She won't eat green eggs and ham.
August 18, 2012 9:12 PM Subscribe
Cat food: wet/dry beanplate version.
So I've been feeding my cat, The Grey Lady Jane Grey, FreshpetSelect, and up until recently I've been supplementing it with grain-free dry food for grazing/snacking.
She's slender, at 9.5 pounds, and has been meowing for food sometimes since we ran out of the last dry food I tried. I've tried feeding her smaller more frequent meals of wet food only, but she basically wants to know that there is food whenever she wants it.
The problem is, she doesn't like grain-free dry food. She pretty much ignored Before Grain, and she didn't much like the Taste of the Wild stuff, either.
I am looking for a solution. I'm willing to go as far as doing the Primal raw frozen formula thing, but I'm concerned that we don't have enough freezer space for it.
When I buy canned food (which I do to spice up meals a few times a week), I try to buy grain-free foods when possible. But it's frustrating to find weirdo shit in the cat foods I buy: this week it was Weruva chicken. Along with the shredded chicken and gravy, there were three peas. Jane left those peas precisely arranged on her plate, as if to say, "I do not eat these!"
So, I like the Freshpet in that (a) it's real chicken and shrimp and whitefish and salmon, and (b) it doesn't have much other crap in it. Really, it is the most filler-free cat food I ever saw.
Well, except for the high water content and average protein content, which is the reason I don't like the Freshpet so much. It's about 14 percent crude protein, which makes it seem like what I'm paying for is a lot of water. Then again, almost all the canned foods I've seen are only about 10 to 12 percent crude protein.
The thing is, the folks on the internet who talk about what to feed your cat have very strong opinions. "You must procure, on a monthly basis, thirty live mice for your cat to catch and eat. These mice should be free-range, raised without antibiotics and with Montessori education."
So I need some voices of reason. Here are the options I've come up with. Should I:
• Keep feeding the Freshpet and occasional canned food, and find a new dry food to leave out for grazing. If so, what dry food can I buy that is ... not terribly unhealthy, and also crunchy-yummy? (Innova Evo was bought out by Proctor and Gamble, so that's off the table. And I've heard people recommend Orijen, but is it tasty? And is it really healthy-ish? Is dry food just a bad terrible awful thing that must never ever be bought or fed, even as a supplement to an otherwise complete diet? Yes, I've read the things on the internet, but I don't know where to get Montessori-educated mice.)
• Switch to raw food, like everyone on the internet says to. How much room does a bag of Primal take up in the freezer? And what if Jane has to eat the same thing every day for a month, because I can only fit one bag? (I draw the line at buying a grinder. I will not expend more effort on cat food than I do on human food.)
• Just feed wet food, but mix it up as much as possible between brands. In which case, I've tried Before Grain by Merrick (okay), Best Feline Friend (okay), Weruva (hit or miss), Tiki Cat (okay-ish), and Wellness (she will not touch it). Do you have other wet recommendations?
We're already spending almost twenty bucks a week on cat food, so I have a feeling your suggestions will not be much more expensive and may even be less expensive!
So I've been feeding my cat, The Grey Lady Jane Grey, FreshpetSelect, and up until recently I've been supplementing it with grain-free dry food for grazing/snacking.
She's slender, at 9.5 pounds, and has been meowing for food sometimes since we ran out of the last dry food I tried. I've tried feeding her smaller more frequent meals of wet food only, but she basically wants to know that there is food whenever she wants it.
The problem is, she doesn't like grain-free dry food. She pretty much ignored Before Grain, and she didn't much like the Taste of the Wild stuff, either.
I am looking for a solution. I'm willing to go as far as doing the Primal raw frozen formula thing, but I'm concerned that we don't have enough freezer space for it.
When I buy canned food (which I do to spice up meals a few times a week), I try to buy grain-free foods when possible. But it's frustrating to find weirdo shit in the cat foods I buy: this week it was Weruva chicken. Along with the shredded chicken and gravy, there were three peas. Jane left those peas precisely arranged on her plate, as if to say, "I do not eat these!"
