Reporting a quack

September 7, 2005 4:16 PM

My Mom's chiropractor is using a device, the Toftness Radiation Detector (more here), that was outlawed by the FDA in 1984 as totally useless. If I decide to report him to the state, what agency would be appropriate? Or should I go straight to the FDA? Moreover, if my Mom swears he's helping her despite his quackery, should I even bother reporting him at all?

I went to this guy a number of times in high school (after the 1984 ban went into effect), and I always wondered what the heck that stupid thing was. I can't believe he's been getting away with this for so long. He does other more 'normal' procedures as well, but this thing seems to be the focus of his practice.

posted by schoolgirl report to health & fitness (32 comments total)

The decision isn't yours to make. Inform your mother and let her decide. She's a big girl, she can decide what to do with her kooky doctor. This guy isn't harming anybody, least of all your mother, so there's no reason you should be intervene. And just because the FDA decides a device or medicine doesn't help in clinical trials doesn't mean it's useless. (Though in this case, it probably really is useless). The point is, if it works for your mother then leave well enough alone.
posted by nixerman at 4:25 PM on September 7, 2005

This guy isn't harming anybody, least of all your mother, so there's no reason you should be intervene.

If your mother has a serious, underlying problem, then using an ineffective, quack remedy is in fact harming her.

It's widely known that the placebo effect can reduce pain and the perception of physical and mental pain. And a lot of people strongly believe that spinal adjustments by chiropractors do help them (the cited device is supposed to help decide which adjustments are "necessary").

Has your mother had a diagnosis done of her situation by a real doctor? In other words, do you know if she is suffering from (say) cancer or (on the other extreme) simply has intermittent low back pain? If she hasn't seen a doctor, do you think reporting the current situation would be more or less likely to result in her going to a real doctor?
posted by WestCoaster at 4:48 PM on September 7, 2005

Point taken, nixerman. But let's leave my Mom out of it for the sake of argument. What would you do if you were the patient and later discovered the story behind the device?

I suppose this is a classic problem with alternative medicines -- assuming chiropractic is still considered as such. The techniques may not be medically or logically sound, but if they work so be it. Still, it just bothers me that this guy is making money, and lots of it, using this thing.
posted by schoolgirl report at 4:49 PM on September 7, 2005

WestCoaster, as far as I know my mother doesn't have any major malady. She's not one to avoid going to a doctor, so I don't think she's relying exclusively on the chiro to treat a more serious medical condition. I believe she's merely got back and joint pain -- it runs in the family. At this point I think she's just been going for so long that she feels she needs to keep doing so to manage things. Which is exactly what chiropractors thrive on, of course. So to address your point, I don't believe he's actually harming her physically, but it is something I should clear up with her.
posted by schoolgirl report at 4:53 PM on September 7, 2005

See pragmatic fallacy.
posted by madman at 4:53 PM on September 7, 2005

I should note that I'm coming at this more from an "I'm outraged at his blatant quackery!" point of view, not a "my poor Mom!" point of view (don't tell her I said that).
posted by schoolgirl report at 4:56 PM on September 7, 2005

God, I hate Chiropractors. Is that Ok to say here?

I hate them with the red hot hate of a 1000 suns. There, that's more like it. I guess suns hate, right?

Seriously, the local Better Business Bureau is your first stop. Lodge a complaint. Anyone can do it. The BBB will investigate. If it finds the complaint to have weight, the BBB official may even follow up with the proper credential boards in an effort to "clean the local business pool", so to speak. In my experience, if you can get the right guy at the BBB, you can spearhead a crusade. I've personally been responsible for taking down my fair share of quacks, scam artists, and general capitalist predators.
posted by thanotopsis at 4:58 PM on September 7, 2005 [1 favorite]

Honestly, thanotopsis, I hate them too. Hence my desire to bust this guy if at all possible. I didn't realize the BBB would (or could) take matters that far, that's good to know, thanks.
posted by schoolgirl report at 5:03 PM on September 7, 2005

Doctors can use whatever they want, FDA approval or no, at least from an FDA standpoint. If it is totally worthless or harmful it might be malpractice in which case the state medical board, or chiropractic board might want to know. I am prejudiced against chiropractors! OK, now that we have established that, they are quacks, for the most part, and this device is just more evidence that your mom's chiropractor is as big a quack as any of them.
posted by caddis at 5:07 PM on September 7, 2005

I didn't realize the BBB would (or could) take matters that far, that's good to know, thanks.

