I need a re-boot.
December 11, 2012 2:38 PM Subscribe
Yes, it's a men's shoes question. Even better, a men's boots question. I hate dress shoes, so I want to give dress boots a try. Does what I want exist, or am I splitting hairs?
I just got a pair of Clarks that I love, but they're nowhere near "dressy". I like them enough that I'm willing to venture out into the dress-shoe wild for dress boots. My list of desirables, in rough order of priority:
-- Black. Not an "antiqued" or "fatigued" finish. But not mirror-polished.
-- Laced. NOTHING SQUARE TOE.
-- Looks decent enough to wear with a suit (but a modern-cut suit, so not necessarily super conservative). Cocktail-party appropriate.
-- Shineable decent-quality leather upper.
-- Leather outsole (or unobtrusive rubber).
-- Comfortable.
-- Resole-able.
-- Less than $250. Ideally around $200 (or under).
-- Maybe a little wingtip or brogue detail.
-- Year-round possible wear, though I'd avoid wearing them in snow & ice & salt.
I will probably only wear these, at most, a dozen times a year, at least for the next three years.
Here's what I've found so far (bear with me):
Johnston & Murphy Suffolk Plain Toe Boot: a little on the conservative side, but the current mid-priced front-runner. Not sure if it's resoleable.
Frye Fulton Lace Up: texture of the upper seems a little weird (pebbled?); maybe not dressy enough. I would like Fryes, though.
Frye Jamie Brogue Boot: On the expensive side. Upper has a bit of that "fatigued" look.
Frye James Lace Up: A higher-priced frontrunner. Some reviews suggest that the gray "antiqued" finish comes off with some shoe polish. As-is, a little casual.
Hush Puppies Five Boot: Looks comfortable, but that sole is UGLY. I know I'd judge someone wearing it with a suit.
Steve Madden Evander 2: Looks low-quality. Some reviewers complain about leather. Probably not resoleable, but cheap enough to be occasionally disposable.
Stacy Adams Madison Boot: A lower-priced frontrunner. Ditto above, but a lot of glowing reviews. Probably good for the price?
Anyone have any experience with any of these? Or in general, which price bracket should I focus on, considering my use case? Anything else I should look at?
I just got a pair of Clarks that I love, but they're nowhere near "dressy". I like them enough that I'm willing to venture out into the dress-shoe wild for dress boots. My list of desirables, in rough order of priority:
-- Black. Not an "antiqued" or "fatigued" finish. But not mirror-polished.
-- Laced. NOTHING SQUARE TOE.
-- Looks decent enough to wear with a suit (but a modern-cut suit, so not necessarily super conservative). Cocktail-party appropriate.
-- Shineable decent-quality leather upper.
-- Leather outsole (or unobtrusive rubber).
-- Comfortable.
-- Resole-able.
-- Less than $250. Ideally around $200 (or under).
-- Maybe a little wingtip or brogue detail.
-- Year-round possible wear, though I'd avoid wearing them in snow & ice & salt.
I will probably only wear these, at most, a dozen times a year, at least for the next three years.
Here's what I've found so far (bear with me):
Johnston & Murphy Suffolk Plain Toe Boot: a little on the conservative side, but the current mid-priced front-runner. Not sure if it's resoleable.
Frye Fulton Lace Up: texture of the upper seems a little weird (pebbled?); maybe not dressy enough. I would like Fryes, though.
Frye Jamie Brogue Boot: On the expensive side. Upper has a bit of that "fatigued" look.
Frye James Lace Up: A higher-priced frontrunner. Some reviews suggest that the gray "antiqued" finish comes off with some shoe polish. As-is, a little casual.
Hush Puppies Five Boot: Looks comfortable, but that sole is UGLY. I know I'd judge someone wearing it with a suit.
Steve Madden Evander 2: Looks low-quality. Some reviewers complain about leather. Probably not resoleable, but cheap enough to be occasionally disposable.
Stacy Adams Madison Boot: A lower-priced frontrunner. Ditto above, but a lot of glowing reviews. Probably good for the price?
