Woman or Man? Guess or Known quantity?
August 21, 2012 10:50 PM Subscribe
I am dating a guy because I am a dumbshit. Now I have met a wonderful girl. I don't know what to do.
I have been dating this guy for a while now. We broke up then got back together. He is completely devoted to me. He loves me with all his heart. We have discussed the fact I do not ever want to get married to him or have children with him and he still wants to be with me for now (his words). I do love him, but not enough for that. I hold reservations because of my lack of experience with women. I broke up with him for a short period of time and it was agony (for me as well as him). We got back together as a result. He began our relationship as a bit of a man-child but has made innumerable changes to himself and our interactions because he loves me and respects my complaints and wants us to be happy together. I appreciate this; he is night and day compared to who he used to be. He has worked hard and many people would not have the inner strength to work as hard on himself as he has. The fact he has done it for me is very humbling.
I met a girl. We connect closely and she's so smart and funny and gorgeous. I do not have illusions that she is The One. But I have never connected with another woman the way I have with her, and I am terrible when it comes to flirting with women so this is a big deal for me. She doesn't know I'm with a guy. He doesn't know I met her. Yes, I am a shitbird. This is very early on. Not even a proper date with her. Nothing physical. She wants me and has made it clear. I want her. I should break up with him, correct? If I don't then I should come clean to her? I can't convince myself to. The last time we broke up he was in so much pain I couldn't go through with it for long. He does make me happy. I have struggled with trust problems all my life and I know I can trust him. He is safe. Completely safe. It is nigh-impossible for me to trust people and believe they are safe; my perception of his "safety" should not be overlooked. But she is something I have never experienced before with a woman and have wanted since I accepted I was interested in women.
I am confused. I do not know what would be the best route here. I can trust him! But she represents the opportunity to finally establish a relationship with a woman and this is something I have wanted for over a decade. I cry when I think about leaving him. I ache thinking about giving her up. I feel like a silly child. How do I work through this?
(I am in therapy)
I have been dating this guy for a while now. We broke up then got back together. He is completely devoted to me. He loves me with all his heart. We have discussed the fact I do not ever want to get married to him or have children with him and he still wants to be with me for now (his words). I do love him, but not enough for that. I hold reservations because of my lack of experience with women. I broke up with him for a short period of time and it was agony (for me as well as him). We got back together as a result. He began our relationship as a bit of a man-child but has made innumerable changes to himself and our interactions because he loves me and respects my complaints and wants us to be happy together. I appreciate this; he is night and day compared to who he used to be. He has worked hard and many people would not have the inner strength to work as hard on himself as he has. The fact he has done it for me is very humbling.
I met a girl. We connect closely and she's so smart and funny and gorgeous. I do not have illusions that she is The One. But I have never connected with another woman the way I have with her, and I am terrible when it comes to flirting with women so this is a big deal for me. She doesn't know I'm with a guy. He doesn't know I met her. Yes, I am a shitbird. This is very early on. Not even a proper date with her. Nothing physical. She wants me and has made it clear. I want her. I should break up with him, correct? If I don't then I should come clean to her? I can't convince myself to. The last time we broke up he was in so much pain I couldn't go through with it for long. He does make me happy. I have struggled with trust problems all my life and I know I can trust him. He is safe. Completely safe. It is nigh-impossible for me to trust people and believe they are safe; my perception of his "safety" should not be overlooked. But she is something I have never experienced before with a woman and have wanted since I accepted I was interested in women.
I am confused. I do not know what would be the best route here. I can trust him! But she represents the opportunity to finally establish a relationship with a woman and this is something I have wanted for over a decade. I cry when I think about leaving him. I ache thinking about giving her up. I feel like a silly child. How do I work through this?
(I am in therapy)
As a man, I would have no problem at all if a girl I was in love with wanted to sleep with another woman on the side. After all, it's not like I could grow a set of female genitals to meet those needs, so her sleeping with a woman wouldn't undermine my role in the relationship in any way.
Granted, not every guy thinks the way I do, but some do. Before you break up with him purely on the assumption that he would have a problem with this, maybe you should at least ask him. There's a chance you might be able to have your cake and eat it too.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 11:12 PM on August 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
Granted, not every guy thinks the way I do, but some do. Before you break up with him purely on the assumption that he would have a problem with this, maybe you should at least ask him. There's a chance you might be able to have your cake and eat it too.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 11:12 PM on August 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
OK, I'm sorry if this isn't the same guy, but from your previous questions it looks like you've been thinking about breaking up with and trying to break up with this guy for, like, two years now.
So dump him. And for the love of god don't start dating the girl right away.
To dude: "I care for you deeply but it's time for us to move on blah blah blah" (Maybe someone else can help more with this one. I like my breakups short and sweet).
To girl: "You seem really cool but I'm currently ending a long and complicated relationship and I need to emotionally deal with that before I dive into something new. Maybe if you're still single in a few months?"
Then take a deep breath and pour yourself a fucking scotch, because what you just did wasn't easy but it was right.
posted by no regrets, coyote at 11:13 PM on August 21, 2012 [34 favorites]
So dump him. And for the love of god don't start dating the girl right away.
To dude: "I care for you deeply but it's time for us to move on blah blah blah" (Maybe someone else can help more with this one. I like my breakups short and sweet).
To girl: "You seem really cool but I'm currently ending a long and complicated relationship and I need to emotionally deal with that before I dive into something new. Maybe if you're still single in a few months?"
