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Is it possible to get through a hard time in a relationship?
August 8, 2012 3:19 PM   Subscribe

Tell me about how you worked through a difficult period of your relationship and had it turn out well.

My husband and I are going through an extremely difficult stretch of our marriage. Neither of us particularly wants to leave the other, but we are both questioning whether we *ought* to. We've been dealing with this for going on six months now, and it's been about that long since our relationship felt joyful -- which is long enough for both of us to question whether it ever can be again.

Basically, it's a combination of dealing with his severe and my mild mental health issues, and a fear we both have that we're "settling" -- we've both been in relationships with far more passion than he and I have ever had for each other, which we've long acknowledged. But we love each other deeply; we count each other as best friends; we each support and value the other's personal growth; when we put the effort in, our sex is good; we are building a really good life and enjoy raising our child together. We don't feel like couples counseling would help, because we communicate rather spectacularly well. But things have been REALLY hard for months, and we're exhausted and sad.

He's seeing a therapist; we can't really afford for both of us to, and my issues are significantly better than his. I'm working through "Feeling Good," as CBT has helped me in the past. We go running and eat well. Both of us suck at sleep.

Complications: I just had a miscarriage; we have a young child.
Other complication: Several of our friends' relationships of similar lengths (6-7 years) have fallen apart in the last month. These were people who everyone thought were doing well and were going to get married/stay together for a very long time. This is definitely skewing our perspectives.

We don't have many friends who have been together longer than we have, and we don't feel comfortable talking to any of our parents about this. What I want to know is: have you been through a period this difficult in a relationship and worked through it, to the ultimate betterment of the relationship? Is this even a possibility?

I'm looking mostly for personal stories. Obviously no one on Metafilter can decide for us whether our relationship is worth staying in. But, all our examples of people in long-long-term relationships are of people who really should split up (his parents), or have squashed their problems rather than addressing them (mine). Can you provide us with some positive examples? What resources helped you through your difficult time?
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (27 answers total) 51 users marked this as a favorite
 
My husband and I also went through a difficult period seven years into our marriage. There was a time where I spent months wondering if things would ever get any better. But we love each other, we stuck it out, and I dare to say that our trials have made our marriage even stronger. Feel free to MeMail if you wish to talk further or more in depth.
posted by melangell at 3:29 PM on August 8, 2012


But we love each other deeply; we count each other as best friends; we each support and value the other's personal growth; when we put the effort in, our sex is good; we are building a really good life and enjoy raising our child together.

Print that out and put it somewhere where you can read it all the time.
posted by The World Famous at 3:47 PM on August 8, 2012 [25 favorites]


My spouse and I went through a difficult period 2 years into our relationship. My spouse lied about some really big stuff. When I kinda sorta confronted what I thought might be a lie, he covered it up. And kept covering it up. And when it finally was exposed, it was messy, extremely painful, and seemed like it would probably be the end of us.

It wasn't. We've been together for 8-ish years now, and I can honestly say that each year gets better - and each successive year is the BEST year that I've had in a relationship. I'm extraordinarily grateful that we were both willing to do the work needed to get us past what happened. I'm really glad that I was willing to give it another chance, because for a while I really didn't want to.

What I did was, after thinking and crying about what happened for a while, decided I wanted it to work. And I decided that if he was willing to go to counseling and work on his stuff (and our stuff), that I had to be willing to put it behind me, not mention it outside of the counselor's office, and treat him with absolute trust and love.

He agreed to go to counseling (both private and couple's). So that was when the hard part began - it is REALLY hard to treat someone with trust and love after that trust has been violated. It took a lot of practice and work - doing something I call "acting as if" on a daily basis until it became a habit and increasingly felt authentic. And I wasn't perfect by any stretch. But he was patient with my lapses, and I practiced hard, and he (and we) did a lot of hard work in therapy.

And we emerged so much stronger on the other side.

It isn't easy. But it is possible, if you want it enough.

Good luck.
posted by arnicae at 4:00 PM on August 8, 2012 [1 favorite]


I can't give you a personal example unfortunately so apologies if I'm being irrelevant but what strikes me from your post is that you two have every right to be exhausted between a miscarriage, a small child, lots of friends relationships breaking up (who may have been less available to support you) lack of great role models and some mental health issues of your own! I would say the problems is your current life circumstances taking a toll on your relationship, not that the relationship itself is a problem. Do you think coping with life as it is now would be easier without your partner?

