How do I stop being so negative and gossipy?

October 31, 2012 5:52 PM

I know that almost everyone has issues with negativity, gossip and drama but I believe it's becoming a dangerous habit - and sometimes scary tool - for me and I'd like to stop or at least better control my own behavior and contributions.

Try as I might to not get overly involved with things, I have an all-or-nothing personality and solid leadership qualities, so it's not enough for me to throw myself into activities 100%, but unfailingly the other people involved in activities quickly put me in charge of things. (And naturally, I can't say "no," because I'm 100% into this thing and I know I can make it better! Of course I'll help!) I bring this up because I think the easy answer to my question would be to just engage where it's rewarding and disengage elsewhere, but not only is it difficult for me to do that, but in the right situation, I love this passionate quality about myself and not only has it rewarded me in many ways, but it’s pretty much the core of my personality. I also enjoy being tapped to lead things and have been rewarded by leadership roles over and over.

The problem areas are not related to my career. I used to have gossip/negativity issues in the workplace but I’ve combated that by keeping communication really open, dealing with conflict immediately, and it seems to help that I work for a small company of about a dozen people – fewer personalities in the mix appears to result in less opportunity for conflict and drama. Oh, and everyone I work with is my age (mid-30s) or older – mature adults.

Where I really struggle is in hobby/social areas of my life. The key example right now is an activity I’m involved in that is very intensive – we meet several times a week, I met most of my closest friends through it (people I adore, and cutting them out is not an option) and I love absolutely love doing it. There are about 50 people involved and they span all ages – late teens to early 50s – so of course, the above-mentioned maturity level is not guaranteed. And in my usual fashion, I have taken on a couple of leadership roles but am absolutely not top dog.

The problem is when conflict arises. I jump to be negative, gossip viciously in the name of “venting” and can at times be positively Machiavellian in the way I process/use information I receive. I am so ashamed of my behavior but keep doing the same things over and over. Many times, the outcome is good (so I’m again rewarded!) but I still feel shitty about my role in how we got there.

I’ve tried applying the strategies that have been successful for me in professional settings but they fail miserably here. I’ve been stonewalled, I’ve witnessed tantrums and oh my, the internet-based passive aggression techniques of people in their early-20s. I guess the varied maturity levels, combined with the larger array of personalities, are thwarting my usual drama-avoiding strategies.

So over and over, I find myself, a woman in her mid-30s, dragged down to this terrible level.

That’s just an example – the activity is still far more good than bad or I would have quit already. It’s just a great example of what happens to me and I find it to be true in other areas of my life. I’m just too damn quick to resort to gossip and negativity, and I’m starting to dislike myself. Other people’s levels of negativity/gossip are okay with me – I just need help reigning in my own.

It never starts out as bashing on someone. It starts out with me and another person discussing a neutral situation, and then someone brings up a problem, and then it’s like I go into a fugue state and wake up half an hour later having said all kinds of negative things and ugh. Oh, I’m really, really obsessive too, so not only am I quick to be negative but then once I get there, the problem still exists so I just cannot let it go and it spirals down and down. I don’t want to trivialize real addictions by comparing them to my dumb problem but it’s kind of how this feels – I know it’s bad for me, I know it makes me feel bad, I know it could backfire but I just can’t seem to stop going back for more.

Humans are wired to gossip – I’m living proof – and then once we do gossip, valuable information is exchanged and friendship bonds are formed and the reward centers of the brain are buzzing. Those gratifying results are clear as day to me, and I don’t doubt that this is why I keep doing it. I just HATE IT, and I really hate how I seem to be unable to control it on my own. When I think about this part of myself I feel embarrassed and ashamed.

One sticky bit: I am a reporter by trade and need to keep myself available to all sorts of information streams. Quitting gossip cold turkey is not an option for me. I need people to feel they can confide in me, but I have to figure out how to do that outside of my professional life, without having to resort to the bond-forming benefits of gossip to get there.

