Does Perth have a Compton?
February 13, 2013 1:17 AM Subscribe
Are there any bad parts of Australia that compare with the bad parts of the United States?
Is the scary places there like my library in Eugene with killer spiders?
Is the scary places there like my library in Eugene with killer spiders?
Sorry you mentioned Compton! I guess if your making a connection with gang violence you'd need to consider that Perth is run by bike gangs (who also control the amphetamine trade in Australia), they are based in northern Perth suburbs, Joondalup, Clarkson. Also the Vietnamese triads in Perth, I'm not sure which suburbs though.
posted by Under the Sea at 2:08 AM on February 13, 2013
posted by Under the Sea at 2:08 AM on February 13, 2013
Best answer: It's hard to say - the view we get of Compton etc over here is pretty distorted I would imagine, but my experience, having lived across Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, and Melbourne, is no. We do not have areas that are that bad. We have areas that are bad, but you have to put it into context:
1) Australia has a functioning welfare state, and nothing like the endemic poverty or homelessness the US has.
2) Most guns are illegal to own and difficult to get
3) Gang violence is almost wholly inward focused here. For example there are plenty of shootings in Western Sydney, but they are directed at other gangs, gang members.
4) Drug use is not as widespread nor as high here.
5) Our high poverty neighbourhoods are often low-density, out in the burbs, not in the city.
6) We do not have the racial violence and context that underpins many parts of the US. "Ethnic" enclaves encompass wide varieties of income level, and typically several different first-or-second generation immigrant cultures.
This is not to say everything is hunky dory. There are certainly areas of any state capital (excepting maybe Hobart, lol) that I (32 year old male) would hesitate to go late at night by myself, etc. There are train lines in Sydney I would think twice about catching after 11pm, say. But there are basically no areas I would consider off-limits to myself during the day time.
At night, maybe you're gonna get mugged, and maybe beaten up. Maybe. But not shot or killed.
posted by smoke at 2:35 AM on February 13, 2013 [13 favorites]
1) Australia has a functioning welfare state, and nothing like the endemic poverty or homelessness the US has.
2) Most guns are illegal to own and difficult to get
3) Gang violence is almost wholly inward focused here. For example there are plenty of shootings in Western Sydney, but they are directed at other gangs, gang members.
4) Drug use is not as widespread nor as high here.
5) Our high poverty neighbourhoods are often low-density, out in the burbs, not in the city.
6) We do not have the racial violence and context that underpins many parts of the US. "Ethnic" enclaves encompass wide varieties of income level, and typically several different first-or-second generation immigrant cultures.
This is not to say everything is hunky dory. There are certainly areas of any state capital (excepting maybe Hobart, lol) that I (32 year old male) would hesitate to go late at night by myself, etc. There are train lines in Sydney I would think twice about catching after 11pm, say. But there are basically no areas I would consider off-limits to myself during the day time.
At night, maybe you're gonna get mugged, and maybe beaten up. Maybe. But not shot or killed.
posted by smoke at 2:35 AM on February 13, 2013 [13 favorites]
Due to a much smaller population and less densely populated cities, at least in part, Australia's more 'dangerous' areas in terms of crime are not comparably high in crime, I believe. No doubt someone can provide some stats, but as a Victorian, there are no parts of the state that I would not travel to/walk around alone. I mean, I wouldn't run around unlit areas in the dark, but there are no 'no-go' areas for a small weak white girl like myself. I believe that this is not so in the US?
posted by jojobobo at 2:36 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jojobobo at 2:36 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
This may be some good background reading if you're thinking about crime and guns in Australia as a whole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Australia (with info therein on crime in each state/territory)
One other thing to keep in mind is that Australia has a higher "urbanization" rate than the US - which means that at least 40% or more of *everyone* lives in the capitals of each of the states/territories. In Western Australia, about 75% of the people live in Perth; Western Australia is the size of the United States east of the Mississippi. Perth really is the only "big" city out there.