Anyone have any experience with any of these? Or in general, which price bracket should I focus on, considering my use case? Anything else I should look at?
Best answer: I think what you want is a Chelsea boot. Something like this (if it were in black) might fit the bill.
These are somewhat out of your price range, but Allen Edmonds often has clearance/seconds sales that are not well publicized. If you were to go with them, try something on in the store first to get your size - the sales are in their warehouse store only, but if you have your size you can call them and order over the phone.
posted by backseatpilot at 2:44 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
These are somewhat out of your price range, but Allen Edmonds often has clearance/seconds sales that are not well publicized. If you were to go with them, try something on in the store first to get your size - the sales are in their warehouse store only, but if you have your size you can call them and order over the phone.
posted by backseatpilot at 2:44 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: If you really intend to wear these with a suit then only the J&Ms are ok.
Personally I'd look for a pair of Allen Edmonds like the Fifth Street on sale.
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:45 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Personally I'd look for a pair of Allen Edmonds like the Fifth Street on sale.
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:45 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
(yes backseatpilot exactly)
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:46 PM on December 11, 2012
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:46 PM on December 11, 2012
Best answer: I don't think the kind of shoe you want is available under $250.
Allen Edmonds is having a sale on these badboys for $300.
Both Allen Edmonds and Alden have drool worthy dress boots. There are English brands that make awesome dress boots too, but they are even pricier.
posted by mullacc at 2:47 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Allen Edmonds is having a sale on these badboys for $300.
Both Allen Edmonds and Alden have drool worthy dress boots. There are English brands that make awesome dress boots too, but they are even pricier.
posted by mullacc at 2:47 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Florsheim's Doon Chukka looks pretty sweet, and it's in your price range easily. The Gaffney lace-up boot has a bit more detail (wingtips).
FWIW I'm under the impression that all Frye shoes come with distressed leather.
posted by carsonb at 2:49 PM on December 11, 2012
FWIW I'm under the impression that all Frye shoes come with distressed leather.
posted by carsonb at 2:49 PM on December 11, 2012
Response by poster: Ooh, I do love those Allen Edmonds. But it's really tough to justify them at only a handful of times a year. (I'm already the dressiest person in the office with the aforementioned Clarks, button-downs, and chinos.)
I had the same feeling, 2b+, that almost none of them really fit the "wear with suit" bill.
I think something in the same quality/price range as the J&Ms, maybe a little less boring, would be perfect.
posted by supercres at 3:08 PM on December 11, 2012
I had the same feeling, 2b+, that almost none of them really fit the "wear with suit" bill.
I think something in the same quality/price range as the J&Ms, maybe a little less boring, would be perfect.
posted by supercres at 3:08 PM on December 11, 2012
Red Wing Postman Chukka This looks like a Good Shoe. (I like the Beckman Chukka better, but it's another $100.)
Lloyd shoes have some intriguing possibilities, namely the Vento, Ventura, Kioto (most similar to the J&M), and the Tanus (a captoe, maybe just the right amount of detail). But they aren't sold in the US apparently.
Wallin Bros. Lisbon Wingtip is nice too.
posted by carsonb at 3:32 PM on December 11, 2012
Lloyd shoes have some intriguing possibilities, namely the Vento, Ventura, Kioto (most similar to the J&M), and the Tanus (a captoe, maybe just the right amount of detail). But they aren't sold in the US apparently.
Wallin Bros. Lisbon Wingtip is nice too.
posted by carsonb at 3:32 PM on December 11, 2012
Best answer: I'll be honest with you, I think you will regret buying this boot at $250. The difference between $250 and $350 (retail) in men's dress shoes is the difference between something priced far above what it's worth and something that will last for 20 years. Regardless, DO NOT BUY Stacy Adams boots if you want a good shoe.
