Comments on: Is she in to me?

Question: Is she in to me?

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:19:39 -0800

Asking internet strangers if she's into me and for some advice if so.

I went to middle school with this girl and had a typical middle school crush on her then, though we weren't friends or anything at the time. We didn't see each other for 14 years, and eventually became facebook friends. We gradually interacted more on facebook as it became clear we had a lot in common. Then, about three weeks ago we "ran" a novelty 5k (Color Me Rad), which actually consisted of us walking most of the way, talking, and throwing colored corn starch at each other, then eating tacos and later both of us meeting up with other friends of mine to browse a local gallery walk. And we've been getting together whenever we can since then, staying up late talking, making long term plans for activities to do together, etc.

Great, right? These are my complications:

Underpinning all of these unknowns is that she wold probably be widely considered "out of my league." Beautiful, smart, brick house, awesome, interesting job, etc. I mean, I'm not Quasimodo over here or anything. I'm in good shape but average looking, intelligent on par with her, successful working in the arts, but seriously. While no one has used that term, it's been delicately acknowledged by a close friend of mine. This is the time to mention that I've mostly overcome occasionally severe depression over the past few years and almost certainly have lingering self-esteem issues.

We've been on something like 8 dates (if that's what they are), but haven't kissed or anything like that. There's been flirty arm/leg contact and all that, but that's it. A female friend of mine points out that not only is she the type that gets hit on lasciviously a lot (she does), and her field is extremely male dominated, which I know she's had to deal with before, so she may be cagey about moving very fast. I don't know. I will note that a couple of times we've sort of lingered at her car as we were parting ways and I think I was "supposed" to kiss her. I feel like this is a somewhat juvenile view of the situation.

We both moved back to this city recently and are both living with parents for now. We're both late 20's. I think you can imagine how this might be a complication.

As I write this I feel dumber for asking, but I'm not really very experienced with actual dating and I find myself constantly questioning everything. I'm trying very hard to adhere to the spirit of Shitmydadsays' advice, "That woman was sexy...Out of your league? Son. Let women figure out why they won't screw you, don't do it for them." Hopefully obviously, screwing isn't all I'm after here.

So, I'm all twitterpated and uncertain right now and I just want some outside perspective here. What do you think? What can I do to move forward and feel out the situation? A possibly important detail I forgot to include: I have initiated everything, and usually initiate texting conversations, but then, she's accepted every invitation.

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:24:03 -0800

You need to kiss her at the end of your next date.

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:26:06 -0800

Moving in for the kiss is the traditional next step.

By: amro

amro — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:26:19 -0800

You need to kiss her at the end of your next date.

Indeed. She is giving you all of the signals that she's interested. She is probably waiting for you to make the first move, as sexist as that sounds.

Don't decide for her who is in or out of her league.

By: Sara C.

Sara C. — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:26:26 -0800

Christ, dude, just kiss her.

Yes, you take a risk. She could pull away. She could give you an evil look and consider you a creep forever. It could ruin your friendship.

But it sounds to me like you have a better than average chance that she likes you.

It also sounds like you're into her, and you don't want to just be friends. So what if The Friendship Is Ruined? Is she the only person you know on the face of the planet or something?

I'm inclined to agree with Shitmydadsays.

By: hamandcheese

hamandcheese — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:26:42 -0800

Tell her how you feel. Ask her how she feels. Go from there.

By: mochapickle

mochapickle — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:26:49 -0800

"It's becoming difficult not to kiss you," you say.

By: vivid postcard

vivid postcard — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:27:26 -0800

I see no reason to not kiss her.
Or, if you are hesitant, especially since you never got clarification on whether these were dates, ask her to come out with you on another date. Use that word. When she does, follow the advice above and kiss her. Yay!

By: Ruthless Bunny

Ruthless Bunny — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:31:23 -0800

Dude, it sounds like you've got something charming going on there. Call her up and ask her out. On a date. A real date. Show up with a couple of flowers, pick up the check. Go in for a kiss at the end of the night.

Remember to tell her how awesome you think she is.

Trust me, if she's not on the same page, she'll let you know, and quick. But I suspect that she is, and this will just seal the deal.

Good Luck, you lucky stiff.

By: colfax

colfax — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:31:55 -0800

Please don't let your close friend decide for you whether or not this woman is out of your league. Please give the woman the chance to decide that for herself. Your close friend is not the one you're trying to get into a relationship with after all, right?