I should also specify that if you met me, you wouldn't describe me as a mean or negative person. I work hard to be kind to people and am really patient and encouraging when others struggle. My friendships and my relationship are overall close and trusting and awesome, although I feel the fallout of my habit has driven some acquaintances away. I've also been described as annoyingly optimistic, so it's not that I have a generally negative worldview - I just keep falling into a bad habit.

Does anyone have any advice? I’m considering meditation classes and therapy – there’s a cost issue for therapy but if I decide that’s truly what will help me deal with this crappy part of myself, I’ll make it happen. I’d also love to hear any success stories from people who have combated similar issues. I’ve been googling my fingers off and all I can find is stuff about cutting drama queens from your life – I’m fine there. Just not sure how to more effectively curb these negative qualities in myself. If anyone wants to offer up advice but also feels embarrassed about having been a gossipy jerk, throwaway email is [e-mail]

posted by anonymous to human relations (23 answers total)

Must be my week to shill for Mindfulness in Plain English. The practice is well suited to somebody with obsessive tendencies, and moderating an attacking streak is almost certain to be one of its effects.

Takes a lot of work. Totally worth it.
posted by flabdablet at 6:06 PM on October 31, 2012 [5 favorites]

I think I am somewhat like you, and I've definitely had this problem. Here are a couple of things that have helped me:

* I used to believe that venting worked (and I vented a lot), but then I read Anger by Carol Tavris and learned that venting doesn't get rid of anger, it actually amplifies it. I made a conscious decision to try to vent less, and indeed over time I started being less mad less often.

* I started consciously trying to talk like I was a slightly better, more generous version of myself, on the theory that although it's hard to control what I think and feel, it's not that hard to control what I say. (I tried to follow the rule of thumb "never say anything you wouldn't want to read in the New York Times the next day" or "you wouldn't want your mom to hear you say.") After doing that for a while, what I say now seems to actually be influencing what I think and feel. In other words, I think I'm now a slightly better person, just by pretending for a while to be one.

* You really can back off the Machiavellian stuff. I used to be proud of my ability to get people to believe or do stuff (a power I used solely for good purposes, of course!), but I realized eventually that although I was good at it and I often got what I wanted, doing it made people trust me less. And ultimately that was a bad tradeoff. In the end, it turned out to be much more useful and effective for me to aim to achieve real solid trust and goodwill with people, rather than scurrying around trying to manipulate them.

Hope this is helpful. Good luck!
posted by Susan PG at 6:12 PM on October 31, 2012 [5 favorites]

You rationalize/excuse yourself several times in this post. For example:

"So over and over, I find myself, a woman in her mid-30s, dragged down to this terrible level."
False. You choose, of your own initiative, separate from whatever anyone else does, to do this terrible thing. You were not "dragged down", it was not something other people forced you into, it was something that you as an adult chose to do.

Humans are wired to gossip – I’m living proof – and then once we do gossip, valuable information is exchanged and friendship bonds are formed and the reward centers of the brain are buzzing.
This is not a "we" thing. This is a you thing. Many, many people do not feel this way. This is not a hallmark of humanity. This is not something everyone experiences. This is something that, again, separate from everyone else, you have chosen repeatedly to do. It may be an addiction now, but you need to recognize that this was not a biological imperative, this was the result of choices that you have made by yourself.

and then it’s like I go into a fugue state and wake up half an hour later having said all kinds of negative things and ugh.
This is false, or if it's true it's a serious medical problem. You are not no longer in control of yourself at this point, you are consciously and purposefully saying everything you're saying. You are consciously and purposefully being mean to other people.


Here is my best piece of advice for you: you do not need to deal with every piece of conflict immediately, like you discuss above. You do not need to deal with most minor conflict at all. You don't need to discuss it with anyone, most of the time. Something super serious that is ongoing and a definite problem? Sure, have a conversation about it. Something that happens once, or that doesn't affect anything but your mood, or that isn't important enough to bother changing? Let it go. Don't confront, don't complain about it to other people, don't respond if other people complain about it to you (Other person: "Man, didn't you notice Bob being a jerk then?" You: "Meh, I'm just worried about [this thing that I'm working on]").

