More red flags than Minesweeper
December 8, 2012 2:44 PM Subscribe
There were a lot of moments in my past relationship that I filed under WTF. Please give me your opinion, what kind of relationship was I in? It was obviously not a healthy one. (Long...)
He was 27-29 during our relationship, I was 2 years older. These are some of the things I remember.
January 2010 - The only time he sincerely said "I love you" first was at the hospital right after he'd had major surgeries and was in a very vulnerable, "not sure if he'll be disabled or lost his looks" state. This was for a bizarre accident 8 months into our relationship that was the result of him binge-drinking (something he still does regularly). I moved in with him to help dress his wounds. In retrospect I should have slowed down and thought if he was truly the right guy for me. But I was totally taken in by his looks, charm, wit, humor, athleticism, and hedonism, enough to do all that I could to impress him.
February 2010 - He surprise-invited his at the time, single female friend L. (not mine, I barely knew her) for my birthday which I thought we were spending alone together. And his plan was to make us go to her house in another part of the city and cook a fancy meal with Asian ingredients he'd bought (I happen to be Asian, they're not). I got upset at this because I thought it turned a day that was meant to be about making me feel special into a day that was more about him and her, with me as some third wheel. This happened in the beginning of our relationship and I forgave it as him being oblivious to what's socially appropriate.
- At parties and public places:
He would mostly ignore me. I wanted to be one of those couples who'd occasionally check up on each other and you know, be sweet to each other. I felt disconnected, like not part of a couple really. By the end, I just expected this so I tried to focus on spending time at parties with other people until we got home.
He'd happily stay out till morning with his friends but when going out with just me (by the time we'd been living together for a while) he'd hail a cab and call an early night after dinner & a movie. This made me feel boring and worthless by comparison.
I knew he spent his workday chatting with L. whenever he could (and whatever other female friends he had), because I used to be the recipient of his chats but was no longer. He said it was because we lived together that he didn't need to chat with me as much. Despite knowing they were just friends, I felt like he was more intrigued with her than with me.
In fact, I regularly felt like he was more intrigued with other women, almost any other woman, than he was with me. Whether at meetups, or at a store, or at a party, he'd put his total focus on other women. It was something I could just feel, though I know I can't prove it. His explanation was always: I was just being friendly, or they looked like they needed some attention. And it was true, he'd often pick the girls who looked out of place or sad in some way and be super gallant toward them, while totally ignoring me. It was almost like he was courting them -- he'd pull out chairs, open doors, order a lot of food, hand them a plate to try first, try to "protect" them, etc. I felt invisible, taken for granted, not at all special. If he'd treated us all the same way, it'd have been different.
The funny thing was he'd pull out the stops for ME at other times around other women, particularly women he definitely wanted to impress, who already knew how serious our relationship was. Then he would grandly hand-feed me or whatnot. I felt totally paranoid to feel like a prop but I did.
- Speaking of props, he would literally treat me like one when we'd all be standing around talking in a group at a bar or something. He was about a foot taller than me and would rest his weight on my shoulder (if you can imagine how a man would stand resting his whole weight on his elbow on a pedestal with his legs crossed at the ankles), I was literally the pedestal on which he leaned. His weight would make me feel uncomfortable so after putting up with this once or twice, I began to just dip out of his way when he'd do this. His expression then would turn from smug satisfaction to irritated chagrin.
- He never asked me questions, or wanted to hear my stories. He loved to talk about himself and our longest, most "connected" conversations were of him rambling about what a bad boy he was in his childhood and about his opinions and exploits.
- He always walked far ahead of me, and would make me run to have to keep up. This was stressful and made me feel like he didn't enjoy my company, that he cared more about catching the train than to connect.
- When meeting me somewhere, I'd usually spot him half a block away walking toward me, and wave hi and smile, and his response to that was to act like he didn't see me, until he *had* to see me. I knew he was pretending because the moment I'd wave he'd get a bit more cocky in his walk and his chin would go up and he wouldn't meet my eyes like he's just too cool or something. It made me feel as if I was embarrassing to him.
- He'd deliberately provoke me, knowing I had some temper issues. For ex. he would drop a pickle jar and shatter it on purpose, knowing I would get mad about having to clean it (since he won't be thorough about cleaning the shards properly).
- He used to cavalierly toss his dirty clothes at my head.
- He'd clap his hands and say an item he'd want me to fetch for him. All jokingly of course. It annoyed me but sometimes I'd comply because I wanted to make him happy.
- Sexually he was essentially done after he'd had his orgasm first. If I wanted an orgasm he'd use his fingers with as little effort as possible. More than a few times he'd shove my head down to his crotch or trap me in a blanket to "hint" that he wanted a blowjob, but I'd always protest because he'd never wash enough down there.
- He'd burp to a frequency that would indicate it was not natural but deliberately meant to provoke. When it got to that point (and with all those other red flags above which is just a short-list), I "knew" I was being disrespected, but NOT BEING TOLD DIRECTLY WHAT HIS PROBLEM WITH ME WAS made me hope this was temporary or just a guy thing.
If I asked him, he'd say nothing. He'd change the subject. Or he'd put it off and say let's talk about it tomorrow (usually I'd forget it by then). Or my favorite, he'd go to bed and fall asleep.
Needless to say, we never communicated well and when he broke up with me, I felt short-changed, like why stay so long and never speak up about any issues with me if he clearly did let it build up enough to break up with me? I felt like he never gave us a real chance. And if he preferred other women or felt I wasn't really the one enough to treat me with respect, why did he not pull the plug earlier?
During my relationship with him I suffered from depression and low self-esteem, and not knowing exactly what I wanted to do with my life. I get that he could have felt like I was not an equal girlfriend he could be proud of. I now know I should have walked away, but I stayed because in between the shitty moments, he liked to share his life's pleasures with me, whether that be fine dining, sex, or adventures. I was like his faithful companion. I stayed for morsels he would throw from his own plate; he enjoyed demonstrating his largesse and even described it as a "privilege" to share his things.
When he broke up with me, he made sure to get a female roommate who was apparently a young struggling student/model and forced me to move out on her schedule. The stranger took priority over a 3-yr (ex)girlfriend with whom he'd shared so many experiences including much overseas travel. He also was sexting another random girl while ostensibly having an in-person conversation with me. He strung me along for sex post-breakup while we were still living together, until I discovered all this and couldn't "love" him anymore or see him the same way.
Now he's busy picking up girls of a specific nationality so he could "practice speaking their language" with them, a language he believes is of practical value to him. I feel he's using their naivety to his advantage just as he did with me especially at the end. That's the end of what I know about him and I don't follow any news about him.
I'm not proud of how I reacted to his provocations sometimes. It triggered abusive reactions on my part, whether physical or verbal. He made everything into a joke, while I tend to take things seriously, so it seemed like I was just crazy, insecure and jealous and overreacted a lot. When I got frustrated enough to lash out unhealthily, I should have just walked away or focused on myself.
I guess I wonder... what did I put up with and why did I think things would change (mainly if I changed to whatever his ideal woman was)? Was he only like this because we were not compatible and he was too cowardly to end it sooner than later? Is his perfect partner going to have all his good things (which were so amazing) and none of the bad?
I'm nearly over this relationship, but this is pretty much the only thing I'm still thinking about with regard to him. Not that it changes anything about us.
Thank you for reading my uber-long sort-of disjointed story. I hope I can put it to rest soon.
He was 27-29 during our relationship, I was 2 years older. These are some of the things I remember.
January 2010 - The only time he sincerely said "I love you" first was at the hospital right after he'd had major surgeries and was in a very vulnerable, "not sure if he'll be disabled or lost his looks" state. This was for a bizarre accident 8 months into our relationship that was the result of him binge-drinking (something he still does regularly). I moved in with him to help dress his wounds. In retrospect I should have slowed down and thought if he was truly the right guy for me. But I was totally taken in by his looks, charm, wit, humor, athleticism, and hedonism, enough to do all that I could to impress him.
February 2010 - He surprise-invited his at the time, single female friend L. (not mine, I barely knew her) for my birthday which I thought we were spending alone together. And his plan was to make us go to her house in another part of the city and cook a fancy meal with Asian ingredients he'd bought (I happen to be Asian, they're not). I got upset at this because I thought it turned a day that was meant to be about making me feel special into a day that was more about him and her, with me as some third wheel. This happened in the beginning of our relationship and I forgave it as him being oblivious to what's socially appropriate.
- At parties and public places:
He would mostly ignore me. I wanted to be one of those couples who'd occasionally check up on each other and you know, be sweet to each other. I felt disconnected, like not part of a couple really. By the end, I just expected this so I tried to focus on spending time at parties with other people until we got home.