By: Lyn Never

Lyn Never — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:36:43 -0800

Open mouth, emit words.

She feels how she feels, asking her might mean you hear some news you don't like, but the answer already exists right now whether you ask or not.

It sounds like you guys are having a nice time, and maybe her wheels are as stuck as yours, but the problem is that if you both sit and spin without doing/saying anything about it, eventually somebody's going to get awkward and bail.

By: FAMOUS MONSTER

FAMOUS MONSTER — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:40:23 -0800

Underpinning all of these unknowns is that she wold probably be widely considered "out of my league." BeautWHAP

That sound is me, hitting you on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper. This newspaper - a copy of The Sunday Post, this week the Oor Wullie cartoon is particularly good and please don't ask why I have it when I'm not in Scotland - remains furled and in my hand and will again fly at your schnozz with pinpoint accuracy the next time you say someone is out of your league.

There are no leagues. There is what we like and what we don't. Do not put yourself down. The newspaper awaits if you do. You are a champeen, my merry friend. Be confident, and don't forget it.

While no one has used that term, it's been delicately acknowledged by a close friend of mine.

Here is what you say to your friend: "Screw you, pal. I'm awesome."

Is she into you? Probably. Really leaning towards yes here. Nothing's for certain but I know people and I've seen a lot and I'd say I quite like your chances. Between the flirty touching and the pausing at the car, yeah, I'm gonna say kiss her. The risk if I've guessed wrong is a minor bruising of the ego, but as we've discussed, you're awesome and you'd get over it in short order. You'll never know if you don't try.

At your next parting - or hell, the next time you're alone and the touching happens - allow your touch to linger. Look her in the eye. Say, "Um." Then kiss her, you fool.

By: UniversityNomad

UniversityNomad — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:42:54 -0800

A broader point: there really is no such thing as "leagues", as if people were divided up into these tacit fantasy football teams and could only scrimmage within their own. It doesn't exist. It's a high school myth, like "intellectual whores" and the "friend-zone". There are only people who don't like you, people who like you, and people who like LIKE you (who fancy you, as the Brits have it, much less confusingly). The world is full of individuals who interact with each other often in not predetermined ways, as least as far as your own romantic calculus would have it, and it's dangerous to be too prescriptive or rigidly predictive in advance about what others will do in this regard.

That is to say: make a move! The worst that will happen is that she will reject it, and you won't be boyfriend and girlfriend, which is exactly where you are now, and where you will stay if you don't make a move.

By: Alexdan4

Alexdan4 — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:43:46 -0800

"You know, sometimes all you need is twenty seconds of insane courage. Just literally twenty seconds of just embarrassing bravery"

You'll be disaapointed for a bit if she doesn't respond to the kiss; you'll regret it for the rest of your life if you never try.

By: discopolo

discopolo — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:45:13 -0800

I think she probably likes you as a friend. I say this because if there were enough romantic chemistry, she would have touched you a lot more and kissed you because she couldn't help it. I don't want to burst your bubble, but really attractive girls have a lot of options.

(Also, describing a girl as a brickhouse is sort of gross. Just stop at "beautiful" and "smart".)

By: discopolo

discopolo — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:48:41 -0800

Also, she might just want to be friends, because she wouldn't have left it up to you to initiate. She thinks you're nice, she may actually be too polite and friendly for you to gauge this.

Don't kiss her unless you've asked her out on a proper date and then she doesn't have to deal with the awkwardness of you having misread her.

By: discopolo

discopolo — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:50:55 -0800

One more thing that I really want to emphasize: It is really annoying to be suddenly kissed by someone you don't even like. It's a really unpleasant experience and you should keep your lips to yourself until she at least has a chance to say okay to a date.

By: thatone

thatone — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:51:37 -0800

"It's becoming difficult not to kiss you," you say.

This. It is hella sexy.

By: lunasol

lunasol — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:54:05 -0800

I say this because if there were enough romantic chemistry, she would have touched you a lot more and kissed you because she couldn't help it.

Not necessarily. Some people just aren't very touchy-feely.

OP, please just kiss her. FAMOUS MONSTER's last line has it.

By: Urtylug

Urtylug — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:55:11 -0800

Dude, you've been on 8 dates with her. She's interested. Just kiss her. Don't just dive in, move in slowly so she has a chance to pull away... but the main point is to Just. Kiss. Her.

By: 23skidoo

23skidoo — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:55:22 -0800

I say this because if there were enough romantic chemistry, she would have touched you a lot more and kissed you because she couldn't help it.