Form bonds by talking about yourself and the person that you're talking to, and by sharing experiences. It may seem like you're forming bonds in your head, but for most of the people you are talking to, that is not what they are experiencing -- they are judging you and losing respect for you for what you are doing. They know -- or at least assume -- you are doing it to them too with someone else.

If it really does seem like an addiction, I suggest getting into therapy. It may help untangle the stuff in your head. But stop rationalizing this as having anything to do with what other people do, or completely outside your control (unless, again, it is, in which case that's a serious medical problem that you should address immediately), it's entirely on you.
posted by brainmouse at 6:30 PM on October 31, 2012 [31 favorites]

Imagine that you are being recorded at all times. It has the added benefit of being possibly true.
posted by pazazygeek at 6:38 PM on October 31, 2012 [4 favorites]

I'd like to second Susan PG's suggestion about talking like a better/nicer person. This is what I did when I wanted to change some of my own slightly deplorable behaviours. I made up a sort of awesome, calm, good natured, kind person with a lot of self control and made a conscious effort to pretend to be that imaginary person, to do things they would do. It didn't change my whole personality or anything, but I started to see the benefits pretty much right away, and years later, I still sometimes feel like it's an effort to (for example) not blurt out the first stupid thing I think of to ingratiate myself with other people, but overall I'm a lot more like my imaginary awesome person than I used to be.
posted by thylacinthine at 7:24 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]

I also enjoy being tapped to lead things and have been rewarded by leadership roles over and over.

You might ask yourself what putting yourself above other people as a leader, and your feelings of validation about it, says about your personality. I mean sure, there are all kinds of leaders, but the kind that would gossip viciously is likely a particular kind. Gossiping is putting yourself above other people, too. From a random person on the internet, I suspect you have very low self-esteem. You might not think you do, though.

I used to walk around all day with a scowl and a mean thought about every person I saw. But a couple times I was proven wrong, and I realized we can only *really* know a handful of other people in our lives. And all the rest of the people? We don't know them. We don't know what struggles they've faced, or heroic acts they've performed. This is what reminds me to be kinder. Try not to think you're better than anyone. It's a hard habit to get out of, but you can do it.
posted by Glinn at 7:52 PM on October 31, 2012 [1 favorite]

I cannot see the link between leadership and gossip. This seems like a flimsy (unconscious) justification for the latter.
posted by jojobobo at 8:43 PM on October 31, 2012 [5 favorites]

It seems like part of the problem is that you're ambivalent about your gossiping and negativity. On the one hand, you call it terrible behavior. You say that you're being a jerk and you hate it. But you also talk a lot about the benefits that you've accrued from acting this way, both personally and professionally.

It might be helpful to do a cost/benefit analysis of this behavior. Once you have the benefits list, maybe start brainstorming ways that you can accomplish the same ends without using these means. For example, you mention needing people to open up and trust you as a reporter. There are lots of ways to do this that don't involve you using negativity as a way to bond. I bet "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and other books in that genre would provide a lot of helpful tips for developing rapport without gossip and negativity, both in personal and professional settings.

You also mention having close friends in your hobby. Can you ask some of them to help you with accountability? To maybe give you a signal when you start being overly negative, or maybe help redirect the conversation in a more positive direction?
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 8:46 PM on October 31, 2012

The first thing I noticed about your post is that the beginning is all about what a leader you are, people are always putting you in charge of things, leadership is such strong a part of your personality.

It sounds like you are overcompensating for low self confidence by building up a vision of yourself as such a strong leader. It's funny, gossiping about others behind their backs is such a clear signal of insecurity and lack of confidence and not leadership.

Finally "then it’s like I go into a fugue state and wake up half an hour later having said all kinds of negative things and ugh" You do not go into a fugue state, you have 100% control over what you say. Stop rationalizing.

