I Refuse to go to Mayberry
February 10, 2013 3:57 PM   Subscribe

My debit card was skimmed when a local eatery was hacked into. The total take may be over a million dollars. Can my bank force me to file a police report as a condition before returning my money ($104) to me?

My bank's (national chain) initial response (fraud department) was to be accusatory like I was stealing their money. They wanted me to prove I'd been skimmed including the filing of a notarized police report. This incident is being investigated by the FBI and Secret Service they no what's going on far more than the local police. I liken the local police to being one step above Mayberry. Dealings with them in the past have been tedious, officious, and intrusive. All could find on line for banking requirements was the bank is responsible for everything over $50 if the report is made within 2 days of the incident. Is there a legal requirement for a report. BTW it's been over a week and the bank hasn't issued a replacement debit card and I'm dying from having to write checks and use my credit card.
posted by Xurando to Work & Money (46 answers total)
 
Response by poster: by report I mean the initial report to the bank which I did within one hour of the skimming meeting the two day requirement (not the police report).
posted by Xurando at 4:00 PM on February 10, 2013


Read your debit card agreement with your bank. It is likely that you are obligated to cooperate with them in fraud investigations (as this is). This is fundamentally a good idea in order to both help the bank pursue the fraud and to reduce false claims of fraud.

What do you want here? You could pursue the issue, and maybe get the bank to return $104 - $50 = $54 without a police report. Keep in mind that they can make whatever demands they want for the first $50, as that is not required. However, I can almost guarantee you that you will have to put more effort into that than in getting a police report.
posted by saeculorum at 4:03 PM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Not sure about debits, but when my CC was somehow scammed for around $250, the cops said to call the CC company, the CC company said it wasnt even worth their time to prosecute on that amount, and just issued new card.

Also, you should be able to walk into any branch and get a new temporary debit card immediately while they mail you a new one. That should be your first step.
posted by timsteil at 4:06 PM on February 10, 2013


Getting a police report here should be easy. You will need this as a starting point for anyone to believe someone has used your card without authorization. This is also potential protection against further use of any information obtained...This might happen far in the future and having the police report for the known origin might be useful at that time...
posted by NoDef at 4:07 PM on February 10, 2013


So, so far you've told your bank that "someone totally stole your money, the FBI knows about it!" and that's it? Why should they believe you?

If the FBI is publicly investigating a case of card skimming in your area, I'd be shocked if people aren't trying to take advantage of that to get random charges refunded by their bank. It would be negligent of the bank not to require a little more proof from you.

If, of course, you happen to have paperwork from the FBI showing that you have been dealing with them and reported the fraudulent transactions directly to their investigation, I would ask the bank if that counts as a police report.
posted by jacalata at 4:08 PM on February 10, 2013 [6 favorites]


I've only once been asked to get a police report, and I've had several cards with fraudulent transactions posted to them. The card issuer treated the report more as a formality than anything else.
posted by scruss at 4:08 PM on February 10, 2013


Response by poster: My bank sends all the cards from Cleveland, they can't issue a card locally. They wanted $25 to expedite the card shipment. As far as the theft is concerned the money was skimmed at a convenience store in Fenton DE a place I'd never heard of let alone visited. This crime is a tragedy for the local community and the business involved. The local banks are replacing the money right away with no questions asked other than the initial bank reporting, but not my bank. Again my question is: Can the bank force me to file a police report? Again, I want to file with the feds not the local police which the bank is requiring. I am NOT going to file locally.
posted by Xurando at 4:14 PM on February 10, 2013


I guess I don't really understand. Your end goal is to get your money back, right? And to do that, the bank says to file a local police report, which you are refusing to do because . . . they're incompetent? Do you care more about which office is handling the case, or getting your money back? Because if it's the latter, why don't you file the report?

My guess is that chain-of-command policy or jurisdiction stuff (I am not a cop so I've no idea) requires you to file locally before federally.
posted by Think_Long at 4:20 PM on February 10, 2013 [8 favorites]


Yes they can force you to provide proof from a law enforcement agency. A federal or local report specific to you (i.e. mentions your name and the amount in question) should be fine.
posted by NoDef at 4:20 PM on February 10, 2013


What bank is this? In general, when you file a fraud report, you are asked, did you do this transaction, did you give anyone your card, have you ever visited the place in where this happened, etc.

