How to deal with frustration toward a very sensitive and anxious friend

January 28, 2013 8:05 PM

I have a friend who gets extremely sensitive and anxious outside her comfort zone. Sometimes it gets to be too much for me. How to deal?

"Susie" and I are part of a circle of friends which is mostly male. We are the only two females in this circle. I have built a one-of-the-guys friendship with them while Susie takes a more girly role. That's cool with me and I like her a lot, she is a smart and witty person.

The group planned a day where we would do a challenging hike in the morning and afternoon, then a loud, raucous and wild concert in the evening. This is outside of Susie's comfort zone, but she was enthusiastic about joining. The problems started a few days beforehand. I fielded several anxious calls from Susie on what to pack, if she was bringing the right types of shoes and what kinds of shoes would be better, if she was bringing enough water, if she was bringing too much.

On the morning, Susie and I biked together to the hiking spot. The entire way, she brought up one anxiety or complaint after the next. What if she hiked slowly? Would they be mad at her? Maybe they would wish she hadn't come. What if she got poison ivy. I tried to reassure her that if she needed to go slow I would stay with her and nobody would be mad at her. She turned it around on me. What if I couldn't keep up? What should she do? Would I be okay? I assured her that everything would be okay. Then as we were biking, her legs started hurting, her shoes started pinching. The problems kept popping up like whack a mole.

We met up with everyone else at the hiking spot, and decided the two best hikers should split off and go faster, on a harder route. This made Susie extremely anxious. Would they be okay? Did they have enough water? These guys have been very experienced hikers since their early teens. Then Susie started asking if anyone needed to go potty? If anyone needed something to eat? Were they sure? Were they sure?? Everyone in this group is in their mid 20's to early 30's, it is not a group of kindergarteners.

She started offering to suffer in random ways like saying "Are you sure you don't ned anything to eat before we start? You can have some of my food. I do have some extra. I mean, I only have a sandwich and an orange for lunch, but I'm used to not eating much. Really. Here, you should have it." Everyone assured her they were fine.

We started hiking. Over the course of the hike, Susie began to pick at me. She started picking at my footwear choice! Quote: "Aren't your footsies hurting in those shoes?" It was not my favorite question of the day. I said that I was fine. Along the trip I started eating some licorice I had with me. I think Susie might have some anxiety about food and my candy eating really triggered it (she keeps herself on an extremely strict diet.) "Oh honey! You can't just go through the day eating licorice! Here. Have an orange. I only brought one, but I don't mind going without. Really." I assured Susie I had plenty of food with me and I was eating licorice because I felt like it. "Honey! It's so unhealthy! Please eat something else. Please." We went back and forth like that about 5 times. I stopped eating my licorice because it was bothering her so much, but did not feel like eating anything else. "Honey, why did you stop eating? Aren't you hungry? Are you okay???" Later in the hike I pulled out some beef jerky and started eating that and we had to have the same conversation again.

I will try to summarize the rest of the main issues.

#1 "Are you sure???" Every time she got anxious about something and people reassured her, or she offered something and people declined, we had to go through several rounds of "are you sure???" It's fine at first but when we start to get delayed because we need to spend 5 minutes on "are you sure???" it gets to be too much.

#2 Making you guess her needs, and dragging that process out. "Oh dear. How are you all feeling?" "Okay, how are you feeling Susie?" "Oh, I'm okay too... yes, I'm okay." "Is there anything you need Susie?" "Oh no. No. I mean, it's okay." "What is the matter Susie?" "Nothing, I'll be fine." After 5 minutes it comes out that Susie wants to stop for a water break. "Okay sure, let's stop and have some water?" "Are you SURE?? I mean, I don't need to. I only want to stop if YOU want to."

#3 Acting like she is putting others ahead of her in a way that actually makes things harder for everyone else. Carpooling from the site of the hike to the concert, we have gone through a round of #2 and found out Susie needs use the bathroom badly. We stop, and we have to go through a round of "Are you sure" while Susie asks everyone if they need to go to the bathroom before her. By the time we are done with "Are you sure," half the people in the car could have been finished using the bathroom.

#4 Ending up in an emotional meltdown if you do not guess her needs. I think a lot of people will say, "Hey just stop guessing her needs and trying too hard to accommodate her and let the chips fall where they may." This is what happened when I tried that. We got to the concert and all the guys decided to go up to the front of the stage, where there was some wild and aggressive dancing going on. Susie was enthusiastic about this until we started making our way to the front, and all of a sudden started talking about all sorts of unrelated things that she was upset or nervous about (feet hurting, headache, etc.) I asked if she was okay and she didn't want to go to the front of the concert. She eventually said she didn't want too because it was too aggressive. I offered to stay with her and as expected, she said I should go on ahead. The guys had already gone. I really wanted to go up there and it was the whole reason I had come, so I said okay, but I would come back after two songs and hang out with her again.

I came back after 2 songs and could not find her, when I finally found her she was sitting by herself in the lobby sobbing. She said everyone must hate her and she should never have come, and she should have known she couldn't do something like go up to the front of the stage, and she was missing the good time everyone was having. We had a huge friend Chuck with us who is something like 6'5" and 300 lbs, and I said that we could get Chuck to protect her, and I usually stand in Chuck's shadow myself to avoid getting thrown around. When I said that she suddenly got furious and snapped at me, saying that was okay for me since I was 5'6" but it wouldn't be okay for her since she was only 5'2". When she snapped at me I felt very frustrated and weary and I did not know what to do.

Then our other friend Mike came out to go to the bathroom. Susie has a crush on Mike and then she was all smiles. Mike came over, heard the situation and offered to block anyone from pushing Susie. Well, she was happy to do it after that.

But then the whole way home all she talked about was all the things that she had been scared of, all the bad things that could have happened but didn't, all the bad things that did happen, how much relaxing it would take the next day (Sunday) to calm down from this, etc.