Could you use some kind of shared humour, in jokes to help you cope and strengthen your bond?
Are there any support groups you could join?
posted by EatMyHat at 4:03 PM on August 8, 2012 [20 favorites]


I think most major problems in marriages are of two types, either stressful situations test your relationship, or there is a fundamental difference in values or communication that cannot be resolved except through squashing/seperating.

Dual mental illness, a miscarriage and raising a small child are all incredibly stressful things to go through. Problably there are a few smaller stressors that are going on as well in your life that you are ignoring because the big problems are overwhelming you. But the small stressors also add up. I believe your problems can be resolved with effort and love and time. I encourage you to hold on to the enduring love you have; as you are parents you can't really "end" your relationship - only change it. You will always have a connection and a need to communicate as co-parents as well. Generally, it is much easier to co-parent with someone who is on your team.

Having friends go through breakups/divorces can then affect your own relationship if it is vulnerable. As much as you want to support your friends you should be looking to strengthen your own support system with people that strongly support your goal of getting through this incredibly rouch patch. Good luck!
posted by saucysault at 4:12 PM on August 8, 2012 [9 favorites]


My husband and I had a VERY difficult time back before I was actually properly diagnosed (bipolar). I wasn't happy and he wasn't fully able to understand what was going on and although in general we communicate VERY well with each other this just wasn't something we could communicate about because I was going through things that were very isolating and that I didn't really understand.

What really helped was me getting better and him being kind and patient even though it was hard. This was back before we were married and for a while each of us though that perhaps we weren't actually going to get married, an idea that broke our hearts. We celebrated our five-year anniversary on Saturday and it's been totally, TOTALLY worth it. It hasn't been easy, it's been hard, but it's easier for us to be together. There have been times where there hasn't been much joy in our lives and it seems like you have a tough situation; having a miscarriage, having a child (and that definitely changes a relationship), seeing things that you thought were sturdy crumble, these are all really hard and it's totally reasonable if they make you question where you are, especially if you're dealing with your own mental health issues.

What my mom says to do (she does spiritual counseling) is to imagine the situation. Think about how you'd feel without your husband. Do you feel relief? Sadness? Apathy? It's worth considering. I know that if Mr. Pterodactyl and I hadn't gotten married because my mental health got between us I couldn't possibly be as happy as I am now. I think that as long as you're both taking steps to get better and you're willing to work on that together and you love each other, it really can get better. Good luck to both of you.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 4:17 PM on August 8, 2012 [2 favorites]


My husband and I definitely did go through this, and we're coming up on 15 years. Our marriage is absolutely solid, and although there's virtually no passion, it's the most stable, comfortable, comforting, and human thing in the world. We aren't settling; we have settled into truly rewarding happiness.

What happened for us is that we were both insanely busy, moving in opposite directions -- he was in med school and I was working for a dot com during the hay day. We had few friends and activities in common, and no time. We moved. We lived in separate countries for a while. He pressured me to do scary things like mountain climbing, which I hated. I gave him the cold shoulder and lived happily with my own friends.

And then ... we just grew back together. We didn't really do anything other than acknowledge that we loved each other and had decided to build a life together, and didn't want to divorce. We stopped being so selfish and started being more loving and attentive. We set some ground rules, which we agreed on together, like:

- As long as we are each working as hard as we can, it doesn't matter who makes more money. We both share all financial decisions equally. (This was critical, as one of us was almost always in school, and so making no money. We agreed that being a student = working hard, and so the student wasn't second class.)

- We should each work to support the other's efforts at self improvement, even if the other chose a project that we wouldn't have chosen.

- We should never fight dirty. Calling names, threatening to leave, walking out during a discussion, etc. were all verbotin. We could scream but the words themselves had to be an attempt to make progress in finding a solution. We were partners, not adversaries, even when we disagreed, and had to consider solution-finding to be the goal during all arguments.

- We each needed alone time, and we also needed together time.

- We each needed to be able to make fun of the other's parents and siblings, so we had to listen to the other one make fun of our own too. And it was more fun if we did these things together.

- We needed to compliment the other, thank the other, etc. often.

