How do I move on?
July 20, 2012 9:38 PM Subscribe
Help me reconcile the fact that my BF doesn't want to get married and I will have to return home due to visa restrictions. (long)
I am 26 and my boyfriend is 28, we have been together for almost 3 years and have been living together for 2. The first 6 months of our relationship was long distance, I was living in NY while he lived in Dallas. I moved to Dallas right after college graduation so we could be together. I love him deeply and although I feel there are some things he could work on (and so could I) we make a fantastic couple.
My problem is that I am here with a student visa. I was completely honest and told him from the start of our relationship that my time in the United States would be limited due to my visa restrictions, he said he understood and we decided to continue building our life together. Immediately after college I was granted one year to legally work here so I got a job(not my 1st choice but the choice that made the most sense so we could be together in Dallas). A few months before my working year was up, I started thinking about what should we do regarding our relationship, he wanted me to stay and was very upset and sad about the idea of me having to leave and so was I, so at this time I was faced with the decision of either leave or look for another legal way to stay here with him. So with financial help from my parents, long hours of studying while working full time, and saving some of my money, I got into grad school (student visa was renewed).
I was very happy and excited to have the opportunity to get an MBA and of course to stay with my boyfriend. Around this time we did have the marriage conversation, in which he said that he didn't feel he was ready at that moment and that he needed more time (he hasn’t had much success with previous relationships, and this is his longest one)but he said he did see himself marrying me in the future. I was sad that he felt he needed more time but I accepted this and decided not to pressure the issue, if time is what he needed then we had a bit more time with me going to grad school.
It has been a little bit over a year since and unfortunately the time to make a decision has returned. Financially, my parents cannot afford tuition and living expenses anymore (they have made a HUGE effort to pay for it so far). My bf cannot help financially with school expenses because he has student loans he is actively trying to pay off.
I think that I could maybe find a way to finance the last months of graduate school but that would be *extremely* difficult and I would have to borrow money from a friend who offered, which I really do not want to do because it would put me in a very delicate situation. Friends and big sums of money do not mix in my opinion and student loans for international students are almost non-existent. I talked to my boyfriend about getting married as that would make things easier for us, not only that but we love each other and we both had said it was the next step in our relationship. Getting married would also mean that I can get a full time job again and later, once we have some money saved, hopefully finish grad school. He said that getting married would feel like a rushed decision based on my visa expiring and that is a lot of pressure to put on someone else. Especially when there may be another way that I could stay (i.e borrowing money), that it feels to him like an unfair ultimatum and that he now feels like he doesnt have the option. However, I don’t understand this since he knew from the beginning this is not a normal situation where he’d have all the time in the world for him to make up his mind.
Anyway, I am very heartbroken and cry every time I think about the way he feels, he was also very visibly sad and asked if there was any other way I could stay, that he doesn’t want me to go blah blah but his words at this point are meaningless when it is obvious he is not willing to help me stay here with him.
I honestly do not know how to reconcile this situation. Part of me feels like I was maybe selfish to expect that he would agreed but the other part of me cant help but feel that I have a right to ask this of him because we are in a relationship, I made sacrifices in the past to stay with him and was honest about my situation from the start. I do truly think he loves me but am I wrong to think that obviously he doesn’t love me enough to marry me? At this point, even if I magically came across some money, I don’t know if taking that financial responsibility would be worth it since if he is still not sure now why should I assume he will be in 6 months (when Im supposed to finish school). I know this was a LONG post but I just want some advice or words of encouragement on how to accept this situation for what it is and prepare myself for the inevitable: moving back to my home country. Also, if you were in my situation and were able to continue with your studies, knowing that your bf is unsure, would you be able to continue with the relationship?
I am 26 and my boyfriend is 28, we have been together for almost 3 years and have been living together for 2. The first 6 months of our relationship was long distance, I was living in NY while he lived in Dallas. I moved to Dallas right after college graduation so we could be together. I love him deeply and although I feel there are some things he could work on (and so could I) we make a fantastic couple.
My problem is that I am here with a student visa. I was completely honest and told him from the start of our relationship that my time in the United States would be limited due to my visa restrictions, he said he understood and we decided to continue building our life together. Immediately after college I was granted one year to legally work here so I got a job(not my 1st choice but the choice that made the most sense so we could be together in Dallas). A few months before my working year was up, I started thinking about what should we do regarding our relationship, he wanted me to stay and was very upset and sad about the idea of me having to leave and so was I, so at this time I was faced with the decision of either leave or look for another legal way to stay here with him. So with financial help from my parents, long hours of studying while working full time, and saving some of my money, I got into grad school (student visa was renewed).
I was very happy and excited to have the opportunity to get an MBA and of course to stay with my boyfriend. Around this time we did have the marriage conversation, in which he said that he didn't feel he was ready at that moment and that he needed more time (he hasn’t had much success with previous relationships, and this is his longest one)but he said he did see himself marrying me in the future. I was sad that he felt he needed more time but I accepted this and decided not to pressure the issue, if time is what he needed then we had a bit more time with me going to grad school.
It has been a little bit over a year since and unfortunately the time to make a decision has returned. Financially, my parents cannot afford tuition and living expenses anymore (they have made a HUGE effort to pay for it so far). My bf cannot help financially with school expenses because he has student loans he is actively trying to pay off.
I think that I could maybe find a way to finance the last months of graduate school but that would be *extremely* difficult and I would have to borrow money from a friend who offered, which I really do not want to do because it would put me in a very delicate situation. Friends and big sums of money do not mix in my opinion and student loans for international students are almost non-existent. I talked to my boyfriend about getting married as that would make things easier for us, not only that but we love each other and we both had said it was the next step in our relationship. Getting married would also mean that I can get a full time job again and later, once we have some money saved, hopefully finish grad school. He said that getting married would feel like a rushed decision based on my visa expiring and that is a lot of pressure to put on someone else. Especially when there may be another way that I could stay (i.e borrowing money), that it feels to him like an unfair ultimatum and that he now feels like he doesnt have the option. However, I don’t understand this since he knew from the beginning this is not a normal situation where he’d have all the time in the world for him to make up his mind.
Anyway, I am very heartbroken and cry every time I think about the way he feels, he was also very visibly sad and asked if there was any other way I could stay, that he doesn’t want me to go blah blah but his words at this point are meaningless when it is obvious he is not willing to help me stay here with him.
I honestly do not know how to reconcile this situation. Part of me feels like I was maybe selfish to expect that he would agreed but the other part of me cant help but feel that I have a right to ask this of him because we are in a relationship, I made sacrifices in the past to stay with him and was honest about my situation from the start. I do truly think he loves me but am I wrong to think that obviously he doesn’t love me enough to marry me? At this point, even if I magically came across some money, I don’t know if taking that financial responsibility would be worth it since if he is still not sure now why should I assume he will be in 6 months (when Im supposed to finish school). I know this was a LONG post but I just want some advice or words of encouragement on how to accept this situation for what it is and prepare myself for the inevitable: moving back to my home country. Also, if you were in my situation and were able to continue with your studies, knowing that your bf is unsure, would you be able to continue with the relationship?