I have never been required to file a police report. Have you had a lot of dealings with their fraud department? I have filed fraud reports with ETrade, Wells Fargo, American Express . .maybe one other bank. I've never run into this requirement. However, I'm sure they are within their rights to require it, because of the debit card agreement cited upthread.
posted by Medieval Maven at 4:24 PM on February 10, 2013


Why are you so opposed to filing a police report? It's inconvenient, but it's not the end of the world. "I need a police report about X Petty Crime to show my bank/insurance company/whoever" is standard procedure, and police departments all over the US do this every day. It's strongly likely that they are already doing this for other people in your community who were impacted by the same crime -- if not, surely they are aware of the situation and familiar in a vague sort of way that it's something somebody might need.

If it's really so unbelievably terrible that you can't even begin to look into it, I would question whether your missing $100 is worth it. If someone offered you $100 to file a police report on their behalf, would you do it? If you could get $100 by putting up with a bureaucratic inconvenience, would you do so?
posted by Sara C. at 4:25 PM on February 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: My bank has been jerking me around from the start of this. I've already spent more than $104 worth of time. The local banks are not putting people through this. This is a protest and I don't mind losing my money, however, again my question is can my bank force me to file a police report? FWIW it's Key Bank.
posted by Xurando at 4:30 PM on February 10, 2013


They can't force you to do it, but if this is an official policy of theirs, and you want your $104 back, then you sort of have to do it. If it's not worth it to you at this point, you can simply cut your losses.

Again, this is a relatively painless and routine thing that people have to do all the time in circumstances like this. If your concern is that some banks have this policy and others don't, maybe it's time to close your account and find a new bank.
posted by Sara C. at 4:35 PM on February 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


Best answer: The bank will most likely (based on my experience working with a bank who I do not represent in any way, shape, or form, which is not Key Bank) not complete the Reg E dispute without a police report, if they're telling you that you need a police report. Any provisional funds that have been returned to you can also be taken back when the Reg E investigation is closed out (45-90 days depending on type of investigation) if you do not fulfill your obligations (sending in signed forms when requested, provided a police report that has been requested, etc).
posted by Juliet Banana at 4:36 PM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: My concern is that the National chain is not sensitive to the local situation. I realize it's a losing argument but it's one I choose to make.
posted by Xurando at 4:40 PM on February 10, 2013


The best solution for you is going to be to do whatever you need to do to get your money back and then move to a credit union, letting your bank know why it is you're leaving.
posted by zug at 4:47 PM on February 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


I think you're misunderstanding a police report.

Police reports do not cause an investigation (and in fact, rarely do). A police report is simply the police recording what you tell them happened. The report is then, in general, filed away and, in general, never used again except for statistical purposes. The reason your bank is asking for one is that if you are lying, you would then be falsifying a report to the police, which is a crime. This is merely a formality that is intended to reduce false claims to the bank.

If your police report is, in fact, actionable, the police would defer to the FBI if there is a current investigation going on. Further, it is likely that the local police would have no jurisdiction anyway, as they are not, in general, able to pursue crime outside the bounds of the city. Financial transactions have a way of leaving the bounds of the city.

Your situation is not a "tragedy" and happens quite frequently. Your bank will handle this appropriately, and whatever law enforcement group handles this is quite able to complete the investigation. This is not the hill you should lose $104 on.
posted by saeculorum at 4:50 PM on February 10, 2013 [15 favorites]


What do you want? This is pretty simple. What your bank can do is going to be governed by the deposit agreement. I bet you dollars to doughnuts that it says you have to cooperate with fraud investigations and that they get to ask you for proof of fraud. Can they make you file a police report? No. Can they make it a condition for getting you reimbursed? You bet.

Do whatever you want. You want to protest? Great. You will be out $104 and the bank will have one less problem to deal with. You really showed them. BTW, I am confident that you have spent more time telling us how put out you would be to file the police report than it would have taken to file the police report.
posted by Tanizaki at 4:51 PM on February 10, 2013 [11 favorites]


If you really don't want to file a police report, I'd just change banks and call it a loss.
posted by summerstorm at 4:55 PM on February 10, 2013 [3 favorites]


When my car got broken into, I filed a police report online. I never saw or spoke with an officer. Filing a report was required by my insurance company. I bet even in Mayberry there's a standard rubber-stamp kind of form for stuff like this, perhaps even online.
posted by rtha at 5:06 PM on February 10, 2013


Response by poster: Not in Mayberry, The woman at the bank (another victim) went through the process. She said the interview and waiting for the police took 20 minutes and then she had to spend another 10 minutes waiting for the notary.
posted by Xurando at 5:29 PM on February 10, 2013


seaculorum has it. The bank is requiring you to file a police report so as to screen fraud reports for credibility. By opening yourself up to criminal liability (filing a false police report), you're demonstrating that you aren't scamming the bank, its share holders, it's depositors, and the FDIC in some manner. It's entirely possible. Perhaps by asking for reimbursement of a transaction you approved of, or were a willing party to the fraud.

