What do you consider a healthy dynamic between parents and a grown son?
February 9, 2013 2:39 PM Subscribe
I know every family is different, however I'd like to know what people consider to be a healthy idynamic between a grown (41 years) adult living at home and their parents and what would be considered unhealthy.
I want to know what is considered a healthy interaction between a grown adult and their parents and what's considered unhealthy. As I have a friend who's still living at home, from the interactions I've seen and heard about I feel it's unhealthy. However I could just think that due to how my family is and if it's fine I don't want to say things that may be negative towards it. Equally though I care about his happiness and feel that part of why he hasn't done more is in part (there are other things that have prevented him doing more so his parents are not the only issue) due to his parents treatment of him.
My friend is 41 years old, he's never moved out and has lived in the same house his entire life. I believe that part of the reason he hasn't moved out and done more is due to how his parents treat him. From my outside perspective they still treat him like a child. Obviously I know that to them he will always be their child. In my parents eyes I'm still their child however they also accept I'm a grown woman and am treated as such. Even when I was 21 and living with my Mother I was still treated like an adult with my choices and privacy being respected.
Some of the things I've seen/heard of that make me think his parents do not always treat him as and adult are:
*When he wasn't home by 7pm the other day they called him up to ask him where he was.
*His mother has often told him in the past that he should get a new jacket etc and will point out something that she likes to him and keeps on at him until he buys it. He then just puts it in a cupboard and doesn't wear it. So he's then wasted his hard earned money.
*His old bed looked a bit frayed round the bottom of the divan, however he found it very comfortable and it had good storage in it and he needs good storage. They took his bed off him to put into the spare bedroom so they could use the storage and gave him a bed that he found less comfortable and had less storage. They then complained that his room looked more cluttered as stuff that had a home in his old bed no longer has a home.
*I can understand his parents getting stressed if his room is messy and smelly or a fire hazard. However his room, though cluttered (he collects action figures and comics and has lots of DVDs and CDs) is still organised and actually not that bad. However his parents keep saying they don't understand why he collects stuff and talk negatively about his collection.
*When he was younger he asked if he could have a TV in his room. He was told it was impossible to get an aerial fitted into his room. His parents have an aerial in their room so it would have been a very simple job to put one into his. Then a year or so ago he mentioned it again and his Dad said it would have been easy to put one in.
*As he's not been allowed to have a TV in his room he has to watch TV downstairs. However he's only allowed to watch what he wants at about 10.30pm for half an hour to an hour on weekdays and a a bit in the morning on the weekends. He records stuff he'd like to watch on the satalite box but because he can't watch it it builds up and fills the box.
*His mother keeps trying to get him to put up different curtains and duvet cover in his room despite him liking the ones he's got.
I understand that when you live in someone elses home you need to be respectful of their feelings. However at 41 years of age he should now be being treated more as a lodger than as a child. He pays a fixed sum to cover the bills etc and it's a reasonable amount that would be inline with current market price for a lodger to pay for a small single room. I care about him a great deal and would love to see him be happy. He has said he wants children, however the way he's living at the moment that is not going to happen. If he wants my help I'd love to be able to help him gain more independance in order to be able to move out and start progressing towards having a family.
However I'm aware that I may just be seeing things the way I am due to my different upbringing. So I thought I'd ask what other people think. Is the way his parents treat him more like a child than and adult or is it fairly normal. If it is more that of a young child/parent dynamic then what do you consider to be a healthy dynamic between parents and their adult son when he lodges with them? And possibly more importantly should I just leave well enough alone and leave him to continue living the way he is or is it ok that I want to help him move towards his goal of having children?
I want to know what is considered a healthy interaction between a grown adult and their parents and what's considered unhealthy. As I have a friend who's still living at home, from the interactions I've seen and heard about I feel it's unhealthy. However I could just think that due to how my family is and if it's fine I don't want to say things that may be negative towards it. Equally though I care about his happiness and feel that part of why he hasn't done more is in part (there are other things that have prevented him doing more so his parents are not the only issue) due to his parents treatment of him.
My friend is 41 years old, he's never moved out and has lived in the same house his entire life. I believe that part of the reason he hasn't moved out and done more is due to how his parents treat him. From my outside perspective they still treat him like a child. Obviously I know that to them he will always be their child. In my parents eyes I'm still their child however they also accept I'm a grown woman and am treated as such. Even when I was 21 and living with my Mother I was still treated like an adult with my choices and privacy being respected.
Some of the things I've seen/heard of that make me think his parents do not always treat him as and adult are:
*When he wasn't home by 7pm the other day they called him up to ask him where he was.
*His mother has often told him in the past that he should get a new jacket etc and will point out something that she likes to him and keeps on at him until he buys it. He then just puts it in a cupboard and doesn't wear it. So he's then wasted his hard earned money.
*His old bed looked a bit frayed round the bottom of the divan, however he found it very comfortable and it had good storage in it and he needs good storage. They took his bed off him to put into the spare bedroom so they could use the storage and gave him a bed that he found less comfortable and had less storage. They then complained that his room looked more cluttered as stuff that had a home in his old bed no longer has a home.
*I can understand his parents getting stressed if his room is messy and smelly or a fire hazard. However his room, though cluttered (he collects action figures and comics and has lots of DVDs and CDs) is still organised and actually not that bad. However his parents keep saying they don't understand why he collects stuff and talk negatively about his collection.