He said that getting married would feel like a rushed decision based on my visa expiring and that is a lot of pressure to put on someone else
A rushed decision?! He's had three years. If he really cared about you he would either marry you or break it off.
If I were you I don't know if I would be able to continue a relationship with this guy regardless of anything else. He's unwilling to commit to you - don't commit to him.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 9:46 PM on July 20, 2012 [47 favorites]
A rushed decision?! He's had three years. If he really cared about you he would either marry you or break it off.
If I were you I don't know if I would be able to continue a relationship with this guy regardless of anything else. He's unwilling to commit to you - don't commit to him.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 9:46 PM on July 20, 2012 [47 favorites]
He doesn't want to marry you right now, even though you feel it would be the most expedient solution to your visa issue. That's all he's told you.
So, would it actually be the most expedient solution to your visa issue? Spousal citizenship takes a long time to process. I also don't see how it would solve your immediate financial issues, since it would be months if not years before you were no longer considered "an international student."
Your arguments about why it's necessary or wisest for the two of you to get married right now don't seem compelling to me. Perhaps, even though he loves you,they don't seem compelling to him.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:50 PM on July 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
So, would it actually be the most expedient solution to your visa issue? Spousal citizenship takes a long time to process. I also don't see how it would solve your immediate financial issues, since it would be months if not years before you were no longer considered "an international student."
Your arguments about why it's necessary or wisest for the two of you to get married right now don't seem compelling to me. Perhaps, even though he loves you,they don't seem compelling to him.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:50 PM on July 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
The thing is that it's okay for you to want to marry him just because you do. And it's okay for him nt to want to marry you just because he doesn't. The other stuff, even if it made sense, is not so relevant.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:52 PM on July 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:52 PM on July 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
It took me three years or so to get around to proposing to my wife and marrying her. In retrospect, I could have got around to it sooner. Three years is long enough, and you sound like a wonderful catch, if you ask me.
International relationships are different. In some ways, there's really no point in being in a long-term monogamous relationship, because at some point one person is going to have to leave the country - the relationship is doomed unless you make some sort of medium-term commitment to stay together no matter what the visa status.
I think you should just let this guy go. While he might have considered marrying you in the first place, at this point he has made up his mind not to.
By watching your visa expire, he's basically giving you up.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:59 PM on July 20, 2012 [30 favorites]
International relationships are different. In some ways, there's really no point in being in a long-term monogamous relationship, because at some point one person is going to have to leave the country - the relationship is doomed unless you make some sort of medium-term commitment to stay together no matter what the visa status.
I think you should just let this guy go. While he might have considered marrying you in the first place, at this point he has made up his mind not to.
By watching your visa expire, he's basically giving you up.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:59 PM on July 20, 2012 [30 favorites]
I'm not sure I'm reading your circumstances correctly, but it seems stupid to me to complete more than a year of a graduate degree and then drop out because you don't want to borrow money to finish it. Yes, friendship and money don't mix, but assuming you'll be able to find a job after you graduate and pay it back, this should not be a big concern. Did you consider how you would pay for this degree when you first got into grad school?
That said, I'm getting deep hints that this guy does not want to marry you. Period. It's probably time to start coming to terms with that, if you have no long term plans to stay in the US after grad school.
I also get the sense that you are staying in the US mostly for this dude who maybe doesn't ever want to marry you. You should think very hard about that.
posted by Sara C. at 10:00 PM on July 20, 2012 [15 favorites]
That said, I'm getting deep hints that this guy does not want to marry you. Period. It's probably time to start coming to terms with that, if you have no long term plans to stay in the US after grad school.
I also get the sense that you are staying in the US mostly for this dude who maybe doesn't ever want to marry you. You should think very hard about that.
posted by Sara C. at 10:00 PM on July 20, 2012 [15 favorites]
I should say that my wife is from Japan, and we were living together in Canada for a while in the mid-90s.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:00 PM on July 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by KokuRyu at 10:00 PM on July 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
I agree with Kokuryu. If he wanted to marry you eventually, this is the time to do it. Adults realize that we don't live in a fairy tale or a movie, and that sometimes important decisions are not made under the idyllic circumstances we would prefer for them.
For example: I moved to Japan to be with my long-term girlfriend. I was on a tourist visa, so I had to return to the States every three months. After a year of this, I proposed to her on the extremely romantic grounds that hey, we both knew it was going to happen sooner or later, and plane tickets are expensive!
It's been 12 years of marriage since then and she still gives me (humorous) grief about my incredibly romantic proposal to this day.
If your bf really wanted you, he would step up and do it now. At least, if he has any of the qualities in a man you would want to marry anyway (like, say, courage, commitment, faith in your relationship, etc.)
posted by zachawry at 10:20 PM on July 20, 2012 [9 favorites]
For example: I moved to Japan to be with my long-term girlfriend. I was on a tourist visa, so I had to return to the States every three months. After a year of this, I proposed to her on the extremely romantic grounds that hey, we both knew it was going to happen sooner or later, and plane tickets are expensive!
It's been 12 years of marriage since then and she still gives me (humorous) grief about my incredibly romantic proposal to this day.
If your bf really wanted you, he would step up and do it now. At least, if he has any of the qualities in a man you would want to marry anyway (like, say, courage, commitment, faith in your relationship, etc.)
posted by zachawry at 10:20 PM on July 20, 2012 [9 favorites]
It's been 3 years. 3 years is long enough to decide if it's the real deal, regardless of whether or not your partner needs a visa. Everything else he says is a red herring. For him, marriage to you isn't on the cards. Better you know this now and cut your losses than give it another 3 years. He may say he's sad, but not enough to commit, and he's trying to manipulate you into feeling guilty for not doing enough to stay. Who wants to marry a guy like that?! For the record, I was in a long distance relationship where we only saw each other every 2 months, and my boyfriend proposed after a year, then I left my city and job and moved across the country to be with him. Why? Because things like that are what you do when you're serious about someone. If he's not trying to get you to stay, whatever form he can do that in, he's not interested in committing. Sorry.
posted by Jubey at 10:31 PM on July 20, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 10:31 PM on July 20, 2012 [13 favorites]
I think you're right: he doesn't love you enough to marry you. He'd rather you go back to your country forever than marry you? Really? He's had three years to know exactly what kind of situation he was getting into by dating you--if he doesn't want you forever by now, then fuck him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:33 PM on July 20, 2012 [22 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:33 PM on July 20, 2012 [22 favorites]
part of me cant help but feel that I have a right to ask this of him because we are in a relationship, I made sacrifices...[etc]
No. And this would be a bad basis for a marriage anyway. You, presumably, want a marriage with the best longterm outlook, entered into with gusto on both sides, etc. Not a marriage where he agrees reluctantly because of guilt. That would be bad for both of you.
Set aside the marriage question. Maybe he is scared of marriage for some reason, even though he's crazy about you; he is allowed to say no.
