Friendships after relationships
February 4, 2013 8:18 PM Subscribe
I'm trying to figure out the best way to understand and handle the relationship between myself and a good friend who is also my ex. Snowflakes inside.
He is over a decade older than me; I am in grad school, extremely inexperienced in relationships, and we work in labs that are tight with one another.
I'd been good friends with this guy for two years, when we decided to date. He was newly out of another, very long relationship, and moving too fast for me, we had some problems, and in any case it looked like he was soon to complete his PhD thesis and move abroad; so I ended it after three months. At the time, I still liked him and hoped that we could work through our issues and try a relationship again sometime, when we were in a more stable place geographically and emotionally; I told him that when I broke up with him, and we discussed it at length. That was nearly two years ago.
The breakup went worse than I'd expected. He begged me to get back together, told me repeatedly that he was in denial and thought of us as being on break (which I angrily denied), and told me repeatedly that mutual friends that we work with were on his side and thought that we should be together. That subsided, and for about a month at a time he would be okay with me and friendly, and he would say that I had been right about things that I had said when we broke up. But then - often at the same time as he was under external work pressures - send me angsty e-mails or initiate heartfelt talks trying to talk about us, and telling me that he didn't understand why, just as though the previous conversations between us had never happened. He would still mention that our labmates were on his side (I tried to leave them out of it, but got a lot of support from them anyway). Five months after we'd broken up, he became very upset when I mentioned in casual conversation to a third person that a tent of theirs was only big enough for 'two people who love each other very much'. Each time, I was upset and, increasingly, angry, but as these conversations were rare I assumed that he would move on and they would stop soon. I was also frightened of drama spilling over into my work life. Each time, I withdrew a little more, stopping more and more contact outside the lab; and I told him that I would give him as much space as he needed, but we both knew that because of our labs - which are close both professionally and socially - this would be very difficult.
After six months, I told him that I wanted us to stop talking altogether until he got over me, for a minimum of six months. I told him that I never wanted to get back together with him again, but that if he wanted to be friends again once he was over me, I would be glad to do that. It was difficult; but he was busy with his thesis, and he stopped being invited to my lab's parties. We were as close to no contact as we could be for about nine months.
We started talking again about six months ago. We were both cautiously friendly, and I was clear that friendly was all that I was willing to be. We've hung out with mutual friends and labmates and done work stuff together. I've missed him; I definitely don't want to date him again, but I like seeing him happy, he's funny, interesting, and very kind and infinitely patient with friends and strangers alike. He has very low self-esteem, which I think is unjustified, and suffers from social anxiety. He has just landed a job abroad, so he will be leaving in May; I think he'll enjoy it, but because he is unused to living alone and hasn't lived in a non-English speaking country before, I think he'll be very lonely at first.
Yesterday, we were on the phone, and he was feeling depressed; I asked whether I could do anything, and he sighed and said, "Nothing that you want to do." He then told me that he still had feelings for me, but that he'd managed to separate in his head, as he put it, the me that was an awesome friend, and the me that was the girl of his dreams and that he still hopes to be with someday; that he wasn't okay with the breakup, but was okay with my being over him. I suggested going no contact again, but he told me that he felt he could handle it. He reassured me that he was not trying to get back together with me, and that he just wants to be friends in the time before he leaves. He also asked if we could Skype (as friends, he said again) once he was in his new home.
I don't know quite how to react. The fact that he's still bringing up our relationship after so many cycles of drama makes me angry; he could just keep it to himself, or tell me that we need to stop talking if it's too much. The fact that he's telling me to my face that he thinks we'll get back together, even if in the future, I find disrespectful given that I've said that that won't happen. On the other hand, I have a tendency to catastrophize and may be blowing it out of proportion; after all the context was of him trying to reassure me that he wasn't trying to hit on me, and that he appreciated us hanging out as friends again, and I can tell that he's trying. I would really like to save this friendship if at all possible; but how to proceed? Nip any hint of discussion about our relationship in the bud even if it seems harmless, or let things slide as long as the gist is that he's okay being friends, but risk encouraging him? What sort of boundaries should I be setting now? I can see him possibly idealizing both me and our relationship if he becomes lonely in his new home, and that might make it awkward being his friend then; how can I head that off?