As I mentioned above, you've got to find the right guy at the BBB. I've been lucky, and have about a 80/20 ratio for caring/not-caring BBB representatives (I commonly seek out and squash internet-based scams, so I've dealt with a variety of BBBs). The charter of the BBB is to track complaints against a business so that wise customers can properly see if there've been any problems in the past. Some BBB reps take that to mean that's their only duty. Most will take that to mean that only researched and responsible complaints should properly be lodged against a business.
posted by thanotopsis at 5:36 PM on September 7, 2005

I have had two different friends in two different states who were going to a chiropractor for back pain that turned out to be cancer. At least the second one suspected something and helped that friend get screened but by that time it was too late.

Oh yeah, both died.

I have nothing against chiropractic but back pain ain't always about back pain.
posted by konolia at 5:40 PM on September 7, 2005

State-level attorneys general (and their underlings) can also be a good venue for consumer complaint issues, and if nothing else, they might be able to point you in the right direction.
posted by katieinshoes at 6:27 PM on September 7, 2005

outlawed by the FDA in 1984

What exactly is meant by "outlawed?" The link says the device "was outlawed by the FDA as completely worthless in 1984."
Not exactly clear.
posted by anathema at 6:43 PM on September 7, 2005

It seems pretty clear to me... the FDA recognised that it was just a tool for pushing quackery and outlawed it -- not because it was harmful, but because it was being billed as something that it was not (i.e. an effective treatment.)
posted by Rhomboid at 6:54 PM on September 7, 2005

It means the FDA took away their right to "market" the device. It does not make the device illegal.
posted by caddis at 7:05 PM on September 7, 2005

From my second link: "In 1984, after winning a lengthy court battle initiated by the FDA, the Justice Department ordered chiropractors who still possessed a Toftness device to return it." This is what leads me to believe use of the device is itself prohibited, but I haven't delved much further into the subject.
posted by schoolgirl report at 7:13 PM on September 7, 2005

If they only took away their right to market the device then why did they force every quack who had bought one to return it, as one of the links said?
posted by Rhomboid at 7:15 PM on September 7, 2005

More Googling reveals this:

"On January 18, 1982, United States District Judge Robert W. Warren issued an order in United States v. An Article of Device..."Toftness Radiation Detector, "Nos. 75-C-478 @ 75-C-479 (WD Wis.), permanently prohibiting any and all use of the Toftness Radiation Detector ("TRD"). That order was subsequently affirmed by the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals on April 4, 1984 and on October 9, 1984, the United States Supreme Court declined to hear the case."

I don't have access to Lexis or Westlaw, so I can't dig up the text of the case or any subsequent activity.
posted by schoolgirl report at 7:20 PM on September 7, 2005

A search for "Toftness" on the FDA site came up empty. Looks like there was some litigation in the 80s brought by the US against the makers of the device: United States v. An Article of Device . . . Toftness Radiation Detector 731 F.2d 1253 (7th Cir. 1984).
posted by anathema at 7:21 PM on September 7, 2005

any and all use

Damn, that's broad. What about manufacture and distribution? I wonder what the consumer protection division of the AG's office would say if you walked in with a copy of the injunction?
posted by anathema at 7:26 PM on September 7, 2005

You should report the individual to the New Hampshire Board of Chiropractic Examiners, or whatever state he practices in if not NH.

Type "[state name] chiropractic license" into Google and hit "I'm Feeling Lucky," it'll take you to the right website.