He'd happily stay out till morning with his friends but when going out with just me (by the time we'd been living together for a while) he'd hail a cab and call an early night after dinner & a movie. This made me feel boring and worthless by comparison.
I knew he spent his workday chatting with L. whenever he could (and whatever other female friends he had), because I used to be the recipient of his chats but was no longer. He said it was because we lived together that he didn't need to chat with me as much. Despite knowing they were just friends, I felt like he was more intrigued with her than with me.
In fact, I regularly felt like he was more intrigued with other women, almost any other woman, than he was with me. Whether at meetups, or at a store, or at a party, he'd put his total focus on other women. It was something I could just feel, though I know I can't prove it. His explanation was always: I was just being friendly, or they looked like they needed some attention. And it was true, he'd often pick the girls who looked out of place or sad in some way and be super gallant toward them, while totally ignoring me. It was almost like he was courting them -- he'd pull out chairs, open doors, order a lot of food, hand them a plate to try first, try to "protect" them, etc. I felt invisible, taken for granted, not at all special. If he'd treated us all the same way, it'd have been different.
The funny thing was he'd pull out the stops for ME at other times around other women, particularly women he definitely wanted to impress, who already knew how serious our relationship was. Then he would grandly hand-feed me or whatnot. I felt totally paranoid to feel like a prop but I did.
- Speaking of props, he would literally treat me like one when we'd all be standing around talking in a group at a bar or something. He was about a foot taller than me and would rest his weight on my shoulder (if you can imagine how a man would stand resting his whole weight on his elbow on a pedestal with his legs crossed at the ankles), I was literally the pedestal on which he leaned. His weight would make me feel uncomfortable so after putting up with this once or twice, I began to just dip out of his way when he'd do this. His expression then would turn from smug satisfaction to irritated chagrin.
- He never asked me questions, or wanted to hear my stories. He loved to talk about himself and our longest, most "connected" conversations were of him rambling about what a bad boy he was in his childhood and about his opinions and exploits.
- He always walked far ahead of me, and would make me run to have to keep up. This was stressful and made me feel like he didn't enjoy my company, that he cared more about catching the train than to connect.
- When meeting me somewhere, I'd usually spot him half a block away walking toward me, and wave hi and smile, and his response to that was to act like he didn't see me, until he *had* to see me. I knew he was pretending because the moment I'd wave he'd get a bit more cocky in his walk and his chin would go up and he wouldn't meet my eyes like he's just too cool or something. It made me feel as if I was embarrassing to him.
- He'd deliberately provoke me, knowing I had some temper issues. For ex. he would drop a pickle jar and shatter it on purpose, knowing I would get mad about having to clean it (since he won't be thorough about cleaning the shards properly).
- He used to cavalierly toss his dirty clothes at my head.
- He'd clap his hands and say an item he'd want me to fetch for him. All jokingly of course. It annoyed me but sometimes I'd comply because I wanted to make him happy.
- Sexually he was essentially done after he'd had his orgasm first. If I wanted an orgasm he'd use his fingers with as little effort as possible. More than a few times he'd shove my head down to his crotch or trap me in a blanket to "hint" that he wanted a blowjob, but I'd always protest because he'd never wash enough down there.
- He'd burp to a frequency that would indicate it was not natural but deliberately meant to provoke. When it got to that point (and with all those other red flags above which is just a short-list), I "knew" I was being disrespected, but NOT BEING TOLD DIRECTLY WHAT HIS PROBLEM WITH ME WAS made me hope this was temporary or just a guy thing.
If I asked him, he'd say nothing. He'd change the subject. Or he'd put it off and say let's talk about it tomorrow (usually I'd forget it by then). Or my favorite, he'd go to bed and fall asleep.
Needless to say, we never communicated well and when he broke up with me, I felt short-changed, like why stay so long and never speak up about any issues with me if he clearly did let it build up enough to break up with me? I felt like he never gave us a real chance. And if he preferred other women or felt I wasn't really the one enough to treat me with respect, why did he not pull the plug earlier?
During my relationship with him I suffered from depression and low self-esteem, and not knowing exactly what I wanted to do with my life. I get that he could have felt like I was not an equal girlfriend he could be proud of. I now know I should have walked away, but I stayed because in between the shitty moments, he liked to share his life's pleasures with me, whether that be fine dining, sex, or adventures. I was like his faithful companion. I stayed for morsels he would throw from his own plate; he enjoyed demonstrating his largesse and even described it as a "privilege" to share his things.
When he broke up with me, he made sure to get a female roommate who was apparently a young struggling student/model and forced me to move out on her schedule. The stranger took priority over a 3-yr (ex)girlfriend with whom he'd shared so many experiences including much overseas travel. He also was sexting another random girl while ostensibly having an in-person conversation with me. He strung me along for sex post-breakup while we were still living together, until I discovered all this and couldn't "love" him anymore or see him the same way.
Now he's busy picking up girls of a specific nationality so he could "practice speaking their language" with them, a language he believes is of practical value to him. I feel he's using their naivety to his advantage just as he did with me especially at the end. That's the end of what I know about him and I don't follow any news about him.
I'm not proud of how I reacted to his provocations sometimes. It triggered abusive reactions on my part, whether physical or verbal. He made everything into a joke, while I tend to take things seriously, so it seemed like I was just crazy, insecure and jealous and overreacted a lot. When I got frustrated enough to lash out unhealthily, I should have just walked away or focused on myself.
I guess I wonder... what did I put up with and why did I think things would change (mainly if I changed to whatever his ideal woman was)? Was he only like this because we were not compatible and he was too cowardly to end it sooner than later? Is his perfect partner going to have all his good things (which were so amazing) and none of the bad?
I'm nearly over this relationship, but this is pretty much the only thing I'm still thinking about with regard to him. Not that it changes anything about us.
Thank you for reading my uber-long sort-of disjointed story. I hope I can put it to rest soon.
You were dating a pig. Seriously, it's not worth all that analysis. Just wash off all that mud and find someone of your own species.
posted by orange swan at 2:49 PM on December 8, 2012 [37 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 2:49 PM on December 8, 2012 [37 favorites]
Was he only like this because we were not compatible and he was too cowardly to end it sooner than later?
It sounds to me like he was and is like this because he's an asshole. Sorry, I know you cared for him - and frankly, it sounds like you're spending an unhealthy and unhelpful amount of time and energy keeping track of what he's doing now - but you are well to be done with him. I've been in relationships where we weren't terribly compatible, but mostly neither of us was an asshole about it.
I guess I wonder... what did I put up with and why did I think things would change (mainly if I changed to whatever his ideal woman was)?
Sounds like an excellent question to address in therapy. I mean, someone here might come along and hit the nail on the head, but I've had more than one "Ah ha!!" revelation that I later failed to apply or even remember in any constructive way. There's rarely going to be a simple "A therefore B, so stop doing A" when it comes to interpersonal relationships. If there were, there'd be a lot fewer therapists and psychs and whathaveyou.
posted by rtha at 2:51 PM on December 8, 2012 [5 favorites]
It sounds to me like he was and is like this because he's an asshole. Sorry, I know you cared for him - and frankly, it sounds like you're spending an unhealthy and unhelpful amount of time and energy keeping track of what he's doing now - but you are well to be done with him. I've been in relationships where we weren't terribly compatible, but mostly neither of us was an asshole about it.
I guess I wonder... what did I put up with and why did I think things would change (mainly if I changed to whatever his ideal woman was)?
Sounds like an excellent question to address in therapy. I mean, someone here might come along and hit the nail on the head, but I've had more than one "Ah ha!!" revelation that I later failed to apply or even remember in any constructive way. There's rarely going to be a simple "A therefore B, so stop doing A" when it comes to interpersonal relationships. If there were, there'd be a lot fewer therapists and psychs and whathaveyou.
posted by rtha at 2:51 PM on December 8, 2012 [5 favorites]
What did you put up with? A lot of shit. A terrible, abusive person.
Why? Because you had depression and low self-esteem.
posted by bleep at 2:54 PM on December 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
Why? Because you had depression and low self-esteem.
posted by bleep at 2:54 PM on December 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
Best answer: I guess I wonder... what did I put up with and why did I think things would change (mainly if I changed to whatever his ideal woman was)?
You said yourself that you were dealing with self-esteem issues, and it's not at all uncommon for someone with low self-esteem to try to get approval from other people to replace it. Unfortunately, this dude was so colossally self-centered that he wasn't seeing you as an actual person at all, just an adjunct to his ego, so trying to make him give you approval was an utterly impossible task.