I would look into Allen Edmonds and Alden, and I would consider this an investment in my future.
posted by OmieWise at 4:20 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
I would look into Allen Edmonds and Alden, and I would consider this an investment in my future.
posted by OmieWise at 4:20 PM on December 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Echoing OmieWise. Buy those Fifth Streets and fuckin' strut.
posted by carsonb at 4:39 PM on December 11, 2012
posted by carsonb at 4:39 PM on December 11, 2012
I'm a big fan of Sandro Moscoloni dress shoes (which may make me a terrible person, I don't know, but anyway)—I usually buy a couple pairs at a time. I'm not into the boots myself, but they make some nice ones. DSW / Sandro Moscoloni 1 / Sandro Moscoloni 2.
posted by emelenjr at 5:59 PM on December 11, 2012
posted by emelenjr at 5:59 PM on December 11, 2012
3rding the Allen Edmonds. These are not shoes, they are wardrobe pieces for a lifetime. They are on sale at $300 and I think the extra $50 is $50 you will regret. They are also an AWESOME company and cannot do enough to help you. Zappos shmappos.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:00 PM on December 11, 2012
posted by DarlingBri at 6:00 PM on December 11, 2012
Also chiming in to say stay away from the Stacy Adams. The leather is really thin, squeaks, and will crease in weird places after only a few wearings. The sole also wears very quickly. I have a pair I bought for costume use (meaning I only wear a few times a year) and they already look worn out.
posted by Wossname at 6:06 PM on December 11, 2012
posted by Wossname at 6:06 PM on December 11, 2012
Have you looked at any of ecco's shoes/boots?
By far the most comfortable dress shoes and boots I've ever worn.
posted by nickthetourist at 6:19 PM on December 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
By far the most comfortable dress shoes and boots I've ever worn.
posted by nickthetourist at 6:19 PM on December 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I just picked up a pair of the Allen Edmonds 'Long Branch' boots and they're great. Now, I got them on clearance for $175 because they're in the dark gray shade. And they're probably more 'work boot' in appearance (due to the vibram sole) that you might want for 'dress' appearance. But, much like all my other AE shoes, these are terrifically comfortable. Quite a bit more so than some new Red Wing boots I got a few weeks ago.
From how you describe the style you're looking for, I have to say something from the AE line is definitely something you should consider. They do tend to make more conservative/dressy looking stuff; even their casual stuff.
I've worn AE footwear almost exclusively for the past 28 years and I can definitely say they've been worth the price paid, in comfort, durability and appearance. One pair has got to be at least 25 years old, has been reconditioned at least twice and still feels and looks wonderful to wear.
posted by wkearney99 at 7:22 PM on December 11, 2012
From how you describe the style you're looking for, I have to say something from the AE line is definitely something you should consider. They do tend to make more conservative/dressy looking stuff; even their casual stuff.
I've worn AE footwear almost exclusively for the past 28 years and I can definitely say they've been worth the price paid, in comfort, durability and appearance. One pair has got to be at least 25 years old, has been reconditioned at least twice and still feels and looks wonderful to wear.
posted by wkearney99 at 7:22 PM on December 11, 2012
Best answer: I want to chime in with the voices saying it's worth saving up to buy better, more expensive shoes that will last longer. Admiral Haddock says it nicely in this thread, which you might enjoy: "There is an old chestnut that a $200 pair of shoes will last exactly twice as long as a $100 pair of shoes, but a $300 pair of shoes will last a lifetime."
Those Allen Edmonds are drool-worthy. They're classic and will look good for twenty years. I wish it were the case with women's shoes that price was an indicator of quality instead of an indicator of... who knows what.
(FWIW I once threatened to sit next to the Allen Edmonds at my neighbourhood shoe store and propose to any man who walked in and bought a pair. It was the boots in particular that wooed me!)
posted by looli at 7:28 PM on December 11, 2012
Those Allen Edmonds are drool-worthy. They're classic and will look good for twenty years. I wish it were the case with women's shoes that price was an indicator of quality instead of an indicator of... who knows what.
