Past Relationship Baggage - a deal breaker?
August 22, 2005 8:20 PM
PastRelationshipBaggageFilter: Help me get the guy I'm dating to trust me!
I've been dating a wonderful guy for about 3 months now. Everything is clicking, except that he just can't open up to me. He was hurt very badly in his last relationship (all of his deepest, darkest secrets were used against him by a very manipulative woman), and he just doesn't seem to trust me. He claims that he doesn't have the "emotional capital" to spend on a relationship right now, and that he has only stuck with the relationship as long as he has because he really likes me.
I keep seeing glimpses of a guy who I could be with long-term, but I can't seem to do anything to get him to open up. Any advice? Has anyone dealt with a similar situation in the past, either successfully or unsuccessfully? Should I just get out while I can and cut my losses?
I've been dating a wonderful guy for about 3 months now. Everything is clicking, except that he just can't open up to me. He was hurt very badly in his last relationship (all of his deepest, darkest secrets were used against him by a very manipulative woman), and he just doesn't seem to trust me. He claims that he doesn't have the "emotional capital" to spend on a relationship right now, and that he has only stuck with the relationship as long as he has because he really likes me.
I keep seeing glimpses of a guy who I could be with long-term, but I can't seem to do anything to get him to open up. Any advice? Has anyone dealt with a similar situation in the past, either successfully or unsuccessfully? Should I just get out while I can and cut my losses?
Does the guy not give you his email password, or will he not give you his home address? Not trusting you can mean a whole heap of different things, some reasonable, some not.
From a quick reading it seems to me that the guy has opened up as far as he wants to and he's told you that this is what you're getting for now. Not having emotional capital to spend on a relationship seems pretty straightforward to me. Three months is very little time to get to the really opening up stage, in my experience, especially with someone with a negative history. I don't think you need to get out while you can, but maybe give the guy some serious room to figure out how to open up to someone and trust them without feeling like he's under the gun in a "hurry up and trust me" sort of way.
While I'm sure you feel like you're trustworthy and you clearly like this guy a lot, whatever metrics he is using to see when to trust you are different, and have different timeframes. If you're seeing progress but it's slow, I'd lay off and wait. If you feel like you're spinning your wheels and months later you're still where you are right now, it might be time to think about other options.
posted by jessamyn at 8:45 PM on August 22, 2005
From a quick reading it seems to me that the guy has opened up as far as he wants to and he's told you that this is what you're getting for now. Not having emotional capital to spend on a relationship seems pretty straightforward to me. Three months is very little time to get to the really opening up stage, in my experience, especially with someone with a negative history. I don't think you need to get out while you can, but maybe give the guy some serious room to figure out how to open up to someone and trust them without feeling like he's under the gun in a "hurry up and trust me" sort of way.
While I'm sure you feel like you're trustworthy and you clearly like this guy a lot, whatever metrics he is using to see when to trust you are different, and have different timeframes. If you're seeing progress but it's slow, I'd lay off and wait. If you feel like you're spinning your wheels and months later you're still where you are right now, it might be time to think about other options.
posted by jessamyn at 8:45 PM on August 22, 2005
I say give him time. Three months is still a relatively new relationship. If you care about this guy, whatever you do don't give up now -- that will only reinforce whatever negative ideas he has from the last relationship. Stick it out, and let him know you'll be there for him when he's ready, but don't push. Eventually he'll see that you're trustworthy and he'll start to open up bit by bit.
posted by geeky at 8:45 PM on August 22, 2005
posted by geeky at 8:45 PM on August 22, 2005
I hate how the post button is where preview used to be.
I can safely say that because I'm in a similar situation. I have no interest in dating right now 'cept casually. I'm not going to trust someone further than I can throw them for the first few months that I know them. It sounds like his hurt's gone deeper than mine ever did, and guys are just as vulnerable to being hurt by manipulative pricks as women are (although it seems men put up with less shit/drama and seem to get hurt less often because of it...) The problem is that men tend to heal in private, through introspection and quiet thinking. You can't help the process along from the outside.
