Help me find God.

August 19, 2005 9:04 AM

Help me find God.

My father's family is Jewish. My mother's family is Catholic. My parents were divorced when I was 4, and mom eventually became what I affectionately call a born-again Native American. I married a Southern Baptist in an Episcopalian church. My oldest 2 girls attend a Waldorf school. My closest friend has joined a United Methodist congregation. In my youth I was aggressively atheist. In high school I decided to hedge my bets and went agnostic. As a young man, I had a private epiphany that brought me to an awareness of God, and for the last 10 years I have been trying to find a ... peer group, for lack of a better phrase.

You may infer from the text thus far that I don't consider Jews, Catholics, Native Americans, Southern Baptists, etc. etc. to be peers, and from the standpoint of religious doctrine you would be correct. However, this is more likely due to my (very) limited grasp of said doctrines than anything else. Would a comparative religions course be at all useful, or is an academic approach the wrong road to take? Do I really need a peer group? Should a personal relationship with God be enough? What do I teach my children?

I understand and accept that this is a deeply personal issue, and my intent is not to incite a flame war, or even a debate. But surely I am not the first person to face this search -- who else out there discovered God and then religion in that order, instead of the other way around? What worked for you?

posted by ZakDaddy to religion & philosophy (31 comments total)

You could find a Unitarian Universalist church. They're a religious peer group and a comparitive religions course all in one.

(By the way, I haven't found religion, but reading the Religious Tolerance website gave me some small understanding of it.)
posted by CrunchyFrog at 9:16 AM on August 19, 2005

You might want to look into "the perennial philosophy" and "the Traditionalists," if you are looking for some philosophical ideas that can accomodate your personal experience.

It's a movement that took comparative religion and metaphysics VERY seriously. Some names to check out are Huston Smith, Frithjof Schuon, Rene Guenon, James Cutsinger, and Seyyed Hossein Nasr.

From a certain (NON-relativistic or wishy-washy) perspective, all seriously spiritual people can be seen to be traveling towards the same place as you.
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:22 AM on August 19, 2005

I second the suggestion of exploring a Unitarian Universalist congregation. They are non-dogmatic and foster their members' own spiritual journey and search for truth and meaning. I suggested reading the seven principles and purposes to get an idea of what they're about and if their approach could fit your style. Also - it's not at all a top-down organization (the leaders are elected, for example) and as a result one congregation can vary significantly from another - often in relation to what minister they've hired.
posted by raedyn at 9:40 AM on August 19, 2005

These are deep waters, well - fools rush in.

I attend church, a fringe protestant denomination (mcc) and I believe about half of it. Does that make me a hypocrite? Probably. My awareness/discovery of God was also a private ephiphany and I've learned that these are almost always different from person to person. I then spent a lot of time and effort in academic study of religion to try and figure out what I had seen. In the end the quest led me back home, to the church next door.

Within the church there are a broad spectrum of beliefs and experiences. The reason we are all there is to worship, pure and simple. For each of us our beliefs encourage us to positively do something, give money, sing, generally spend some time being positive about the world and nice to each other. It's hard to beat and I recommend it. Like most Protestant denominations we don't ask too many questions about exactly what you believe, you're free not to join in any part if it offends you and the language is self-conciously inclusive (as befits a church born out of the LGBT community). It's not a peer group, it doesn't need to be.

The Perennial Philosophy is very attractive, you can choose the flavours that appeal to you artistically - from Plato to Huxley to Sufism - and in the end find a home within Christianity. You might guess that I was brought up a Christian and it's hard to escape that upbringing, although much of it can seem absolutely ridiculous at times, no other religion has quite the breadth - from Ayahuasca fuelled Santo Daime to the dusty corridors of the Union Theological Seminary - from Christ to Paul to Augustine to Aquinas. Is it true? The bottom line is that no-one really knows, I fear that we stumble around in near darkness, but within that darkness it's possible to find comfort in and ultimately respect for, the faith of each other.
posted by grahamwell at 9:45 AM on August 19, 2005

Zakdaddy: I'm in a similar place as yours, and haven't found such a peer group. I think such a community is important, but I have my doubts as to whether it exists today. I've been going along, currently content to look for individuals and such, rather than trying to find a larger group.

