How to prevent a refinery from opening up in the middle of town
September 7, 2005 11:45 PM Subscribe
So I found out They are wanting to build an Ethanol refinery 3 blocks from my mother's home....
This neighborhood is primarily cookie-cutter homes built after WWII and there are a lot of old folks and newlywed couples living there. Four blocks from this refinery site is one of the biggest elementary schools in the city (~50K residents total). Obviously, this seems like a Very Bad Idea™. The argument is that there used to be a small oil refinery there 60 years ago and no one complained about the smell. They also wanted to build it near the grain silos and railroad tracks. Also note that this state has a ton of empty land, so space is not the issue. The city is also excited about this because it will bring jobs to the town. However, those jobs are for chemists, botanists, and the like. There really aren't any universities that focus in that here in the state, and most students are desperate to leave anyway.
I've been reading a bit about alternative fuels, and I've seen that Ethanol takes as much (if not more) energy to refine than it actually provides. What kind of hard evidence can I find against Ethanol refineries and present it to the city? What can an average citizen do to try and prevent this massive polluter to enter city limits? Has anyone succeeded against the Corn Lobbyists? Am I too late?
Or should I just pack my mom up and move her to an apartment in a neighboring town?
This neighborhood is primarily cookie-cutter homes built after WWII and there are a lot of old folks and newlywed couples living there. Four blocks from this refinery site is one of the biggest elementary schools in the city (~50K residents total). Obviously, this seems like a Very Bad Idea™. The argument is that there used to be a small oil refinery there 60 years ago and no one complained about the smell. They also wanted to build it near the grain silos and railroad tracks. Also note that this state has a ton of empty land, so space is not the issue. The city is also excited about this because it will bring jobs to the town. However, those jobs are for chemists, botanists, and the like. There really aren't any universities that focus in that here in the state, and most students are desperate to leave anyway.
I've been reading a bit about alternative fuels, and I've seen that Ethanol takes as much (if not more) energy to refine than it actually provides. What kind of hard evidence can I find against Ethanol refineries and present it to the city? What can an average citizen do to try and prevent this massive polluter to enter city limits? Has anyone succeeded against the Corn Lobbyists? Am I too late?
Or should I just pack my mom up and move her to an apartment in a neighboring town?
The city is also excited about this because it will bring jobs to the town. However, those jobs are for chemists, botanists, and the like. There really aren't any universities that focus in that here in the state, and most students are desperate to leave anyway.
Then this is a good thing surely? It will bring salaried educated employees into the state, where they will then spend their salaries and will also address migration from the state. Plus it might help to address global warming.
Sorry if this doesn't answer your question directly but the question itself seems to be based on false premises. Don't quite know how your planning system works but I can tell you that nimbyism has won the day in many renewable energy related plant applications in the UK. You could look into whether it needs permission under state law and whether this has already been granted, if not start campaigning.
posted by biffa at 2:18 AM on September 8, 2005
Then this is a good thing surely? It will bring salaried educated employees into the state, where they will then spend their salaries and will also address migration from the state. Plus it might help to address global warming.
Sorry if this doesn't answer your question directly but the question itself seems to be based on false premises. Don't quite know how your planning system works but I can tell you that nimbyism has won the day in many renewable energy related plant applications in the UK. You could look into whether it needs permission under state law and whether this has already been granted, if not start campaigning.
posted by biffa at 2:18 AM on September 8, 2005
delmoi writes "It won't smell any worse then a brewery, would you complain about that?"
It'll stink like the back alley behind a bar. Big ethanol plant near South Bend IN can be detected by nose for miles; the stench of stale alcohol is hard not to notice. I would be concerned about the odor.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:20 AM on September 8, 2005
It'll stink like the back alley behind a bar. Big ethanol plant near South Bend IN can be detected by nose for miles; the stench of stale alcohol is hard not to notice. I would be concerned about the odor.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:20 AM on September 8, 2005
It's likely that this refinery project cannot proceed until the land where this thing will be placed is rezoned or some sort of special use permit is issued. Contact your local government zoning official, and the zoning board of appeals (which often issues these permits) to see what the progress is. Find out when their meetings are, and organize a group (a LARGE group) of neighbors and affected residents to attend all of them. Little old ladies are great for this. You can even make up a name, a website, some fliers, etc. It's not outrageous that you don't want a big refinery in your backyard. Just be reasonable and vocal. Don't let things erupt into shouting matches and name-calling, or you'll all look like jerks.
If they can't get the zoning from the locals, it won't go in that location. And find out if your zoning board is elected or appointed. If they're appointed, also stay in touch with the elected official who appoints them, to make sure s/he knows that you will remember any adverse decisions at election time.
posted by MrZero at 6:44 AM on September 8, 2005
If they can't get the zoning from the locals, it won't go in that location. And find out if your zoning board is elected or appointed. If they're appointed, also stay in touch with the elected official who appoints them, to make sure s/he knows that you will remember any adverse decisions at election time.
posted by MrZero at 6:44 AM on September 8, 2005
...ethanol production yeilds about 1.3 units of energy for every unit put in, depending on a lot of variables.
delmoi, unless you can point me to a reference that says otherwize, I believe you have the numbers flipped. Everything I've seen indicates that ethanol production costs 1.3 times the energy that is available from running an IC engine on it. Ethanol's only benefits are a reduction in PM10 production (maybe) and possibly a closed CO2 loop.
posted by bonehead at 7:57 AM on September 8, 2005
delmoi, unless you can point me to a reference that says otherwize, I believe you have the numbers flipped. Everything I've seen indicates that ethanol production costs 1.3 times the energy that is available from running an IC engine on it. Ethanol's only benefits are a reduction in PM10 production (maybe) and possibly a closed CO2 loop.
posted by bonehead at 7:57 AM on September 8, 2005
Shapouri's most recent analysis, which the USDA published in 2004, comes to the exact opposite conclusion of Patzek's: Ethanol, he said, has a positive energy balance, containing 67 percent more energy than is used to manufacture it.
