What is going on with me and/or the men I date?
July 23, 2012 3:04 PM   Subscribe

What is going on with me and/or the men I date?

My last relationship ended almost two years ago. I moved to Brooklyn from a woodsy suburb shorty after we broke up and have gone on many, many dates in that time. Most dates are, at the very least, pleasant. I am not saying I fall in love, but there is enough connection, conversation and laughing for me to think there is something that could at least be explored through another date. Pretty much never does my night end without the guy I am with expressing interest in me physically ( meaning: kissing me, asking if I want to come back to his place, blatantly telling me he is attracted to me, etc)

Most of the time, he will mention going out on a second date during the first date before anything physical happens leading me to believe that there is more than just sex on his mind and he is enjoying spending time with me. Often, if we go back to his/my apartment and we fool around a bit (if I am serious about getting to know someone I will not let it go further than heavy petting) he will invite me to sleep over or expect to sleep at my place, even after being told that I absolutely will not be having sex with him that evening. Whether the date ends that night, or the following morning(sometimes even after brunch the following morning), we kiss goodbye, HE SAYS (without any prodding or mention of it from me) we'll hang out again soon (even so much as planning on movies to watch next time or activities he thinks we'd have fun doing together), we part and I never hear from him again. Once or twice I've texted and received short non-replyable responses.

What the fuck is this? This is so confusing. Does literally every man I've gone on a date with in the past 2 years just pretend to like me for one night on the off chance that I'll sleep with him? Is it that I am attractive enough to want to sleep with, but not attractive enough (physically or otherwise) to spend any real time with? I just honestly do not understand this pattern. And, if I am so dreadful, then why do these guys spend hours with me on a date and go out of their way to act like they want to see me again? I'm 24 and I have been in 4 relationships in my life. If it says anything, I slept with all 4 of those men within the first 2 dates. Do I need to have sex in order for a man to keep his interest in me? I'm so frustrated. MEN, WHAT IS THIS?! Is it something I could be doing subconsciously? Help me help myself.
posted by gcolmes@gmail.com to Human Relations (63 answers total) 17 users marked this as a favorite
 
You should ask them. There is no such thing as a text message you cannot reply to, other than "don't ever text me again." Go ahead, why not find out?
posted by Ironmouth at 3:07 PM on July 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Might be bad luck, but honestly the whole "let's go heavy pet" thing would be super frustrating for me and I would personally prefer to just hear a firm "I think you're really cute/attractive/etc., so let's do that next time" or something like that.
posted by the young rope-rider at 3:14 PM on July 23, 2012 [14 favorites]


Once or twice I've texted and received short non-replyable responses.

What have you been texting them? If it isn't "hey want to go to this bar on that night," it should be. There's an unspoken "ok, your turn" in dating, and dudes may just be thinking you're not interested.

Also, in dating during your early 20s in NYC, the idea that you have gone on a lot of dates with only smooth jerks is unlikely but by no means impossible.
posted by griphus at 3:15 PM on July 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


where are you meeting these guys? online?
posted by timsneezed at 3:18 PM on July 23, 2012


How are you meeting these dudes? If it's online, my experience in online dating is that people are TREMENDOUS flakes, EVEN IF they actually like you just fine. People are also really, really bad at saying, "well, great to meet you, I don't really want to go out with you again."

You definitely DO NOT need to be sleeping with people within the first two dates in order to keep their interest, and in fact I think it might be wiser to NOT go back to his apartment the first date. Preserve a little mystery. (I mean, do what you want -- lots of people have sex right off the bat and everything is awesome, but it might be worthwhile to alter that part of your routine and see if it helps.)

But with online stuff, esp. in a large metropolitan area, people really do fall off the radar and it's not your fault. It just happens.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 3:20 PM on July 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


Because rather than having the fantasy of going out on a date and having sex with you, they instead have the memory of going out on a date and *not* having sex with you.

In other words, you kinda leapfrogged the passion stage and headed straight to the familiarity zone. If they're looking for spark and passion, they're gonna keep looking.
posted by TG_Plackenfatz at 3:21 PM on July 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


Is it that I am attractive enough to want to sleep with, but not attractive enough (physically or otherwise) to spend any real time with?

Unfortunately in New York, I think this is often the case. But I am older than you, more jaded, more cynical and perhaps biased as a result.

I think it's a buyer's market for reasonable looking and acting single men in New York and that many of them take advantage of that to the fullest.

This is terrible, but someone might as well weigh in with this opinion.
posted by bquarters at 3:22 PM on July 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


Oh, also, I am not a guy so take this with a grain of salt, but I really don't like dating someone if I don't know if we're going to be physically compatible or that they're attracted to me. I also don't like dating people who have significantly lower sex drives than me. If someone could get to the point of heavy petting and sleeping in the same bed as me and then not want to sleep with me...that would really trip my "our sex life is going to be like this forever" alarm, and I would bug out on the assumption that you didn't find me attractive or you didn't like sex as much as I do. And life is too short.

I totally understand why you'd want to get to know someone, and that's cool, but maybe if you are going to do that then skip the staying over makeout thing.
posted by the young rope-rider at 3:24 PM on July 23, 2012 [25 favorites]


Some dudes, yes, will totally shut off if they find out you're going to make them work for it. But, maybe its a signal you're sending out without meaning to? It's fine to not put out on the first date, just make sure it's a "Hey, I like you and don't wanna rush into this" and not a "Eww, no way".
posted by GilloD at 3:24 PM on July 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Are you using OKCupid? It's a great site, and I've used it on and off for years. But there are A LOT of people who are mostly on it for casual sex. Many of whom, in my experience, don't draw firm lines between a date for the purposes of maybe starting a relationship vs. a date for the purposes of sex.

I've also heard, though I find it confusing and don't know whether it's really true, that if a guy sees you as a relationship prospect, he won't try to sleep with you on the first date. Which, if that's true, it means that every single online date I've been on with a guy in the 3-ish years I've been doing this has been all about sex. Except for the ones where the dude clearly wasn't interested?

I do, however, agree with TG_Plackenfatz that there is a thing that can happen where you slide into the "familiarity" zone too quickly and then, if it hasn't happen, it's probably not going to happen.

In other words, internet dating is confusing as fuck.
posted by Sara C. at 3:25 PM on July 23, 2012


Are you meeting these guys online? If so, then you should be aware that, for many people, a first date with someone you meet online is not really the same as a first date with someone you meet in person. It's sort of a test-date.