Then take a deep breath and pour yourself a fucking scotch, because what you just did wasn't easy but it was right.
posted by no regrets, coyote at 11:13 PM on August 21, 2012 [34 favorites]
Break up with him and hope that he finds someone that really wants to be with him, and only him, not just feels that he is "safe".
And do it before it goes any further with the new girl.
posted by caliban at 11:15 PM on August 21, 2012 [10 favorites]
And do it before it goes any further with the new girl.
posted by caliban at 11:15 PM on August 21, 2012 [10 favorites]
"On the side"?? Come on, guy.
Break up with that dude; you need a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
(Sorry, I'm kind of having a radical feminist phase atm)
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 11:17 PM on August 21, 2012 [12 favorites]
Break up with that dude; you need a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
(Sorry, I'm kind of having a radical feminist phase atm)
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 11:17 PM on August 21, 2012 [12 favorites]
It's been two months since your last post, which makes no mention of Dude. You need a non-exclusive relationship with Dude. I wouldn't phrase it as "I met someone else," just that the relationship is very new and you're not ready to be exclusive yet.
Once that's established, test the waters with Lady and see where things go. And, yes, you owe it to her to tell her that you're in a non-exclusive relationshiplet with someone else.
Frankly, from what you've told us here you seem way ahead of yourself. You talk here about marriage and being in love or not and people changing for each other and all this other stuff. You jump from talking about how nothing physical has happened with this woman to talking about how she is your best chance for a lesbian relationship. How on earth can you know that if you haven't even kissed her or been on a date?
Slow down, girl!
posted by Sara C. at 11:18 PM on August 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
Once that's established, test the waters with Lady and see where things go. And, yes, you owe it to her to tell her that you're in a non-exclusive relationshiplet with someone else.
Frankly, from what you've told us here you seem way ahead of yourself. You talk here about marriage and being in love or not and people changing for each other and all this other stuff. You jump from talking about how nothing physical has happened with this woman to talking about how she is your best chance for a lesbian relationship. How on earth can you know that if you haven't even kissed her or been on a date?
Slow down, girl!
posted by Sara C. at 11:18 PM on August 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
Also, you're not a dumb shit.
IANYTherapist, but negative self-talk, much?
posted by Sara C. at 11:22 PM on August 21, 2012 [7 favorites]
IANYTherapist, but negative self-talk, much?
posted by Sara C. at 11:22 PM on August 21, 2012 [7 favorites]
This guy is your security blanket. Being with him is nice and comfortable and safe, but it's preventing you from pursuing what you really want and living your dreams. It's scary, but you should cut him loose. This is a classic case of sliding versus deciding.
Plus, no matter how much it hurts him in the short term, he's probably better off without you in the long term so that he can find a woman who loves him and wants to marry him (assuming from your phrasing that's what he wants).
If you don't break up with this man and then go after the woman you've met, you'll always be kicking yourself and wondering "what if." And if things don't work out with the woman, whatever you do don't go running back to the man for comfort and safety, for your sake and for his.
posted by hazyjane at 11:34 PM on August 21, 2012 [9 favorites]
Plus, no matter how much it hurts him in the short term, he's probably better off without you in the long term so that he can find a woman who loves him and wants to marry him (assuming from your phrasing that's what he wants).
If you don't break up with this man and then go after the woman you've met, you'll always be kicking yourself and wondering "what if." And if things don't work out with the woman, whatever you do don't go running back to the man for comfort and safety, for your sake and for his.
posted by hazyjane at 11:34 PM on August 21, 2012 [9 favorites]
I know it is hard but you are not doing this guy any favors staying with him. He isn't okay with you not really being in love with him or ever marry him or have kids with him, he's in a desperate state of denial convincing himself that if he is just good enough you will come around.
In terms of all the work he's done on himself, oh no, what if he transformed himself into an acceptable adult companion to a heterosexual lady for nothing, whatever will he do with those life skills?
I'm sorry, not to be flip. Breaking up is hard to do but get real: people survive protracted, painful, adversarial divorces with people who they had children with who proceeded to, like, screw their best friends or spend the college savings on gambling and stuff. Your breakup is survivable for all parties.
Every single word you've written in this and the last linked mail is screaming I Need to Date Women. You've got to try. You might even consider opening your mind to the possibility that she might, in fact, be The One. I mean who knows, I just think it's weird that you're so swift to reject it even being possible almost as if the prospect, I don't know, terrifies you or something.
posted by nanojath at 11:44 PM on August 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
In terms of all the work he's done on himself, oh no, what if he transformed himself into an acceptable adult companion to a heterosexual lady for nothing, whatever will he do with those life skills?
I'm sorry, not to be flip. Breaking up is hard to do but get real: people survive protracted, painful, adversarial divorces with people who they had children with who proceeded to, like, screw their best friends or spend the college savings on gambling and stuff. Your breakup is survivable for all parties.
Every single word you've written in this and the last linked mail is screaming I Need to Date Women. You've got to try. You might even consider opening your mind to the possibility that she might, in fact, be The One. I mean who knows, I just think it's weird that you're so swift to reject it even being possible almost as if the prospect, I don't know, terrifies you or something.
posted by nanojath at 11:44 PM on August 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
Chase your dreams - see how it goes.
posted by heyjude at 12:30 AM on August 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by heyjude at 12:30 AM on August 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Should I stay or should I go, with the incentive being a pull towards the new and exciting rather than a push from the tired and boring? (Or the abusive, in genuinely awful relationships.)