I also discovered that when we're fighting, humor is such a great way to come back to each other. My husband is incredibly funny, and letting myself laugh at his jokes during a fight makes us both smile and laugh. It's one of my favorite things about him -- laughing during a fight.

Best of luck, really, and yes, it definitely can happen. In fact, I'd wager that every happy marriage has several phases like this, where you grow and stretch and come back together.
posted by Capri at 4:22 PM on August 8, 2012 [27 favorites]


My parents worked through their on the rocks period by establishing that they both wanted to fight it out rather than split, and then as part of the fighting there was a real commitment to intimacy (read: SEX, I think, you know... maybe. ew.).

I try not to think about that second piece too much, but it does seem to be a foundation level part of their relationship. It was super horrible for several years, but I found out about two years ago that there was a specific thing (a monstrous, loathsome combination of religion and infidelity) that they were fighting about. They were able to make amends over a few years.

They have been been married for 30 years, love each other, and love having a family that they've worked on raising together. That said - I think I maybe have an unreasonable expectation for what problems can be addressed and resolved in a relationship.
posted by skrozidile at 4:25 PM on August 8, 2012


Mr. Floss and I have weathered 19 years of marriage in which we've had some very difficult (SUCH an understatement!) periods but through each the bottom line was always that we wanted to be together more than we wanted to be apart. Even when sometimes it would have been far easier to just walk away.

And if being together is tough than you do whatever it takes to make it better, be it marriage counseling that takes your last fifty dollars (FYI most churches will do it for free) or sitting down and fighting out every last issue until everyone is happy and making sure you take more effort with yourself and your relationship than you do with absolutely everything else because it's worth more. It's hard. SO hard. But it's doable if you both want it bad enough.

But as people above have said-don't compare your relationship with each other to previous ones, since it could never be the same, don't be so hard on yourselves, you are going through a heck of a lot at present, and also don't assume people who seem happy together are, they might only be good actors. Good luck to you. It's no fun to be surrounded by sadness and divorce, but it's when you can lean on each other the most.
posted by pink candy floss at 4:29 PM on August 8, 2012 [2 favorites]


Yep, been through a couple of rough stretches. Been "together" in one form or another since '99 (we're both of the opinion that marriage is just a legal state), had some rough patches, I had a previous long-term relationship fall apart around year 7.

My personal realization is that unhappiness is what happens when my expectations of what should happen don't match what does happen. So my (evolving) script is to sit down and say "hey, you're not happy, I'm not happy, I'm still committed to this long-term, why when I think I'm doing this thing is this other thing happening?"

Now it usually doesn't come out that way, sometimes it comes out like "I'm counting the freakin' days until you go deal with some things out of town so I can get some space to myself", but usually we can start to have the rest of the conversation to get to the point where we can have that previous conversation. Sometimes that evolution happens something along the line of screaming at each other "Well why don't" you take the morning and go bike riding?" "Because every time I try to do something for myself you get all grouchy!" "Well I wouldn't be grouchy if you'd say 'I'm not doing this to get away from you, I'm doing this because I want to'." "Well right now I am doing this to get away from you, but normally it's just because I want to.", and so forth.

And we're getting better about the communication. Rather than disappearing out to the shop, I say "Hey, I'm gonna go work in the shop, you're welcome to come join me, you're also welcome to do what you want", and then me disappearing into my cave is neither a rejection nor a call for her to do something that she's not prioritizing.

Really, it's about "wow, I thought we were good at communication, but really we've just been guessing right, let's clear the air and try again".
posted by straw at 4:38 PM on August 8, 2012 [3 favorites]


My husband and I have been together for almost 9 years. We've had a few rough patches. Having been in more "passionate" relationships, I think that passion is overrated.

Right now I am' going through a very hard time. I recently decided to end my relationship with my mother (the details are irrelevant to this conversation, but it's been a long time coming and is very sad). It's also been a very hard time in our relationship. My husband has been my rock, the only person aside from my therapist who knows everything that's going on. There is no passion right now. It's just getting through each day and hoping that tomorrow is better. Despite how hard things are now, I am happier with him than I ever imagined I could be.