(FWIW I once threatened to sit next to the Allen Edmonds at my neighbourhood shoe store and propose to any man who walked in and bought a pair. It was the boots in particular that wooed me!)
posted by looli at 7:28 PM on December 11, 2012
The trouble with dress boots is that they're such an odd item that there just aren't a lot of makers, and they don't even turn up used very often. Most men who wear suits don't wear boots with them; most men who want a pair of boots for wear with a suit are rich (they can afford all the basic formal shoes first and still have money for dress boots) so dress boots are expensive. Why do you want dress boots? Here is the thing: I've seen the AE Fifth Street boot, and it is not something you can wear with chinos, and it would probably look a bit odd even with dark jeans in fancy Japanese denim. It's a very delicate looking boot. You'd be wearing it only with a suit or with wool pants. Is that something you'd be doing often enough (or for important enough occasions) to merit spending the money?
Allen Edmonds shoes on the other hand turn up nearly new on eBay all the time. You could readily get fitted at an AE store and then buy via eBay - AE has a set of lasts for all their shoes, so if you are a 10 in one shoe built on Last A you will be a 10 in all shoes built on Last A - and which shoe is which can be figured out online. You could get a nice pair of dark brown brogues (the McAllister, I think) on a double leather sole and wear them both with chinos and with a less formal suit.
AE boots tend to run into money and the good ones are scarce - for some reason, they've gotten rid of the Bayfield (their most popular model) and phased out most of their chukkas and brought out a sort of strange trendy collection this year.
What I've heard is that the Loake 1880 collection, which is made in England, is pretty good value for money. You can get a chukka from Pediwear for about $200 USD plus shipping (remember that you won't be charged VAT), which should come in under your $250 limit. You could wear those with a suit. Pediwear is dead reliable - I've ordered from them multiple times.
posted by Frowner at 7:30 PM on December 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Allen Edmonds shoes on the other hand turn up nearly new on eBay all the time. You could readily get fitted at an AE store and then buy via eBay - AE has a set of lasts for all their shoes, so if you are a 10 in one shoe built on Last A you will be a 10 in all shoes built on Last A - and which shoe is which can be figured out online. You could get a nice pair of dark brown brogues (the McAllister, I think) on a double leather sole and wear them both with chinos and with a less formal suit.
AE boots tend to run into money and the good ones are scarce - for some reason, they've gotten rid of the Bayfield (their most popular model) and phased out most of their chukkas and brought out a sort of strange trendy collection this year.
What I've heard is that the Loake 1880 collection, which is made in England, is pretty good value for money. You can get a chukka from Pediwear for about $200 USD plus shipping (remember that you won't be charged VAT), which should come in under your $250 limit. You could wear those with a suit. Pediwear is dead reliable - I've ordered from them multiple times.
posted by Frowner at 7:30 PM on December 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: You guys (and ladies) are seriously tempting me towards the AEs. Birthday's coming up, so I may be able to get parents and wife to contribute...
Frowner: I really like all my casual shoes, so I'm ok with sticking with those for chinos and jeans. This is really just for occasions where I would wear a black dress shoe (my suits are gray and black; no blue or browns). So your description sounds ok. If I go with those, I will definitely try them on first; there's an AE retail store near where I'm vacationing in a few weeks.
I just set up Ebay alerts for Allen Edmonds in what I guess will be my size; I'll try to get to the local stores that sell them to get sized for real. (Sorry, local businesses.) That's for both shoes and boots; I'm starting to think that the reason I hate dress shoes is because I've only had shitty ones.
Thanks all!
posted by supercres at 8:15 PM on December 11, 2012
Frowner: I really like all my casual shoes, so I'm ok with sticking with those for chinos and jeans. This is really just for occasions where I would wear a black dress shoe (my suits are gray and black; no blue or browns). So your description sounds ok. If I go with those, I will definitely try them on first; there's an AE retail store near where I'm vacationing in a few weeks.
I just set up Ebay alerts for Allen Edmonds in what I guess will be my size; I'll try to get to the local stores that sell them to get sized for real. (Sorry, local businesses.) That's for both shoes and boots; I'm starting to think that the reason I hate dress shoes is because I've only had shitty ones.