Anonymous clearly likes her as more than a friend, but he hasn't been able to make a move yet, so clearly "If Person A likes Person B, then Person A will try and make a move on Person B" isn't true.

Kiss her next time you guys hang out. Not every one needs an official date to begin thinking they like someone. You've hung out a lot one-on-one, you've mentioned lots of things that make you think that she likes you. It's not like you'd be kissing someone who has given you no signs that she likes you.

By: headnsouth

headnsouth — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:55:41 -0800

she may be cagey about moving very fast. I don't know.

Here's the thing: nowhere in your post do you say "I really like this woman and I want to kiss her." You say what society would think, you say what a friend thinks, and you speculate as to what the woman in question thinks.

The only way you will get what you want is by saying/acting on what you want. The only way you will find out what this woman wants is by asking her directly/taking action that will elicit a response.

By: UniversityNomad

UniversityNomad — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:56:32 -0800

Also, if there were to be leagues, they're primarily based on confidence rather than anything else. As my latest question suggests, confidence, decisiveness, and a particular idiosyncratically desirable presence are traits that make a man extremely attractive to me; a concentration on stereotypical "looks", especially fetishized as particular body parts, really doesn't do it. Judging by the thread, a significant proportion of women agree with me. Believing that you're confident and attractive is most of the way towards being there! I know from experience: as an undergrad, I went through a period when I had awful self-esteem, especially about my looks. I decided to subscribe to the "fake it until you make it" school of behavior, and it worked astonishingly. Surprising numbers of people will believe that you are attractive, fun, intelligent, and desirable, if that is how you present yourself.

One more tip. If you end up dating this girl, for the love of Pete, PLEASE don't say anything about thinking that you're out of her league, especially blurted out at the wrong time. A guy I was dating mumbled this mid-kiss (like, broke off the kiss to voice this, in disbelief), which really dampened the mood for me. Especially as up until that point I had felt that, of the two of us, I was clearly really the one getting the better end of the bargain, as far as our relationship was concerned. Begin with the assumption that you're attractive, fun, intelligent, and desirable - really believe it and own it - and go from there.

By: needs more cowbell

needs more cowbell — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:58:21 -0800

"It is really annoying to be suddenly kissed by someone you don't even like."

That is why a line like "It's becoming difficult not to kiss you" can be awesome, it's a way of getting consent without being clunky. See also: http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/01/rescripting-sex.html

By: commander biscuit

commander biscuit — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:01:04 -0800

A possibly important detail I forgot to include: I have initiated everything, and usually initiate texting conversations, but then, she's accepted every invitation.

So long as she generally accepts your invitations and responds to your texts and so forth, I wouldn't read much into this. There's a whole slew of dating advice that encourages women -- especially highly desirable women -- not to initiate as a method of weeding out guys with questionable intentions and keeping mystery alive. For a particularly extreme example of this, see the advice of dating coach Evan Marc Katz, who says his wife didn't contact him first once during their 18-month courtship.

By: the_bone

the_bone — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:02:24 -0800

"So, um, I've never been great at this part..." (Kiss her.)
"So, we should probably kiss now..." (Kiss her.)

I've found both of these phrases to be effective, if only to help me build up my own confidence in the moment.

By: sparklemotion

sparklemotion — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:03:58 -0800

Kiss the girl

Or, use the "it's getting hard not to kiss you" line. Either will put you out there, but nothing ventured nothing gained, right?

Good luck, we are all counting on you.

By: Namlit

Namlit — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:24:32 -0800

...considered "out of my league." Beautiful...

"Beautiful" is like with these modern cars, where you can't even see the hood from the inside any more, only the road in front and what moves on it.
Of course she isn't into her own beauty, she can't see it all the time. But she might very well be into your awesomeness.

actually I used "I think I'm going to kiss you" which worked fine for us

By: Sidhedevil

Sidhedevil — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:27:02 -0800

There are no leagues.

And either kiss, or ask to kiss. Whichever works best for you, and whichever you think would work best for you.

By: whimsicalnymph

whimsicalnymph — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:37:36 -0800

[I've fallen in love recently with a guy who told me I was out of his league. I told him, "Au contraire, you're the only person in my league."]

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT LEAGUE YOU ARE IN, MY FRIEND.

8 dates? Lingering by the car? Kiss her.