As to whether you should stay with him or dump him:
Is he treating the problem of your visa expiring as a joint problem ("our problem") or as your problem that he hopes you will solve on your own? Is he working with you to explore every possible solution to this joint problem? Is there any talk of him moving to your home country for a period of time? If so, he is at least acting like he wants to be in a longterm relationship with you - maybe worth trying to stay together.
As to your MBA:
I would be inclined to finish the degree if you can. Your parents have put in a lot of money, and you have put in a lot of effort, and it would be a shame to lose all that. If you do return to your home country, will a US MBA help you in the job market? Is there any possibility of you developing a specialization that allows you to be hired by a US company in a work visa category that would keep you in the US?
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:50 PM on July 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
No. And this would be a bad basis for a marriage anyway. You, presumably, want a marriage with the best longterm outlook, entered into with gusto on both sides, etc. Not a marriage where he agrees reluctantly because of guilt. That would be bad for both of you.
Set aside the marriage question. Maybe he is scared of marriage for some reason, even though he's crazy about you; he is allowed to say no.
As to whether you should stay with him or dump him:
Is he treating the problem of your visa expiring as a joint problem ("our problem") or as your problem that he hopes you will solve on your own? Is he working with you to explore every possible solution to this joint problem? Is there any talk of him moving to your home country for a period of time? If so, he is at least acting like he wants to be in a longterm relationship with you - maybe worth trying to stay together.
As to your MBA:
I would be inclined to finish the degree if you can. Your parents have put in a lot of money, and you have put in a lot of effort, and it would be a shame to lose all that. If you do return to your home country, will a US MBA help you in the job market? Is there any possibility of you developing a specialization that allows you to be hired by a US company in a work visa category that would keep you in the US?
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:50 PM on July 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the replies so far. I wanted to comment on some of your points:
"So, would it actually be the most expedient solution to your visa issue? Spousal citizenship takes a long time to process. I also don't see how it would solve your immediate financial issues, since it would be months if not years before you were no longer considered "an international student."
Spousal citinzenship takes priority and the timeline to get a GC is usually 6 - 12 months. As long as you apply for it while you are within legal status, you are able to work and stay in the country without having to continue your studies. Also I have a good amount of savings for my living expenses, and I work part-time so there is no actual immediate financial issues to be resolved by marrying him. What would resolve is being able to stay in the country and NOT have to be in school to stay legal.
"I'm not sure I'm reading your circumstances correctly, but it seems stupid to me to complete more than a year of a graduate degree and then drop out because you don't want to borrow money to finish it"
Honestly to me it is stupid to take on a huge debt to stay in school at *this* point because it would only be to stay in the country with my bf, which is obviously not ready to commit further on the relationship. A lot of people put their studies on hold until they have money to fund their studies, specially with this economy. I dont want to make such a financial sacrifice of being in debt for someone who is not willing to sacrifice for the relationship.
"I also get the sense that you are staying in the US mostly for this dude who maybe doesn't ever want to marry you. You should think very hard about that."
This is very true.
KokuRyu, zachawry, Jubey thanks for sharing your stories. They show the actions and decisions that I would have liked from my boyfriend and for our relationship. And even though I know that I probably should say fuck him and walk away based on his unwillingness, I dont have a switch where i suddenly just stop loving him, regardless.
LobsterMitten, He has offered certain solutions such as cosigning a private loan (since international students need a US citizen as a cosigner and much higher interest rates) but due to him having several loans of his own, there were almost no viable options for borrowing . I also need to be fair to him, since this is only my part of the story, and say that his dad has been married 3 times, divorced twice and not doing so great in the 3rd one. We've talked before and he claims that his dad's situation doesnt influence him, but his longest relationship before me was only of 7 months.
You are right it would be a shame to lose all of that specially the effort, the opportunity and the money my parents spent. Back home just having a college degree from the US is a huge benefit as we do also have several US companies that do business there which offer big reimbursements for employees pursuing their master's degree. So, my hope would be If i were to leave, work for one of those companies or save enough money to pay for the rest of my masters.
posted by winsome at 11:13 PM on July 20, 2012
"So, would it actually be the most expedient solution to your visa issue? Spousal citizenship takes a long time to process. I also don't see how it would solve your immediate financial issues, since it would be months if not years before you were no longer considered "an international student."
Spousal citinzenship takes priority and the timeline to get a GC is usually 6 - 12 months. As long as you apply for it while you are within legal status, you are able to work and stay in the country without having to continue your studies. Also I have a good amount of savings for my living expenses, and I work part-time so there is no actual immediate financial issues to be resolved by marrying him. What would resolve is being able to stay in the country and NOT have to be in school to stay legal.
"I'm not sure I'm reading your circumstances correctly, but it seems stupid to me to complete more than a year of a graduate degree and then drop out because you don't want to borrow money to finish it"
Honestly to me it is stupid to take on a huge debt to stay in school at *this* point because it would only be to stay in the country with my bf, which is obviously not ready to commit further on the relationship. A lot of people put their studies on hold until they have money to fund their studies, specially with this economy. I dont want to make such a financial sacrifice of being in debt for someone who is not willing to sacrifice for the relationship.
"I also get the sense that you are staying in the US mostly for this dude who maybe doesn't ever want to marry you. You should think very hard about that."
This is very true.
KokuRyu, zachawry, Jubey thanks for sharing your stories. They show the actions and decisions that I would have liked from my boyfriend and for our relationship. And even though I know that I probably should say fuck him and walk away based on his unwillingness, I dont have a switch where i suddenly just stop loving him, regardless.
LobsterMitten, He has offered certain solutions such as cosigning a private loan (since international students need a US citizen as a cosigner and much higher interest rates) but due to him having several loans of his own, there were almost no viable options for borrowing . I also need to be fair to him, since this is only my part of the story, and say that his dad has been married 3 times, divorced twice and not doing so great in the 3rd one. We've talked before and he claims that his dad's situation doesnt influence him, but his longest relationship before me was only of 7 months.
You are right it would be a shame to lose all of that specially the effort, the opportunity and the money my parents spent. Back home just having a college degree from the US is a huge benefit as we do also have several US companies that do business there which offer big reimbursements for employees pursuing their master's degree. So, my hope would be If i were to leave, work for one of those companies or save enough money to pay for the rest of my masters.
posted by winsome at 11:13 PM on July 20, 2012
Never marry for reasons other than marriage.
There are people who get married because they want to get married and that also means they get a visa that means they can stay together (I'm one of them) and there are people who need a visa and marry someone they are not in a relationship with (not legal but it works for some people). Marrying someone you are relationship with for a visa (where one (or more) of you doesn't want to get married (especially if one does)? It's a well known recipe for disaster. It never ends well. Most often with two people suddenly realising they have completely different ideas of what the relationship is. It's all but impossible to navigate successfully and relationships blow up just because that is what people chose to do.