You'll probably need to include a copy of the writ or injunction or whatever it's called, that you cited; as well as the errant chiro's name, address, and a description of the use he makes of the malfelicitous hardware.
posted by ikkyu2 at 7:51 PM on September 7, 2005

Unfortunately, the New Hampshire Board of Chiropractic Examiners has no web site.
Here are their rules, and if you contact them @
New Hampshire Board of Chiropractic Examiners
Health and Welfare Building
6 Hazen Drive
Concord, NH 03301-6527
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
They will be happy to help. State examiners live for stuff like this, it gives their lives meaning.

If your mom doesn't live in New Hampshire, here's a list of all the states.
posted by Floydd at 8:08 PM on September 7, 2005

nixerman: And just because the FDA decides a device or medicine doesn't help in clinical trials doesn't mean it's useless.

Are you sure? What, then, does it mean?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:17 PM on September 7, 2005

Reports of (suspected) professional misconduct should go to the New Hampshire Board of Chiropractic Examiners, which doesn't have a website. If it's not New Hampshire, the Board of Chiropractic Examiners in the state where he practices. A directory of the state boards with contact information is available from the Federation of Chiropractic Licensing Boards.
posted by dilettante at 8:24 PM on September 7, 2005

The bummer is, there are truly amazing chiros out there. A good one, upon seeing / feeling what is wrong can push some stuff to show you where some bone should be, and help you figure out moving those muscles to get it there.

That isn't what we have here - one of the (far too many) ones who give the rest a bad name. fuck them. no, I am not one.

IMHO, you should: Threaten publicity unless they refund the money you/mom paid, then anonymously make it public anyway.
posted by SpookyFish at 9:26 PM on September 7, 2005

wouldn't that be like reporting an astrologer to NASA?
posted by b1tr0t at 9:48 PM on September 7, 2005

The bummer is, there are truly amazing chiros out there. A good one, upon seeing / feeling what is wrong can push some stuff to show you where some bone should be, and help you figure out moving those muscles to get it there.

Just so you know, and yes I am starting to feel gleeful every time I say so but, there is absolutely positively no scientific evidence to support that statement. There isn't even a consensus definition of "subluxation" among chiropractors (not to be confused with the fairly common-sense form used by say orthopedic surgeons). Any association between chiropractic manipulation and human anatomy/physiology continue to be dubious at best.
posted by drpynchon at 9:52 PM on September 7, 2005

What's this back-bender's name and address? Does he have a web site?
posted by pracowity at 1:16 AM on September 8, 2005

Just so you know, there is probably nothing you will be able to do. They are invincible as long as people like nixerman make bullshit excuses for their bullshit treatments.

"Hey guys it's not hurting anyone unless they actually have something wrong with them like cancer in which case oh well sucks for them"

I would contact the FDA Center for Devices and Radiological Health directly at 1-800-638-2041.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:04 AM on September 8, 2005

Pracowity, I'm not sure I feel comfortable outing him by name here, but I can tell you his clinic is one of the three based in Concord NH and it doesn't have a website that I can find. Been practicing for many years, quite successfully.

Thanks for all the pointers to the NH Board of Chiropractics, that sounds like the best first step. Though I suppose I could let the Concord Monitor (local paper) have a crack at him first, make sure the issue is made public.
posted by schoolgirl report at 7:28 AM on September 8, 2005

After some time spent working with state legislators and doing campaign work which brought me into contact with several chiropractors, it is clear to me that the ONLY reason the entire field of Chiropractic "medicine" has not been banned outright and relegated to the dustbin of Medical History is that they form a very powerful and well-financed political lobby.
For this reason I would be dubious of any help offered by a regulatory board formed by members of the profession. Just go directly to the AG's office in your state, or contact your US Senator for direction to the applicable GOVERNMENTAL body responsible for enforcement.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 11:01 AM on September 8, 2005

I'll just post something briefly — and not altogether on-point — to say that although were you to have asked me five months ago what my opinion of chiropractors were, I'd've said something as deragatory as those in this thread, I have been seeing one off and on since mid-May with splendid results. The trick is finding someone who's adopted an extremely medical, physical therapy-oriented perspective. I lucked out, m'self.
posted by WCityMike at 12:05 PM on September 8, 2005