Supplements and friends
March 10, 2013 2:54 PM Subscribe
What to do in the face of a friend's exhortations to take nutritional supplements?
Hello Mefites, I need some advice in dealing with a friend’s exhortations to take nutritional supplements.
Friend X came to stay at my house this weekend. In general it has gone well. She is however, very attached to certain ideas about health, supplements and nutrition. I am not especially well informed about nutrition. I have heard that one should try to eat a balanced diet and that it may be the case due to circumstances that one is deficient in certain nutrients – in which case supplements might be a good idea, but I am not inclined to take them willy-nilly. I have heard that one can also take too much of certain things. I myself am generally healthy.
Friend X frequently recommends different nutritional products on the basis that they can help one’s mental agility and general and physical wellbeing. Although I am sceptical I have not really challenged her on these claims in the past, partly because I am not especially well-informed. I can’t really debate friend X on these issues in a very scientific way, citing specific studies etc, but I don’t want to take supplements at random for problems that I don’t even know about.
This weekend we have had two conversations about supplements. The first was on Saturday. This time I decided to express my scepticism. She told me that I should try certain supplements as they would help increase my mental agility. She told me that many people in her home country have tried them with positive results. I tried to explain that I don’t want to go just on anecdotal evidence on these matters. The matter dropped eventually.
After dinner this evening we had another debate. She told me that everyone was deficient in Omega 3 and vitamin C and that I should start taking it. (She also mentions other internet products that are for sale.) She told me to try some tonight and see if I felt better in the morning. I said no, this wasn’t a scientific test and this wouldn’t really mean anything as a test even if I did feel better. She said the science was settled already and I should just try them and see how I feel. (Friend X knows about placebo effects and controlled experiments but thinks I should just try it out anyway.) She wouldn’t let it drop and I got a bit snappy. (I did not shout but I said that I would not take any supplements just on her recommendation like that without any evidence that I have a deficiency, and wish she would just drop it.) I went away to another room. A while later she came to see me, evidently a bit hurt at my reaction. (I am usually calm.) She said she had just tried to have a reasonable debate with me. She said she didn’t think she had done anything to provoke me to be angry. I said no - I didn’t either.
Actually I find it rude to be told to take supplements like this, I wish I had said that now (although I’m not sure she would agree or understand). Also, deep down I think that friend X is very keen to believe that people are generally deficient in nutrients and have lots of potential that taking extra supplements can unlock. Ever since I have known her she has often talked passionately about the idea of personal optimization through nutrition. I don’t really think that the debate will go anywhere – it looks like neither of us will change our minds and so I would rather not discuss it at all. Deep down I know I am not especially well informed about this stuff either, so I can see that to friend X I must seem pig-headed. Some questions: Am I wrong or right in my view supplements don’t help unless you are deficient in something? What should I say when friend X starts this kind of conversation? Any experience with these sorts of issues and conversations that could be useful? Thanks.
Hello Mefites, I need some advice in dealing with a friend’s exhortations to take nutritional supplements.
Friend X came to stay at my house this weekend. In general it has gone well. She is however, very attached to certain ideas about health, supplements and nutrition. I am not especially well informed about nutrition. I have heard that one should try to eat a balanced diet and that it may be the case due to circumstances that one is deficient in certain nutrients – in which case supplements might be a good idea, but I am not inclined to take them willy-nilly. I have heard that one can also take too much of certain things. I myself am generally healthy.
Friend X frequently recommends different nutritional products on the basis that they can help one’s mental agility and general and physical wellbeing. Although I am sceptical I have not really challenged her on these claims in the past, partly because I am not especially well-informed. I can’t really debate friend X on these issues in a very scientific way, citing specific studies etc, but I don’t want to take supplements at random for problems that I don’t even know about.
This weekend we have had two conversations about supplements. The first was on Saturday. This time I decided to express my scepticism. She told me that I should try certain supplements as they would help increase my mental agility. She told me that many people in her home country have tried them with positive results. I tried to explain that I don’t want to go just on anecdotal evidence on these matters. The matter dropped eventually.
