship.
You are trying to analyze things in a vacuum—him paying rent and you doing chores; you going drinking; etc—and asking for rulings from people who don't know your relationship. These questions would seem to imply you think there's some objective standard of how relationships shall be conducted. There isn't. Figure out what works for you.
posted by cribcage at 9:53 PM on April 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
I've said this before in AskMe, and I'll probably say it dozens of times more because I wish someone had told me: the survival rate for relationships after contempt creeps in is pitifully, pitifully low.
This isn't some self-help koan. Psychologist John Gottman's work indicates that his team can correctly predict divorce in married couples 94% of the time and their primary tool is monitoring otherwise innocuous interactions between the couple for micro-expressions of contempt. Very little else about them, very little else they say or do, is as predictive for doom as that one thing: is there contempt? We're all special snowflakes, sure, and anything is possible, but once contempt sets in, hanging on is hoping for a miracle.
Consider what TryTheTilapia said. Do you think contempt has set in? You're a MeFite; odds are, you have a healthy skepticism and a respect for science. Your feelings are probably a mess right now. So think about what that would mean from a pragmatic standpoint.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:19 PM on April 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
This isn't some self-help koan. Psychologist John Gottman's work indicates that his team can correctly predict divorce in married couples 94% of the time and their primary tool is monitoring otherwise innocuous interactions between the couple for micro-expressions of contempt. Very little else about them, very little else they say or do, is as predictive for doom as that one thing: is there contempt? We're all special snowflakes, sure, and anything is possible, but once contempt sets in, hanging on is hoping for a miracle.
Consider what TryTheTilapia said. Do you think contempt has set in? You're a MeFite; odds are, you have a healthy skepticism and a respect for science. Your feelings are probably a mess right now. So think about what that would mean from a pragmatic standpoint.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:19 PM on April 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
Oh god, i was the roommate and third wheel to alternate universe you and your boyfriend, and watched almost exactly this situation play out. The whole time i was reading through this i was wondering if i had somehow hit a rupture in the space time continuum and was reading a post from a couple years ago by her. The similarities are fucking remarkable, seriously. It's like someone wanted to rip off the story and change it the required 10% so it wasn't copyright infringement. Seriously, i almost said "holy fuck" out loud at the garbage part and a few other things.
The difference is, i watched it slide from the point that you're at in to a couple more years of quagmire. They made lots of noises about fixing their problems, but as DirtyOldTown mentions, it's not just some BS chestnut of "knowledge" that once this type of contempt creeps in it's like getting in a flat spin in an airplane, if you pull out of it you are in such a minority that it's almost indescribable.
Not to mention, that i'm really really curious to hear what his side of this story is. Seriously. But that doesn't really do anything to effect my next point in any way.
Eject.
The amount of work that would go in to fixing it, and the time it would take is just not worth it for how young you are and the fact that this isn't some 10 year old marriage just now failing.
Not to mention the fact that the couple i used to live with, now split up, are infinitely happier even if they're still smarting a bit from the breakup.
Both of you will benefit enormously from having to get up and drag yourselves out of this rut of some twisted version of a 1950s house wife scenario. This is unhealthy for both of you, and i bet if you have any close friends they'll be commenting on how good it is you got out of that situation.
I just can't help but feel that this is some "sunk costs" type thing. You just keep pumping more and more energy, and more and more of yourself in to this because hey, you're already in this far and you're supposed to try and make relationships work and etc etc. I bet he feels very similarly frustrated and is just expressing it in different ways.
You'll hurt for a few months, and then afterwards look back and go "wow, why did i sit through that for so long. never doing that again" and forever look back on it as the time you learned that lesson, filed in there with all the other lessons like the terrible sex you had in high school.
This is just a really, really shitty hill to die on, ok?
posted by emptythought at 10:33 PM on April 12, 2013 [16 favorites]
The difference is, i watched it slide from the point that you're at in to a couple more years of quagmire. They made lots of noises about fixing their problems, but as DirtyOldTown mentions, it's not just some BS chestnut of "knowledge" that once this type of contempt creeps in it's like getting in a flat spin in an airplane, if you pull out of it you are in such a minority that it's almost indescribable.
Not to mention, that i'm really really curious to hear what his side of this story is. Seriously. But that doesn't really do anything to effect my next point in any way.