*When he was younger he asked if he could have a TV in his room. He was told it was impossible to get an aerial fitted into his room. His parents have an aerial in their room so it would have been a very simple job to put one into his. Then a year or so ago he mentioned it again and his Dad said it would have been easy to put one in.
*As he's not been allowed to have a TV in his room he has to watch TV downstairs. However he's only allowed to watch what he wants at about 10.30pm for half an hour to an hour on weekdays and a a bit in the morning on the weekends. He records stuff he'd like to watch on the satalite box but because he can't watch it it builds up and fills the box.
*His mother keeps trying to get him to put up different curtains and duvet cover in his room despite him liking the ones he's got.
I understand that when you live in someone elses home you need to be respectful of their feelings. However at 41 years of age he should now be being treated more as a lodger than as a child. He pays a fixed sum to cover the bills etc and it's a reasonable amount that would be inline with current market price for a lodger to pay for a small single room. I care about him a great deal and would love to see him be happy. He has said he wants children, however the way he's living at the moment that is not going to happen. If he wants my help I'd love to be able to help him gain more independance in order to be able to move out and start progressing towards having a family.
However I'm aware that I may just be seeing things the way I am due to my different upbringing. So I thought I'd ask what other people think. Is the way his parents treat him more like a child than and adult or is it fairly normal. If it is more that of a young child/parent dynamic then what do you consider to be a healthy dynamic between parents and their adult son when he lodges with them? And possibly more importantly should I just leave well enough alone and leave him to continue living the way he is or is it ok that I want to help him move towards his goal of having children?
If he's never moved out, then the dynamic doesn't have a lot of room to change. This is fairly common among the adults (especially adult males) I've seen who live at home. The parents continue to act as if he's a lot younger, and the person living at home gets the benefit of not having to act too much like a grown-up.
posted by xingcat at 2:50 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by xingcat at 2:50 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
It seems unhealthy to me, but if he's not unhappy enough to make changes, what are you going to do about it? You can point out that as long as he lives this way, his chances of having a relationship that leads to parenthood are pretty slim, but that's about it.
posted by rtha at 2:53 PM on February 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by rtha at 2:53 PM on February 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
To me, by definition, if a 41 year old has never moved out of his childhood house, even if he is paying rent, there is an unhealthy dynamic going on. Having said that, I am not sure it is your place to interject yourself.
What your friend needs to do is grow a set of balls and tell his parents how it is going to be in his room. He needs to lay down the law and tell them to treat him like an adult, respect his choices and decisions or he is moving out.
How old are his parents? Do they need him living there for the financial assistance of having a boarder or for some physical or mental issue?
He wants to have kids? Does he bring dates home to his room? The whole thing is odd and screwed up, but instead of focusing on his parents actions he needs to focus on his and either accept life as is or MOVE OUT.
Unless you are his girlfriend hoping to marry him and have kids with him one day, I would either stay out of it or have one short low key discussion suggesting he move out. If he cannot afford to move out, then at 41, he needs to find a new career because he cannot afford to get married and have kids either. But, if he is stuck there, he should stand up for himself to his parents although it sounds like the issue is more with his mother than his father. Pops sounds like he is also cowered by the mother and goes along to get along.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 3:01 PM on February 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
What your friend needs to do is grow a set of balls and tell his parents how it is going to be in his room. He needs to lay down the law and tell them to treat him like an adult, respect his choices and decisions or he is moving out.
How old are his parents? Do they need him living there for the financial assistance of having a boarder or for some physical or mental issue?
He wants to have kids? Does he bring dates home to his room? The whole thing is odd and screwed up, but instead of focusing on his parents actions he needs to focus on his and either accept life as is or MOVE OUT.
Unless you are his girlfriend hoping to marry him and have kids with him one day, I would either stay out of it or have one short low key discussion suggesting he move out. If he cannot afford to move out, then at 41, he needs to find a new career because he cannot afford to get married and have kids either. But, if he is stuck there, he should stand up for himself to his parents although it sounds like the issue is more with his mother than his father. Pops sounds like he is also cowered by the mother and goes along to get along.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 3:01 PM on February 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Does he want your help anyway? But if he wants to change his family situation, its something that he will need to do, and you should leave well enough alone.
(Also, is the coworker from before? I understand that you want to supportive of him, but I don't think its very wise to get entangled with him considering that he seems emotionally immature, and having kids is a dealbreaker for you already.)
posted by florencetnoa at 3:03 PM on February 9, 2013
(Also, is the coworker from before? I understand that you want to supportive of him, but I don't think its very wise to get entangled with him considering that he seems emotionally immature, and having kids is a dealbreaker for you already.)
posted by florencetnoa at 3:03 PM on February 9, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks for your replies. He does seem to want to change his situation as he's now starting to pay more attention to bills etc. As you say there's not much I can do I just want to support him if he does want to change. As rtha said his chances of having a child if he continues this way is very slim. As I want him to be happy I wanted to know if there was anything I could do to support him or say in a round about way that would help him move towards having children.
posted by Ranting Prophet of DOOM! at 3:04 PM on February 9, 2013
posted by Ranting Prophet of DOOM! at 3:04 PM on February 9, 2013
Best answer: As I want him to be happy I wanted to know if there was anything I could do to support him
Tell him "I am here for you if you need anything, just ask."