Solid relationships require a lot of trust, a lot of faith in yourself and the other person, and a lot of giving. He doesn't have much faith in his ability to choose a partner right now. He isn't able to trust because that part of him is broken. He can't give you his trust because he doesn't have any to give. If you really want this relationship, and you think you could be with him for a long time, it's up to you to have faith in him that he will heal. It's on your plate to trust him, and to know that he's not hiding from you. It's to you to give him the silence and the space in which to heal.
posted by SpecialK at 8:46 PM on August 22, 2005
I can safely say that because I'm in a similar situation. I have no interest in dating right now 'cept casually. I'm not going to trust someone further than I can throw them for the first few months that I know them. It sounds like his hurt's gone deeper than mine ever did, and guys are just as vulnerable to being hurt by manipulative pricks as women are (although it seems men put up with less shit/drama and seem to get hurt less often because of it...) The problem is that men tend to heal in private, through introspection and quiet thinking. You can't help the process along from the outside.
Solid relationships require a lot of trust, a lot of faith in yourself and the other person, and a lot of giving. He doesn't have much faith in his ability to choose a partner right now. He isn't able to trust because that part of him is broken. He can't give you his trust because he doesn't have any to give. If you really want this relationship, and you think you could be with him for a long time, it's up to you to have faith in him that he will heal. It's on your plate to trust him, and to know that he's not hiding from you. It's to you to give him the silence and the space in which to heal.
posted by SpecialK at 8:46 PM on August 22, 2005
I'm a guy, so I hope you don't mind me chiming in.
I was just having this conversation with someone tonight. On the one hand, I have sympathy for the guy, because betrayal is one of the hardest things to get over. On the other hand, he's implicitly comparing you to the other woman and not getting over "it".
I once broke up with someone I was dating because she had a gigantic piece of baggage, and it was as if there were three people in the relationship. I couldn't "stand by her" because when she looked at me, she saw him, and it was abundantly clear to me that my presence was getting in the way of her healing. Hardest thing I'd ever had to do, because I'm a compassionate, empathetic guy, but I'm absolutely convinced it was the right decision, because we're friends today, and she's a healthy, happy person.
The real question, it seems, isn't about him but about you. How patient are you? Is this the type of relationship you want, and, if this is a recurring part of his emotional framework, can you deal with that long-term? If you want it to work, you need to balance letting him heal with not allowing him to manipulate the situation by drawing it out and getting comfortable with being a victim (if, indeed, that is the case). If you don't, you need to find a firm way to end the relationship firmly. IMHO, of course.
posted by socratic at 8:57 PM on August 22, 2005
I was just having this conversation with someone tonight. On the one hand, I have sympathy for the guy, because betrayal is one of the hardest things to get over. On the other hand, he's implicitly comparing you to the other woman and not getting over "it".
I once broke up with someone I was dating because she had a gigantic piece of baggage, and it was as if there were three people in the relationship. I couldn't "stand by her" because when she looked at me, she saw him, and it was abundantly clear to me that my presence was getting in the way of her healing. Hardest thing I'd ever had to do, because I'm a compassionate, empathetic guy, but I'm absolutely convinced it was the right decision, because we're friends today, and she's a healthy, happy person.
The real question, it seems, isn't about him but about you. How patient are you? Is this the type of relationship you want, and, if this is a recurring part of his emotional framework, can you deal with that long-term? If you want it to work, you need to balance letting him heal with not allowing him to manipulate the situation by drawing it out and getting comfortable with being a victim (if, indeed, that is the case). If you don't, you need to find a firm way to end the relationship firmly. IMHO, of course.
posted by socratic at 8:57 PM on August 22, 2005
A relationship where one party is doing all the work and trying to make things work and the other party is just "sticking it out" because he enjoys the company is not a healthy relationship. If he's not willing to share, he's got no right to take what you're offering. Offer him an ultimatum: he needs to either commit to making an effort or just end things now with a clean break. Don't let things drag on for another three months. He should acknowledge your need and demonstrate a real willingness to address your need. Sure, he has a troubled past etc.--in the end, you have needs and wants. Focus on what you want (write it down even) and tell him. If he really cares about you, and actually wants the relationship to go anywhere, he will do his best to make you happy. If he can't do this, end it now. The pain you'll feel in six months (or, worse, nine months) will be much worse than anything you'll feel if you end it now.
