Science Fiction without the characters
March 6, 2013 7:51 AM Subscribe
[SciFi Book Filter] I'm basically looking for good science fiction books that have very minimal (or no) character development.
I really enjoyed "Last and First Men" and "Star Maker" by Olaf Stapledon. I'm looking for more interesting science fiction books that focus mostly on big ideas/philosophies/themes and don't really focus on characters. The occasional "scientist" or "inhabitant" is fine but I really dont want to get caught up in people lives etc.
I dont want to give too many restrictions because im interested in all kinds of genres, but future histories with huge timescales are something I'd be interested in. (I already have the Foundation Series). These books also might start getting into big questions ie. what is life, etc. and probably have a philosophy feel. Hopefully that makes sense.
Short Stories are fine but I'd prefer longer books.
I really enjoyed "Last and First Men" and "Star Maker" by Olaf Stapledon. I'm looking for more interesting science fiction books that focus mostly on big ideas/philosophies/themes and don't really focus on characters. The occasional "scientist" or "inhabitant" is fine but I really dont want to get caught up in people lives etc.
I dont want to give too many restrictions because im interested in all kinds of genres, but future histories with huge timescales are something I'd be interested in. (I already have the Foundation Series). These books also might start getting into big questions ie. what is life, etc. and probably have a philosophy feel. Hopefully that makes sense.
Short Stories are fine but I'd prefer longer books.
Stanislaw Lem's His Master's Voice.
posted by lewedswiver at 8:04 AM on March 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by lewedswiver at 8:04 AM on March 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's a while since I read it but I think Peter F. Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga might fit the bill.
posted by mskyle at 8:05 AM on March 6, 2013
posted by mskyle at 8:05 AM on March 6, 2013
Ringworld is a great book but it's not what you're after. It's got characterization out the wazoo. (Which is part of why it's so great.)
You might try Clarke's "Childhood's End".
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:08 AM on March 6, 2013
You might try Clarke's "Childhood's End".
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:08 AM on March 6, 2013
It's got characterization, but I don't think it has any development of that. But, yeah, I guess if you want the characters to be completely secondary, it may not be the best choice.
posted by griphus at 8:10 AM on March 6, 2013
posted by griphus at 8:10 AM on March 6, 2013
Greg Egan's work is often concerned with Big Questions, and he often ignores character development except as it speaks to the Big Questions he is asking at the time.
posted by Etrigan at 8:10 AM on March 6, 2013
posted by Etrigan at 8:10 AM on March 6, 2013
Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space series is pretty lacking in character development. I mean, there are people in it, but they don't really have any personalities, per se, and his focus is definitely on ideas over plot.
posted by something something at 8:20 AM on March 6, 2013
posted by something something at 8:20 AM on March 6, 2013
Anything and everything by A.E. van Vogt. "Slan" is the first book by him most people reach for, but I'd also strongly suggest any of his short story anthologies, as well as "The Weapon Makers" and "The House that Stood Still."
posted by jbickers at 8:20 AM on March 6, 2013
posted by jbickers at 8:20 AM on March 6, 2013
I was also going to suggest Greg Egan.
Diaspora, specifically, I think has "big questions" and "huge timescale" covered.
posted by RobotHero at 8:21 AM on March 6, 2013 [3 favorites]
Diaspora, specifically, I think has "big questions" and "huge timescale" covered.
posted by RobotHero at 8:21 AM on March 6, 2013 [3 favorites]
I also like Lem's Solaris for this. Whatever you made of the film(s), the book does go into quite a few big ideas as well. A lot of the action, though, reflects various things that have occurred in the characters' pasts.
posted by jquinby at 8:22 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jquinby at 8:22 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Seconding Rendezvous with Rama.
posted by usonian at 8:27 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by usonian at 8:27 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
On the one hand, you're in luck! Lots of classic stuff has paper-thin characters who never change, or who might as well be named $SCIENTIST or $ENGINEER.
Egan is mostly a good bet, but some stuff is relatively character-heavy. The main character's characteristics matter a lot in Diaspora, as in Distress (where interpersonal relationships and all their problems are also the key to the universe). Even then it's still pretty clinical, though.