The worst thing would be for you to help him excessively just when he is trying to be more independent. You seem to be acting parental towards him, which is exactly what he does not need.
posted by desjardins at 3:06 PM on February 9, 2013 [15 favorites]
Tell him "I am here for you if you need anything, just ask."
The worst thing would be for you to help him excessively just when he is trying to be more independent. You seem to be acting parental towards him, which is exactly what he does not need.
posted by desjardins at 3:06 PM on February 9, 2013 [15 favorites]
There is not much you can do to put starch into this manchild's backbone. If he will not insist on being treated otherwise, the dynamic will remain unchanged. His folks changed his room? It is in their house. Why not? Does he pay rent? Does he assume any of the burdens of home ownership?
My usual advice about aging, meddling women: It might be helpful if he got his mom a hobby other than managing his life.
posted by Cranberry at 3:07 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
My usual advice about aging, meddling women: It might be helpful if he got his mom a hobby other than managing his life.
posted by Cranberry at 3:07 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Desjardins thank you for your post. I was worried that I was starting to act more parental towards him. I understand it's his choice whether he wants to change or not and I don't believe he has to change if he is happy how he is. However as he's expressed some desire to change and a desire for children I wanted to be there for him if he wanted my help. I do also realise that he needs to make the choices for himself and enforce the boundries as he sees fit. I have told him that I'm there for him if he needs help. He does seem to be changing his life and his attitude at the moment and I know it can feel very scary having been through something similar before. Hence why I want to support him if he wants my help. Yet I was also worried I'd help too much.
posted by Ranting Prophet of DOOM! at 3:17 PM on February 9, 2013
posted by Ranting Prophet of DOOM! at 3:17 PM on February 9, 2013
Best answer: There are going to be a lot of things he just won't know how to do because he hasn't done them before (what does an apartment lease look like? how do I buy a car? what kind of pots and pans do I need to get?) and you can share your personal experiences with those without telling him what he should do. "Well, I found my apartment by driving through the neighborhood and writing down phone numbers from signs, but I've also heard that kids these days are using craigslist ..."
posted by desjardins at 3:28 PM on February 9, 2013
posted by desjardins at 3:28 PM on February 9, 2013
Is this the same guy who was this subject of this question? Your colleague with whom you had an intense month, discovered your essential incompatibility over whether to have children, and parted ways but still have to write a book together?
If so, stop butting into this poor guy's life and do your best to keep your relationship professional. It's not your place to fix him or to play therapist/parent with him, especially given your history which foundered over the issue of having children, of all things. And now you purport to help him with just that? Yikes. Yes his parents treat him like a child, but he's behaving like a child too... and apparently likes it that way. Just because his relationship with you might have precipitated his desire for greater independence doesn't obligate you to nurture it.
As for you, you're 33 years old and with limited relationship experience yourself per your previous question, correct? Put the energy you're devoting into this man-child's dysfunctional life into getting your own house in order. Stop distracting yourself. Move on. And finally, consider pursuing some therapy for you, stat, to give you a place to get to know yourself and live the life you want and deserve.
posted by carmicha at 3:30 PM on February 9, 2013 [21 favorites]
If so, stop butting into this poor guy's life and do your best to keep your relationship professional. It's not your place to fix him or to play therapist/parent with him, especially given your history which foundered over the issue of having children, of all things. And now you purport to help him with just that? Yikes. Yes his parents treat him like a child, but he's behaving like a child too... and apparently likes it that way. Just because his relationship with you might have precipitated his desire for greater independence doesn't obligate you to nurture it.
As for you, you're 33 years old and with limited relationship experience yourself per your previous question, correct? Put the energy you're devoting into this man-child's dysfunctional life into getting your own house in order. Stop distracting yourself. Move on. And finally, consider pursuing some therapy for you, stat, to give you a place to get to know yourself and live the life you want and deserve.
posted by carmicha at 3:30 PM on February 9, 2013 [21 favorites]
If this is the same guy as your last two questions (and it must be unless you know a LOT of 41-year old men living at home), I think it's time you left him alone to live his own life. As you said, "it's ok to let go of a friendship when it's upsetting [you] to this extent."
On preview, what carmicha said.
posted by _Mona_ at 3:34 PM on February 9, 2013
On preview, what carmicha said.
posted by _Mona_ at 3:34 PM on February 9, 2013
Maybe his parents treat him like a child because he's not really acting like an adult. Wearing old clothes can be a sign of something not quite right, and if his mother is trying to get him to shape up==maybe he needs to pay attention to her, if he wants to be perceived as an adult. He's 41, living at home, collecting comics and action figures, which makes him sound like he's stuck at a much younger age. Are there development delays that aren't being mentioned?
posted by Ideefixe at 3:36 PM on February 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 3:36 PM on February 9, 2013 [3 favorites]
Given what carmicha said, I rescind my advice. This guy should not be your project, your fixer-upper, either as a romantic interest or as a friend. Please find a more suitable hobby - I am not being snarky here - like knitting or painting or volunteering at a humane society. Your interactions with this person are not good for you.
posted by desjardins at 3:39 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 3:39 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I remember you and your past questions about this guy. i'm sorry to see you are still dealing with this. It is an impossible situation that is not going to change, especially not with you involved because the whole thing is just super duper effed up and "you can't fix what you did not break," so to speak.