I have a stressful job during the week and I like doing these things with my friends to relax. When Susie is stressing constantly it really brings my stress level way up. Especially when she starts picking me about what I am wearing or eating or things like that, I am a very independent and competent person when it comes to things like hiking and it ruffles my feathers to be asked those kinds of questions. She doesn't pick at the guys for what they are eating. It also ruffles my feathers when she gets mad and snaps at me.

It is also stressful when we can't make decisions or get way behind schedule for everything because we have to have long discussions about nonexistent problems and go through many rounds of are you sure.

The thing is I really like Susie and she has a lot of good qualities even if I am just talking about these stressful incidents here. It is just hard when she gets out of her comfort zone. I also feel like it's harder than me than on the guys because she expects different things out of me. But if I didn't prevent the emotional outbursts then they would happen and it would ruin the whole vibe of the day. I just want to have fun with my friends, this is why I like hanging out with these guys because they are all independent and we don't have to do a lot of caretaking of each other.

posted by Sock of Silliness to human relations (44 answers total)

When I saw the first line of your question, I was all set to tell you to try and be a little more sympathetic about her phobias, but my god, she sounds extremely exhausting and tedious.

I have a stressful job during the week and I like doing these things with my friends to relax. When Susie is stressing constantly it really brings my stress level way up. Especially when she starts picking me about what I am wearing or eating or things like that, I am a very independent and competent person when it comes to things like hiking and it ruffles my feathers to be asked those kinds of questions. She doesn't pick at the guys for what they are eating. It also ruffles my feathers when she gets mad and snaps at me.

I think you need to say pretty much this exact paragraph to her. I don't imagine it will be a pleasant confrontation but I don't see any other way of doing this that is both honest and has a chance of being effective.
posted by elizardbits at 8:16 PM on January 28 [7 favorites]

Why in the name of all that is holy are you coddling this woman??


Can't you just tell her to knock it off? I mean, it would be for her own good.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:20 PM on January 28 [11 favorites]

Why in the name of all that is holy are you coddling this woman??

Just to answer this because I think other people must be wondering it, it is because if I didn't do it, then she would have her emotional meltdowns, and when someone is sitting there sobbing, that makes everyone pretty uncomfortable. You can just ignore that, everyone needs to stop what they are doing and fix the situation. I don't want all my fun outings to turn into fixing the situation. (I also can't control who comes to these outings.)
posted by Sock of Silliness at 8:24 PM on January 28

Oh God, I felt *my* agitation and frustration building just from reading that. It sucks because people like this are extremely anxious, and they want to deal with their anxiety by controlling all the things, and it’s exhausting. I have a friend who can pull some of this shit, though to a somewhat lesser degree. She would always wonder if we were eating out if I was eating enough, or did I really want to order that?? Really- that? She also was concerned about my choice of outerwear, my choice of footwear, my sunscreen application, etc.

The way I handled it was by telling her (in a joking way) “I am only going to allow one question about my physical well-being. That includes food choices, coats and shoes, sunscreen, rest, etc.” And then when she invariably started I would say (still jokingly) “Do you want that to be your one question?” She would kind of laugh and then I would answer the question sincerely and honestly. When she tried to start up again, I would say “Sorry, you’ve already used up your one question!” and then refuse to answer any further inquiries on the topic.

I know this sounds kind of harsh, but it actually worked, and now it’s a kind of a running joke with us. The other day she texted me “Did you get your flu shot? And btw, yes, I want this to be my one question!”
posted by aviatrix at 8:29 PM on January 28 [71 favorites]

You don't necessarily have to confront Susie about the way she acts. It's extraordinarily difficult (and can be rather painful too) to attempt to change the way another person acts. What's much, much easier is to work to control the way you react to Susie when she's stressed out. Or even control your exposure to her neediness.

You say you're one of the guys in this group of friends? Well, just because you're actually a girl doesn't mean Susie can default to haranguing you when she's outside of her comfort zone. It's really compassionate of you to want to be there for your friend when you notice she's getting anxious and worrisome, but holding back and just taking it passively only validates her concerns. Either remove yourself from the position of being her worrystone and let someone else step in (Mike?), or use your words to confront her about the way you feel.

There are lots of linguistic/social shortcuts you can use to defuse the 'Are you sure?' loop.
"Did I stutter?"
"Are YOU sure?" (If possible, just go back and forth with this one until she starts sobbing again.)
"I am confident in my choices and do not require further validation."
"Is there something I'm missing?" (Because there is, you realize! You're missing whatever it is she thinks you oughta know, even if you know.)

Most of this just winds up as some version of 'being short' with her. Depending (a lot) on you and how you go about it, there's not a lot of joy down this route.

You could try showing her the Ask Culture vs. Guess Culture dichotomy, because if anything it clearly elucidates the communication problem between folks like her and folks like you (I think).

You could also trying saying something along the lines of, "Susie, you're my friend and I care about you. I want you to know that if there's ever anything you need it's never, ever too much for you to ask me for it. Don't hesitate, don't second guess my response, and just come out with it. If I can help you get what you want, I will. If I can't it's not because your request is unreasonable (necessarily), but only because I literally am unable. But only I can tell you if I am capable of helping you or not, so please just ask me."
posted by carsonb at 8:31 PM on January 28 [4 favorites]

I have little patience for behavior like this, but here's what I'd do. Stop taking responsibility for her. That's what you are doing, and you need to stop immediately. You are not her mother or her caretaker. She is an adult.

Stop inviting her to things that are outside her comfort zone, if you can. If she gets invited or expresses interest in doing something outside her comfort zone, DO NOT take responsibility for her during the event. Notice how your guy friends do what they want? You do that, too. Oh sure, if she's already in said situation (this applies to any situation out of her comfort zone), and she changes her mind about being there, that's fine. She's an adult (I assume) and can make the decision to leave or take a break from the situation. When you stumble upon her "sobbing in the lobby" later? Just logic the SHIT out of her. Defeat her weird assumptions and illogical reasoning. Act like your behavior is normal (though, I'm not necessarily saying you act like hers is crazy, I just mean that you should respond to her reaction with surprise, not with sympathy and apologies.)