posted by mdonley at 2:37 AM on February 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Australia (with info therein on crime in each state/territory)
One other thing to keep in mind is that Australia has a higher "urbanization" rate than the US - which means that at least 40% or more of *everyone* lives in the capitals of each of the states/territories. In Western Australia, about 75% of the people live in Perth; Western Australia is the size of the United States east of the Mississippi. Perth really is the only "big" city out there.
posted by mdonley at 2:37 AM on February 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
But also to keep in mind- there are still hardly any people in Perth, relative to even Australian east coast cities, let alone a US city. So a really 'urban' population can still feel quite quiet and sparsely populated. There just aren't that many people In Australia. But I think your question clearly needs clarification. What on earth does the second sentence mean?
posted by jojobobo at 2:40 AM on February 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by jojobobo at 2:40 AM on February 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Lots of poverty, crime and third world deprivation in neglected indigenous areas unfortunately.
posted by dydecker at 2:41 AM on February 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by dydecker at 2:41 AM on February 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I'm American, living permanently in Australia. The short answer is no.
There are still good and bad neighborhoods, but its relative. Nothing here is as bad/scary as some places in the States...
posted by jrobin276 at 2:48 AM on February 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
There are still good and bad neighborhoods, but its relative. Nothing here is as bad/scary as some places in the States...
posted by jrobin276 at 2:48 AM on February 13, 2013 [3 favorites]
Just jumping back in to point out that Dydecker is absolutely correct: It's worth noting though that the population of all those rural indigenous areas combined would be less than Compton's 100 000, and that, as terrible as those areas are, much of the violence, drug and alcohol abuse, etc is focused towards other residents of the communities.
These places are remote: you don't end up somewhere like Palm Island through accident or oversight - the vast majority of Australians never get anywhere near somewhere like that. I've travelled reasonably widely in Western QLD, and even I never really saw anything like what you can read about in some govt reports etc, though I certainly saw communities in pretty bad shape.
posted by smoke at 2:49 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
These places are remote: you don't end up somewhere like Palm Island through accident or oversight - the vast majority of Australians never get anywhere near somewhere like that. I've travelled reasonably widely in Western QLD, and even I never really saw anything like what you can read about in some govt reports etc, though I certainly saw communities in pretty bad shape.
posted by smoke at 2:49 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Due to a much smaller population and less densely populated cities
Smaller population-- maybe. But less densely populated cities? Hardly. Comparing population-weighted densities (and keeping in mind that 12,000 per square mile = 46 per hectare), Australian cities are comparable to US cities. Melbourne is about as dense as Chicago, and Sydney is as dense as San Francisco or LA. Only New York stands above.
Sources: 1, 2
posted by alexei at 4:52 AM on February 13, 2013
Smaller population-- maybe. But less densely populated cities? Hardly. Comparing population-weighted densities (and keeping in mind that 12,000 per square mile = 46 per hectare), Australian cities are comparable to US cities. Melbourne is about as dense as Chicago, and Sydney is as dense as San Francisco or LA. Only New York stands above.
Sources: 1, 2
posted by alexei at 4:52 AM on February 13, 2013
No.
I totally agree with smoke, and I'm an Aussie who has lived in Perth for most of her life. There is nowhere here that I don't feel safe going by myself at night. I've visited/lived in many cities around the world, and I consider Perth to be safer than all of them.
Perth is run by bike gangs (who also control the amphetamine trade in Australia), they are based in northern Perth suburbs, Joondalup, Clarkson. Also the Vietnamese triads in Perth, I'm not sure which suburbs though.
Well, depends what you mean by 'run'. The whole bikie/drugs scene is very focused and if you're not directly involved, you'll never have much to worry about. They're no threat to your average law-abiding citizen.
Put it this way: my fear of getting shot or stabbed or raped anywhere in Perth is close to zero.
posted by Salamander at 5:04 AM on February 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
I totally agree with smoke, and I'm an Aussie who has lived in Perth for most of her life. There is nowhere here that I don't feel safe going by myself at night. I've visited/lived in many cities around the world, and I consider Perth to be safer than all of them.