From an article that discusses the claim from the UC Berkley professor who claims ethanol is a waste. Also, Brazil has been a heavy producer and consumer of both ethanol and biodiesel for a while now, there might be some material out there worth reading about experiences there although I haven't run across any particular articles.
posted by mikeh at 8:16 AM on September 8, 2005
From an article that discusses the claim from the UC Berkley professor who claims ethanol is a waste. Also, Brazil has been a heavy producer and consumer of both ethanol and biodiesel for a while now, there might be some material out there worth reading about experiences there although I haven't run across any particular articles.
posted by mikeh at 8:16 AM on September 8, 2005
You won't get universities locating where students can't get gainful employment, ergo the position your town is in. Just something to consider if you want to see those universities pop up.
I think presenting an argument that ethnol is environmentally unfriendly / wasteful will have little effect, since I believe a majority of the population (or at least the people in power on city council) are with me on this... if it doesn't directly effect me or others in the city it's just not important. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out the obvious. On matters of the heart you will find plenty of people who simply don't care at all, or, worse than that, are opposed to your viewpoint and might actually find your reasons against such development as pros for it. I know I wouldn't care if that ethanol plant was going to use 10,000 gallons of fuel to make 1 cup of output if it had no direct impact on me. That's what you will be facing at city council.
You'll get further with someone like myself by proving that this plant would make the city smell, disrupt traffic, damage highways (from more trucking), pollute drinking water (different from environmentally unfriendly as it shows a real direct impact, not a an imagined one), disrupt local business, not pay its fair share of taxes, etc.
It's up to you but the last time I heard an argument like that against a road in my town (specifically that it would kill a frog habitat) the person was laughed at and ignored, and the road promptly built. (On that note the same argument was used against another road and it wasn't built, but that was mostly because the city was too broke to do it and the excuse was one of many that came in handy).
posted by shepd at 11:39 AM on September 8, 2005
I think presenting an argument that ethnol is environmentally unfriendly / wasteful will have little effect, since I believe a majority of the population (or at least the people in power on city council) are with me on this... if it doesn't directly effect me or others in the city it's just not important. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out the obvious. On matters of the heart you will find plenty of people who simply don't care at all, or, worse than that, are opposed to your viewpoint and might actually find your reasons against such development as pros for it. I know I wouldn't care if that ethanol plant was going to use 10,000 gallons of fuel to make 1 cup of output if it had no direct impact on me. That's what you will be facing at city council.
You'll get further with someone like myself by proving that this plant would make the city smell, disrupt traffic, damage highways (from more trucking), pollute drinking water (different from environmentally unfriendly as it shows a real direct impact, not a an imagined one), disrupt local business, not pay its fair share of taxes, etc.
It's up to you but the last time I heard an argument like that against a road in my town (specifically that it would kill a frog habitat) the person was laughed at and ignored, and the road promptly built. (On that note the same argument was used against another road and it wasn't built, but that was mostly because the city was too broke to do it and the excuse was one of many that came in handy).
posted by shepd at 11:39 AM on September 8, 2005
MrZero writes "It's likely that this refinery project cannot proceed until the land where this thing will be placed is rezoned or some sort of special use permit is issued."
An oil refinery was there 60 years ago so it is probably already zoned for heavy industrial use. For the city to lower that zoning would cost them money as they would be reducing the value of the land.
posted by Mitheral at 4:32 PM on September 8, 2005
An oil refinery was there 60 years ago so it is probably already zoned for heavy industrial use. For the city to lower that zoning would cost them money as they would be reducing the value of the land.
posted by Mitheral at 4:32 PM on September 8, 2005
(In fact, I'm not sure if it will smell at all)
I lived not too far from an ethanol plant for several years. Some people I talked to thought it smelled like baking bread, but there were many complaints. (I thought it was much more unpleasant, like sour beer.) It also made my nose & throat burn; I was constantly sick from the time they opened until I moved away. Turns out that our plant was putting out high levels of pollutants, including carbon monoxide & VOCs.
posted by belladonna at 4:56 PM on September 8, 2005
I lived not too far from an ethanol plant for several years. Some people I talked to thought it smelled like baking bread, but there were many complaints. (I thought it was much more unpleasant, like sour beer.) It also made my nose & throat burn; I was constantly sick from the time they opened until I moved away. Turns out that our plant was putting out high levels of pollutants, including carbon monoxide & VOCs.
posted by belladonna at 4:56 PM on September 8, 2005
One of the current problems with high gas prices is our lack of refinery capacity. Googled opinion pieces.
posted by clgregor at 7:40 AM on September 9, 2005
posted by clgregor at 7:40 AM on September 9, 2005
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It won't smell any worse then a brewery, would you complain about that? (In fact, I'm not sure if it will smell at all
(all you do is brew liquor, then boil the alcohol out at a temperature low enough such that the water does not also boil. You don't need any extra chemicals)
posted by delmoi at 12:41 AM on September 8, 2005