My father is also in a similar place, and has spent the last ??(20-30ish?) years of his life looking for peer groups. He's found several, in the collective writings of the early christians, the early quakers, etc. The groups are long dead, but their writings preserve some of the benefits of the sort of community group you're looking for (multiple, different perspectives on the same sort of religious epiphany you've had, for example). I would refer you to his books, but they're not published yet, so I can instead refer you to his website, which has contact details:
http://www.renaissanceofhope.org
posted by sirion at 9:46 AM on August 19, 2005

See if there is a Friends (aka Quaker) meeting near you. Give it a try. They have no dogma, and (some of) the meetings consist of silence and sporadic spiritual sharing. I was pleasantly astonished by my local group.
posted by goethean at 9:56 AM on August 19, 2005

Would a comparative religions course be at all useful, or is an academic approach the wrong road to take? Do I really need a peer group? Should a personal relationship with God be enough? What do I teach my children?

Great questions. And the kinds that require more answers before they can be answered. For example, Should a personal relationship with God be enough?: Enough for what? What's your goal? To "know God better"? To "be a better person"? To raise "God-fearing kids"? Your motives for this will help you to direct your focus.

Re: the "comparative religions course" route, I'd say that probably wouldn't be terrifically helpful. For one, you've got a wide range of faiths in your background, and it'd be hard to find a course that'd adequately cover that. Even more than that, most religion courses will start off with "you could spend the rest of your life studying this one sect of this one faith, and you'd only begin to comprehend what it entails." Which, although true, isn't in the least bit helpful.

Because all of the faiths you noted (except for the "born again Native American") are various flavors of Christianity, I seriously recommend Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. He's remarkably analytical, and he doesn't push one denomination (or even Protestantism vs. Catholic vs. Orthodox) over another. He's trying to get past "Christianity and politics" or "Christianity and social movements" or "Christianity and _____________" to see what the root of Christianity is. (What is "mere" Christianity?) He doesn't begin (at least in the argument within MC) with an assumption of Jesus as God, or even as God as a knowable force. So I'd really encourage you to check that out.

In terms of a "peer group," I would say that it's very very hard to make progress towards any goal without the support of a community. I would be dead in the water without the love and support of my church.

On the other hand ... I would also say that, in addition to the advice you get here, to take some time away from everything, to have a personal retreat, and to pray for guidance and insight. Not that you're looking to start a new religion, but the major watershed moments of the world's religions happened during moments of retreat and reflection.

on preview: A couple of people have mentioned Unitarian Universalists. I recognize this example is from ONE visit to ONE UU church, but it was pretty unsettling: Part of the service was the standard "collections" bit. That's fine. Whatever. But they had the choir come out front, and they rewrote a hymn. Everywhere where the hymn praised God for being glorious or powerful or mighty or worthy of praise, they replaced the word "God" with the word "cash." So it yielded something to the effect of "Cash, you are wonderful; Cash, you are why I live; Cash, you are my Savior; Cash, you bring meaning to my life." Obviously, YMMV, but it was ... what's a good word ... vomitous(?).
posted by Alt F4 at 10:01 AM on August 19, 2005

Sorry. Re-reading, I noticed your beginning, with your father's family being Jewish. Didn't mean to gloss over that with the rec. for MC. I still think it's a great book, though, and would probably be helpful to you.
posted by Alt F4 at 10:03 AM on August 19, 2005

I should have mentioned in the original (already-too-long) post that I have visited a couple of UU congregations, one in Massachusetts and one in East Tennessee. In both cases, I discovered many things to admire and many people who I truly liked and respected, but ... As with many things spiritual or religious, language fails me. Perhaps the viewpoints or personal beliefs of the congregations were too diverse, which seems silly written down like this but it's the best I can do. Feh.

In any event, many thanks to everyone thus far for thoughtful, helpful answers. Please, keep 'em coming!
posted by ZakDaddy at 10:03 AM on August 19, 2005

You can always try the Belief-O-Matic to see what religions wind up around your line of thinking and go from there. Might help you narrow down the list to people who have the same ideas as you. I think my #1 match was with the abovementioned Quakers, which surprised me when I took it, as I didn't realize they were still around.

The site also gives you a decent brooooad overview of many religions as well.
posted by Moondoggie at 10:03 AM on August 19, 2005

Oh, and I can sympathize with the mixed background. My mom was Baptist, Dad was part Methodist and part Seventh Day Adventist (the people who started the Branch Davidians were kicked out of the church he went to as a child). I was raised relatively non-religiously other than when Dad gets that Bible Feeling. Wife's family is Catholic, she's one of the lapsed ones and we were married in a backyard.

Yeehaw.