After dinner this evening we had another debate. She told me that everyone was deficient in Omega 3 and vitamin C and that I should start taking it. (She also mentions other internet products that are for sale.) She told me to try some tonight and see if I felt better in the morning. I said no, this wasn’t a scientific test and this wouldn’t really mean anything as a test even if I did feel better. She said the science was settled already and I should just try them and see how I feel. (Friend X knows about placebo effects and controlled experiments but thinks I should just try it out anyway.) She wouldn’t let it drop and I got a bit snappy. (I did not shout but I said that I would not take any supplements just on her recommendation like that without any evidence that I have a deficiency, and wish she would just drop it.) I went away to another room. A while later she came to see me, evidently a bit hurt at my reaction. (I am usually calm.) She said she had just tried to have a reasonable debate with me. She said she didn’t think she had done anything to provoke me to be angry. I said no - I didn’t either.
Actually I find it rude to be told to take supplements like this, I wish I had said that now (although I’m not sure she would agree or understand). Also, deep down I think that friend X is very keen to believe that people are generally deficient in nutrients and have lots of potential that taking extra supplements can unlock. Ever since I have known her she has often talked passionately about the idea of personal optimization through nutrition. I don’t really think that the debate will go anywhere – it looks like neither of us will change our minds and so I would rather not discuss it at all. Deep down I know I am not especially well informed about this stuff either, so I can see that to friend X I must seem pig-headed. Some questions: Am I wrong or right in my view supplements don’t help unless you are deficient in something? What should I say when friend X starts this kind of conversation? Any experience with these sorts of issues and conversations that could be useful? Thanks.
Your friend is unreasonable and pushy. You are right that all nutrients have a point of no net benefit and beyond that some actively cause harm. From time to time you will encounter proselytizers of various sorts: religious, ethical, dietary, sexual, etc. You should feel comfortable issuing a single refusal and thereafter ignoring the person until he or she changes the subject. If somebody is repeatedly pushy about these sorts of things, consider dratically limiting the time you spend with them.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 3:02 PM on March 10, 2013
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 3:02 PM on March 10, 2013
"Hey, I appreciate your interest in my health, but I am uncomfortable with where these conversations about health supplements go between us and don't really want to talk about it anymore with you. I'll definitely be taking your input under advisement, but please know that this topic of conversation is now off limits with me, okay?"
When she protests, reiterate, "I respect your opinion, and I respect your input, but I am no longer interested in talking about this with you. If you value our friendship in the way I do, you'll let this drop."
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 3:02 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
When she protests, reiterate, "I respect your opinion, and I respect your input, but I am no longer interested in talking about this with you. If you value our friendship in the way I do, you'll let this drop."
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 3:02 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Do it anyway" is not a good way for her to deal with your skepticism, nor personal health, so I recommend not having these discussions. If you need an escape valve because she simply won't drop it, try "Huh, I'll have to look into it. If you have any pointers to the 'settled science', I'd be interested to read them."
Don't worry about appearing pig-headed, you're just being rational about your health. This is nothing to be ashamed of, and being plain-spoken is not the same as "angry," so don't let her bait you about "U MAD BRO?" just because you spoke your mind.
posted by rhizome at 3:05 PM on March 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
Don't worry about appearing pig-headed, you're just being rational about your health. This is nothing to be ashamed of, and being plain-spoken is not the same as "angry," so don't let her bait you about "U MAD BRO?" just because you spoke your mind.
posted by rhizome at 3:05 PM on March 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
I had a spine injury and had surgery at one of the top spine centers in the US. I had a bone transplant and asked my surgeon whether I should take calcium supplements. He said I could if it would make me feel more confident but that I really don't need them if I eat a balanced diet.
My GP has told me something similar. A multi-vitamin is fine to take but a balanced diet is just as good.
I agree that it is rude to keep pursuing it after you said you're not interested in talking about it. It's a matter of personal choice. Just tell her you have to agree to disagree and you want to talk about something else. No one likes getting badgered about stuff like that.
As you mentioned, a deficiency is a different matter and I'm sure a physician would prescribe them if needed.
posted by dottiechang at 3:05 PM on March 10, 2013
My GP has told me something similar. A multi-vitamin is fine to take but a balanced diet is just as good.
I agree that it is rude to keep pursuing it after you said you're not interested in talking about it. It's a matter of personal choice. Just tell her you have to agree to disagree and you want to talk about something else. No one likes getting badgered about stuff like that.
As you mentioned, a deficiency is a different matter and I'm sure a physician would prescribe them if needed.
posted by dottiechang at 3:05 PM on March 10, 2013
Am I wrong or right in my view supplements don’t help unless you are deficient in something?