(Usually when someone I know wanders off in a concert or other crowded venue, I text them "where you at?" and they respond. I don't send out a search party or go into a panic searching for them, unless we're alone in a foreign city or something similar.) Unless she is a child, don't run off after her. You are just feeding her fire.

Immediately, right now, you must treat her the way you treat your other friends. If she can't take responsibility for herself, no one else, including you, will!

When someone criticizes something I'm eating, they usually gets a very stern "I eat what I want. Mind your own dang business." With further criticism, a "shut the hell up about it already" or "I give zero fucks about what you think about my diet/what I'm eating right now" will usually do the trick. On preview, I like carsonb's suggestions, too.
posted by two lights above the sea at 8:41 PM on January 28 [45 favorites]

I work with kids. In one of my groups, there is a 4 year old who gets upset at everything. One day it was because she thought someone had spelled her name with an R, one day it was because I put the hood of her coat on her head because her arms were full. Sometimes she complains of having no friends to play with, even though numerous specific children have been suggested, been asked if they will play with her, and they have said yes. She turns them all down, and cries instead.

Gradually, once it was determined that she was not physically hurt, or that another child had not done something to her, we ignored her outbursts. We've encouraged her to be more independent, to try to do more on her own, and to use her "big girl voice" when talking or asking for help. She has shown great improvement.

I recommend the same treatment for your friend, because she's behaving like this 4 year old.
posted by booksherpa at 8:54 PM on January 28 [14 favorites]

Your friend's anxiety sounds very distracting and enervating. It seems as though she has trouble asserting her own needs and thinks she will have value, as a person, if she cares for everyone else.

Maybe your friend would find some guidance for development in a book on codependency.
posted by Kerasia at 8:57 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]

I once had a friend like this. It crept in bit by bit until I realized our conversations had become monopolized by her anxiety. I could barely tolerate being around her so I started spending less time with her, until we became acquaintances with a close history. Over time, she became more independent, more emotionally mature and self-reliant, and evidently developed better coping techniques for her anxiety. (FWIW, we're good friends again.)

Part of the problem is that she's in a pattern with you -- that pattern needs to be broken. You can't be her caretaker. Can you spend less time with her? Do you only hang out with her when you're in this circle of friends? I'm hesitant to recommend that you explain your feelings to her directly; I avoided that with my friend because I knew it would add to her anxiety and not help. Perhaps a less fraught route would be to point her in directions of boosting her self-confidence? Say, suggest she sign up for ___ classes? (Indoor climbing, improv, Toastmasters, something that'll challenge her anxieties but be supportive.) Maybe something that you really enjoyed and you think she might? Or tell her about some mindfulness book you heard about? It won't be easy at first, but if you alter how you interact with her, she'll be forced to change as well, and it'll get easier.
posted by mayurasana at 9:03 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]

There is so much gender fuckery here, and I say that as a honest to girl girly-girl. It sounds like a lot of this "anxiety" is faux girly-girl bullshit, to engender attention. And to further paint you as "one of the boys" while she plays pretty pretty princess.

Quit enabling her bullshit. It's keeping you from having a good time.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 9:03 PM on January 28 [47 favorites]

gotta voice a differing opinion, she sounds like a peach to me - seriously. she's just getting attention and mewing like a kitten. if you can somehow see how funny it is, the one time you tease her a little, with just the right sense of humor behind it, wham, she laughs at herself and the whole game is over. seriously, i know off the top of my head like 300 people with more annoying personal styles than this. i can tell you by personal experience that 1) it's possible not to take anything like this remotely personally and 2) when you can pull that off, all sorts of fun and non-annoying possibilities present themselves.
posted by facetious at 9:15 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]

Since you consider her to be a good friend, you could consider sitting down with her and telling her very frankly and honestly your observations about her behavior and your concern that it makes life very stressful for her (and you). You could tell her that you are being so frank because you believe that's what friends are for...only a true friend will care enough, and have enough courage, to do that. If she appreciates it, then she may work on changing her behavior. If she's defensive, well you may not have much to lose because she's driving you crazy and a little distance might be called for anyway.
posted by Dansaman at 9:16 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]

when someone is sitting there sobbing, that makes everyone pretty uncomfortable. You can just ignore that, everyone needs to stop what they are doing and fix the situation.

Yeah, actually you can and should ignore it. Whether it's coming from a good place or not you are facilitating and enabling this crazy bullshit by pandering to it.

There are a few people in my social group and life with some anxiety issues that can manifest in astonishingly irritating ways when they are out of their comfort zone. There are two ways to deal with this - 1) put them back into their comfort zones, or attempt to by addressing the source of their anxieties, not their silly theatre, which never has anything to do with their actual concerns, which are almost always social in nature; or 2) Ignore their theatre and model the behaviours that you expect to see.

Personally, I try to do a combination of both. Number one can sometimes be done directly ("Friend, everyone is so happy you were able to come along; there's no need to be nervous"), sometimes obliquely ("Friend, what do you think about so-and-so? I admire your confidence in these situations and would appreciate your advice"). Likewise, 2, can be done directly ("Friend, stop doing that Annoying Thing you are doing. It is annoying and is making you look foolish."), or obliquely (Not responding to any drama, responding to reasonable, normal things only).

I think you're right that this is a gender thing; your guy friends are putting the onus for dealing with this on you as a woman. But I would also say that you could consider making this their problem, it's not yours. It will not get better unless the source of the anxiety is addressed. You are exacerbating it with your current behaviours. Additionally, for our group, a) high maintenance friends might get less invites in general, and b) they only get invites to situations they will do well in.
posted by smoke at 9:23 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]

I know someone like this. In her case, it has nothing to do with anxiety (although that's a good cover). It has to do with being able to control or manipulate a group of people, down to dictating what they do and don't eat, or what topic of conversation they are allowed to have, and really relishing that. For her the constant whingeing and anxiety is about always being the centre of attention, the focus of the group - it's a power play. The things in your question sound really familiar to me and that's why I agree with 2soxy4mypuppet, and would enact a complete refusal to engage with her on these terms. As mentioned above, you are not responsible for her and not her caretaker. None of the boys are doing this much damage control, and the most telling thing is her behaviour changes around the guy she likes. Don't feed her constant need for attention and let the group get pissed off enough with her so she doesn't get invited out enough to spoil any more of your precious weekend down-time.

