How do I handle a hoarder in my apartment building.

February 7, 2013 8:59 PM

What should I do about the hoarder who lives in my apartment building? Things seem to be getting worse.

Five months ago I moved to NYC and rented an apartment on the top floor of a five story walk-up. There are twenty units in the apartment - it's located in Chelsea and is fairly pricey but nothing outrageous. There's no doorman or elevator.

One of the apartments on the ground floor is rented by a hoarder. She seems to be about 70+ years old. When I first moved in, I often saw her moving a folding grocery cart full of random stuff and I generally tried to avoid her. She smells terrible, usually like human waste.

In recent weeks she's started leaving her door open and her apartment appears to be filled floor to ceiling with random things. She has started to leave her belongings in various piles throughout the entryway of the building. Here's a pic.

She's ambulatory but clearly disturbed. As a new tenant I put off calling police or social services because I thought it was none of my business and I wasn't sure that any change would improve things from the status quo. I haven't talked to the super but he comes in from time to time and pours bleach/cleaning solution in the lobby to get rid of the smell of human waste. He knows.

Now that things are escalating, what's the right thing to do? I don't want to punish her or make her life worse. Given that, I'm generally skeptical of 311 or the police having the resources to help - but is that bias misplaced? At the same time there's a human being falling apart in front of me and it's painful to watch, let alone the impact it has on living here. I'm one of the newest resident of the building - but she doesn't seem beloved or misunderstood. People avoid her as she comes in and the few times I've spoken with her she's mentioned incomprehensible things about helping the homeless and then points to her piles of trash. I'm generally lost.

posted by allen.spaulding to Human Relations (26 answers total)

Talk to the super its their job to deal with this.
posted by fshgrl at 9:01 PM on February 7, 2013 [4 favorites]

I'm not a New Yorker but if you don't get a response from other avenues, I'd try calling the fire department and asking for an inspection.
posted by zadcat at 9:05 PM on February 7, 2013 [3 favorites]

311 will contact the people who need to be involved.
posted by brujita at 9:09 PM on February 7, 2013 [4 favorites]

There's a management company, yes? I'd contact them, and then call 311 if that doesn't help.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:11 PM on February 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'd get in touch with the New York City Department for the Aging first, explaining the fact that your elderly neighbor seems to be at risk, and finding out if they have any resources that might help her stay in her apartment in a healthy way. If that bears no fruit, then I'd bring the issue to the attention of your landlord.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:12 PM on February 7, 2013 [24 favorites]

Yeah I'd probably call 311 first. A lot of times the magic words are "a piling of junk is blocking the stairway," which would generally get the fire department involved and they don't screw around.
posted by 2bucksplus at 9:12 PM on February 7, 2013 [6 favorites]

I'd start with the super or the management people. If that doesn't work I'd call the police and ask for a "well-being check." This is when people are concerned for the safety of others. Once they see the place and realize what it is like, they may get in touch with an agency that deals with elder issues. And agreeing with poster above, once they learn that the fire department might not be able to have access to her apartment or the building in general, they will take action.
posted by la petite marie at 9:14 PM on February 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

Ask the super about her; it's up to him to decide what to do about her. Your involvement comes down to a simple choice: Get involved, or not. If you decide, for some reason, that it's up to you to do something about the situation, you can go about it with compassion (getting to know the lady, seriously trying to understand whether she could just use a little help in her daily activities or whether she's truly unable to care for herself and needs intervention for Alzheimer's or something similar) or you can call the cops and go for eviction. If it were me, I'd start by talking to the super about her, even try to find out if there have been complaints from others who live on her floor. From there, I'd either leave it in the super's hands or begin to talk with the lady. There are thousands of elderly people living in similar circumstances, doing their level best to stay out of nursing homes; it works for awhile, but eventually someone takes over and changes things "for their own good." It's just the way it goes.
posted by aryma at 9:15 PM on February 7, 2013

I would go with 311 too. Not only will the address this more quickly from your perspective, they'll address it with the additional resources of social services for her. Property management might tell her to stop - obviously just being told to stop isn't going to fix it - and try to evict her over the longer term.
posted by decathexis at 9:15 PM on February 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

I would also call 311, mention concerns about her welfare first, but definitely emphasize risk to other residents, too.

If that did nothing, then I'd contact management/super about safety concerns.
posted by batmonkey at 9:16 PM on February 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

311 is super helpful in my experience. Start with them.
posted by sweetkid at 9:29 PM on February 7, 2013 [3 favorites]

She's mentally ill and needs help. Furthermore, she is creating all kinds of hazards for other people including fire and disease. Others have addressed the question of whom you should call. What I'm addressing is your feeling of not wanting to punish her or make her feel worse: you absolutely shouldn't feel that way because she's in bad shape and is dragging all of you into her unsafe world. It is not a sustainable situation and someone needs to change its course.
posted by Dansaman at 9:30 PM on February 7, 2013 [19 favorites]

I grew up in Chelsea and my parents still live there and manage our building and have had to deal with hoarders. You could start with 311, or stop by the 10th Precinct and talk to the community affairs officer, or call him at [phone]. If she is mentally impaired, you could also talk to the city's Adult Protective Services Manhattan South office at 212-279-5794.
posted by nicwolff at 9:32 PM on February 7, 2013 [33 favorites]

I know from experience the NYFD will not be happy about the hallway.

How you proceed is up to you.

I imagine the management and super already know about this, others have complained, there must be reasons they have not acted. I wonder what those are?

Answer that last question and let it direct your actions.

Anywhere else, and I would say consider moving. In Manhattan? Fight for safety and for this person to get help.


I really wonder what the reasons are for management and the super having done nothing so far. Clearly that tenant has been in residence for many many many years.