That said, I never got the need to dwell on the past of your partner. The past is the past. Why do you need to know his deepest, darkest secrets? Are you writing a biography on the guy? Perhaps focus less on who he was and more on who he is. If he's willing to share most everything else but some elements of his past then that ought to be enough.
posted by nixerman at 9:09 PM on August 22, 2005
That said, I never got the need to dwell on the past of your partner. The past is the past. Why do you need to know his deepest, darkest secrets? Are you writing a biography on the guy? Perhaps focus less on who he was and more on who he is. If he's willing to share most everything else but some elements of his past then that ought to be enough.
posted by nixerman at 9:09 PM on August 22, 2005
Should I just get out while I can and cut my losses?Probably. Because the grass is greener over there, to the left.
If you see potential for a lasting relationship, three months is nothing. Repost this question after you've invested a year or two. Three months might be adequate to determine whether there's potential, but it takes a lot longer to begin seeing problems and finding solutions. As usual, the best advice is the simplest and probably comes from your grandfather: "Be patient and work hard."
posted by cribcage at 10:16 PM on August 22, 2005
It's possible that he isn't opening up is because he feels pressure from you and it makes him uncomfortable. I say this because I was in that position, and that's how I felt. My last serious relationship turned out to be all my irrational fears come true, and it has taken me a long time to see people as they are and not as I fear they'd be. He may not get over it in a timeframe that is acceptable to you. C'est la vie.
posted by cali at 10:26 PM on August 22, 2005
posted by cali at 10:26 PM on August 22, 2005
I think you might need to relax and back off a bit, frankly. Three months is nothing in the grand scheme of things and I truly think that some element of Zen is necessary in relationships, especially long term (or potential long term) ones. I suspect that YOU hardly truly know if this will be long-term or not at this point. I really do understand how frustrating this must be for you, but I think it's in your own best interests to respect his disinclination to talk right now, and sit back and bit and see what happens. He either can't or won't open up as much as you want right now, and either way, you'll know soon enough and can base your next move on that. Trust isn't something you can force, the best way to earn it is to BE trustworthy, and he'll either trust you when he's ready, or he won't (also, he may just not be the sort of person who can easily have deep, emotional conversations even when he DOES trust someone, it's a whole lot more work for some people than others). You are not unreasonable for wanting this, but I think you're jumping the gun a bit. Eventually, he will owe you the kind of open conversations you want (although it may always be like pulling teeth), but he doesn't owe it yet.
I say wait it out and see where you are three more months from now, and then see how you feel about waiting longer or not (if necessary) - you can't make him be someone he isn't, and if you force him to pretend, it will bite you in the long run.
posted by biscotti at 10:32 PM on August 22, 2005
I say wait it out and see where you are three more months from now, and then see how you feel about waiting longer or not (if necessary) - you can't make him be someone he isn't, and if you force him to pretend, it will bite you in the long run.
posted by biscotti at 10:32 PM on August 22, 2005
I can't seem to do anything to get him to open up. Any advice?
"Do?" Try not doing. Seriously. Patience. Let him come to you on his terms. If those terms are unaccetable / don't meet your needs, then you should be honest with yourself about that. There's no speeding up time to whiz through other people's issues. Space and time are important needs, and not always compatible with a relationship.
Maybe just setting aside the idea that you can or should DO something to change the situation will put you at ease.
posted by scarabic at 11:53 PM on August 22, 2005
"Do?" Try not doing. Seriously. Patience. Let him come to you on his terms. If those terms are unaccetable / don't meet your needs, then you should be honest with yourself about that. There's no speeding up time to whiz through other people's issues. Space and time are important needs, and not always compatible with a relationship.