Thanks Metafilter, you're the best!
He is over a decade older than me; I am in grad school, extremely inexperienced in relationships, and we work in labs that are tight with one another.
I'd been good friends with this guy for two years, when we decided to date. He was newly out of another, very long relationship, and moving too fast for me, we had some problems, and in any case it looked like he was soon to complete his PhD thesis and move abroad; so I ended it after three months. At the time, I still liked him and hoped that we could work through our issues and try a relationship again sometime, when we were in a more stable place geographically and emotionally; I told him that when I broke up with him, and we discussed it at length. That was nearly two years ago.
The breakup went worse than I'd expected. He begged me to get back together, told me repeatedly that he was in denial and thought of us as being on break (which I angrily denied), and told me repeatedly that mutual friends that we work with were on his side and thought that we should be together. That subsided, and for about a month at a time he would be okay with me and friendly, and he would say that I had been right about things that I had said when we broke up. But then - often at the same time as he was under external work pressures - send me angsty e-mails or initiate heartfelt talks trying to talk about us, and telling me that he didn't understand why, just as though the previous conversations between us had never happened. He would still mention that our labmates were on his side (I tried to leave them out of it, but got a lot of support from them anyway). Five months after we'd broken up, he became very upset when I mentioned in casual conversation to a third person that a tent of theirs was only big enough for 'two people who love each other very much'. Each time, I was upset and, increasingly, angry, but as these conversations were rare I assumed that he would move on and they would stop soon. I was also frightened of drama spilling over into my work life. Each time, I withdrew a little more, stopping more and more contact outside the lab; and I told him that I would give him as much space as he needed, but we both knew that because of our labs - which are close both professionally and socially - this would be very difficult.
After six months, I told him that I wanted us to stop talking altogether until he got over me, for a minimum of six months. I told him that I never wanted to get back together with him again, but that if he wanted to be friends again once he was over me, I would be glad to do that. It was difficult; but he was busy with his thesis, and he stopped being invited to my lab's parties. We were as close to no contact as we could be for about nine months.
We started talking again about six months ago. We were both cautiously friendly, and I was clear that friendly was all that I was willing to be. We've hung out with mutual friends and labmates and done work stuff together. I've missed him; I definitely don't want to date him again, but I like seeing him happy, he's funny, interesting, and very kind and infinitely patient with friends and strangers alike. He has very low self-esteem, which I think is unjustified, and suffers from social anxiety. He has just landed a job abroad, so he will be leaving in May; I think he'll enjoy it, but because he is unused to living alone and hasn't lived in a non-English speaking country before, I think he'll be very lonely at first.
Yesterday, we were on the phone, and he was feeling depressed; I asked whether I could do anything, and he sighed and said, "Nothing that you want to do." He then told me that he still had feelings for me, but that he'd managed to separate in his head, as he put it, the me that was an awesome friend, and the me that was the girl of his dreams and that he still hopes to be with someday; that he wasn't okay with the breakup, but was okay with my being over him. I suggested going no contact again, but he told me that he felt he could handle it. He reassured me that he was not trying to get back together with me, and that he just wants to be friends in the time before he leaves. He also asked if we could Skype (as friends, he said again) once he was in his new home.
I don't know quite how to react. The fact that he's still bringing up our relationship after so many cycles of drama makes me angry; he could just keep it to himself, or tell me that we need to stop talking if it's too much. The fact that he's telling me to my face that he thinks we'll get back together, even if in the future, I find disrespectful given that I've said that that won't happen. On the other hand, I have a tendency to catastrophize and may be blowing it out of proportion; after all the context was of him trying to reassure me that he wasn't trying to hit on me, and that he appreciated us hanging out as friends again, and I can tell that he's trying. I would really like to save this friendship if at all possible; but how to proceed? Nip any hint of discussion about our relationship in the bud even if it seems harmless, or let things slide as long as the gist is that he's okay being friends, but risk encouraging him? What sort of boundaries should I be setting now? I can see him possibly idealizing both me and our relationship if he becomes lonely in his new home, and that might make it awkward being his friend then; how can I head that off?