I'm sorry.
He only expresses enough desire to change such that it keeps you interested in his drama. I wish I could get you to understand how unbelievably toxic it is for you to continue to interact with this man and his mess. You are harming yourself with your interest in this person. In other questions you've talked about how much he's hurt you and how the relationship is going in circles. perhaps you think his parents are to blame, and that is why you and he are not together? Hon, that's just not true. He has agency. He isn't going to end up married with children because of himself, not because of his parents.
You should stay out of this, it is none of your business how this man and his parents interact. They are not the cause for his inability to commit to you. Again, I'm sorry. I know this is difficult to hear. I pray you do hear the message this time, though.
Please don't waste a second more on this guy! Drop him. Go out and live your life!! Move past this guy.
I think a better use of AskMe might be to explore why this guy is so compelling for you, personally, since he has nothing recommending him as a friend or potential life partner.
You seem stuck on someone that is never ever going to be able to be a true friend or partner for you.
This guy isn't magically going to morph overnight into an independent adult capable of being a father and husband precisely because he has skipped all of the self-work involved in getting to that point. You can not change this situation. You cannot change him. He hasn't even moved out of his parents' house yet. There is absoloutely no chance of improvement because of him and his choices.
You are hurting yourself with your interest in this guy. Being stuck is preventing you from finding the happiness you deserve.
Step away from this thread, turn off the computer, go out into the world. Spend some time thinking about you, not this guy.
Come back in a week or two and ask for help getting over this compulsion you've got going on if you really find yourself obsessed and unable to focus on yourself and your own well-being.
You can't fix yourself by fixing others. Focus on yourself. That is the way forward.
posted by jbenben at 3:42 PM on February 9, 2013 [19 favorites]
I'm sorry.
He only expresses enough desire to change such that it keeps you interested in his drama. I wish I could get you to understand how unbelievably toxic it is for you to continue to interact with this man and his mess. You are harming yourself with your interest in this person. In other questions you've talked about how much he's hurt you and how the relationship is going in circles. perhaps you think his parents are to blame, and that is why you and he are not together? Hon, that's just not true. He has agency. He isn't going to end up married with children because of himself, not because of his parents.
You should stay out of this, it is none of your business how this man and his parents interact. They are not the cause for his inability to commit to you. Again, I'm sorry. I know this is difficult to hear. I pray you do hear the message this time, though.
Please don't waste a second more on this guy! Drop him. Go out and live your life!! Move past this guy.
I think a better use of AskMe might be to explore why this guy is so compelling for you, personally, since he has nothing recommending him as a friend or potential life partner.
You seem stuck on someone that is never ever going to be able to be a true friend or partner for you.
This guy isn't magically going to morph overnight into an independent adult capable of being a father and husband precisely because he has skipped all of the self-work involved in getting to that point. You can not change this situation. You cannot change him. He hasn't even moved out of his parents' house yet. There is absoloutely no chance of improvement because of him and his choices.
You are hurting yourself with your interest in this guy. Being stuck is preventing you from finding the happiness you deserve.
Step away from this thread, turn off the computer, go out into the world. Spend some time thinking about you, not this guy.
Come back in a week or two and ask for help getting over this compulsion you've got going on if you really find yourself obsessed and unable to focus on yourself and your own well-being.
You can't fix yourself by fixing others. Focus on yourself. That is the way forward.
posted by jbenben at 3:42 PM on February 9, 2013 [19 favorites]
If your friend moves out and fathers children at this point, he will simultaneously be dealing with what are ideally three distinct life phases: living on his own for the first time, raising young children, and caring for aging parents. How do you think that would shake out for you as his partner?
posted by ecsh at 4:41 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ecsh at 4:41 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not going to get into your past questions and relationship with this guy, others have addressed that.
Just to straight up answer your question, in my opinion, if he's not paying rent to his parents, and the furniture in the room belongs to them, then they can say what they want about the decor and how the furniture should be arranged.
It doesn't mean they are treating him like a child, it means they are treating a room in their house like a room in their house. I'm also wondering if the things they are saying are objectively true, as well - I mean, he's a 41 year old collecting action figures and living at home. That paints a certain kind of picture of someone who might not be taking care of their life - are his clothes actually really disheveled? Was the stuff in his room really frayed and falling apart? Maybe they have a point. And maybe they're trying to prod him because they actually want him to move out and they think that if they make his room/life there a little less comfortable for him, he'll get a life and get his own place.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 4:45 PM on February 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Just to straight up answer your question, in my opinion, if he's not paying rent to his parents, and the furniture in the room belongs to them, then they can say what they want about the decor and how the furniture should be arranged.
It doesn't mean they are treating him like a child, it means they are treating a room in their house like a room in their house. I'm also wondering if the things they are saying are objectively true, as well - I mean, he's a 41 year old collecting action figures and living at home. That paints a certain kind of picture of someone who might not be taking care of their life - are his clothes actually really disheveled? Was the stuff in his room really frayed and falling apart? Maybe they have a point. And maybe they're trying to prod him because they actually want him to move out and they think that if they make his room/life there a little less comfortable for him, he'll get a life and get his own place.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 4:45 PM on February 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
There's nothing wrong with caring about a friend and wanting to help them be happy. But in this case I think the best thing you could do for him would be to let him figure this out on his own.