Thanks all!
posted by supercres at 8:15 PM on December 11, 2012
My fiance has Steve Madden boots similar to the ones you linked to (I think his were cheaper than that and he got them recently, so maybe a slightly different model). He really likes them. He wears them to work with jeans (SF tech startup) but they could dress up.
posted by radioamy at 8:32 PM on December 11, 2012
posted by radioamy at 8:32 PM on December 11, 2012
Echoing what was said above, there's a WORLD of options for you, just not at the pricepoint you're looking for. If you're setting up ebay alerts for AE and Alden, you might also shoot for the moon, and set up similar alerts for any one or more of the following:
Church's
John Lobb
Gaziano and Girling
Grenson
Loake
Crockett and Jones
Edward Green
Alfred Sargent
Vass
Some of these (Church's, JL, G&G, Church's, Vass) retail for way above your price range, but it's ebay, so you might get a deal. The others tend to retail for slightly above your price range, so you might have better luck finding something for $200-250 if you keep an eye out. Fair warning though--this stuff can become an addiction, so be careful out there!
posted by weaponsgradecarp at 6:43 AM on December 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Church's
John Lobb
Gaziano and Girling
Grenson
Loake
Crockett and Jones
Edward Green
Alfred Sargent
Vass
Some of these (Church's, JL, G&G, Church's, Vass) retail for way above your price range, but it's ebay, so you might get a deal. The others tend to retail for slightly above your price range, so you might have better luck finding something for $200-250 if you keep an eye out. Fair warning though--this stuff can become an addiction, so be careful out there!
posted by weaponsgradecarp at 6:43 AM on December 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, and if you want the finest slip-on Chelsea's in all the land (which look certifiably great with a suit), you can't go wrong with RM Williams. Really, they're wonderful. And will last FOR-pause-EV-pause-ER.
posted by weaponsgradecarp at 6:46 AM on December 12, 2012
posted by weaponsgradecarp at 6:46 AM on December 12, 2012
I have many pairs of Allen Edmonds and a pair of Alden. After a lifetime of crappy dress shoes, I am still amazed at how good they are.
posted by Silvertree at 8:55 AM on December 12, 2012
posted by Silvertree at 8:55 AM on December 12, 2012
My boyfriend just got a pair of Kenneth Cole. They seem to fit most your criteria and are on zappos.
posted by p1nkdaisy at 9:20 AM on December 12, 2012
posted by p1nkdaisy at 9:20 AM on December 12, 2012
Response by poster: If anyone is still reading or comes across this in the future: I tried to buy the A-E Daltons when I went to the Allen Edmonds store to try on a few pairs. (They were a bit more versatile than the Fifth Streets.) When I got them home, I noticed that the shoelace eyelets are WAY uneven. Returned the next day and they didn't have another pair in my size. Also noticed that the display pairs kinda had the same problem... I know they're handmade, but I'm just symmetry-obsessive enough to be driven crazy by that. So I returned them a bit sad.
Today I got an email: the Fifth Streets are on further clearance-- down to $250. Couldn't resist. Went for those. They're a little more limited to dress-only but can't be beat for that price. Even with two-day shipping they're still more than $100 less than the Daltons I tried to buy, and they'll be here in time for New Year's Eve.
Thanks, all, for the advice!
posted by supercres at 2:01 PM on December 25, 2012
Today I got an email: the Fifth Streets are on further clearance-- down to $250. Couldn't resist. Went for those. They're a little more limited to dress-only but can't be beat for that price. Even with two-day shipping they're still more than $100 less than the Daltons I tried to buy, and they'll be here in time for New Year's Eve.