Reynolds I have to disagree with. I might agree that there's not a lot of change, necessarily, but the pictures of characters you get from each book are quite different and add up to a cohesive whole. Even if she hasn't necessarily changed a lot, Volyova at the end is not the same as you understand Volyova in Revelation Space.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:29 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Egan is mostly a good bet, but some stuff is relatively character-heavy. The main character's characteristics matter a lot in Diaspora, as in Distress (where interpersonal relationships and all their problems are also the key to the universe). Even then it's still pretty clinical, though.
Reynolds I have to disagree with. I might agree that there's not a lot of change, necessarily, but the pictures of characters you get from each book are quite different and add up to a cohesive whole. Even if she hasn't necessarily changed a lot, Volyova at the end is not the same as you understand Volyova in Revelation Space.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:29 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Asimov's characters are mostly pretty thin.
posted by musofire at 8:32 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by musofire at 8:32 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
James P. Hogan's books are like that. The Giants trilogy is a good choice: "Inherit the Stars", "The Gentle Giants of Ganymede", "Giant's Star"
I also recommend "Thrice upon a time".
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:34 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
I also recommend "Thrice upon a time".
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:34 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Most of H.G. Well's stuff has very little characterization. The protagonist of The Time Machine doesn't even have a name.
posted by octothorpe at 8:36 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 8:36 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Without disagreeing with ROU_Xenophobe's comment, I think the Alastair Reynolds books (Revelation space, Absolution Gap, Redemption Ark, Chasm City) might be fine for you. Also his House of Suns or Pushing Ice, for grand-sweep space opera.
Charles Stross - Singularity Sky and Iron Sunrise might be fun reads.
Almost anything by Arthur Clarke obviously fits the bill - if you haven't read Rendezvous with Rama, stop now and read it first. Seriously, that defines a whole genre of mysterious visitors.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:41 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Charles Stross - Singularity Sky and Iron Sunrise might be fun reads.
Almost anything by Arthur Clarke obviously fits the bill - if you haven't read Rendezvous with Rama, stop now and read it first. Seriously, that defines a whole genre of mysterious visitors.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:41 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Stand on Zanzibar sounds like what you want. It has a pile of characters ... but they're really just a mechanism for exploring the world of its "future" (I believe it's set in 2010). Read it at least twenty years ago, still think about it ...
posted by philip-random at 8:41 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 8:41 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hah. Somehow I knew you were talking about Olaf Stapledon before I clicked through.
Check out Robert L Forward (Dragon's Egg, etc). He's a scientist who is mostly trying to convey gee-whiz scientific ideas through his writing, so his characters are pretty one-dimensional.
Just to be contrary, I'm going to mention Vernor Vinge's Fire Upon the Deep and sequels. These are concerned with galactic-scale ideas, but they also focus on small-scale relations between individuals, and have well-developed characters. I really enjoyed these books, and I'm impressed at the author's ability to balance macro and micro.
posted by adamrice at 8:43 AM on March 6, 2013 [3 favorites]
Check out Robert L Forward (Dragon's Egg, etc). He's a scientist who is mostly trying to convey gee-whiz scientific ideas through his writing, so his characters are pretty one-dimensional.
Just to be contrary, I'm going to mention Vernor Vinge's Fire Upon the Deep and sequels. These are concerned with galactic-scale ideas, but they also focus on small-scale relations between individuals, and have well-developed characters. I really enjoyed these books, and I'm impressed at the author's ability to balance macro and micro.
posted by adamrice at 8:43 AM on March 6, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'll second Lem's "His Master's Voice" and "Solaris" and wouldadd "Fiasco." There's a bit of character stuff at the start of "Fiasco," but most of it is about the actions of (non-thinking) machines and basically humans attempting to communicate with aliens.
The character stuff at the beginning seems to be an attempt to connect the book to a character from previous works, either Pirx the Pilot or Ijon Tichy. Either way, the history of the man is irrelevant to the plot, so don't let that slow you down.
Also, note that "Solaris" was translated second-hand from a French translation, which in turn was translated from the original Polish. It is generally agreed that Michael Kandel is the best translator of Lem, and "Solaris" is not one of his translations. So what you're getting is an imperfect reflection of the original work.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:16 AM on March 6, 2013
The character stuff at the beginning seems to be an attempt to connect the book to a character from previous works, either Pirx the Pilot or Ijon Tichy. Either way, the history of the man is irrelevant to the plot, so don't let that slow you down.
