How do I replicate Spanish cafe con leche at a US cafe?

February 23, 2013 8:56 AM

How do I order a Spanish-style cafe con leche at a US espresso bar? I can't seem to get the proportions right. What I'm looking for is a high ratio of espresso to milk, but not too high. The milk should be hot, not frothy at all. Cappucicinos, cafe au laits, and lattes all have too much milk. Today I tried to describe what I wanted and they gave me a "short cappuccino," which was not enough milk, and the milk was foamed instead of flat. A specific name for this drink would be great, if it exists, but what I really want is the exact ordering instructions -- because I find that in most cafes, ordering anything slightly unusual (like an Americano) usually gets very inconsistent results.
posted by yarly to Food & Drink (33 answers total)

Have you tried incrementally increasing the number of shots? For example, at brunch today I had a double latte, which was double the espresso, standard flat milk.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:58 AM on February 23, 2013

Response by poster: How do you order a double latte without increasing the milk amount? I tried to do this at a cafe and they seemed hopelessly confused between a large latte and a double latte. Is a double latte usually the same amount of milk as in a single/small?
posted by yarly at 9:04 AM on February 23, 2013

Flat white?
posted by wingless_angel at 9:05 AM on February 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

If the cafe was confused by a "double latte", maybe order "a latte with an extra shot"?
posted by Betelgeuse at 9:07 AM on February 23, 2013

Try asking for a latte with a 1:1 ratio of espresso to milk.
posted by acidic at 9:09 AM on February 23, 2013

Best answer: At Starbucks I order a short double latte "no froth" to get something like this.

Yes, double is supposed to refer to the number of shots, not the size of the cup (and proportionate amount of milk).
posted by amaire at 9:18 AM on February 23, 2013

Best answer: Maybe a cafe au lait ( 1/2 coffee and 1/2 steamed milk, no foam) with an extra shot of espresso?

Or a cafe au lait made with an americano?

Become a regular at the place that gets it closest. And if you find a place with an approachable, knowledgeable barista, don't be afraid to explain the specifics. It's how you get a drink named after you!
posted by mibo at 9:21 AM on February 23, 2013

How do you order a double latte without increasing the milk amount?

"Take a standard latte mug, double the shots, fill the rest with milk."
posted by DarlingBri at 9:23 AM on February 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Flat white?

You'll get blank stares for that in most of the US, too.

Just specify as best you can: scalded milk, 1:1 or 1:2 ratio.
posted by holgate at 9:50 AM on February 23, 2013

Macchiato
posted by ohmansocute at 9:59 AM on February 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

Best answer: "I'd like a cafe latte with two shots of espresso, but only half the usual amount of milk."

See how that works.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:00 AM on February 23, 2013

Best answer: Ask for a double shot with steamed milk, no foam, or just a touch of foam. You need to figure out what proportion of milk you like, and then order it. (So ask for equal amounts of milk and espresso, or 2/3rds or whatever suits your taste.) Add your own sweetener, if any.

Asking for a latte with equal parts espresso and milk may also get you what you want, but generally, describing what you want is a better bet than trying to find a fancy name that's going to be universally understood.

Source: I am a barista. I can make whatever you want, but you need to be able to tell me what that is.
posted by catatethebird at 10:04 AM on February 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

Depending on where you are, you could order it as a Cuban cafe con leche. You could also ask the barista for latte with an extra shot steamed to 140 (that's right before the milk gets really frisky and frothy at 150). I think part of the problem is that when you're a barista, and you don't fill the cup all the way, customers sometimes yell at you, even if it's your order, so even if you order a latte with an extra shot, you're still gonna get like 10 oz of milk, unless you make it clear that you only want the cup half filled. That's not that huge a thing, once you make it clear you're not going to complain to the manager or whatever for not getting a "full" cup.

I wouldn't recommend doing the "standard latte mug, double shots, fill the rest w. milk" approach, unless there's no line, because the order of making a drink behind the bar is that you steam the milk first, then pull the shots. The shots of espresso "die" really quickly; unless you add them to the milk or a sugary thing (chocolate, a flavor shot, etc) they get bitter. The Youtube link is an ad, but 37s in you can see the shot starting to age, and the crema dissipating. You also don't want the milk to sit too long after it's been steamed since it gets groudy.
posted by spunweb at 10:08 AM on February 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Also, where I work, a double latte or single latte only refers to the number of shots, you still need to choose a cup size to determine how much milk, e.g a small double latte will have less milk than a medium double latte.