I had parents who were abusive towards each other and always imagined myself in a similarly fiery relationship. I had relationships like that, and then I met Mr. tealcake. It felt like settling at first. I wanted the huge highs of an intense relationship. In time, I've realized that having those huge ups (and downs) is less important that knowing that he really, deeply loves me and that I really, deeply love him, warts and all. Interestingly, I feel like our relationship has gotten more passionate in some ways. I'm still shocked sometimes at the strength/depth of my feelings for Mr. tealcake. When he had a huge disappointment in his life a few years ago, I cried. Not because of how it was going to effect me, but because it HURT to know how upset he was. I never had that feeling in my more passionate, intense relationships.

Might you be able to accompany your husband to his therapist on occasion? Mine comes with me sometimes. We talk about how the stuff with my mom is affecting out relationship and him, and about any problems we've been having at home. It really helps.
posted by tealcake at 4:47 PM on August 8, 2012 [3 favorites]


A miscarriage (and I am so sorry for your loss) of a wanted pregnancy can be a huge strain on a marriage. It is both a bereavement and a serious medical issue, each of which are stressful challenges.

Please give yourselves and each other time to deal with the fallout from this sad event.

For suggestions, given the financial constraints, would it be possible for you two to substitute a few sessions with a couples therapist for his regular therapy visits? Maybe one in every four of his regular sessions until you two had gotten four or five couples sessions under your belt?
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:06 PM on August 8, 2012 [1 favorite]


Sorry, if I was unclear, I wasn't suggesting that you two have couples sessions with his current therapist; rather, floating the idea that he might say "Can we meet three weeks a month instead of four weeks a month for the next few months? I want to allocate some time and money to having a few sessions with a couples therapist" to his current therapist, and that the two of you would meet with a different therapist entirely.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:07 PM on August 8, 2012 [1 favorite]


I've been with my husband (dating and married) for about four and a half years. About a year and a half into the relationship we went through a really rough patch with long distance, bad communication, etc. We worked through it by remembering that these problems were just temporary and that we really did love each other.

I had a friend whose mom (who had been married for about thirty years) told her that in marriage, sometimes there are whole years where you don't like your spouse very much. But if you stick to your marriage, remember how much you love your spouse, and focus on making the marriage work, that period will pass. In the long term marriages I've witnessed (including my own parents'), I think that's true for pretty much everyone.
posted by McPuppington the Third at 5:12 PM on August 8, 2012 [1 favorite]


I posted this question on behalf of a friend about a year and a half ago. She was in a somewhat similar position to yours -- coming up on 7 years of marriage, struggling with some mental health issues (depression, identity, etc) on both sides. Plus, the difficult day-to-day of having kids, him having a job out of the house and her struggling to figure out what she wanted to do, major social upheaval, and general chaos in a lot of big and little ways. Basically, she wanted to want to keep her marriage, but she wasn't sure she actually wanted to.

She took a month away from her regular life by going to visit friends on the opposite coast, and then had the kids come stay with her for a last week before they all came back home, and that "reset" was what she needed -- with a breather and some time to herself, a lot of her own crazy evaporated, and she came back happier, more grounded, and better able to deal with the real issues between her and her husband.

They spent the next year doing some hard work to remake their marriage into a partnership that works better for each of them, and today, they are happier than ever.

Their marriage isn't perfect -- they're human, after all, so they still fight, and have misunderstandings, and she gets frustrated when he is slow to understand her and he is frustrated when she rushes through their conversations, but at heart, they have a really good thing going that's working really well for them.

So: there's hope. I wish you and your partner the best.
posted by rosa at 5:15 PM on August 8, 2012 [1 favorite]


studies have shown that couples who decide to stay together and work through problems have higher happiness levels years later than those who split, and that includes those who re-marry other people. Everyone has rough patches in life, and no relationship exists without conflict; when the two of you tackle and overcome these things together, you become stronger as individuals and as a team. It sounds like there is a lot in your relationship worth fighting for.