And it's really not uncommon to have a lot of first dates through online dating, especially (IMO) with OK cupid. Most people I've talked to about this (and me too!) have about 5-10 first dates to every second date they have. Rough, I know, but that's how it goes.

Another thing - the fact that these guys aren't interested in a second date might be more of a reflection of their attitudes towards dating than anything about you. A friend who's a therapist once pointed out to me that there are two different approaches to selectivity in dating: some people take a "hey, let's see what happens with this person!" approach and as long as the person is reasonably attractive and compatible, they'll give it a shot. Whereas others are much more fine-tuned in what they look for.

Neither approach is right or wrong - it's more about when you do the filtering than how. It sounds like you're more of a "let's see what happens" person, but lots of people fall into the "fine-tuned" category, and online dating can really encourage that, because it seems like there are always more fish in the sea. So you might just need to adjust your expectations around that.
posted by the essence of class and fanciness at 3:25 PM on July 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Does literally every man I've gone on a date with in the past 2 years just pretend to like me for one night on the off chance that I'll sleep with him?

I don't know the men you are dating, but I've certainly done this and I know lots of other people (not just guys) who have as well. So in at least some cases, it might not be your imagination that a guy is saying the things he thinks you want to hear about, if not commitment, at least an ongoing connection ("Yes, I would love to go out on more dates with you!") in the hopes that although you might not say yes to one-night-stand-sex, you might say yes to first-date-of-many-sex.

But that said, I also agree with this:

Might be bad luck, but honestly the whole "let's go heavy pet" thing would be super frustrating for me and I would personally prefer to just hear a firm "I think you're really cute/attractive/etc., so let's do that next time" or something like that.

I have no more interest now than I did at 24 in going off and "heavy petting." Sex is great, hanging out at a cafe until late and flirting is great, making out with no happy ending is not so great. For a lot of other guys, I'm sure that sounds like an ideal evening, but if they are at all like me, this is not a plus. Inviting you to sleep over makes sense, because there's the hope that after a bit more making out you'll change your mind and want to have sex, but I wouldn't sign up for more nights of that unless my dating prospects were looking particularly slim.

I'm very much not suggesting that you start having sex on the first date (unless you want to, of course), just that if you are wanting to slow things down to look for signs of commitment doing the making-out and nothing-but routine may not be the right path. Again, different folks, different strokes, and maybe you just need to meet a guy who enjoys this pattern, I don't know.
posted by Forktine at 3:28 PM on July 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Is it that I am attractive enough to want to sleep with, but not attractive enough (physically or otherwise) to spend any real time with?

Unfortunately in New York, I think this is often the case.


While this advice might be correct for some guys, please please don't get this in your head as a fact, at 24, about yourself. I'm just saying because it can really damage your self esteem. If New York is where you live, I don't see how a bunch of advice about how men are terrible in New York is going to help you.

I just think this attitude can be really toxic over time and I don't want you to give in to it. Just take each interaction on a case by case basis and if it's not what you want, move on. Don't bother with what these guys might be thinking or wanting and how it reflects on your worth.
posted by sweetkid at 3:30 PM on July 23, 2012 [17 favorites]


Do this: on the next five dates, don't make out with them or do anything else like that, but otherwise do what you normally do. Do not go up to their place, and certainly do not sleep over, not even non-sexually. If they suggest it, say that you need to get to know them better before you'd do anything like that...but that you would like to get to know them better, so where are they going to take you out next?

This sends two messages:

1. You're not a pushover who will make out with/sleep with any guy who asks you, and
2. You're genuinely interested in getting to know them better.

This will get you a second date if they're interested, and not if they aren't; by putting them on the spot, they have to either make plans with you or admit that they don't want to. Some of them might make plans and cancel later, but then you know they just made plans because they were put on the spot.

Will this get you more second dates? Well, that's what not being a pushover is about; they'll value your company more if they know that they have to work for it. Letting them know you're genuinely interested in getting to know them is what makes them realize that they should work for your attention, because you've decided that (so far) you're receptive to it.

Plus, you want to be with a guy who won't be put off by you asking them out.
posted by davejay at 3:36 PM on July 23, 2012 [8 favorites]


Is it that I am attractive enough to want to sleep with, but not attractive enough (physically or otherwise) to spend any real time with?

I don't know why you think it's your fault or it's something about you. It's jut an attitude some or many young guys have towards women in general. Thy have a whole website of women they get to seduce into having sex with them and they don't have to do anything about it.

So don't have sex with anyone until you're certain you'll get treated respectfully. I'm not saying wait for any certain amount of weeks. Just don't expect sex to make them like you as a person.
posted by discopolo at 3:41 PM on July 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Don't bother with what these guys might be thinking or wanting and how it reflects on your worth.

I'm the cynical poster from before and definitely don't think this reflects badly on YOU or your worth!! Not at all!!

Just date, accept that some men in NYC (sorry!) are going to be lost causes but not all of them! and what's the saying...you only need one. Don't lose hope or become cynical like me. That's actually not what I meant to portray. I meant there might be an issue with the dating candidates- not with you.

posted by bquarters at 3:44 PM on July 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


I would advise you NOT to go back to anyone's place on a first date (or get involved in heavy makeout action) unless you're actually interested in sex. If you want to limit your first dates to seeing if you enjoy each other's company and have some chemistry, that's 100% fine -- but those types of first dates need to end well before the following morning.
posted by scody at 3:47 PM on July 23, 2012 [11 favorites]


What I mean is that there's literally a website full of women they can go try to bang and that's what these guys are looking for. So you're smart to not go there with them. Because after a couple of dates, you don't know who they are or what their motivations are.

But remember, it's not about you.
posted by discopolo at 3:47 PM on July 23, 2012


Lots of people enjoy having sex. That's pretty much it. People just like doing it. Given the opportunity, they will do it rather than not do it. Some will say or do anything to have sex.

Most people also don't like saying to someone - hey, you know what, at this very moment I have no idea whether or not I ever want to see you ever again. I also don't want to upset you...so...I'll call you.

It's like saying to people you knew from school: "we should catch up sometime". Sometimes it does happen, sometimes it doesn't.