The person I know would be happy to hear she had caused one or more of us stress in our personal time. I doubt your friend is really that conniving, but even if she were the most lovely innocent person in the world, I would frame this to her as her problem that she must sort out in order fit in with the rest of the group. Say you are concerned about her, and her mental health. Suggest a therapist. If she's playing you it'll piss her off to lose her precious social status, if she's a sweet and lovely person it would help her to be calm and better friends to all of you. Win/Win.
posted by everydayanewday at 9:27 PM on January 28 [22 favorites]

Yeah wow, seconding that I was fully expecting that this was going to be all about you being too hard on her, but this behavior sounds annoying as shit! Do you need to invite her to these things that are outside her comfort zone? Maybe she's just not a friend you go hiking with. That's okay. You can get lattes together instead.

When an adult has a tantrum like that, all you can really do is ignore them. Their motivation is the same as a two-year-old's-- they want attention. You're not responsible for her feelings.
posted by sonmi at 9:29 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]

Everyone will likely have a different read on this question. I agree that what your friend is putting you through sounds annoying and tiresome. But, I guess I'm reading her as deserving considerable pity.

She sounds sick, to me. What you describe sounds, to me, like someone who is only very barely making it through life, thanks to crippling anxiety. It's not normal for someone to sit in the lobby of a concert, sobbing. That's not what a well-adjusted person does. A happy person does not ask "are you surrree????" forever while having to go to the bathroom so bad that the whole group has had to stop. That's just not a healthy way of living.

Now, if your friend is in trouble, that doesn't make it your responsibility to keep her happy. You don't owe her your constant assurances and support. She's her own adult. But, all the same, it may be worthwhile for you to consider discussing this with her. Some sort of, "You know, your anxiety really seems like it's hurting the quality of your life. Have you ever spoken to someone about it?" Or something. Maybe, it could be the push that she needs.

....But, again, mine is just one out of many different reads on your friend's behavior. Maybe I'm reading into your question -- let me note I am someone who deals with anxiety and depression, and many of your friend's behaviors are things I could imagine doing (albeit, your descriptions are much worse than what I've ever been through). I don't know. It's up to you to decide, given the considerable greater evidence you have, who here has correctly interpreted the situation. But if it makes sense to you that this might not just be some "Oh, she's annoying!" issue but instead closer to "holy shit, this is disturbing" thing, then you may want to consider whether you're in any position to help her.

Keep in mind, though: helping her does not mean coddling her. It does not mean putting up with constant bullshit -- even if it's pitiable bullshit, that's still what it is. Even if she's sick, and even if you deem it appropriate to try to help her, remember to maintain good boundaries and do what you need to to have fun and healthy times with your friends.
posted by meese at 9:33 PM on January 28 [17 favorites]

All day hikes are not trivial matters. I think the more experienced and more capable people need to take on more of a leadership role and put their foot down on her phantom concerns. As it is, they kind of escaped by breaking away from the pack so they could enjoy their day. So maybe there is a lesson there?

As for friendship matters, I would probably change the way I socialize with this person. Namely I would stick to easy activities that are well within her comfort zone.
posted by 99percentfake at 9:38 PM on January 28 [6 favorites]

If she's pleasant to hang out with while in her comfort zone, why not just socialize with her in her comfort zone?

So she hears you discussing the hike you're going to take, which you don't want her to join you on, because she sucks at hiking and ruins it for everyone. She wants to come. Just avoid the topic and make other plans that she can happily join in. "Oh, the hike, yeah I don't know about that yet. Hey are you up for Board Game night Thursday? Great!" and then never get back to the subject of the hike. If she asks again, just tell her "you were really uncomfortable last time, I could tell. I don't want to put you through that." Repeat.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:00 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]

Try Shamu training on her. Short article, but the essence is you reward behavior you like, and ignore behavior you don't. Your current approach continually reinforces her (increasingly) intolerable behavior.
posted by 6550 at 10:21 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]

I can't help but have some sympathy for Susie, since I'm also very sensitive and very, very anxious (diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder with panic attacks, social anxiety, and OCD tendencies). Heck, when I read the title of this post, I wondered for half a second if my best friend posts on the green!

That same friend has been my greatest supporter during my own anxious times. Finally, after witnessing several of my panic attacks within the span of a few weeks last year, she sat me down and talked to me about getting help. I took her advice, asked my doc, gave Celexa a try. While I still struggle a lot, the difference has been incredible. I still have emotional meltdowns, but now they happen a few times a year instead of a few times a month.

So that's where I'm coming from when I say I hope you'll talk honestly and frankly (but kindly) to this girl about her behavior instead of just ignoring her or telling her to knock it off. Anxiety-related meltdowns aren't necessarily tantrums or manipulative cries for attention. Susie may honestly be suffering, and she may need a shove to do something about it. She sounds like a chronic people pleaser and caretaker with intrusive thoughts who has a compulsion to make sure everyone's happy, and that's an exhausting combination of worries to juggle.

Then again, maybe the IS being manipulative. There's no way I could stop a meltdown and suddenly be "all smiles" just because a guy I like appeared. But different people handle anxiety in different ways, and my own experience leads me to give her the benefit of the doubt. Talk to her. If she makes no attempt to change or get help, that's a pretty good indication that she likes the attention. At that point, you might as well follow the advice in this thread about limiting your interaction with her to activities within her comfort zone.
posted by QuickedWeen at 10:29 PM on January 28 [10 favorites]

when someone is sitting there sobbing, that makes everyone pretty uncomfortable. You can just ignore that,

Just because you are the other female in the group does NOT make this your problem. Repeat: Suzie being manipulative is NOT YOUR PROBLEM JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE A WOMAN. Shrug and walk away. The other people in your group will either deal with it or stop inviting her along.