Thanks Metafilter, you're the best!
After reading your description of the break up, I would enforce strict boundaries and maintain a strictly professional relationship. You can not be friends as long as he still thinks you might get back together and this sounds like it will just start another cycle of drama. And you don't need that in your life again.
posted by florencetnoa at 8:43 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by florencetnoa at 8:43 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
You mentioned that you enjoy seeing him happy/being funny when hanging out in groups, but have you enjoyed any one-on-one contact that you've had with him since the breakup? Don't maintain friendships at a level you don't enjoy. I have friends ('friends') that I'm happy to see as part of a group but that for one reason or another I don't want to hang out with individually, and that's in most cases with no romantic history or tension.
posted by ecsh at 8:44 PM on February 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by ecsh at 8:44 PM on February 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
You can't be friends with someone whose just waiting to get back together with you. Cut the cord.
posted by Jubey at 8:46 PM on February 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 8:46 PM on February 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
He's already idealizing you and the relationship. Cut all contact, free yourself from this drama, and don't allow yourself to be sucked back into this rescue/validation dynamic.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:02 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 9:02 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think you're right to be concerned about this, and I don't think you can salvage a friendship... this guy is still in love with you even two years later.
You can't ask him about cutting off contact, because of course he doesn't want to. He has feelings for you. You'll have to drop the ax yourself, but it will be doing the right thing for him, even if it doesn't feel that way at the time.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:14 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
You can't ask him about cutting off contact, because of course he doesn't want to. He has feelings for you. You'll have to drop the ax yourself, but it will be doing the right thing for him, even if it doesn't feel that way at the time.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:14 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm close friends with an ex. It only works because he is also close friends with my husband (they were friends first actually), I'm close with his wife and we are completely and totally over each other. We had minimal contact for months until we'd moved on and we never ever ever talk about how we feel about each other because, well, that's kinda weird. I don't talk like that with my other friends (apart from "aw man, I love you!" stuff) so why would I with him. Why would I let him talk to me like that, if I wouldn't let anyone else do it? Meeping piteously at you about getting back together is not the act of a friend - it is manipulative for starters, but it's also unfair since he knows you don't want to. The friendly response to feelings for someone who doesn't return them is shutting the fuck up about it and handling that shit on your own, not warbling at them and hoping they wear down enough. Or not contacting them if you can't keep a lid on it.
He is not being your friend, that's why it isn't working.
posted by geek anachronism at 9:34 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
He is not being your friend, that's why it isn't working.
posted by geek anachronism at 9:34 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I usually have zero compassion, but honestly? I feel really bad for this guy. Hmm.
I wish you could remain friendly and supportive while dropping troublesome interactions like one-on-one hanging out, and especially, any phone calling. I realize this is not possible or wise.
He's leaving in May. I dunno.
I guess bringing the ax down now and go no-contact. This really is the way to go. It will give him a chance to process things and get prepared for his new life.
You're not to blame for his emotional state, and he's responsible for his own happiness.
It's the right thing to do, even though it sucks it had to turn out this way.
I'm sorry for you both. What a bummer. You're doing the right thing for the right reasons, I think that counts for a lot.
posted by jbenben at 9:41 PM on February 4, 2013
I wish you could remain friendly and supportive while dropping troublesome interactions like one-on-one hanging out, and especially, any phone calling. I realize this is not possible or wise.
He's leaving in May. I dunno.
I guess bringing the ax down now and go no-contact. This really is the way to go. It will give him a chance to process things and get prepared for his new life.
You're not to blame for his emotional state, and he's responsible for his own happiness.