Maybe just setting aside the idea that you can or should DO something to change the situation will put you at ease.
posted by scarabic at 11:53 PM on August 22, 2005
This might sound slightly contrary and I have no way of knowing whether or not this advice is even remotely applicable in this situation but I'm wondering if he might be using past baggage as a manipulative tactic. I say this because I was once involved in a train wreck of a relationship and I'm positive that, upon our break up, my ex would have said the exact same sort of things about me. By no means was I innocent, but he was one of the most manipulative, controlling and abusive people I've ever known...
He then used this 'baggage,' much of which he was responsible for creating, to create an emotional (co)dependency with his new girlfriend. She invested more and more in the relationship to try and make him feel safe, cared for, etc while he was let off the emotional investment hook (so to speak). For him, it seemed to be about power: he got her to keep investing in the relationship because he could, because he could make her do something, all the while whining about the effects of our train wreck of a relationship to her. Not too classy and supremely manipulative.
I only know the above story because he called me and told me, then tried to make me feel sorry for causing him all of this hurt and pain (which I still don't buy), and then tried to get me to help fix him with more emotional investment from me (while telling me that I'd destroyed his life, his ability to be happy, and his ability to love). I do realise that this sounds both heartless and cynical and, once again, I have no idea if this is applicable in your situtation, but do be aware.
posted by lumiere at 12:49 AM on August 23, 2005
He then used this 'baggage,' much of which he was responsible for creating, to create an emotional (co)dependency with his new girlfriend. She invested more and more in the relationship to try and make him feel safe, cared for, etc while he was let off the emotional investment hook (so to speak). For him, it seemed to be about power: he got her to keep investing in the relationship because he could, because he could make her do something, all the while whining about the effects of our train wreck of a relationship to her. Not too classy and supremely manipulative.
I only know the above story because he called me and told me, then tried to make me feel sorry for causing him all of this hurt and pain (which I still don't buy), and then tried to get me to help fix him with more emotional investment from me (while telling me that I'd destroyed his life, his ability to be happy, and his ability to love). I do realise that this sounds both heartless and cynical and, once again, I have no idea if this is applicable in your situtation, but do be aware.
posted by lumiere at 12:49 AM on August 23, 2005
Back off for God's sake! Can't you just enjoy being with the guy without having to get some sort of emotional claws into him?
posted by biffa at 2:14 AM on August 23, 2005
posted by biffa at 2:14 AM on August 23, 2005
I'd rather talk about money than emotional stuff. Some of this is a guy thing.
posted by craniac at 4:44 AM on August 23, 2005
posted by craniac at 4:44 AM on August 23, 2005
I'll second all the comments to back off a bit. I can appreciate what you're trying to accomplish, but if I was in his position, and the girl I was dating was pushing me to open up more than I felt comfortable with at that time, I'd break up with you rather than going faster than I was ready to.
(And I have been.... and she did.... and I did.)
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:18 AM on August 23, 2005
(And I have been.... and she did.... and I did.)
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:18 AM on August 23, 2005
It's very possible you're the rebound relationship, and any pushing you do to get him to open up might make that even more likely.
Having been in a very similar situation, I'd say cut your losses and move on to someone who has had more time and perspective on their last relationship.
posted by pinky at 6:30 AM on August 23, 2005
Having been in a very similar situation, I'd say cut your losses and move on to someone who has had more time and perspective on their last relationship.
posted by pinky at 6:30 AM on August 23, 2005
Back off for God's sake! Can't you just enjoy being with the guy without having to get some sort of emotional claws into him?
This sounds like a classic girl/guy communication strategy conflict. Generally speaking, girls tend to maintain healthy relationships by talking to each other, by dishing on the important and the mundane. When we're working through something, we're on the phone with our best friend. That he's not opening up to you might make you feel that he's not trusting you, because when our girlfriends refuse to talk to us about something, we feel that it's a symptom of the relationship going sour (and it often is).