Hmmm?
posted by jbenben at 9:32 PM on February 7, 2013 [2 favorites]

"the few times I've spoken with her she's mentioned incomprehensible things about helping the homeless and then points to her piles of trash"

I'll bet you all a hundred bucks she's giving away things she doesn't want, hoping homeless people will take them away.* If you're the kind of person who can't stand to throw out "useful" things, it only makes sense to cater to your fellow curb crawlers. If you really want to help, why not offer to bag it for her and call Salvation Army for a pick-up? Toss the trash; everybody wins.


*In Williamsburg, people left all kinds of random stuff in our lobby under a "FREE! Give some, get some" sign somebody posted.
posted by doreur at 9:38 PM on February 7, 2013 [1 favorite]

APS allows you to do web referrals online on the HRA website. I don't think you can do them anonymously, but I do believe you can choose not to be contacted after the initial referral. Calling 311 will probably eventually lead to this, but it depends on how much initiative you want to take.

Hoarders are super common in NYC Housing Courts (they're often called "Collyer cases" after an infamous pair in Harlem) but they usually end up with the court making an APS referral and then the caseworker and psychiatrists evaluating the tenant and offering a voluntary (and free) heavy duty cleaning. There's often a lot of resistance. In particularly bad cases, HRA will move to have a permanent Guardian appointed who will try to relocate or manage the inacapicitated person. In Brooklyn, some judges will get in vans every few months to make home visits to make sure the tenants keep up on cleanliness- no joke. But that's management's decision, not yours. You can complain to management, but as said above, they are surely already aware.
posted by jenad at 9:53 PM on February 7, 2013 [4 favorites]

Although the New York City Hoarding Task Force is defunct, many of the resources listed are still useful. If you believe she is a danger to herself and others, a call to experts with the skills to evaluation the situation is appropriate. If she has children or other relatives, they maybe be unaware, and in either case, may be able to reach out to specialists, including gerontologists and other physicians, as well as professional organizers certified to specialize in providing services to hoarders.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 9:54 PM on February 7, 2013

I would contact the fire marshal. He solves all.
posted by QueerAngel28 at 1:32 AM on February 8, 2013

when I was doing legal services in NYC, the Department of Aging had a very good reputation. APS much less so.
posted by angrycat at 3:46 AM on February 8, 2013 [2 favorites]

I'll bet you all a hundred bucks she's giving away things she doesn't want, hoping homeless people will take them away.* If you're the kind of person who can't stand to throw out "useful" things, it only makes sense to cater to your fellow curb crawlers. If you really want to help, why not offer to bag it for her and call Salvation Army for a pick-up? Toss the trash; everybody wins.

I think this sounds like it. I have a problem throwing away "useful" things, but fortunately, I have a curb to put that shit on so if no one takes it, the Department of Sanitation will. Do you have a curb to put shit on? Can you talk to the super about posting a sign that says anything in the hallways will be moved to the curb? And then doing it?

Her own personal hoarding is not your business. Her public hoarding is.
posted by corb at 4:54 AM on February 8, 2013 [2 favorites]

Her own personal hoarding is not your business.

Personal hoarding is your business, especially if there are vermin, bugs, fire hazards and human waste involved.

If she was in a house by herself, I'd still want to help her, but I wouldn't be concerned about my own safety. Since she's in a multiple-tenant dwelling, her actions affect all of the other tenants.

I doubt very seriously that her hoard is free of roaches, ants, rodents, and other unsavory creepy crawlies. Her hoard may be flammable. That affects you. Her hoard my stink to high heaven, that affects you. Her hoard may include her actual shit. I'm going to let you cogitate about that.

We all have pity on hoarders, hoarding is clearly a sign of mental illness. But we can't let other people's crazy compromise our well-being.

Call 311 and the other excellent resources outlined here. Write a letter to the management company, she's destroying her apartment.

God-speed, getting involved here is the right thing, from EVERY angle.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:06 AM on February 8, 2013 [5 favorites]

nth calling 311. I have found NYC services to be very good.
posted by gaspode at 6:19 AM on February 8, 2013

I appreciate your compassion, as well as your quite reasonable concern. The hoarder's apt. is a fire danger, and provides a possible haven for roaches, mice and rats. If it smells like human waste, it may be a sanitation hazard; who knows what's really going on. Your neighbor may be too impaired to be getting adequate nutrition and otherwise take care of herself.

Call the super, the management company and 311.
posted by theora55 at 7:33 AM on February 8, 2013 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: I want to thank everyone for their input. Given the advice here, I'm going to call 311 or the department of aging once the blizzard has passed (I imagine they have more pressing issues this weekend). I'll post an update afterward.

There is a tough combination of wanting to be compassionate and not wanting to be involved/responsible. It sounds like making the call is the right thing to do. Thanks all.
posted by allen.spaulding at 10:55 AM on February 8, 2013 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Here's an update:

I called Adult Protective Services last week and had a frustrating intake process. As I was not the women's relative I lacked information to about 85% of the questions (I don't know if she's on meds, etc). However, the woman understod the situation and within a day there were notes posted at the door. One trying to schedule a meeting and the other finding us for blocked stairwells and improperly removed trash.

This morning I saw a woman from APS interviewing the old woman outside her apartment as I left the building. There was a third woman there, in her 60s, who seemed to be the old woman's daughter. They were discussing her meds and it seemed like they were recommending a new doctor as there was some agreement about a problem.

I don't know if this will have better outcomes but thanks all for the input.
posted by allen.spaulding at 6:57 AM on February 19, 2013

Just know aps is infamous for fucking things uo. If you suspect there solution is to let the woman get evicted and would like to do something else, Memail me and I can try to direct you to those lawyers involved w. a class action v. APS -- sometimes nothing brings results like a lawsuit
posted by angrycat at 7:09 AM on February 19, 2013