If you are really looking for tips to stop, I would try to pretend the person you are talking about is in the room and can hear what you are saying. I would also suggest working on your self-confidence.
posted by seesom at 8:48 PM on October 31, 2012 [5 favorites]

Something that also leapt out from your post was your emphasis on your leadership abilities and how often people put you in charge. I have to say that I'm a little skeptical that other people see you entirely as you see yourself. I've never really encountered anyone that is appointed to lead over and over again because they are so passionate, competent, and universally beloved that different groups of people recognize again and again that they should be put in charge. Your self-description also doesn't entirely jive with the gossiping and negative behavior you're trying to improve, which you mention has probably alienated some of your acquaintances in the past.

Reading your post, I pictured a type of person that I've encountered in just about every setting: high-strung, outspoken, sometimes critical of the way things are being done, always thinking that of course they can make it better!, often volunteering to take over projects because they want it done right and of course they can help, because they love it so much. These people are often put in charge because it's just not worth resisting them. I've been that person, and I've also had to deal with that person.

I've obviously never seen your leadership abilities, and I truly don't mean to imply that people nominate you for leadership roles because you're just so horrible that they acquiesce to you being in charge. But it sounds like being a leader is something you really enjoy and something that's a big part of your identity. Do you think that this behavior is something you're doing in a misguided attempt to maintain your status as leader? To discredit people whose ideas you don't agree with or who you think may also want to be leaders?
posted by Colonel_Chappy at 8:49 PM on October 31, 2012 [10 favorites]

On occasion I've been told that people look to me as a leader even though I don't seek that role. It's a combination of excitement and conviction, I believe, that creates this dynamic. I've also been told that I would be shocked how my visible emotional states affect people around me. If you act in a leadership role, you set the tenor for the group. The most successful outcomes have resulted when I work with the group to recenter energy on achieving mutual goals. Also, I keep my personal beefs between me, myself, and anybody I truly need to work stuff out with.

For any particular group situation, have confidants outside to whom you can express the frustrating parts of the group dynamics. Keep your interactions with the group transparent, mindful of the overall health of the group, and resist the temptation to vent to others in the thick of things. Don't cross the streams, ever.

Converse viewpoint: people who obtain information about peers and deploy it to other peers sow major discord and distrust. Blame for this blows back on gossipers. Wanting to know what is going on around us is human - exercising care in what we do with that information is what breeds trust and ability to lead.

TL;DR: find uninvolved, objective and trustworthy outlets to vent about stuff you need to talk through; be flattered when people want you to lead and respond with transparently fair treatment that promotes group's goals.
posted by SakuraK at 12:43 AM on November 1, 2012

Strong leaders do not gossip about people! Can you imagine Obama gossiping with one Cabinet member about a different Cabinet member? How about Jack Welch? I also find gossiping to be a decadent temptation (like eating cheesecake) but as I've become more of a leader, I stop myself because it goes against my principles of being a good leader.
posted by cheesecake at 1:31 AM on November 1, 2012

I think this question would be a lot easier to answer if you'd add a specific example or two, e.g. X happened, then I did Y and said Z. As it is, all we've got is your highly subjective generalizations and interpretations, which are not very useful given that your perspective is probably skewed in ways that are contributing to the problem you're having.
posted by jon1270 at 2:55 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]

Humans are wired to gossip – I’m living proof – and then once we do gossip, valuable information is exchanged and friendship bonds are formed and the reward centers of the brain are buzzing.

Gossiping is basically telling people stories, and exchanging those stories can help people bond like you said. But not all stories have to be mean, or mean-spirited. Tone matters. Framing matters. You don't have to stop talking to people entirely; you just have to quit raging about people.

Frankly, I'm not entirely convinced that regularly spewing hateful things about people in your social circle is a really good way to bond with people. I think you may be underestimating the negative effects that has. For example, I know a couple of people who consistently let themselves off the hook for some really nasty behavior and who excuse themselves for having a nasty temper because they say they can't control themselves. Even though all of that nasty behavior is purely verbal and not physical, I still feel very unsafe around all of them. And the problem with an adult saying, "It's not my fault! I just can't control [my temper/my tendency to rage about people/etc]!" is that the world is full of examples of other adults who have learned to control themselves and not just spew nasty things all over the place, so absent some kind of medical reason, I tend to be skeptical when an adult tries to explain that in their particular case it really isn't their fault.