You already said she thought that "everyone was deficient in Omega 3 and vitamin C," and that she thinks one dose will make you feel the effects literally overnight. She is not going to respond to scientific refutations.
It sounds to me like Friend X is kinda desperate to validate her own choices by convincing other people to share them. (Though I also wonder whether she's selling them, perhaps in an MLM scheme.) That's not a thing you can talk her down from.
What should I say when friend X starts this kind of conversation?
Tell her once, at the outset, "X, I'm not going to have this conversation with you anymore, either the part where you try to get me to take supplements or the part where I try to convince you that they're not as helpful as you think. It'll be like that second Highlander movie that no one talks about." Make that last reference something she'll understand but is still lightly humorous, like how no one talks about "Cry-Baby" around Johnny Depp or how Republicans don't invite George W. Bush to their conventions.
Then, if she brings it up again or wants to discuss what you just told her, you say, "X, I've taken your advice into account, and I've carefully considered my nutritional and dietary needs. Thank you for caring and offering your assistance." Then continue on as if that part of the conversation (her bringing up supplements, your canned reply) did not happen at all. If she presses, repeat the canned reply. Repeat as many times as it takes her to get the hint that you are just not going to discuss this any more.
posted by Etrigan at 3:18 PM on March 10, 2013 [7 favorites]
You already said she thought that "everyone was deficient in Omega 3 and vitamin C," and that she thinks one dose will make you feel the effects literally overnight. She is not going to respond to scientific refutations.
It sounds to me like Friend X is kinda desperate to validate her own choices by convincing other people to share them. (Though I also wonder whether she's selling them, perhaps in an MLM scheme.) That's not a thing you can talk her down from.
What should I say when friend X starts this kind of conversation?
Tell her once, at the outset, "X, I'm not going to have this conversation with you anymore, either the part where you try to get me to take supplements or the part where I try to convince you that they're not as helpful as you think. It'll be like that second Highlander movie that no one talks about." Make that last reference something she'll understand but is still lightly humorous, like how no one talks about "Cry-Baby" around Johnny Depp or how Republicans don't invite George W. Bush to their conventions.
Then, if she brings it up again or wants to discuss what you just told her, you say, "X, I've taken your advice into account, and I've carefully considered my nutritional and dietary needs. Thank you for caring and offering your assistance." Then continue on as if that part of the conversation (her bringing up supplements, your canned reply) did not happen at all. If she presses, repeat the canned reply. Repeat as many times as it takes her to get the hint that you are just not going to discuss this any more.
posted by Etrigan at 3:18 PM on March 10, 2013 [7 favorites]
You've expressed yourself quite well here. I would probably just try to avoid the subject and hope that she does, too, but if it comes up again: "I don’t want to take supplements at random for problems that I don’t even know about... I find it rude to be told to take supplements like this... and I don’t really think that the debate will go anywhere – it looks like neither of us will change our minds and so I would rather not discuss it at all."
posted by juliplease at 3:24 PM on March 10, 2013
posted by juliplease at 3:24 PM on March 10, 2013
Also, is there any chance she is trying to sell you something?
posted by juliplease at 3:24 PM on March 10, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by juliplease at 3:24 PM on March 10, 2013 [6 favorites]
What should I say when friend X starts this kind of conversation?
Tell her to feel free to make a list of vitamins and nutrients she recommends, and you'll take it with you to discuss with your doctor at your annual checkup.
posted by jacalata at 3:24 PM on March 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
Tell her to feel free to make a list of vitamins and nutrients she recommends, and you'll take it with you to discuss with your doctor at your annual checkup.
posted by jacalata at 3:24 PM on March 10, 2013 [5 favorites]
A lot of people believe things (like certain supplements will do such and such) on blind faith because they'd like it to be true. Most people recommend supplements because the other person has complained of a certain problem. For ex when my grandfather started having problems with his memory, my mom and aunt tried to get him to take certain supplements. [He also eats a crappy diet, and they tried to correct that as well.] But just pushing something when you don't have a complained-of malady is definitely excessive. I was raised around a vitamin and supplement culture, and as an adult, I am much more skeptical. But I've also experienced problems that I didn't realize were a deficiency until my doctor figured it out (anemia, etc.).
