How am I supposed to feel about property lines?
January 28, 2013 8:57 AM Subscribe
My wife and I bought our first house about a month ago, and for the first time in our adult lives, we have our own little back yard (typical Chicago-size, maybe 900 sqft). We don't have kids. There's a fence between our yard and one neighbor, but no fence between our backyard and the backyard of the other neighbor. They have several kids between ages 6 and 11. I've looked out the window and seen them running between our yards on a few occasions, and I've found their toys in my yard a few times. (I've just tossed them back when I have.) This isn't really a big deal in and of itself, but I get the distinct feeling that I'm going to be seeing a lot more of these kids and their toys once the weather warms up. What should I do?
Obviously, there's no malicious intent here - their yard is a little smaller than ours, so I can't blame the kids for wanting to stretch their legs a bit. For all I know, the previous owners may even have encouraged the kids to use their/our yard. Having said that, my wife and I have waited a long time to have our own space and don't want to always be picking up after the neighbor kids. We've met the parents (briefly) - they seem nice, and I'd like to get to know them better before asking them to get their kids off my lawn (which would definitely peg me as a crank and probably wouldn't make much difference).
So, hive mind, what would you do? Be happy that this is my biggest problem and get over it? Wait until I find them bouncing basketballs off my garage and yell at them? Their house is *right* on the property line, so a fence is kind of a nuclear option (plus $$$). My current favorite plan at the moment is to start a narrow garden near the property line come spring, which is slightly passive-agressive, but seems somewhat preferable to an out-of-the-blue request to corral your kids.
Obviously, there's no malicious intent here - their yard is a little smaller than ours, so I can't blame the kids for wanting to stretch their legs a bit. For all I know, the previous owners may even have encouraged the kids to use their/our yard. Having said that, my wife and I have waited a long time to have our own space and don't want to always be picking up after the neighbor kids. We've met the parents (briefly) - they seem nice, and I'd like to get to know them better before asking them to get their kids off my lawn (which would definitely peg me as a crank and probably wouldn't make much difference).
So, hive mind, what would you do? Be happy that this is my biggest problem and get over it? Wait until I find them bouncing basketballs off my garage and yell at them? Their house is *right* on the property line, so a fence is kind of a nuclear option (plus $$$). My current favorite plan at the moment is to start a narrow garden near the property line come spring, which is slightly passive-agressive, but seems somewhat preferable to an out-of-the-blue request to corral your kids.
It is better to fence your yard and enjoy your very expensive investment than to grow to resent your neighbors and their kids. Even if they didn't have kids or used their yard much a privacy fence make that 900sf your own place to char meat, get sunburned, and think of clever new ways to curse the weeds in your garden.
Just talk to them first.
posted by munchingzombie at 9:03 AM on January 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
Just talk to them first.
posted by munchingzombie at 9:03 AM on January 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
You need a fence.
Why is this a nuclear option? Seems normal to me.
I'm sure the children would end up accidentally trampling some of you plantings, if you went that route.
You sound weird about this. A fence is normal. Scheming passive aggressive ways (which won't work anyway) to get a point across is too much drama.
Fences are normal.
posted by jbenben at 9:04 AM on January 28, 2013 [11 favorites]
Why is this a nuclear option? Seems normal to me.
I'm sure the children would end up accidentally trampling some of you plantings, if you went that route.
You sound weird about this. A fence is normal. Scheming passive aggressive ways (which won't work anyway) to get a point across is too much drama.
Fences are normal.
posted by jbenben at 9:04 AM on January 28, 2013 [11 favorites]
If you take the garden route, you might want to put a short (knee-height or lower) fence in front of it on the neighbors' side. This creates a symbolic separation of space, and protects your plants from a soccer/kickball gone astray - which can do surprising amounts of damage to smaller plants.
posted by BrandonW at 9:04 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by BrandonW at 9:04 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
There really is a reason why the saying "Good fences make good neighbors" exists.
I'd rather go "nuclear" here than the passive aggressive route, because what will eventually happen is the kids will accidentally trample your garden efforts and things will escalate from mere annoyance to outright anger.
Besides new owners putting up a fence is a totally normal thing. I would want one - ideally a privacy fence.
posted by FlamingBore at 9:04 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'd rather go "nuclear" here than the passive aggressive route, because what will eventually happen is the kids will accidentally trample your garden efforts and things will escalate from mere annoyance to outright anger.
Besides new owners putting up a fence is a totally normal thing. I would want one - ideally a privacy fence.
posted by FlamingBore at 9:04 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
Personally, in the absence of a big garden or expensive plantings--I'd let the kids run. I think as long as they're not making a huge mess and/or racket, it's neighborly. Tell them they have to pick up their own toys before they go inside. Do you work at home in the day? Can you put the garden in another spot, maybe an elevated bed or a little fence around it?
Or else plant roses as a dividing line--scratchy ones.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:05 AM on January 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
Or else plant roses as a dividing line--scratchy ones.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:05 AM on January 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
You're really going to have to talk to the parents about what is and is not acceptable use of your yard. It sounds like they essentially don't have a yard so it isn't even a matter of them staying on their side. Planting a garden seems like a sure fire way to have a trampled garden. If you really don't wan the kids in your yard basically ever you really need to just build a fence.
posted by whoaali at 9:05 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by whoaali at 9:05 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Congrats on the new house!
The main issue here seems to be the toys, which is not really cool. When I was a kid, we had maybe 4 connected backyards to hang out it - one of which belonged to two much older people, and had a spacious lawn (no garden) perfect for all kinds of activities. But whether we were playing ball, chasing dogs, or practicing gymnastics, I don't recall ever leaving our toys there. And if anyone happened to be using the yard, we wouldn't just run in and play in it.
I guess if I were you I'd wait until you happened to see the neighbor parents, and just state your point of view as above - it's cool if they run around sometimes. But you're excited to have your own yard for the first time, so you'd love it if they could just pick up their toys. You hope some time they'll come over for dinner. The end.
posted by Isingthebodyelectric at 9:06 AM on January 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
The main issue here seems to be the toys, which is not really cool. When I was a kid, we had maybe 4 connected backyards to hang out it - one of which belonged to two much older people, and had a spacious lawn (no garden) perfect for all kinds of activities. But whether we were playing ball, chasing dogs, or practicing gymnastics, I don't recall ever leaving our toys there. And if anyone happened to be using the yard, we wouldn't just run in and play in it.