Eject.
The amount of work that would go in to fixing it, and the time it would take is just not worth it for how young you are and the fact that this isn't some 10 year old marriage just now failing.
Not to mention the fact that the couple i used to live with, now split up, are infinitely happier even if they're still smarting a bit from the breakup.
Both of you will benefit enormously from having to get up and drag yourselves out of this rut of some twisted version of a 1950s house wife scenario. This is unhealthy for both of you, and i bet if you have any close friends they'll be commenting on how good it is you got out of that situation.
I just can't help but feel that this is some "sunk costs" type thing. You just keep pumping more and more energy, and more and more of yourself in to this because hey, you're already in this far and you're supposed to try and make relationships work and etc etc. I bet he feels very similarly frustrated and is just expressing it in different ways.
You'll hurt for a few months, and then afterwards look back and go "wow, why did i sit through that for so long. never doing that again" and forever look back on it as the time you learned that lesson, filed in there with all the other lessons like the terrible sex you had in high school.
This is just a really, really shitty hill to die on, ok?
posted by emptythought at 10:33 PM on April 12, 2013 [16 favorites]
There is nothing you can do to improve this relationship because it's a car wreck. You've exhausted each other and it. It's over.
You seem bent on the idea that if you love him and he loves you, it must be fixable. Welcome to adulthood: it is not. It should not be this hard, it should not be this petty, it should not be this point scoring, it should not be this indifferent. You can keep wadding yourself up into smaller and smaller balls to make the relationship more frictionless, but you are going to reach a point with that where you eventually don't even recognise yourself.
Staying in this relationship isn't letting either of you mature. When you get a new job, get out. I understand it will be hard and heartbreaking but we've all been there. You will survive and it will be better.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:03 PM on April 12, 2013 [10 favorites]
You seem bent on the idea that if you love him and he loves you, it must be fixable. Welcome to adulthood: it is not. It should not be this hard, it should not be this petty, it should not be this point scoring, it should not be this indifferent. You can keep wadding yourself up into smaller and smaller balls to make the relationship more frictionless, but you are going to reach a point with that where you eventually don't even recognise yourself.
Staying in this relationship isn't letting either of you mature. When you get a new job, get out. I understand it will be hard and heartbreaking but we've all been there. You will survive and it will be better.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:03 PM on April 12, 2013 [10 favorites]
He fights with you every day, ignores reasonable requests, puts you down for being selfish when you're standing there saying you want to fix things, and acted super passive-aggressively to ruin your special occasion?
OK, setting aside the likelihood he's an immature jerk not worth your time at this point in his life and also setting aside the real possibility this relationship has been spoiled by long-term feelings of contempt, it's time to accept that you've long since reached the end of your infatuation/limerence for each other--a relationship phase often described as lasting 6 months to 3 years.
That's a really good time to cut loose, take inventory of what you've learned, read up on good long-term relationships, try again with someone else, establish a better foundation, etc. I mean, you're young. That's perfectly normal. You don't have a great foundation here. And you might be amazed at how much better things are with someone else who's learned from past relationships and will establish better habits early on so that infatuation fades into warmth, trust, contentment, respect, and partnership, rather than petty bullshit fights, put-downs, and emotional manipulation.
I suspect you'll keep trying, though, so here's what I guess is your best shot, if there's any shot at all (which I doubt). For one thing, summon up as many of the best feelings about this person as you can, and try daily to get them to remember how well they thought of you in the past: reminisce together, call up memories of things working between you, etc. For another, take stock of each other's needs--I really mean sit down and make lists with the clear understanding that no one is a mind-reader and there's been a serious breakdown that has left you with no good roadmap to follow. Is there something he has been asking for in the same way you've asked for him to take out the trash and whatnot (e.g. assuming this is the gamer you mentioned in another question, has he begged in the past for you to join him sometimes)? Is he witholding things you need because he's resentful some need of his isn't being met? Can he see that he has failed to meet your needs and has some work to do himself? If he's clearly with you at this point in agreeing to work on stuff, root out any long-standing causes for resentment and agree to a Brand New Day for both of you.