Also, note that "Solaris" was translated second-hand from a French translation, which in turn was translated from the original Polish. It is generally agreed that Michael Kandel is the best translator of Lem, and "Solaris" is not one of his translations. So what you're getting is an imperfect reflection of the original work.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:16 AM on March 6, 2013
William Hope Hodgson's "The Night Land" is the most thrilling slogs I've ever read. Mostly one character throughout, with an unforgettable voice...but no, not much development per se. Give it a go. Some say to skip the first chapter, but I didn't...in context, the first chapter makes sense but it is daunting. I'll likely be one of those people who rereads it occasionally. Quite a journey.
posted by Infinity_8 at 9:20 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Infinity_8 at 9:20 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Colin Wilson's The Mind Parasites is a good one in this vein: it does have characters, but the hero of the story is phenomenology.
Milorad Pavic's Dictionary of the Khazars, which is written as three crossreferenced encyclopedias, also comes to mind but TBH I found it impenetrable and gimmicky.
Greg Egan definitely hits the "big ideas" note, though his characters aren't nearly as thin as people make them out to be.
posted by ook at 9:22 AM on March 6, 2013
Milorad Pavic's Dictionary of the Khazars, which is written as three crossreferenced encyclopedias, also comes to mind but TBH I found it impenetrable and gimmicky.
Greg Egan definitely hits the "big ideas" note, though his characters aren't nearly as thin as people make them out to be.
posted by ook at 9:22 AM on March 6, 2013
It's been a while since I read it so I could easily be wrong about this, but I seem to remember Brian Herbert's Destination Void being like this. Even though the majority of the story is just folks standing around talking, they have very flimsy personalities, and basically are just mouthpieces for Herbert to bounce around philosophical ideas. This is in direct contrast to Dune, where well-developed characters form the very heart of the story.
posted by MrOlenCanter at 9:26 AM on March 6, 2013
posted by MrOlenCanter at 9:26 AM on March 6, 2013
Seconding Asimov. His characterization is workmanlike but the characters are basically hand puppets with a couple memorable traits, and they don't tend to change or learn anything important. I've only ever read his short stories, never any full novels of his, but I did enjoy the stories.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 9:29 AM on March 6, 2013
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 9:29 AM on March 6, 2013
Came in here to recommend Stapledon; of course that was who you had in mind already.
Can't offer any other recommendations that are quite that on point. If you haven't read Borges, some of his stories are similarly centered on ideas with little attention to particular characters.
And a backhanded recommendation is Robert Charles Wilson, who actually writes a lot of character and plot (very well in fact), but who in terms of theme is the major living interpreter of Stapledon. Check out Spin.
posted by grobstein at 9:40 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Can't offer any other recommendations that are quite that on point. If you haven't read Borges, some of his stories are similarly centered on ideas with little attention to particular characters.
And a backhanded recommendation is Robert Charles Wilson, who actually writes a lot of character and plot (very well in fact), but who in terms of theme is the major living interpreter of Stapledon. Check out Spin.
posted by grobstein at 9:40 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Starship Troopers also has minimal character development, but what it has in its place is not so much big ideas as, instead, hashtag blow shit up.
It's a thrilling read, though!
posted by lewedswiver at 9:43 AM on March 6, 2013
It's a thrilling read, though!
posted by lewedswiver at 9:43 AM on March 6, 2013
There are a couple of Ted Chiang short stories that might fit the bill:
Exhalation (focuses on the character's examination of himself but does so in the service of setting out a 'big idea' rather than character development).
Understand (again, the focus is on changes in the character as the result of a big idea, not character development as such).
If you're interested in Solaris, there is a new translation by Bill Johnston (previously). I don't know how he measures up to Kandel, but it is at least a direct Polish-to-English translation.
posted by inire at 9:53 AM on March 6, 2013
Exhalation (focuses on the character's examination of himself but does so in the service of setting out a 'big idea' rather than character development).
Understand (again, the focus is on changes in the character as the result of a big idea, not character development as such).
If you're interested in Solaris, there is a new translation by Bill Johnston (previously). I don't know how he measures up to Kandel, but it is at least a direct Polish-to-English translation.
posted by inire at 9:53 AM on March 6, 2013
James P. Hogan's books are like that.