I guess if I were you I'd wait until you happened to see the neighbor parents, and just state your point of view as above - it's cool if they run around sometimes. But you're excited to have your own yard for the first time, so you'd love it if they could just pick up their toys. You hope some time they'll come over for dinner. The end.
posted by Isingthebodyelectric at 9:06 AM on January 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
Yes, landscape a visual boundary. And then say nothing.
Bushes, a garden, anything that delineates the space.
posted by vitabellosi at 9:06 AM on January 28, 2013
Bushes, a garden, anything that delineates the space.
posted by vitabellosi at 9:06 AM on January 28, 2013
I am glad you realize there's no malicious intent here -- I promise you those kids don't even have a concept that your part of it is a separate space from theirs, they're all just "whoo yard!" However, it IS a separate space, and you have the right to quiet enjoyment of it. I think the "start the garden and talk to the parents if that isn't enough" idea is a good one, plus maybe a low picket-type fence.
On preview -- if you really want your own private space, though, you need a fence, and it's not a nuclear option at all, it's a perfectly normal thing to do. So if that's what you want, then do it, and don't expect anything else to do the trick.
posted by KathrynT at 9:07 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
On preview -- if you really want your own private space, though, you need a fence, and it's not a nuclear option at all, it's a perfectly normal thing to do. So if that's what you want, then do it, and don't expect anything else to do the trick.
posted by KathrynT at 9:07 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you're nixing the fence idea (but really, I'd build the fence), I'd go with the garden/landscaping, but I would have a chat with the neighbours about it beforehand. Something like "Hi Neighbour! Just so you know, we're going to be doing some landscaping soon. For now it isn't a big deal having your kids and your kids' toys in our back yard, but I'd prefer if they didn't use our yard when our plants are in. Thanks!"
Then plant a long flower bed along the line and grow some tall plants/shrubs behind it. A low fence isn't a bad idea either. Make it be a clear divider and not something the kids can easily jump over.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 9:09 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Then plant a long flower bed along the line and grow some tall plants/shrubs behind it. A low fence isn't a bad idea either. Make it be a clear divider and not something the kids can easily jump over.
posted by PuppetMcSockerson at 9:09 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
In the house I grew up in, we had weird property lines and played halfway in neighbors yards all the time. My parents dislike fencing. But I always had to pick up outside toys when I was done. So for now, have a conversation with the parents and ask that the kids pick up their toys.
I really like the suggestion of starting a garden in the spring and installing a low fence to go with it.
posted by DoubleLune at 9:10 AM on January 28, 2013
I really like the suggestion of starting a garden in the spring and installing a low fence to go with it.
posted by DoubleLune at 9:10 AM on January 28, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks for all the answers so far! I realize I should explain my "nuclear option" comment a bit more - because of their proximity to the property line, some of their landscaping (including a small tree) extends over the line. I'm fine with it as it is now, but if we were going to spring for a fence, we'd have to ask them to move it, which would certainly annoy me, even if a legitimate request.
posted by ndg at 9:12 AM on January 28, 2013
posted by ndg at 9:12 AM on January 28, 2013
If I were good at talking to people about what bothers me (which I'm not), I'd say it to the parents just as you've said it here.
A vaguely similar situation happened to me. We used to have a Jack Russell that liked to bark when anyone walked within a ten mile radius of the house. New neighbors moved in and within a very short time installed those long plastic slats in the chain link fence for privacy. I totally understood their move and felt bad that our dog was the cause.
Seems to me that if you think you are going to need a fence, it should be done pretty early on. It will look more like settling into your new home and less like "ugh, those damned, noisy kids".
posted by Beti at 9:18 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
A vaguely similar situation happened to me. We used to have a Jack Russell that liked to bark when anyone walked within a ten mile radius of the house. New neighbors moved in and within a very short time installed those long plastic slats in the chain link fence for privacy. I totally understood their move and felt bad that our dog was the cause.
Seems to me that if you think you are going to need a fence, it should be done pretty early on. It will look more like settling into your new home and less like "ugh, those damned, noisy kids".
posted by Beti at 9:18 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think you're being too polite. It's not a jerky move to build a fence, even if it requires them making some landscaping adjustments. Get a fence.
posted by something something at 9:19 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by something something at 9:19 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Is your only concern about the kids whether they leave their toys in your yard, or something else? Are you concerned they'll damage your grass, or be in the way when you want to do something in your backyard, or get hurt and then their parents will sue you? I don't fully understand the nature of the problem.
posted by Dansaman at 9:22 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Dansaman at 9:22 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Wait, their landscaping intrudes onto your property, and you doing anything that would ask them to move it as too confrontational?
Dude, if that tree is on your property, it is *your* tree.
There are very, very good reasons to be very, very clear about property lines.
posted by ambrosia at 9:23 AM on January 28, 2013 [43 favorites]
Dude, if that tree is on your property, it is *your* tree.
There are very, very good reasons to be very, very clear about property lines.
posted by ambrosia at 9:23 AM on January 28, 2013 [43 favorites]
You don't have to build the fence on the property line. You can build the fence to leave their landscaping in place and send them periodic reminders that letting the landscaping extend into your yard is by permission and does not give up your rights. (This is not legal advice.)
If you want to be extra neighborly, you could even put in a gate and give them permission to enter your yard to retrieve anything that does make it over the fence.
posted by Bruce H. at 9:26 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you want to be extra neighborly, you could even put in a gate and give them permission to enter your yard to retrieve anything that does make it over the fence.
posted by Bruce H. at 9:26 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
A fence is a perfectly normal thing to have to mark the edges of your space and is the best way of keeping people out of your yard. Doesn't have to be a wooden fence, it could be a hedge but that takes up more space and more time to maintain than a fence.
If you don't mind them using your yard but don't want them leaving their toys there then tell their parents that. If they still leave toys on your side then don't throw them back, take them inside your house where the kids can't get them. If they have to ask you for their toys every time they leave them out, they'll likely be more careful where they leave them in future.
Your garden idea sounds like it will end in trampled plants. These people clearly do no respect boundaries. Their kids not only play in your yard, they leave toys lying around like they own the place and they have had landscaping done that already encroaches on your space.