But if you do get to that point in the negotiation, be careful not to get carried away. Figure out the very easiest ways you can make each others' lives better again. Estimate that getting back to a good relationship is a huge job you'll have to work at just a little bit every day. And maybe set dates for evaluating this stuff again. I think if it's not better every month, it's not going to work, so use the lists of needs you make now to re-evaluate things once a month or so.
I should say again though, that's the kind of stuff emotionally mature people do to work things out, and your guy just doesn't sound like he's ready. When he says you're selfish and you don't really want to work on stuff, even though you're saying you are and you're here trying to get ideas about how, I don't hear that you're the immature one: I hear that he's manipulating you, which is neither selfless nor mature. And it's quite likely that by trying to work on things with him, you're just opening yourself wide to more of that kind of manipulation and missing chances every day to be in much happier situations.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 1:04 AM on April 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
OK, setting aside the likelihood he's an immature jerk not worth your time at this point in his life and also setting aside the real possibility this relationship has been spoiled by long-term feelings of contempt, it's time to accept that you've long since reached the end of your infatuation/limerence for each other--a relationship phase often described as lasting 6 months to 3 years.
That's a really good time to cut loose, take inventory of what you've learned, read up on good long-term relationships, try again with someone else, establish a better foundation, etc. I mean, you're young. That's perfectly normal. You don't have a great foundation here. And you might be amazed at how much better things are with someone else who's learned from past relationships and will establish better habits early on so that infatuation fades into warmth, trust, contentment, respect, and partnership, rather than petty bullshit fights, put-downs, and emotional manipulation.
I suspect you'll keep trying, though, so here's what I guess is your best shot, if there's any shot at all (which I doubt). For one thing, summon up as many of the best feelings about this person as you can, and try daily to get them to remember how well they thought of you in the past: reminisce together, call up memories of things working between you, etc. For another, take stock of each other's needs--I really mean sit down and make lists with the clear understanding that no one is a mind-reader and there's been a serious breakdown that has left you with no good roadmap to follow. Is there something he has been asking for in the same way you've asked for him to take out the trash and whatnot (e.g. assuming this is the gamer you mentioned in another question, has he begged in the past for you to join him sometimes)? Is he witholding things you need because he's resentful some need of his isn't being met? Can he see that he has failed to meet your needs and has some work to do himself? If he's clearly with you at this point in agreeing to work on stuff, root out any long-standing causes for resentment and agree to a Brand New Day for both of you.
But if you do get to that point in the negotiation, be careful not to get carried away. Figure out the very easiest ways you can make each others' lives better again. Estimate that getting back to a good relationship is a huge job you'll have to work at just a little bit every day. And maybe set dates for evaluating this stuff again. I think if it's not better every month, it's not going to work, so use the lists of needs you make now to re-evaluate things once a month or so.
I should say again though, that's the kind of stuff emotionally mature people do to work things out, and your guy just doesn't sound like he's ready. When he says you're selfish and you don't really want to work on stuff, even though you're saying you are and you're here trying to get ideas about how, I don't hear that you're the immature one: I hear that he's manipulating you, which is neither selfless nor mature. And it's quite likely that by trying to work on things with him, you're just opening yourself wide to more of that kind of manipulation and missing chances every day to be in much happier situations.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 1:04 AM on April 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
It seems like an emotionally unsatisfying relationship in which he doesn't care enough to make you happy.
So why would you want to save it? Why are you working so hard? It doesn't seem like he really cares.
He probably doesn't even plan on spending his life with you if you're that young. Why are you working so hard at this?
posted by discopolo at 4:22 AM on April 13, 2013
So why would you want to save it? Why are you working so hard? It doesn't seem like he really cares.
He probably doesn't even plan on spending his life with you if you're that young. Why are you working so hard at this?
posted by discopolo at 4:22 AM on April 13, 2013
Also not sure why you want to save this relationship. Perhaps some soul searching is in order here.
In a good relationship you spend a lot time with your SO, doing things you both enjoy, together. Sometimes you have to make an effort to maintain this. I don't know how you're going to fix this now. Nagging won't work, of course.
It sounds like you're not having sex any more. This is a big deal. I think most couples in their 20s should be having sex at least twice a week, more often is better. Maintain a regular sex life. Again, fixing this now will be hard.
Lots of guys are crap at housework, and will do things like agree to a chore and forget about it 30 seconds later. It's not an attack on you. If you're fighting over housework, pool your money and hire a housekeeper.