So, I like the Freshpet in that (a) it's real chicken and shrimp and whitefish and salmon, and (b) it doesn't have much other crap in it. Really, it is the most filler-free cat food I ever saw.
Well, except for the high water content and average protein content, which is the reason I don't like the Freshpet so much. It's about 14 percent crude protein, which makes it seem like what I'm paying for is a lot of water. Then again, almost all the canned foods I've seen are only about 10 to 12 percent crude protein.
The thing is, the folks on the internet who talk about what to feed your cat have very strong opinions. "You must procure, on a monthly basis, thirty live mice for your cat to catch and eat. These mice should be free-range, raised without antibiotics and with Montessori education."
So I need some voices of reason. Here are the options I've come up with. Should I:
• Keep feeding the Freshpet and occasional canned food, and find a new dry food to leave out for grazing. If so, what dry food can I buy that is ... not terribly unhealthy, and also crunchy-yummy? (Innova Evo was bought out by Proctor and Gamble, so that's off the table. And I've heard people recommend Orijen, but is it tasty? And is it really healthy-ish? Is dry food just a bad terrible awful thing that must never ever be bought or fed, even as a supplement to an otherwise complete diet? Yes, I've read the things on the internet, but I don't know where to get Montessori-educated mice.)
• Switch to raw food, like everyone on the internet says to. How much room does a bag of Primal take up in the freezer? And what if Jane has to eat the same thing every day for a month, because I can only fit one bag? (I draw the line at buying a grinder. I will not expend more effort on cat food than I do on human food.)
• Just feed wet food, but mix it up as much as possible between brands. In which case, I've tried Before Grain by Merrick (okay), Best Feline Friend (okay), Weruva (hit or miss), Tiki Cat (okay-ish), and Wellness (she will not touch it). Do you have other wet recommendations?
We're already spending almost twenty bucks a week on cat food, so I have a feeling your suggestions will not be much more expensive and may even be less expensive!
I can't answer your specific questions, but if you haven't seen this, it's worth reading and may be of interest or help to you.
posted by Red Loop at 9:19 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Red Loop at 9:19 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My picky girl looooooves Orijen. She was excited to try it and still gets excited when her bowl is filled.
posted by batmonkey at 9:20 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by batmonkey at 9:20 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
All of this is really news to me. I have had several cats growing up, and have two now. They eat what I buy them. I am not a monster, I buy them the decent stuff. They have Science Diet wet food every morning and Science Diet dry food available all day.
Thats what they eat. Because that is what I buy. I don't ever remember any problems when they were kittens, and I wouldn't attribute anything you said to food issue stuff. In all reality they will eat what you buy them.
It's not like my cats are slaving away in the salt mines. They love their wet food in the morning, and if they even hear that dry food bag move, they are right there on top of it.
Just buy some decent food and feed it to them.
You control your cats, they do not control you.
posted by sanka at 9:23 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Thats what they eat. Because that is what I buy. I don't ever remember any problems when they were kittens, and I wouldn't attribute anything you said to food issue stuff. In all reality they will eat what you buy them.
It's not like my cats are slaving away in the salt mines. They love their wet food in the morning, and if they even hear that dry food bag move, they are right there on top of it.
Just buy some decent food and feed it to them.
You control your cats, they do not control you.
posted by sanka at 9:23 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't worry about the water content. Cats get most of their dietary water from their diet.
posted by bleep at 9:36 PM on August 18, 2012
posted by bleep at 9:36 PM on August 18, 2012
Best answer: You WANT the water, that is part of why canned food is preferable, cats who eat dry food consume substantially less water overall than cats who eat canned food, cats are supposed to get a large part of their water intake in their food.
Have you tried Evo as the dry component? If you must feed dry, I would keep trying different grain free (Orijen is good but isn't as low carb as Evo).
This isn't about the cats controlling anyone, this is about what we now know about how best to feed them to keep them healthy.
posted by biscotti at 9:37 PM on August 18, 2012 [11 favorites]
Have you tried Evo as the dry component? If you must feed dry, I would keep trying different grain free (Orijen is good but isn't as low carb as Evo).