But the main problem is trust. Core issue. You emphasize that your guy is safe. Completely safe. Take a minute. Is this what you would want your guy to describe as your main feature?
You want to be able to trust. But hon, you have to be trustworthy. Maybe your guy would be cool with you exploring on the side. Aren't you in a monogamous relationship? Maybe he wouldn't. We can't know how your guy would feel about this, you have to ask him. Maybe your girl is fine with you being in a committed relationship with someone else. Maybe she's counting on having that committed relationship with you.
Isn't this all about fear? You seem afraid to leave your guy, afraid to stay with him, afraid to explore things with your girl, afraid not to. It is scary. All of it. I know you're in therapy, could you focus on trying to figure out what the fear is masking? Because only you can know what it is you really want. Whatever that turns out to be, be trustworthy.
posted by likeso at 2:19 AM on August 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
But the main problem is trust. Core issue. You emphasize that your guy is safe. Completely safe. Take a minute. Is this what you would want your guy to describe as your main feature?
You want to be able to trust. But hon, you have to be trustworthy. Maybe your guy would be cool with you exploring on the side. Aren't you in a monogamous relationship? Maybe he wouldn't. We can't know how your guy would feel about this, you have to ask him. Maybe your girl is fine with you being in a committed relationship with someone else. Maybe she's counting on having that committed relationship with you.
Isn't this all about fear? You seem afraid to leave your guy, afraid to stay with him, afraid to explore things with your girl, afraid not to. It is scary. All of it. I know you're in therapy, could you focus on trying to figure out what the fear is masking? Because only you can know what it is you really want. Whatever that turns out to be, be trustworthy.
posted by likeso at 2:19 AM on August 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
As a man, I would have no problem at all if a girl I was in love with wanted to sleep with another woman on the side.
I don't think it works like that. If I was in the same situation as the OP, I wouldn't want to keep two relationships as I would feel guilty and find it difficult emotionally - if you aren't the polygamous type, it's not as simple as it looks on paper. If I was the woman here, I wouldn't want to limit myself to being someone's 'woman on the side', even if I didn't want anything serious. If I was the boyfriend, I don't think I'd feel comfortable with the woman I loved sleeping with anyone else, be they male or female, especially if I was desperate to change her mind about marriage and kids. It doesn't stop being unfaithfulness, or being difficult to cope with well, if the other lover has a vagina rather than a penis. This man sounds like someone who would see their girlfriend taking another lover extremely hard to cope with.
OP, you say he loves you, but you don't say that you love him. It seems you feel upset and guilty at the thought of ending it, and would miss the companionship aspect of the relationship. You got back together because 'he was in so much pain', but how did you feel about it? Are you settling because you've found someone who treats you well, despite not really wanting to be there like you do with the new woman?
posted by mippy at 2:35 AM on August 22, 2012 [5 favorites]
Honestly, remove the genders and it becomes much simpler:
You are currently with person A, who makes you feel safe and loved and whom you trust, but who you do not ever want to marry. You met person B, whom you have totally connected with and for whom (it sounds) you have fallen hard for despite not really knowing all that well. Do you stay with what you know, or do you throw caution to the winds and try something new?
I think likeso is right about this being a fear/trust issue. You fear what will happen if you leave someone you trust; but you won't ever find out if you can trust this new person, if you don't.
Best of luck.
posted by Xany at 4:35 AM on August 22, 2012 [12 favorites]
You are currently with person A, who makes you feel safe and loved and whom you trust, but who you do not ever want to marry. You met person B, whom you have totally connected with and for whom (it sounds) you have fallen hard for despite not really knowing all that well. Do you stay with what you know, or do you throw caution to the winds and try something new?
I think likeso is right about this being a fear/trust issue. You fear what will happen if you leave someone you trust; but you won't ever find out if you can trust this new person, if you don't.
Best of luck.
posted by Xany at 4:35 AM on August 22, 2012 [12 favorites]
I think you need to put your relationship and the potential relationship on hold until you figure yourself out. It's ok to be confused about what you want, but in the process you're kinda jerking people around from one extreme to another. I think the bi thing is a bit of a red herring here, because it seems there will always be something or someone that needs to be a little different. Identify the real issue and resolve it.
Assuming this is the same guy as your other posts, you felt he was not public enough and not invested enough in the relationship, so you broke up. He became more monogamous and public and you're back together.
But then after he took that big risk and commitment, you think you're never romantically interested in men and want to date women. But you don't leave the guy. A woman catches your eye, and suddenly you're in a whirl -- big plans and ideas, but you haven't even had a single date.
You are not doing this to purposely hurt other people, but they are getting hurt or will be hurt. So why not take a time-out and figure things out for yourself? Then pursue whatever is the right path, when you are really ready to reciprocate fully.
I think the thing that will be hardest about putting both on hold is that you are terrified that this is the only woman who will ever look your way. If you can control that fear (she's not the only one ever, really) then it will be easier. And what if he's The One? Or her? Or someone else you've not even met yet? No matter, the relationship will be stronger once you identify what you really want out of a relationship.
posted by Houstonian at 4:37 AM on August 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Assuming this is the same guy as your other posts, you felt he was not public enough and not invested enough in the relationship, so you broke up. He became more monogamous and public and you're back together.