It's the right thing to do, even though it sucks it had to turn out this way.
I'm sorry for you both. What a bummer. You're doing the right thing for the right reasons, I think that counts for a lot.
posted by jbenben at 9:41 PM on February 4, 2013
Oh dude, this guy's had a torch for you this whole time, and likely will until he meets someone else. You don't have to go no contact, but perhaps group contact only? And very, very brief "checking-in" type 1-1 communication, tops.
I appreciate your impulses here, but you can't be friends with someone who loves you - or thinks they do. It's cruel to them, annoying to you, just bad all round, really. If he ends up using you as an emotional crush whilst overseas, it will both intensify these feelings for you (she's the only one that understands me in a time when I am so, so alone), and also inhibit his making new friends (these new people don't understand me like she does, Ima go home and Skype)... *shudder*
posted by smoke at 11:09 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I appreciate your impulses here, but you can't be friends with someone who loves you - or thinks they do. It's cruel to them, annoying to you, just bad all round, really. If he ends up using you as an emotional crush whilst overseas, it will both intensify these feelings for you (she's the only one that understands me in a time when I am so, so alone), and also inhibit his making new friends (these new people don't understand me like she does, Ima go home and Skype)... *shudder*
posted by smoke at 11:09 PM on February 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your position is a difficult one. I recognise that you want to both be kind and prevent him from encroaching past your boundaries.
These are my suggestions (coming from my own experience of being on your ex's side of the story):
1) I would not suggest you outwardly telling him that you are no longer to be contacted. Nor will I suggest that you ignore all future contact with him.
2) Let him do all the contacting. Reply him with reasonable delay (not immediately) and cordially. No emoticons. He'll get the hint eventually.
3) Use only one medium of communication. I used Facebook messaging. Email is good too. No phone calls, Skype or any verbal/video form of communication. I would not recommend Whatsapp either (because he can see your online/offline status in real time).
4) If he brings up any relationship-related nostalgia or stuff that makes you uncomfortable, just say it's not appropriate to talk about it and so you won't. I would not recommend ignoring it. It's better to be direct.
Let him get used to not having close contact with you. I think it takes a year.
Nevertheless, you have to think about taking care of yourself first and foremost. If he's still being obtuse and is still talking about getting together with you after all you've done and after telling him that you'll never be together with him again under any circumstances, cut off all communication. At that point I'd say he's still not respecting your boundaries and will continue to disrespect them as long as he can get away with it. I'm not sure a friendship would be viable with someone who repeatedly breaches set boundaries.
Above all, don't blame yourself or make yourself responsible if he's hurting. He is responsible for his own feelings and dealing with his own problems. It is not your responsibility.
posted by rozaine at 11:16 PM on February 4, 2013
These are my suggestions (coming from my own experience of being on your ex's side of the story):
1) I would not suggest you outwardly telling him that you are no longer to be contacted. Nor will I suggest that you ignore all future contact with him.
2) Let him do all the contacting. Reply him with reasonable delay (not immediately) and cordially. No emoticons. He'll get the hint eventually.
3) Use only one medium of communication. I used Facebook messaging. Email is good too. No phone calls, Skype or any verbal/video form of communication. I would not recommend Whatsapp either (because he can see your online/offline status in real time).
4) If he brings up any relationship-related nostalgia or stuff that makes you uncomfortable, just say it's not appropriate to talk about it and so you won't. I would not recommend ignoring it. It's better to be direct.
Let him get used to not having close contact with you. I think it takes a year.
Nevertheless, you have to think about taking care of yourself first and foremost. If he's still being obtuse and is still talking about getting together with you after all you've done and after telling him that you'll never be together with him again under any circumstances, cut off all communication. At that point I'd say he's still not respecting your boundaries and will continue to disrespect them as long as he can get away with it. I'm not sure a friendship would be viable with someone who repeatedly breaches set boundaries.