Many guys, as I am slowly learning, just don't communicate like this. They tend to make decisions in their head, not by hashing it out with other people. They don't tell us every little thing, not because they don't think we're important, but because it doesn't occur to them to tell us. There's also the "don't show weakness!" imperative, which frankly, I don't get at all, because girls bond through shared struggles a lot of the time, but that's probably key in this situation too.
You should recognise that he's not going to deal with this the way that you would deal with it. He might not ever want to talk about it. He might think about it for a long time and eventually creep out of his shell and decide that it's history and mentioning it wouldn't do any good, so let's forget about it. It would probably help you to realise that that reaction isn't a reflection on you (probably), it's just the way he deals with things.
As for biffa's "emotional claws" remark... that's how girls interact with people we care about. We talk to them and tell them all of our thoughts and emotions, and when we don't get the same back, it feels like an insult. Because it is in the girl-universe. Sharing emotions is enjoying being with him.
[/over-generalising]
YMMV, whether you stay is up to you, etc.
posted by heatherann at 7:12 AM on August 23, 2005
This sounds like a classic girl/guy communication strategy conflict. Generally speaking, girls tend to maintain healthy relationships by talking to each other, by dishing on the important and the mundane. When we're working through something, we're on the phone with our best friend. That he's not opening up to you might make you feel that he's not trusting you, because when our girlfriends refuse to talk to us about something, we feel that it's a symptom of the relationship going sour (and it often is).
Many guys, as I am slowly learning, just don't communicate like this. They tend to make decisions in their head, not by hashing it out with other people. They don't tell us every little thing, not because they don't think we're important, but because it doesn't occur to them to tell us. There's also the "don't show weakness!" imperative, which frankly, I don't get at all, because girls bond through shared struggles a lot of the time, but that's probably key in this situation too.
You should recognise that he's not going to deal with this the way that you would deal with it. He might not ever want to talk about it. He might think about it for a long time and eventually creep out of his shell and decide that it's history and mentioning it wouldn't do any good, so let's forget about it. It would probably help you to realise that that reaction isn't a reflection on you (probably), it's just the way he deals with things.
As for biffa's "emotional claws" remark... that's how girls interact with people we care about. We talk to them and tell them all of our thoughts and emotions, and when we don't get the same back, it feels like an insult. Because it is in the girl-universe. Sharing emotions is enjoying being with him.
[/over-generalising]
YMMV, whether you stay is up to you, etc.
posted by heatherann at 7:12 AM on August 23, 2005
It seems to me that he's communicating pretty well. He says he doesn't have the emotional capital for a relationship. Why not take him at his word?
posted by rdr at 7:39 AM on August 23, 2005
posted by rdr at 7:39 AM on August 23, 2005
Trust is not a switch, it's a ladder. Every day he's with you and things are going well is a step up the ladder to trust. Every demand to be trusted is a step back down. It sucks that his past has grown his trust-ladder so much, but if you want to climb it, it'll just take more time. Decide for yourself if you have it.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:26 AM on August 23, 2005
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:26 AM on August 23, 2005
Well, people have all the bases pretty much covered as far as romatic advice. I would say stick it out and give him his space. If he wasn't 'trusting' when you met him, you can't expect him to suddenly become trusting just because you want him to be. Just avoid all the drama and enjoy the time you spend with him without worrying so much. If that's unacceptable to you, then just dump him. Whatevs
I will say this though; a good idea might be to do some 'teambuilding' exercises. Like going camping and working on a project together. Working together to overcome obstacles (artificial or not) is a good way to build trust. That might 'accelerate' the trust he's forming in you.
posted by delmoi at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2005
I will say this though; a good idea might be to do some 'teambuilding' exercises. Like going camping and working on a project together. Working together to overcome obstacles (artificial or not) is a good way to build trust. That might 'accelerate' the trust he's forming in you.
posted by delmoi at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2005
As a person with trust issues, I'd like to echo what most everyone else is saying: BACK OFF. My trust issues also stem from emotionally exposing myself to people (sometimes after being pushed) and being stabbed in the back for it later.