To change your behavior, you're going to stop letting yourself off the hook. Tripping and falling on the sidewalk is something that "just happens." Ranting for half an hour about someone is not something that "just happens;" that is something that you are choosing to do. It might be really uncomfortable for you to look that fact square in the face, but I think you've got to accept your own agency in this before you can change.
posted by colfax at 3:31 AM on November 1, 2012

One more thought.

not sure how to more effectively curb these negative qualities in myself.

When you realize you've done it, apologize directly to the people you've treated badly. Every single time. Having to own up to it is likely to make it feel less rewarding.
posted by jon1270 at 4:58 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]

There is a difference between innocent gossip and malicious gossip. There is nothing wrong with saying, "Anne just got engaged last night. Her ring is beautiful," and "Last night at the kid's volleyball game Anne looked drunk to me, I'll bet that was vodka mixed in her Pepsi bottle." I always think if someone will gossip to me, they will gossip about me. I have absolutely no time of day for malicious gossips and they always seem to travel in packs.

Just remember when you point your finger at someone else you have three fingers pointing right back at you. Be kind. Karma can be a real bitch.
posted by sybarite09 at 5:34 AM on November 1, 2012

I used to get a lot of validation from being asked to take on leadership roles, too. I had to learn that I didn't want or need all of them. One of the things I'm proudest of is that I turned down a very prestigious leadership role in a particular organization because I recognized--when the people who were offereing it to me did not--that I wasn't actually ready for it. That was very hard for me because I liked the public recognition things like that got me. But it was a great learning experience.

I once contributed to someone changing gossipy behavior. These two friends of mine, a couple, who have a habit of negative gossip, were going on about a mutual acquaintance to me. One of them said, "you must think we're terrible people, talking like this," and I said, without thinking, "No, but it does make me wonder what you say about me when I'm not here."

Finally, in order to really stop negative gossip I had to stop doing it almost completely even in my most intimate relationships--I rarely even "vent" to my partner anymore about people--and I did, sort of semi-consciously, end up shifting my primary friendships to people who don't gossip. My friends now are so disinclined to negative gossip that I sometimes get frustrated with them! But they help me be the person I want to be.

Oh, post-finally: when I stopped gossiping, I found that I actually became a nicer person. I am less likely to notice negative things about people and more likely to see the positivies. Other things have contributed to this, but people actually comment on how cheery and positive I am. I was always well-liked; people like me even more now.
posted by not that girl at 7:38 AM on November 1, 2012

The gossip thing and the "leadership" thing, to me, seem connected because they are about power. Like others who've commented, I wonder how much you've overestimated the degree to which these things are thrust onto you. What would happen if you simply gave up the idea of connecting to people in terms of power and power inequality?
posted by BibiRose at 8:06 AM on November 1, 2012 [3 favorites]

Sometimes when I find myself falling in to negative judgyness I make myself Immediately counter with positive things. That guy at work who gets in everybody's way and then blames us when he hasn't finished his work? Also generous with those in need. If someone else bitches to you about one of these people, just say, "yeah, that can be really frustrating, but they're also [really passionate about the group, helpful with clean-up, Anything positive]. I feel better not just about everyone else, but about myself when I focus on the positive.
posted by ldthomps at 8:15 AM on November 1, 2012

Does anyone have any advice? I’m considering meditation classes and therapy – there’s a cost issue for therapy but if I decide that’s truly what will help me deal with this crappy part of myself, I’ll make it happen.

Therapy is kind of the only way I can think of to really effect decent, long-lasting change in yourself.

In the meantime, consider this:

As a younger MONSTER, I worked in a two-person department with a woman who was incredibly nice and sweet to me, and to the people who'd come by with questions, and then just as soon as they'd leave, she would have really, really awful things to say about them. Like, unbelievably so.

I had the uncomfortable realization that even though I'd have liked to believe she wasn't acting the same way towards me, she almost definitely was.