But we love each other deeply; we count each other as best friends; we each support and value the other's personal growth; when we put the effort in, our sex is good; we are building a really good life and enjoy raising our child together

that's not settling, that's hitting the jackpot.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 5:44 PM on August 8, 2012 [15 favorites]


I'd like to just nth what most everyone said. Nearly 15 years in with my husband, we've been through some crazy shit together. Upthread someone said that the bottom line has always been that they wanted to be together more than they wanted to be apart. This is us, several times over the years. I married a man with a really difficult past and a lot of challenging issues. And he could say the same of me (read: we're both sorta batshit crazy). We came together with a lot LOT of baggage. And I'm not certain we won't have more trying times ahead. But I love him and I love our life together as parents of our fantastic daughter and I don't want to live away from him. I'm glad I stuck through those dark days. There is definitely hope, it seems like you two have a good foundation.
posted by upatree at 6:02 PM on August 8, 2012 [1 favorite]


Here's my "what-did-you-do-when-times-were-tough?" answer.
posted by roboton666 at 9:10 PM on August 8, 2012


I walked out on (at least) two occassions, never intending to return. Once I had all my things packed in the car and was pointed to a different state. The last time we were separated for six months and I believed it was over. Then we talked and decided to give another go. Since then, we've still had our arguments and disagreements but the idea of leaving is off the board.

Let's see what thoughts I can come up with regarding long-lasting relationships, since we'll be celebrating 32 anniversaries come autumn. Some of this is only relevant to committed couples, other points are more general.

This is a list written as a reminder to myself, but I'll let you read over my shoulder.

* Decide that you are staying, that there is nothing on earth that can weaken your determination to be with each other. When two people agree on this, they can only be right.

* Work at your relationship as though you aren't good enough for your partner. It is probably true.

* Passion is stupid. I mean, 60-IQ, teenage stupid. Passion only cares about itself. And why not? Passion is, like, you know, crazy fun, amiright? Passion is a shooting star, it flames out because it is, ultimately, unsustainable.

* Love is the North Star. Always there, ever-reliable, dependably boring. It always takes you home. Love is calm. Love is tender, gentle, attendant, graceful. Love cleans up the kid's vomit at 3 AM. Passion has better things to do. Love out-classes passion any day of the week. Mistake passion for love at your peril.

* We aren't the same as when we got married. Thank god. I was younger, slimmer, probably livelier, along with a host of less-desirable qualities. I hope I'm a better person today.

* Be grateful for each other. Plenty of people are heart-breakingly lonely tonight or are in dangerous or stunted relationships. I was no more than three or four bad choices away from a horrible life before I met Mrs. Director. I often have reason to think of the Simon & Garfinkle lyric, "There but for the grace of you go I."

* It was agreed very early on that the word "divorce" would never be used jokingly. If you say it, you better mean it.

* If you want or need something, don't pout because your partner isn't picking up your "hints". Quit playing games. Ask.

* Avoid retaliation, because it is so very easy, so very tempting, and so very damaging.

* Never use threats to win a disagreement. If your position is that weak, you've already lost and the threat proves it. Plus you've shown that you value winning more than your relationship.

* If you ever start a sentence with "We agreed that..." you are delusional. Only you agreed, the other person kept quiet to shut you up. It worked, too, didn't it?

* Trust is hard-won but lost in an flash, and it never repairs to like-new condition. Protect your trust like you protect your partner.

* Know the other person's emotionally-sensitive places and guard them like you own. Don't let anybody -- especially yourself -- go poking at them.

* Confess. Apologize. Nobody is perfect, nobody gets a pass due to their chromosonal configuration. If you step in the pile, admit it, apologize, ask for foregiveness (not the same thing, btw). Figure out how to prevent a "next time".

* Touch each other. A lot. No, more still. Touching is magic. Each touch is a little chemical engine that tickles the brain, reinforces your bonds, warms the heart, calms the mind, and sometimes leads to other chemical reactions.

* Give respect freely, work to earn it as though it could never be deserved.

* Do (a lot) more for your partner than you expect to get in return. It's a great investment plan when you both do it.
posted by trinity8-director at 10:42 PM on August 8, 2012 [58 favorites]


I just had a miscarriage; we have a young child.

Hey, me too. My relationship is about the same age as yours too.

Your head sounds on straighter than mine was when the miscarriage happened, about a month ago, but the hormone rage was pretty bad for me (I was eleven weeks, the pregnancy stopped at eight) and I think if you are anything like that you should avoid making major decisions of any kind, or even really weighing life's big questions right now. But if this isn't true for you, never mind then.

To answer your question: when we are having troubles I remember this is true for us, and if this is true for you too, I think it's really excellent and precious: there is no one I'd rather face this life with, or even this day.