How far on to your land does their landscaping go? Are we talking a couple of inches or more? If you don't want to piss off the neighbours then you could put the fence up as close to the property line as their landscaping would allow and sacrifice that portion of your land for the sake of avoiding conflict. I guess you have to decide what matters more to you, preserving the property line (and value of your land) or your relationship with the neighbours. (FWIW if they get upset about having to move their landscaping so you can put in a fence, they're the jerks, not you)
posted by missmagenta at 9:27 AM on January 28, 2013
If you don't mind them using your yard but don't want them leaving their toys there then tell their parents that. If they still leave toys on your side then don't throw them back, take them inside your house where the kids can't get them. If they have to ask you for their toys every time they leave them out, they'll likely be more careful where they leave them in future.
Your garden idea sounds like it will end in trampled plants. These people clearly do no respect boundaries. Their kids not only play in your yard, they leave toys lying around like they own the place and they have had landscaping done that already encroaches on your space.
How far on to your land does their landscaping go? Are we talking a couple of inches or more? If you don't want to piss off the neighbours then you could put the fence up as close to the property line as their landscaping would allow and sacrifice that portion of your land for the sake of avoiding conflict. I guess you have to decide what matters more to you, preserving the property line (and value of your land) or your relationship with the neighbours. (FWIW if they get upset about having to move their landscaping so you can put in a fence, they're the jerks, not you)
posted by missmagenta at 9:27 AM on January 28, 2013
I think putting in a garden or a low picket fence would make for awesome jumping-over and can't-catch-me opportunities for the kids.
Are the kids in and out of your yard all day long? Is it really driving you crazy? I say this as privacy loving, 6' fence-having, stay-off-my-lawn type... What if they were your kids? What if you end up with kids? Do you want them to have the same space to run around? You're still new here, maybe give it one spring and summer and see how bad it really is? I have really great neighbors but I would be bothered to the limit if I had to make small talk with them or their kids everytime I went in my yard. If that's you, suck it up and get a fence. But if not or if you're not sure, you can wait a few months and then decide.
posted by vignettist at 9:31 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Are the kids in and out of your yard all day long? Is it really driving you crazy? I say this as privacy loving, 6' fence-having, stay-off-my-lawn type... What if they were your kids? What if you end up with kids? Do you want them to have the same space to run around? You're still new here, maybe give it one spring and summer and see how bad it really is? I have really great neighbors but I would be bothered to the limit if I had to make small talk with them or their kids everytime I went in my yard. If that's you, suck it up and get a fence. But if not or if you're not sure, you can wait a few months and then decide.
posted by vignettist at 9:31 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would wait just a bit and see what happens as the weather warms up and the kids are really using the lawn. You are certainly entitled to fence/garden/do whatever you want to your property the way you want to. BUT....if you want to hold off on that option you might want to wait until the kids are outside more and you get a better idea of what the actual problems are going to be. Having only been there a month (in the winter) you don't really know what the dimensions of the problem are. Is it toys? Is it noise? Are they riding bikes over your grass? Basketballs?
You want to be able to communicate specifically "X and Y are problems" to the parents and not just "Arg! Your kids!" which you might run the danger of doing having only been there a month.
posted by pantarei70 at 9:32 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
You want to be able to communicate specifically "X and Y are problems" to the parents and not just "Arg! Your kids!" which you might run the danger of doing having only been there a month.
posted by pantarei70 at 9:32 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
A slip and fall on your property would open up the possibility of a lawsuit that your home owner's insurance carrier would provide you with counsel to defend. Or at least it would in NY. I assume Chicago would work similarly. Whether or not they'd win is another story. Your carrier might opt to simply settle to save money.
posted by Brian Puccio at 9:33 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Brian Puccio at 9:33 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
Contrarian view here: Since there's no malicious intent from the kids, and you don't think it's a big deal to toss a toy back into their yard, and you don't really know if they will be annoying come summer, don't build the fence yet. It sounds like a solution in search of a problem. You might even be one of those cool couples who get along with the neighborhood kids. A little landscaping can be a fine way to mark the property line. You can escalate it with some hedges later if the need arises.
posted by Longtime Listener at 9:34 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Longtime Listener at 9:34 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
Do you know that the neighbors put in the landscaping? Maybe it was there when they bought the house.
You definitely should act sooner rather than later. If there are already toys in the yard now, when it's freezing and kids are in school during the day, it's going to be really out of control come summer. You and your wife have the right to be able to enjoy your yard without kids running in and out of it. The sooner you address the problem, the more it looks like you just want to settle in as the new owners and you aren't reacting specifically to their kids.
I would put in a privacy fence. Depending on the shape and location of the tree, it may be possible to cut holes/notches in the fence to accommodate it, if you wanted to be super nice.
posted by payoto at 9:34 AM on January 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
You definitely should act sooner rather than later. If there are already toys in the yard now, when it's freezing and kids are in school during the day, it's going to be really out of control come summer. You and your wife have the right to be able to enjoy your yard without kids running in and out of it. The sooner you address the problem, the more it looks like you just want to settle in as the new owners and you aren't reacting specifically to their kids.
I would put in a privacy fence. Depending on the shape and location of the tree, it may be possible to cut holes/notches in the fence to accommodate it, if you wanted to be super nice.
posted by payoto at 9:34 AM on January 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
Hey, you didn't build their house right on the property line. The fact that their house is overbuilt to their lot doesn't entitle them to your yard.
Kids are kids. While they won't intend to do it, they're going to tear up your plant border. They're young enough that balls and games are going to hit the plants. No malice intended, but kids at that age just aren't going to get it. And they certainly aren't going to understand that those plants cost money, work and your precious weekend time.
Fence and be done with it.
posted by 26.2 at 9:41 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
Kids are kids. While they won't intend to do it, they're going to tear up your plant border. They're young enough that balls and games are going to hit the plants. No malice intended, but kids at that age just aren't going to get it. And they certainly aren't going to understand that those plants cost money, work and your precious weekend time.
Fence and be done with it.
posted by 26.2 at 9:41 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
You're new neighbors, you can build whatever you want and it would be weird to be offended. At most, a reasonable person would think "bummer that Johnny and Janie don't have the run of the place anymore, but oh well, it's their yard."