How do you avoid this in the future? Keep firmly in mind that your own opinions, needs, and priorities are just as important as those of your partner, and if they don't agree - in either direction - then the relationship is unequal and probably not healthy, and it's time to work on either fixing the imbalance or getting out of the relationship.
posted by restless_nomad at 2:56 PM on December 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
You said yourself that you were dealing with self-esteem issues, and it's not at all uncommon for someone with low self-esteem to try to get approval from other people to replace it. Unfortunately, this dude was so colossally self-centered that he wasn't seeing you as an actual person at all, just an adjunct to his ego, so trying to make him give you approval was an utterly impossible task.
How do you avoid this in the future? Keep firmly in mind that your own opinions, needs, and priorities are just as important as those of your partner, and if they don't agree - in either direction - then the relationship is unequal and probably not healthy, and it's time to work on either fixing the imbalance or getting out of the relationship.
posted by restless_nomad at 2:56 PM on December 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
He's a narcissist. Classic case. Google Sam Vaknin and do some reading. You'll see that none of this was your fault and it will not change when he changes partners.
posted by 3491again at 2:57 PM on December 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by 3491again at 2:57 PM on December 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
Is his perfect partner going to have all his good things (which were so amazing) and none of the bad?
A "perfect partner" is not going to change him into a considerate, unselfish person. I think it's safe to assume that anyone who gets involved with him will likely be mistreated. I don't think you should waste your time worrying about it. You could instead focus on yourself and how fortunate you are to be rid of him.
posted by orme at 3:00 PM on December 8, 2012 [7 favorites]
A "perfect partner" is not going to change him into a considerate, unselfish person. I think it's safe to assume that anyone who gets involved with him will likely be mistreated. I don't think you should waste your time worrying about it. You could instead focus on yourself and how fortunate you are to be rid of him.
posted by orme at 3:00 PM on December 8, 2012 [7 favorites]
One word : narcissist. One question : that bad a narcissist ?
posted by Baud at 3:01 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Baud at 3:01 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
He sounds like a craphead. Consider this askme one of those cathartic letters-you-write-and-never send and forget this 'bad boy' dweeb.
posted by Katine at 3:03 PM on December 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Katine at 3:03 PM on December 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
He is an absolute, total butt-nugget. It's not your fault, or your responsibility, nor did the roots of his behavior have anything to do with you personally.
Just earlier today, I was thinking about my world-class butt-nugget ex-boyfriend, and how I used to be so grateful he deigned to date me, and I was laughing ruefully, because it was years ago and I can laugh now.
Any time you start to feel some sort of culpability for this butt-nugget's behavior, just roll your eyes and think, "Christ, what an asshole!" and then go on being your fabulous, wonderful self.
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:04 PM on December 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
Just earlier today, I was thinking about my world-class butt-nugget ex-boyfriend, and how I used to be so grateful he deigned to date me, and I was laughing ruefully, because it was years ago and I can laugh now.
Any time you start to feel some sort of culpability for this butt-nugget's behavior, just roll your eyes and think, "Christ, what an asshole!" and then go on being your fabulous, wonderful self.
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:04 PM on December 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
One more thing : I'd consider explore my self-image in therapy to (try to) discover what in you attracted him.
posted by Baud at 3:05 PM on December 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Baud at 3:05 PM on December 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
It sounds like this person is.... your ex. Seriously, he doesn't sound abusive, just annoying in the way that pretty much everyone's ex sounds annoying when they do the post-breakup Inventory Of Faults. I think it is a good thing you are no longer in this relationship, but I really don't see that labelling him as a narcissist or a psychopath or a lizard person or whatever is going to accomplish anything now that you have broken up with him. And you'll probably be a happier person if you let the anger you're currently feeling drift over you until you reach a point where it's just another thing that happened in your life, which had good points and bad points and which you are glad is over.
posted by Acheman at 3:05 PM on December 8, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Acheman at 3:05 PM on December 8, 2012 [5 favorites]
It sounds like you've answered your own question - low self-esteem. From what you described about him targeting lonely-looking women in stores he probably picked up on your self-esteem problems and knew he could get away with the things he was doing. Just see it as a lesson learned - work on your self esteem problems so that in the next relationship you can stand up for yourself and walk away if the person doesn't comply.
Have your past boyfriends behaved similarly? Did you feel like you didn't deserve better or you wouldn't find anyone else who would treat you better? I know when I stayed too long with assholes it was for those reasons.
You sound very self-aware and that's a good thing. If you find this happening in another relationship re-read your AskMe to give you the strength to leave. =)
posted by Autumn at 3:06 PM on December 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Have your past boyfriends behaved similarly? Did you feel like you didn't deserve better or you wouldn't find anyone else who would treat you better? I know when I stayed too long with assholes it was for those reasons.
You sound very self-aware and that's a good thing. If you find this happening in another relationship re-read your AskMe to give you the strength to leave. =)
posted by Autumn at 3:06 PM on December 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Best answer: He sounds like an ass, but you already know he treated you badly. The kind of relationship you were in was that of a person who needs to learn how to value herself with a person who recognizes when he can get away with treating someone like garbage.
Are you in treatment for your depression and self-esteem? Because that would be a much more worthwhile use of your time than trying to understand this douchebag.
posted by Meg_Murry at 3:06 PM on December 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Are you in treatment for your depression and self-esteem? Because that would be a much more worthwhile use of your time than trying to understand this douchebag.
posted by Meg_Murry at 3:06 PM on December 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Guys like that exist to make you recognize just how happy you are and how awesome your parter is when you find the right person. The best revenge after a breakup is to be awesome, be happy and have an even better time without the jerk!
Good luck, YOU CAN DO IT!
posted by dottiechang at 3:09 PM on December 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
Good luck, YOU CAN DO IT!
posted by dottiechang at 3:09 PM on December 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
Honestly, he sounds like a douchebag.
People stay in relationships like this because they may fear leaving for whatever reasons, assume that they will not find anyone else after this one relationship ends, and/or feel like they've invested too much time, energy, and resources into the relationship to leave.
Consider yourself much better off without this relationship in your life.
posted by livinglearning at 3:16 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
People stay in relationships like this because they may fear leaving for whatever reasons, assume that they will not find anyone else after this one relationship ends, and/or feel like they've invested too much time, energy, and resources into the relationship to leave.
Consider yourself much better off without this relationship in your life.
posted by livinglearning at 3:16 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Wow, forget all of that as soon as possible. It was nothing to do with you, and everything to do with what a horrible person you had on your hands.
Basically, my read is that he never valued you for who you are, only for what you did for him--he used you. There was probably a moment early on where it stroked his ego to 'get' you as a girlfriend, but at every point thereafter, he would have liked to get that ego stroke from someone else. The problem is you were giving him too much other stuff for him to let you go. So what he did instead was please himself with his ability to manipulate you and get away with behavior he could not have gotten away with otherwise. 'Negging' you constantly and having a sort of hidden contempt for you achieved two things: reinforcing his sense of superiority and eroding your self-esteem such that you'd keep trying to please him. You describe so much emotional abuse here I just can't stand to think about it further.
You didn't really do anything wrong here except for one thing: you need to trust that you're worth more than this. A good partner will enjoy making you feel you're important.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 3:20 PM on December 8, 2012 [12 favorites]
Basically, my read is that he never valued you for who you are, only for what you did for him--he used you. There was probably a moment early on where it stroked his ego to 'get' you as a girlfriend, but at every point thereafter, he would have liked to get that ego stroke from someone else. The problem is you were giving him too much other stuff for him to let you go. So what he did instead was please himself with his ability to manipulate you and get away with behavior he could not have gotten away with otherwise. 'Negging' you constantly and having a sort of hidden contempt for you achieved two things: reinforcing his sense of superiority and eroding your self-esteem such that you'd keep trying to please him. You describe so much emotional abuse here I just can't stand to think about it further.
You didn't really do anything wrong here except for one thing: you need to trust that you're worth more than this. A good partner will enjoy making you feel you're important.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 3:20 PM on December 8, 2012 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Is this your first experience with an asshole boyfriend?
It's okay - lots of awesome women have one in their pasts. It can be kind of embarrassing to think back on how you wasted so much time on such a jerk, but you know what? Plenty of people can say the same.
Fun fact - now that you know what an asshole boyfriend looks like, it makes it 76% easier to spot, and thus avoid, one in the future. This means - you win! Go out with some of your friends, get some cocktails, check out a museum or show or something, and in 10 years, when you're making dinner with some guy who is totally the mayor of awesometown, you can chuckle to yourself about how ridiculously, and obviously bad, this bad relationship was, and can kind of reflect on it with a distance that makes it seem more like some lame b-movie you saw long ago, and can kind of only remember, because you watched it a while back, and it was pretty absurd, anyway, so who cares.