Aside from a sparked Quaker interest, I mostly believe what I want to believe, and incorporate the best parts of the religions I find into my own beliefs. Just reading the Bible on my own was rather shocking/enlightening, so I've followed suit with other things that come my way. I've occasionally been known to ask for help from Papa Legba when the internet connection goes down at home.

"Papaaaa legbaaa... Come and open the gates..."
posted by Moondoggie at 10:09 AM on August 19, 2005

Oh, and here's an older question with many many suggestions as well.
posted by Moondoggie at 10:10 AM on August 19, 2005

Help me find God.

He's right over there.

No seriously, UU is all good, but if you go for more of the Jesus stuff maybe try out the Disciples of Christ or the United Church of Christ (as opposed to the just plain Church of Christ, which would pretty much be the opposite).
posted by Pollomacho at 10:11 AM on August 19, 2005

I recommend a book called Toward A Meaningful Life by Rabbi Simon Jacobson, who has compiled and edited and made accessible the thoughts of the late Lubavitcher Rebbe, Menachem M. Schneerson. This is thought more trhan it is "religion." Outward appearances notwithstanding, this is great stuff, and both restored and created my faith in Judaism. You need to understand Judaism to understand and even consider Judaism. Meaningfullife.com is Rabbi Jacobson's web site. Good luck.
posted by ParisParamus at 10:30 AM on August 19, 2005

Pollomacho, in many places, the 'plain' Church of Christ is trying to do the same things as the United Church of Christ (evangalize, help the poor, embrace everyone as Christ embraced everyond). Each Church of Christ is independent. There is no 'corporate' body that oversees Churches of Christ. Therefore generalizations about Churches of Christ may often be incorrect.
posted by tayknight at 10:33 AM on August 19, 2005

Pollomacho, that came off snarky and wasn't intended to be so. My apologies.
posted by tayknight at 10:36 AM on August 19, 2005

I guess I come from a similarly varied background - I'm married to a cradle Catholic & attend mass, but can't bring myself to convert - father went to U. of Chicago seminary & was pastor of Union Church of Guatemala City in the 1950's before getting Hodgkins & then became an Episcopal deacon on the way to ordination before he died after coming back to the states - my mother's parents were Southern Baptist missionaries in China in the 1920s, but I was raised in the Episcopal church.

I am similarly interested in learning more about Christian church history & theology, in part to help make an informed decision about what I think of Catholic catechism, and whether I have an informed basis for my reluctance to convert. My brother suggested I attend Education for Ministry classes, offered through the Episcopal church. He loved them. They're ecumenical & sound just like what I am looking for. You may want to check out your local area. They're not overly cheap, $340 for classes (one evening per week) which, if you stay the course, last 4 years. However, by the end of that you ought to know what you believe and why, at least as far as Christian church history & theology go. Its a group setting with informal discussion of outside reading materials. And no, despite the name, you don't have to be angling for the ministry to attend. My first class starts Aug. 29 - classes usually either start in Septemebr or in Winter. If you're interested, you should contact them now as not much time is left for the Fall classes.
posted by Pressed Rat at 10:45 AM on August 19, 2005

No problem, tayknight, I should not have generalized like that. It does seem in my own (limited) experience that I've found Churches of Christ to tend towards the conservative and more fundamentalist while the United Church of Christ tend towards the liberal, not that there is anything wrong with that. You are totally right that there is no universal, particularly in the Church of Christ.

I grew up in the south, TN and AL, so there the C of C tended certainly towards the right and that was my experience with them.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:01 AM on August 19, 2005

I know this isn't the blue, but here are some resources, some you'll know...

Beliefnet is pretty good (although what's with the advertising?), - definitely worth some time exploring.
Ship of Fools shows that some Christians retain their sense of humour.
LiveReal looks quirky and worth exploring. Found it when looking for that Rev. Lovejoy quote - Have you tried any of the other major religions Ned? They're all basically the same

I don't know if your interest extends to Philosophy, but on the off-chance, there's much profit to be had from a brief study of Plato and Schopenhauer; the former because of his enormous influence on Judaism, Christianity and Islam (and everything else, these are the forgotten scriptures of the West); the latter because of his attempt to pull the whole thing together with Eastern traditions in a way that is curiously compelling. In both cases, try to read the original works if you can, if they speak to you they will do so with a clarity that will astonish.
posted by grahamwell at 11:01 AM on August 19, 2005

"Do I really need a peer group? Should a personal relationship with God be enough? What do I teach my children?"

A personal relationship is a necessary foundation to any kind of true religious pursuit, but it's definitely enhanced by practicing with a community. Parker Palmer does a wonderful exposition on this in his book To Know as We Are Known. I recommend it.