This isn't about the cats controlling anyone, this is about what we now know about how best to feed them to keep them healthy.
posted by biscotti at 9:37 PM on August 18, 2012 [11 favorites]
Best answer: My cat also leaves the peas in his wet canned foot (Natural life--there seems to be precisely one pea in each can). However, this is such an astronomically small portion of his food--one, or even three peas, isn't what I'd call "filler." If the cats are otherwise happy with the food, why not just let them be picky picky about the peas?
Anyway, Natural Life is the only semi-decent cat food my cat has stuck with eating long term. He started turning up his nose at both Merrick and Wellness eventually. It's cheaper, too, though it does contain rice flour. But, you know, he eats it.
Except for those damned peas.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:50 PM on August 18, 2012
Anyway, Natural Life is the only semi-decent cat food my cat has stuck with eating long term. He started turning up his nose at both Merrick and Wellness eventually. It's cheaper, too, though it does contain rice flour. But, you know, he eats it.
Except for those damned peas.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:50 PM on August 18, 2012
Best answer: Yes, This blogger has excellent information on the best dry/wet cat foods out there. I personally feed my cat Natural Instinct (lots of moisture in cans). I recently stopped the dry food for the last 3 weeks and its been hell. He gets pissed when there isn't food to graze on... woke me up 5-6 times a night, wouldn't leave me alone. I started leaving small portions of the dry food out again and we are both happy.
posted by KogeLiz at 9:56 PM on August 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by KogeLiz at 9:56 PM on August 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also, we were able to get our cat to drink more after purchasing a cat water fountain. The stream-like noise attracts him to it.
posted by KogeLiz at 9:57 PM on August 18, 2012
posted by KogeLiz at 9:57 PM on August 18, 2012
Once you are stop feeding your cat grocery store rubbish, you are giving them 90% of the benefit of God's Most Perfect Catfood. So please recognise that we are making incremental improvements at exponential cost every time you move up a level of boutique feeding. Note also that you need the water; were you feeding your cat raw, 70% of the pilchards, chicken, etc she would consume would be water. She'll be fine eating the same thing for a month if that's what you want, but you can mix up the primal food in the freezer with actual raw food for variety and cost savings.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:58 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by DarlingBri at 9:58 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I transitioned my cats entirely away from dry food, and they adapted after a while, so stick with it if you would like to move them to wet or raw. I do think it is healthier, and I definitely notice the improvement in weight and coat. My vet comments on the lovely coat too.
I tried raw, my picky cats weren't wild about it, and it was too much work to make it myself (this was before it was available pre-packaged at regular stores). So I just went with all wet food, and I try to buy grain-free where possible. My particular strategy is to buy a bunch of different flavors from a brand that has many flavors, and see what was popular. Now I have a repeating order on cases of Nature's Variety cat food in 4 different flavors. I have one flavor on subscribe&save from amazon (free shipping as well as bulk/repeating order savings!) and the other three flavors on a repeating order from petflow.com.
posted by Joh at 10:00 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I tried raw, my picky cats weren't wild about it, and it was too much work to make it myself (this was before it was available pre-packaged at regular stores). So I just went with all wet food, and I try to buy grain-free where possible. My particular strategy is to buy a bunch of different flavors from a brand that has many flavors, and see what was popular. Now I have a repeating order on cases of Nature's Variety cat food in 4 different flavors. I have one flavor on subscribe&save from amazon (free shipping as well as bulk/repeating order savings!) and the other three flavors on a repeating order from petflow.com.
posted by Joh at 10:00 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Oh and try not to get too hung up on not having the perfect strategy, and find something that works for you and your cats. I have read enough to think that eating raw, wild mice would be ideal, but its not going to happen because my cat isn't interested. I would prefer that my cat eats totally grain-free, vegetable-free wet food, but she doesn't like the ones I have tried, so she gets a mixture of one with no-grain, but some vegetables, and one that's low-grain with vegetables. The vegetables aren't actually harming her, they are just stupid human-pleasing additions that don't provide any benefit to my carnivore. She eats it, its not low-grade supermarket crap, so I am ok with that. We have found our compromise!
posted by Joh at 10:05 PM on August 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Joh at 10:05 PM on August 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am wondering if maybe you really need to feed your kitty a lot more than you are. For what it's worth, I don't follow the label on the cans of cat food that I feed my kitties because I think it WAY underestimates how much a cat is going to eat when that is all they are eating. Each of my cats eats 12 (!!!) ounces of wet food per day. That's twice what the cans recommend! We buy pallets of 6-ounce cans from Amazon and go through 4 per day to feed both cats. It is just enough food that my cats eat all of it and don't whine for more. I experimented with following the label's directions and cutting the amount of food in half per day, and my cats were back to whining for more food within an hour of feeding time.