I say this mostly as advice for your next relationship. This one sounds like dead man walking. If you're determined to try to save it, expect to put in a lot of one sided effort for a while, and even then I don't think your odds are good.
posted by mattu at 6:25 AM on April 13, 2013
In a good relationship you spend a lot time with your SO, doing things you both enjoy, together. Sometimes you have to make an effort to maintain this. I don't know how you're going to fix this now. Nagging won't work, of course.
It sounds like you're not having sex any more. This is a big deal. I think most couples in their 20s should be having sex at least twice a week, more often is better. Maintain a regular sex life. Again, fixing this now will be hard.
Lots of guys are crap at housework, and will do things like agree to a chore and forget about it 30 seconds later. It's not an attack on you. If you're fighting over housework, pool your money and hire a housekeeper.
I say this mostly as advice for your next relationship. This one sounds like dead man walking. If you're determined to try to save it, expect to put in a lot of one sided effort for a while, and even then I don't think your odds are good.
posted by mattu at 6:25 AM on April 13, 2013
I know you marked this "answered", but I thought I would add a bit:
1. You're living with a fellow who does not understand that looking for work is work (kind of like a lot of mefites, I guess) and who assumes that because you're submitting resumes and going on interviews, you are "not doing anything" and it's okay to resent you and treat you badly. This does not bode well. Being out of work and looking for work are really stressful, and a partner who adds to the stress by being a jerk and also expecting you to be little Suzy Homemaker is not a good pick.
2. You wrote this question like you don't have a lot of confidence in yourself. It's clear from the answers that a lot of [male?] responders took this straight to misogyny-land, where they could say that you were expecting too much, flighty, spoiled, etc, when actually you sound pretty together - I mean, you're getting interviews as a twenty-something in this horrible economy, you're going out a little bit but only to inexpensive venues, you go to bars to dance because you like to dance [so do I, dancing is awesome] but don't get hammered, you actually notice when the cat needs care and things need to be cleaned, etc. Consider what you can do in your own head to foreground what you are doing right and not get caught up in trivialities.
3. Having a partner who doesn't help with chores is horrible and it eats away at you. It's really destructive - and frankly, every time I've told myself "it's more effort to nag than to do it myself because everyone is unwilling to help", I am reminded of my poor mother slaving away like something out of a working class version of Mad Men. You feel beat down when you have to accept that no one listens and no one helps. It's been really destructive to me in both friend and romantic relationships to be put into that "women do the chores and I don't have to hear and remember because dudes are just like that" situation - and it becomes even more painful and destructive when I realize that men who are supposedly my friends, who supposedly care about me, really believe that they do not have to listen when I talk and that perfectly reasonable requests can be ignored because after all, girls take care of that shit.
My point is that you are right to feel frustrated about chores - and think carefully about how you'll handle them in your next relationship. It may not be a "hill you want to die on", but it's a hill that can kill a lot of your sense of self-worth and being cared for.
posted by Frowner at 7:16 AM on April 13, 2013 [30 favorites]
1. You're living with a fellow who does not understand that looking for work is work (kind of like a lot of mefites, I guess) and who assumes that because you're submitting resumes and going on interviews, you are "not doing anything" and it's okay to resent you and treat you badly. This does not bode well. Being out of work and looking for work are really stressful, and a partner who adds to the stress by being a jerk and also expecting you to be little Suzy Homemaker is not a good pick.
2. You wrote this question like you don't have a lot of confidence in yourself. It's clear from the answers that a lot of [male?] responders took this straight to misogyny-land, where they could say that you were expecting too much, flighty, spoiled, etc, when actually you sound pretty together - I mean, you're getting interviews as a twenty-something in this horrible economy, you're going out a little bit but only to inexpensive venues, you go to bars to dance because you like to dance [so do I, dancing is awesome] but don't get hammered, you actually notice when the cat needs care and things need to be cleaned, etc. Consider what you can do in your own head to foreground what you are doing right and not get caught up in trivialities.