Perth is run by bike gangs (who also control the amphetamine trade in Australia), they are based in northern Perth suburbs, Joondalup, Clarkson. Also the Vietnamese triads in Perth, I'm not sure which suburbs though.
Well, depends what you mean by 'run'. The whole bikie/drugs scene is very focused and if you're not directly involved, you'll never have much to worry about. They're no threat to your average law-abiding citizen.
Put it this way: my fear of getting shot or stabbed or raped anywhere in Perth is close to zero.
posted by Salamander at 5:04 AM on February 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Don't worry about killer spiders. Yes, there are some bad areas of every city and town in Australia, but not as bad as the US. The chances of you running into someone with a gun and an attitude are negligible. There's junkies and generally angry people looking for a fight, but, like anywhere in the world, if you keep your wits about you, you won't run into any problems.
posted by Diag at 5:05 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Diag at 5:05 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Smoke has it summed up I think. Functioning welfare state, smaller population, less access to guns. There are some country towns that are downright dysfunctional and scary places that do not look part of a modern liberal democracy - Ceduna, Wilcannia, Wadeye.
posted by mattoxic at 5:06 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mattoxic at 5:06 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
3) Gang violence is almost wholly inward focused here. For example there are plenty of shootings in Western Sydney, but they are directed at other gangs, gang members.
I don't think this is unusual for gang violence. The issue is that if you're having drive-bys, it's relatively easily to shoot someone who's not connected to the gang at all.
posted by hoyland at 5:31 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't think this is unusual for gang violence. The issue is that if you're having drive-bys, it's relatively easily to shoot someone who's not connected to the gang at all.
posted by hoyland at 5:31 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
^ I wanted to second hoyland. I know that at least in New Orleans, where I'm currently living, gun violence is almost completely gang on gang. New Orleans has one of the highest murder rates in the US, but my concern about walking around in a bad neighborhood here would be getting mugged, not shot, although those kinds of crime (muggings, etc) happen throughout the city.
posted by MadamM at 5:56 AM on February 13, 2013
posted by MadamM at 5:56 AM on February 13, 2013
I would take Smoke's rose-colored glasses view with caveats:
There is plenty of racism that boils over to outright rampaging violence in Australian cities - by middle class seemingly well adjusted white young people. It was sad to see and I'm glad that we don't have neighbors suddenly turning on us as they did there.
posted by Kruger5 at 6:17 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
There is plenty of racism that boils over to outright rampaging violence in Australian cities - by middle class seemingly well adjusted white young people. It was sad to see and I'm glad that we don't have neighbors suddenly turning on us as they did there.
posted by Kruger5 at 6:17 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you fancy being hacked to bits with a machete in Melbourne there are nightclubs I could direct you to. But it has to be a special occasion.
posted by flabdablet at 6:42 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 6:42 AM on February 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
as terrible as those areas are, much of the violence, drug and alcohol abuse, etc is focused towards other residents of the communities.
I realize that this question is about Australia, but whom, exactly do people think the violence in Compton, etc. is aimed at? It's not like the bloods and the crips went around shooting white people in the surrounding suburbs.
3) Gang violence is almost wholly inward focused here. For example there are plenty of shootings in Western Sydney, but they are directed at other gangs, gang members.
Same thing in the US.
5) Our high poverty neighbourhoods are often low-density, out in the burbs, not in the city.
Depending on where you are in the US, this may be true.
We're not so different, you and I. And Compton, according to some people, is getting better. It's better to think of the ghetto as a place where real people live and not just a black hole of blight.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 6:48 AM on February 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
I realize that this question is about Australia, but whom, exactly do people think the violence in Compton, etc. is aimed at? It's not like the bloods and the crips went around shooting white people in the surrounding suburbs.
3) Gang violence is almost wholly inward focused here. For example there are plenty of shootings in Western Sydney, but they are directed at other gangs, gang members.
Same thing in the US.
5) Our high poverty neighbourhoods are often low-density, out in the burbs, not in the city.
Depending on where you are in the US, this may be true.