By: Countess Sandwich

Countess Sandwich — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:56:03 -0800

she would have touched you a lot more and kissed you because she couldn't help it. I don't want to burst your bubble, but really attractive girls have a lot of options.

Many many really attractive girls never make the first move. Why? Because they generally don't have to. Don't worry about this.

KISS HER. The lingering by the car is a classic sign. When I'm saying goodbye to my friends, or someone I am worried is going to try to kiss me and I don't want to have to rebuff, I hop right in that sucker and get out of town.

Make the move, my friend.

By: bunderful

bunderful — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:56:42 -0800

Holding eye contact without talking is a pretty good pre-kiss move. If she too stops talking, grins like an idiot, and moves closer ... It's smooch time!

By: DoubleLune

DoubleLune — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:04:36 -0800

Go for it. "Out of ones league" is, frankly, bullshit as people have different tastes. I have dated a guy or two who told me he considered me out of his league, and I'm just like, wtf, obviously I see something in you -- like, we have a great time together and you give me butterflies and shit. Don't miss your chance just because someone else doesn't think you have a shot.

Also, I try to go by the rule that's it's better to regret something you did than didn't do. If you don't make a move on her, you'll be wondering forever what "could have" happened.

By: Blasdelb

Blasdelb — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:08:14 -0800

"Underpinning all of these unknowns is that she wold probably be widely considered "out of my league." Beautiful, smart, brick house, awesome, interesting job, etc. I mean, I'm not Quasimodo over here or anything. I'm in good shape but average looking, intelligent on par with her, successful working in the arts, but seriously. While no one has used that term, it's been delicately acknowledged by a close friend of mine. This is the time to mention that I've mostly overcome occasionally severe depression over the past few years and almost certainly have lingering self-esteem issues."

There was a really beautiful bit of wisdom on the shitmydadsays twitter thing,

"Son. Let women figure out why they won't screw you, don't do it for them."

By: desjardins

desjardins — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:22:48 -0800

There's been flirty arm/leg contact and all that

Women don't do this with guys they're not interested in. Like, ever. Go back in time and kiss her yesterday.

By: Area Man

Area Man — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:30:49 -0800

Kiss her. (Reading this makes me want to travel back in time and goad the 25 year-old version of myself into action.)

By: LarryC

LarryC — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:38:38 -0800

I have been in your situation. Way out of my league. I finally worked up my nerve and kissed her.

We celebrated our 18th wedding anniversary last month.

By: Wordshore

Wordshore — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:59:17 -0800

This, by Lyn Never:

She feels how she feels, asking her might mean you hear some news you don't like, but the answer already exists right now whether you ask or not.

So, make a move. You're stuck in limbo until you do (and if this goes on to date 9, 10, 11, at some point she may start thinking "He's not that into me..." and look elsewhere). One thing; up to you, but could you report back here how it went, please?

By: bquarters

bquarters — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:59:31 -0800

Is it wrong to say this transition phase is usually helped out with a couple of drinks? Lowers anxiety that tiny bit and also gives you a tiny 'out' (or at least makes the awkwardness easier to handle) if she isn't into you. NOT DRUNK. Two drinks.

By: mochapickle

mochapickle — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:31:08 -0800

Yes, it is wrong to recommend drinking. Ugh.

By: Specklet

Specklet — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:35:51 -0800

Kiss her and then please let us know how it went!

By: jojobobo

jojobobo — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:21:17 -0800

Just as a counter-view: it's getting difficult not to kiss you, as a phrase, would make me gag. It sounds to me like something planned. Or scripted. For a rom-com. With actors I don't like. Obviously, to a lot of people it is utterly charming. Hopefully you have a sense of where the two of you fit there.
(As an alternative my vote is for an explicit date-ask.)

By: Admira

Admira — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 20:03:37 -0800

I agree with the majority... but how to actually overcome The Fear and do it... heres how I ended up (as an overweight average looking guy) married to a fantastic woman totally out of my league in every respect (which just proves there are no leagues except those you create):

When you sense that moment... walking home from dinner, or getting out of the car, when you sense it... at that point, I think of the Me Of Tomorrow - how annoyed will I be tomorrow that I didn't make a move, at least hold hands, or touch her shoulder or kiss her or SOMETHING...

Also, what have you got to loose? You go to hold her hands, or kiss her, she's not interested in you that way ... and you are where you are now, except you know where you stand. Its a win win situation, you win twice!

Good luck.