Feel free to Memail me if you'd like to talk to someone.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:55 AM on August 9, 2012 [2 favorites]


Several of our friends' relationships of similar lengths (6-7 years) have fallen apart in the last month. These were people who everyone thought were doing well and were going to get married/stay together for a very long time. This is definitely skewing our perspectives.

They have a significantly different experience of their relationships - being in them - than you do - observing them. Remember, you've never seen them when it was just the two of them, inherently. It sounds obvious, but it is an important thing to keep in mind.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:42 AM on August 9, 2012


There is a lot of good advice in this thread. Let me add that comparing your relationship to other people's relationships is a recipe for disaster.
posted by Silvertree at 6:39 AM on August 9, 2012 [3 favorites]


First, I am so so sorry for your loss. This is already a difficult time and having the emotional and hormonal storm of a miscarriage only intensifies any feelings you have. Please be gentle with yourself.

There's not a lot I can add to all the already fantastic answers you've received, but just to let you know that my marriage went through a long, multi-year rough patch that finally ended when we both realized that even though in fantasyland we wanted other people/things/places, in reality we couldn't make ourselves actually leave. Three years later, we are happier than we've ever been and there's actually passion again, more than there ever was before, and we're rock solid.

Memail me if you want some encouragement, advice, to vent, whatever. I get the feeling that you really love this guy, keep giving it a chance.
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:57 AM on August 9, 2012 [1 favorite]


You are going through some rough stuff, but your marriage sounds solid.

Having bad times doesn't mean your marriage is bad. Passion fades, but turns into a wonderful comfort and feeling of contentment.

Also, one divorce among your friends can cause issues in surrounding marriages. Especially if the divorce is among people who were perceived as being great together. These things cluster. Think of it as a peer pressure. Knowing that, decide that you're not one of those couples.

Make the commitment to each other that you'll not split for the next 12-months. Just decide that.

Now you're free to deal with all the other stressful stuff you're dealing with. I guarantee you, in 12-months, you'll have a different perspective on this. On top of everything else you're dealing with a divorce will only add stress and unhapiness, not solve it.

If, in 12-months, you still feel that you'd be better off without your husband, you can make those decisions then.

Deciding to separate in the midst of turmoil and sadness is not the best way to handle this.

Take Care.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:43 AM on August 9, 2012 [2 favorites]


I observed my parents go through a lot of ups and downs over the years. I think the best piece of wisdom my mother shared with me about marriage was this:

"When you're married, you don't just go through good days and bad days- you sometimes go through good years and bad years."

I'm not married yet (or even in a relationship right now), but just knowing that sometimes it wasn't going to be pretty but that it was possible to make it through really comforted me.

You have a lot going on right now, and you are both trying to take care of yourselves, each other, and your child. Be kind to yourself- you will be joyful again.
posted by Mouse Army at 8:08 AM on August 9, 2012 [1 favorite]


My marriage has survived this kind of thing - twice.

The first time, I was deeply addicted to pornography to a point where it ruined our finances and her trust in me. At the end of the same period, I almost cheated and my wife figured it out and stopped me, but the emotional damage to her was already done. Even though I knew that it was my fault the trust was destroyed, it hurt me badly to know what things were like before my shady behavior.

Several years later there was a reversal: my wife became emotionally detached from me and the kids and every night she was off work, she found a reason to be out of the house. Sometimes it was karaoke with co-workers. Sometimes it was going to a movie with an old friend. Whatever. After 12-day stretches where I was home alone every night while she was out having fun or working, it got old and things blew up.

Here's what worked things out for us: we made a deal when we first got married that has two parts. 1) Nobody sleeps on the couch or goes to bed angry. If there is something that needs to be discussed, we hash it out, even if that means we are up until 3:00 and have to get up with the kids at 7:00. 2) We will never "separate" even temporarily to try to fix our problems. A separation means we are giving up on working things out.


My marriage is far from perfect. But it has lasted 14+ years so far, and I think that is mainly due to communication. FWIW
posted by tacodave at 4:04 PM on August 9, 2012 [2 favorites]


find out if distancing would be good for you guys and try to give him a break
posted by barexamfreak at 9:10 PM on August 10, 2012


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