Suzie is insecure, she's projecting her insecurities on to you and trying to make you insecure, she's competing with you for male attention and she's bad tempered and abrasive when she's in a bad mood. Which is when ever the men aren't watching her. Dump this chick asap. Do not allow her to hijack your company so she can continue to hang out with a group of men.
posted by fshgrl at 10:32 PM on January 28 [11 favorites]

If you genuinely think she's over anxious and high strung, the kind thing to do would be to suggest therapy. If. If not, and you think she's a manipulative and attention seeking brat, this is what I would do:
She has repeated childish meltdowns at a gig? Give her a hug, tell her it's obviously too overwhelming for her, put her in a cab and send her home. Enjoy the gig. When she asks when the next concert is, tell her its better if she doesn't go, she can't cope and the group enjoys it more when they don't have to babysit her. Let her know that attention seeking behaviour won't be rewarded. She either won't get invited, will get put in a cab if she keeps it up or will be left to it.

Stop inviting her to things which invite meltdowns and if she has one, ignore it. You can still be her friend without inviting drama. Better still, tell her that her crush finds that kind of behaviour off putting and see how long she keeps it up for once she finds that it's keeping her out of the group activities and turning people off. It's possible to do these things in a friendly way and still not enable her crap. Best of luck, I have no patience for people like this.
posted by Jubey at 10:48 PM on January 28 [5 favorites]

This is a very good example of where boundaries can be helpful. Act in ways that are considerate and reasonable and kind, and do not take responsibility for your friend's well-being beyond that, because the rest is up to her. If she chooses not to take advantage of your offers to help, and makes you beg her to do something she wants to do, and rebuffs your kindness by bursting into tears, that is on her, and you can't be the one to fix that.

I'm trying to think of ways to deflect this kind of behavior. I am thinking that pretty much all of the "are you sure" and "your footsies must hurt" and "don't eat that licorice" don't actually merit a response. Just a shrug of the shoulders and a "meh", and then you continue to do what you were going to do anyway.
posted by PercussivePaul at 10:55 PM on January 28 [4 favorites]

I have been a Susie on occasion. It may not all be manipulative, anxiety can manifest in some strange ways.

One thing that has helped me learn to manage this behavior over time are some good friends (all men, BTW) who do not put up with this shit when I pull it. They are not mean about it. They listen briefly, sometimes validate my anxiety a little, and then shut me down. They very gently and firmly let me know that kind of behavior will not be tolerrated. I will be welcome back when I can be myself and not a free form ball of anxiety. With me it's poor coping habits and CBT type techniques have been helpful.

In any case, babysitting her is not your job.
posted by kneehigh at 11:35 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]

You need a third female injection into this group of friends.
posted by mannequito at 12:30 AM on January 29 [2 favorites]

I wouldn't be surprised, with the nitpicking of you going on and the Guess culture behaviour, that this is a bit of behaviour she's gotten from, say, her mother or other girlfriends insofar as - 'this is what women do to each other. This is how they behave. Pick, pick, pick, defer, defer, defer, martyr, martyr, martyr'. Unsurprisingly, this is not a healthy way to live and Susie does not appear to be very happy with it all - I think her anxiety and unhappiness is real, but she also has to take responsibility for managing that unhappiness and, well, not behaving like that.

None of that is really your problem and she's trying to make it yours because she hasn't dealt with it (but she might not also have strong female influences). Be independent. Be decisive. Be mindful of her insecurities and pain, but don't mother her, don't try to solve her problems. She has to be responsible for her own behaviour and she will have to learn what she can handle and what she can't and how to deal with that.
posted by heyjude at 12:58 AM on January 29 [16 favorites]

She sounds insufferable, frankly.

I have friends with genuine anxiety disorders, and they don't carry on like this. And if they did, they'd be contacting me later to quietly apologise, because they'd be so mortified. Not saying Susie doesn't have an anxiety disorder, as I'm in no position to know - my point is that a) I'm skeptical, and b) it doesn't give her a free pass to wreck everyone else's fun.

I think you'll need to take the bull by the horns and have a quiet chat with her. Lay out your frustrations like you have for us here. If she can't change her behaviour, stop inviting her. I feel harsh saying that, because it's not really my nature, but man. She sounds painful.
posted by Salamander at 1:04 AM on January 29 [8 favorites]

If somebody is as neurotic as Susie is, she is probably well aware that she over-analyzes everything and drives people nuts, and she probably worries about that. Maybe you could sit her down and talk about her freakouts, establish that you are both aware it is something she does, and make a little rule that the next time she is boiling over with worries and questions and suggestions, you have the right to let her know she's getting out of control. You don't have to say it harshly. If you can talk it through calmly, maybe she'll even feel like you're doing her a favor. I'm a terribly neurotic person myself (although hopefully not quite as neurotic as Susie) and it can be really helpful sometimes when a trusted person tells me to calm down and breathe.

She also sounds like she's not the tomboy type at all, and that sometimes makes her a problematic match for your mostly male group. If everybody wants to hike in the mountains, and she's just not a hike in the mountains girl, there's going to a real strain there. (As a kid I used to try to do hiking and other boy stuff with my cousins, and it was always a nightmare. I'm sure I acted a bit like Susie, then. Of course, I WAS 8 years old at the time.)

Maybe you can avoid ending up halfway up a mountain with Susie in the first place, so you won't have as many of these situations where she's failing to fit in and she's making everybody miserable trying. You can just tell her beforehand that the planned activity really doesn't seem like a Susie kind of thing, but find something you can all do with her later, some way to make sure she feels included. Don't try to trick her out of not going, just be realistic. "This is going to be really sweaty and tiring and maybe even kind of dangerous, and we'll have nowhere to pee. I don't think you'll have fun at all. But afterwards we're gonna get dinner, and we really want you to come."
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:57 AM on January 29 [3 favorites]

Susie sounds unwell, beyond that I'm not sure it helps to try to figure out how blameworthy she is. Maybe she was brought up being offered things with one hand, and slapped for accepting them with the other.