So you can't change all of human behaviour so that no one wants to have sex immediately with you - and you can't stop people from lying to you in order to have sex with you - but you can control the situation from your end. If you don't want to sleep with them, don't. If you find their behaviour obnoxious, move on.
posted by heyjude at 4:00 PM on July 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm a guy and if after a date or similar you wanted to go back to one of our places, then we made out the the point of heavy petting, but then you didn't want to have sex, or if you told mein the first place you didn't want to have sex, but we made out to the point of heavy petting I'd be very confused. And then extra confused when we slept in the same bed together. In addition to aforementioned concerns of sexual incompatibility, I'd wonder if I'd pushed her farther than she was comfortable with, whether she was toying with me or something, whether you'd decided I wasn't attractive enough in some way... I just wouldn't know what was up with that and in my male monkey-brain confusion in this sphere equals fear or desperation, neither of which make me want to see a person again.

Even if you were so specific as to tell me before anything happened that you were attracted to me, but was only comfortable going so far on a first date, I'd still be confused and uncomfortable about boundaries when we were sleeping in the same bed.

If you want to sleep with them, then do so. If he's actually enough of a nutjob to think you're a slut (I mention this as the only objection to having first date sex I've heard voiced), then you've gotten rid of him early and gotten laid. If you don't want to sleep with them on the first date then don't, but also don't do everything but sex. If you want to make out at your place, fine, but you'll either have to tell him "you should be going" or make him sleep on the couch, both of which are tricky not to turn into rejections. If you make out at his place, at least you can say you have to work in the morning.
posted by cmoj at 4:05 PM on July 23, 2012 [13 favorites]


I'm a guy, and my last few relationships started in this way. The only difference is that we were friends beforehand. We'd start a make out session, and my last GF was very clear that she did not want to have sex for at least a little bit to let her feelings develop. I completely understood and thought it was a good idea, but I want to again say I was friends with her for a WHILE before this. We needed to make sure our feelings were real.

In this situation, I think I'd be slightly confused unless you were really clear about it. How do you bring it up to them? Something to the effect of, "I've moved really fast in the past, so can we go a little slower" would be perfectly fine to me.

I'm also in your age bracket, and I think guys at our age are either after lots of sex or a relationship. The former being much more common. You shouldn't take it personally, and perhaps it's a good thing in that you know what you want, and you're weeding out the guys who don't fit.
posted by neveroddoreven at 4:26 PM on July 23, 2012


How many dates are we talking about? If its five, small sample size; if it's a hundred, assess your behavior.

And yeah, the heavy petting only for me gets into this weird place that's taking things too far and/or not far enough. I don't really like it and it makes me have questions. This being the first date only compounds the problem because honestly I probably don't really know yet how interested in you I am.

And I mean, if I don't really know if I want to see you again, I'm not going to say that because you won't like it. Hopefully I'll realize it means you're not the one for me, but if I want to keep that option open and figure out how I feel about you, I have to tell you I do want to see you again. So it's certainly not a rejection but it's also not something you should read too much into.
posted by J. Wilson at 4:39 PM on July 23, 2012


Here is my take.

-The majority of these guys are out for sex or fooling around.
-Just because they are out for physical stuff doesn't mean they can't also like you as a person and enjoy being on a date with you. However the date is just means to an end for them.
-They sleep over, because maybe morning sex? And messing around all night. And maybe they are tired to and don't want to travel all the way back home. Or drunk.
-They say stuff about future plans during the date, because that apparently works.
-When they are leaving they say stuff about getting together in the future because they think they are sparing your feelings, plus who knows, maybe at some point they would want to come over for a movie, and fooling around, if they have nothing to do some night.
-Even if you had sex with them it wouldn't "keep their interest." You would have the exact same result except with more STDs. When a young guy is in the time of his life where he wants to have a lot of sex and not a relationship, they typically prefer to hit it and quit it rather than see the same woman regularly, no matter how accepting she is of there not being any strings attached.

-Some of these guys are not just out for sex. But of that set of guys, many of them are on a quest to find The Best They Can Do. They meet you, and they like you. But maybe you are not the best they could do! He had fun with you, he would definitely say you are an 8. But then there is his neighbor, and she is probably an 8.5 at least. Then there was that other girl on the site who is an 8 like you but she is blonde and maybe he might like a blonde better? How can he get involved in anything before he has investigated this.

I don't know what it is about online dating, maybe that the experience is so similar to online shopping, but I think it attracts this type of guy in spades. I think you would do way better to meet guys who are not actively out on some kind of quest to meet all kinds of women and trying to keep doing better.
posted by cairdeas at 4:47 PM on July 23, 2012 [13 favorites]


It's a horrible double standard that i for ages didn't want to believe, but: don't make out with them on the first date. At most, a long hug and a kiss on the cheek at the end of the date.

Online dating is weird. When you meet a guy in a bar or a party (or anywhere else in real life), by the time you go on your first date you've already established that you like each other, are attracted to each other, and you want to go out. But when you go out on online dates (or setups), the first date is actually equivalent to the 'met at a bar/party' that happens BEFORE a non-online first date. So when you're on an online first date, its not really a date-date - it's just there to meet the person and find out if you ACTUALLY want to date them.

So basically: Making out after an online first date is equivalent to making out with a random dude in the bar. And because we live in an unfair sexist patriarchal double-standard-filled world, a lot of dudes aren't interested in really dating a girl who does that.

(Also: you're ending the 'thrill of the chase' part too soon with these makeout sessions. Stretch out the chase for at least a couple of dates. This isn't a damn-the-patriarchy thing, its more a recognition that most people enjoy the chase, and the chase is often the most romantic/exciting part, and you need romance/excitement to move new relationships along, otherwise they die. Like yours do!)
posted by Kololo at 5:07 PM on July 23, 2012 [7 favorites]


For what it's worth (and this is from a very limited sample size of late 20s people in Brooklyn), a lot of my male friends are on OKC and they pretty much instantly lose interest in women they date after things get more intimate than a goodnight kiss early on. Similarly, my female friends on OKC who sleep with or go home with men on the first date rarely have second dates.

I don't think the men are just using the dates as a means to get sex, but they do "somehow" lose interest overnight. It's frequently baffling to them too, and they feel bad that the women they sleep with get hurt.

There's nothing "wrong" with a woman having sex on the first date with someone she's just met, but it's pretty much a losing strategy in the online dating world, and a much riskier one in terms of the relationship than not having sex.

Online dating has caused a throwback to previous gender norms, many of which remain unexpressed out of concerns for political correctness. If you really want a relationship to develop with someone you've met online the best advice for women is not to sleep with them until after several dates (more than three--probably at least five or six).