Thanks, all, for the advice!
posted by supercres at 2:01 PM on December 25, 2012
Response by poster: (Keeping the saved search on eBay though. Brown oxfords or wingtips are next...)
posted by supercres at 2:05 PM on December 25, 2012
posted by supercres at 2:05 PM on December 25, 2012
Response by poster: The Fifth Streets came in time for the New Year's cocktail party and are all-around great. Now I just need more fancy occasions on which to wear them. (I already bought one pair of wool pants with them specifically in mind.)
posted by supercres at 8:36 PM on January 24, 2013
posted by supercres at 8:36 PM on January 24, 2013
You know what I have noticed? When I place a semi-special-order with AE, they are really nice. (I'm an odd size, so it's rare that they actually have my size in stock on the shelf, so it usually takes a few weeks.) I have heard, however, that off-the-shelf AEs have had some quality slippage lately - the company has been growing by leaps and bounds, and either their quality control isn't where it needs to be or possibly new staff are still learning.
I have a pair of flawed Fifth Streets that I got via Ebay - they have a small hole in the leather lining at the ankle, which my shoe guy patched. They are awfully nice.
I also ordered a pair of Randolph loafers in the grey leather that was apparently such a dud this season - perfect fit out of the box, wildly comfortable, leather has a depth and finish that remind me of Berluti a little bit (I mean, not the same quality, but a nice colored leather with an attractive patinated finish with lots of depth). And since I won't be getting any Berlutis any time soon, that will have to do.
What I heard was that AE overbought the grey leather this year, which is why all the grey leather shoes except the Park Avenue went on deep, deep sale. They even ended up selling a Dalton boot in the grey calf, something that was not in the fall catalogue and must have been added to use up the leather, at a deep deep discount via the website. (I have a pair on order and am really excited to get them.)
Also, they've started doing some production in Puerto Rico instead of the mainland US. I don't know how I feel about that - no objection at all to decent jobs in PR, but a little concerned because usually offshoring involves an increase in volume and a drop in quality even if they say it won't.
Also, a sad truth: I have handled AEs from ten years ago, and they are nicer, with better leather and a solider feel. Of course, what one hears among shoe experts is that even the best firms like C&J are not what they were in the sixties or seventies or before - that a seventies C&J is the equal of a contemporary Edward Green and a sixties AE is the equal of a contemporary C&J, at least in terms of quality and finish. People talk about forties Florsheim Imperials in a way that suggests that they were about as good as today's Trickers or Church's.
Anyway! We live in a sad and decayed time, but we must still soldier on in our search for attractive footwear. Glad the Fifth Streets are working out for you.
posted by Frowner at 8:59 AM on January 25, 2013
I have a pair of flawed Fifth Streets that I got via Ebay - they have a small hole in the leather lining at the ankle, which my shoe guy patched. They are awfully nice.
I also ordered a pair of Randolph loafers in the grey leather that was apparently such a dud this season - perfect fit out of the box, wildly comfortable, leather has a depth and finish that remind me of Berluti a little bit (I mean, not the same quality, but a nice colored leather with an attractive patinated finish with lots of depth). And since I won't be getting any Berlutis any time soon, that will have to do.
What I heard was that AE overbought the grey leather this year, which is why all the grey leather shoes except the Park Avenue went on deep, deep sale. They even ended up selling a Dalton boot in the grey calf, something that was not in the fall catalogue and must have been added to use up the leather, at a deep deep discount via the website. (I have a pair on order and am really excited to get them.)
Also, they've started doing some production in Puerto Rico instead of the mainland US. I don't know how I feel about that - no objection at all to decent jobs in PR, but a little concerned because usually offshoring involves an increase in volume and a drop in quality even if they say it won't.
Also, a sad truth: I have handled AEs from ten years ago, and they are nicer, with better leather and a solider feel. Of course, what one hears among shoe experts is that even the best firms like C&J are not what they were in the sixties or seventies or before - that a seventies C&J is the equal of a contemporary Edward Green and a sixties AE is the equal of a contemporary C&J, at least in terms of quality and finish. People talk about forties Florsheim Imperials in a way that suggests that they were about as good as today's Trickers or Church's.
Anyway! We live in a sad and decayed time, but we must still soldier on in our search for attractive footwear. Glad the Fifth Streets are working out for you.
posted by Frowner at 8:59 AM on January 25, 2013
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posted by supercres at 2:43 PM on December 11, 2012