And as others have said, if there's a tree in your yard, it's your tree. It would be exceedingly neighborly of you to say "hey neighbor, we were going to take down this tree to make room for our garden fence, but maybe you'd like it for someplace else in your yard?" And then in July offer them some of those Early Girls from the new garden you planted in your new yard.
posted by headnsouth at 9:41 AM on January 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
And as others have said, if there's a tree in your yard, it's your tree. It would be exceedingly neighborly of you to say "hey neighbor, we were going to take down this tree to make room for our garden fence, but maybe you'd like it for someplace else in your yard?" And then in July offer them some of those Early Girls from the new garden you planted in your new yard.
posted by headnsouth at 9:41 AM on January 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
I am lucky and have a large double block. I tried the neighbourly approach until I came home one day and found the kids building a tree house in a big old tree 10 feet from my back door. The 6 foot privacy fence went up the next day. I now have to occasionally throw a ball back over to them, and for a while the kids threw wrappers over the fence but my passive agressively throwing the wrappers back over for a few months stopped that. The main problem now is the odd pipe (be it crack or dope I don't know) thrown over from the alley behind us. As fall football games now involve the kids running up and down my front yard and trampling my garden, spring will see the installation of a front fence and Fort wwax will be complete.
In other words it's your garden, if you want a fence it's not the "nuclear" option it's simply fencing in your garden.
For clarity, I moved to the US from Australia and pretty much every one there fences in their front and back gardens, you'd be considered weird if you didn't. It's only since moving to the US that I've realised the idea of letting everyone walk across your property and everyone being able to see every thing you do when outside all the time is an actual thing.
Build that fence build it high and build it strong.
posted by wwax at 9:41 AM on January 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
In other words it's your garden, if you want a fence it's not the "nuclear" option it's simply fencing in your garden.
For clarity, I moved to the US from Australia and pretty much every one there fences in their front and back gardens, you'd be considered weird if you didn't. It's only since moving to the US that I've realised the idea of letting everyone walk across your property and everyone being able to see every thing you do when outside all the time is an actual thing.
Build that fence build it high and build it strong.
posted by wwax at 9:41 AM on January 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
If you build a fence, check your setback requirements. Often, fences need to be X number of feet form the actual property line, and will require that you have a survey done (at cost) to determine that line before building. You may also need to pull a permit.
posted by ellF at 9:45 AM on January 28, 2013
posted by ellF at 9:45 AM on January 28, 2013
I just had to move because of horrid neighbors (24 hour partying, drug dealing, etc) Fence. Now. (even a low one) Do not ask about it. Do not inform them. Be as nice as ever, but what you do with your yard is you business, now and forever. They might be huffy for a while, but they don't have a leg to stand on, and will soon get over it. Children have NO sense of boundaries...as far as they are concerned it IS their yard, and their parents really dont care about you...they're just glad the kids are out of the house.
posted by sexyrobot at 9:45 AM on January 28, 2013
posted by sexyrobot at 9:45 AM on January 28, 2013
I'm gonna have to side with the build a fence crowd here. I'm facing the same decision myself only it's not kids, it's privacy. My neighbors can see into my house and everyone around here has low fences. Well, they may be happy with this arrangement, but I'm not. I'm putting in a huge privacy fence as soon as I can, and I could care less if anyone else in the neighborhood has one. It's my property and I can do what I want with it, so long as I'm not breaking any laws.
posted by patheral at 9:46 AM on January 28, 2013
posted by patheral at 9:46 AM on January 28, 2013
Best answer: Whoah--DO NOT BUILD THE FENCE ANYWHERE OTHER THAN ON THE PROPERTY LINE without discussing the ramifications with an attorney familiar with Illinois property law. If I were your Illinois property law attorney (which I am not because I no longer practice property law in Illinois), I would tell you that building the fence anywhere other than on the property line is a very bad idea indeed.
As a neighbor in Chicago, I would not think it odd at all that new owners wanted to put up a fence and that my landscaping might be affected. I might be annoyed, but if the new owners were polite, maybe apologetic, but firm about wanting a fence on their property line, I'd get over it.
posted by crush-onastick at 9:48 AM on January 28, 2013 [24 favorites]
As a neighbor in Chicago, I would not think it odd at all that new owners wanted to put up a fence and that my landscaping might be affected. I might be annoyed, but if the new owners were polite, maybe apologetic, but firm about wanting a fence on their property line, I'd get over it.
posted by crush-onastick at 9:48 AM on January 28, 2013 [24 favorites]
also, the longer you wait to 'test the waters' the more hostile and passive-aggressive it will seem when you do (and you will) put one in. now now now.
posted by sexyrobot at 9:51 AM on January 28, 2013
posted by sexyrobot at 9:51 AM on January 28, 2013
Best answer: We have the same setup -- intermingled gardening, kids next door who are used to using both lawns because the old lady we bought it from let them play there. So here's what we did:
Step 1 -- Decide what we wanted our yard to be. A space for us and only us to enjoy? A space that we don't mind the neighbor kids enjoying, but that we don't want to clean their toys out of? A space that we can enjoy privately?
We decided that we wanted our yard to be a space that we didn't mind the neighbor kids enjoying, but that we didn't want to clean their toys out of, and we wanted them to ask before they used it (if we were home).
Step 2 -- Bake some cookies and take them to the neighbors. Tell the neighbors what we wanted our yard to be. Ask whether they think they could help with that.
Step 3 -- Done. They agreed, and the kids have done what we asked except for once or twice a year, and they're kids, so that ain't bad.
95 percent of the time, that's all you need to do. And in that other 5 percent of the time, now you know, thank goodness, what sort of neighbors you have.
posted by Etrigan at 9:53 AM on January 28, 2013 [12 favorites]
Step 1 -- Decide what we wanted our yard to be. A space for us and only us to enjoy? A space that we don't mind the neighbor kids enjoying, but that we don't want to clean their toys out of? A space that we can enjoy privately?
We decided that we wanted our yard to be a space that we didn't mind the neighbor kids enjoying, but that we didn't want to clean their toys out of, and we wanted them to ask before they used it (if we were home).
Step 2 -- Bake some cookies and take them to the neighbors. Tell the neighbors what we wanted our yard to be. Ask whether they think they could help with that.
Step 3 -- Done. They agreed, and the kids have done what we asked except for once or twice a year, and they're kids, so that ain't bad.
95 percent of the time, that's all you need to do. And in that other 5 percent of the time, now you know, thank goodness, what sort of neighbors you have.
posted by Etrigan at 9:53 AM on January 28, 2013 [12 favorites]
There is nothing nuclear or unreasonable about you decide to maintain the property you own. You are allowed to choose who can be on the property both when you are home and when you are not. A fence is a perfectly normal thing to have.
posted by elizardbits at 9:55 AM on January 28, 2013
posted by elizardbits at 9:55 AM on January 28, 2013
crush-onastick is absolutely correct. There are laws, which obvs vary by state, that define just how a landowner 'abandons' land. Fencing some of your land out, or letting neighbors plant/maintain/use your land can - in some jurisdictions - be considered abandonment. It would give abutters using the land cause to try to claim it.