(On preview, seeing what Kokolo said and echoing most of that. I'm not sure it's actually a double standard, but a woman does show herself to be not a terribly savvy dater if she has sex on the first OKC date expecting a relationship--sad but true.)
posted by luckdragon at 5:13 PM on July 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


another point, after having read the other responses: I actually think that guys WANT to 'work for it', and i don't think you should interpret some of the above advice to mean you should have sex right away. (Especially since i don't think that's what they mean.)

Waiting a couple dates to makeout/sleep together just means that by the time you do it, that you have been waiting and wanting for a while (building up anticipation is good!), and that you've been getting to know each other (so you're both invested in the 'relationship').
posted by Kololo at 5:15 PM on July 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Here is another weird phenomenon that I have observed in my time of dating guys. I found that the guy's overall relationship mindset at the time we met was WAY more of a predictive factor than anything else in how likely he would be to want to be in a relationship with me and how serious he would want it to be.

Here is what I mean by that. There are guys out there who are pretty much relationship guys and feel uneasy and uncomfortable when they are not in a relationship, so they don't stay single for long. There are other guys who have been single way longer than they wanted to be, are tired of it all and feeling like, they just want to be in a relationship already!!! There are guys out there who are feeling like they are very ready to get married and want to make that happen super soon.

One guy in my social circle is a relationship guy (also super nice, smart, great catch overall). He got dumped and was devastated, saying it was the worst day of his life. 3 months later another girl I know was looking to make out with someone at a party and thought he was cute. Well starting then she was his new girlfriend and now less than 6 months after that they are living together. This girl could have written your question word for word and way, wayyyyy more (the shannanagins of the guys she was involved with were crazy). She just so happened to stumble across Relationship Guy during the brief window while he was single.

I once dated a guy who told me he loved me on the first date. Less than a year later he proposed. (I said no and we broke up). He was extremely hurt. And then he met someone else and a year later proposed to her. She said yes and they got married. She just so happened to run into marriage guy.

You know, we think that the way it works is that first we will find this person who is just gaga for US specifically in a way they would never be for someone else. They will want to get in a relationship or get serious with us based on the unique feelings they have for us. But I think a lot of the time, whether people want to get in a relationship with us or get serious or not is based on things internal to themselves. And our awesomeness or perfectness for them isn't actually the top factor.

So I would say, maybe, you might have more success if you can ascertain what the guy really wants and is after at this point in his life, in general.
posted by cairdeas at 5:15 PM on July 23, 2012 [52 favorites]


Try your best to not take it personally. Seriously.
I spent the better part of two years just trying to get a date and you wouldn't believe how many times I got told, "I already have a boyfriend", which we all know is BS lie. The pinnacle of IAHABF was a woman who said 'yes' then called me after and told me that she already has a boyfriend. And why didn't you mention this before? "I forgot."

The point is that there is definitely a game going on on both sides and it's played with variations of the same rules. It's OK that you didn't hook up. In fact, it's better than OK, since they strike me as a total waste of time for a relationship. Crisis avoided.

Be patient. Maybe you can find a better way to screen intent?
posted by plinth at 5:30 PM on July 23, 2012


cairdeas is right: you have no control over where a guy you go on a date with is emotionally, or how much he wants a relationship. If a guy doesn't want something serious, nothing you do will make him want something serious. What you do have control over is your own expectations. It sounds like you're putting all your eggs in one basket every time you go on a first date. Don't do that. Try taking one metaphorical egg to your first date, and then two to your second, and so on from there.
posted by oinopaponton at 6:30 PM on July 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


I just thought of one last thing. When I was thinking back over the Relationship Guys and Marriage Guys I have known in the past (some platonic friends, some people I dated), and trying to think if there would be a way to spot them, I realized something. Every one of the marriage guys talked about marriage from the get-go, when I met them. I started meeting guys like this when I was 23 and they were a few years older. One of them flat out said, when we first became friends, "Yup, I am pretty much on the search for a wife." He wasn't some kind of crazy freak, he was just 26, with a great job and a house, in a city chock full of young single guys with great jobs, and he was just ready for it. He was married within 2 years of when I met him and he said that. Another guy I went out with him a few times but just didn't have romantic feelings for him. We became good friends afterwards and he told me, "Dating has always been confusing, frustrating and draining for me. I really just want to get married so that I know I can always have regular sex and have that part of my life settled and not take up so much of my energy." (!!!) Okay so it's not the most... romantic reason to want marriage, but the guy was 25 and really, it is understandable. That guy married the next girl he dated, no joke. (I hope she never finds out what he went around saying as the reason he wanted marriage.)

You are 24 so probably too young for wanting marriage. But maybe just keep an ear out to hear how often these guys talk about wanting a serious girlfriend or a committed relationship, in general.

posted by cairdeas at 6:50 PM on July 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Location makes a difference. When I moved from the deep south to the west coast suddenly everyone wanted to fuck me AND not date me. I wish I'd figures out years earlier that it was a location thing and gotten the fuck out before I developed a fine self-loathing as a direct result. I have no experience with the east coast, so you're on your own there.
posted by thelastcamel at 8:37 PM on July 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm not convinced that it has anything at all to do with you or your choice to not have sex or to heavy pet. In my experience, dates--especially dates from online sources--are flaky. Especially if you don't have any mutual friends, your dates don't have any social incentive not to treat you flakily, because no one will find out about it so as to tarnish his rep.

I've had the experience you describe with people who seem interested and later flake MANY times, under many different circumstances, including no sexual contact, petting, and actual sex. Doesn't matter. Haters gonna hate and flakers gonna flake.

I think you just need to move on. Dating is a numbers game. Sure, you could try pulling back and not petting and seeing what that does but unfortunately I don't have the faith others on here seem to have that that will have an appreciable impact. You just need to keep running the numbers until you end up with a guy who sticks around.
posted by parrot_person at 8:58 PM on July 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


After dinner:

He says: "Wanna go back to my place?"
You say: "I'm sure that would be fun, (coy), but I've already got brunch plans with some girlfriends early tomorrow morning. Can't tonight."

You either part here or somewhere else (walk to the subway? to a taxi?) where you bat your eyes, take his hands, and say absolutely sincerely: "I had a GREAT time, though." You scoot closer. You kiss a little bit. And then after you are done kissing, your face close to his, you say, "But...I am free Wednesday night--let's grab a drink after work."

He says: "Sure." Maybe he kisses you again.

You pull away and say: "I'll text you details later. Have a great rest of your weekend!" Maybe you squeeze his hand right before you let go.