To be blunt, he is so far away from being where he needs to be mentally, emotionally, and financially in order to have children that I think it's doubtful that it will ever happen for him. He's been living in a child-like state for 41 years. You trying to help him figure out how to take care of himself only extends his dependency and just makes you the one supporting him instead of his parents.
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 4:56 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
To be blunt, he is so far away from being where he needs to be mentally, emotionally, and financially in order to have children that I think it's doubtful that it will ever happen for him. He's been living in a child-like state for 41 years. You trying to help him figure out how to take care of himself only extends his dependency and just makes you the one supporting him instead of his parents.
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 4:56 PM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
From an anonymous commenter:
I have a coworker who is in his late 50s. He still lives with his parents in the house where he grew up. He still lives in the bedroom where he grew up. It's a two-family house, and his sister lives in the other unit.posted by restless_nomad at 5:53 PM on February 9, 2013 [7 favorites]
He never learned to drive. I believe he has never had a romantic relationship or possibly even gone out on a date. At this point his parents are quite elderly and frail, and a lot of his time at home is spent caring for them.
He's a total geek. He's into airplanes and anything made by Apple.
He seems to be relatively happy. As happy as most people, I guess. He buys a new Mac about once a year, and his annual holiday is to travel to California for the Apple developers conference.
Is this healthy? I don't even know what that means. It's his life. It's not the life I'd want, but then I'm not him (and honestly, there are elements of my own life that are not what I want). He seems happy enough, and really, it's none of my business anyway. He's a nice guy, I like working with him, we go to lunch and joke around. End of story.
There but for the grace of god or whatever go I, because if not for college, I'd be this guy. My parents didn't want me to move out and they didn't want me to grow up. They had to because I had to go out of town to go to school, and I wouldn't have learned how to do anything had my parents been around daily. I've come to the conclusion that people really need to learn to live on their own by about their mid-20's, and if they don't ever leave home....uh... it doesn't seem to happen. I honestly think it's like their brains become handicapped or something.
In order for this guy to grow up, (a) he has to really want to, and (b) he is going to need a fuckload of help and hand holding to do it. If he's never lived alone, getting an apartment alone may be a problem. He's 41, so I don't know who's going to want him as a roomie because most people his age don't need them/are married, and the 20somethings on Craigslist will find him weird. Someone is going to have to walk him through how an adult survives and pays for things and lives without his parents. And he needs to live in a different town, preferably far away, from mom and dad, or it won't take. His parents want him to stay a child, and he has no idea how to relate to them otherwise and vice versa. The only way that'll change is if he leaves, but I don't think he's up to initiating that AND making it stick all alone. He'll well, need another mommy who wants him to grow up and will teach him how. And will NOT fall into the trap of being an actual second mommy and taking care of everything for him.
But realistically, it may be too late for this guy. If you are thinking that this guy may have potential as a husband someday, uh....no. He's too much of a child to handle that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:08 PM on February 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
In order for this guy to grow up, (a) he has to really want to, and (b) he is going to need a fuckload of help and hand holding to do it. If he's never lived alone, getting an apartment alone may be a problem. He's 41, so I don't know who's going to want him as a roomie because most people his age don't need them/are married, and the 20somethings on Craigslist will find him weird. Someone is going to have to walk him through how an adult survives and pays for things and lives without his parents. And he needs to live in a different town, preferably far away, from mom and dad, or it won't take. His parents want him to stay a child, and he has no idea how to relate to them otherwise and vice versa. The only way that'll change is if he leaves, but I don't think he's up to initiating that AND making it stick all alone. He'll well, need another mommy who wants him to grow up and will teach him how. And will NOT fall into the trap of being an actual second mommy and taking care of everything for him.
But realistically, it may be too late for this guy. If you are thinking that this guy may have potential as a husband someday, uh....no. He's too much of a child to handle that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:08 PM on February 9, 2013 [2 favorites]
Is the way his parents treat him more like a child than and adult or is it fairly normal.
These are just anecdotal observations, but the few times that I have known people in their 30s and 40s living with their parents for their entire lives, there is/are psychological and psychiatric problems underlying the whole thing, and often very severe problems. I'm just suggesting this as a a possibility for you to consider; that it is not his parents who are stopping him from achieving his goal, but himself.
I don't mean this as an attack, OP, but just to give you another way of looking at this.
If this is really his goal, have you asked him what he has done so far to get closer to this goal and why he hasn't taken initial steps like moving out of his place? Just listen to his answer.
Because another possibility is that he could just be telling you that this is his life long goal to avoid other things (i.e. a relationship with you?), because there is something inconsistent here. This is his goal but he has never taken steps to move out of his childhood home and live independently? Surely someone this age could have done something small to move in another direction and recognize that this would be a phenomenal hindrance.
There is also the possibility that he doesn't even recognize that this is not his true goal.
I don't mean this in a bad way, but to also help you reframe what you are doing, OP. You have asked 3 separate drama filled questions as to how to deal with this guy and move on/get involved. Try to be honest with yourself, too. What do you really want? Because you are stuck in the same vortex, over and over again. You may be after something else (a relationship?), and go about these other quests and goals that you assign yourself. You experience highs and lows, but these are not highs and lows of a relationship but highs and lows of just not getting what you want.