There's a book called "How to Deal With Emotionally Explosive People" by Al Bernstein (of Emotional Vampires fame) that kind of resolves the tension between exasperation and sympathy that this kind of behaviour elicits.
posted by tel3path at 3:36 AM on January 29 [1 favorite]

You can just ignore that, everyone needs to stop what they are doing and fix the situation. I don't want all my fun outings to turn into fixing the situation. (I also can't control who comes to these outings.)

Each time you feed the beast, the beast gets bigger and stronger. All your fun outings have turned into you fixing the situation, even when the situation doesn't need fixing. You had a great solution at the concert, going up front with your friends and letting Susie, an adult, fret by herself. All the fun was happening up front, and Susie's passive-aggressive chatter wasn't affecting anyone, and yet you made the choice to leave the fun and go back to caretaking. You're playing a much more active role in this drama-cycle than you realize.

Susie presumably is capable of getting her own needs met when nobody else is around. You're not responsible for her.
posted by headnsouth at 4:34 AM on January 29 [3 favorites]

Sorry she sounds like a bitch. I'm all for a little anxiety but she's way too manipulative for me. That's someone I would go out of my way not to engage. And the language "footsies" and "potty" - jeez I didn't even use that language with my own kids after they were 3. It sounds to me like she's jealous of you and your comfort with the guys. I've said it before, women can be hard on other women. I totally agree with 2soxy4mypuppet.
posted by lasamana at 4:42 AM on January 29 [4 favorites]

My partner has a male friend who behaves like this. Most of the people in this social group have known "Hank" since high school or college. They all know he has a problem with anxiety. He gets very anxious and indecisive and controlling all at the same time. Like Susie, he is basically a good person, and he is aware that he has a problem. I don't think he tries hard enough to minimize its impact on other people, but that's me being judgmental.

What strikes me as intractable here is that you seem to be basically riding herd on Susie all by yourself. In our group, people are protective of Hank but there is a sense that we all know what is going on. We travel quite a bit together, so we'll all be exposed to a lot of it, uninterrupted, for like a week at a time. At some point someone will say, "I don't want to get stuck doing so and so alone with Hank."Or we'll be sitting at breakfast and he'll be spinning with anxiety about something and someone will start start laughing and then everyone is laughing, including Hank. I've come to see that it's rather fine the way people accommodate Hank, without walking on eggshells around him.

I've got to say, though, I wouldn't put up with being his only handler-- or Susie's. Did she come into the group before or after you, by they way? How did this constellation happen? I think you have to find some way to take the heat off yourself. The way it sounds, a come-to-Jesus would be of limited value, certainly not lasting. I think you should do something to change the balance in the group, like bring in a new friend who will stick close to you.
posted by BibiRose at 4:52 AM on January 29 [4 favorites]

I'm astonished at some of the responses here. Yes, she does sound tiresome and frustrating and immature. But she also sounds like she has miserably low self-esteem and is genuinely suffering. And I would suspect her constant questioning and regular meltdowns are the only way she knows how to interface with the world.

She is being manipulative, but people with low self-esteem are rarely aware that they're being manipulative. People sob when they're truly upset, even if the reason seems bogus to an outsider.

She needs therapy, badly. I suspect she needs another friend group, too, especially since she has a crush on one of the guys. Unrequited feelings in a person with low self-esteem can slowly build and turn into some awful, manipulative, histrionic, passive-aggressive behaviors. I wouldn't be surprised if Susie's crush on Mike was more of a trigger than the adventurousness of her outings.

I've been a Susie. It made me miserable, and I'm sorry I did it. But I just didn't have the self-awareness or the self-esteem to figure out what I was doing and knock it off. Any sort of confrontation just confirmed that Everyone Hated Me. I can appreciate the bind you're in.

I see three things you can do, possibly simultaneously: first, hang out with them a little less. At least, stop going on the adventurous outings if Susie's tagging along. It'll give you a break, and it'll get rid of the buffer between her and the guys.

Second, approach her about the possibility that she has depression or anxiety. Do this when she's not mid-breakdown, and do it kindly. Say something that both acknowledges her unhappiness and plants the tiniest seed that it's no picnic for you either - but of course you still care. Like "I've noticed you've been crying a lot lately, and it upsets me to see you so unhappy and not be able to do something. I think it might be good for you to see someone about this."

Third, see what can be done about the Mike thing. How strong are Susie's feelings and how long have they been going on? It's not your duty to throw water on it, but does Mike actually know Susie's lusting after him? How does he feel about that: does he welcome the attention, or does he want it to stop but can't figure out how? Is Susie only hanging out with the guys because she thinks she has a chance with Mike - or any of them? I have a feeling that nothing's going to change unless/until Mike makes it crystal clear to Susie that nothing will ever happen between them, and when that happens it will be an absolute mess. You might want to keep your distance and let that happen. Or, if you suspect it will never happen, you may have to stop hanging out with Susie and the guys.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:56 AM on January 29 [12 favorites]

Yeah, I'd have lost patience for her behaviour a long time ago. I suffer from depression, I get how hard it can be with an emotional/mental illness so I do feel bad for her, but dude... enough... I think you need to decide if you actually want to continue to be close friends with her. It is okay if you want to keep being friends, but it is also okay if you want to step away...

IF you want to maintain the friendship, I would be strongly encouraging her to seek professional help. She clearly is unwell. Her constant nattering and parenting and crippling insecurity is make her life and YOUR life difficult. There is no reason why she needs to live that way, it can't be fun for her. Have a talk where you express that you like her, you value your friendship, but she isn't well and there are times where her anxiety causes you worry and makes you frustrated because you feel unable to help. You don't want to feel that way about her, she's your friend, so maybe she can let you help her find some professional help to manage her anxiety. Moving forward, whenever she has one of her breakdowns or starts getting worked up, reiterate your wish to help her get help. I would do what I could to NOT indulge her behaviour. Don't stop eating licorice. Don't leave the dance floor. Treat her like an adult, not a child under your care.