Oh, and feel free to check out therapy. This is one of those opportunities for self-growth, so you, yourself, can also become the mayor of awesometown. Another win! Go!
posted by vivid postcard at 3:21 PM on December 8, 2012 [7 favorites]
It's okay - lots of awesome women have one in their pasts. It can be kind of embarrassing to think back on how you wasted so much time on such a jerk, but you know what? Plenty of people can say the same.
Fun fact - now that you know what an asshole boyfriend looks like, it makes it 76% easier to spot, and thus avoid, one in the future. This means - you win! Go out with some of your friends, get some cocktails, check out a museum or show or something, and in 10 years, when you're making dinner with some guy who is totally the mayor of awesometown, you can chuckle to yourself about how ridiculously, and obviously bad, this bad relationship was, and can kind of reflect on it with a distance that makes it seem more like some lame b-movie you saw long ago, and can kind of only remember, because you watched it a while back, and it was pretty absurd, anyway, so who cares.
Oh, and feel free to check out therapy. This is one of those opportunities for self-growth, so you, yourself, can also become the mayor of awesometown. Another win! Go!
posted by vivid postcard at 3:21 PM on December 8, 2012 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: I'm not in therapy. I don't think my company's insurance policy allows for it (they allow physical therapy and it's a limited amount), but I should ask again.
I suspect he's a narcissist or even maybe someone with sociopathic tendencies. Getting people's similar responses here make me feel better, like he wasn't this awesome guy (his image) who just became bad because of me, but diagnosing him in my head only goes so far. Mostly, and I'm getting there, I just want to let go and not care. And even wish him happiness (whoa, that's hard to imagine right now).
I'm also very much goal-oriented these days and saving money, and putting all my focus into my career and passions which I mostly ignored just to be in that relationship (hence depression). Doing a man-fast for at least a year. And honestly, I don't want to even be in a relationship until I have a real eye for knowing what kind of guy IS best for me. Obviously my old criteria was skewed. Not sure who the right guy is but I'll probably only know once I'm busy doing what I love and he just fits in easily.
posted by Sa Dec at 3:25 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
I suspect he's a narcissist or even maybe someone with sociopathic tendencies. Getting people's similar responses here make me feel better, like he wasn't this awesome guy (his image) who just became bad because of me, but diagnosing him in my head only goes so far. Mostly, and I'm getting there, I just want to let go and not care. And even wish him happiness (whoa, that's hard to imagine right now).
I'm also very much goal-oriented these days and saving money, and putting all my focus into my career and passions which I mostly ignored just to be in that relationship (hence depression). Doing a man-fast for at least a year. And honestly, I don't want to even be in a relationship until I have a real eye for knowing what kind of guy IS best for me. Obviously my old criteria was skewed. Not sure who the right guy is but I'll probably only know once I'm busy doing what I love and he just fits in easily.
posted by Sa Dec at 3:25 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think you were so horrified about the abuse you went through that you probably worried it was you and, like victims of abuse, wanted to make it "right" so you didn't feel like you caused it or that it was happening to you.
You probably copulent believe that someone could treat you like that so you worked at making it okay or like your own fault.
He was a horrible dick.
posted by discopolo at 3:27 PM on December 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
You probably copulent believe that someone could treat you like that so you worked at making it okay or like your own fault.
He was a horrible dick.
posted by discopolo at 3:27 PM on December 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
He doesn't sound like a sociopath or a narcissist from a clinical definition. He just sounds like a garden-variety jerk. I would not spend any more time attempting to diagnose him or wondering what he's doing or anything.
posted by Anonymous at 3:28 PM on December 8, 2012
posted by Anonymous at 3:28 PM on December 8, 2012
Getting people's similar responses here make me feel better, like he wasn't this awesome guy (his image) who just became bad because of me, but diagnosing him in my head only goes so far
I don't think you need to diagnose him with anything to know he was a gigantic asshole with some seriously abusive tendencies. And someone else being an abusive asshole is not in any way your fault, nor anything you could fix.
posted by Papagayo at 3:29 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't think you need to diagnose him with anything to know he was a gigantic asshole with some seriously abusive tendencies. And someone else being an abusive asshole is not in any way your fault, nor anything you could fix.
posted by Papagayo at 3:29 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
It sounds to me like you're on the right track, but during your man-fast, I think you really do need to look at why you think/thought your boyfriend's asshole-ish behaviours were somehow your responsibility.
like he wasn't this awesome guy (his image) who just became bad because of me,
It's not up to you to 'make' your partners good or bad - if they're not doing that on their own, then they are likely not a person you want to be with.
posted by scrute at 3:29 PM on December 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
like he wasn't this awesome guy (his image) who just became bad because of me,
It's not up to you to 'make' your partners good or bad - if they're not doing that on their own, then they are likely not a person you want to be with.
posted by scrute at 3:29 PM on December 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you...
Hm... I had a delusional cheater as my first bf and my second was decent, but incompatible culturally. They were not all assholes, but not great choices either. This one is my third and I thought he was more than I deserved because he was so smart, attractive, funny, smooth, charming, logical, adventurous, carefree.... things I thought I wanted to be more of.
posted by Sa Dec at 3:33 PM on December 8, 2012
Hm... I had a delusional cheater as my first bf and my second was decent, but incompatible culturally. They were not all assholes, but not great choices either. This one is my third and I thought he was more than I deserved because he was so smart, attractive, funny, smooth, charming, logical, adventurous, carefree.... things I thought I wanted to be more of.
posted by Sa Dec at 3:33 PM on December 8, 2012
Response by poster: The stuff I listed are really small things, like the whole death by a thousand paper cuts idea. It's because they seem so minor individually that I put up with so much of it, maybe. I know it was a lot to read but perhaps other people will see it doesn't have to be physical to be abuse (he never laid a violent hand on me) nor does he need to steal your money or something very dramatic. It can even just seem like a big joke at times and it's your problem if you take it too seriously.
posted by Sa Dec at 3:40 PM on December 8, 2012
posted by Sa Dec at 3:40 PM on December 8, 2012
Google "sliding scale therapy" and similar for your city or town. I know things are different now, but I had several therapists over the years who helped me a lot even though I was broke-ass and had shitty or no insurance.
Another place you might look is at AlAnon or Adult Child of Alcoholics groups, because both focus on codependent behavior and patterns. Meetings can vary wildly, so if you go to one and hate it, it really might just be that particular meeting. I went to several (different times and places) before I found a couple that clicked for me.
posted by rtha at 3:47 PM on December 8, 2012
Another place you might look is at AlAnon or Adult Child of Alcoholics groups, because both focus on codependent behavior and patterns. Meetings can vary wildly, so if you go to one and hate it, it really might just be that particular meeting. I went to several (different times and places) before I found a couple that clicked for me.
posted by rtha at 3:47 PM on December 8, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks, I'll check that out.
Last question: can you guys ever see me being friends with him again? After a bad breakup like this... is it possible? I don't mean to imply that I want to rekindle a relationship with him again, because I know there's a better person out there for me than him, but I did really value the positive things he had. I know it's hard to find someone as witty as he is (to me), for one. But at the same time, man... it's probably not worth it.
posted by Sa Dec at 3:53 PM on December 8, 2012
Last question: can you guys ever see me being friends with him again? After a bad breakup like this... is it possible? I don't mean to imply that I want to rekindle a relationship with him again, because I know there's a better person out there for me than him, but I did really value the positive things he had. I know it's hard to find someone as witty as he is (to me), for one. But at the same time, man... it's probably not worth it.
posted by Sa Dec at 3:53 PM on December 8, 2012
I'm no going to touch the majority of what you've said about this dude because Christ on a fucking cracker, what a dick but this bit stood out to me:
"More than a few times he'd shove my head down to his crotch..."
What in the actual fuck, a man has actually done this?! I thought this was used only in movies to denote to viewers that clearly a character was an asshole without having to waste time on dialogue. Sincerely, that's never happened to me and I might be overreacting but if a male did that to me, I'd dump him. If he was serious (he couldn't have been serious, he was just joking, HE COULDN'T HAVE BEEN SERIOUS, RIGHT?!), I'd leave. Right then.
I'm not normally over-sensitive to this sort of suggestive sexual thing as I am the Queen of Inappropriate Humor At All Times but good lord, that would have incited some kind of rage inside my brain that would have made me want to physically the person that initiated such a thing.
On that one tidbit alone I'm willing to label this guy a special kind of douche. It's rude, it's dismissive, and it's just all around fucked up to do to someone you claim to care about enough to live with.
You put up with a giant dick, that's what you put up with. And you got out! Yes! Be thankful for that and trust that closure will come with time.
posted by youandiandaflame at 3:56 PM on December 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
"More than a few times he'd shove my head down to his crotch..."