You part.

You go home. The ball is in your court. You know he likes you. You sleep well. You don't have to wait for next contact because you've already said you'll contact him later with details of your next meeting. You don't text him details until two days before. You confirm time and place. You have something to look forward to for the rest of your week.

If he (no matter who he is) doesn't show up for that after work drink, color me purple and call me Barney.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 8:10 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


I'm so frustrated. MEN, WHAT IS THIS?!

Hello, I am a man. I was dating (women) until I met my wife a few years ago, although I wasn't dating in New York and it's a while since I dated a woman under 25. There is nothing at all shocking in your experiences, to the extent that your confusion is the most surprising thing to me in your question.

Does literally every man I've gone on a date with in the past 2 years just pretend to like me for one night on the off chance that I'll sleep with him?

That's possible, especially if you're meeting them all in the same way and using the same criteria to select them. Your profile might just be a prime target for men wanting casual sex and you might give off 'early sex on offer if relationship seems possible' vibes in person.

And, if I am so dreadful, then why do these guys spend hours with me on a date and go out of their way to act like they want to see me again?

Nothing thay are doing suggests that you are dreadful. If what I hear about the imbalance of eligible single straight men and women in NY is true, they are simply able to hop from woman to woman and are at a stage of their lives where this is an attractive prospect. The hours they spend on the date are both enjoyable and also the price of getting your clothes off. The acting like they want to see you again is partly to get you in the mood for intimacy and partly to ensure you'll treat them nicely up and until you part. It's not nice behaviour, but it doesn't reflect badly on you.

Most of the time, he will mention going out on a second date during the first date before anything physical happens leading me to believe that there is more than just sex on his mind and he is enjoying spending time with me.

Yes, that is what you're supposed to believe. When I was dating, I tried to be honest, but there's no question that overtly mentioning or hinting at future plans visibly relaxes many women in the early stages. "Yeah, there's a street full of great Japanese places, I'll have to take you there." "I am going to remind you of that so many times." If I was looking for first date sex and didn't have many morals, then lines like that would be a good way of reassuring a date that there was the possibility of a relationship and that I wasn't just a one-nighter.

he will invite me to sleep over or expect to sleep at my place, even after being told that I absolutely will not be having sex with him that evening.

I've been in situations where a woman has said "we absolutely will not be having sex tonight" and, surprise, we've had sex that evening - initiated by her. Going home to sleep alone because a drunk, aroused woman says "this is as far as I'm going, but I'm OK continuing with making out" is not an optimal strategy for maximising sex, even assuming a decent guy who doesn't try to take things further. And some men prefer sleeping with others even without sex.

Whether the date ends that night, or the following morning(sometimes even after brunch the following morning), we kiss goodbye, HE SAYS (without any prodding or mention of it from me) we'll hang out again soon (even so much as planning on movies to watch next time or activities he thinks we'd have fun doing together), we part and I never hear from him again.

That's a cowardly and cruel move, but it makes sense from his point of view. It doesn't cost him anything, it ensures you treat him nicely and don't cold-shoulder him or yell at him. It leaves the door potentially open for future booty-calls from either party.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 8:22 AM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Nthing cairdeas. I totally agree that guys are much more deliberate about their dating life. They want to get married: they find a wife. And so on. Women tend to project their own romantic relationship structures onto men.

I would suggest that you date OLDER MEN. At 24, you are young and hot and a great catch. Guys your own age will be less mature (in general) and not appreciate you as much.
posted by 3491again at 8:56 AM on July 24, 2012


Sooo, it's probably a little late for this information but...

How many dates are we talking about? If its five, small sample size; if it's a hundred, assess your behavior.


It's definitely been like 20+ dates.

I really don't like dating someone if I don't know if we're going to be physically compatible or that they're attracted to me.....If someone could get to the point of heavy petting and sleeping in the same bed as me and then not want to sleep with me...that would really trip my "our sex life is going to be like this forever" alarm

I'm fairly confident that these men know we are physically compatible. I usually express clearly that I would very much like to sleep with them, but I am trying to take things slowly.

I'm also in your age bracket, and I think guys at our age are either after lots of sex or a relationship.

I tend to date men between the ages of 30-35, so I'm not sure the common stereotypes for men in their 20s would necessarily apply. I'm sure there is a whole other stereotype for men in their early-mid 30s who date 24 year olds...

Your profile might just be a prime target for men wanting casual sex and you might give off 'early sex on offer if relationship seems possible' vibes in person.

So, this is my profile. (If I know any of you in person, let's not mention this. Unless of course you're one of the men I've gone on a date with, in which case, please...mention this.)
Is there something about me that screams "I am a good target for casual sex!"?

Also, I am very confident when it comes to my body, but, as you'll see, I am not exactly a thin girl. I know, especially in a city like new york, my body type is not always desired. Could that be a part of it?

Lastly, thank you all for your advice. I will definitely not be willing to make out+ with men the first time I meet them. You've been very helpful!
posted by gcolmes@gmail.com at 8:56 AM on July 24, 2012


I tend to date men between the ages of 30-35, so I'm not sure the common stereotypes for men in their 20s would necessarily apply. I'm sure there is a whole other stereotype for men in their early-mid 30s who date 24 year olds...

Yes, someone in his 30's who dates a 24 year old is *usually* not looking for something serious or long-term. Imagine dating a guy who was 17 or 18. Can you see most 17 or 18 year old guys as a father to your children in the next year or two? The idea is preposterous, but maybe you might want to go on a couple dates with them anyway if they were cute and fun.

I would say at 24 your sweet spot for finding a relationship would be guys who are 26-29.
posted by cairdeas at 9:05 AM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


As a guy, I'm here to say this: nthing the "stop making out with them on the first date". Either have sex, or cut it off before you go home.

It's all one in the same to me. You're a cis woman, I'm a cis man, we're on a date, and I know that I'll have sex on a first date, so I sure as hell won't think less of you or lose interest or whatever if you do, because that's a double standard that needs to be buried in a dark cave where it suffocates and dies. You're no more a slut than I am, and if I am a slut, I'm happy being one, and I'm happy spending time with them. And if we DON'T have sex, well, I went out with you on a date in the first place. My personal rule is, I spend time with, date, and generally sleep with people I can be friends with. End of story. I can lie and get a woman into bed, I know that, and I don't need that ego boost. The ego boost I want comes from getting someone I respect into bed, and doing it on the level, because otherwise, this woman I'm trying to seduce isn't being seduced by me, plus the "real" me is a liar to boot.