Listen, I am a parent of a toddler. I am also neighbor of children. While I'd love to be all "Oh the cherubs are running through the yard, how lovely the sound of pitter pattering feet!" in reality, in the summer the god damn neighbor kids are obnoxious and loud and screamy. I get it, I was once obnoxious and loud and screamy too. They don't heed any shooing or pleasant requests to not run in our yard, etc.
I also, as children are likely to do, did not give a crap about adult serenity or respecting anyone else's privacy, land or property. I was constantly picking all of the flowers from the garden of the old lady next door.
I vote for fence. You don't owe anyone or anyone's kids the right to frolic on your land. And god help you if someone gets hurt on your land while frolicking.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:04 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Listen, I am a parent of a toddler. I am also neighbor of children. While I'd love to be all "Oh the cherubs are running through the yard, how lovely the sound of pitter pattering feet!" in reality, in the summer the god damn neighbor kids are obnoxious and loud and screamy. I get it, I was once obnoxious and loud and screamy too. They don't heed any shooing or pleasant requests to not run in our yard, etc.
I also, as children are likely to do, did not give a crap about adult serenity or respecting anyone else's privacy, land or property. I was constantly picking all of the flowers from the garden of the old lady next door.
I vote for fence. You don't owe anyone or anyone's kids the right to frolic on your land. And god help you if someone gets hurt on your land while frolicking.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:04 AM on January 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
I agree that a fence is a good idea, and the sooner the better. Waiting until there is a serious problem rather than just claiming your space and settling into it only increases the chances of conflict with the neighbours.
If you do talk to them about your plans--which is a good idea--I recommend doing it in an "here's what we're doing, that might affect your trees" way, rather than anything that makes it sound like you are asking for permission.
posted by rpfields at 10:12 AM on January 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
If you do talk to them about your plans--which is a good idea--I recommend doing it in an "here's what we're doing, that might affect your trees" way, rather than anything that makes it sound like you are asking for permission.
posted by rpfields at 10:12 AM on January 28, 2013 [3 favorites]
Etrigan has it dead-on in my opinion. I can totally see why you'd consider a fence to be a nuclear option, and I'm honestly surprised so many people are suggesting it (especially suggesting that it's fine to just raise a fence without even telling your neighbor in advance - in my neighborhood, that wouldn't really fly) Decide what your ideal situation is, guilt-free, not what you should want, but what you do want, then take a moment to talk with the adult neighbors in a friendly way about what it is that you've decided.
About landscaping - it would be really difficult to make a non-fenced landscape border to really serve as a boundary to keep kids out. Unless you went for a solid hedge of several-year-old bushes, you're looking at young plants, meaning gaps between plants to run through, mulch to stomp on, fragile branches/twigs that kids can damage, lush greenery for toys to get lost into, low growing stuff that kids will fall over/into, etc. The younger someone is, the less of a barrier a row of spider-grass is going to be.
That said, doing some landscaping that involved planting new young plants is an excellent reason to ask kids to play less vigorously in your yard. i.e. "no, you don't have to stay out of out yard entirely, but yes, you have to stay far from the flower bed, so that means no throwing balls in this direction, no racing back and forth, etc."
posted by aimedwander at 10:22 AM on January 28, 2013
About landscaping - it would be really difficult to make a non-fenced landscape border to really serve as a boundary to keep kids out. Unless you went for a solid hedge of several-year-old bushes, you're looking at young plants, meaning gaps between plants to run through, mulch to stomp on, fragile branches/twigs that kids can damage, lush greenery for toys to get lost into, low growing stuff that kids will fall over/into, etc. The younger someone is, the less of a barrier a row of spider-grass is going to be.
That said, doing some landscaping that involved planting new young plants is an excellent reason to ask kids to play less vigorously in your yard. i.e. "no, you don't have to stay out of out yard entirely, but yes, you have to stay far from the flower bed, so that means no throwing balls in this direction, no racing back and forth, etc."
posted by aimedwander at 10:22 AM on January 28, 2013
Fence. They're kids leaving toys now, but in a few years they may be leaving beer bottles and used condoms instead. Get 'em out while you can.
posted by Andrhia at 10:27 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Andrhia at 10:27 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Tell them your very overweight uncles tend to come by and lay around the yard with no shirts on, and no one wants to see that.
Or tell them that you're a crazy gardener who is planning on planting a bunch of stuff back there.
Both are good reasons to build a fence. Then build the fence.
posted by cnc at 10:39 AM on January 28, 2013
Or tell them that you're a crazy gardener who is planning on planting a bunch of stuff back there.
Both are good reasons to build a fence. Then build the fence.
posted by cnc at 10:39 AM on January 28, 2013
As a parent of young kids, I say: fence. And if I were your neighbor I would thank you for it, because whee, free fence for me!
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:49 AM on January 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:49 AM on January 28, 2013 [5 favorites]
But yes, talk to them about it first. There are all kinds of fences, and some are more hostile than others. They might want to chip in to make an especially attractive fence, for example.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:50 AM on January 28, 2013
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:50 AM on January 28, 2013
Contrarian view. Are they decent kids? Want them to come over and babysit when they're older? Want to watch them grow up? Don't build a fence yet.
Then, when burglars come over while you're out of town, they will call the police. They will also call the fire department when they see smoke. They will be your neighbors.
We are all so isolated these days. No one knows their neighbors. It's a loss.
posted by musofire at 11:08 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
Then, when burglars come over while you're out of town, they will call the police. They will also call the fire department when they see smoke. They will be your neighbors.
We are all so isolated these days. No one knows their neighbors. It's a loss.
posted by musofire at 11:08 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
Just as a note — fences also keep out rabbits, etc. from gardens. It doesn't have to be about the kids — it can be about your lettuce not getting munched on by critters.
posted by klangklangston at 11:39 AM on January 28, 2013
posted by klangklangston at 11:39 AM on January 28, 2013
I agree with Etrigan -- but I also agree with musofire; neighbours can be a pain in the ass, but they can also be awesome. And, regardless of which they wind up to be, you still have to live next to them. Without giving them a chance, you may just push them into the former, when they could be the latter.