I'm going to assume you aren't having any problems with your mental capacity -- or exhibiting any signs. Because of that, I agree that it's likely she's trying to sell you something. It sounds like a sales pitch rather than an effort to help you.
If she brings it up: "I appreciate that you're concerned about my health. I'm currently feeling healthy, well, and fit." And change the subject.
posted by DoubleLune at 3:28 PM on March 10, 2013
I'm going to assume you aren't having any problems with your mental capacity -- or exhibiting any signs. Because of that, I agree that it's likely she's trying to sell you something. It sounds like a sales pitch rather than an effort to help you.
If she brings it up: "I appreciate that you're concerned about my health. I'm currently feeling healthy, well, and fit." And change the subject.
posted by DoubleLune at 3:28 PM on March 10, 2013
What should I say when friend X starts this kind of conversation?
"I'm really happy that you've found things that work for you, and that you're feeling good. I'm doing what works for me, and I feel good about my choices. I'll Let you know if I have any questions about the supplements you like."
I think that if you want her to stop pushing, then the key is to avoid any hint of an argument, anything like "I think you're wrong about the science." I mean, sure, you can engage her in that type of argument, but that's basically an invitation to her to try to persuade you. Approaching it like, "That's cool for you, I'll let you know if I'm interested" lets you express that you're not interested right now without inviting her to argue with you. If she tries to keep pushing, you can say something like, "Yeah, like I said, I'm happy with my health choices right now. I get that you're really enthusiastic about this topic, but I'd like to talk about something else: how about we go do XYZ tourist thing I told you about?"
posted by Meg_Murry at 3:30 PM on March 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
"I'm really happy that you've found things that work for you, and that you're feeling good. I'm doing what works for me, and I feel good about my choices. I'll Let you know if I have any questions about the supplements you like."
I think that if you want her to stop pushing, then the key is to avoid any hint of an argument, anything like "I think you're wrong about the science." I mean, sure, you can engage her in that type of argument, but that's basically an invitation to her to try to persuade you. Approaching it like, "That's cool for you, I'll let you know if I'm interested" lets you express that you're not interested right now without inviting her to argue with you. If she tries to keep pushing, you can say something like, "Yeah, like I said, I'm happy with my health choices right now. I get that you're really enthusiastic about this topic, but I'd like to talk about something else: how about we go do XYZ tourist thing I told you about?"
posted by Meg_Murry at 3:30 PM on March 10, 2013 [3 favorites]
Another possible script for a reply: "thanks, I will keep your advice in mind if and when I become concerned about (whatever). " Then change the subject.
Repeat as necessary.
posted by rpfields at 3:31 PM on March 10, 2013
Repeat as necessary.
posted by rpfields at 3:31 PM on March 10, 2013
Also, is there any chance she is trying to sell you something?
Yeah, this.
I would just say something like look, thanks for your interest, but I'm not really interested in having all of our conversations center around supplements. We're friends for a lot of other xyz reasons, and can we please focus on those things?
If she really only wants to push supplements on you, I'd limit contact.
posted by loveyallaround at 3:46 PM on March 10, 2013
Yeah, this.
I would just say something like look, thanks for your interest, but I'm not really interested in having all of our conversations center around supplements. We're friends for a lot of other xyz reasons, and can we please focus on those things?
If she really only wants to push supplements on you, I'd limit contact.
posted by loveyallaround at 3:46 PM on March 10, 2013
I'd start with a polite, "I appreciate your concern, but my diet is fine and I'd rather not spend my whole morning taking pills, thanks."
Then I'd move to just cheerfully saying "Done with this subject!" every time she brings it up.
If she doesn't get it, why not writing a little song? Do a wee dance, "I don't wanna, talk about this, we are done here, enough about this." My mum keeps trying to get me to try various diets, and while I love her dearly, I get tired of deflecting her, so I just sing at her till she cracks up.
(My singing voice is not so great.)
It all comes down to how close you guys are, I suppose.
posted by Jilder at 3:53 PM on March 10, 2013
Then I'd move to just cheerfully saying "Done with this subject!" every time she brings it up.
If she doesn't get it, why not writing a little song? Do a wee dance, "I don't wanna, talk about this, we are done here, enough about this." My mum keeps trying to get me to try various diets, and while I love her dearly, I get tired of deflecting her, so I just sing at her till she cracks up.
(My singing voice is not so great.)