But then after he took that big risk and commitment, you think you're never romantically interested in men and want to date women. But you don't leave the guy. A woman catches your eye, and suddenly you're in a whirl -- big plans and ideas, but you haven't even had a single date.
You are not doing this to purposely hurt other people, but they are getting hurt or will be hurt. So why not take a time-out and figure things out for yourself? Then pursue whatever is the right path, when you are really ready to reciprocate fully.
I think the thing that will be hardest about putting both on hold is that you are terrified that this is the only woman who will ever look your way. If you can control that fear (she's not the only one ever, really) then it will be easier. And what if he's The One? Or her? Or someone else you've not even met yet? No matter, the relationship will be stronger once you identify what you really want out of a relationship.
posted by Houstonian at 4:37 AM on August 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Stay with the guy. Sounds counterintuitive, but just being able to flirt with someone of the same sex is not enough. This is just a crush.
If a few months down the road you want to break up, do it, but it should be a completely prepared thing.
Much of your language describes you thinking of things with a lack of agency. You can do whatever you want, anyway you want to. It appears that what you really seek is a life where there are not a lot of painful consequences for you, her and him.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:22 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
If a few months down the road you want to break up, do it, but it should be a completely prepared thing.
Much of your language describes you thinking of things with a lack of agency. You can do whatever you want, anyway you want to. It appears that what you really seek is a life where there are not a lot of painful consequences for you, her and him.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:22 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you don't want to be with this guy long-term then I'm not sure why you'd stay with him now. Trust is big, but if you really do not consider him someone that you want to stay with in the future then I don't think you'll regret much if you leave him now. If you see yourself with women, and you want to date women, and at some point in your life you intend to date women, you probably would do best to break up with the guy and start dating women.
If you are considering that you might want this guy for a long-term partner then that makes it a lot harder. If that's the case, you might try to make it work, but if you really want to date women it is very likely that you'll end up breaking up anyway to date women.
posted by Polychrome at 5:34 AM on August 22, 2012
If you are considering that you might want this guy for a long-term partner then that makes it a lot harder. If that's the case, you might try to make it work, but if you really want to date women it is very likely that you'll end up breaking up anyway to date women.
posted by Polychrome at 5:34 AM on August 22, 2012
Yeah, the genders here are a red herring. The issue is that you are with someone who you are unsure you want to be with for the long term, and you are in danger of involving someone else in an ethically suspect situation. You should absolutely be talking about this with someone rather than acting on it without giving the other two people involved the benefit of the knowledge you have.
posted by OmieWise at 5:36 AM on August 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by OmieWise at 5:36 AM on August 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Uh, given the previous question cited, it sounds like OP actually is much more romantically attracted to women than to men, and treats her relationships with men like a crutch (previous askme mentioning that she doesn't have nearly the same flusterbation for men as for women, relationships with men tend to be short and they fall much harder for her, etc.) so I don't think this would be a case of "having a lady on the side, thereby non-threatening to the guy and thereby maybe even fulfilling some kind of fantasy for him," or even just waiting it out and getting over the crush will work.
It sounds like, if OP proceeds, this will be her first crack at the same-sex relationship she's been hoping for. That's...big.
OP, If your SO is aware of your longing for a same-sex relationship, he will likely (understandably) be worried about this development. Is that why you haven't told him yet that you've met this woman you're crazy about? He does know you've been pining for a relationship with a woman, right?
In situations like this, when the "right" way to deal with a person's heart is unclear, I personally like to Golden Rule it, so: Were you to be in a relationship with a woman you were madly in love with, for whom you'd grown and changed aspects of yourself, whom you'd been loving and trustworthy toward and wanted to marry, if you loved someone that much...how would you want to find out that, though she cared, she didn't feel for you as you did for her and had met someone else? Would you want it quick and clean and without warning? Would you want all the details and to hash things out?
I mean, absolutely take care of yourself, here, but also be honest with yourself: what do you really want? If you really want a relationship with a woman, and you already know you do not want the life with him that he wants with you, is it fair to hang on to a relationship with him, giving him hope he might someday change your mind? You talk a great deal about how much he loves you, how hard he's worked to change for you, and you called it "humbling" but continue to insist you don't think he's right for you. It sounds like your previously-cited pattern of having strong friend-feelings for men but not strong romantic ones.
You say you can really trust him. Can he trust you to play fair with him?
posted by OompaLoompa at 7:08 AM on August 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
It sounds like, if OP proceeds, this will be her first crack at the same-sex relationship she's been hoping for. That's...big.
OP, If your SO is aware of your longing for a same-sex relationship, he will likely (understandably) be worried about this development. Is that why you haven't told him yet that you've met this woman you're crazy about? He does know you've been pining for a relationship with a woman, right?
In situations like this, when the "right" way to deal with a person's heart is unclear, I personally like to Golden Rule it, so: Were you to be in a relationship with a woman you were madly in love with, for whom you'd grown and changed aspects of yourself, whom you'd been loving and trustworthy toward and wanted to marry, if you loved someone that much...how would you want to find out that, though she cared, she didn't feel for you as you did for her and had met someone else? Would you want it quick and clean and without warning? Would you want all the details and to hash things out?