Communication is best; if, at the end of the day, you decide more interaction with them is not what you want, fence city.
posted by liquado at 11:45 AM on January 28, 2013
Communication is best; if, at the end of the day, you decide more interaction with them is not what you want, fence city.
posted by liquado at 11:45 AM on January 28, 2013
Count me among those who are surprised at all the cries for FENCE NOW! When I was a kid, my parents made it clear that we could run around in other people's yards, as long as we didn't damage the plants, leave our stuff behind, or do stupid things like, I don't know, dig up the lawn. So, I'd go with "talk to the parents first" and make those things clear, then let them run. For all you know, this is an awesome family that your family might like to spend time with; those kids might be awesome babysitters one day, or house sitters, or whatever. I don't know - it's a neighborhood. Try to be neighborly. If they fail at being neighborly, then build the fence.
posted by dpx.mfx at 11:46 AM on January 28, 2013
posted by dpx.mfx at 11:46 AM on January 28, 2013
I'm sort of stunned at the "having a fence makes you a bad neighbor" people. My neighbors have fences and they are perfectly lovely. We invite them to our home for barbecues. They bake us cookies for the holiday. Really, I know the people several doors down on both sides and across the street. I know them, their kids, their dogs. It's a fence, not a fortress.
They all have fences and despite what musofire opines, if there was smoke coming out of their houses, I'd call the fire department.
If you decide to put up a fence you aren't some evil, hoarder of the yard you purchased. You aren't all that is wrong with society. You're a neighbor who likes a fence.
posted by 26.2 at 11:59 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
They all have fences and despite what musofire opines, if there was smoke coming out of their houses, I'd call the fire department.
If you decide to put up a fence you aren't some evil, hoarder of the yard you purchased. You aren't all that is wrong with society. You're a neighbor who likes a fence.
posted by 26.2 at 11:59 AM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
Really? Everybody is so against kids running around? I say ask them and the parents that they pick up their own toys and just let them play. Are you out trying to relax in your backyard every day? Are they running over your chaise lounge and your pitcher of mimosa's? I get having a yard for the first time but you also have neighbors...with kids... Will it kill you to let them use your space to stretch their legs? I agree that they need to clean up after themselves but let them run on your property a bit.... as long as they aren't damaging anything... Be a cool neighbor-friend, you may need their help one day.
posted by pearlybob at 11:59 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by pearlybob at 11:59 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
If the kids are old enough to read, it might be nice to make a "contract" with them and have them sign it -- they can promise not to leave their toys around, dig holes, move anything you own, walk on garden areas, play too much in one area so that that spot becomes a packed earth patch, or play very loudly during certain times -- in exchange for being able to use your yard.
You might want to look into liability issues, too -- it may be that you'd like their parents to pre-emptively absolve you of responsibility for leaving a rake out that a kid steps on and gets tetanus, or for leaving a ladder out that a kid climbs and falls from, stuff like that. Just an informally signed note would be better than nothing, just in case.
posted by amtho at 12:12 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
You might want to look into liability issues, too -- it may be that you'd like their parents to pre-emptively absolve you of responsibility for leaving a rake out that a kid steps on and gets tetanus, or for leaving a ladder out that a kid climbs and falls from, stuff like that. Just an informally signed note would be better than nothing, just in case.
posted by amtho at 12:12 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
If the kids are old enough to read, it might be nice to make a "contract" with them and have them sign it -- they can promise not to leave their toys around, dig holes, move anything you own, walk on garden areas, play too much in one area so that that spot becomes a packed earth patch, or play very loudly during certain times -- in exchange for being able to use your yard.
Oh my god, I wish I'd thought of that when we were talking to the neighbor. Except I would have included the Solemn Responsibility To Guard My Yard Against Alien Invasion -- a paragraph wherein it was clearly stated that defense against any invasion of space aliens (except bugs) was the sole responsibility of the children involved, within the constraints of any other articles, and that adults were expressly not allowed to interfere and screw it up. And then give the kids badges.
posted by Etrigan at 12:28 PM on January 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
Oh my god, I wish I'd thought of that when we were talking to the neighbor. Except I would have included the Solemn Responsibility To Guard My Yard Against Alien Invasion -- a paragraph wherein it was clearly stated that defense against any invasion of space aliens (except bugs) was the sole responsibility of the children involved, within the constraints of any other articles, and that adults were expressly not allowed to interfere and screw it up. And then give the kids badges.
posted by Etrigan at 12:28 PM on January 28, 2013 [6 favorites]
We have free range children in our neighborhood and for the most part I have no issue when they play in our yard. They have been explicitly told that they do not play on our deck, or in the garage, or take things from our yard with asking directly for it.
Last summer there was a small issue with something going missing from the yard and then turning up in a completely different location. I said something to the girl-child of the pair, she nodded as if she understood. Boy-child proceeded to declare he knew nothing about the missing thing. Girl-child lightly cuffed him on the back of the head and told him to be quiet.
A day later they both showed up with their mother to formally apologize for taking things without asking.
From time to time they've wanted to play with us while we're in the yard working, and sometime I don't mind the company and I let them hang out. Other times, I tell them I need quiet yard time and check back later.
It really all depends on the kid and the age of the children. We're lucky, these kids are in the 7-10 range and the parents are good with discipline. If the situation was less positive I'd absolutely think about a fence.
posted by teleri025 at 12:36 PM on January 28, 2013
Last summer there was a small issue with something going missing from the yard and then turning up in a completely different location. I said something to the girl-child of the pair, she nodded as if she understood. Boy-child proceeded to declare he knew nothing about the missing thing. Girl-child lightly cuffed him on the back of the head and told him to be quiet.
A day later they both showed up with their mother to formally apologize for taking things without asking.
From time to time they've wanted to play with us while we're in the yard working, and sometime I don't mind the company and I let them hang out. Other times, I tell them I need quiet yard time and check back later.
It really all depends on the kid and the age of the children. We're lucky, these kids are in the 7-10 range and the parents are good with discipline. If the situation was less positive I'd absolutely think about a fence.
posted by teleri025 at 12:36 PM on January 28, 2013
IANAL- but I deal with property lines a lot for work. Do you know for sure that where the line is? Do you have an actual survey or was this what your real estate agent told you? What are the rules in your state/county/city re property lines? It would help tremendously if you could contact them prior to fencing in an area. How far does the tree extend? Is it a branch or the whole tree? How do you know it's "theirs"?