Spend the time on yourself. Ask what you want and work on yourself. Or reread your last 3 questions and ask yourself: Is this making you happy?
posted by Wolfster at 6:13 PM on February 9, 2013 [7 favorites]
These are just anecdotal observations, but the few times that I have known people in their 30s and 40s living with their parents for their entire lives, there is/are psychological and psychiatric problems underlying the whole thing, and often very severe problems. I'm just suggesting this as a a possibility for you to consider; that it is not his parents who are stopping him from achieving his goal, but himself.
I don't mean this as an attack, OP, but just to give you another way of looking at this.
If this is really his goal, have you asked him what he has done so far to get closer to this goal and why he hasn't taken initial steps like moving out of his place? Just listen to his answer.
Because another possibility is that he could just be telling you that this is his life long goal to avoid other things (i.e. a relationship with you?), because there is something inconsistent here. This is his goal but he has never taken steps to move out of his childhood home and live independently? Surely someone this age could have done something small to move in another direction and recognize that this would be a phenomenal hindrance.
There is also the possibility that he doesn't even recognize that this is not his true goal.
I don't mean this in a bad way, but to also help you reframe what you are doing, OP. You have asked 3 separate drama filled questions as to how to deal with this guy and move on/get involved. Try to be honest with yourself, too. What do you really want? Because you are stuck in the same vortex, over and over again. You may be after something else (a relationship?), and go about these other quests and goals that you assign yourself. You experience highs and lows, but these are not highs and lows of a relationship but highs and lows of just not getting what you want.
Spend the time on yourself. Ask what you want and work on yourself. Or reread your last 3 questions and ask yourself: Is this making you happy?
posted by Wolfster at 6:13 PM on February 9, 2013 [7 favorites]
A complete waste of DNA and RNA, and whatever energy stocks have mistakenly been poured into his continued existence.
No.
He is a fellow human being who deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, no matter what others may think of his lifestyle. It could be that he has some invisible-to-the-world mental infirmity that keeps him in his current situation.
OP, it's not your place to hurry him along. Leave him be.
posted by nacho fries at 6:34 PM on February 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
No.
He is a fellow human being who deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, no matter what others may think of his lifestyle. It could be that he has some invisible-to-the-world mental infirmity that keeps him in his current situation.
OP, it's not your place to hurry him along. Leave him be.
posted by nacho fries at 6:34 PM on February 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
I live in a town where this is A Thing. A few of the people my age (around 30) that I know of have never moved out of their parents' home, and shuffle from dead-end job to dead-end job, and have never seriously dated. They're not stupid, and they could do far better. It's just... that way. They're Italian, so I think that's a huge part of it. It saddens me that the wonderfulness and fun of being young and free is seemingly wasted living in the same shag carpeted room you blerfed up your eleventh birthday cake in, but they seem to be satisfied, so good for them. I guess if they want kids, they can sneak them in under the wire, if they want.
You can't make him change if he's set in his ways. And 41 is goddamn set in his ways. It'd take an act of god, or a come to jesus moment, to get him to change.
posted by kpht at 6:43 PM on February 9, 2013
You can't make him change if he's set in his ways. And 41 is goddamn set in his ways. It'd take an act of god, or a come to jesus moment, to get him to change.
posted by kpht at 6:43 PM on February 9, 2013
And possibly more importantly should I just leave well enough alone and leave him to continue living the way he is or is it ok that I want to help him move towards his goal of having children?
People say a lot of things. It took me a long time to realize that sometimes people speaking about their hopes and dreams and desires just want to have that hope or dream or desire as just that, ideas to mull over. They don't really want to do the work or put in the time or whatever other challenge is standing between them and the thing. It's easy if you are a motivated (or a control freak type) person, as I am, to be all I CAN HANDLE THIS, YOU WANT KIDS WE'LL GET YOU KIDS and it's true that you could probably do that. However someone who has had this desire for how long? And hasn't been able to do anything about it for whatever reason on his own?
Even if you can turn this guy around, it doesn't seem like that will get you what you want. And based on your last question, my answer to this question is yes, absolutely, butt out of this. There's a small chance you could wind up with this man, and a child, and not live with his parents. There are many many ways this could go wrong for you, or him, or his parents. Life's too short to make things this complicated. Leave well enough alone.
posted by jessamyn at 7:09 PM on February 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
People say a lot of things. It took me a long time to realize that sometimes people speaking about their hopes and dreams and desires just want to have that hope or dream or desire as just that, ideas to mull over. They don't really want to do the work or put in the time or whatever other challenge is standing between them and the thing. It's easy if you are a motivated (or a control freak type) person, as I am, to be all I CAN HANDLE THIS, YOU WANT KIDS WE'LL GET YOU KIDS and it's true that you could probably do that. However someone who has had this desire for how long? And hasn't been able to do anything about it for whatever reason on his own?
Even if you can turn this guy around, it doesn't seem like that will get you what you want. And based on your last question, my answer to this question is yes, absolutely, butt out of this. There's a small chance you could wind up with this man, and a child, and not live with his parents. There are many many ways this could go wrong for you, or him, or his parents. Life's too short to make things this complicated. Leave well enough alone.
posted by jessamyn at 7:09 PM on February 9, 2013 [11 favorites]
This is the same guy that you've now asked about three times in a little over a month. For whatever reason, being close to him means that he swings wildly about like a metronome and you try and hold on for dear life and experience the physical symptoms as a result. This also triggers emotions similar to what you felt in a previous relationship. And it seems like you want to be impartial and help him become more like an adult. I don't think that's likely to happen.