There are at least two options you haven't mentioned: Him spending some time in your home country and going long distance again. Marriage is a guarantee of a visa anyway, and both of these are preferable if both of you are 100% commited to the idea of being married for marriages sake. Both his and *your* reaction to these ideas should tell you something about where this relationship is heading.
posted by tallus at 11:14 PM on July 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
There are people who get married because they want to get married and that also means they get a visa that means they can stay together (I'm one of them) and there are people who need a visa and marry someone they are not in a relationship with (not legal but it works for some people). Marrying someone you are relationship with for a visa (where one (or more) of you doesn't want to get married (especially if one does)? It's a well known recipe for disaster. It never ends well. Most often with two people suddenly realising they have completely different ideas of what the relationship is. It's all but impossible to navigate successfully and relationships blow up just because that is what people chose to do.
There are at least two options you haven't mentioned: Him spending some time in your home country and going long distance again. Marriage is a guarantee of a visa anyway, and both of these are preferable if both of you are 100% commited to the idea of being married for marriages sake. Both his and *your* reaction to these ideas should tell you something about where this relationship is heading.
posted by tallus at 11:14 PM on July 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Is he treating the problem of your visa expiring as a joint problem ("our problem") or as your problem that he hopes you will solve on your own? Is he working with you to explore every possible solution to this joint problem? Is there any talk of him moving to your home country for a period of time? If so, he is at least acting like he wants to be in a longterm relationship with you - maybe worth trying to stay together.
This! This! This! If your boyfriend says he doesn't want you to leave the country, and he doesn't want to marry you, he needs to enthusiastically participate in finding another way to get you a visa. On preview, in your followup you say you have money saved for living expenses--would your boyfriend be able to pay for your living expenses while you finish the MBA, freeing up your savings for tuition? Or would he go back to your home country with you for a while, with the plan that once you had time to save up for the rest of your masters, the two of you could return to the US together?
I'm a Canadian in a relationship with an American, and I have to say that when my partner searched for and found a job in Canada, it did amazing things for our relationship not only because we will soon be able to live and work in the same place again, but also because I feel much more confident about our future together knowing that we're both equally committed. (I've moved to keep us together in the past, too.) Long distance interludes, which is where I am right now, can also be an option--but I feel like if you aren't sure of your boyfriend's level of commitment to your relationship right now, it's not a good time to go long distance.
But it could be be he is just not quite ready for marriage yet, and maybe he and you together can come up with an alternative way to stay in the same place. If he doesn't take some initiative, though, then I think you should move on. You've put a lot of time and money into this relationship already, it sounds like, and adding to that by taking on a big debt (to a friend, no less) doesn't sound like a good idea.
posted by snorkmaiden at 11:27 PM on July 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
This! This! This! If your boyfriend says he doesn't want you to leave the country, and he doesn't want to marry you, he needs to enthusiastically participate in finding another way to get you a visa. On preview, in your followup you say you have money saved for living expenses--would your boyfriend be able to pay for your living expenses while you finish the MBA, freeing up your savings for tuition? Or would he go back to your home country with you for a while, with the plan that once you had time to save up for the rest of your masters, the two of you could return to the US together?
I'm a Canadian in a relationship with an American, and I have to say that when my partner searched for and found a job in Canada, it did amazing things for our relationship not only because we will soon be able to live and work in the same place again, but also because I feel much more confident about our future together knowing that we're both equally committed. (I've moved to keep us together in the past, too.) Long distance interludes, which is where I am right now, can also be an option--but I feel like if you aren't sure of your boyfriend's level of commitment to your relationship right now, it's not a good time to go long distance.
But it could be be he is just not quite ready for marriage yet, and maybe he and you together can come up with an alternative way to stay in the same place. If he doesn't take some initiative, though, then I think you should move on. You've put a lot of time and money into this relationship already, it sounds like, and adding to that by taking on a big debt (to a friend, no less) doesn't sound like a good idea.
posted by snorkmaiden at 11:27 PM on July 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I'm sorry that you and your boyfriend aren't in agreement regarding your relationship, but there is no point in dwelling* on how much in love you are with each other, whether or not he should be able to commit at this point, why getting married is the logical choice, etc. As others have said, none of that is relevant in terms of what you need to do. Plus, marriage is difficult enough when both people are totally on-board—god knows you don't want to talk him into the idea.
If I'm reading this correctly, the first thing you need to do is decide whether to borrow money and finish grad school or to return home immediately. This seems to me to be a fairly straight-forward assessment of costs, e.g., if you are virtually assured that you will be able to find a position that will allow you to repay the loan in a timely manner, I would say stay and finish grad school. I'm guessing that a year of grad school alone isn't worth much in the job market.
If you stay for school, you need to decide whether or not to continue the relationship. I don't agree with those who say "he should know by now" (together "almost 3 years", which include LDR, living together 2 years—to me, that's the bare minimum time before talking about marriage/the next 50 years). At the same time, I doubt that it would be in your best interest to continue the relationship. It seems that you want a commitment now, not just the possibility of a commitment in 6 months.
Good luck.
*I know, easier said than done. Fortunately, there is plenty of advice on AskMeFi re how to cope with a break-up.
posted by she's not there at 11:30 PM on July 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
If I'm reading this correctly, the first thing you need to do is decide whether to borrow money and finish grad school or to return home immediately. This seems to me to be a fairly straight-forward assessment of costs, e.g., if you are virtually assured that you will be able to find a position that will allow you to repay the loan in a timely manner, I would say stay and finish grad school. I'm guessing that a year of grad school alone isn't worth much in the job market.
If you stay for school, you need to decide whether or not to continue the relationship. I don't agree with those who say "he should know by now" (together "almost 3 years", which include LDR, living together 2 years—to me, that's the bare minimum time before talking about marriage/the next 50 years). At the same time, I doubt that it would be in your best interest to continue the relationship. It seems that you want a commitment now, not just the possibility of a commitment in 6 months.
Good luck.
*I know, easier said than done. Fortunately, there is plenty of advice on AskMeFi re how to cope with a break-up.
posted by she's not there at 11:30 PM on July 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
You are not the only woman who has been in this kind of predicament.
The boyfriend who gives every indication that he loves you as much and as deeply as you do him, only to suddenly reveal that he doesn't want to marry you when push comes to shove?
It's very common. It's weird and you are rightly baffled, but be glad you dodged his indecisive bullet and try to stop identifying as his girlfriend as soon as possible. Be sad, but commit to being on your side. Begin to imagine the commitment you wish he felt for you in another man, even a fantasy man.
Protect yourself and your ability to live at all costs.
I don't, any you don't, get how he could do such a thing, but that's because women are raised to be nurturing and loyal, and it's possible that men are socialized to think differently.
posted by discopolo at 12:05 AM on July 21, 2012 [11 favorites]
The boyfriend who gives every indication that he loves you as much and as deeply as you do him, only to suddenly reveal that he doesn't want to marry you when push comes to shove?
It's very common. It's weird and you are rightly baffled, but be glad you dodged his indecisive bullet and try to stop identifying as his girlfriend as soon as possible. Be sad, but commit to being on your side. Begin to imagine the commitment you wish he felt for you in another man, even a fantasy man.