What in the actual fuck, a man has actually done this?! I thought this was used only in movies to denote to viewers that clearly a character was an asshole without having to waste time on dialogue. Sincerely, that's never happened to me and I might be overreacting but if a male did that to me, I'd dump him. If he was serious (he couldn't have been serious, he was just joking, HE COULDN'T HAVE BEEN SERIOUS, RIGHT?!), I'd leave. Right then.
I'm not normally over-sensitive to this sort of suggestive sexual thing as I am the Queen of Inappropriate Humor At All Times but good lord, that would have incited some kind of rage inside my brain that would have made me want to physically the person that initiated such a thing.
On that one tidbit alone I'm willing to label this guy a special kind of douche. It's rude, it's dismissive, and it's just all around fucked up to do to someone you claim to care about enough to live with.
You put up with a giant dick, that's what you put up with. And you got out! Yes! Be thankful for that and trust that closure will come with time.
posted by youandiandaflame at 3:56 PM on December 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
Also, honey (on preview, that "honey" sounds dismissive and I don't mean it that way, I mean it as in "Oh honey, I feel you!", fwiw). Do not be friends with this man. People can be friends for lots of reasons after they split but I don't see any reason to continue a relationship in any way, shape, or form with this fellow.
Look, I dated a few giant jerks. And I'm not friends with them now. I share a pretty consistent circle of friends with two of them but the thing is, they were assholes. I'd probably have cut them off as friends because they were not kind people but as it turns out, relationships seem harder to end than that and as such, I stayed with men that didn't even meet the qualifications I keep for my acquaintances. It's screwed up yes, but there it is.
What I'm saying is there is no reason to pursue a friendship with this guy. I'm sure he has a few decent qualities but from the sound of it, he learned very little from your relationship and he was unkind and downright dickish to you. You deserve better in partners AND friends.
posted by youandiandaflame at 4:01 PM on December 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
Look, I dated a few giant jerks. And I'm not friends with them now. I share a pretty consistent circle of friends with two of them but the thing is, they were assholes. I'd probably have cut them off as friends because they were not kind people but as it turns out, relationships seem harder to end than that and as such, I stayed with men that didn't even meet the qualifications I keep for my acquaintances. It's screwed up yes, but there it is.
What I'm saying is there is no reason to pursue a friendship with this guy. I'm sure he has a few decent qualities but from the sound of it, he learned very little from your relationship and he was unkind and downright dickish to you. You deserve better in partners AND friends.
posted by youandiandaflame at 4:01 PM on December 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
can you guys ever see me being friends with him again?
You couldn't pay me to be friends with him, and I don't think you should either. I don't think he should be wearing a scarlet "D" on his chest, but let him learn that he has burned a few bridges with this shit, and maybe he'll treat others better in the future.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 4:01 PM on December 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
You couldn't pay me to be friends with him, and I don't think you should either. I don't think he should be wearing a scarlet "D" on his chest, but let him learn that he has burned a few bridges with this shit, and maybe he'll treat others better in the future.
posted by Monsieur Caution at 4:01 PM on December 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
Best answer: And even wish him happiness (whoa, that's hard to imagine right now).
Don't bother with this, and be very careful about framing this in any other way than that you dated someone who was an asshole. it wasn't your fault, you didn't do anything wrong, and some other woman with different whatever isn't going to make him a not-asshole. It had nothing to do with you.
Lots of us have dated terrible people. Some of us catapulted right ahead and married them.
Don't waste your time wondering about him or beating yourself up about it. Focus on figuring out the steps you need to take in order to feel that you deserve good things from other people and from the world.
Don't waste your time thinking about how you're going to feel him five years from now or five minutes from now. Decide how to approach the project of feeling better about yourself in all areas of your life.
It wasn't your fault that he was an asshole.
It's because they seem so minor individually that I put up with so much of it, maybe.
Sometimes it's surprisingly hard to admit how hard something sucks.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:02 PM on December 8, 2012 [7 favorites]
Don't bother with this, and be very careful about framing this in any other way than that you dated someone who was an asshole. it wasn't your fault, you didn't do anything wrong, and some other woman with different whatever isn't going to make him a not-asshole. It had nothing to do with you.
Lots of us have dated terrible people. Some of us catapulted right ahead and married them.
Don't waste your time wondering about him or beating yourself up about it. Focus on figuring out the steps you need to take in order to feel that you deserve good things from other people and from the world.
Don't waste your time thinking about how you're going to feel him five years from now or five minutes from now. Decide how to approach the project of feeling better about yourself in all areas of your life.
It wasn't your fault that he was an asshole.
It's because they seem so minor individually that I put up with so much of it, maybe.
Sometimes it's surprisingly hard to admit how hard something sucks.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:02 PM on December 8, 2012 [7 favorites]
Best answer: This might seem counter-intuitive, but beware of anyone who seems like the perfect human being from the get-go: he was so smart, attractive, funny, smooth, charming, logical, adventurous, carefree
No one is all of those things all of the time, but certain people are good at acting like all of those things sometimes - just long enough to rope someone in. Once he had you, he stopped trying, knowing you'd be too insecure to leave him. This is probably a pattern that he'll keep going unless he has some sort of epiphany and realizes he's a horrible person. Unlikely.
Sometimes it can be hard to know when you're in a bad relationship because your emotions cloud your judgement. You think of when things were good and think there must be a chance they can be good again, if you just do the right thing. A good barometer for whether a relationship is healthy or not is to evaluate how it makes you act and how it makes you feel, separate from how your partner acts and treats you. It shouldn't feel like an emotional roller coaster. Like you said:
I'm not proud of how I reacted to his provocations sometimes. It triggered abusive reactions on my part, whether physical or verbal. He made everything into a joke, while I tend to take things seriously, so it seemed like I was just crazy, insecure and jealous and overreacted a lot.
That's how you know it's time to leave. You cannot have a healthy relationship with someone who provokes that kind of response in you. If it makes you feel better, you don't have to think of that person as an asshole; you could frame it more as the two of you not being a good match, like magnets that repel each other, but you didn't know it until you got too close.
And I just read your last update. Do not, by any means, allow this man to be your friend. Cut him out of your life. He will keep manipulating you as long as you are around. There are witty people out there who don't take pleasure in making those who care about them feel like garbage.
posted by wondermouse at 4:02 PM on December 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
No one is all of those things all of the time, but certain people are good at acting like all of those things sometimes - just long enough to rope someone in. Once he had you, he stopped trying, knowing you'd be too insecure to leave him. This is probably a pattern that he'll keep going unless he has some sort of epiphany and realizes he's a horrible person. Unlikely.
Sometimes it can be hard to know when you're in a bad relationship because your emotions cloud your judgement. You think of when things were good and think there must be a chance they can be good again, if you just do the right thing. A good barometer for whether a relationship is healthy or not is to evaluate how it makes you act and how it makes you feel, separate from how your partner acts and treats you. It shouldn't feel like an emotional roller coaster. Like you said:
I'm not proud of how I reacted to his provocations sometimes. It triggered abusive reactions on my part, whether physical or verbal. He made everything into a joke, while I tend to take things seriously, so it seemed like I was just crazy, insecure and jealous and overreacted a lot.
That's how you know it's time to leave. You cannot have a healthy relationship with someone who provokes that kind of response in you. If it makes you feel better, you don't have to think of that person as an asshole; you could frame it more as the two of you not being a good match, like magnets that repel each other, but you didn't know it until you got too close.
And I just read your last update. Do not, by any means, allow this man to be your friend. Cut him out of your life. He will keep manipulating you as long as you are around. There are witty people out there who don't take pleasure in making those who care about them feel like garbage.
posted by wondermouse at 4:02 PM on December 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
What the Christ? This man isn't a good candidate to be anybody's friend, let alone an ex whom he treated like a doormat. Set phaser to "shun".
And read Facing Codependence by Mellody, Miller, and Miller as your travel guide out of Doormat City. "Happy birthday! Now cook the foods of your heritage for my friend!" should have been enough asshole detector for anyone, but yours wasn't working. I have been there myself. Facing Codependence can be a great boundary recalibrator.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:06 PM on December 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
And read Facing Codependence by Mellody, Miller, and Miller as your travel guide out of Doormat City. "Happy birthday! Now cook the foods of your heritage for my friend!" should have been enough asshole detector for anyone, but yours wasn't working. I have been there myself. Facing Codependence can be a great boundary recalibrator.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:06 PM on December 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
Oh, and this:
The stuff I listed are really small things, like the whole death by a thousand paper cuts idea.