Product recommendation: I feed my cats Natural Balance venison and green pea. Unlike the wet food you described, the peas are not whole-- they are mashed up in the food. My cats will not touch a whole pea but they LOVE them mashed up in their food, and it's apparently a great source of protein that cats would normally eat in the wild. It's NOT filler. Green peas are actually a common protein source in high-end limited ingredient cat food for cats with food allergies.
posted by joan_holloway at 10:25 PM on August 18, 2012
Product recommendation: I feed my cats Natural Balance venison and green pea. Unlike the wet food you described, the peas are not whole-- they are mashed up in the food. My cats will not touch a whole pea but they LOVE them mashed up in their food, and it's apparently a great source of protein that cats would normally eat in the wild. It's NOT filler. Green peas are actually a common protein source in high-end limited ingredient cat food for cats with food allergies.
posted by joan_holloway at 10:25 PM on August 18, 2012
I only feed my cats dry food. Taste of the Wild salmon. I used to feed them wet food but they are such wet food fiends I had to cut them off. All the yowling and clawing kept me up all night. They are in excellent health at age 1515 and 1.
The internet is sometimes a crazy making place
posted by cairnoflore at 10:26 PM on August 18, 2012
The internet is sometimes a crazy making place
posted by cairnoflore at 10:26 PM on August 18, 2012
Check with your vet as well because there can be some dental health issues with wet vs dry food.
posted by Drumhellz at 10:55 PM on August 18, 2012
posted by Drumhellz at 10:55 PM on August 18, 2012
Aren't there raw food options that parcel their frozen food out into portions before bagging it? I think the Primal cat food comes in 1oz bricks. When I fed my cats Primal I took out what I needed the night before, stuck it in the fridge, and it was defrosted by the next day. The only downside is I needed to warm it up a little in the microwave and that could be a pain.
Wet food is supposed to have a high moisture content--it reflects the high moisture content of a cat's natural prey. I've read cats don't have a strong thirst instinct the way dogs and people do so that's why it's preferable to give them wet food to insure they stay hydrated. Not to mention dry food isn't great for their teeth. Cats don't have grinding molars the way omnivores do and the result is pieces of dry foot can get stuck up in their teeth and cause dental issues.
Wet food gets expensive though. If you can't afford it, I've taken to mixing a little water in with my cats' dry food. It delivers a little more moisture, isn't as likely to get stuck in their teeth, and it makes 'em grumpy but they tolerate it.
posted by Anonymous at 11:53 PM on August 18, 2012
Wet food is supposed to have a high moisture content--it reflects the high moisture content of a cat's natural prey. I've read cats don't have a strong thirst instinct the way dogs and people do so that's why it's preferable to give them wet food to insure they stay hydrated. Not to mention dry food isn't great for their teeth. Cats don't have grinding molars the way omnivores do and the result is pieces of dry foot can get stuck up in their teeth and cause dental issues.
Wet food gets expensive though. If you can't afford it, I've taken to mixing a little water in with my cats' dry food. It delivers a little more moisture, isn't as likely to get stuck in their teeth, and it makes 'em grumpy but they tolerate it.
posted by Anonymous at 11:53 PM on August 18, 2012
Best answer: The Primal bags don't take up that much space. I could fit 3-4 at a time back when my guy ate that stuff, but I don't keep much (people) food in the freezer. Maybe portioning out the contents of the big Primal bag into smaller containers/ziplocs will enable you to utilize freezer space more efficiently.