Protect yourself and your ability to live at all costs.
I don't, any you don't, get how he could do such a thing, but that's because women are raised to be nurturing and loyal, and it's possible that men are socialized to think differently.
posted by discopolo at 12:05 AM on July 21, 2012 [11 favorites]
Winsome, just read your follow-up regarding his dad has been married 3 times, divorced twice and not doing so great in the 3rd (despite what he says, I can't imagine that this has not had an effect on his attitude about marriage) and at 28 yrs old his longest relationship before me was only of 7 months. Well, no wonder he has some reservations about marriage. And, if I were you, I would have some concerns/questions about the second point.
posted by she's not there at 12:16 AM on July 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by she's not there at 12:16 AM on July 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
And even though I know that I probably should say fuck him and walk away based on his unwillingness, I dont have a switch where i suddenly just stop loving him, regardless.
Here's the thing, though: the first thing does not have to mean the second. By which I mean, you can say "yes, this hurts and I still love him," but you can still leave, if that is truly what makes the most sense here.
I dont want to make such a financial sacrifice of being in debt for someone who is not willing to sacrifice for the relationship.
If staying in this relationship is truly the only reason you're getting this degree, then you're right, you shouldn't stay. But is there really no benefit to you of getting this degree?
posted by lunasol at 12:24 AM on July 21, 2012 [6 favorites]
Here's the thing, though: the first thing does not have to mean the second. By which I mean, you can say "yes, this hurts and I still love him," but you can still leave, if that is truly what makes the most sense here.
I dont want to make such a financial sacrifice of being in debt for someone who is not willing to sacrifice for the relationship.
If staying in this relationship is truly the only reason you're getting this degree, then you're right, you shouldn't stay. But is there really no benefit to you of getting this degree?
posted by lunasol at 12:24 AM on July 21, 2012 [6 favorites]
It's an unfair situation for both of you - it's unfair to make you go into debt to stay in the relationship and it's unfair to make him marry you so that you can stay in the relationship.
Now, if this was a til-death-do-us-part relationship, this wouldn't even be a question - I think you'd be married by now.
I would go home. You were in love, it hurt that it couldn't work out, but I think you need to move on because otherwise you might find yourself in a situation where you are hurt even worse.
posted by heyjude at 12:53 AM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Now, if this was a til-death-do-us-part relationship, this wouldn't even be a question - I think you'd be married by now.
I would go home. You were in love, it hurt that it couldn't work out, but I think you need to move on because otherwise you might find yourself in a situation where you are hurt even worse.
posted by heyjude at 12:53 AM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Dump your boyfriend. Finish your degree!!!
I don't know what is wrong with this fellow, but I do know he is too wishy washy for you to put his much effort into.
You have your act together. He does not. You and he are not compatible. At all. Ever.
I have VERY GOOD personal and intimate experience to be telling you this. Your guy is not on your team - stop being on his - get back to looking out for yourself, only.
My very best to you as you process this disappointing revelation.
Walk away with a great degree and lose the loser you are romantically involved with right now.
Your degree is yours forever. This guy? Not so much.
Doll, BOUNCE.
posted by jbenben at 12:58 AM on July 21, 2012 [24 favorites]
I don't know what is wrong with this fellow, but I do know he is too wishy washy for you to put his much effort into.
You have your act together. He does not. You and he are not compatible. At all. Ever.
I have VERY GOOD personal and intimate experience to be telling you this. Your guy is not on your team - stop being on his - get back to looking out for yourself, only.
My very best to you as you process this disappointing revelation.
Walk away with a great degree and lose the loser you are romantically involved with right now.
Your degree is yours forever. This guy? Not so much.
Doll, BOUNCE.
posted by jbenben at 12:58 AM on July 21, 2012 [24 favorites]
I disagree this situation is unfair or unfortunate for the BF in any way!
My wonderful husband had student visa issues when we met, which I guessed, but he refused to tell me at first. That was a factor from the beginning. We handled this together.
The OP's visa issues have been a factor from the beginning, too. It was irresponsible, lazy, and possibly disingenuous for the OP's BF to let this drag out. He's truly and genuinely been wasting her time, money, and opportunities.
He's not made of solid character. He's a child.
Intimate relationships are not play-time. The OP has shown integrity and commitment, both to herself (college, career) and him. He's just kinda taking advantage of her good will and efforts.
It's a shame. It happens. But in no way is this guy due any more understanding or compromise from the OP at this point.
Sorry, winsome. Truly.
posted by jbenben at 1:07 AM on July 21, 2012 [15 favorites]
My wonderful husband had student visa issues when we met, which I guessed, but he refused to tell me at first. That was a factor from the beginning. We handled this together.
The OP's visa issues have been a factor from the beginning, too. It was irresponsible, lazy, and possibly disingenuous for the OP's BF to let this drag out. He's truly and genuinely been wasting her time, money, and opportunities.
He's not made of solid character. He's a child.
Intimate relationships are not play-time. The OP has shown integrity and commitment, both to herself (college, career) and him. He's just kinda taking advantage of her good will and efforts.
It's a shame. It happens. But in no way is this guy due any more understanding or compromise from the OP at this point.
Sorry, winsome. Truly.
posted by jbenben at 1:07 AM on July 21, 2012 [15 favorites]
I dont have a switch where i suddenly just stop loving him, regardless.
No one does. But as hard as it is you can break off a relationship with someone you still love, if you realize it's wrong (just as you can continue a relationship with someone you don't love, if you realize it's convenient).
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 1:39 AM on July 21, 2012 [7 favorites]
No one does. But as hard as it is you can break off a relationship with someone you still love, if you realize it's wrong (just as you can continue a relationship with someone you don't love, if you realize it's convenient).
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 1:39 AM on July 21, 2012 [7 favorites]
If I were you, I'd be prepared to let this one go. As much as it sucks to realize, if you guys were truly The One for each other, you would *feel* it in his enthusiasm to keep you in his life via whatever alternative works (great examples from other posters, not necessarily marriage). Instead, he doesn't sound like he has the maturity for a serious, committed relationship or he would be able to contribute more to your dilemma than "I love you/don't force me to marry you!" This is crazymaking and you're 100% reasonable to feel hurt by his loving words when his actions do not correspond.
I dont want to make such a financial sacrifice of being in debt for someone who is not willing to sacrifice for the relationship.
Then don't make a financial sacrifice for him or the relationship; make it for you. Have you considered letting the relationship end, finishing your MBA, AND going back to your home country with a strong education and job market potential?
Even if this relationship ends, your time in it doesn't have to be measured in black and white (all this time and effort was for him or nothing). Consider spending these last couple months (1) maturely facing the end of what turned out to be a finite relationship, (2) celebrating your time and learning experiences here, and (3) reclaiming your investment in him/the relationship for yourself. Even if you didn't get a marriage out of these past few years of hard work and investment, give yourself credit for how incredibly successful and motivated a person you are.
he knew from the beginning this is not a normal situation where he’d have all the time in the world for him to make up his mind... I also need to be fair to him... and say that his dad has been married 3 times, divorced twice and not doing so great in the 3rd one. We've talked before and he claims that his dad's situation doesnt influence him...