I agree with the others that, if he hasn't lived on his own before now, that it will be very hard for him to do so at his age. I say this, having known two people very much like him.
I suggest that, if you don't want the same emotional roller coaster that occurred in your previous two questions, you back off.
You may want to visit with a therapist, with all your questions (with the answers), who can help you recognize and navigate more healthy interactions with others.
posted by SillyShepherd at 1:47 AM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I agree with the others that, if he hasn't lived on his own before now, that it will be very hard for him to do so at his age. I say this, having known two people very much like him.
I suggest that, if you don't want the same emotional roller coaster that occurred in your previous two questions, you back off.
You may want to visit with a therapist, with all your questions (with the answers), who can help you recognize and navigate more healthy interactions with others.
posted by SillyShepherd at 1:47 AM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I say this as a 42 year old who still lives in the parental home and who considers our setup healthy, and most people who know us also consider our setup to be healthy:
Nothing about this guy's domestic situation sounds appropriate to his age.
To me, he sounds like someone who has mental issues or is developmentally disabled, somehow, such that he has never really been quite up to living independently. However, as an Aspie that was partly to mostly true for me for quite a bit of my adult life - it's a fact for some people, not something that is inherently unhealthy either. A lot of people sweep their dependency needs under the rug by hopping from romantic relationship to romantic relationship, which can be way more unhealthy but because it's socially acceptable, the unhealthiness can be harder to spot.
So even taking that into account, your friend still sounds like he has an unhealthy relationship with his family. He sounds like he's really not emotionally an adult.
I think you know this, too. I was concerned about your previous relationship with him before, because I thought he sounded like a vulnerable person who couldn't take an equal place in an adult relationship. I still think that.
posted by tel3path at 10:10 AM on February 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
Nothing about this guy's domestic situation sounds appropriate to his age.
To me, he sounds like someone who has mental issues or is developmentally disabled, somehow, such that he has never really been quite up to living independently. However, as an Aspie that was partly to mostly true for me for quite a bit of my adult life - it's a fact for some people, not something that is inherently unhealthy either. A lot of people sweep their dependency needs under the rug by hopping from romantic relationship to romantic relationship, which can be way more unhealthy but because it's socially acceptable, the unhealthiness can be harder to spot.
So even taking that into account, your friend still sounds like he has an unhealthy relationship with his family. He sounds like he's really not emotionally an adult.
I think you know this, too. I was concerned about your previous relationship with him before, because I thought he sounded like a vulnerable person who couldn't take an equal place in an adult relationship. I still think that.
posted by tel3path at 10:10 AM on February 10, 2013 [2 favorites]
I have a cousin who is nearly forty and has always lived with his mom. He has cerebral palsy and has regularly had to have a lot of surgeries. He's very smart and has an advanced degree but his only friends have been made through the church and he has never dated.
His insurance costs nearly a thousand a month due to having so many procedures and health problems and he is noticeably different.
Sometimes disability and developmental delays are not visible or noticeable and a person might be perfectly functional in one area (intellect) and drastically behind in other areas (emotional) or vice versa. What' more there's a huge range of areas of development involved in being an adult other than "intellectual" and "emotional".
He has told me he would like to have a wife some day. I dream one day he meets one, who likes him just like he is and can see that he's really great with kids and really stellar person despite his disabilities. This would have to be someone interested in taking over areas of parenthood he may not be skilled at, but people in partnerships with kids do this kind of thing, compensate for disabilities or struggle areas in the other, and so long as things are on the up and up and no one is abusive they can often make a great family life.
Maybe this guy will find someone like that. It's up to him to either change himself to be more attractive to mates or find someone who likes him as he is. I can't see any reason under the sun why any of this should involve you.
His parents are treating him like a 41 year old son who hasn't grown up. While we all hope our parents will help us grow, sometimes little birds have broken wings that just aren't going to fly. A mother bird that can see this, might be doing right by her offspring simply making room in the nest and refraining from sending them off to their doom. Or she could judge the risks wrong, that happens too. That said, parents are only people, consider they have dealt with parenting their son for 41 years. The problems you describe with how they treat him hardly sound unloving or horribly dysfunctional but like people who are dealing with a kind of screwy situation. As a family. I would just back out of this entirely. I didn't read your previous questions relating to him, but their mention in the comments secures my personal read on this being, back away. His parents are obviously right there and he's well cared for. He might be less than ecstatic about his situation, but he sounds perfectly comfortable and well cared for such that you can safely move on from this and leave to him to his life. He'll be fine. There are worse lives that can be lived than never living independently but staying with a pretty loving if overly involved/patronizing family. He might never get to have kids. Some people don't. So? He can still live a pretty darn happy life if he makes one for himself and a pretty decent set of cards are on his table. If he wants to move out but doesn't have the skills to do that himself, it's not the end of the world. His situation is great compared to many people who can never really manage independent living. (Who wind up homeless, co-dependant, substance addicts, in group care situations that are depressing etc)
At this point in my life having lived through poverty and horrible working conditions and never being able to rise up, I certainly, unashamedly, would prefer to live with my folks if they wanted that too. It's a jungle out there. Not everyone can master it even with their best effort. I suggest you focus on surviving your own reality and making it as awesome as possible and leaving him to do the same with his.
posted by xarnop at 11:48 AM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
His insurance costs nearly a thousand a month due to having so many procedures and health problems and he is noticeably different.