A lot of the things you listed that he did to you struck me as awful awful things. I mean... breaking glass jars on purpose just so you have to clean them up? That is frightening. A relationship should not feel like repeated paper cuts. It does not indicate a lack of backbone or overly thin skin on your part that you felt bad when your boyfriend treated you badly.
posted by wondermouse at 4:14 PM on December 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
The stuff I listed are really small things, like the whole death by a thousand paper cuts idea.
A lot of the things you listed that he did to you struck me as awful awful things. I mean... breaking glass jars on purpose just so you have to clean them up? That is frightening. A relationship should not feel like repeated paper cuts. It does not indicate a lack of backbone or overly thin skin on your part that you felt bad when your boyfriend treated you badly.
posted by wondermouse at 4:14 PM on December 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Well, you guys have definitely put to rest the small idea that we might someday be friends. Thank you. Your caring and wisdom is like having the older brother/sister I never had. :')
My background: mother (was) a doormat and father (was) abusive.
Sidhedevil: thanks for making me laugh -- you couldn't have put it more perfectly.
posted by Sa Dec at 4:27 PM on December 8, 2012
My background: mother (was) a doormat and father (was) abusive.
Sidhedevil: thanks for making me laugh -- you couldn't have put it more perfectly.
posted by Sa Dec at 4:27 PM on December 8, 2012
Best answer: can you guys ever see me being friends with him again?
I am not being flippant: if you want to be friends with him--with someone who thinks it's ok to treat another human being the way he treated you--then this is something you really need to discuss with a therapist. Call your insurance company and ask about behavioral/mental health coverage. If they offer no coverage, look into sliding scale treatment.
I'm quite serious. You deserve to be in a mental and emotional place where the thought of being friends with him triggers alarm bells, not hope. You don't need to wish him harm, but you deserve to learn how to value yourself enough not to let him back into your life.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:27 PM on December 8, 2012 [13 favorites]
I am not being flippant: if you want to be friends with him--with someone who thinks it's ok to treat another human being the way he treated you--then this is something you really need to discuss with a therapist. Call your insurance company and ask about behavioral/mental health coverage. If they offer no coverage, look into sliding scale treatment.
I'm quite serious. You deserve to be in a mental and emotional place where the thought of being friends with him triggers alarm bells, not hope. You don't need to wish him harm, but you deserve to learn how to value yourself enough not to let him back into your life.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:27 PM on December 8, 2012 [13 favorites]
As others have mentioned, this guy does not deserve the gift of your friendship.
posted by corb at 4:38 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 4:38 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
This guy is an awful person regardless of the positive attributes you mentioned. He treated you horribly (so badly that it was painful to read some of the things you wrote). You said you thought you didn't deserve him, but in fact you deserve much better than him. And you will find such a person as long as you don't lose track of that fact.
posted by Dansaman at 4:58 PM on December 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Dansaman at 4:58 PM on December 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
From some of the phrasing you use, it sounds like this guy is in the pick-up or a similar community ("hedonism", "carefree"). Is that the case?
I think you really need to spend some time exploring other men and see what's out there. I also think it will drive him crazy to know that you are not on his string anymore.
posted by 3491again at 5:03 PM on December 8, 2012
I think you really need to spend some time exploring other men and see what's out there. I also think it will drive him crazy to know that you are not on his string anymore.
posted by 3491again at 5:03 PM on December 8, 2012
Response by poster: 3491again: I am not aware of whether he's part of such a community -- never made any reference to such things. But he's very reckless, physically uber-confident, but getting into accidents more frequently than most, some near-death, breaking bones, etc., and thinks he really ought to be immortal. When I mentioned he'll get old, lose his looks, and die someday, he was always denying it, like they'll discover a cure for that before it happens. He's not humble. Likely promiscuous. Loves all the finer things in life. Addicted to various stimulants. I could give you example after example. ugh. Anyway, he was completely fascinating to me, but very toxic.
I am exploring other men in that I analyze people who are on similar paths as me and whether they're more suitable for me. I feel passionate about protecting the environment, bio- and cultural diversity, so I'm watching lectures by men who feel the same way, noticing healthy relationships, and just observing all the different men in my workplace too. But I'm refraining from dating until I've got my dream career actually going. I don't want to be vaguely dissatisfied with my life while in a relationship again. It made me rely too much on the guy for satisfaction.
posted by Sa Dec at 5:47 PM on December 8, 2012
I am exploring other men in that I analyze people who are on similar paths as me and whether they're more suitable for me. I feel passionate about protecting the environment, bio- and cultural diversity, so I'm watching lectures by men who feel the same way, noticing healthy relationships, and just observing all the different men in my workplace too. But I'm refraining from dating until I've got my dream career actually going. I don't want to be vaguely dissatisfied with my life while in a relationship again. It made me rely too much on the guy for satisfaction.
posted by Sa Dec at 5:47 PM on December 8, 2012
- He used to cavalierly toss his dirty clothes at my head.
You know, my 1st grader does a lot of the things you list (not the blow job one). However, we're making him do time outs and have an early bedtime because this shit is unacceptable. And by the time he's 27-29, I don't want him doing the blow job one.
This guy just sounds really entitled and immature. He may be fun and funny and charming, but this level of entitlement and immaturity is not worth it.
posted by selfmedicating at 5:56 PM on December 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
You know, my 1st grader does a lot of the things you list (not the blow job one). However, we're making him do time outs and have an early bedtime because this shit is unacceptable. And by the time he's 27-29, I don't want him doing the blow job one.
This guy just sounds really entitled and immature. He may be fun and funny and charming, but this level of entitlement and immaturity is not worth it.
posted by selfmedicating at 5:56 PM on December 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Sa Dec: Google "somatic narcissist". I think you'll find it very interesting!
posted by 3491again at 6:32 PM on December 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by 3491again at 6:32 PM on December 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Sa Dec, AskMe is really not for extended back-and forth. At this point, please just let people answer as they will.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:32 PM on December 8, 2012
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:32 PM on December 8, 2012
Best answer: Keeping your attention focused on him and the relationship is not helping you. He sounds like a real jerk. You wanted a relationship and he was available. Put more effort into recognizing nice guys - they may not be as obvious. There are jerks who gravitate to women who are unsure of themselves, because those women are easier to manipulate. There are many nice men who don't pout themselves forward, may be shy or unsure of themselves, and they may be terrific people. You totally deserve better than him. Focus on being the best person you can be, and on understanding that you deserve a loving, caring partner.
posted by theora55 at 10:36 PM on December 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 10:36 PM on December 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
This guy has tons of issues, but you might get some help from Baggage Reclaim. It's geared towards a more specific brand of emotional unavailability, but the site runs very deep and pretty wide, and I bet you could find something there that will help, if not about this particular person then your own patterns.
The site has been redesigned since I last used it and I don't see the tag cloud that made it easy to navigate. Maybe the redesign has eliminated the need for that, but if not it's worth digging around.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:10 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
The site has been redesigned since I last used it and I don't see the tag cloud that made it easy to navigate. Maybe the redesign has eliminated the need for that, but if not it's worth digging around.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:10 PM on December 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm popping by to put this in the arena, which might help you feel better: you were around the age of 30. You were having Female 30 desperation. I'm not being flippant: I had it.
Relationship before: long-distance, respectful, mutually supportive. Relationship after: respectful, mutually supportive, 11 years and still going.
My relationship when I was 29 - a narcissistic sulker who wooed me when he thought he couldn't have me, told me the earrings he gave me were diamonds and I got my ears pierced for them (needless to say, they weren't). Big gestures etc. But when I went to stay with him, sulking, ignoring, not talking to me for the weekend, knowing I get issues when I go too long without eating, keeping me walking around town no time to pop to get something to eat, I helped with a big interest he had and he hated it and put me down when I showed ability and helpfulness, flirted with other women,had no pictures of me up, but photos of an ex everywhere, took me to places then cried about having been there with his ex.
And I put up with it. In the end I put my flat on sale, resigned my job, to move to his (other UK) country. Knowing deep down that he didn't want me to. Managed to force him to admit that after 2 weeks of refusing to answer his phone, getting his parents involved etc. and managed to claw back the flat sale but not the job (I was soooo embarassed). Left with terribly worse self-esteem than I started with and nearly sabotaged burgeoning rel with Mr LB by claiming I never wanted to get involved with anyone else.
Luckily, never felt the need to be friends with him, though am friends with other exes. I google him now and then just to check, but not obsessively. He's still living with his parents in the same village, no sign of a wife etc. Me, happy, successful, run my own business, assertive and happy.