I mean, absolutely take care of yourself, here, but also be honest with yourself: what do you really want? If you really want a relationship with a woman, and you already know you do not want the life with him that he wants with you, is it fair to hang on to a relationship with him, giving him hope he might someday change your mind? You talk a great deal about how much he loves you, how hard he's worked to change for you, and you called it "humbling" but continue to insist you don't think he's right for you. It sounds like your previously-cited pattern of having strong friend-feelings for men but not strong romantic ones.
You say you can really trust him. Can he trust you to play fair with him?
posted by OompaLoompa at 7:08 AM on August 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
I was more or less your bf, years ago (with all genders reversed).
You need to break up with him ASAP.
posted by randomnity at 7:20 AM on August 22, 2012
You need to break up with him ASAP.
posted by randomnity at 7:20 AM on August 22, 2012
The genders are irrelevant. I don't doubt that your boyfriend makes you happy, but he doesn't make you deliriously happy or anything; you're with him mostly because you feel like he deserves you - you feel like you owe him your company.
Meanwhile you met someone else who does in fact make you feel a little twitterpated, the way your boyfriend doesn't, and it's thrown you for a loop because it's such a contrast to how your boyfriend makes you feel (or, more accurate, how he doesn't).
The question of whether you should be with a woman or a man is not really one I can help you with, but I can tell you that you probably shouldn't be with this man. Happier times await the both of you, just not with each other.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:36 AM on August 22, 2012
Meanwhile you met someone else who does in fact make you feel a little twitterpated, the way your boyfriend doesn't, and it's thrown you for a loop because it's such a contrast to how your boyfriend makes you feel (or, more accurate, how he doesn't).
The question of whether you should be with a woman or a man is not really one I can help you with, but I can tell you that you probably shouldn't be with this man. Happier times await the both of you, just not with each other.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:36 AM on August 22, 2012
As a man, I would have no problem at all if a girl I was in love with wanted to sleep with another woman on the side.
As a man, I would have no problem at all if a girl I was in love with wanted to sleep with another woman on the side, provided it was clear that my SO was in love with me and committed to me for the medium- to long-term.
Don't do this to him. Deep down he's probably already very insecure about your relationship. Having a piece on the side would just exacerbate that.
OP, I've been in your shoes in relationships where I thought things were really good but my SO thought things were great. You need to shit or get off the pot with your man because he's not going to be the one to break it off.
posted by no regrets, coyote at 7:39 AM on August 22, 2012
As a man, I would have no problem at all if a girl I was in love with wanted to sleep with another woman on the side, provided it was clear that my SO was in love with me and committed to me for the medium- to long-term.
Don't do this to him. Deep down he's probably already very insecure about your relationship. Having a piece on the side would just exacerbate that.
OP, I've been in your shoes in relationships where I thought things were really good but my SO thought things were great. You need to shit or get off the pot with your man because he's not going to be the one to break it off.
posted by no regrets, coyote at 7:39 AM on August 22, 2012
You've got plenty of advice above I agree with (not DTMFA, but DTNiceGuyA). Here's some more advice, on a different topic.
Start some positive self-talk, right now. Seriously. You are running yourself down like a malicious, backstabbing false friend would! Start being the kind of friend who gives you praise and ego boosts when you most need it. Serious-serious. Do this.
You are sexy and desirable - to both sexes, obviously! You are fun to be with - obviously! Your needs and desires are perfectly natural and universal! Your worries are, too! You are a thoughtful, caring person - or else you wouldn't be making this post about trying to not hurt anyone's feelings.
Change those "you"s to "I", and say it out loud. And write some more. You deserve a friend like that. Be it. Sometimes friends cheer extra loud & hard, when times are hardest - it's OK if you feel like the praise is heavy. You can use some heavy praise, especially from your best friend. Be your best friend.
posted by IAmBroom at 8:06 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hey nonny nonny mouse: I am a dumbshit.Wow, that's a lot of self-hate! You poor thing!
I am terrible when it comes to flirting with women...
Yes, I am a shitbird.
I feel like a silly child.
Start some positive self-talk, right now. Seriously. You are running yourself down like a malicious, backstabbing false friend would! Start being the kind of friend who gives you praise and ego boosts when you most need it. Serious-serious. Do this.
You are sexy and desirable - to both sexes, obviously! You are fun to be with - obviously! Your needs and desires are perfectly natural and universal! Your worries are, too! You are a thoughtful, caring person - or else you wouldn't be making this post about trying to not hurt anyone's feelings.
Change those "you"s to "I", and say it out loud. And write some more. You deserve a friend like that. Be it. Sometimes friends cheer extra loud & hard, when times are hardest - it's OK if you feel like the praise is heavy. You can use some heavy praise, especially from your best friend. Be your best friend.
(I am in therapy)YAY! THAT is something a supportive friend would do for you: push you to get into therapy. Thank yourself for doing that brave, supportive act!
posted by IAmBroom at 8:06 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
I haven't read beyond the comment about sleeping with a girl on the side. Well, no shit sherlock - last time I checked that fell into the category of fantasy for quite a few men. Sheesh.
Any way... I see this:
You claim to have trust issues with people. Looking at this purely objectively I think that you don't trust yourself and that transfers to other people. IE: If you were in this persons shoes you'd not be trustworthy. Love, the real thing, is never safe. It's fraught with innumerable dangers around every corner because you're putting yourself out there. You're exposing your most tender bits. You have to give it as well as receive it. Sounds like you've done a lot of receiving.
Break up with the dude. Be honest with both of them. If she is willing to go forward with you (and let me be frank, not many lesbians I know would want to) then by all means proceed.