Largely paraphrased from my comment in this thread

By: anon4now

anon4now — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 23:26:30 -0800

>>"successful working in the arts"
as in you make art? if so then MAKE HER SOMETHING, and she will likely make the next move.

By: parrot_person

parrot_person — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 02:33:50 -0800

Yes, OP, you should pursue her. Get it over with, find out for sure if she likes you or not. But YES there are leagues (claiming there aren't doesn't change the reality*) and one of the attributes that places a man in a higher league is confidence. You need to display the confidence to kiss her.

* When do you ever see attractive, successful, socially adept people with poor, ugly, awkward people? People who are more closely matched are far more likely to date. Substitutions can be made (for example an ugly, rich man with a beautiful, poor girl) but it's usually fairly balanced.

By: anaelith

anaelith — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 04:11:03 -0800

I have been surprise (to me) kissed. It was (from my perspective) awkward and awful. Please don't do it!

Ask her out, using the word date.

By: BadMiker

BadMiker — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 05:16:43 -0800

This is so cute.

Thinking she is 'totally out of your league' is completely normal, and really just shows how awesome you think she is. This is not a reason for despair! This is a reason to show how awesome you are by

just kissing her.

(Actually that; "It's becoming difficult not to kiss you" is genius. I wish I'd thought of that. About 20 years ago.)

Things will work out. Good luck, be brave; "tis better to have tried... than to live life wondering what if"

By: Blasdelb

Blasdelb — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 05:21:06 -0800

A while ago I heard a line that a friend of mine used to ask out the person he has been dating for the last three years, I think it is exactly what you are looking for,

"Would you be interested in calling this dating?"

Of course when he asked me out he just asked, "So you want to fuck right?" Both were successful strategies so, as long as your approach falls somewhere between these two extremes I suspect you'll be fine. Good luck and report back!

By: endless_forms

endless_forms — Thu, 27 Sep 2012 14:28:39 -0800

"Can I kiss you?"

And speaking as a beautiful, brilliant, interesting, awesome woman, if I were hanging out with a guy the way she's hanging out with you, and he hadn't made things explicit yet, I'd probably just figure he wasn't that into me, because of my multitudinous failings as a human being, etc.

And if I knew that the guy had written me off, without even asking, because his "close friend" said I was "out of his league", I would really want to kick both of them. Hard.

And finally -- my husband thought I was out of his league when he first met me. I thought HE was out of MY league. This actually prevented us from getting together for a YEAR. IT WAS STUPID DON'T DO THAT.

By: Ragged Richard

Ragged Richard — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:08:06 -0800

Just kiss her.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Sun, 30 Sep 2012 17:18:31 -0800

From the OP:

Since people asked:

I had a few days to think about it, and the advice like, "She feels how she feels, asking her might mean you hear some news you don't like, but the answer already exists right now whether you ask or not," made sense to me, I resigned responsibility for the outcome to fate, and decided that it really didn't matter (within reason) what or how I did something or said something because it would be almost entirely colored by how she already felt about me. It turned out to be a very good thing that that's the case because i was still sort of a lummox.

She was out of town at the time of the writing of the question and got back last night in time to come out to a small house party with me. We had a good time and as the party broke up, I drove her the two blocks to her place. She asked if I was okay to drive home and did I need to stay the night. *wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more*

I'm either generally thickheaded or I was too preoccupied with what I was going to do to take that neon hint, so I said something like, "Oh yeah, I'm fine." And as she moved to get out of the car I blurted something like, "But, hey. I've been having a great time hanging out with you and I really like you. I think you're pretty amazing." And she looks a little confused and thanks me and says she likes me too. She still looked confused, so I paused and asked, "But not like, like that?" But, no, she said. Like, like that.

But then I was confused about why she was confused, and she was halfway out the door and so too far away to move in for the kiss, so I say, "Well, then... Can I kiss you?"

She says, "Yes! That's why I just invited you in!"

So I finally got it and was like, "Oh, right! Okay then. Yes, i would like to stay the night." I turned off the car, we laughed and went inside. I left her place around 5 today.

So, not the suave and efficient one liner, or even the ability to take a hint that I might've hoped for, but I couldn't care less right now. I made my feelings known, they were reciprocated, and I get to see her tomorrow.

Thanks AskMefits! I appreciate all of the advice, but the biggest factor was the unanimous kick in the pants that I needed to do something. It worked out!

By: Wordshore

Wordshore — Mon, 01 Oct 2012 09:12:27 -0800

The "Yay!" follow-up thread.