The only way I'm able to get close to opening up to people is when they're my friends and when they never, ever push. They talk about their own feelings and experiences, without any meaningful glances or prompting for me to do the same, and this goes a long way to helping me feel comfortable and eventually talking.
Basically, if he really does have trust issues the harder you try to open him, the tighter he'll close up. If you want this relationship to go places you'll have to be patient.
posted by Anonymous at 2:51 PM on August 23, 2005
The only way I'm able to get close to opening up to people is when they're my friends and when they never, ever push. They talk about their own feelings and experiences, without any meaningful glances or prompting for me to do the same, and this goes a long way to helping me feel comfortable and eventually talking.
Basically, if he really does have trust issues the harder you try to open him, the tighter he'll close up. If you want this relationship to go places you'll have to be patient.
posted by Anonymous at 2:51 PM on August 23, 2005
He claims that he doesn't have the "emotional capital" to spend on a relationship right now
About 10 years ago, a guy I was involved with said essentially said the exact same thing to me. And you know what I did? I ignored it. I did everything I (and my friends) could possibly think of to "make him" trust me, feel emotionally open, heal the wounds of his past manipulative/dominating girlfriend, etc. The entire process turned out to be one of the most crippling, esteem-wrecking traumas of my 20s.
The thing is, sometimes guys do actually say exactly what they mean. We ladies may like to dress it up into some complex, nuanced narrative that we think needs to be decoded, but that can be a real mistake. If he says he doesn't have the emotional capital to spend on a relationship, he doesn't have the emotional capital to spend on a relationship. Period.
Look, he may indeed be scarred by a past relationship. He may indeed like you very much. You two may indeed be clicking together. He may seem like he's got great relationship potential. Those factors can all be perfectly true, but sadly irrelevant; indeed, they serve to distract from the only relevant issue here -- which is that he says (not merely "claims," as you phrase it, but actually states ) that he can't emotionally invest in a relationship with you. He may feel bad about that. He may be confused about that. You may think he doesn't really mean it, because so many other things about being together are going so well. But the botom line is, he's revealed a crucial truth to you about where he is, emotionally, at this stage of his life. Not to turn into a huge doomsayer, but you ignore this revelation at your emotional peril.
Sure, it doesn't mean you have to break up with him today. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy your time together. But it does, I think, mean that you'd be wise not to presume there's anything you can do to "fix" him in order to get a commitment out of him.
posted by scody at 5:49 PM on August 23, 2005
About 10 years ago, a guy I was involved with said essentially said the exact same thing to me. And you know what I did? I ignored it. I did everything I (and my friends) could possibly think of to "make him" trust me, feel emotionally open, heal the wounds of his past manipulative/dominating girlfriend, etc. The entire process turned out to be one of the most crippling, esteem-wrecking traumas of my 20s.
The thing is, sometimes guys do actually say exactly what they mean. We ladies may like to dress it up into some complex, nuanced narrative that we think needs to be decoded, but that can be a real mistake. If he says he doesn't have the emotional capital to spend on a relationship, he doesn't have the emotional capital to spend on a relationship. Period.
Look, he may indeed be scarred by a past relationship. He may indeed like you very much. You two may indeed be clicking together. He may seem like he's got great relationship potential. Those factors can all be perfectly true, but sadly irrelevant; indeed, they serve to distract from the only relevant issue here -- which is that he says (not merely "claims," as you phrase it, but actually states ) that he can't emotionally invest in a relationship with you. He may feel bad about that. He may be confused about that. You may think he doesn't really mean it, because so many other things about being together are going so well. But the botom line is, he's revealed a crucial truth to you about where he is, emotionally, at this stage of his life. Not to turn into a huge doomsayer, but you ignore this revelation at your emotional peril.
Sure, it doesn't mean you have to break up with him today. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy your time together. But it does, I think, mean that you'd be wise not to presume there's anything you can do to "fix" him in order to get a commitment out of him.
posted by scody at 5:49 PM on August 23, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by SpecialK at 8:38 PM on August 22, 2005