It all comes down to how close you guys are, I suppose.
posted by Jilder at 3:53 PM on March 10, 2013
I thought this infographic was cool. Of course, looking at that you would think, "I should take Vitamin D." But then you read this. From everything I have read, if you eat a well-balanced diet you'll be fine.
posted by theuninvitedguest at 3:56 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by theuninvitedguest at 3:56 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Americans have the most expensive urine in the world" is a popular anti-supplement catchphrase.
posted by ceribus peribus at 4:00 PM on March 10, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by ceribus peribus at 4:00 PM on March 10, 2013 [6 favorites]
Just one other point: this woman clearly wants to be heard and acknowledged when it comes to her interest in nutritional supplements. If you insult her in any way or suggest that her approach to dietary supplements is a) hogwash or b) too much of a hassle to adopt yourself, she will literally commit the rest of your friendship to trying to prove you wrong. At the very most, say, "That's very interesting. I will touch base with my doctor to see if that would be a good fit for my diet." It sounds like she doesn't understand why you're not a bandwagon jumper in the way she is, and therein lies the problem.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:05 PM on March 10, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:05 PM on March 10, 2013 [6 favorites]
Unless your friend is a medical professional --- and more than that, unless she's a medical professional WITH A DETAILED KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR PERSONAL MEDICAL HISTORY --- then she doesn't know what she's talking about.
The polite response:
"Thank you for your concern, but I'm not interested."
If that doesn't work, try:
"No thank you, I'd rather not discuss this again."
And the next level:
"Please drop it, I've told you I'm not interested."
And finally:
No response, just turn and walk away, every time.
posted by easily confused at 4:08 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
The polite response:
"Thank you for your concern, but I'm not interested."
If that doesn't work, try:
"No thank you, I'd rather not discuss this again."
And the next level:
"Please drop it, I've told you I'm not interested."
And finally:
No response, just turn and walk away, every time.
posted by easily confused at 4:08 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would not recommend engaging with her on this. With some people, arguing with them about their beliefs regarding diet/nutrition/supplements is like arguing with them about religion. No matter what you say, you are not going to shake her faith in supplements.
I would just shut her down next time and not let her continue. "That's great that works for you, but I don't need any medical or nutrition advice, thanks."
Insisting you take certain supplements and refusing to drop the subject is really out of line, in my opinion. Decisions about your healthcare are not her business at all.
Her insistence that you take them, and pointing you towards certain products sounds like she's trying to sell you something.
posted by inertia at 4:13 PM on March 10, 2013
I would just shut her down next time and not let her continue. "That's great that works for you, but I don't need any medical or nutrition advice, thanks."
Insisting you take certain supplements and refusing to drop the subject is really out of line, in my opinion. Decisions about your healthcare are not her business at all.
Her insistence that you take them, and pointing you towards certain products sounds like she's trying to sell you something.
posted by inertia at 4:13 PM on March 10, 2013
I am not especially well informed about nutrition.
I have not really challenged her on these claims in the past, partly because I am not especially well-informed.
Deep down I know I am not especially well informed about this stuff
Why not get informed?
Not suggesting you go looking on the internet for information, but is there any particular reason you wouldn't want to make a point of speaking to your doctor about this during your next appointment? If nothing else, telling her you'll speak to your doctor about it will hopefully be enough to shut her up.
posted by cali59 at 4:17 PM on March 10, 2013
I have not really challenged her on these claims in the past, partly because I am not especially well-informed.
Deep down I know I am not especially well informed about this stuff
Why not get informed?
Not suggesting you go looking on the internet for information, but is there any particular reason you wouldn't want to make a point of speaking to your doctor about this during your next appointment? If nothing else, telling her you'll speak to your doctor about it will hopefully be enough to shut her up.
posted by cali59 at 4:17 PM on March 10, 2013
I'm a big fan of getting your nutrients from a healthy diet. However, depending on your standards of measurement (the "official" ones tend to be pretty broad, accounting only for the bare minimums not to leave you blatantly susceptible to disease) ... many people in the U.S. do NOT eat a completely "balanced diet." Therein lies the problem.
I don't "preach it" to most acquaintances or friends, but if you are close to me or live with me for any length of time, you are likely to get some random advice and suggestions - simply due to the fact that I blather a lot, and if something is fascinating/important to me, I with probably blather on about it. So if I'm saying "oh wow, did you know most child-bearing aged women in the U.S. are borderline or iodine deficient? I wonder what that effects... blah blah blah" I'm not really TRYING to be obnoxious... it's just something I care a lot about. You can roll your eyes and tell me to shut up, and I generally will though, which seems to be a bit of tact your friend is missing.