Sometimes disability and developmental delays are not visible or noticeable and a person might be perfectly functional in one area (intellect) and drastically behind in other areas (emotional) or vice versa. What' more there's a huge range of areas of development involved in being an adult other than "intellectual" and "emotional".
He has told me he would like to have a wife some day. I dream one day he meets one, who likes him just like he is and can see that he's really great with kids and really stellar person despite his disabilities. This would have to be someone interested in taking over areas of parenthood he may not be skilled at, but people in partnerships with kids do this kind of thing, compensate for disabilities or struggle areas in the other, and so long as things are on the up and up and no one is abusive they can often make a great family life.
Maybe this guy will find someone like that. It's up to him to either change himself to be more attractive to mates or find someone who likes him as he is. I can't see any reason under the sun why any of this should involve you.
His parents are treating him like a 41 year old son who hasn't grown up. While we all hope our parents will help us grow, sometimes little birds have broken wings that just aren't going to fly. A mother bird that can see this, might be doing right by her offspring simply making room in the nest and refraining from sending them off to their doom. Or she could judge the risks wrong, that happens too. That said, parents are only people, consider they have dealt with parenting their son for 41 years. The problems you describe with how they treat him hardly sound unloving or horribly dysfunctional but like people who are dealing with a kind of screwy situation. As a family. I would just back out of this entirely. I didn't read your previous questions relating to him, but their mention in the comments secures my personal read on this being, back away. His parents are obviously right there and he's well cared for. He might be less than ecstatic about his situation, but he sounds perfectly comfortable and well cared for such that you can safely move on from this and leave to him to his life. He'll be fine. There are worse lives that can be lived than never living independently but staying with a pretty loving if overly involved/patronizing family. He might never get to have kids. Some people don't. So? He can still live a pretty darn happy life if he makes one for himself and a pretty decent set of cards are on his table. If he wants to move out but doesn't have the skills to do that himself, it's not the end of the world. His situation is great compared to many people who can never really manage independent living. (Who wind up homeless, co-dependant, substance addicts, in group care situations that are depressing etc)
At this point in my life having lived through poverty and horrible working conditions and never being able to rise up, I certainly, unashamedly, would prefer to live with my folks if they wanted that too. It's a jungle out there. Not everyone can master it even with their best effort. I suggest you focus on surviving your own reality and making it as awesome as possible and leaving him to do the same with his.
posted by xarnop at 11:48 AM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
I lived at home until I was 30 since I was saving up money to buy my own house. My parents treated me like an adult. I bought whatever I wanted and went wherever I wanted. I was in a middling job and struggled to get a better one. I dated and had relationships while living with my parents. They never interfered with anything I wanted to do. I had my own den, bathroom, and bedroom. They never would have dreamed to tell me how clean to keep my rooms.
The way this guy's parents are treating him sounds unhealthy to me as someone who lived at home for much longer than the norm.
On the other hand, is this guy happy? A close family friend lived at home his entire life (still lives in his childhood home even after his parents died) and seems perfectly happy. He is a lawyer and makes a great living. He cares about his career, buying artwork and sports cars, making money and little else. He has close friends, but never had a relationship. His lifestyle isn't the norm, but he is successful in his career and happy.
posted by parakeetdog at 12:30 PM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
The way this guy's parents are treating him sounds unhealthy to me as someone who lived at home for much longer than the norm.
On the other hand, is this guy happy? A close family friend lived at home his entire life (still lives in his childhood home even after his parents died) and seems perfectly happy. He is a lawyer and makes a great living. He cares about his career, buying artwork and sports cars, making money and little else. He has close friends, but never had a relationship. His lifestyle isn't the norm, but he is successful in his career and happy.
posted by parakeetdog at 12:30 PM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
However I'm aware that I may just be seeing things the way I am due to my different upbringing. So I thought I'd ask what other people think. Is the way his parents treat him more like a child than and adult or is it fairly normal[?]
It's "normal" in that it is not a rare arrangement, and it works for a lot of families. However, it is an arrangement that is not well adapted towards dating and having children in the 21st century in a western country with an advanced economy.
posted by deanc at 3:57 PM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's "normal" in that it is not a rare arrangement, and it works for a lot of families. However, it is an arrangement that is not well adapted towards dating and having children in the 21st century in a western country with an advanced economy.
posted by deanc at 3:57 PM on February 10, 2013 [1 favorite]
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This thread is closed to new comments.
This isn't really any of your, or the internet's business.
Even within the same family units, children are treated different (grown or not). My little brother lived with my parents for years after coming of age...I moved out and was financially independent when I was 19. They treat us very differently. There aren't hard rules for this, even within the same culture, or family.
You touched on it a little bit, but a better reframe of question, would be to ask him if he's happy with the situation or not. If not, then you progress from there. But as far as norms? Sure. It's totally normal for some people, in some contexts.
posted by furnace.heart at 2:49 PM on February 9, 2013 [3 favorites]