As for which community/peer group... why not ask God? That's partly what the personal relationship is for, is to be guided and given insight by the divine.
posted by weston at 11:27 AM on August 19, 2005

Interesting question, and one that I was discussing tangentially yesterday. A lot of people choose the church they grew up in. A lot of people choose the church that has members of the class they perceive themselves to belong to, or wish to belong to. Many people seem to forge their own philosophy and beliefs on their own, and use a church as a community, not necessarily a rigid religious belief system.

You could start visiting churches and find one that seems like a good fit. The Belief-o-matic is pretty accurate, and would be a good start.
posted by theora55 at 12:28 PM on August 19, 2005

I'll also reccomend C. S. Lewis' Mere Christianity as a place to start. In fact, any of C. S. Lewis' books are good reading if you are trying to understand God's relationship to man.

I'm Christian, so I can only reccommend from that point of view. When I seek God I turn to the Bible. Try reading the N.T., specifically the Gospels.

Weston has a point too. Asking God is a great place to start. Jesus said in the Gospels that if we seek we will find, if we knock it shall be opened unto us, and if we ask it shall be given us.

Best Regards,
posted by walljm at 12:44 PM on August 19, 2005

You really want to find God? Skip the books and the groups and take up wilderness backpacking. Solo. As many days as you possibly can in one stretch. (Alright, maybe you'll need two books after all: a blank notebook and "The Complete Walker" by Colliin Fletcher.)

As for your children, try asking them to show God to you.

Try it.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:48 PM on August 19, 2005

To clarify on the children comment, it's been my experience that children have amazing lessons to teach about the enlightened life, if only we would listen. The lessons only come obliquely, though, and are much more profound and life-changing than one can possibly imagine.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:56 PM on August 19, 2005

It might help to write down everything you believe (and don't believe) about God based on your personal experiences and use that as a checklist when evaluating possible peer groups. Hell, you could even post it here and let the assembled wisdom of MeFi find you a match. If that fails, you may have to start your own religion.

Personally, I wish you'd revive the Muggletonians. They were gutsy and tolerant and the last one seems to have died "by the mid-twentieth century."
posted by languagehat at 1:06 PM on August 19, 2005

Buddism is the best in my opinion, no strict rules!
posted by spooksie at 3:53 PM on August 19, 2005

>and for the last 10 years I have been trying to find a ... peer group, for lack of a better phrase.

You're niche is probably something best described as a cult. Reference your epiphany and see what comes up. You sound like the personality type who would do well in a tightly knit cult.

It seems like you're really just answering your own question. You've decided that an experience you have *must* involve others in some fashion, but not the established religions which usually cater to people like you. Cult or Eastern religion (if youre a westerner).
posted by skallas at 6:32 PM on August 19, 2005

I'm surprised no one's suggested this yet: psychedelics. In all seriousness, I've known people who insisted that this was the best route to a personal experience with God.
posted by SPrintF at 7:36 PM on August 19, 2005

Try some Reformed temples, if it's community you're after. I don't think there's any one denomination in any faith that'll fulfill all your needs. A personal relationship with God is more than enough if it makes you happy. Teach your children to investigate for themselves. Most people take their own path anyway.
posted by amberglow at 10:16 PM on August 19, 2005

[warning] Christian perspective [/warning]
"Do I really need a peer group?"
--Yes. We're called to relationship and to serve other people. I too have found it difficult to find a worship place in which I feel entirely comfortable, so for me it helps to think about what I can bring to a house of worship rather than taking a consumerist stance, trying to comparison shop for the place that will best satisfy my desires. You may find that making a weekly committment to serve somebody--at a soup kitchen, say--will allow you to feel part of a community doing God's work, whoever God is.

Should a personal relationship with God be enough?
--Yes, in the sense that in my experience a personal relationship with God beats book-learning by a mile; No, in the sense that all sorts of nutjobs have thought they were having personal relationships with God--involving other people in our spiritual lives helps keep us honest. Maybe you could form a book group for seekers--get a reading list together (many great suggestions in this thread) and ask, seek, and knock together.

"What do I teach my children?"
--Saying grace is a great place to start, and asking for forgiveness when you're wrong. "Please" and "thank you" are wonderful prayers.
posted by pessoa at 10:15 AM on August 20, 2005

You might find Karen Armstrong really interesting. She's a theologian who used to be a nun, went through a journey, and eventually became a "freelance monotheist." She's written a number of books.
posted by callmejay at 8:19 PM on August 20, 2005