I am most certainly not trying to "sell" anyone anything. I would never ask someone to do or take something without some decent amount of scientific backup. But I have relatives who eat utterly horrible diets, suffer digestive problems that are definitely demonstrated in study after study to be exacerbated by this type of diet, and yes, they will still roll their eyes if you point out the relationship (while still wanting you to listen to their complaints). It's extremely frustrating to me, although I know it's their right and prerogative to make their own choices. Not saying this is necessarily the case in your scenario - and frankly your friend's info sounds a bit off-base - but I think that when something is so important or interesting to someone, it's really hard for them to comprehend how you can possibly not care. Especially if you have little knowledge of the subject in general, and/or your health and well-being are visibly suffering (yours doesn't seem to be).
What I would recommend is that, (A) you do get a little more read-up on nutrition, both in general and in your own life, to ensure that you are indeed getting a balanced diet; and (B) make it clear to your friend that while you appreciate her concern, you want to do your own research and make your own choices, and you are not interested in any more of her suggestions. Then change the subject.
She brings up a vitamin? "Yeah, no, *laugh,* not this again Sally. You want to go watch a movie?"
posted by celtalitha at 4:37 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't "preach it" to most acquaintances or friends, but if you are close to me or live with me for any length of time, you are likely to get some random advice and suggestions - simply due to the fact that I blather a lot, and if something is fascinating/important to me, I with probably blather on about it. So if I'm saying "oh wow, did you know most child-bearing aged women in the U.S. are borderline or iodine deficient? I wonder what that effects... blah blah blah" I'm not really TRYING to be obnoxious... it's just something I care a lot about. You can roll your eyes and tell me to shut up, and I generally will though, which seems to be a bit of tact your friend is missing.
I am most certainly not trying to "sell" anyone anything. I would never ask someone to do or take something without some decent amount of scientific backup. But I have relatives who eat utterly horrible diets, suffer digestive problems that are definitely demonstrated in study after study to be exacerbated by this type of diet, and yes, they will still roll their eyes if you point out the relationship (while still wanting you to listen to their complaints). It's extremely frustrating to me, although I know it's their right and prerogative to make their own choices. Not saying this is necessarily the case in your scenario - and frankly your friend's info sounds a bit off-base - but I think that when something is so important or interesting to someone, it's really hard for them to comprehend how you can possibly not care. Especially if you have little knowledge of the subject in general, and/or your health and well-being are visibly suffering (yours doesn't seem to be).
What I would recommend is that, (A) you do get a little more read-up on nutrition, both in general and in your own life, to ensure that you are indeed getting a balanced diet; and (B) make it clear to your friend that while you appreciate her concern, you want to do your own research and make your own choices, and you are not interested in any more of her suggestions. Then change the subject.
She brings up a vitamin? "Yeah, no, *laugh,* not this again Sally. You want to go watch a movie?"
posted by celtalitha at 4:37 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
So since you both seem to feel pretty strongly about these discussions, I think there is some extra miscommunication going on.
I think maybe your friend worries on some level that she is making an expensive mistake by taking so many supplements. So the more people she can convince to also do so, the more secure she can feel that she is doing something 'normal'. And if she can surround herself with people who agree that they feel better for taking supplements, she can feel vindicated that they are really making a difference.
And I think maybe you view her comments as suggesting you are not good enough as you are. If she is saying that supplements improve your brain, it's a small step to wondering why she thinks your brain is not good enough already. I would find it offensive too.
So if you can reassure her that you are impressed by her commitment to her own health, and that you can see how fit and healthy she has become lately (you don't have to say it's because of nutrition), that might help. And then you can tell her that you feel insulted by her suggesting you aren't fit or healthy or intelligent enough without supplements, and then use one of the scripts people above gave you to tell her to back off.
posted by lollusc at 5:12 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think maybe your friend worries on some level that she is making an expensive mistake by taking so many supplements. So the more people she can convince to also do so, the more secure she can feel that she is doing something 'normal'. And if she can surround herself with people who agree that they feel better for taking supplements, she can feel vindicated that they are really making a difference.