I do believe in the old adage "fences make good neighbors" particularly in areas with small lots. As people here are pointing out that there's nothing wrong in claiming your property. However that's up to you as far as your willingness to allow the kids to play. My point would be to have the area surveyed professionally before approaching your neighbors about the kids and lines etc..
posted by lasamana at 12:41 PM on January 28, 2013
I do believe in the old adage "fences make good neighbors" particularly in areas with small lots. As people here are pointing out that there's nothing wrong in claiming your property. However that's up to you as far as your willingness to allow the kids to play. My point would be to have the area surveyed professionally before approaching your neighbors about the kids and lines etc..
posted by lasamana at 12:41 PM on January 28, 2013
Response by poster: Lots of worthwhile things to consider here. Thanks to everyone who's weighed in. In case anyone's wondering, I'm leaning towards wait-and-see despite the good arguments for putting up a fence right away.
lasamana: we had a new survey done when we bought the house, so we're sure. They have a first-floor window bay that just touches the property line, so if we put a fence there, it'd be all-but-touching their house and effectively preventing any access to the side of the house while blocking their basement windows, etc. This is the situation on the other side of their house, so we'd be fencing in the only side access to their house which, while legal, doesn't seem particularly neighborly.
posted by ndg at 1:08 PM on January 28, 2013
lasamana: we had a new survey done when we bought the house, so we're sure. They have a first-floor window bay that just touches the property line, so if we put a fence there, it'd be all-but-touching their house and effectively preventing any access to the side of the house while blocking their basement windows, etc. This is the situation on the other side of their house, so we'd be fencing in the only side access to their house which, while legal, doesn't seem particularly neighborly.
posted by ndg at 1:08 PM on January 28, 2013
As a parent and homeowner and your theoretical neighbor, I'd absolutely want to know if my kids were going on your lawn. Even if your predecessor and I had agreed to allow my kids access to your lawn, that agreement disappeared once you moved in. I would have told my kids "do not go onto new neighbor's lawn until and unless you get the okay". And I'd also want to know if their crap gets left on your property.
Personally, if you didn't mind letting them play on your lawn within reason, I'd be really appreciative of your allowing it. A fence doesn't have to be a physical thing, and I'm in the crowd that thinks that walling off tiny-assed city lots can be detrimental to a neighborhood. At the same time, though, it wouldn't hurt our relationship if you put up a fence along the line. And if I had planted a tree that was impeding that fence line, again, I'd rather you come tell me about it. Because if you planted anything that was starting to affect my property, I'd be ringing your doorbell toot sweet.
posted by disconnect at 1:34 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Personally, if you didn't mind letting them play on your lawn within reason, I'd be really appreciative of your allowing it. A fence doesn't have to be a physical thing, and I'm in the crowd that thinks that walling off tiny-assed city lots can be detrimental to a neighborhood. At the same time, though, it wouldn't hurt our relationship if you put up a fence along the line. And if I had planted a tree that was impeding that fence line, again, I'd rather you come tell me about it. Because if you planted anything that was starting to affect my property, I'd be ringing your doorbell toot sweet.
posted by disconnect at 1:34 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
As a previous Board Member of a Homeowners Association, here's what I've learned: If you get along well with your neighbor, nothing they do is going to bother you..including toys in your yard. If you don't get along with your neighbors, EVERYTHING they do, no matter how small, is going to piss you off.
The kids toys are only bothering you at his point because you don't "know" your neighbors. If this family turns out to be your best friends, you're going to feel completely different.
So don't get a fence because of the kids toys....just wait and see how your relationship develops. Get a fence if you want a fence or like the looks of a fence or wanted to keep your dog(s) in your own yard, etc. In other words, get a fence for you, not for your neighbor.
posted by MoJoPokeyBlue at 2:00 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
The kids toys are only bothering you at his point because you don't "know" your neighbors. If this family turns out to be your best friends, you're going to feel completely different.
So don't get a fence because of the kids toys....just wait and see how your relationship develops. Get a fence if you want a fence or like the looks of a fence or wanted to keep your dog(s) in your own yard, etc. In other words, get a fence for you, not for your neighbor.
posted by MoJoPokeyBlue at 2:00 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Having grown up in the city, I can say that a fence will not wreck a relationship with your neighbors. It will preserve it. It doesn't have to be a 6 foot tall opaque fence, it can be a 4 foot chain link. That's what we always had, and it kept everyone corralled nicely.
If you want to be a polite/weasel about it, you can make something up about your insurance giving you a discount if you put in a fence, or that your brother in law has a dog that might visit sometimes.
posted by gjc at 2:22 PM on January 28, 2013
If you want to be a polite/weasel about it, you can make something up about your insurance giving you a discount if you put in a fence, or that your brother in law has a dog that might visit sometimes.
posted by gjc at 2:22 PM on January 28, 2013
They have a first-floor window bay that just touches the property line, so if we put a fence there, it'd be all-but-touching their house and effectively preventing any access to the side of the house while blocking their basement windows, etc. This is the situation on the other side of their house, so we'd be fencing in the only side access to their house which, while legal, doesn't seem particularly neighborly.
I'm just curious - how small are these lots? (please don't answer if you don't want to). You're right in that it doesn't seem especially neighborly to put up a fence that would be right under their noses so to speak. I am going to assume that the lot size is similar in and around your neighborhood. My suggestion would be to drive/walk around and see how other neighbors have dealt with it. My own personal preference in such a small space is to use some sort of hedge border like a boxwood or some kind of evergreen along the line - maybe small ones now with the thought as they grow they will effectively (in a non-confrontational way) fence in your yard. It creates a fence that usually most people like to look at.
While I know that you don't want to fence in, it certainly is not your problem that their window is right on the line. However I would call your city planning department regarding any fencing or hedges prior to such a move - either now or in the future.
OTH I didn't grow up in a city but a suburb where kids routinely cut through other peoples yards to get from place to place. It was probably pretty rude but we never even thought about it. I guess the wait and see attitude is best. If it is intolerable over the summer, as a parent I'd like to know if my kids were being a pain.
posted by lasamana at 3:08 PM on January 28, 2013
I'm just curious - how small are these lots? (please don't answer if you don't want to). You're right in that it doesn't seem especially neighborly to put up a fence that would be right under their noses so to speak. I am going to assume that the lot size is similar in and around your neighborhood. My suggestion would be to drive/walk around and see how other neighbors have dealt with it. My own personal preference in such a small space is to use some sort of hedge border like a boxwood or some kind of evergreen along the line - maybe small ones now with the thought as they grow they will effectively (in a non-confrontational way) fence in your yard. It creates a fence that usually most people like to look at.
