What nootropics work?
August 15, 2012 11:59 AM Subscribe
How many users have experience with nootropics? The ones who do; what do you use/do?
I have been experimenting with using vitamins, supplements and nootropics in place of amphetamine(s) for management of ADD symptoms. Amphetamine is a prescription given to alleviate ADD symptoms. In my case, a couple of years of usage has led me to the conclusion that the negative effects of amphetamine outweigh the positive. Even though it has a profoundly positive effect on my mental state, the physical damage it does renders it useless. As a result I have an interest in finding other compounds, which do not necessarily have the same effect profile as amphetamine, that I can use to boost my abilities.
A number of compounds (caffeine, piracetam, Noopept, Huperzine A, vinpocetine) show promise, but when considering how light the impact some of these drugs have, one can see the difficulty in correctly attributing a drug to its effects. It takes a lot of separate experimenting and time to gain usable knowledge about a new supplement's effects, behaviors and durations. I also have an interest in "brain-building" activities for those who feel their cognition falls short of their abilities.
My question: Have any of you users ever experimented with nootropics, brain-building exercises, or other cognitively-beneficial activities? If so, what did you use, what worked best, what did not work at all? Did anything have the opposite effect? Also, do any of you consume more than 100mg caffeine daily? If so, what about this is beneficial to you?
Thanks very much!
I have been experimenting with using vitamins, supplements and nootropics in place of amphetamine(s) for management of ADD symptoms. Amphetamine is a prescription given to alleviate ADD symptoms. In my case, a couple of years of usage has led me to the conclusion that the negative effects of amphetamine outweigh the positive. Even though it has a profoundly positive effect on my mental state, the physical damage it does renders it useless. As a result I have an interest in finding other compounds, which do not necessarily have the same effect profile as amphetamine, that I can use to boost my abilities.
A number of compounds (caffeine, piracetam, Noopept, Huperzine A, vinpocetine) show promise, but when considering how light the impact some of these drugs have, one can see the difficulty in correctly attributing a drug to its effects. It takes a lot of separate experimenting and time to gain usable knowledge about a new supplement's effects, behaviors and durations. I also have an interest in "brain-building" activities for those who feel their cognition falls short of their abilities.
My question: Have any of you users ever experimented with nootropics, brain-building exercises, or other cognitively-beneficial activities? If so, what did you use, what worked best, what did not work at all? Did anything have the opposite effect? Also, do any of you consume more than 100mg caffeine daily? If so, what about this is beneficial to you?
Thanks very much!
Modafinil (Provigil) is used off-label to treat ADHD symptoms.
posted by griphus at 12:05 PM on August 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 12:05 PM on August 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Provigil is apparently Very Awesome and I curse my lactose intolerance that prevents me from taking it.
posted by elizardbits at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2012
posted by elizardbits at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2012
Whoops, forgot my cites and previouslies.
Part of the issue with supplements that I've read is that there are a myriad of issues in trying to treat that way.
1. Effacacy in the amount of measurable, asbsorbable ingredients that are in the supplements.
2. Variation of ingredients from brand to brand and batch to batch.
3. Less interaction cautions available.
More reading...
Here's a fairly reputable source that talks about caffeine and ADHD symptoms and trials in rats.
Personally, I consume between 0 and 200mg of caffeine (mostly pop). I "dry out" once in a while, either cold turkey or tapering off. I've not been diagnosed with ADD nor do I notice any specific alertness I can attribute to it; it doesn't vary much whether I'm using pop or not.
posted by tilde at 12:21 PM on August 15, 2012
Part of the issue with supplements that I've read is that there are a myriad of issues in trying to treat that way.
1. Effacacy in the amount of measurable, asbsorbable ingredients that are in the supplements.
2. Variation of ingredients from brand to brand and batch to batch.
3. Less interaction cautions available.
More reading...
Here's a fairly reputable source that talks about caffeine and ADHD symptoms and trials in rats.
Personally, I consume between 0 and 200mg of caffeine (mostly pop). I "dry out" once in a while, either cold turkey or tapering off. I've not been diagnosed with ADD nor do I notice any specific alertness I can attribute to it; it doesn't vary much whether I'm using pop or not.
posted by tilde at 12:21 PM on August 15, 2012
This is all anecdotal, but: I have taken piracetam, and did not notice much of a difference (though I probably took it for too short a time and too small a dose to have any real effect). I did notice less difficulty waking up and starting my day while I was taking it, whereas usually I'd need a couple of hours after I woke up to feel like I was functioning at my cognitive best. I also have friends who have reported cognitive benefits to using piracetam and other nootropics such as oxiracetam. One friend says that his mother, who suffers from a number of ailments including post-polio syndrome, reported better cognitive function and less fatigue when she was on a regularly scheduled dose of piracetam. As far as I know, none of the aforementioned friends used these nootropics to try to manage ADD/ADHD and most of them have stopped taking nootropics because their cost outweighed the perceived benefits.
posted by bedhead at 12:28 PM on August 15, 2012
posted by bedhead at 12:28 PM on August 15, 2012
Long time Adderall taker. Not sure what doses you're taking, but you might want to try sticking with Adderall, just taking a lot less. I've greatly reduced my dose from when I was younger and have found my happy place taking a pretty minimal dose once or twice a day.
Modafinil has worked pretty well for me, it's very much an understated Adderall (sans all the 'hey I'm on speed' stuff). My doctor wrote me a scrip for it, but my insurance wouldn't pay for it. Understandable given the (I'm not even making this up) $3000 bill for 30 pills. I hear you can buy Indian modafinil and armodafinil for a reasonable price on the internet.