And I think maybe you view her comments as suggesting you are not good enough as you are. If she is saying that supplements improve your brain, it's a small step to wondering why she thinks your brain is not good enough already. I would find it offensive too.
So if you can reassure her that you are impressed by her commitment to her own health, and that you can see how fit and healthy she has become lately (you don't have to say it's because of nutrition), that might help. And then you can tell her that you feel insulted by her suggesting you aren't fit or healthy or intelligent enough without supplements, and then use one of the scripts people above gave you to tell her to back off.
posted by lollusc at 5:12 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
Unless you are in danger, when someone is empathically trying to get you to do something or speak about something you have made clear you are not interested in, that person is being rude.
I don't think it's so much that you don't know what to say, but rather you're unsure of your boundaries. You have to ask yourself "Is it OK that this person is subjecting me to all this?"
It's the boundary that's tricky. If the answer is no, the words will follow.
posted by Feel the beat of the rhythm of the night at 5:37 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's so much that you don't know what to say, but rather you're unsure of your boundaries. You have to ask yourself "Is it OK that this person is subjecting me to all this?"
It's the boundary that's tricky. If the answer is no, the words will follow.
posted by Feel the beat of the rhythm of the night at 5:37 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
You could do what I do: tell such people that you eat a balanced healthy diet and you believe that's good enough because 1) you feel fine, and 2) humans evolved over a very long period of time to make due with a diet that is much less balanced and nutritional than your diet, so logic and common sense would seem to indicate that a modern balanced and nutritious diet is more than enough to provide good health. You could also point out that the main function of supplements is not to provide health but to make money.
posted by Dansaman at 6:04 PM on March 10, 2013
posted by Dansaman at 6:04 PM on March 10, 2013
I get this kind of thing a lot (multiple medical issues which I am not shy about discussing), and I generally use the, "Well, I'll take it up with my doctor" response. I sometimes follow this up with an explanation that some nutritional supplements are contraindicated for people who have certain medical conditions or take specific medications (omega 3s happen to be one of those).
And I think you were justified in being angry with her, because I find it rude for someone to insist upon having a debate when the other person isn't interested in debating.
posted by camyram at 7:08 PM on March 10, 2013
And I think you were justified in being angry with her, because I find it rude for someone to insist upon having a debate when the other person isn't interested in debating.
posted by camyram at 7:08 PM on March 10, 2013
You know what? I have no problem telling pushy people that if I am pushed my automatic response is "no." You have my permission to go and do likewise. ;-)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:36 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:36 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
She obviously feels very strongly about this, and is unlikely to be talked out of it by anything that you say to her. In fact, the opposite seems to be happening, where she sees your counter-arguments as an invitation to try to convince you that she's right. I think that a simple "no thanks, not for me" might shut down the conversation without inviting her to try to talk you into something.
posted by Ragged Richard at 7:37 PM on March 10, 2013
posted by Ragged Richard at 7:37 PM on March 10, 2013
Well yeah, you are right that you don't need extra vitamins unless you are deficient. Some people are at risk, like elderly can't always absorb B12, or people who don't get a lot of sun might need vitamin D (if their doctor tests it and it's low), etc.
But the statement that all people are low in vitamin C is absurd, because if we were all low in vitamin C, we'd have scurvy. So I would just say, "you know, I am not an expert, but I find it hard to take you seriously when you throw out blanket statements like that with nothing to back you up. I feel fine, but if I don't, I will go to the doctor and get tested."
Then throw out some goofy fact like "did you know cowboys ate raw onions to prevent scurvy?" and make her some colcannon because it has potatoes and onions and cabbage and there's your vitamin c and antioxidants in a tasty dish with some butter on it.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:53 PM on March 10, 2013
But the statement that all people are low in vitamin C is absurd, because if we were all low in vitamin C, we'd have scurvy. So I would just say, "you know, I am not an expert, but I find it hard to take you seriously when you throw out blanket statements like that with nothing to back you up. I feel fine, but if I don't, I will go to the doctor and get tested."
Then throw out some goofy fact like "did you know cowboys ate raw onions to prevent scurvy?" and make her some colcannon because it has potatoes and onions and cabbage and there's your vitamin c and antioxidants in a tasty dish with some butter on it.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:53 PM on March 10, 2013
Your friend is just visiting for the weekend? Meaning you don't live with this person, are not married to them, they're not your mom, etc?