I will say that if this is part of his baggage, it is striking that the relationship in which he's stayed the longest is one that was always going to have a clear no-fault no-blame expiry date that he wouldn't have to initiate.
Save yourself a substantial amount of self-induced mindf*cks and listen to what he says about himself. Keep the focus on "my dad's divorces do not influence me" and conclude that his current decision is because he's genuinely not keen on marrying you. It's one thing to be reluctant about the institution of marriage; it's completely another to not step up as a supportive, enthusiastic partner when the person you love is dealing with having to leave the country.
posted by human ecologist at 2:01 AM on July 21, 2012 [18 favorites]
I dont want to make such a financial sacrifice of being in debt for someone who is not willing to sacrifice for the relationship.
Then don't make a financial sacrifice for him or the relationship; make it for you. Have you considered letting the relationship end, finishing your MBA, AND going back to your home country with a strong education and job market potential?
Even if this relationship ends, your time in it doesn't have to be measured in black and white (all this time and effort was for him or nothing). Consider spending these last couple months (1) maturely facing the end of what turned out to be a finite relationship, (2) celebrating your time and learning experiences here, and (3) reclaiming your investment in him/the relationship for yourself. Even if you didn't get a marriage out of these past few years of hard work and investment, give yourself credit for how incredibly successful and motivated a person you are.
he knew from the beginning this is not a normal situation where he’d have all the time in the world for him to make up his mind... I also need to be fair to him... and say that his dad has been married 3 times, divorced twice and not doing so great in the 3rd one. We've talked before and he claims that his dad's situation doesnt influence him...
I will say that if this is part of his baggage, it is striking that the relationship in which he's stayed the longest is one that was always going to have a clear no-fault no-blame expiry date that he wouldn't have to initiate.
Save yourself a substantial amount of self-induced mindf*cks and listen to what he says about himself. Keep the focus on "my dad's divorces do not influence me" and conclude that his current decision is because he's genuinely not keen on marrying you. It's one thing to be reluctant about the institution of marriage; it's completely another to not step up as a supportive, enthusiastic partner when the person you love is dealing with having to leave the country.
posted by human ecologist at 2:01 AM on July 21, 2012 [18 favorites]
I am in a somewhat similar situation, in that visas are a big pain in the ass and marriage has been on the table but in our case it doesn't seem to help me any which way.
This is largely dealing with the visa situation: talk to a migration lawyer. There are about a zillion different visas that people don't even realise are possible. This could buy you some time. Also from my personal investigation, apparently scholarships for International students are far easier to find once you've been studying a year. Ask your financial aid dept if they know of any resources.
posted by divabat at 2:08 AM on July 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is largely dealing with the visa situation: talk to a migration lawyer. There are about a zillion different visas that people don't even realise are possible. This could buy you some time. Also from my personal investigation, apparently scholarships for International students are far easier to find once you've been studying a year. Ask your financial aid dept if they know of any resources.
posted by divabat at 2:08 AM on July 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I think you need to separate your decision about your relationship from your decision to stay in this country. His cold feet about marriage, as you talk about in your followup, may have nothing to do with his feelings for you, but rather his experience watching his dad. That is a perfectly legitimate way to feel. You really don't want to marry someone who doesn't want to get married. As you write in your followup, getting married does not solve the immediate financial need that you described in your original post. Instead, it solves "being able to stay in the country and NOT have to be in school to stay legal." While that is true, what about other ways for you to stay in the country without being a student and without getting married? Could you get a work visa?
I think you need to ask yourself what will make you happy. Take the questions apart. Will you be happy in the U.S., with or without boyfriend? Second, will you be happy if you continue this relationship? It's possible for you to be together in your home country, so again, the questions are not related. I think that by conflating the decisions you are essentially forcing him to answer both questions for you, and that's not fair to him or to you.
posted by be11e at 5:08 AM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think you need to ask yourself what will make you happy. Take the questions apart. Will you be happy in the U.S., with or without boyfriend? Second, will you be happy if you continue this relationship? It's possible for you to be together in your home country, so again, the questions are not related. I think that by conflating the decisions you are essentially forcing him to answer both questions for you, and that's not fair to him or to you.
posted by be11e at 5:08 AM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Anyway, I am very heartbroken and cry every time I think about the way he feels, he was also very visibly sad and asked if there was any other way I could stay, that he doesn’t want me to go blah blah but his words at this point are meaningless when it is obvious he is not willing to help me stay here with him.
I don't think you are being fair to your boyfriend. At all. Because, honestly, you are so clearly not making this about being willing to help you but are making it an ultimatum on whether he loves you enough to marry you, right now, forever.
You can get married for love and rockets, or you can get married for visas and health insurance. You actually need the latter but want the former. In order for that to be true, it seems like you would actually have to be in an entirely different relationship.
What I would suggest is that you say to him "Yes, here are the other options, please choose one..."
1) Have a "visa and health insurance" wedding: sign a pre-nup, go to the courthouse, do not invite your family or his, do not tell anyone. Get the piece of paper. This leaves plenty of scope for a proposal, engagement and love and rockets wedding later.
2) He can prioritise you staying over his student loans he is "actively trying to pay off" early, and help you pay for the 2nd year of school. Frankly, this is a MUCH BETTER deal for both of you than #1.
3) Take the loan from the friend for tuition; boyfriend helps support you through 2nd year of MBA.
If he's unwilling to help solve what should be a joint problem, then you know he doesn't have the maturity for a life partnership relationship.
But what I want to say to you is that if your boyfriend isn't willing at this point to make you his family, you need to prioritise the family you have. They have invested heavily in your MBA. You need to do everything you can to justify that investment, and that means finishing any way possible.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:21 AM on July 21, 2012 [18 favorites]
I don't think you are being fair to your boyfriend. At all. Because, honestly, you are so clearly not making this about being willing to help you but are making it an ultimatum on whether he loves you enough to marry you, right now, forever.
You can get married for love and rockets, or you can get married for visas and health insurance. You actually need the latter but want the former. In order for that to be true, it seems like you would actually have to be in an entirely different relationship.
What I would suggest is that you say to him "Yes, here are the other options, please choose one..."
1) Have a "visa and health insurance" wedding: sign a pre-nup, go to the courthouse, do not invite your family or his, do not tell anyone. Get the piece of paper. This leaves plenty of scope for a proposal, engagement and love and rockets wedding later.
2) He can prioritise you staying over his student loans he is "actively trying to pay off" early, and help you pay for the 2nd year of school. Frankly, this is a MUCH BETTER deal for both of you than #1.
3) Take the loan from the friend for tuition; boyfriend helps support you through 2nd year of MBA.
If he's unwilling to help solve what should be a joint problem, then you know he doesn't have the maturity for a life partnership relationship.