But you really, really need to get your crap together. Break up with the dude and be alone for a bit. Until you really know yourself you're going to continue to run roughshod over people's hearts.
posted by FlamingBore at 8:15 AM on August 22, 2012
Any way... I see this:
You claim to have trust issues with people. Looking at this purely objectively I think that you don't trust yourself and that transfers to other people. IE: If you were in this persons shoes you'd not be trustworthy. Love, the real thing, is never safe. It's fraught with innumerable dangers around every corner because you're putting yourself out there. You're exposing your most tender bits. You have to give it as well as receive it. Sounds like you've done a lot of receiving.
Break up with the dude. Be honest with both of them. If she is willing to go forward with you (and let me be frank, not many lesbians I know would want to) then by all means proceed.
But you really, really need to get your crap together. Break up with the dude and be alone for a bit. Until you really know yourself you're going to continue to run roughshod over people's hearts.
posted by FlamingBore at 8:15 AM on August 22, 2012
I think you need to break up with this guy and make it clear that you two should not get back together regardless of how much pain you're both in.
You say that you "love him, but not enough for that" and that's the reason why you should break up.
He deserves to be with someone that loves him without reservations or without a limit to love.
Whereas you deserve to be with someone that doesn't make you feel like you're settling. It seems to me that you're with this guy because you like him enough to be with him, but it also seems like you're in this current relationship because you're scared of the idea of never finding a woman that you have a special connection with and being alone.
End things between yourself and this guy because in the end it will be better for you two. Be completely honest with both of these people. Treat yourself kindly. Take things step by step.
posted by livinglearning at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2012
You say that you "love him, but not enough for that" and that's the reason why you should break up.
He deserves to be with someone that loves him without reservations or without a limit to love.
Whereas you deserve to be with someone that doesn't make you feel like you're settling. It seems to me that you're with this guy because you like him enough to be with him, but it also seems like you're in this current relationship because you're scared of the idea of never finding a woman that you have a special connection with and being alone.
End things between yourself and this guy because in the end it will be better for you two. Be completely honest with both of these people. Treat yourself kindly. Take things step by step.
posted by livinglearning at 8:28 AM on August 22, 2012
In my personal experience, guys dating bi-women don't mind them having sex with another woman. There's no reason to break up with this guy.
posted by w0mbat at 11:29 AM on August 22, 2012
posted by w0mbat at 11:29 AM on August 22, 2012
The last time we broke up he was in so much pain I couldn't go through with it for long.
This is not a reason to stay with someone, because it isn't about you.
I broke up with him for a short period of time and it was agony (for me...)
This is a reason to stay with someone, because it is about you.
So he has said that he wants you "for now", and you two are in agony about breaking up because "for now" is making you both extremely happy, but in the long term you have key differences that are likely dealbreakers. Okay, that's a situation that can be dealt with, and you do it in one of two ways:
Way #1: you split up, because you know there are key dealbreaker differences, and you know that you'll have to face the pain of breaking up over them sooner or later, so you might as well choose now.
Way #2: you stay together, committed to each other despite the dealbreakers, hoping that over time you'll both realize the dealbreakers really aren't, and "for now" is "forever."
Neither of these solutions involve the girl, because you have to resolve this with the boy first, and the girl is just noise. Of course, there is a third way that involves the girl:
Way #3: you split up, because you want to be in a relationship with this girl, and that desire is stronger than your commitment to this guy, so just suck it up and do it already.
The choice is up to you; way #2 is easiest -- I know this first-hand -- but easiest and best aren't necessarily the same thing. Way #3 is hardest, because you have to feel like a bad person, but you're actually not a bad person, because you're being up-front about it as soon as it has happened, rather than waiting and hoping the situation will somehow magically resolve itself without you having to make a choice (which is way #4, and looks a lot like way #2, so be careful about that.) Way #1 is the best choice, most likely, because being apart and free to be with the girl might make you realize that, well hell, in that window of time that you don't have either of them, you would actually rather have the boy. The risk, of course, is that he won't want you back.
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 11:33 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is not a reason to stay with someone, because it isn't about you.
I broke up with him for a short period of time and it was agony (for me...)
This is a reason to stay with someone, because it is about you.
So he has said that he wants you "for now", and you two are in agony about breaking up because "for now" is making you both extremely happy, but in the long term you have key differences that are likely dealbreakers. Okay, that's a situation that can be dealt with, and you do it in one of two ways:
Way #1: you split up, because you know there are key dealbreaker differences, and you know that you'll have to face the pain of breaking up over them sooner or later, so you might as well choose now.
Way #2: you stay together, committed to each other despite the dealbreakers, hoping that over time you'll both realize the dealbreakers really aren't, and "for now" is "forever."
Neither of these solutions involve the girl, because you have to resolve this with the boy first, and the girl is just noise. Of course, there is a third way that involves the girl:
Way #3: you split up, because you want to be in a relationship with this girl, and that desire is stronger than your commitment to this guy, so just suck it up and do it already.
The choice is up to you; way #2 is easiest -- I know this first-hand -- but easiest and best aren't necessarily the same thing. Way #3 is hardest, because you have to feel like a bad person, but you're actually not a bad person, because you're being up-front about it as soon as it has happened, rather than waiting and hoping the situation will somehow magically resolve itself without you having to make a choice (which is way #4, and looks a lot like way #2, so be careful about that.) Way #1 is the best choice, most likely, because being apart and free to be with the girl might make you realize that, well hell, in that window of time that you don't have either of them, you would actually rather have the boy. The risk, of course, is that he won't want you back.