True, but it's worth mentioning that after a while the big ideas he was exploring were totes craycray. As in, the reason dino-sours had long necks is that at the time, the Earth was a satellite of Saturn and was tidally locked so that the effective gravity on the dinosaur side was lower. Also Jupiter or Saturn totally horked up Venus a few thousand years ago, which is why it's still hot.
Then there's Voyage to Yesteryear, which manages to combine bonkers physics with bonkers social science.
Which reminds me -- if "endless right-libertarian claptrap" counts as big ideas in your book, L Neil Smith's _The Probability Broach_ is entertaining enough and has fractal-dimensional characters.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:14 AM on March 6, 2013
True, but it's worth mentioning that after a while the big ideas he was exploring were totes craycray. As in, the reason dino-sours had long necks is that at the time, the Earth was a satellite of Saturn and was tidally locked so that the effective gravity on the dinosaur side was lower. Also Jupiter or Saturn totally horked up Venus a few thousand years ago, which is why it's still hot.
Then there's Voyage to Yesteryear, which manages to combine bonkers physics with bonkers social science.
Which reminds me -- if "endless right-libertarian claptrap" counts as big ideas in your book, L Neil Smith's _The Probability Broach_ is entertaining enough and has fractal-dimensional characters.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:14 AM on March 6, 2013
Another recommendation for Rendezvous with Rama. It reads like a transcript of a PBS documentary. (not knocking it, it's one of my favorite SF books ever)
I know you said you'd prefer longer works, not short stories, but you might consider reading some H.P. Lovecraft. His characters usually exist solely to witness the grand cosmic events that occur in the story they're found in, and aside from going mad they don't really "develop" in any way. The stories aren't sci-fi in the strictest sense, but do address some of the themes you mention. At the Mountains of Madness comes to mind as a (longish) story you might enjoy.
posted by aparrish at 10:51 AM on March 6, 2013
I know you said you'd prefer longer works, not short stories, but you might consider reading some H.P. Lovecraft. His characters usually exist solely to witness the grand cosmic events that occur in the story they're found in, and aside from going mad they don't really "develop" in any way. The stories aren't sci-fi in the strictest sense, but do address some of the themes you mention. At the Mountains of Madness comes to mind as a (longish) story you might enjoy.
posted by aparrish at 10:51 AM on March 6, 2013
Not science fiction, but I think Borges' stories (with some notable exceptions) are pretty unconcerned with character. If you're looking for a "philosophy feel," they might be worth checking out.
posted by neroli at 10:55 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by neroli at 10:55 AM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Niven's The Draco Tavern is a collection of very short short stories (mostly vignette length) where he explores the big questions without doing much character development or anything else (which he admits to in the preface). I liked it, but some people are put off by the format.
posted by anaelith at 11:29 AM on March 6, 2013
posted by anaelith at 11:29 AM on March 6, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks everyone...so far these are great and will keep me busy for months. I just read one of the Ted Chiang stories and loved it.
Keep them coming if you have more, and what the heck throw in some short stories too as these seem to be a popular vehicle for this type of writing.
Re: characters, Im not totally against characters or any type of development, I'd just prefer if they were sort of supporting or background elements to the theme.
Addressing some specifics: I really like Ted Chiang; although havent read those stories above; Borges is great. Have read some Arthur Clarke but will definitely check out Rondevous with Rama as that seems to be a popular answer. Also Greg Egan and Stainslaw Lem are tops on the list.
posted by Busmick at 11:37 AM on March 6, 2013
Keep them coming if you have more, and what the heck throw in some short stories too as these seem to be a popular vehicle for this type of writing.
Re: characters, Im not totally against characters or any type of development, I'd just prefer if they were sort of supporting or background elements to the theme.
Addressing some specifics: I really like Ted Chiang; although havent read those stories above; Borges is great. Have read some Arthur Clarke but will definitely check out Rondevous with Rama as that seems to be a popular answer. Also Greg Egan and Stainslaw Lem are tops on the list.
posted by Busmick at 11:37 AM on March 6, 2013
Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) is basically a technical manual on how another planet might be colonised, with bonus side-trips into human longevity, psychology and politics. Lots of characters, but they're mostly there to move the plot along rather than grow as people or whatever.
posted by Happy Dave at 12:00 PM on March 6, 2013
posted by Happy Dave at 12:00 PM on March 6, 2013
Older Michael Crichton books like The Andromeda Strain. His characters are all just cut outs.
posted by fshgrl at 12:48 PM on March 6, 2013
posted by fshgrl at 12:48 PM on March 6, 2013
Nthing Greg Egan, especially his short stories. A lot of people I know consider it a great flaw of his works that his characters are so stiff, but...