Above all, don't blame yourself or make yourself responsible if he's hurting. He is responsible for his own feelings and dealing with his own problems. It is not your responsibility.
posted by rozaine at 11:16 PM on February 4, 2013
Cut it off and go no-contact. His drama is making ME tired. You must be exhausted.
posted by (F)utility at 11:17 PM on February 4, 2013
posted by (F)utility at 11:17 PM on February 4, 2013
The Skype thing is such a trap. Dig around Ask Metafilter, or any other relationship forum, and you'll find plenty of evidence that this kind of limerence (obsessive romantic love) can go on for decades or longer and that it can have real effects on peoples' happiness and decision-making. The idea that you can go no-contact for X days, Y months or Z years and then wham-bam be best friends all over again is not realistic and, frankly, not entirely fair to anyone involved. So long as there is a possible recontact period, he will be counting down the days and biding his time.
You've seen how much he's hurting and he's seen how much he's intruding on you, but you're both putting the ideal of "friendship first" over actual "do no harm."
He thinks that you two can get back together. To his mind, the only reasons why your relationship faltered were circumstantial and, unfortunately, your first explanation for the break-up reenforced that idea. It sounds like you've gone over the rest of it in the interim, but if you have any tendency to spare feelings or talk around an issue, that will no longer work. Kindness is no longer going to be kind.
"We can never get back together because your intense and intrusive behaviors have broken my trust. This will never change. I am not the same person that I was two years ago and I like who I am now and I like my independence. I do not want to hear about your love-feelings for me. If you feel compelled to tell me about your love-feelings, you will need to seek out a therapist to talk to about these things. Some people find comfort in writing a letter and destroying it without sending it. I don't want to be friends. I see you holding back in your life and it is clear that our friendship is holding us both back. I hope you find a new person to love and to be happy with. I'm not that person for you. Since we work in the same field, I'm sure we will see each other again and I hope that we can be professional and friendly at work. Certainly when we do run into each other, I will be interested in learning about your life and your accomplishments, but you should not interpret that as a renewal of our old patterns. We can be friendly without being friends."
No "I'm sorry," no back pedaling, no self-deprecation.
Enumerating the non-circumstantial reasons why you won't work is probably a bad idea because he will just be defensive and try to poke holes in each of them, but if you haven't actually done this for yourself yet, it would be a very useful exercise. It's a nice fantasy to be able to say to oneself, "we just didn't work out because of the timing," but it will seriously help your resolve and the firmness of your case if you make this list for yourself. You might get away with, "I've thought a lot about why we didn't work out and I have my own very unchanging reasons why we are not compatible. Those reasons are private to me and I wouldn't want to hurt you by telling you. Sufficeth to say, these reasons won't change and we each owe it to ourselves to make peace with what will never change."
"Love conquers all" is a really strong piece of social conditioning for all of us. "Friendship is the most important thing," is also a strong piece of social conditioning. His logic is that, if only he is true of heart and waits patiently until the stars align, he will get his second chance. Neither of these socially ingrained notions are doing either of you any good at this point and they both need to be dropped.
Limerence feeds on adversity and uncertainty. It ends when: 1) A new limerence with someone else begins (don't count on it, he's in too deep to be seeking this and if he found it, he'd probably talk himself out of it) 2) The uncertainty ends 3) The person experiencing limerence gives up (Also, don't count on it.) Your only leverage in this is to always act to end the uncertainty. You've told him "never" already and he's still pushed that boundary. For many people, limerence is analogous to being addicted to a person and it can be as powerful as other addictions. You may bad for him but directness, frankness and firmness are the only intervention.
The Wikipedia article on limerence is a pretty thorough start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence
posted by Skwirl at 12:20 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
You've seen how much he's hurting and he's seen how much he's intruding on you, but you're both putting the ideal of "friendship first" over actual "do no harm."
He thinks that you two can get back together. To his mind, the only reasons why your relationship faltered were circumstantial and, unfortunately, your first explanation for the break-up reenforced that idea. It sounds like you've gone over the rest of it in the interim, but if you have any tendency to spare feelings or talk around an issue, that will no longer work. Kindness is no longer going to be kind.