While I know that you don't want to fence in, it certainly is not your problem that their window is right on the line. However I would call your city planning department regarding any fencing or hedges prior to such a move - either now or in the future.
OTH I didn't grow up in a city but a suburb where kids routinely cut through other peoples yards to get from place to place. It was probably pretty rude but we never even thought about it. I guess the wait and see attitude is best. If it is intolerable over the summer, as a parent I'd like to know if my kids were being a pain.
posted by lasamana at 3:08 PM on January 28, 2013
There really is a reason why the saying "Good fences make good neighbors" exists.
Yes, but it's also a misreading of the poem. Something there is that doesn't love a wall, that wants it down. Frost.
posted by gerryblog at 4:35 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes, but it's also a misreading of the poem. Something there is that doesn't love a wall, that wants it down. Frost.
posted by gerryblog at 4:35 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
The sooner you put up a fence, the happier the outcome will be for EVERYONE.
*The longer you let the neighbor kids free-range through your property, the more passive-agressive it would feel if you were wait to put in that fence in a couple years.
*Have your property lines professionally checked, then have the fence installed as close to ON the line as legally allowed.
*Plantings are nice, but as many other folks say, the kids will NOT respect that as a "don't walk here" line.
*It's kind of you to worry about where their kids will play, but that's not your problem, is it?
*And think about this: if you DON'T put up a fence to demarcate yours/theirs, anytime you want to use your yard will end up as a totally public event. Say you want to have a couple friends over for a cookout..... those kids are going to be right there with you and your guests. No fence = you will be unable to use your own yard.
Put up a fence, and do it as soon as possible: good fences make good neighbors.
posted by easily confused at 4:44 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
*The longer you let the neighbor kids free-range through your property, the more passive-agressive it would feel if you were wait to put in that fence in a couple years.
*Have your property lines professionally checked, then have the fence installed as close to ON the line as legally allowed.
*Plantings are nice, but as many other folks say, the kids will NOT respect that as a "don't walk here" line.
*It's kind of you to worry about where their kids will play, but that's not your problem, is it?
*And think about this: if you DON'T put up a fence to demarcate yours/theirs, anytime you want to use your yard will end up as a totally public event. Say you want to have a couple friends over for a cookout..... those kids are going to be right there with you and your guests. No fence = you will be unable to use your own yard.
Put up a fence, and do it as soon as possible: good fences make good neighbors.
posted by easily confused at 4:44 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's not really reasonable to expect children to spontaneously decide to obey invisible property lines on principle. It's not cool of them to leave their toys behind your house, but this minor infraction doesn't signify that the children are out-of-control savages who will never respect your property and will soon be littering it with empty beer cans and worse.
A hedge or garden or other landscaping will likely work just fine as a reminder of where the neighbor's yard starts. It will make it easier for their parents to enforce good behavior by their children, too. It's a lot clearer to say "all your toys need to be on this side of the ndg's garden" rather than "all of your toys need to be moved to a space on the other side of the invisible line extending from the edge of the window." Likewise, random kids might indiscriminately trample a garden on anonymous "thoroughfare" land, but it's reasonable to expect a little more consideration from your direct neighbors.
posted by desuetude at 6:14 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
A hedge or garden or other landscaping will likely work just fine as a reminder of where the neighbor's yard starts. It will make it easier for their parents to enforce good behavior by their children, too. It's a lot clearer to say "all your toys need to be on this side of the ndg's garden" rather than "all of your toys need to be moved to a space on the other side of the invisible line extending from the edge of the window." Likewise, random kids might indiscriminately trample a garden on anonymous "thoroughfare" land, but it's reasonable to expect a little more consideration from your direct neighbors.
posted by desuetude at 6:14 PM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your neighbors' house nudging the property line is not your problem. If you want a fence, if you want a very private yard, it's fine. If you don't want a fence, ask the parents to enforce some picking up. This is reasonable. Some landscaping will help if you want a better-defined property line. I like kids a lot, and don't mind if the kids in my neighborhood play in my yard. I am surprised how much I like the fact that the kids are extremely polite and always ask permission. It's better to be more restrictive to start; it's probably somewhat expected. Better to start out less mellow and then chill than the reverse.
posted by theora55 at 8:21 PM on January 28, 2013
posted by theora55 at 8:21 PM on January 28, 2013
You seem like a person who wants to try really, really hard to be "nice." Is this something that you genuinely want to do, or are you trying to avoid stepping on toes because you're new?
If they built their bay window right to the edge of the property line, that was a /bad mistake/. Because it /is/ a property line, and you have every right to put up a fence on your property line, and their bad planning should not make for your suffering.
I may be saying this as a New Yorker who really, really, values land, but: you bought that house, right? When you bought that house, you had to pay a higher price because of the yard which was bigger, right? You did not buy your house with the expectation of using anyone else's property than your own. Neither should their parents. There is no reason to allow anyone onto your private property without an invitation, whether they are adorable urchins or not.
I definitely agree that it's hard for kids to respect invisible property lines, though - so make it a visible one.
If you want to be a nice guy (and again, this is your prerogative), then put in a low fence. Not a six-foot privacy fence, but maybe a three-foot wooden one. It marks the border, but people can see over and climb over if they absolutely must.
But know that it's you being a prince.
posted by corb at 8:26 PM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
If they built their bay window right to the edge of the property line, that was a /bad mistake/. Because it /is/ a property line, and you have every right to put up a fence on your property line, and their bad planning should not make for your suffering.
I may be saying this as a New Yorker who really, really, values land, but: you bought that house, right? When you bought that house, you had to pay a higher price because of the yard which was bigger, right? You did not buy your house with the expectation of using anyone else's property than your own. Neither should their parents. There is no reason to allow anyone onto your private property without an invitation, whether they are adorable urchins or not.
I definitely agree that it's hard for kids to respect invisible property lines, though - so make it a visible one.
If you want to be a nice guy (and again, this is your prerogative), then put in a low fence. Not a six-foot privacy fence, but maybe a three-foot wooden one. It marks the border, but people can see over and climb over if they absolutely must.
But know that it's you being a prince.
posted by corb at 8:26 PM on January 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Fence is going in on Monday. Thanks, AskMeFi!
posted by ndg at 10:41 AM on March 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by ndg at 10:41 AM on March 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
If the cost is too high, then perhaps plant some little hedges along the property line, although whether those will withstand kids trampling over them is another matter. And they don't give you the privacy a fence does.
posted by MuffinMan at 9:03 AM on January 28, 2013 [16 favorites]