Have you looked into any of the raw freeze-dried fod options that are out there nowadays? This is what my fella has been eating for the past year or so. (He somewhat abruptly started refusing to eat the Primal for whatever reason.) I've been feeding him Stella and Chewy's mostly, and I just discovered a couple of other options for raw food that don't need refrigeration, which is a lot more convenient than the frozen Primal.
Just a quick note about the post above -- I believe I read somewhere not to microwave raw food, as that cooks it and thus defeats the purpose. I have no idea if <10 seconds in the microwave will really make a difference, but I found that just mixing the food with a little warm (not too hot) tap heated it up enough.
posted by kitty teeth at 12:09 AM on August 19, 2012
Have you looked into any of the raw freeze-dried fod options that are out there nowadays? This is what my fella has been eating for the past year or so. (He somewhat abruptly started refusing to eat the Primal for whatever reason.) I've been feeding him Stella and Chewy's mostly, and I just discovered a couple of other options for raw food that don't need refrigeration, which is a lot more convenient than the frozen Primal.
Just a quick note about the post above -- I believe I read somewhere not to microwave raw food, as that cooks it and thus defeats the purpose. I have no idea if <10 seconds in the microwave will really make a difference, but I found that just mixing the food with a little warm (not too hot) tap heated it up enough.
posted by kitty teeth at 12:09 AM on August 19, 2012
has been meowing for food sometimes
That doesn't mean anything. They're just requests. Do our regular set. First tune. "Give Me Some Loving. " One, two- One, two, three, four.
posted by flabdablet at 3:48 AM on August 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
That doesn't mean anything. They're just requests. Do our regular set. First tune. "Give Me Some Loving. " One, two- One, two, three, four.
posted by flabdablet at 3:48 AM on August 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Worth a read for anyone with a cat: The Basics of Feline Nutrition.
posted by vers at 4:05 AM on August 19, 2012
posted by vers at 4:05 AM on August 19, 2012
Our cats get Orijen dry in the mornings and looooooove it, and Wellness canned at night. I find their pickiness has much more to do with the flavor than brand of food. Some Wellness varieties (i.e. anything that smells so gross it makes me want to gag) are major hits, others get left on the plate. I don't really worry too much if food gets left on the plate; they aren't gonna starve themselves and I know I'm putting out some dry Orijen the next morning that they can eat whenever. Kitty is 14 and Maddie is 4. Both are healthy; Kitty is slender while Maddie struggles with weight a little if we're not careful but is not currently overweight.
posted by misskaz at 9:39 AM on August 19, 2012
posted by misskaz at 9:39 AM on August 19, 2012
Response by poster: Just to clarify a few things:
• The reason I don't love the high water content of Freshpet is that I generally give Jane cat food soup -- I add a few tablespoons of water to her food and mix it up. She hates drinking water, so I sneak it into her food to ensure she's getting enough. Yes, we're looking into a fountain, but often hear from folks whose cats ignore them, and the cat food soup (plus available fresh water, of course) seems to keep her hydrated.
• Teeth: Back in November or so, TGLJG had tapeworm from eating the fleas she had when we took her in. A visit to the vet revealed she also had gingivitis, so we have been brushing her teeth religiously ever since. That vet also said to only feed Jane wet food, and actually recommended feeding her less than the label instructions. So TGLJG has great teeth now, and I'd like to keep it that way, which is one of the appealing things about raw food. If I can get her to the point where she's consistently gnawing on raw meaty bones, I'll know she's both getting enough calcium and using her teeth in a way that most canned food doesn't encourage. (Freshpet comes in chunks, so she does actually have to chew a bit. This is where, to me, Freshpet stands out from regular canned food.)
• Grazing: Jane will eat a bit of her food, leave her bowl for an hour or two, and come back and eat more. I get concerned with the fresh food sitting out for hours at a time that it won't be good for her. Since raw food encourages this sort of behavior (right?), I wonder if it might be a better fit for her natural eating style.
• Thanks for the links to idb's comment and catinfo.org -- I've read all that, and more, which is why I'm asking this question. I don't want TGLJG to go hungry, and I don't want her to lose weight because she's already thin, but I do want to feed her the best food available. It looks like the Nature's Variety raw Instinct formula comes in smaller packages than the Primal does, so that might be a start -- both are cheaper in the long-term than the Freshpet is. Maybe I should try a starter pack and see if Jane will tolerate it?