3. Having a partner who doesn't help with chores is horrible and it eats away at you. It's really destructive - and frankly, every time I've told myself "it's more effort to nag than to do it myself because everyone is unwilling to help", I am reminded of my poor mother slaving away like something out of a working class version of Mad Men. You feel beat down when you have to accept that no one listens and no one helps. It's been really destructive to me in both friend and romantic relationships to be put into that "women do the chores and I don't have to hear and remember because dudes are just like that" situation - and it becomes even more painful and destructive when I realize that men who are supposedly my friends, who supposedly care about me, really believe that they do not have to listen when I talk and that perfectly reasonable requests can be ignored because after all, girls take care of that shit.
My point is that you are right to feel frustrated about chores - and think carefully about how you'll handle them in your next relationship. It may not be a "hill you want to die on", but it's a hill that can kill a lot of your sense of self-worth and being cared for.
posted by Frowner at 7:16 AM on April 13, 2013 [30 favorites]
OP, please ignore the posts by people saying if you're not working you should do all the chores. They are wrong.
People's situations change, and there will always be work/living imbalances in any relationship. Making more money than someone doesn't connote working harder necessarily. Cleaning up after one's self, taking the 30 seconds to clean a dish or take out the trash is not an unreasonable request.
Expecting your significant other to do something nice for you on your birthday, even if you don't have a job is not unreasonable. That's what people who love each other do for one another.
Your partner doesn't respect you. The only time youre happy is when you are out of the house and away from your partner. You are very young. DTMFA. Move on. Go be happy. You deserve it. In spite of what other mefites believe.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 7:38 AM on April 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
People's situations change, and there will always be work/living imbalances in any relationship. Making more money than someone doesn't connote working harder necessarily. Cleaning up after one's self, taking the 30 seconds to clean a dish or take out the trash is not an unreasonable request.
Expecting your significant other to do something nice for you on your birthday, even if you don't have a job is not unreasonable. That's what people who love each other do for one another.
Your partner doesn't respect you. The only time youre happy is when you are out of the house and away from your partner. You are very young. DTMFA. Move on. Go be happy. You deserve it. In spite of what other mefites believe.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 7:38 AM on April 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
We are both in our early/mid 20s and have been living together for several years.
Not sure what you mean by "several." But whether you have been together since you were 18 or 22, do yourself a favor and spend some time being single. You should both do yourselves this favor. For SO many reasons. Among them: you are in your mid-twenties and you are focusing so much of your energy on who takes out the garbage. You have the rest of your life to take out the garbage. What else are you doing with the rest of your life? I don't want to paint the years of your twenties as a time when you must have your priorities sorted-- a lot of people fritter much of that decade away-- but you should be experiencing things! Get out there and live life! Have fun!
posted by BibiRose at 8:40 AM on April 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Not sure what you mean by "several." But whether you have been together since you were 18 or 22, do yourself a favor and spend some time being single. You should both do yourselves this favor. For SO many reasons. Among them: you are in your mid-twenties and you are focusing so much of your energy on who takes out the garbage. You have the rest of your life to take out the garbage. What else are you doing with the rest of your life? I don't want to paint the years of your twenties as a time when you must have your priorities sorted-- a lot of people fritter much of that decade away-- but you should be experiencing things! Get out there and live life! Have fun!
posted by BibiRose at 8:40 AM on April 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
My question is not who is worse, it's what can I do to make it better?
This relationship is not working because the two people in it are not good for each other. This guy, by your own admission, doesn't even want to improve the relationship. He thinks you're selfish, you feel resentful that he's not meeting your needs/expectations, you fight every day.
All relationships are not fixable. You are still asking the wrong questions. It's not what "I" should be doing, but "we".... except it sounds like there is no "we" left here.
posted by sm1tten at 9:25 AM on April 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
This relationship is not working because the two people in it are not good for each other. This guy, by your own admission, doesn't even want to improve the relationship. He thinks you're selfish, you feel resentful that he's not meeting your needs/expectations, you fight every day.
All relationships are not fixable. You are still asking the wrong questions. It's not what "I" should be doing, but "we".... except it sounds like there is no "we" left here.
posted by sm1tten at 9:25 AM on April 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Get out there and live life! Have fun!
Or I guess slog through your twenties this way until something seriously heavy happens in your life, and the resulting stress shows you clear as day that this person is no kind of partner at all.
Or, slog through, crying every night on your way home from work, until you meet someone who reminds you what it feels like to actually LIKE a person. But you can't be with him because by now you've married Captain Garbagepile. And you get to live with that loss forever.