Ironic and sad at the same time, that fraud departments have to defend themselves against further fraud. I'm surprised other institutions you're intended to take your business to don't have a similar process.
posted by pwnguin at 5:33 PM on February 10, 2013 [4 favorites]


Dude. You are being blockheaded about this. If you absofuckinglutely DO NOT WANNA GO TO MAYBERRY, fine, but you can't get your money. You have been told that is the hoop you have to jump through. Welcome to adulthood. We all have to jump through hoops to do some stuff we don't wanna, like get paychecks and not go to jail and oh, get your money back. You do not have the power or advantage in this situation to bypass the Mayberry. It is not utterly unreasonable that a bank would want proof of this either. Either accept that you won't get your money because you won't jump through the hoops and change banks, or suck it up and go. It's your life, but we don't have an option 3 for ya.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:40 PM on February 10, 2013 [13 favorites]


Half an hour?

If I offered to pay you $104 to do a tedious task for half an hour, would you do it? That's like $200 an hour just to stand in line!

In all seriousness, anytime there's an annoying task I don't want to do, but which involves money, I rationalize it to myself in this way. For example a few weeks ago I accidentally threw away a check for about $50. I was pretty sure it was still in the big curbside garbage can. For a minute, I seriously considered letting it go. Then I asked myself, "If someone offered to pay you $50 to dig in one garbage can for 10 minutes, would you do it?" Sadly, and disgustingly, I knew the answer was yes. So I found my check and deposited the dirty thing and now I'm $50 richer.
posted by Sara C. at 5:53 PM on February 10, 2013 [15 favorites]


Can my bank force me to file a police report as a condition before returning my money ($104) to me?

Yes.
posted by PCup at 6:00 PM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


The local banks are replacing the money right away with no questions asked other than the initial bank reporting, but not my bank ... My bank has been jerking me around from the start of this. I've already spent more than $104 worth of time. The local banks are not putting people through this. This is a protest and I don't mind losing my money

What do you expect to achieve by protesting to the AskMe audience? If you think the local banks have better service, why stay with a bank you obviously find irritating to deal with?
posted by flabdablet at 6:07 PM on February 10, 2013


Response by poster: I'm not asking for option 3. I don't want to switch because they have a better electronic interface that any of the other banks. 99% of the time I can can handle the whole account without having to deal with the local branch. In case you don't know switching banks is an enormous hassle. I'm not protesting to the askme audience. I'm protesting to the local bank. I asked a technical question and got more than a technical answer.
posted by Xurando at 6:14 PM on February 10, 2013


For what it's worth, I've been banking for thirty years with a credit union whose Internet banking facilities has always been and remains simply streets ahead of anything on offer from any bank in this country (Australia). And as you'd expect from an organization whose customers are also its shareholders, the credit union has always been an absolute pleasure to deal with.

It could be well worth your time to investigate what's on offer from credit unions in your area. You might well find one that's more than worth the enormous hassle of switching to.
posted by flabdablet at 6:34 PM on February 10, 2013


Yes, a bank can require a police report as a condition of refunding your money, if that is permitted by your state's banking regulations. Whether your bank has the grounds to do it or not depends on the terms of their consumer agreement. You could call and ask a bank staffer to clarify where it says in the consumer agreement that you are required to do it, I suppose.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:42 PM on February 10, 2013


I don't think this is a local vs. national issue. This sounds like a "you don't like their policy and don't want to comply with it" issue -- and instead of moving forward with the process that's in place so you can get your money back, you've decided to try to change the minds of people who don't control the policy anyway. The tellers at your bank didn't create this policy. The customer service people who answer the phone when you call the bank didn't create this policy. My understanding of your behavior and temper where this issue is concerned suggests you will never be put through to anyone who's actually responsible for this policy.

The long and short of it: Your bank can have the policy you described. Yes, it sucks to have to do a bunch of paperwork and spend a bunch of time on things you don't like when something is stolen from you. But if you want your money back, follow the steps they told you to get your money back.
posted by cranberry_nut at 6:51 PM on February 10, 2013


Best answer: I had to do it when my debit card was hacked online. This was from a small local bank, not a big chain. It was a royal pain and I protested too - I protested even more when I had to not only file the police report but then go down to the police station a week later and pick it up and get it notarized and hand deliver it to the bank. Oh well, though, them's the breaks and no, it's never going to be investigated and no, nobody really cares. Look, the woman who stole - or bought or whatever - my debit card number was dumb enough to use it for Farmville credits. The bank rep (who became a friend of mine through all this, silver linings) and I figured out her name and address in 15 minutes of metafilter style scooby dooing. The cops didn't care or listen to us anyway because she was in California and apparently North Carolina and California don't have a mutual extradition treaty or something, go figure. No, seriously. Anyway! That is all to say that it's just paperwork that has to be done so you can get your money back. I lost significantly more than $104 but it would still be worth that to me to jump through the hoops that the bank is requiring, no matter how pointless and inane.
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:12 PM on February 10, 2013


You are furious at the bank, but you don't want to force them to give you your money back? Why are you letting them keep $104 that should be yours according to their own policy? How is this "protest" going to harm the bank?