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 11:33 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
In my personal experience, guys dating bi-women don't mind them having sex with another woman. There's no reason to break up with this guy.
Quick counterpoint: in my personal experience, this has never been true, and I include myself in that group.
posted by davejay at 11:34 AM on August 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
Quick counterpoint: in my personal experience, this has never been true, and I include myself in that group.
posted by davejay at 11:34 AM on August 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
As a bi woman who did poly and open relationships for years, either a relationship is open or it's not. Relationships that have a one-penis or one-vagina rule are generally pretty crap, and structured that way because the person insisting that theirs be the one penis or one vagina doesn't take their partner's same-sex relationships seriously.
If you want to have a serious relationship with this woman--and it sounds like you do--your boyfriend is unlikely to go for a transition to an open relationship where he's no longer the primary partner, given what you've said about his issues.
And if she identifies as lesbian, the likelihood that she'll want to be in a relationship with a woman who's currently with a male partner is slight.
So. I am on team break up with your boyfriend, take some space, and go slowly with the new woman. But if you do want to make a go at dating them both, I recommend Opening Up by Tristan Taormino as the best resource out there.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:38 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you want to have a serious relationship with this woman--and it sounds like you do--your boyfriend is unlikely to go for a transition to an open relationship where he's no longer the primary partner, given what you've said about his issues.
And if she identifies as lesbian, the likelihood that she'll want to be in a relationship with a woman who's currently with a male partner is slight.
So. I am on team break up with your boyfriend, take some space, and go slowly with the new woman. But if you do want to make a go at dating them both, I recommend Opening Up by Tristan Taormino as the best resource out there.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:38 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think there are some people who feel comfortable, when they're in a primary relationship with a partner, for that partner to have casual sex with same-sex partners.
The OP's bf doesn't sound like that, and it also sounds like what the OP wants is a primary relationship with the new woman. Even longtime poly folk often have trouble with being displaced from a primary to a secondary role. It's unlikely that would be OK with the OP's boyfriend just because the new relationship his girlfriend was way more excited about was with another woman.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:43 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
The OP's bf doesn't sound like that, and it also sounds like what the OP wants is a primary relationship with the new woman. Even longtime poly folk often have trouble with being displaced from a primary to a secondary role. It's unlikely that would be OK with the OP's boyfriend just because the new relationship his girlfriend was way more excited about was with another woman.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:43 AM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hi there,
I definitely feel your pain. You should follow your heart and feelings on this one.
It sounds like you're not really in love with this guy and have been trying to leave him for quite a while now. Staying with him just because he feels safe, trustworthy and you don't want to hurt him is not really doing either of you any good in the long run. I know if's not easy, but once you're out of the relationship, you'll both be free to pursue other romantic relationships. Ending it may help you live more guilt free existence since you know your feelings don't match his and perhaps never will. In time, you will find other people to trust but you need to open yourself up to the possibility of seeing someone else first. If the person doesn't feel safe, then they're not right for you and there's not reason to stick around. Because this guy is one of the only people you've ever felt safe around, perhaps you can remain friends on some level if he's willing. He may need a bit of space and time of course. In the meantime, you may want to reach out to friends, family or your therapist for safety or - better yet! - cultivate that safe and secure feeling within yourself.
Louise Hay's, 'You can Heal Yourself' is a really good book on self love if you feel you may benefit from that. I only mention this because it sounds like you may sometimes make decisions to protect the feelings of others over your own which I can relate to. I'm reading it now and find it very helpful in grounding myself in self-love so that I can feel secure in making the decisions that honor my true needs and desires first. Perhaps you may even want to think about what you get out of this relationship, why you have stayed, where you would be in 1 year if you stayed, where you could be in one year if you left. Try to focus more on positive possibilities than paralyzing yourself with fear of change. I'm sure that if things work out with this woman or not, you'd be happier if you left the current situation because you wont' feel so tormented by guilt and indecision.
With the lady friend, it sounds to me that this is something you've been wanting to try for quite some time and now you have a wonderful prospect. You don't need to feel that she's 'the one' in order to justify dating her or even leaving the guy. You sound very excited to have found a person who you connect so well with. I can tell you that this doesn't come around everyday and you don't want to sit around 5 years from now in the same dead-end relationship wondering 'what if' I would have gone on a date with that woman. My 62 year old aunt is a lesbian who married her male high school sweetheart 40 years ago. Because she's a fundamentalist Christian, her entire social circle is conservative Christian, feels she's too old now, etc, it's sad to think that she may never leave a marriage that they're both dissatisfied in to pursue someone she feels that magical spark with. Instead, she has an unfulfilling relationship that she has made herself feel stuck in & tells me (her lesbian niece) that she wishes she was born in my generation and had my freedom to date who I am attracted to. Now maybe you're not a lesbian and just a little lady-curious but I still think that you should allow yourself the freedom to date who you want. One of the simplest yet best pieces of advice I can give you is go with your feelings over practicality & trying to please others.
It makes me sad to hear people call themselves names like 'dumbshit' or minimizing their feelings by saying you feel like a 'silly child'. Perhaps you could benefit from cultivating a bit more compassion & love towards yourself. That book I mentioned is doing wonders for me in that arena!