• Whatever we do with the food, it needs to be something we can easily procure from someone who will deliver it. This is super important. We are happy to do the best we can for our cat, but we're really, really seriously not going to spend hours prepping food for her.
posted by brina at 10:31 AM on August 19, 2012
• The reason I don't love the high water content of Freshpet is that I generally give Jane cat food soup -- I add a few tablespoons of water to her food and mix it up. She hates drinking water, so I sneak it into her food to ensure she's getting enough. Yes, we're looking into a fountain, but often hear from folks whose cats ignore them, and the cat food soup (plus available fresh water, of course) seems to keep her hydrated.
• Teeth: Back in November or so, TGLJG had tapeworm from eating the fleas she had when we took her in. A visit to the vet revealed she also had gingivitis, so we have been brushing her teeth religiously ever since. That vet also said to only feed Jane wet food, and actually recommended feeding her less than the label instructions. So TGLJG has great teeth now, and I'd like to keep it that way, which is one of the appealing things about raw food. If I can get her to the point where she's consistently gnawing on raw meaty bones, I'll know she's both getting enough calcium and using her teeth in a way that most canned food doesn't encourage. (Freshpet comes in chunks, so she does actually have to chew a bit. This is where, to me, Freshpet stands out from regular canned food.)
• Grazing: Jane will eat a bit of her food, leave her bowl for an hour or two, and come back and eat more. I get concerned with the fresh food sitting out for hours at a time that it won't be good for her. Since raw food encourages this sort of behavior (right?), I wonder if it might be a better fit for her natural eating style.
• Thanks for the links to idb's comment and catinfo.org -- I've read all that, and more, which is why I'm asking this question. I don't want TGLJG to go hungry, and I don't want her to lose weight because she's already thin, but I do want to feed her the best food available. It looks like the Nature's Variety raw Instinct formula comes in smaller packages than the Primal does, so that might be a start -- both are cheaper in the long-term than the Freshpet is. Maybe I should try a starter pack and see if Jane will tolerate it?
• Whatever we do with the food, it needs to be something we can easily procure from someone who will deliver it. This is super important. We are happy to do the best we can for our cat, but we're really, really seriously not going to spend hours prepping food for her.
posted by brina at 10:31 AM on August 19, 2012
I do dry food only (the Taste of the Wild one) for my cat. Of course I have a super easy cat. I have two water bowls, one in the dining room (where the food is) and one in the bedroom. My cat drinks primarily out of the bedroom one. I read somewhere that cats don't like to drink where they eat and it seems to be at least a little bit true.
What I'm trying to say is that dry food only will not harm your cat. Anyone who says differently is crazy. Your cat will be absolutely fine, just maybe put a water bowl in a different room too?
posted by magnetsphere at 12:14 PM on August 20, 2012
What I'm trying to say is that dry food only will not harm your cat. Anyone who says differently is crazy. Your cat will be absolutely fine, just maybe put a water bowl in a different room too?
posted by magnetsphere at 12:14 PM on August 20, 2012
Best answer: What I'm trying to say is that dry food only will not harm your cat. Anyone who says differently is crazy.
Actually, there are very good reasons based in the physiology and evolutionary history of cats that lead to the conclusion wet food is superior to dry food. It's a healthier dietary choice for the cat. If a human lives their whole life on McDonald's they can be just fine, but that doesn't mean a diet of whole foods and lots of veggies and lean protein wouldn't be better. It's only crazy if you consider science to be crazy.
posted by Anonymous at 7:10 PM on August 20, 2012
Actually, there are very good reasons based in the physiology and evolutionary history of cats that lead to the conclusion wet food is superior to dry food. It's a healthier dietary choice for the cat. If a human lives their whole life on McDonald's they can be just fine, but that doesn't mean a diet of whole foods and lots of veggies and lean protein wouldn't be better. It's only crazy if you consider science to be crazy.
posted by Anonymous at 7:10 PM on August 20, 2012
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posted by restless_nomad at 9:15 PM on August 18, 2012