"We can never get back together because your intense and intrusive behaviors have broken my trust. This will never change. I am not the same person that I was two years ago and I like who I am now and I like my independence. I do not want to hear about your love-feelings for me. If you feel compelled to tell me about your love-feelings, you will need to seek out a therapist to talk to about these things. Some people find comfort in writing a letter and destroying it without sending it. I don't want to be friends. I see you holding back in your life and it is clear that our friendship is holding us both back. I hope you find a new person to love and to be happy with. I'm not that person for you. Since we work in the same field, I'm sure we will see each other again and I hope that we can be professional and friendly at work. Certainly when we do run into each other, I will be interested in learning about your life and your accomplishments, but you should not interpret that as a renewal of our old patterns. We can be friendly without being friends."
No "I'm sorry," no back pedaling, no self-deprecation.
Enumerating the non-circumstantial reasons why you won't work is probably a bad idea because he will just be defensive and try to poke holes in each of them, but if you haven't actually done this for yourself yet, it would be a very useful exercise. It's a nice fantasy to be able to say to oneself, "we just didn't work out because of the timing," but it will seriously help your resolve and the firmness of your case if you make this list for yourself. You might get away with, "I've thought a lot about why we didn't work out and I have my own very unchanging reasons why we are not compatible. Those reasons are private to me and I wouldn't want to hurt you by telling you. Sufficeth to say, these reasons won't change and we each owe it to ourselves to make peace with what will never change."
"Love conquers all" is a really strong piece of social conditioning for all of us. "Friendship is the most important thing," is also a strong piece of social conditioning. His logic is that, if only he is true of heart and waits patiently until the stars align, he will get his second chance. Neither of these socially ingrained notions are doing either of you any good at this point and they both need to be dropped.
Limerence feeds on adversity and uncertainty. It ends when: 1) A new limerence with someone else begins (don't count on it, he's in too deep to be seeking this and if he found it, he'd probably talk himself out of it) 2) The uncertainty ends 3) The person experiencing limerence gives up (Also, don't count on it.) Your only leverage in this is to always act to end the uncertainty. You've told him "never" already and he's still pushed that boundary. For many people, limerence is analogous to being addicted to a person and it can be as powerful as other addictions. You may bad for him but directness, frankness and firmness are the only intervention.
The Wikipedia article on limerence is a pretty thorough start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence
posted by Skwirl at 12:20 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
It is a terrible idea for exes to try to be friends if either party wants to get back together or still has feelings for the other. Walk away.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 5:43 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 5:43 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: From a practical standpoint I agree with everyone here saying that no-contact is the way to go (and yes, this is something you'll need to initiate, not something you ask him about), but if you're just not willing to go there quite yet, one thing you could do is establish very clear boundaries that absolutely refuse any relationship talk. Let him know that you're enacting a zero-tolerance policy for any more talk of how he wants to be with you - and then relentlessly follow through. Next time he brings it up, tell him you've already said you won't be discussing this any further, and then hang up the phone. Walk away when he tells you you're still the girl of his dreams. Never respond to such emails. More importantly: absolutely do not let passive, hinty garbage like the "Nothing you'd want to do" comment fly - end the conversation the moment he pulls that, or else he'll just use that tactic to make his points and try to suck you back in to the discussion while maintaining deniability.
Be really firm with this and don't allow room for discussion - it isn't up for negotiation and you have every right to not be subjected to his feelings for you. If he adjusts to interacting with you like an actual friend under these constraints then he gets to stay; if he tries to argue or continually "forgets" or "slips up" then you'll know he's not really interested in being a friend but just wants to ooze back into a relationship with you.