Someone up above mentioned Vinge's Fire/Deepness/etc series. He writes them a little static, it's true. The characters do tend to get fleshed out, though. On the other hand, a lot of the time that is to serve for his Big Idea, so, maybe it'll do. (On the other other hand, I'm having a hard time getting through Deepness just because his characters are so very tied to his big idea, and they're all horrible people. All of them.)
posted by vulgar_wheat at 12:53 PM on March 6, 2013
Someone up above mentioned Vinge's Fire/Deepness/etc series. He writes them a little static, it's true. The characters do tend to get fleshed out, though. On the other hand, a lot of the time that is to serve for his Big Idea, so, maybe it'll do. (On the other other hand, I'm having a hard time getting through Deepness just because his characters are so very tied to his big idea, and they're all horrible people. All of them.)
posted by vulgar_wheat at 12:53 PM on March 6, 2013
Joe Haldeman's The Forever War has an interesting narrator who manages to not evolve much personally over the course of a thousand years. This is neat because it was the first time I saw static characterization used to emphasize the shittiness of time travel and PTSD.
posted by spunweb at 1:31 PM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by spunweb at 1:31 PM on March 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
More SF that fits the bill:
Stanislaw Lem, Imaginary Magnitude
Ursula LeGuin, Always Coming Home
Cordwainer Smith, The Rediscovery of Man
It sounds like you might be OK with fantasy / weird tales, so I also suggest ...
Rachel Swirsky, "The Lady Who Plucked Red Flowers Beneath the Queen's Window" (terrific novella available for free online)
Jeff VanderMeer, City of Saints and Madmen (especially "The Hoegbotton Guide to the Early History of Ambergris" and several appendices)
Reza Negarestani, Cyclonopedia
Lord Dunsany, The Complete Pegana
Greg Stafford, King of Sartar
And the latter reminds me of how many RPG sourcebooks do the 'future history' schtick about as readably as Stapledon.
Incidentally, here are some Readlists for a bunch of Borges, Chiang, and Egan.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 6:52 PM on March 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
Stanislaw Lem, Imaginary Magnitude
Ursula LeGuin, Always Coming Home
Cordwainer Smith, The Rediscovery of Man
It sounds like you might be OK with fantasy / weird tales, so I also suggest ...
Rachel Swirsky, "The Lady Who Plucked Red Flowers Beneath the Queen's Window" (terrific novella available for free online)
Jeff VanderMeer, City of Saints and Madmen (especially "The Hoegbotton Guide to the Early History of Ambergris" and several appendices)
Reza Negarestani, Cyclonopedia
Lord Dunsany, The Complete Pegana
Greg Stafford, King of Sartar
And the latter reminds me of how many RPG sourcebooks do the 'future history' schtick about as readably as Stapledon.
Incidentally, here are some Readlists for a bunch of Borges, Chiang, and Egan.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 6:52 PM on March 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh, another one I should've thought of immediately: Doris Lessing's Canopus in Argos series (especially Re: Colonised Planet 5, Shikasta and The Sirian Experiments). A history of earth as seen by observing (and occasionally interfering) elder civilizations.
posted by ook at 6:18 AM on March 7, 2013
posted by ook at 6:18 AM on March 7, 2013
Nthing Asimov, especially the robot short stories (I, Robot, The Rest of the Robots) and novels (Caves of Steel and The Naked Sun).
Invisible Cities by Italo Calvino.
I don't remember much character development in Starship Troopers, but the defense of militarized society and proto-fascism is what stuck with me. Rico goes through boot camp, so there has to be some.
Nthing most of Chiang, maybe excepting The Life Cycle of Software Objects and even that is more big idea than people.
posted by Hactar at 2:20 PM on March 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Invisible Cities by Italo Calvino.
I don't remember much character development in Starship Troopers, but the defense of militarized society and proto-fascism is what stuck with me. Rico goes through boot camp, so there has to be some.
Nthing most of Chiang, maybe excepting The Life Cycle of Software Objects and even that is more big idea than people.
posted by Hactar at 2:20 PM on March 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by griphus at 8:02 AM on March 6, 2013 [3 favorites]