I would presume that you are also angry at the person who actually stole your money, and yet you are refusing to take one hour out of your day to implicate that person legally on paper.

I get that this is a pain in the ass, and it would be much nicer if your bank would just call the FBI to double-check and then send you the funds. But the only person who will lose out if you do not file the report is you.
posted by BlueJae at 9:01 PM on February 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


Is there a legal requirement for a report.

Basically, no, but there's also no legal requirement that they have to reimburse you beyond the first $50.

It's only recently that the debit card side of the industry has faced much in the way of regulation and they're fighting it every step of the way. For a long time the assumption was that you lost the card, you swallowed the losses. (This began before online transactions were a thing.) So basically you have the choice of your time or your $54.

Yeah, the fraud department were officious, but you have to realize that that is their job and the money they are protecting is yours (i.e. as a depositor at the bank you are helping cover ANY AND ALL losses). It's not a pleasant situation and I would not advise you to take it personally.
posted by dhartung at 12:12 AM on February 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thanks to everyone who responded. I am still on the fence on this and may or may not file the report. I am not angry at anyone but think it's healthy at times to stand up to large faceless institutions on principle, even tho I know I will lose.
posted by Xurando at 4:13 AM on February 11, 2013


Response by poster: Update: I bit the bullet and tried to make the police report but Mayberry refused to take it because they'd received too many on this particular crime and I wasn't a town resident. They told me to go to the State Police who told me Mayberry was wrong and that they should take a complaint from anyone. So now I'm in limbo. I knew this would happen with Mayberry.
posted by Xurando at 6:58 AM on February 11, 2013


It sounds like the local police, rather than the bank, is the real problem here. Why not protest them refusing to take police reports (!!) by going in there and refusing to leave until they do?
posted by zug at 7:20 AM on February 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


I am still on the fence on this and may or may not file the report. I am not angry at anyone but think it's healthy at times to stand up to large faceless institutions on principle, even tho I know I will lose.
Ok, but I really don't get how allowing them to keep $104 of your money is standing up to them.
posted by peacheater at 7:41 AM on February 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


I bit the bullet and tried to make the police report but Mayberry refused to take it because they'd received too many on this particular crime and I wasn't a town resident

Did you explain to them that you are required to file that report in order to apply for your refund? You may need to be a bit of a pain in the ass with them to get your way.
posted by Think_Long at 8:55 AM on February 11, 2013


Go to your local police station. Tell them you are required by your bank to make a report. They'll give you a piece of paper, write your report, get the police report number, then give it to your bank.

My insurance company had me get a police report when my neighbor's tree fell in my backyard causing damage.

If you show up, the desk sergeant will help you out. The local police may not have the resources to actually drive out to you to do this.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:47 AM on February 11, 2013


Response by poster: I am amazed how people don't read the thread and respond. I went to the Mayberry PD this morning, in person, and was refused the opportunity to file a report because I didn't live in the town. They refused to give a report to fill out. I said it was a bank requirement but it made no difference to them. At no point did I ask the local police to drive out. Where did that come from?
posted by Xurando at 9:58 AM on February 11, 2013


Can you put someone from the bank on the phone with the person from Mayberry PD who insists this is something they cannot do?
posted by Sara C. at 10:05 AM on February 11, 2013


Response by poster: Gotta call into the bank. tbc
posted by Xurando at 10:20 AM on February 11, 2013


Response by poster: Latest update: The bank knew that Mayberry wasn't taking police reports but never told me. Leaving me to agonize over this. The bank is going to ask for special dispensation from the pope of the fraud department which will enable me to keep my money without filling out a report. Can I call this a victory?
posted by Xurando at 10:36 AM on February 11, 2013


Why can't you file a police report in the town you live in?
posted by WeekendJen at 10:42 AM on February 11, 2013


Response by poster: There are no police in the town where I live. The state police do what little policing there is but they won't take a report saying its Mayberry's jurdistiction. Again, this was explained earlier. Please read the thread.
posted by Xurando at 11:53 AM on February 11, 2013


Mod note: OP, you need to dial back the commenting; this isn't a blog space for sharing your experience, and if you find answers unhelpful, you can ignore them.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:18 AM on February 15, 2013


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