A true macchiato might be similar to what you want, but good luck getting one. It should be 3/4 steamed milk, 1/4 foam, with the shots poured over the milk, and never stirred. But the amount of milk will vary wildly, so you still need to specify how much.
posted by catatethebird at 10:13 AM on February 23, 2013

Oh, and one last thing: don't be a snot when you order. It's really frustrating when customers come in and want a specific thing, don't know how to describe it, know its name, or how it's made, and then get mad at you when you try to make something based on their description, and it's incorrect. At least where I worked, if you just came up and explained how this wasn't what you wanted, we remade it, and tried to tweak what we did before to match what your mouth wants. Basic civility gets you pretty far when asking for something not listed on the menu.
posted by spunweb at 10:17 AM on February 23, 2013

In some better coffee bars (I'm thinking specifically of Intelligentsia in Chicago) you can order this as a cortado. Maybe worth a try, though probably not at Starbucks.
posted by devinemissk at 10:18 AM on February 23, 2013

If it helps, lattes are not supposed to have very much foam, which cappuccinos are. So while I agree you're likely to get farther ordering something like "two shots of espresso with equal parts steamed milk, no foam," I'd very definitely stay away from anyone mentally trying to modify a cappuccino.

Also a "true macchiato" is supposed to be a shot of espresso "marked" (that's what "macchiato" means) with a teeny bit of foamed milk; in Italy it's so little milk that they serve it in espresso cups. Some places in the US seem to have reversed the ingredients so that it's a lot of milk marked with a bit of espresso, and I've even seen a few cafes somehow get it confused with a mocha and involve chocolate in some way. Probably best to avoid the term.
posted by jaguar at 10:29 AM on February 23, 2013

Macchiato

There is so much disagreement in the US over what this word means that it's unlikely to be any help at all.
posted by Now there are two. There are two _______. at 10:29 AM on February 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Depending on where you are, you could order it as a Cuban cafe con leche.

Where I'm at, "Cuban" denotes putting sugar on top of the ground coffee in the portafilter before the espresso shot is pulled.
posted by rhizome at 10:38 AM on February 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

Best answer: If you're at a Starbucks, a double tall no foam latte might do the trick.

That's two shots of espresso and somewhere between 8 and 10 oz of steamed milk. No foam = no frothy stuff on top.

If it's still too much milk, double short no foam latte. Short = 8 oz total, so somewhere between 4-6 oz of milk.

Most non-Starbucks places should still understand "double [small] no foam latte." If the small has too much milk, maybe ask for it with an inch of room at the top of the cup?
posted by SugarAndSass at 11:53 AM on February 23, 2013

To follow/clarify jaguar's point above, an espresso macchiato is espresso marked with a scoop of microfoamed milk, and a latte macchiato is a slender glass of microfoamed milk with a shot (usually a ristretto double) dropped through such that it marks the milk and pools in the bottom of the glass.

What you're looking for is a flat white as suggested, or a 'wet' cappuccino as opposed to the drier, foamier dry cap. Unfortunately, this takes a barista who knows what they're doing and cares enough to craft your drink properly, which you won't find at every place that serves espresso.

Your best bet, short of rehashing this thread, is probably to order a traditional espresso macchiato, and ask if you can 'say when' on the amount of milk added. Or to choose the larger of two demitasse cups if asked— the barista will generally pull the same ristretto double and fill the remaining volume with milk.
posted by a halcyon day at 11:58 AM on February 23, 2013

It might help to know your location. Coffee drinks have their own set of regional quirks in the states.

When I go to bougie coffee places in Los Angeles, some let me order my espresso drink based on ozs of milk (one shot + 2 or 4 ozs steamed milk is sort of my ideal). Some places have the aforementioned cortado. Also known as a gibraltar.

A cafe con leche has scalded milk, so I guess order it extra hot? The cortados I get are def not with scalded milk.

However, were I to order a cortado in less of a coffee snob spot, I'd likely get a blank stare. In those cases, usually a macchiato is the closest I can get, but it does have a lot of foam.