You may be rewarded in the short term by using information, but word gets around - eventually people will realize you can't be trusted. Remind yourself of that when you're about to start up. It won't fix everything but it might help until you can get into therapy.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:35 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]

One time I was telling a friend how I found a mutual acquaintance soooo attractive and on and on and oh, hey, look, said acquaintance is sitting two tables down in the same restaurant! I have no idea if they heard me, honestly I try not to think about it.

Always remember that the person you are talking about could potentially be right behind you. Or around the corner. Or outside that open window.

I also agree that gossip is not a sign of strong leadership, it's the opposite. "Loose lips sink ships." Having a leader that will gleefully stab me in the back because it sets off all their pleasure/reward centers? That's not someone I want to follow. If someone is gossiping about a third party to me, my first thought is always "I wonder what they say about me when I'm not around". Remember that when you indulge in this, you are not only potentially damaging your relationship with the person you are maligning, but also your perception to the person you are speaking to (even if they appear to be agreeing with you).

So, if being a strong leader is a part of your identity, gossiping is going to undermine that. If you want the people around you to view you as a potential leader, you can't gossip about or to them.

Humans are wired to gossip

I also disagree with this, at least to how it relates to your problem. We're wired to be interested in people, to form societies and be social. We're not wired to talk cruelly about people behind their backs. For every person who has a subscription to 10 celebrity rags, there's someone who can't stand them.
posted by Dynex at 8:36 AM on November 1, 2012 [1 favorite]

I actually think I understand what you mean about the "fugue state." Of course you don't mean literally. And I do think it's critical to "own" your behavior. But what I think others may be missing is that you mean that you get so caught up in the gossiping that the part of your brain that should say "stop! don't do this! this is wrong!" doesn't kick in until you've gone on and on for quite a while and "sated" the part of you that wants to gossip. That's how I sometimes feel about chocolate cake. I don't really have any answers to add - I think you're getting some good strategies above. Just wanted to chime in and say I think I understand.
posted by semacd at 9:40 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]

I have... solid leadership qualities

That's not exactly what I'm seeing here. I have a couple of questions:

• How are you getting tapped for leadership? Are the "top dogs" asking you to lead things, are you starting new initiatives yourself and recruiting people into them, or are people asking you to lead them?
• Is there a pattern of whom you're criticizing and backstabbing? How often is it the top dogs that you're being cruel to?

A dynamic I've seen a few times is that you'll have a largish group with likeable leaders, and just under them in the ol' primate hierarchy will be one or two folks who are fairly clever, deeply dedicated to the group, and operate as pretty nasty pieces of work on a regular basis. (And believe me, word gets around.) They may not be outright "kiss-up, kick-down" bullies, but their effective function is to enforce the stability of the social order through some kind of relational aggression. This works out great for the Top Dogs, who reward them with social goodies (such as leadership positions, though never the top ones) even though everybody knows that they've got mean streaks a mile wide.

It's a stable dynamic for a while, and it'll limp along for years, but it's a sick one. In the long run, the Mean Beta Dog is organizational poison. Sometimes the group dissolves because almost everybody's sick of being told that they're too big for their britches but nobody knows how to exclude Mean Dog. Sometimes the Top Dogs figure out that the Mean Dog is more trouble than he's worth and kick him out. This story does not end well for Mean Dog unless he transforms himself; he puts in a decade of service and winds up without much social capital.

If that's you, you've got a problem. You're not just getting dragged down by other people's immaturity. (In fact, it sounds to me like stonewalling and passive aggression may be basically reasonable though seriously non-optimal responses to you.) You're getting rewarded in all kinds of ways for your shitty behavior -- except, of course, that you're ashamed of yourself, which is also basically reasonable.

You say that you're already working hard to be kind to people. But obviously that's not working for you. I don't see how you're going to crack this one without the help of a therapist who can call you on your nonsense when you're being strategically vague or otherwise letting yourself off the hook. Meanwhile, I would urge you to seriously reconsider taking any leadership positions until you work this out.
posted by sculpin at 9:57 AM on November 1, 2012 [2 favorites]