Look, if we're going home together, and then we make out, I'm expecting sex to follow, and it's hugely confusing when it doesn't. But I'm not on a hunt for sex, I'm on a hunt for consistency. I lose respect for women (same as with men) when they prevaricate, when they're not honest, when they can't make up their minds. If you're interested in me, tell me, if you're not, tell me. I'm an adult, so are you, I can take rejection, I can wait for what I want, but being presented with a guessing game is just...I mean, when have you ever seen bewilderment as a pickup strategy? And by 24, shouldn't you know your own sexual boundaries, at least for initial contact??? Sorry if that's harsh, but you wanted to know what we were thinking, there's my anecdata.

The "real" me, the emotionally honest one, is a pretty quiet, emotionally slow-moving person, unfortunately, so it gets frustrating for me sometimes to want to say that I'm physically attracted to someone, to ask if they'd like to come home with me, on the first/second/third date. I can't tell you the number of times I've had someone ask me, "Why didn't you kiss me?!" Then I'm like, "Wha? You wanted me to? Oh! I'll come kiss you right now!" Once upon a time, I asked, "Are all women so opaque?" But it was the wrong question.

I guess I was operating under a different set of expectations, and I've since learned that dating reality is different for other people. I just told you about mine. Stop being frustrated with these men. Some are out "just for sex", there are things you can say and do that will filter them out (or not, depending on what you want, I know a woman who thrives on getting guys like the ones you describe into bed, then dumping them, why I have NO idea), much of which is suggested upthread. But beyond that, you need to define your dating reality, and then turn it into a set of consistent, easy-to-understand principles that I'll feel safe following. The older you get, the less tolerance for confusion there is.

In other words, get higher standards. "...have gone on many, many dates in that time. Most dates are, at the very least, pleasant. I am not saying I fall in love, but there is enough connection, conversation and laughing for me to think there is something that could at least be explored through another date." You're generous, and that's good. But MOST dates? You're lowballing, lady. I used to do the same, dating pretty much anyone who expressed interest, or who I could convince to come out with me. The results were disappointing, to say the least. My results got a lot better when I added "well-read, not selfish, bilingual, hard-working, loves camping, despises LV/Gucci/traditional luxury products, generous with time, long record of selfless kindness" to my checklist. Pretty much every date since getting the stones to filter out non-matching partners has been a hit. In five (over 8 months), I met my current girlfriend. Couldn't be happier.

I Am Not A Relationship Counselor, but that's my advice. Hope it helps.
posted by saysthis at 9:07 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


I know, especially in a city like new york, my body type is not always desired. Could that be a part of it?

Here I was mulling over how I too am cynical-about-online-dating versus aware of a lot of great men (many of my platonic favorites being friends from childhood!) and how the cynical twist of online dating is indeed what cairdeas mentions, i.e. it's a place to go shopping for certain types. And the types who like shopping are the ones who tend to use it the most.

I don't think it's you; it sounds like you're running into an issue similar to my own. To take the shopping metaphor further: certain areas (I suppose we could think of them as stores) tend to have a lot more clients looking for S, M, and L. So few customers walk in looking for XL that they don't even stock it. Some customers even turn their noses up at XL, so it's a question of image too. I, for example, am 5'11" and weigh 75kg, which I think is something like 165 pounds. When I had those numbers on my profile, I would get spontaneous messages – I did not contact the men first, they contacted me with this – saying variations on "omg you're huge/you're too tall/your photos must be fake you can't possibly look thin at that weight". When I took the numbers off, I no longer got that type of message, but instead questions about "what I was hiding". When I finally did meet some guys, many said, "whoa, you weren't lying about your height?" Some just looked at me funny and didn't contact me again. The one I finally ended up going out with... lied about monogamy. At one point, when I'd left him, he'd said he'd wanted to add a "woman as tall as top models" to his list of beds. Greeeeeaaat.

It's really not you. It's the paradigm. Sometimes you gotta shift the paradigm to one that fits who you are and who you're looking for. Others have given good advice towards that.

On preview, yes, lower your age range too, there are lots of neat single guys 26-29. I'm 36 and have been tempted to date a few single 26-year-olds I know through work... except that it would be through work!
posted by fraula at 9:09 AM on July 24, 2012


25 year old guy here.

Stop blue balling guys and they'll call you back. Don't make them think you're taking them home to have sex, and then pull the cuddly sleepover card. If you don't want to sleep with a guy by the end of the date, give him a little goodnight kiss and call it a day, wait to see if he calls back.

And I back up what saythis says about double standards... I don't think women should be judged for sleeping with a guy on the first date if she wants to. Like he said, we're all adults now, and hopefully have outgrown that period where people could convince us to do things we don't want to do. Just do what you want to do, and if that includes sleeping with a guy on the first date, then enjoy it and embrace it. Its empowering. My best female friend is very career oriented (ie: busy) and always has 2-3 guys on the hook at once, and she's kept ones around just for the sex. She tells me hilarious stories of "trying to let guys down easy" when they start getting hooked and she is only in it for the booty. So refreshing to see the tables turned for once!
posted by el_yucateco at 9:16 AM on July 24, 2012


Pretty much what Kololo said. In my opinion, you are sending out hugely mixed signals. pick one or the other. In my experience, NOT giving 'too much' physical too early works very well. As Patty from Millionaire Matchmaker says, 'no sex before commitment!" We can, to a lesser extent, extend this to heavy petting and probably the heavy makeouts too.
posted by Jacen at 9:35 AM on July 24, 2012


Is there something about me that screams "I am a good target for casual sex!"?

I'm not an OKCupid expert, but I understand from other Metafilter threads that "short-term dating" is interpreted by some as "sex early on" or "casual sex with a date beforehand". "You want to take a nap with me" might be taken the wrong way, I suppose. But a lot of 'casual sex guys' basically trawl dating sites looking for women with cute profile pictures (and yours is very cute) & 'short term dating' and send out a lot of messages based on that. But as I said in my earlier comment, the problem might be that you are choosing and vetting men in a way that results in dates with too many one-nighters. I'll have to leave that to women with experience of finding men through online dating to comment on.

As for body type, there is a regrettable stereotype that curvier women have rounder heels. Some men may be making early advances they wouldn't with a skinnier lass.