Ok, now that I think of it, I only really get what I want when I can order it from a place that has it on the menu. In general, I suspect customers demand lots of foamy milk from baristas and I've found that trying to convince the barista that I don't want that for my own drink doesn't work. I can talk them down, but it's still more milk/foam than I want.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 1:28 PM on February 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I used to get 'cafe con leche' from this place that had not great food but that coffee which was lovely in ways I have found to be irreproducible. And as mentioned one of the secrets was 'scalded' full fat milk (not frothed at all - scalded in a pot on the stove) and sugar in the portafilter. Then more sugar in the milk - it took on this amazing caramel flavor that I can vividly remember. In my experience this is not reproducible (easily) at a coffee shop and a while ago I gave up - when I really really wanted it I'd go to any of a couple 'Spanish' diners and get it there. You can make it pretty easily at home though with a Mokka pot and an eagle eye on the milk.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:13 PM on February 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

It sounds like what you want is a Flat White, though if baristas in your neck of the woods can't handle an Americano, Flat White might be greek to them.

Maybe a cafe au lait ( 1/2 coffee and 1/2 steamed milk, no foam) with an extra shot of espresso?

Oh, man, this should so be a drink. I nominate calling it L'oeil Rouge. (As in, a cafe au lait red eye.)
posted by Sara C. at 3:04 PM on February 23, 2013

You are describing a double macchiato to me. Flat white is not the same thing, at all. I would try (if asking for a double macchiato gives you the wrong results, ie/ foamed milk instead of steamed) to ask for a double-shot espresso with a dash of steamed milk. See how you go with that, and if your barista doesn't know what that is then you are stuck, basically.
posted by goo at 7:03 PM on February 23, 2013

Response by poster: Thanks all - I am going to try to order a short double latte at Starbucks and see what I get ... will also try to order a Gilbralter or Cortado at my local fancy place, but not holding my breath!

And am I crazy, but did someone post a helpful answer linking to a wikipedia article on torrefacto coffee beans that got deleted?
posted by yarly at 7:32 PM on February 23, 2013

And am I crazy, but did someone post a helpful answer linking to a wikipedia article on torrefacto coffee beans that got deleted?

Yes, I think so, because I remember reading the comment. I don't know enough about Spanish coffee beans to be super-helpful, but having drunk a lot of coffee in Spain and Italy, I would very much stand behind the idea that Starbucks and its more-or-less-burnt coffee beans have hijacked a lot of American cafes and their coffee, and that you might be having problems because of that. Most of Europe uses a much lighter roast than Starbucks uses for espresso. You might want to try to scout places that use a lighter roast, or else try cafe au lait at Starbucks (I think they do that?) with their breakfast roast or similarly lightly-roasted beans. Or if you have a Peets or Caribou near you, try them instead for the short double latte you mentioned; their coffee is way less burnt.
posted by jaguar at 7:50 PM on February 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

Yes, Sbux does cafe au lait. It's called a "misto", for no particular reason that I can see. (AFAIK "misto" is not an actual Italian coffee drink.)

This is emphatically not what you're asking for in your question, though it is a tasty beverage. It's just drip coffee with steamed milk instead of the regular room temp milk you'd add at the milk/sugar/etc. station.
posted by Sara C. at 7:59 PM on February 23, 2013

You're talking about ordering at Starbucks? You should have said! You would have got appropriate answers! Just ask for a double shot espresso with a dash of steamed milk. Otherwise they won't know what you're talking about.
posted by goo at 8:07 PM on February 23, 2013

Best answer: And am I crazy, but did someone post a helpful answer linking to a wikipedia article on torrefacto coffee beans that got deleted?

Yeah, that was me. I apparently didn't answer the question as asked. So I'll try again. The closest you can get to replicating a Spanish café con leche at a US espresso bar will be to ask for a double shot of espresso with steamed UHT whole milk using a torrefacto roast espresso in approximately equal proportions.

If you can't get that, and I suspect you can't, I make it at home with a finely ground torrefacto roast coffee (see here) and milk scalded in a pan. That's how they make it at home in Spain, too.
posted by Stewriffic at 6:45 AM on February 24, 2013 [4 favorites]

Sounds like you're describing a cortado. You might not have much luck ordering it by name in the US, but perhaps it could serve as a guide for proportions?
posted by undercoverhuwaaah at 6:50 AM on February 24, 2013

Response by poster: I think the right answer is that this is impossible unless they use torrefacto beans! But perhaps I can at least approximate the milk/coffee ratio with everyone's helpful suggestions.

Now who wants to start a torrefacto coffee trend in the US? I myself have had enough of light roasted pour overs!
posted by yarly at 8:27 AM on February 24, 2013

I bring back torrefacto roasted coffee from wherever I can find it. It's not necessarily just in Spain. I got some at Thanksgiving in Sint Maarten. It's not high brow, just a specific taste.
posted by Stewriffic at 11:32 AM on February 24, 2013