Again, though, I have my guesses about how this will play out, and am only suggesting this if you're not yet ready to cut him off entirely. The fact that he's gone this far after you guys only dated for three blasted months suggests that nothing other than no-contact will work in the long run, but I do understand that sometimes it takes a while to really be able to commit to that.
posted by DingoMutt at 7:54 AM on February 5, 2013
Be really firm with this and don't allow room for discussion - it isn't up for negotiation and you have every right to not be subjected to his feelings for you. If he adjusts to interacting with you like an actual friend under these constraints then he gets to stay; if he tries to argue or continually "forgets" or "slips up" then you'll know he's not really interested in being a friend but just wants to ooze back into a relationship with you.
Again, though, I have my guesses about how this will play out, and am only suggesting this if you're not yet ready to cut him off entirely. The fact that he's gone this far after you guys only dated for three blasted months suggests that nothing other than no-contact will work in the long run, but I do understand that sometimes it takes a while to really be able to commit to that.
posted by DingoMutt at 7:54 AM on February 5, 2013
Response by poster: I wrote him an e-mail today acknowledging that he seemed to be moving closer to getting over me, but letting him know that if we were to remain friendly with one another he needed to completely stop any references to us getting together again, and any passive aggressive hints at his feelings.
After I'd sent the e-mail, I ran onto him on the bus. He told me that he was still composing a reply, but rushed to reassure me that he hadn't meant to overstep my boundaries and wanted to remain only friends.
Right after he said that, he told me, with a complete lack of guile, that he had been (until my e-mail) planning on being the best friend that he could be during my thesis completion, as kind and supportive as possible - in the hope that I would then come back to him. As we arrived at my stop, he begged me to let him believe that we can get back together again someday.
I'm so very sad and angry right now. I don't think he even understands why I'm hurt. I'm going to read his e-mail reply on the offchance that I radically misunderstood him - but I don't think I did. I will send him this comic: http://xkcd.com/513/, and then cut off contact. Thanks so much for all of your answers.
posted by jlibera at 7:55 PM on February 5, 2013
After I'd sent the e-mail, I ran onto him on the bus. He told me that he was still composing a reply, but rushed to reassure me that he hadn't meant to overstep my boundaries and wanted to remain only friends.
Right after he said that, he told me, with a complete lack of guile, that he had been (until my e-mail) planning on being the best friend that he could be during my thesis completion, as kind and supportive as possible - in the hope that I would then come back to him. As we arrived at my stop, he begged me to let him believe that we can get back together again someday.
I'm so very sad and angry right now. I don't think he even understands why I'm hurt. I'm going to read his e-mail reply on the offchance that I radically misunderstood him - but I don't think I did. I will send him this comic: http://xkcd.com/513/, and then cut off contact. Thanks so much for all of your answers.
posted by jlibera at 7:55 PM on February 5, 2013
Response by poster: Also, geek anachronism, 'Meeping piteously' made me laugh all day, thank you!
posted by jlibera at 8:00 PM on February 5, 2013
posted by jlibera at 8:00 PM on February 5, 2013
Ugh. Yeah. In light of your update it sounds like saying goodbye is the only way to go. I guess on the bright side, at least he didn't leave you room to second-guess yourself - when someone flat-out demonstrates they have no intent of respecting your wishes or boundaries like that, you've got to believe them.
Still, it sucks. I'm sorry for you, and I'm sorry he chose to not be friends with you.
posted by DingoMutt at 7:01 AM on February 6, 2013
Still, it sucks. I'm sorry for you, and I'm sorry he chose to not be friends with you.
posted by DingoMutt at 7:01 AM on February 6, 2013
It's probably too late, but DO NOT send him that XKCD comic. DO NOT DO THAT.
The hidden message that he will agonize over for weeks/months/possibly years will be the panel that says, "And in a moment of weakness. And loneliness. You'll Give In."
This is not a time to be cutesy or whimsical or share obscure references and just assume that he understands them. He is not a mind reader and, in fact, he is in a state of grief where he is not capable of interpreting what you're trying to tell him oh-so-cleverly.
He is purposefully looking for reasons to disbelieve the other things that you have told him. Do not ever give him any subtle message that can be misinterpreted. He will absolutely take the misinterpretation to heart. Every time.