By the way, I appear to be in the minority, but I'm fine with a woman who wants to stop at making out or heavy petting on the first or any other date. So long as boundaries are made clear at a reasonable time (not too early, not too late) and don't involve smacking my hand away with a disgusted look, you can have whatever limits you like.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 9:41 AM on July 24, 2012


Maybe something about the make-out-session went poorly?

I've actually had quite a few otherwise very interesting and attractive dates who kissed so poorly that I knew that it just wouldn't work out long term. There are other things that appear during the make-out that are red flags.

The chemistry part of a relationship is so critical for long-term success, that if it's not there, it's not worth pursuing. For this reason, I like to get the make out-session-out out of the way as early for this reason.

Sadly, this isn't a thing that you can just tell a woman that she should improve upon, though.
posted by TheOtherSide at 10:39 AM on July 24, 2012


I'm fairly confident that these men know we are physically compatible. I usually express clearly that I would very much like to sleep with them, but I am trying to take things slowly.

It's not just about you being attracted to them. It's also the implication that you have a relatively low sex drive/interest in sex compared to them.

If someone can just roll over and go to sleep after heavy petting with me, then we are incompatible, period. My sex drive is high and I like sex a lot, and I want to be with other people who have high sex drives and also like sex a lot, and heavy petting -----> sleep would never happen with me if I were into someone. Not to be crass, but I would be sneaking off to the bathroom to rub one out or just leaving. I would never go on a second date for fear of literally the entire relationship being me trying desperately to get you to the point where you'd be aroused and into me enough for sex.

Obviously I can't speak for every guy on OKCupid, but I think this is a decent guess with some of these guys. And, as a fat woman, I don't think it's your body type, but your body type plus the no-sex thing might read as super-insecure, and someone who won't have sex with me due to insecurities about their own body is also someone I wouldn't continue to date.

Good luck (some of this is definitely about luck).
posted by the young rope-rider at 10:56 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I tend to date men between the ages of 30-35, so I'm not sure the common stereotypes for men in their 20s would necessarily apply. I'm sure there is a whole other stereotype for men in their early-mid 30s who date 24 year olds...

Oh, okay. There's a sell-by date where dudes are single either because they're perennially immature and/or they will never want a relationship ever. It's older in NYC than it is elsewhere, but in some of these cases they might be past that particular date. In my friend circle dudes usually get relationship-minded around their early-30s, or they just never do.
posted by the young rope-rider at 11:05 AM on July 24, 2012


Is there something about me that screams "I am a good target for casual sex!"?

You are super cute and look like a fun person, and I'm not your target demographic, so take this with a grain of salt, but I kind of think that your pictures might be doing you some harm here. You have a whole lot of them and they are all kind of overtly flirty/sexy-- is that the most important part of your personality? I'm guessing no. Physical attraction is not going to be a problem; you're very pretty-- so why not use photos where you are engaging in activities you really like? If you're looking for a partner to do things other than sexytimes, it can't hurt to prove that you actually like doing things other than sexytimes.
posted by oinopaponton at 11:06 AM on July 24, 2012


First of all, I agree with everyone saying don't go home with them at first. Not just because it will help to weed out un-serious guys or because they might read it as a mixed message (though those are good reasons too) but also because I think it will spare you some of the intensity of wondering what went wrong if there's no second date.

Second (and please take this with huge grains of salt b/c I'm an old, straight female who hasn't lived in NY for years now) a few things came to mind looking at your profile. You're really very pretty, and you're funny, which is awesome. I think being so pretty lets you get away with very casual, "whatever" type photos, and maybe that combined with how funny you are might put you in some "casual, fun girl" category in guys' minds. I'm not saying to eliminate the funny - I LOL'ed at the "big butts/cannot lie" thing - but there may be some opportunities to show your serious side that you're passing up.* Also I think you could easily take some pics that make you look seriously gorgeous - not overly staged or wearing a ball gown, if that's not your thing. Just step up the "I am serious girlfriend material" angle. I think, were I a guy who read this profile, I could imagine you'd be fun to hang out with, but I'm not sure I'd realize you really want something serious. There's nothing very deep in there. (Though maybe there are parts of the profile I can't see, not belonging to the site, or maybe that's just how these things are done. I don't know.)

*E.g. the Jewish thing. If a man I was considering dating wrote that I'd be wondering. "Does he not take his heritage seriously? Then why didn't he just leave it blank? Or is he trying to prove something, like he's not one of "those" Jews? That could get tiring." Etc.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 11:39 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


*E.g. the Jewish thing. If a man I was considering dating wrote that I'd be wondering. "Does he not take his heritage seriously? Then why didn't he just leave it blank? Or is he trying to prove something, like he's not one of "those" Jews? That could get tiring." Etc.

That's just one of the choices on the Okcupid site. OP didn't write in "Jewish and not too serious about it..." in that space is what I am saying.
posted by sweetkid at 11:48 AM on July 24, 2012


Ah, thanks, sweetkid. It has "laughing about it" as a choice, really? Does it have that for other religions too? "Muslim and laughing about it?" (The more I hear about OKC the more I know I'm not meant to be on it;-)

Anyway that was apparently a bad example, but in general I do think a little more depth to some of the answers might show guys what you're like in more serious moments, which of course longer term relationships will partly consist of. It's a writing-fault of mine to be all funny all the time, but if a guy presented himself that way, I might not realize he had another side, that was worth getting to know on another date.

posted by DestinationUnknown at 11:59 AM on July 24, 2012


Maybe an actual single, straight man should weigh in on this, but I think the cooking and cheese-selecting photos you added are perfect and make you seem much more like a serious (but still fun) dating prospect.
posted by oinopaponton at 12:18 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'd 100% send you a message with the goal being more long-term than not - if I lived in NYC and used OKC - so it's not you, it's just the culture. If you're getting to dates two and three, the nicer guys might not want to bombard you without some reciprocity, and the casual guys are done. It's such a numbers game that you might need to be a little more persistent, while still respecting the boundaries as above.

For what it's worth, I'm a few years older and have had multiple long-term live-in relationships. As a currently single male, most of those started with a bang (no pun intended!). It's not right or wrong either way, but be definitive or else I'll see you as wanting attention but not a relationship, or possibly just frustrating and flaky moving forward. In a numbers game, bring your boundaries to the table!
posted by kcm at 12:26 PM on July 24, 2012


Is there something about me that screams "I am a good target for casual sex!"?