We're not so different, you and I. And Compton, according to some people, is getting better. It's better to think of the ghetto as a place where real people live and not just a black hole of blight.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 6:48 AM on February 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
There is plenty of racism that boils over to outright rampaging violence in Australian cities - by middle class seemingly well adjusted white young people. It was sad to see and I'm glad that we don't have neighbors suddenly turning on us as they did there.
posted by Kruger5 at 6:17 AM on February 13 [+] [!]
I'm not sure how this pertains to the question. If by 'neighbours' you mean people who literally live next door to each other, I don't think people suddenly turn on each other any more in Australia than they do anywhere else. These kinds of things usually come from long-term simmering tensions. But yeah - sad to see, just like any mindless violence.
posted by Salamander at 7:39 AM on February 13, 2013
Sorry I didn't mean the city was "run" by bikie gangs but rather they are the dominating force as organized crime. Whereas in Melbourne there tends to be a few groups of organized criminals.
I think Brunswick is worth a mention. In the last 3 years there has been a couple of drive-by murders in broad daylight, sexually motivated female abductions one of which led to a murder (Jill Meagher), Raids on heroin-dealing rings, raids on black market gun distribution rings, a young female stabbed in the neck walking to her work train at 6am then sexually assaulted. All of this within a 1km radius zone. After Jill Meagher my gfs and I don't walk alone at night anymore even in busy melbourne suburbs, when we used to all the time.
Most of the crimes are gang related and these are definitely inwardly focused.
posted by Under the Sea at 1:25 PM on February 13, 2013
I think Brunswick is worth a mention. In the last 3 years there has been a couple of drive-by murders in broad daylight, sexually motivated female abductions one of which led to a murder (Jill Meagher), Raids on heroin-dealing rings, raids on black market gun distribution rings, a young female stabbed in the neck walking to her work train at 6am then sexually assaulted. All of this within a 1km radius zone. After Jill Meagher my gfs and I don't walk alone at night anymore even in busy melbourne suburbs, when we used to all the time.
Most of the crimes are gang related and these are definitely inwardly focused.
posted by Under the Sea at 1:25 PM on February 13, 2013
Canadian living in Melbourne here. I haven't found anything in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane or Hobart (the four capitals I've spent decent time in) that compare to, say, Vancouver's Downtown Eastside or Montreal's Hochelaga or Montreal-Nord neighbourhoods.
I felt much safer in the above-mentioned Brunswick (where I lived for a few months) than I did in any neighbourhood of Montreal, Toronto, New York or LA, for what it's worth, even after the Jill Meagher abduction and murder.
posted by third word on a random page at 12:10 AM on February 14, 2013
I felt much safer in the above-mentioned Brunswick (where I lived for a few months) than I did in any neighbourhood of Montreal, Toronto, New York or LA, for what it's worth, even after the Jill Meagher abduction and murder.
posted by third word on a random page at 12:10 AM on February 14, 2013
Response by poster: I'm sorry. I didn't mean Perth in a specific way. It was just a random city that popped into my head.
But I did get what I needed from your answers so thanks.
edit: and sorry about the grammar. I lost the SOTU drinking game a few nights ago.
posted by johnpowell at 12:17 AM on February 15, 2013
But I did get what I needed from your answers so thanks.
edit: and sorry about the grammar. I lost the SOTU drinking game a few nights ago.
posted by johnpowell at 12:17 AM on February 15, 2013
Interesting resource, Alexei, but the poster asked about Perth, which is sparsely populated compared to those cities.
posted by jojobobo at 2:48 AM on May 1, 2013
posted by jojobobo at 2:48 AM on May 1, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also, alot of commission housing (for example in Melbourne) was built in the 70s and nowadays co-exist in gentrified suburbs (i.e. Fitzroy, Carlton, Williamstown) so you get quite a diverse urban environment in those areas between the commission flats & $1mill terrace houses.
Perth has a very large urban sprawl and doesn't have the urban density that other major cities do. It's hard to make direct comparisons without knowing which bad parts of the US you're thinking of.
posted by Under the Sea at 1:58 AM on February 13, 2013