I've tried Oxiracetam/Aniracetam and I think they were effective, but I haven't formed a real conclusion yet having only taken each once or twice.
posted by wrok at 1:16 PM on August 15, 2012
Modafinil has worked pretty well for me, it's very much an understated Adderall (sans all the 'hey I'm on speed' stuff). My doctor wrote me a scrip for it, but my insurance wouldn't pay for it. Understandable given the (I'm not even making this up) $3000 bill for 30 pills. I hear you can buy Indian modafinil and armodafinil for a reasonable price on the internet.
I've tried Oxiracetam/Aniracetam and I think they were effective, but I haven't formed a real conclusion yet having only taken each once or twice.
posted by wrok at 1:16 PM on August 15, 2012
Right now I'm on a trial run of Piracetam to see if I can benefi from its supposed anxiolytic properties. I suffer from very severe anxiety, and have reacted pretty badly to stimulants because of it (Adderall, Ritalin, Provigil, pretty much the whole constellation of ADD/ADHD/"ma'am your kid's brain is all janked up" drugs). So far the piracetam hasn't had much of a noticeable effect that couldn't more likely be the result of more strenuous exercise and better sleep habits, but I'm not really sure that I'm taking an effective dose, either.
posted by Merzbau at 1:30 PM on August 15, 2012
posted by Merzbau at 1:30 PM on August 15, 2012
Oh yeah, the caffeine question. Lots. Like, WAY too much, mostly in the form of green tea or regular iced tea. I'm positive it has a detrimental effect on my sleep schedule (after years of being in denial about it), but hell, it de-stresses me and it's relatively harmless compared to my other coping techniques so I don't keep track of it as well as I probably should.
posted by Merzbau at 1:35 PM on August 15, 2012
posted by Merzbau at 1:35 PM on August 15, 2012
This fellow has the largest collection of what I would call almost reliable information on the topic that I have seen on the internet.
posted by bukvich at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by bukvich at 1:43 PM on August 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I tried a combination of theanine, caffeine, bacopa monniera, sulbutiamine, and aniracetam. The only noticeable long-term effect I had was fairly subtle, and was limited to realizing after working on a spreadsheet for quite a while that I had an attention span and skimming ability far superior to any previous point. I tried breezing through a few essays to further test myself, and found my retention to be noticably better than before -- and this had included >10 years of university in an essay-laden discipline, where every attempt to read something at speed had resulted in a complete inability to remember a word of what I had just read.
I never figured out which of those supplements were doing the work, though.
posted by matlock expressway at 1:48 PM on August 15, 2012
I never figured out which of those supplements were doing the work, though.
posted by matlock expressway at 1:48 PM on August 15, 2012
Long time Adderall taker. Not sure what doses you're taking, but you might want to try sticking with Adderall, just taking a lot less. I've greatly reduced my dose from when I was younger and have found my happy place taking a pretty minimal dose once or twice a day.
I agree with this. I think the trap that doctors fall into when titrating doses for people is that when they veer in to the "too much" side of the dosing and the patient complains about sleepiness (because the amphetamine is affecting their quality of sleep), the doctor then adds MORE. Instead of considering sleep quality, they just have the patient in effect string themselves out on speed. This works for a while, but then the patient starts to suffer the side effects. But that's months later, so the doctor assumes it must be something else.
Also, if you are taking Vyvanse, consider switching to back to Adderall. I can't prove it, but my experience with Vyvanse was that it "built up" over time and gave me the same feeling you describe- the negatives outweighed the positives. I suspect there is a larger variance in how the lisdexamphetamine is metabolized in individuals than Shire would have us believe.
(On the ADHD forums, there are a few people who say that Desoxyn is a godsend for them. It is more potent, allegedly, so one can take less of it and still get the same neuro effects. But far fewer peripheral effects. YMMV.)
Besides that, the only thing that ever worked for me in the over the counter realm was a shitload of green tea and Sudafed. Or ephedrine. The side effects of these were worse than an equivalent amount of amphetamine. Unfortunately for your situation, amphetamine is one of the cleanest CNS stimulants available, side-effect wise.
Almost forgot: have you tried the methylphenidate drugs? There are all sorts of different formulations, including a patch that supposedly provides a nice even dose.
posted by gjc at 8:00 AM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I agree with this. I think the trap that doctors fall into when titrating doses for people is that when they veer in to the "too much" side of the dosing and the patient complains about sleepiness (because the amphetamine is affecting their quality of sleep), the doctor then adds MORE. Instead of considering sleep quality, they just have the patient in effect string themselves out on speed. This works for a while, but then the patient starts to suffer the side effects. But that's months later, so the doctor assumes it must be something else.
Also, if you are taking Vyvanse, consider switching to back to Adderall. I can't prove it, but my experience with Vyvanse was that it "built up" over time and gave me the same feeling you describe- the negatives outweighed the positives. I suspect there is a larger variance in how the lisdexamphetamine is metabolized in individuals than Shire would have us believe.
(On the ADHD forums, there are a few people who say that Desoxyn is a godsend for them. It is more potent, allegedly, so one can take less of it and still get the same neuro effects. But far fewer peripheral effects. YMMV.)
Besides that, the only thing that ever worked for me in the over the counter realm was a shitload of green tea and Sudafed. Or ephedrine. The side effects of these were worse than an equivalent amount of amphetamine. Unfortunately for your situation, amphetamine is one of the cleanest CNS stimulants available, side-effect wise.
Almost forgot: have you tried the methylphenidate drugs? There are all sorts of different formulations, including a patch that supposedly provides a nice even dose.
posted by gjc at 8:00 AM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, I find that it works much better for me to take a low dose of XR adderall than it does to take high doses that need to be retaken 2-3x a day.
posted by elizardbits at 12:03 PM on August 16, 2012
posted by elizardbits at 12:03 PM on August 16, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by tilde at 12:03 PM on August 15, 2012