I wonder if you will look back and put it down to 30 somethingness. There is that huge culture of settling down or marrying or whatever by 30, still, I think. Mind, that was 10 years ago. But that's the only thing I can put my moments of madness down to. Months of madness. No one I knew then or now can believe I put up with that.
You will recover. Memail me if you want to!
posted by LyzzyBee at 12:06 AM on December 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
Relationship before: long-distance, respectful, mutually supportive. Relationship after: respectful, mutually supportive, 11 years and still going.
My relationship when I was 29 - a narcissistic sulker who wooed me when he thought he couldn't have me, told me the earrings he gave me were diamonds and I got my ears pierced for them (needless to say, they weren't). Big gestures etc. But when I went to stay with him, sulking, ignoring, not talking to me for the weekend, knowing I get issues when I go too long without eating, keeping me walking around town no time to pop to get something to eat, I helped with a big interest he had and he hated it and put me down when I showed ability and helpfulness, flirted with other women,had no pictures of me up, but photos of an ex everywhere, took me to places then cried about having been there with his ex.
And I put up with it. In the end I put my flat on sale, resigned my job, to move to his (other UK) country. Knowing deep down that he didn't want me to. Managed to force him to admit that after 2 weeks of refusing to answer his phone, getting his parents involved etc. and managed to claw back the flat sale but not the job (I was soooo embarassed). Left with terribly worse self-esteem than I started with and nearly sabotaged burgeoning rel with Mr LB by claiming I never wanted to get involved with anyone else.
Luckily, never felt the need to be friends with him, though am friends with other exes. I google him now and then just to check, but not obsessively. He's still living with his parents in the same village, no sign of a wife etc. Me, happy, successful, run my own business, assertive and happy.
I wonder if you will look back and put it down to 30 somethingness. There is that huge culture of settling down or marrying or whatever by 30, still, I think. Mind, that was 10 years ago. But that's the only thing I can put my moments of madness down to. Months of madness. No one I knew then or now can believe I put up with that.
You will recover. Memail me if you want to!
posted by LyzzyBee at 12:06 AM on December 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
Best answer: "My background: mother (was) a doormat and father (was) abusive."
Sorry to say, but this sounds like a big reason why you're attracted to him, & still thinking about being friends with someone who would treat you like such crap/second hand citizen/doormat. He was emotionally abusive to you & you shouldn't let people like that back into your life, it's almost a signal to them that what they did is acceptable & has no consequences. You didn't deserve to be treated that way. It's very sad that he has gone though this long in life getting away with acting like a spoiled child, & hasn't had to feel the brunt of his actions. Maybe one day he'll be lucky enough to meet someone he falls in love with who treats him as bad as he treats other women.
I guess it's not strange that most attractive, smart, witty, or somehow otherly gifted people can be forgiven, or have their bad behaivor/flaws be lessened in the eyes of others, just because they seem to possess one magnetic quality. If he wasn't very smart, good looking, witty or charming, would you have put up with it? These qualities can cloud other people's judgement, that's why certain types get away with acting like they do. Don't be forgiving without true reason. His behavior demonstrates a general lack of integrity, & it will continue as long as some like that is allowed to get away with it (keyword being "allowed"). Change will not happen if there are no perceived consequences for actions, it will only start if the individual begins incurring personal ramifications. Bad behaivor is bad behaivor, don't accept it from anyone. Make it your golden rule for your life.
Like it was said upthread, there are more than enough good people out there who are witty, smart or charming, & wouldn't think of treating the one's they care about like crap. Work on finding them, there's a lot out there. From what you said it doesn't sound like he cared about you as a person, at all. Why would you want some like that around?
The best thing you can do is not to direct any more mental effort towards him. Know that you are so worthy of being treated better. I really think therapy would help you learn how to break this circle of unhealthy attraction, otherwise you might find yourself in the same situations (even though you are trying to be conscious of looking for healthier guys, the subconsious mind is a tricky thing).
People can only treat you the way you allow them to. Work on your self esteem & don't stand for anyone's bad behavior. Make it the norm that you leave & don't look back, as soon as someone starts mistreating you. Anything less is unacceptable.
posted by readygo at 1:41 AM on December 9, 2012 [8 favorites]
Sorry to say, but this sounds like a big reason why you're attracted to him, & still thinking about being friends with someone who would treat you like such crap/second hand citizen/doormat. He was emotionally abusive to you & you shouldn't let people like that back into your life, it's almost a signal to them that what they did is acceptable & has no consequences. You didn't deserve to be treated that way. It's very sad that he has gone though this long in life getting away with acting like a spoiled child, & hasn't had to feel the brunt of his actions. Maybe one day he'll be lucky enough to meet someone he falls in love with who treats him as bad as he treats other women.
I guess it's not strange that most attractive, smart, witty, or somehow otherly gifted people can be forgiven, or have their bad behaivor/flaws be lessened in the eyes of others, just because they seem to possess one magnetic quality. If he wasn't very smart, good looking, witty or charming, would you have put up with it? These qualities can cloud other people's judgement, that's why certain types get away with acting like they do. Don't be forgiving without true reason. His behavior demonstrates a general lack of integrity, & it will continue as long as some like that is allowed to get away with it (keyword being "allowed"). Change will not happen if there are no perceived consequences for actions, it will only start if the individual begins incurring personal ramifications. Bad behaivor is bad behaivor, don't accept it from anyone. Make it your golden rule for your life.
Like it was said upthread, there are more than enough good people out there who are witty, smart or charming, & wouldn't think of treating the one's they care about like crap. Work on finding them, there's a lot out there. From what you said it doesn't sound like he cared about you as a person, at all. Why would you want some like that around?
The best thing you can do is not to direct any more mental effort towards him. Know that you are so worthy of being treated better. I really think therapy would help you learn how to break this circle of unhealthy attraction, otherwise you might find yourself in the same situations (even though you are trying to be conscious of looking for healthier guys, the subconsious mind is a tricky thing).
People can only treat you the way you allow them to. Work on your self esteem & don't stand for anyone's bad behavior. Make it the norm that you leave & don't look back, as soon as someone starts mistreating you. Anything less is unacceptable.
posted by readygo at 1:41 AM on December 9, 2012 [8 favorites]
If you ever feel like you really miss being with him, or feel envious of his new girls, I advise you to remember the part about how he doesn't wash enough down there. And tried to trap you under a blanket with his smelly junk. So. Nasty.
posted by tomboko at 5:20 AM on December 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by tomboko at 5:20 AM on December 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
I get that he could have felt like I was not an equal girlfriend he could be proud of.
This man has no interest whatsoever in having an equal girlfriend.
posted by shiny blue object at 5:34 AM on December 9, 2012 [9 favorites]
This man has no interest whatsoever in having an equal girlfriend.
posted by shiny blue object at 5:34 AM on December 9, 2012 [9 favorites]
Honestly, it sounds like a horrible relationship with someone who was unkind and pushed you to the side. You were with him for a long time it sounds like? 3 years?
There were a few things I wondered about. This:
He strung me along for sex post-breakup while we were still living together, until I discovered all this and couldn't "love" him anymore or see him the same way.
To some extent, I guess you can "string someone along" for sex, but wasn't it a choice you made to do something that you were apparently uncomfortable with? If you didn't want to have sex with him, why did you have sex with him? It makes me wonder if part of the reason you were his doormat, is because you proffered yourself up to be his doormat. You really don't have to put up with that kind of treatment from people.
It's also a little concerning that you're still hung up on trying to be his friend. He wasn't ever very friendly to you. It sounds like you've engaged in some real self reflection about your self esteem, etc. but based on this, there's probably more work to be done.
Regardless of your family's messed up past and whatever shame you might have about yourself, you're worthy of love and someone who treats you kindly and you're capable of a healthy relationship. You really are. It just might take some work. Painful experiences that I've had like this have always been the points in my life where I was able to reflect and change in ways that made me happier and better.
posted by mermily at 6:42 AM on December 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
There were a few things I wondered about. This:
He strung me along for sex post-breakup while we were still living together, until I discovered all this and couldn't "love" him anymore or see him the same way.
To some extent, I guess you can "string someone along" for sex, but wasn't it a choice you made to do something that you were apparently uncomfortable with? If you didn't want to have sex with him, why did you have sex with him? It makes me wonder if part of the reason you were his doormat, is because you proffered yourself up to be his doormat. You really don't have to put up with that kind of treatment from people.
It's also a little concerning that you're still hung up on trying to be his friend. He wasn't ever very friendly to you. It sounds like you've engaged in some real self reflection about your self esteem, etc. but based on this, there's probably more work to be done.