Or then finally shake yourself free of all of this crap only to then find yourself single at 30 realizing you have no idea how to do anything except resuscitate a comatose relationship. You don't know how to date, you don't know how to evaluate partners, you don't know what you even want out of involvement with another person...you just know you're starting to get old but your brain is still 18. So you get to deal with all the cheaters, players, assholes that you should have gotten out of the way 10 years ago.
Uh, I mean...not that I'd know anything about any of this...
posted by like_a_friend at 9:25 AM on April 13, 2013 [27 favorites]
Or, slog through, crying every night on your way home from work, until you meet someone who reminds you what it feels like to actually LIKE a person. But you can't be with him because by now you've married Captain Garbagepile. And you get to live with that loss forever.
Or then finally shake yourself free of all of this crap only to then find yourself single at 30 realizing you have no idea how to do anything except resuscitate a comatose relationship. You don't know how to date, you don't know how to evaluate partners, you don't know what you even want out of involvement with another person...you just know you're starting to get old but your brain is still 18. So you get to deal with all the cheaters, players, assholes that you should have gotten out of the way 10 years ago.
Uh, I mean...not that I'd know anything about any of this...
posted by like_a_friend at 9:25 AM on April 13, 2013 [27 favorites]
Best answer: Or I guess slog through your twenties this way until something seriously heavy happens in your life, and the resulting stress shows you clear as day that this person is no kind of partner at all.
This was something I forgot to even bring up because I had already put so much in to my post. Like_a_friends entire post is gold, but this opening line stuck out to me.
The relationship I watched melt down years past the point of yours eventually ended with suicide attempts, hospitalization, and blew apart soon after that.
I honestly believe you're headed somewhere like that.
I'm reminded of the story of the HMS bounty, and that excellent article which was posted to the blue about it. Basically, the ship was already neglected and damaged, and constantly leaking with the bilge pumps constantly scooping out tons water and barely keeping the ship afloat. And yet the captain sailed right in to a hurricane despite everyone telling him not to, and sunk the ship killing basically everyone. Lots of captains, experienced and relative beginners alike looked at the situation and told him it was a bad idea, hopeless, dangerous, pointless, etc. but he sailed on.
This is kind of what you're doing here. By going on you're forcing it to its conclusion of something shitty and most likely awful to finally slap you in the face hard enough to wake you up.
To quote another poster in a different askmefi thread, This is a dead deer on the side of the road. Most relationships involve both people putting in non contemptuous effort to keep them alive, but in this one the bones and muscle have just been replaced with maggots and rot.
Read like_a_friends post over and over. My friends who broke up are now stuck at around 17-18 in their mid 20s because they fought that quagmire of a war for so long. It completely freezes the process of you growing as a person which will suddenly, jarringly be forced back in to motion when it ends. But you never, ever get that time back.
This is, if nothing else, the most important reason to heed our warning here. I mean fuck. And I'm not even some wise old captain with lots of sailing experience here. But I can see giant red flashing warning signs of things I've glimpsed, or watched sink other people.
posted by emptythought at 9:49 AM on April 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
This was something I forgot to even bring up because I had already put so much in to my post. Like_a_friends entire post is gold, but this opening line stuck out to me.
The relationship I watched melt down years past the point of yours eventually ended with suicide attempts, hospitalization, and blew apart soon after that.
I honestly believe you're headed somewhere like that.
I'm reminded of the story of the HMS bounty, and that excellent article which was posted to the blue about it. Basically, the ship was already neglected and damaged, and constantly leaking with the bilge pumps constantly scooping out tons water and barely keeping the ship afloat. And yet the captain sailed right in to a hurricane despite everyone telling him not to, and sunk the ship killing basically everyone. Lots of captains, experienced and relative beginners alike looked at the situation and told him it was a bad idea, hopeless, dangerous, pointless, etc. but he sailed on.
This is kind of what you're doing here. By going on you're forcing it to its conclusion of something shitty and most likely awful to finally slap you in the face hard enough to wake you up.
To quote another poster in a different askmefi thread, This is a dead deer on the side of the road. Most relationships involve both people putting in non contemptuous effort to keep them alive, but in this one the bones and muscle have just been replaced with maggots and rot.