Just say, "hm, that sounds interesting. I'll have to pick some up next time I'm at the drugstore..." then change the subject.
If your friend has them with her and wants you to take one, once, if it were me, I'd probably do it. They're not poison, after all.
I would then never mention vitamins or supplements around this person ever again. If your friend brings it up, I would just say something vaguely positive and, again, change the subject.
People who are into faddish things like this often really get off on evangelizing to other people, debating about it, etc. It's easier to just agree in a vague way and not even get them started.
posted by Sara C. at 8:12 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just say, "hm, that sounds interesting. I'll have to pick some up next time I'm at the drugstore..." then change the subject.
If your friend has them with her and wants you to take one, once, if it were me, I'd probably do it. They're not poison, after all.
I would then never mention vitamins or supplements around this person ever again. If your friend brings it up, I would just say something vaguely positive and, again, change the subject.
People who are into faddish things like this often really get off on evangelizing to other people, debating about it, etc. It's easier to just agree in a vague way and not even get them started.
posted by Sara C. at 8:12 PM on March 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry everyone here seems on your side to one degree or another, because honestly, you sound like you are nitpicking.
Why can't you just change the subject rather than, "debate"?
I fear the answer is that you are one of those people who feverently wants to believe the status quo, rather than someone who wants to gently "speed bump" over a topic with a friend you don't agree about.
Seriously. If you didn't care about this topic one way or the other, but genuinely like your friend, you could have easily shut this down (laugh about it and move on) rather than take up the sword while trying to make your point.
It seems you think your friend is annoying.
The supplements thing is a non-issue. The way you are picking on your friend about her well-meaning persuasion is a HUGE issue.
Your friend did not mean you harm. Find a kinder way to deflect the conversation if you truly like this person.
posted by jbenben at 11:24 PM on March 10, 2013
Why can't you just change the subject rather than, "debate"?
I fear the answer is that you are one of those people who feverently wants to believe the status quo, rather than someone who wants to gently "speed bump" over a topic with a friend you don't agree about.
Seriously. If you didn't care about this topic one way or the other, but genuinely like your friend, you could have easily shut this down (laugh about it and move on) rather than take up the sword while trying to make your point.
It seems you think your friend is annoying.
The supplements thing is a non-issue. The way you are picking on your friend about her well-meaning persuasion is a HUGE issue.
Your friend did not mean you harm. Find a kinder way to deflect the conversation if you truly like this person.
posted by jbenben at 11:24 PM on March 10, 2013
It is worth noting that not everybody is really aware of what a "balanced diet" is. The number of women I've known who speak in amazement of the improvements in their nails or digestion or whatever while they're taking prenatal vitamins indicates to me that there are plenty of people with deficiencies (although vitamin D is the one that's best documented).
That is, however, completely different from getting proselitized by a house guest. You're in the right, and the trick is just to find the right communication style/response to neutralize this issue before it ruins your friendship. Tips about ways to recognize her good intentions while expressing your desire to end the topic are on the right track.
posted by acm at 7:11 AM on March 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
That is, however, completely different from getting proselitized by a house guest. You're in the right, and the trick is just to find the right communication style/response to neutralize this issue before it ruins your friendship. Tips about ways to recognize her good intentions while expressing your desire to end the topic are on the right track.
posted by acm at 7:11 AM on March 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Thanks but I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
If that doesn't work, look her in the eye and tell her that your religious beliefs prohibit using supplements and if she had a few hours, you would love to tell her all about your beliefs.
posted by myselfasme at 11:07 AM on March 11, 2013
If that doesn't work, look her in the eye and tell her that your religious beliefs prohibit using supplements and if she had a few hours, you would love to tell her all about your beliefs.
posted by myselfasme at 11:07 AM on March 11, 2013
Response by poster: I should say that I don't think that friend X was trying to sell something, I think she had good intentions here and it seems to me that nutrition is simply close to her heart. From my point of view it rings true that simultanously being annoyed at the exhortations AND trying to argue against them using my half-remembered nutritional knowledge was counterproductive - as many of you pointed out. In future I will try to go calmly with one of your -hey let's not talk about it-scripts if required. Thank you for all of your inputs including the nutritional info.
posted by mister_kaupungister at 12:58 PM on March 12, 2013
posted by mister_kaupungister at 12:58 PM on March 12, 2013
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