But what I want to say to you is that if your boyfriend isn't willing at this point to make you his family, you need to prioritise the family you have. They have invested heavily in your MBA. You need to do everything you can to justify that investment, and that means finishing any way possible.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:21 AM on July 21, 2012 [18 favorites]
Best answer: Most people I know who got married for visa reasons didn't want to. Not that they didn't want to get married at all -- important note, most have already been actively planning to get married -- but that they didn't want it to happen that way -- the quick, no-time-to-think, no guests, highly documented legal paperwork event that doesn't involve an aisle and a white dress and a big party. But for most of them I know (including myself), when it came down to the point that that was the *only* way for two people who love each other to stay in the same country, the answer was "Of course. Of course we'll do this. It's worth it."
So if his answer is not "of course," then he's not into this as much as you are. Note also that even if you got married right now, this would not be the end of your immigration issues. Then there'd be green card applications and interviews, maybe eventually citizenship, the question of which citizenship(s) your potential kid(s) have and/or keep, and then what if you need to move back to your home country because of an ill parent, or for something related to your career, or just because you wanted to? Can you depend on him to have a mature discussion about that and make a decision as a partner with you? Or is he just going to "look sad" and tell you he hopes you figure something out?
Leave him, finish your degree any way you can, and move on with your life. I'm sorry, but speaking as one half of an international relationship, this shit is not easy and you need someone you can depend on to make hard decisions with you.
posted by olinerd at 5:45 AM on July 21, 2012 [10 favorites]
So if his answer is not "of course," then he's not into this as much as you are. Note also that even if you got married right now, this would not be the end of your immigration issues. Then there'd be green card applications and interviews, maybe eventually citizenship, the question of which citizenship(s) your potential kid(s) have and/or keep, and then what if you need to move back to your home country because of an ill parent, or for something related to your career, or just because you wanted to? Can you depend on him to have a mature discussion about that and make a decision as a partner with you? Or is he just going to "look sad" and tell you he hopes you figure something out?
Leave him, finish your degree any way you can, and move on with your life. I'm sorry, but speaking as one half of an international relationship, this shit is not easy and you need someone you can depend on to make hard decisions with you.
posted by olinerd at 5:45 AM on July 21, 2012 [10 favorites]
Best answer: Seconding everyone who has been saying that the man you want to spend the rest of your life with should be rather more pro-active in keeping you in the same country with him!
I know several international couples who didn't relish the thought of getting married just for the paperwork, but did anyway, and are now continuing their relationship at their own pace. Me and my partner are both about to move countries so that we can be together in a third country, after we exhausted all other possibilities.
A marriage should be a partnership where you both want the same thing - where you both want to be together. If he can't make the sacrifice of figuring out a way of feeling comfortable with being married rather than "just" living together as boyfriend and girlfriend (the pre-nup is a good idea), then you do have reason to question his commitment to you.
Have you talked to him about options? About getting a pre-nup written up, and then getting registered without holding a ceremony or anything - just the two of you, just so you can stay with him until such a time as he feels comfortable inviting all your friends and relatives (or a chosen few, if that's what you want) to a formal ceremony where you do the dress and the rings and the cake and very publicly declare your union. I mean, maybe you shouldn't marry for other reasons than mutual wanting to get married, but life can throw a lot of things at you that leave room for all sorts of exceptions. This would be one of those situations.
There is a lot going on in your life, and I hope you get the chance to work out all the questions you must be asking yourself right now. Maybe this guy isn't everything you need him to be for you, but there are still a lot of other things going on with your MBA and such. Cutting ties with him and finishing up the degree no matter what it takes definitely is an option, if your family is so invested in it. And it sounds like you have good friends who would help you even if you broke up with your boyfriend. Whatever you end up doing, I wish you all the best. It sucks that you ended up in this situation, and I'm sorry.
posted by harujion at 6:06 AM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
I know several international couples who didn't relish the thought of getting married just for the paperwork, but did anyway, and are now continuing their relationship at their own pace. Me and my partner are both about to move countries so that we can be together in a third country, after we exhausted all other possibilities.
A marriage should be a partnership where you both want the same thing - where you both want to be together. If he can't make the sacrifice of figuring out a way of feeling comfortable with being married rather than "just" living together as boyfriend and girlfriend (the pre-nup is a good idea), then you do have reason to question his commitment to you.
Have you talked to him about options? About getting a pre-nup written up, and then getting registered without holding a ceremony or anything - just the two of you, just so you can stay with him until such a time as he feels comfortable inviting all your friends and relatives (or a chosen few, if that's what you want) to a formal ceremony where you do the dress and the rings and the cake and very publicly declare your union. I mean, maybe you shouldn't marry for other reasons than mutual wanting to get married, but life can throw a lot of things at you that leave room for all sorts of exceptions. This would be one of those situations.
There is a lot going on in your life, and I hope you get the chance to work out all the questions you must be asking yourself right now. Maybe this guy isn't everything you need him to be for you, but there are still a lot of other things going on with your MBA and such. Cutting ties with him and finishing up the degree no matter what it takes definitely is an option, if your family is so invested in it. And it sounds like you have good friends who would help you even if you broke up with your boyfriend. Whatever you end up doing, I wish you all the best. It sucks that you ended up in this situation, and I'm sorry.
posted by harujion at 6:06 AM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Is it possible that you have been more invested in the relationship than your boyfriend has from the beginning?
Back home just having a college degree from the US is a huge benefit as we do also have several US companies that do business there which offer big reimbursements for employees pursuing their master's degree. So, my hope would be If i were to leave, work for one of those companies or save enough money to pay for the rest of my masters.
It sounds like you have a great opportunity if you go back home. You will also be free to make personal choices that aren't tied up with your visa status, that will be a huge burden lifted.
posted by headnsouth at 6:10 AM on July 21, 2012 [10 favorites]
- You relocated to be where he was.I think the criticism your boyfriend is getting in this thread is unfair. From what you have written, he has been consistent since the beginning. Whether he loves you is irrelevant. He doesn't want to marry you.
- You passed on the job you wanted and took another to be with him.
- You brought up marriage as permanent visa solution and he said no.
- You entered grad school so you could get another student visa and stay with him.
- You brought up marriage again as grad school became less feasible and he again said no.
Back home just having a college degree from the US is a huge benefit as we do also have several US companies that do business there which offer big reimbursements for employees pursuing their master's degree. So, my hope would be If i were to leave, work for one of those companies or save enough money to pay for the rest of my masters.
It sounds like you have a great opportunity if you go back home. You will also be free to make personal choices that aren't tied up with your visa status, that will be a huge burden lifted.
posted by headnsouth at 6:10 AM on July 21, 2012 [10 favorites]
I have been a foreign student with visa issues, and all I have to say is, FINISH YOUR DEGREE, especially as it's an MBA and you say you have months left. As others have said, an MBA is not the type of degree you can take a break from and re-start (possibly many years) later. That said, have you talked to your school's financial aid office, professors, or somebody in administration about your situation? They could arrange some kind of on-campus job that pays for tuition, or come up with a previously unpublicized "scholarship" that covers you for a semester (I have seen both happen). I would even borrow the money from the friend if that is the only option, as it sounds like you could readily find a job and repay the loan once in your home country. You also can't ignore the possibility that completion of the degree will open up more job opportunities for you in the U.S. You realize you are eligible for another 12-months of OPT because you started a new degree program at a higher level (the MBA). Larger companies with experience hiring foreign nationals can take you on with the OPT, then during the OPT period start up the process for an H1B visa. Given that you only have 1 year of full-time work experience, the H1B process will be easier with the MBA than without, and the company might not find you worth the trouble if you don't have the MBA.