Read like_a_friends post over and over. My friends who broke up are now stuck at around 17-18 in their mid 20s because they fought that quagmire of a war for so long. It completely freezes the process of you growing as a person which will suddenly, jarringly be forced back in to motion when it ends. But you never, ever get that time back.
This is, if nothing else, the most important reason to heed our warning here. I mean fuck. And I'm not even some wise old captain with lots of sailing experience here. But I can see giant red flashing warning signs of things I've glimpsed, or watched sink other people.
posted by emptythought at 9:49 AM on April 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
Maybe it is time to have a Come To Jesus talk with your partner. A chance to hear what is making him unhappy, without arguing, and weighing for yourself whether you care to fight over it, try to fix it or just walk away from it.
Personally, I can understand why your partner isn't happy about the chores in the house. It is a considerate thing to do to take on more chores if you are home more and the other person is carrying more weight in other ways. It is about finding a balance and sharing the load equally in some way if you can.
I once had a room mate that didn't have to work, her dad paid her bills, and I was working my ass off to pay my share. I'd come home, tired and with no energy to do anything except eat and sleep before working the next day. I would resent her very much when I'd walk in the door and she'd be on the couch in her PJs, eating a huge bowl of cereal at 6 PM, hadn't left the house all day and the shared spaces were a mess. If she then asked me to take out the trash, I'd be furious with her.
If it were me, I'd feel taken for granted if my boyfriend bugged me about chores after I got home from work, classes, still had homework to do and I was paying all the bills.
If I pay all rent/bills, I work all day, I don't get to do/eat things I want because all my money is going into rent/bills and maybe I don't get to pay off credit card or other debt because of this also--that would be tough but I would do it for someone that I loved, as long as they were really looking for work and not taking advantage of me.
My boyfriend lost his job as a college professor for part of one year due to budget cuts. He looked for work and when he realized he couldn't find a comparable job, he looked for any job. He let me know what his plans were. I paid all bills during this time until he was able to work again. He soon found a job working in a toy store for a lot less and did that while looking for another teaching position. I never felt taken for granted because he communicated with me what he was doing to find a job, acknowledged that I was helping him so much and found many non-monetary ways (extra chores, cute notes, packing me lunch) to show his appreciation.
Yes, looking for work is work, but you also probably aren't doing it for 8 hours a day. You have some time to do something to acknowledge that someone is helping you out. Scooping litter takes a few minutes. Taking trash to the trash can also takes a few minutes. It isn't a huge sacrifice and it sends a message that you appreciate the help he is giving you.
THAT SAID, maybe doing this will ease some tension, maybe it won't fix anything, you need to TALK to your partner.
posted by dottiechang at 12:27 PM on April 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
Personally, I can understand why your partner isn't happy about the chores in the house. It is a considerate thing to do to take on more chores if you are home more and the other person is carrying more weight in other ways. It is about finding a balance and sharing the load equally in some way if you can.
I once had a room mate that didn't have to work, her dad paid her bills, and I was working my ass off to pay my share. I'd come home, tired and with no energy to do anything except eat and sleep before working the next day. I would resent her very much when I'd walk in the door and she'd be on the couch in her PJs, eating a huge bowl of cereal at 6 PM, hadn't left the house all day and the shared spaces were a mess. If she then asked me to take out the trash, I'd be furious with her.
If it were me, I'd feel taken for granted if my boyfriend bugged me about chores after I got home from work, classes, still had homework to do and I was paying all the bills.
If I pay all rent/bills, I work all day, I don't get to do/eat things I want because all my money is going into rent/bills and maybe I don't get to pay off credit card or other debt because of this also--that would be tough but I would do it for someone that I loved, as long as they were really looking for work and not taking advantage of me.
My boyfriend lost his job as a college professor for part of one year due to budget cuts. He looked for work and when he realized he couldn't find a comparable job, he looked for any job. He let me know what his plans were. I paid all bills during this time until he was able to work again. He soon found a job working in a toy store for a lot less and did that while looking for another teaching position. I never felt taken for granted because he communicated with me what he was doing to find a job, acknowledged that I was helping him so much and found many non-monetary ways (extra chores, cute notes, packing me lunch) to show his appreciation.