Do not use other peoples' words. Do not send comic strips or music or anything sentimental. Be direct. Use your own words. Always repeat the exact same message as if you were telling a 9 year old or instructing a robot. He is not thinking clearly about this.
This may sound like an exaggeration or an over-reaction, but I have seen this happen enough times to know that anything other than direct, straight-forward communication will fail very, very badly.
posted by Skwirl at 11:53 AM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
The hidden message that he will agonize over for weeks/months/possibly years will be the panel that says, "And in a moment of weakness. And loneliness. You'll Give In."
This is not a time to be cutesy or whimsical or share obscure references and just assume that he understands them. He is not a mind reader and, in fact, he is in a state of grief where he is not capable of interpreting what you're trying to tell him oh-so-cleverly.
He is purposefully looking for reasons to disbelieve the other things that you have told him. Do not ever give him any subtle message that can be misinterpreted. He will absolutely take the misinterpretation to heart. Every time.
Do not use other peoples' words. Do not send comic strips or music or anything sentimental. Be direct. Use your own words. Always repeat the exact same message as if you were telling a 9 year old or instructing a robot. He is not thinking clearly about this.
This may sound like an exaggeration or an over-reaction, but I have seen this happen enough times to know that anything other than direct, straight-forward communication will fail very, very badly.
posted by Skwirl at 11:53 AM on February 9, 2013 [1 favorite]
Another way to think about this is the old AskMe classic, "always believe what another person tells you (or shows you) about themselves." The thing is, this idea works both ways. The burden of responsibility should be on him to believe what you've said, but he has clearly shown that he is not capable of that maturity. That tells you something.
He's told you straight-up that he can't even handle hearing and believing your direct message. This is addictive behavior. He said outright that he wants to believe the lie that he's been telling himself. This is no different than an addict who is in denial.
The only way to deal with someone with this kind of problem is to keep reenforcing the same message and backing up that message with consequences (i.e. ending your friendship and ending contact).
Losing a friend is very sad and I hope you can take care of yourself during this time. This is a really common dynamic between two people that a lot of people have experienced. You're doing a good job of navigating these difficult interactions -- most people avoid difficult conversations like the plague so any conversation is better than the alternative. Taking the steps to explain your side of things to him is really all you can do. He has to choose to take the other steps and it's a journey you can't be a part of, all you can do is communicate clearly and consistently.
posted by Skwirl at 12:18 PM on February 9, 2013
>As we arrived at my stop, he begged me to let him believe that we can get back together again someday.
He's told you straight-up that he can't even handle hearing and believing your direct message. This is addictive behavior. He said outright that he wants to believe the lie that he's been telling himself. This is no different than an addict who is in denial.
The only way to deal with someone with this kind of problem is to keep reenforcing the same message and backing up that message with consequences (i.e. ending your friendship and ending contact).
Losing a friend is very sad and I hope you can take care of yourself during this time. This is a really common dynamic between two people that a lot of people have experienced. You're doing a good job of navigating these difficult interactions -- most people avoid difficult conversations like the plague so any conversation is better than the alternative. Taking the steps to explain your side of things to him is really all you can do. He has to choose to take the other steps and it's a journey you can't be a part of, all you can do is communicate clearly and consistently.
posted by Skwirl at 12:18 PM on February 9, 2013
You seem to be a caring person and have done everything in your power to end any hope this guy might have for you two getting back together- but I still empathize with him a bit. With that being said, I wouldn't skype with him. My ex coldly cut me off when he ended things and left me without closure. Although it was hard, the no contact was really the best route and helped me get over him. It sucks losing a friend, but this guy needs to embrace the loneliness for a bit, heal himself and move on. Especially because he jumped right into a relationship with you after his last one.
posted by Butterflye1010 at 9:53 AM on March 8, 2013
posted by Butterflye1010 at 9:53 AM on March 8, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by discopolo at 8:41 PM on February 4, 2013 [8 favorites]