Regardless of your family's messed up past and whatever shame you might have about yourself, you're worthy of love and someone who treats you kindly and you're capable of a healthy relationship. You really are. It just might take some work. Painful experiences that I've had like this have always been the points in my life where I was able to reflect and change in ways that made me happier and better.
posted by mermily at 6:42 AM on December 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Gosh, just to say that above, I wasn't trying to blame you for any of his vileness, just saying that women of my experience (and me) seem to turn off the alert systems at various crunch times in our lives. Just wanted to explain that!
posted by LyzzyBee at 9:56 AM on December 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by LyzzyBee at 9:56 AM on December 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
He sounds highly narcissistic, if not a narcissist per se. We can't diagnose anything over the Internet, especially since we're not doctors, but we sure can describe behaviour as narcissistic, and when the description fits it fits tightly.
For the record I don't think this is a litany of normal failings that anybody could recite after a breakup. The things you describe are not the flaws of someone basically normal whose good side you're temporarily blinded to. He sounds like a bag of dicks who is selective about who he dates (trophy women who he has tested to see if they'll put up with his crap). If you had failed one of his tests early on, like, he does something douchey and you don't respond in a way that he thinks will enable his douchery into the future, he would probably have dropped you without a word. You might have sent a baffled and heartbroken question to the green at that point - why did he disappear? And the answer would have been the same then as we're giving you now - because he's a douchecopter.
Why did you put up with it? Well you were trained to put up with it, and we all know better than to look for our perfect partner because nobody's perfect so instead, we look for someone whose faults we can live with. And you could live with his faults, at least for a while.
I think your analysis of what happened is spot on and everything you thought was insulting, was insulting. You just don't see the significance of it - you're not seeing how bad it was.
If you weren't a trophy he wouldn't have dated you at all, I can guarantee you that. I also assure you that, including on occasions when you couldn't hear it, he was talking you up to everyone he knew as being a huge trophy that they could never compete with. He dated you because he wanted to be the guy with the best girlfriend. Of course he wasn't going to let *you* enjoy the spotlight, because he wanted all the benefits of your fabness for himself. Because guys like this are zero-sum players, if there's anything good in the room it's all for him. So in a real psychological sense, he vampirized you of all your sparkle and charisma so that only he, and not you, would benefit from it. So here you are feeling like a church mouse next to a peacock. But all that good stuff was never coming from him in the first place - it was coming from you. You stayed because of what you thought he had to offer, but in reality he was reliant on you. That was why he had to replace you so fast - he doesn't have the resources to get through a day on his own.
What I think you should do is get a copy of "Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behaviour" and read a little of it each night. It will help you to evaluate the signs of respect and contempt in all your interactions. I also recommend "Why Men Love Bitches" to help you recognise when you are being messed with and have scripts for politely declining to be taken advantage of.
posted by tel3path at 11:35 AM on December 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
For the record I don't think this is a litany of normal failings that anybody could recite after a breakup. The things you describe are not the flaws of someone basically normal whose good side you're temporarily blinded to. He sounds like a bag of dicks who is selective about who he dates (trophy women who he has tested to see if they'll put up with his crap). If you had failed one of his tests early on, like, he does something douchey and you don't respond in a way that he thinks will enable his douchery into the future, he would probably have dropped you without a word. You might have sent a baffled and heartbroken question to the green at that point - why did he disappear? And the answer would have been the same then as we're giving you now - because he's a douchecopter.
Why did you put up with it? Well you were trained to put up with it, and we all know better than to look for our perfect partner because nobody's perfect so instead, we look for someone whose faults we can live with. And you could live with his faults, at least for a while.
I think your analysis of what happened is spot on and everything you thought was insulting, was insulting. You just don't see the significance of it - you're not seeing how bad it was.
If you weren't a trophy he wouldn't have dated you at all, I can guarantee you that. I also assure you that, including on occasions when you couldn't hear it, he was talking you up to everyone he knew as being a huge trophy that they could never compete with. He dated you because he wanted to be the guy with the best girlfriend. Of course he wasn't going to let *you* enjoy the spotlight, because he wanted all the benefits of your fabness for himself. Because guys like this are zero-sum players, if there's anything good in the room it's all for him. So in a real psychological sense, he vampirized you of all your sparkle and charisma so that only he, and not you, would benefit from it. So here you are feeling like a church mouse next to a peacock. But all that good stuff was never coming from him in the first place - it was coming from you. You stayed because of what you thought he had to offer, but in reality he was reliant on you. That was why he had to replace you so fast - he doesn't have the resources to get through a day on his own.
What I think you should do is get a copy of "Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behaviour" and read a little of it each night. It will help you to evaluate the signs of respect and contempt in all your interactions. I also recommend "Why Men Love Bitches" to help you recognise when you are being messed with and have scripts for politely declining to be taken advantage of.
posted by tel3path at 11:35 AM on December 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: tel3path: just to clarify, I think he wanted to be with someone who was socially sparkling (I'm not) because he himself felt inadequate about that but hid it behind cockiness. He would ignore me if I wasn't the center of attention by nature.
But he would praise/reward me when I did or said something that was socially brilliant; for example: he loved to brag that in Montreal I was able to communicate with our cab driver with my high school French. Those moments of acknowledging my worth from him were very rare. It seemed to only happen when I was useful to him somehow.
posted by Sa Dec at 12:08 PM on December 9, 2012
But he would praise/reward me when I did or said something that was socially brilliant; for example: he loved to brag that in Montreal I was able to communicate with our cab driver with my high school French. Those moments of acknowledging my worth from him were very rare. It seemed to only happen when I was useful to him somehow.
posted by Sa Dec at 12:08 PM on December 9, 2012
Re: Therapy and paying for same:
rtha's suggestion to "Google 'sliding scale therapy' and similar for your city or town" is a good one.
You might also want to check out Needymeds, a nonprorift whose mission is to direct people to low- or no-cost sources of medication and health care. The site has a searchable database of free/low-cost/sliding-scale clinics nationwide, and many of these clinics offer mental health services. (The database includes info on each clinic's hours, location, cost, and services.)
Re: This relationship: My sister teaches eighth grade and has taught high school, and she just groans whenever anyone brings up the "Twilight" series. Why? Because it glamorizes the aloof, condescending, withholding guy who makes your world come alive whenever he deigns to notice that you're there. And the girls she was teaching inhale those books (and movies).
The "Twilight" reference is not meant to be shorthand for, "Oh, you're acting like an eighth-grader." Lots of people, at whatever age, are vulnerable to the kind of mindfuckery that your ex practiced. I call that kind of relationship -- I had two of them in my 30s -- "Another Fucking Growth Experience." And of course, I know that women also are capable of undermining their partners via emotional vampirism.
Before/in addition to therapy, you might want to look at Captain Awkward's advice column archives, especially her answers to the questions tagged "Darth Vader Boyfriend." She's not preachy and she is funny, feminist, incisive, respectful and compassionate. You deserve respect and compassion, from both yourself and others.
posted by virago at 3:08 PM on December 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
rtha's suggestion to "Google 'sliding scale therapy' and similar for your city or town" is a good one.
You might also want to check out Needymeds, a nonprorift whose mission is to direct people to low- or no-cost sources of medication and health care. The site has a searchable database of free/low-cost/sliding-scale clinics nationwide, and many of these clinics offer mental health services. (The database includes info on each clinic's hours, location, cost, and services.)
Re: This relationship: My sister teaches eighth grade and has taught high school, and she just groans whenever anyone brings up the "Twilight" series. Why? Because it glamorizes the aloof, condescending, withholding guy who makes your world come alive whenever he deigns to notice that you're there. And the girls she was teaching inhale those books (and movies).
The "Twilight" reference is not meant to be shorthand for, "Oh, you're acting like an eighth-grader." Lots of people, at whatever age, are vulnerable to the kind of mindfuckery that your ex practiced. I call that kind of relationship -- I had two of them in my 30s -- "Another Fucking Growth Experience." And of course, I know that women also are capable of undermining their partners via emotional vampirism.
Before/in addition to therapy, you might want to look at Captain Awkward's advice column archives, especially her answers to the questions tagged "Darth Vader Boyfriend." She's not preachy and she is funny, feminist, incisive, respectful and compassionate. You deserve respect and compassion, from both yourself and others.
posted by virago at 3:08 PM on December 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
I was very close to asking this exact same question to AskMeFi - why did I as a reasonable person waste so much time and energy dating a huge douchecopter, and how do I avoid doing it again? - when this popped up on my feed.
Thank you for having the courage to post, OP, and thanks for all your responses. I'll be using em'.
posted by cheberet at 9:12 PM on December 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
Thank you for having the courage to post, OP, and thanks for all your responses. I'll be using em'.
posted by cheberet at 9:12 PM on December 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by xingcat at 2:47 PM on December 8, 2012 [30 favorites]