Two items in your profile are sexually suggestive in a way that might imply casual sex is on your mind. One, you mention that truffle popcorn gives you a boner, which figurative or not, is a sexually provocative way of putting it! And two, the "you should message me if" section mentions that you'd like to discuss appropriate things to do in front of a curtainless window, which is an exceedingly flirty thing to say.
posted by Dixon Ticonderoga at 2:32 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I don't think someone would go through a whole date just thinking about what you wrote on your profile though. I mean, thinking that you might be into casual sex might based on profile be a reason to contact you in the first place, and it's always good to check in and revise things on your profile to try to attract some of the people you might want to meet, but I doubt the profile is the reason for this behavior.
posted by sweetkid at 3:15 PM on July 24, 2012


I just checked out OKCupid and apparently there's a box you can select so that guys who list that they're into casual sex can't contact you. Maybe that will help?
posted by the young rope-rider at 3:35 PM on July 24, 2012


There are guys out there who are pretty much relationship guys and feel uneasy and uncomfortable when they are not in a relationship, so they don't stay single for long. There are other guys who have been single way longer than they wanted to be, are tired of it all and feeling like, they just want to be in a relationship already!!!

I am a man and I endorse this message. (Really, I don't think it's just a "guy thing," although the socialization of men and women is so different that I am sure it manifests in quite divergent ways.) If through luck or the cues in your profile you are getting only guys who are happy being single and playing the field, I can see why you wouldn't be getting many follow-on dates.

The changes you made to your profile between when I first clicked on it and when I looked again a few minutes ago have made it subtly less sexual; I'd be curious if it leads to different responses.
posted by Forktine at 3:37 PM on July 24, 2012


Here's my take on it. Most of these just aren't clicking with you. The chemistry isn't there, for whatever reason. That's not because of anything you're doing wrong - I used to be on OkCupid, and the vast majority of women I went out with on first dates from that site were women who I just didn't click with.

So why are they kissing you and going home home with you and all that? Because they're attracted to you, and they figure they may as well try to sleep with you. There's nothing about you that's bringing this on. It's just a thing that a lot of guys do when they're out with a woman, whether or not they want to hang out with her again. The reason you should stop going home with them and making out on the first date is not that it's making them thing less of you (fuck them if it does). It's because you are reading their willingness to do so as a signal for a much higher level of interest than it actually implies. A guy wanting to go home with you and try to sleep with you tells you nothing at all about his interest in dating you, only that he's physically attracted to you. These can be two separate things, and I think you're getting confused because you're thinking of them as the same thing.

Now, why are they saying they want to see you again and then never calling? Two reasons:

1) They did want to see you again, but they're going on OkCupid dates with a bunch of other people, and they hit it off more with someone else. This is just a thing that comes with the territory in online dating.

2) They didn't know how else to end the date. I'm not proud of this, but when I was using OkCupid I would sometimes end dates with women with whom I really hadn't hit it off by saying "well, this was fun, we should do it again." Again, not awesome of me, but I just didn't know how else to signal that the date was over.

Try not to worry too much about this - online dating is hard. I had no success at all with it, but I met someone at a friend's birthday party right after I disabled my OkCupid profile.
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:41 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


"DO NOT message me if your purpose for being on here is strictly to find people to do sex with"

I think you might be issuing a challenge to guys who would take that as a challenge.

And, if you're 24 and dating 34 year old men, you might be dating men who are not looking for a relationship. Given your age, I really think your sweet spot is about 24 to 28.

Finally, stop getting to the point on first dates where sex is on the table (or has to be taken off the table). It's not just the "what is going on, this is annoying/weird" issues that are addressed repeatedly above, but it's also the issue that Ragged Richard just raised: by ending the date with a good-night kiss that is not in either of your apartments, you'll weed out the guys who aren't really into you enough to want a second date.
posted by J. Wilson at 3:54 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


(I just wanted to mention that even though i'm a heterosexual girl, and so are you, that occording to OKCupid, you and I have a 99% Match rate. That's literally the highest i've ever matched with anyone on the site. Too bad we're straight! )
posted by Kololo at 4:43 PM on July 24, 2012


Check back in 6 months. The way things are going, I may be into women by then.
posted by gcolmes@gmail.com at 8:43 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


FWIW I would chuck anyone that turned up their nose at any make out session that did not end in sex. Making out and only making out? Yeah, not a real sex life. But not being able to simply enjoy making out for the sake of it? As frustrating (in an anxiety-inducing way) as never getting sex after making out.

How well a guy makes out tells you a bit about how they are in bed. You don't want to commit to having sex with them before you make out then suddenly find out that they pull your hair while making out and when you ask them to stop they only do for a few moments before starting again. He's probably not going to be more receptive to your concerns once your clothes are off. If that starts to happen you could say no then, but some people honestly believe that once consent is given it can't be withdrawn, because consent was given.

So I think your make out sessions are FINE. Chuck him if seems to see you are a route to a "happy ending" as opposed to a person to be intimate with.

I agree with some above posters - these guys seem to be running the "maybe she'll change her mind about no sex" scenario.

"Maybe if I tell her there are more dates, she'll change her mind about no sex."
"Maybe if we start making out she'll realize she's led me on this much and change her mind about no sex."
"Maybe if I let her stay over, she'll come in in the middle of the night."
"Maybe if I don't force sex by the morning, she'll give me morning sex as a reward."

It happens. It's not you. Some women do give in to these scenarios. The only thing I would stop doing is the sleepovers.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 12:13 AM on July 25, 2012


Check back in 6 months. The way things are going, I may be into women by then.

Oooh, I know what you mean, and I'm sorry you're in that place right now. You seem beautiful, smart, and fun and you will find someone who is equally awesome.
posted by the young rope-rider at 7:31 AM on July 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Nthing that most mid-30s men who are dating mid-20s women are not looking for a relationship, to put it mildly.
posted by cmoj at 8:08 AM on July 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


May I suggest adding a couple of things that you like to your profile? You mention you like cooking, eating cheese and watching netflix (Attenborough, crime shows optional) and that's it. What would you like to do if you were in a relationship and what do you like doing now? What were the last couple of books that you left in the middle? I doubt your body type is an issue and you come off as funny/smart, but the profile could be more concrete. Some guys might not be messaging you because they can't picture what it would be like spending time with you whereas people who are more interested in your physical appearance might be the ones who contact you and flake for the reasons other people described. Have you tried contacting people you find interesting or are you waiting for people to contact you? Online dating depends a lot on luck too, though, so don't get discouraged.
posted by ersatz at 9:34 AM on July 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


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