You sound like a very sweet person, to the point of sacrificing your own wellbeing to protect his feelings. Just know that if you don't feel the same way about him, no matter how difficult it is, ending it is the right thing to do. Just follow that heart!
All the best to you. :-)
posted by Danah_78 at 3:40 PM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
I definitely feel your pain. You should follow your heart and feelings on this one.
It sounds like you're not really in love with this guy and have been trying to leave him for quite a while now. Staying with him just because he feels safe, trustworthy and you don't want to hurt him is not really doing either of you any good in the long run. I know if's not easy, but once you're out of the relationship, you'll both be free to pursue other romantic relationships. Ending it may help you live more guilt free existence since you know your feelings don't match his and perhaps never will. In time, you will find other people to trust but you need to open yourself up to the possibility of seeing someone else first. If the person doesn't feel safe, then they're not right for you and there's not reason to stick around. Because this guy is one of the only people you've ever felt safe around, perhaps you can remain friends on some level if he's willing. He may need a bit of space and time of course. In the meantime, you may want to reach out to friends, family or your therapist for safety or - better yet! - cultivate that safe and secure feeling within yourself.
Louise Hay's, 'You can Heal Yourself' is a really good book on self love if you feel you may benefit from that. I only mention this because it sounds like you may sometimes make decisions to protect the feelings of others over your own which I can relate to. I'm reading it now and find it very helpful in grounding myself in self-love so that I can feel secure in making the decisions that honor my true needs and desires first. Perhaps you may even want to think about what you get out of this relationship, why you have stayed, where you would be in 1 year if you stayed, where you could be in one year if you left. Try to focus more on positive possibilities than paralyzing yourself with fear of change. I'm sure that if things work out with this woman or not, you'd be happier if you left the current situation because you wont' feel so tormented by guilt and indecision.
With the lady friend, it sounds to me that this is something you've been wanting to try for quite some time and now you have a wonderful prospect. You don't need to feel that she's 'the one' in order to justify dating her or even leaving the guy. You sound very excited to have found a person who you connect so well with. I can tell you that this doesn't come around everyday and you don't want to sit around 5 years from now in the same dead-end relationship wondering 'what if' I would have gone on a date with that woman. My 62 year old aunt is a lesbian who married her male high school sweetheart 40 years ago. Because she's a fundamentalist Christian, her entire social circle is conservative Christian, feels she's too old now, etc, it's sad to think that she may never leave a marriage that they're both dissatisfied in to pursue someone she feels that magical spark with. Instead, she has an unfulfilling relationship that she has made herself feel stuck in & tells me (her lesbian niece) that she wishes she was born in my generation and had my freedom to date who I am attracted to. Now maybe you're not a lesbian and just a little lady-curious but I still think that you should allow yourself the freedom to date who you want. One of the simplest yet best pieces of advice I can give you is go with your feelings over practicality & trying to please others.
It makes me sad to hear people call themselves names like 'dumbshit' or minimizing their feelings by saying you feel like a 'silly child'. Perhaps you could benefit from cultivating a bit more compassion & love towards yourself. That book I mentioned is doing wonders for me in that arena!
You sound like a very sweet person, to the point of sacrificing your own wellbeing to protect his feelings. Just know that if you don't feel the same way about him, no matter how difficult it is, ending it is the right thing to do. Just follow that heart!
All the best to you. :-)
posted by Danah_78 at 3:40 PM on August 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
The truth is going to come out, one way or another. Come clean to them now and you may be able to have a relationship with one or both of them. Let them find out on their own and neither of them will trust you enough to have a healthy relationship.
Also, stop calling yourself names. Indulging in self-loathing isn't going to make what you're doing any better.
posted by rhythm and booze at 4:11 PM on August 22, 2012
Also, stop calling yourself names. Indulging in self-loathing isn't going to make what you're doing any better.
posted by rhythm and booze at 4:11 PM on August 22, 2012
Oh, dude, I have SO BEEN HERE, capital letters. Please memail me if you want additional advice or answers. Seriously.
You need to break up with him. Like tomorrow. I know you feel incredibly shittily guilty that he has done all this self-improvement for you, but it is poison for both of you every day that you stay in a relationship where one person is more into it.
If it were me, I'd be honest with the girl and say, "here is what's up and I really like you but I need (some amount of time) to process my breakup before I can consider dating". If she is cool, she will be OK with that.
(If it helps, I broke up with my guy and it sucked and I hated breaking his heart but I am so much better for it now and I know myself so much better. I don't feel like a silly child (not about relationships, anyway). It is so much better than the agony of limbo you are in.
(MeMail, for reals).
posted by nakedmolerats at 8:18 PM on August 22, 2012
You need to break up with him. Like tomorrow. I know you feel incredibly shittily guilty that he has done all this self-improvement for you, but it is poison for both of you every day that you stay in a relationship where one person is more into it.
If it were me, I'd be honest with the girl and say, "here is what's up and I really like you but I need (some amount of time) to process my breakup before I can consider dating". If she is cool, she will be OK with that.
(If it helps, I broke up with my guy and it sucked and I hated breaking his heart but I am so much better for it now and I know myself so much better. I don't feel like a silly child (not about relationships, anyway). It is so much better than the agony of limbo you are in.
(MeMail, for reals).
posted by nakedmolerats at 8:18 PM on August 22, 2012
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