Yes, looking for work is work, but you also probably aren't doing it for 8 hours a day. You have some time to do something to acknowledge that someone is helping you out. Scooping litter takes a few minutes. Taking trash to the trash can also takes a few minutes. It isn't a huge sacrifice and it sends a message that you appreciate the help he is giving you.
THAT SAID, maybe doing this will ease some tension, maybe it won't fix anything, you need to TALK to your partner.
posted by dottiechang at 12:27 PM on April 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
I try to tell him I want to fix things, but he just says, "No, you don't want to fix things, you just care about you."This is the thing I can't see how to move past. If something were to make him stop saying or feeling that, you'd have a better chance of improving things. As it is I think you're at a dead end: both of you are scoring points and doing one-up-manship and I can't see what you have of value together that's worth saving.
posted by glasseyes at 2:00 PM on April 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I realize that you've marked this as resolved, but if you're still reading this, I would like to get some clarification on an issue you mentioned:
When you say that you do most of the chores, do you mean that you do the majority of the general cleaning (vacuuming, window washing, etc.) or do you mean that you have to clean up after him?
I ask because I can kind of see how the person who is home more of the time might do more of the general cleaning (regardless of gender), but if you're expected to clean up all of his little messes as if he was a five-year-old just because he has a job and you're looking for work, that would be an entirely different matter.
I have a philosophy: I will clean, but I won't clean up after someone. I would give you advice in that spirit, but I'm not sure if that's your situation.
posted by Shouraku at 2:19 PM on April 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
When you say that you do most of the chores, do you mean that you do the majority of the general cleaning (vacuuming, window washing, etc.) or do you mean that you have to clean up after him?
I ask because I can kind of see how the person who is home more of the time might do more of the general cleaning (regardless of gender), but if you're expected to clean up all of his little messes as if he was a five-year-old just because he has a job and you're looking for work, that would be an entirely different matter.
I have a philosophy: I will clean, but I won't clean up after someone. I would give you advice in that spirit, but I'm not sure if that's your situation.
posted by Shouraku at 2:19 PM on April 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
In past questions the OP has stated that she does about 90% of the chores. That's quite a bit of work altogether, especially when combined with job hunting. I don't know why everyone is assuming she's sitting on the couch eating cereal and ordering her boyfriend around when he comes home from work, just because she didn't state outright how much she does.
That said, maybe communication is the problem. But it sounds like the problem is much more that she and her boyfriend jumped into a commitment before they had a chance to become self-sufficient, and now they're both confused and resentful. But being the stay-at-home person does not mean that you're not supposed to ever go out or get sick or ask for a little help.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:32 PM on April 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
That said, maybe communication is the problem. But it sounds like the problem is much more that she and her boyfriend jumped into a commitment before they had a chance to become self-sufficient, and now they're both confused and resentful. But being the stay-at-home person does not mean that you're not supposed to ever go out or get sick or ask for a little help.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:32 PM on April 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
I try to tell him I want to fix things, but he just says, "No, you don't want to fix things, you just care about you."
Listen to him when he says this. He's the only one who can really tell you how to save your relationship. Granted its not very constructive of him to criticize you in those terms, but if thats all he's giving you then thats where you have to start. Ask him straight up "How have I been selfish or inconsiderate?" If he gives you a legitimate answer its not likely to be fun listening, but you have to not respond defensively and hear him out so you'll know how to act according to what he needs.
posted by anonop at 9:16 PM on April 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Listen to him when he says this. He's the only one who can really tell you how to save your relationship. Granted its not very constructive of him to criticize you in those terms, but if thats all he's giving you then thats where you have to start. Ask him straight up "How have I been selfish or inconsiderate?" If he gives you a legitimate answer its not likely to be fun listening, but you have to not respond defensively and hear him out so you'll know how to act according to what he needs.
posted by anonop at 9:16 PM on April 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
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As for the birthday thing, I wonder if he knew what your expectations were. My guy seems to need these things to be spelled out. I mean, we literally have had conversations where I will say something like 'It sure would be nice to out for dinner on my birthday' and then days later, he'll be like 'wait a minute, what you're really saying is, you want *me* to take you, right?' He himself is not a big birthday celebrator so he truly doesn't know. If you have not had a conversation with him about what your expectations are, this would be the time.
posted by JoannaC at 6:44 PM on April 12, 2013 [1 favorite]