Also, when she starts getting anxious and starts pestering you about something (like the licorice eating), you need to firmly state that you aren't open to discussing this. Saying something like "Look, it is clear that my eating licorice is causing you a lot of anxiety, and I am sorry for that, but seriously... I'm an adult. I've decided to eat licorice. I'm not a five year old deciding to eat shards of glass. Please give it a rest." If she keeps at you about it I would walk away.

The hard thing is that you're in a dynamic where you've become used to is one where feel responsible for her emotional state. It has gone on long enough that you probably feel it is cruel for you to start creating totally reasonable boundaries since it is going to probably upset her. I think it has to happen, though. Her emotional state is NOT your responsibility. I suffer from depression, I can empathize wtih your friend, but it just cannot be your responsibility any more. If she has herself all worked up and is sobbing, encourage her to go home since the situation is clearly overwhelming her, and let her know you'll call her in the morning to check in on her. If she seems unable to stop obessing and pestering you about your choices, tell her that you see you are clearly stressing her out so you're going to step away so that she doesn't have to see it/worry about it and so that she can calm down. Rather than having her disfunctional behaviour be an attention getter, have it be an attention denier.

Remember that what you've been doing hasn't helped her. Right now the most caring and friendly thing you can do is urge her to get help and to start establishing boundaries for yourself.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 5:00 AM on January 29 [10 favorites]

Two questions:

1) Have you talked to Susie directly about this issue at a time when she's relatively calm? That is, when she's in a situation she's totally comfortable in, have you ever had a conversation with her about how she feels when she's out of her comfort zone and how those feelings affect her interpersonal dynamics? If so, what was that conversation like?

2) Have you talked about Susie's issues with your other friends? Not in a gossipy, "gosh, I'm annoyed with Susie's whining" kind of way (though I would totally understand if that had happened, because it all sounds pretty grating). But I'd be interested to know whether others in your group have some insight into Susie's situation and have other suggestions about how to handle it.

I do agree with those above who have suggested that there's a gendered response going on here. Not that your male friends are doing anything wrong necessarily, but it does sound as though because you're female, either you or they have come to expect that you'll deal with this girly problem. It won't fix the problem, but it might make it emotionally easier for you to keep reminding yourself that you are not Susie's mother, and you do not automatically have responsibility for helping her just because no one else in the group is stepping up. Yes, it's hard to watch someone cry. But why is it that when she cries, you're the one who ends up comforting her and making suggestions for how to make things better?

Ultimately, this problem is much, much bigger than you. Whether Susie has an underlying anxiety condition or whether she's simply been socialized to believe that this is how she should act in order to maintain her place in the group, it's unlikely that you can fix it on your own. If you think she'd be receptive to the idea, suggest that she talk to a therapist. But no matter what you choose to do, remember the Al-Anon mantra: "You didn't cause it. You can't cure it. You can't control it." All you can do is live your own life in the best way you know how, be kind and loving to those you love, and encourage people who need help to seek it out.
posted by decathecting at 5:55 AM on January 29 [3 favorites]

Here's what I would do: next time the group plans an adventure that you think will be too much for Susie, talk to her about how you think it's going to be too much for her. You could say things like, "Last time, I know you got really upset at that concert. Are you sure you want to go this time? Let's at least plan some kind of escape route for you if you get upset again." And insist that she come up with some kind of Way Out.

Probably that won't work (although if it does, hey, problem solved!) and she'll still go to the event and freak out. So then, the *next* time there's a "too much for Susie" plan, say to her, "Look, Susie, last time we talked about how these events seem like they're too much for you. If you come to this event, I'm not going to be able to take responsibility for you - I hate to see you sobbing in the lobby of the venue but ultimately you need to either learn to deal* or stop going to these events. If you want to hang out, why don't we do [nonthreatening activity] or [other nonthreatening activity]."

And probably that won't work either, but at least you'll have drawn your boundary and made it clear that you do want to spend time with her but you just can't deal with the scenes and drama, and you can feel less guilty (or maybe even not guilty at all!) when you don't go looking for her because you suspect she's melting down. Also to my mind this method is equally appropriate whether she has a genuine anxiety disorder or she's a drama queen.



* Maybe suggest therapy here
posted by mskyle at 7:55 AM on January 29 [1 favorite]

I'm a ball of anxiety, myself. I've had panic attacks and freak-outs that ruined everyone's time. To that extent, I sympathize with your friend. But I draw the line at the histrionic, manipulative way she is taking advantage of you. That absolutely does not come part-and-parcel with anxiety disorders. You can still be considerate and adult, even when you're ridden with overwhelming nervousness, even when you're breaking down with fear. Being a nervous wreck and a considerate person is manageable. (What up with this woman creating a vague, interminable list of "comfort zones" that can be violated at any time, and will result in her having a sobbing fit? That's just ridiculous, sorry. I say this as someone who has, at times, been severely crippled by anxiety disorders, and who has never been free of symptoms.) The fact that she is probably mentally ill, is not a get-out-of-jail-free card to treat other people however she wants.

I have a few long-term friends like this, and one family member. They all have nervousness issues, yes -- but they all have far more severe psychiatric problems, too (personality disorders, ahoy). And I've stopped catering to them at all. I sympathize the best I can, but they don't get to control my life anymore. I'm sorry they're in pain, and I care about them. But I can't remember the last time that any of them acted like adults in their relationships. Nor can I remember the last time they took any of my emotional needs into consideration. They all suddenly appear with gifts and monetary favors when they realize they're losing their white-knuckled grip on their targeted friends, but they never will give their friends true emotional support, themselves.

And every little thing is a crisis. Someone always has to make sure their lives are comfortable, and someone always has to do it now. Someone has to be there for their yawning chasms of emotional need, 24/7/365. Your friend wants you to be that someone, or one of her someones. You can say, "nope, I'm going to expect you to act like an adult, and we're going to go on with life". Or you can become her emotional crutch until she's used you up, and finds someone else's life to take over.
posted by Coatlicue at 8:06 AM on January 29 [13 favorites]

She sounds really annoying, but as someone with major anxiety, I think the best thing you can do is to try to help her help herself. Convince her to get therapy.
posted by radioamy at 9:08 AM on January 29

No matter the cause of your friend's troubles, she needs to be responsible for them, and you may be able to behave compassionately and still address the issues. Read the Shamu article. Treat her as you would treat any friend.
- When you make plans, and when you start an event, state your intentions. I'm going to be setting a medium pace. I'm going to go up front to dance. If/ When she displays distress, name it and offer whatever help you think is reasonable Susie, you seem distressed. You have my mobile number. Text me And when she says, as she does, I'll be fine, accept that as a true statement, and move on.
- When she needs to stop for the bathroom, or whatever, answer any reasonable question with a sincere answer, once. Repeated questioning does and should generate impatience. Are you suuuure you don't need to go to the bathroom 1st/ my sandwich/ blahblah? can get Susie, asked, answered, and waiting on you. with a cheerful smile and then C'mon, let's get moving.
- Repeated worrying about the ordinary behavior of others OMG, what if Guy got hurt/ lost/ hit by lightning? can get one reasonable response Guy is a strong hiker, on a marked trail, and he has a mobile/ whistle/ superpowers. I'm confident he'll be fine; is there any action you want to take to assure his safety? Continued obsessional behavior should be named and not listened/ responded to Yeah, you've been mentioning your worries about Guy a lot. Dealing with your worry issues would probably help you be happier, but right now there's no action we need to take and then Susie, I'm done discussing this; it's not enhancing my enjoyment of the hike. It's not easy to ignore whining (which is what it is) but it is the best way to extinguish it. The enabling of her annoying behaviors by her family, friends, your group, may have allowed them to get worse.
- Insistence that you may not eat what you want should be named Susie, I like licorice and I'm happy with my food choices and then That's enough discussion of my trail snacks followed by ignoring her. You can practice for this by having someone drag chalk on a blackboard, making it squeak.

I would literally put distance between you and Susie, by busying yourself with minor tasks, and I would let her behavior lead to its natural and logical consequences of ruined outings. If she's too anxious for the outings, she should find other ways to have fun with the group. The most effective way for her to learn is to deal with the results.

It would be kind to say to her, Susie, you seem anxious a lot of the time; have you ever though about getting some help for that? I think you would be having more fun if you were less worried. I have the name of a therapist who helped my co-worker a lot. Co-worker is so glad he got treatment. Co-worker can be fictional, but therapist, along with contact info, should be very real. You may then say, from time to time, It sounds like you're feeling anxious; I think you'd be happier getting some help.

It's possible that changing the dynamic will fracture the group. Be as cheerful and kind to her, without enabling the obsessional/ obnoxious behavior, as you can. And make it clear that you expect the guys to be responsive to her, and not just you.
posted by theora55 at 10:06 AM on January 29 [5 favorites]

Yeah that Shamu article is written in a tone that infantilizes/patronizes her husband but the basic idea is 'yelling at people solves nothing' which is totally true and definitely in this situation.
posted by capricorn at 10:29 AM on January 29

The bottom line is that you have to stop worrying about Susie, who is an adult, after all, and start looking out for yourself and your own inner peace. It's great that you care about her enough to put up with this behaviour, and that you can see that, even if she is manipulative and annoying, she is still hurting. But letting yourself be driven crazy will only result in more stress for you and, very possibly, an explosion that hurts both of you and damages your friendship.

I'd recommend stopping the mind-reading and taking her comments at face value. If she says it's fine, then it's fine. If she asks a question numerous times, say that you've already answered that. If she fixates on your food, ask her why she's so concerned about what you're eating. If she asks "what will happen if so and so does XYZ," or "does so and so hate me," say "I dunno, ask so-and-so." If she whines and talks about how she has all these problems that make her so annoying, say "you do seem pretty anxious, and it does seem to be affecting your life, so maybe you should talk to a professional about it." (When those "problems" come up again--and they will--repeat "yes, we talked about that a while ago, have you done anything about it?")

Bottom line: you are responsible for your own life, and she is responsible for hers. You will be a lot happier once you stop being her buffer against the world, and, in the long run, so will she. She needs to experience the effects and consequences of her behaviour before she changes. In the meantime, you still get to have fun.
posted by rpfields at 10:35 AM on January 29 [2 favorites]

As others have stressed, stop coddling her. If she starts crying, ignore it. When she starts whining, ignore it. When she starts commenting about what you're eating, firmly tell her "We are not discussing my eating habits." Repeat as necessary.

For what it's worth, I envy your patience. I suffer from anxiety and I would've left her in the woods.
posted by futureisunwritten at 10:42 AM on January 29

Another question to think about: does she so the 'are you sure' and pick at your food/clothing/etc during times when you guys are hanging out casually and she is ok in her comfort zone? Or only when she's flaking out? I think the answer to this question might inform your decision of how to proceed using all the advice above.
posted by CathyG at 11:14 AM on January 29 [1 favorite]

THANK YOU SO MUCH! This is saving my sanity and you gave me so much good advice. The first thing I have started trying to change is I am trying to avoid being Susie's buffer from the other friends. So here's a little episode that happened. We had an overnight trip planned and I knew there would be anxiety about the sleeping arrangements. So when we got there I just picked a sleeping spot and went to sleep right away. Leaving Susie and 4 guys to figure it out. The next morning one of the guys said to me, "You would not believe the conversation we had to have about the sleeping arrangements. It was one of the longest and most ridiculous conversations I have ever had." Later I heard about it from Susie too and she said she was annoyed at that guy for "just taking" the spot she wanted rather than insisting she take it, instead of "being a gentleman." He did not realize that no matter how many times she kept offering it to him he was supposed to keep saying no. So yeah, I think it was really good to just step out of the way of that whole thing when I saw it coming.
posted by Sock of Silliness at 7:28 PM on February 4 [11 favorites]