You really need to separate out the pros and cons regarding the MBA from your feelings about your boyfriend.
posted by needled at 6:30 AM on July 21, 2012 [10 favorites]
You really need to separate out the pros and cons regarding the MBA from your feelings about your boyfriend.
posted by needled at 6:30 AM on July 21, 2012 [10 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds like you probably already know what's going on here, but need it reaffirmed by outside sources because your heart is in conflict with your head. I get it.
I've been in your situation on both sides - with the guy who 'didn't believe in marriage' (which turned out to mean he had no intention of marrying me, alongside some serious maturity issues), and getting not-very-romantically married to the person I already loved because otherwise I'd have to leave and go back home forever.
In scenario 1, guy talked a big game, in a convincing enough way that I felt we truly loved each other and were serious. Actually, he didn't have any strong feelings for me but as Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth said above, it was convenient. He liked sharing rent on a nice place, and later, paying no rent at all. He liked having someone who would cook and clean, or do so more often than he did. He liked having someone around to offload about work to. He liked having an easy stream of sex and intimacy to shore up his ego, without having to give too much of a fuck. All he had to do was tell me he loved me in a believable way for all this to go on for as long as he liked. When after two and a half years I pressed him not even for marriage, but for a definite reassurance that we had a future together, he crumbled. He 'didn't want a serious relationship'. I was stunned because as far as I was concerned we'd already been in one for a year and a half and I was 29, not some kid just out of undergrad with all the time in the world for messing about with wasters who are just drifting along.
In scenario 2, the guy wasn't too bothered about getting married but then neither was I. However, we knew we loved each other, and for us it meant I got to stay with him, get a work visa (it took literally 10 minutes to process at the airport when we re-entered the country) and access to proper health care. Getting married wasn't a big deal because of course he'd do anything he could so we could stay together. Our wedding was small and fun and honestly, our relationship is exactly the same as it was before. So much so that I still sometimes have a hard time remembering to call him 'husband' instead of boyfriend. The only thing that's changed is now I have papers saying I can work and am given spousal rights by this country's government. FTR, I don't regret it and we don't resent each other. Our actual relationship is our primary concern - the piece of paper is just a formality.
The bottom line here is, three years is long enough to know if you want to marry your partner or not. Not every guy who wants to piss about does it by having sex with as many people as possible, and living together doesn't necessarily mean they're committed to you. Some of them, like my ex, like having low-risk dry-runs with people they're not really invested in.
You've made a huge effort to stay with him and a lot of sacrifices. I believe you made them in good faith and he should've told you he wasn't as invested sooner, but as he always assumed your visa would just eventually run out, he probably thought all that would resolve itself without him having to take responsibility.
If I were you, I'd finish the MBA with whatever financial help I could get, because it's something you'll have forever and to leave now just because of a wishy-washy boyfriend, well, I can see the temptation when you're so upset, but it would be a massive waste. Its also something that will (hopefully) make you more financially stable and accomplished, and along with helping you to get a hopefully more kick-ass career where you can experience real satisfaction, being able to support yourself means having to take significantly less crap from guys.
Good luck, I'm sorry you're going through this. Memail me anytime if you want to chat more.
posted by everydayanewday at 6:54 AM on July 21, 2012 [6 favorites]
I've been in your situation on both sides - with the guy who 'didn't believe in marriage' (which turned out to mean he had no intention of marrying me, alongside some serious maturity issues), and getting not-very-romantically married to the person I already loved because otherwise I'd have to leave and go back home forever.
In scenario 1, guy talked a big game, in a convincing enough way that I felt we truly loved each other and were serious. Actually, he didn't have any strong feelings for me but as Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth said above, it was convenient. He liked sharing rent on a nice place, and later, paying no rent at all. He liked having someone who would cook and clean, or do so more often than he did. He liked having someone around to offload about work to. He liked having an easy stream of sex and intimacy to shore up his ego, without having to give too much of a fuck. All he had to do was tell me he loved me in a believable way for all this to go on for as long as he liked. When after two and a half years I pressed him not even for marriage, but for a definite reassurance that we had a future together, he crumbled. He 'didn't want a serious relationship'. I was stunned because as far as I was concerned we'd already been in one for a year and a half and I was 29, not some kid just out of undergrad with all the time in the world for messing about with wasters who are just drifting along.
In scenario 2, the guy wasn't too bothered about getting married but then neither was I. However, we knew we loved each other, and for us it meant I got to stay with him, get a work visa (it took literally 10 minutes to process at the airport when we re-entered the country) and access to proper health care. Getting married wasn't a big deal because of course he'd do anything he could so we could stay together. Our wedding was small and fun and honestly, our relationship is exactly the same as it was before. So much so that I still sometimes have a hard time remembering to call him 'husband' instead of boyfriend. The only thing that's changed is now I have papers saying I can work and am given spousal rights by this country's government. FTR, I don't regret it and we don't resent each other. Our actual relationship is our primary concern - the piece of paper is just a formality.
The bottom line here is, three years is long enough to know if you want to marry your partner or not. Not every guy who wants to piss about does it by having sex with as many people as possible, and living together doesn't necessarily mean they're committed to you. Some of them, like my ex, like having low-risk dry-runs with people they're not really invested in.
You've made a huge effort to stay with him and a lot of sacrifices. I believe you made them in good faith and he should've told you he wasn't as invested sooner, but as he always assumed your visa would just eventually run out, he probably thought all that would resolve itself without him having to take responsibility.
If I were you, I'd finish the MBA with whatever financial help I could get, because it's something you'll have forever and to leave now just because of a wishy-washy boyfriend, well, I can see the temptation when you're so upset, but it would be a massive waste. Its also something that will (hopefully) make you more financially stable and accomplished, and along with helping you to get a hopefully more kick-ass career where you can experience real satisfaction, being able to support yourself means having to take significantly less crap from guys.
Good luck, I'm sorry you're going through this. Memail me anytime if you want to chat more.
posted by everydayanewday at 6:54 AM on July 21, 2012 [6 favorites]
I suppose at one time I was a lot like your boyfriend. I grew up seeing a lot of family members and friends with awful marriages and divorces that wrecked their lives, including one family member that had a green-card marriage that went very very wrong. You need to look into marriage immigration laws closely and maybe consider meeting with a lawyer or other expert on the subject. In my case, there was no way I could sign the Affidavit of Support, as I was very underemployed at the time and he was not easily employable. It's a huge legal and financial obligation.
His home country had more favorable immigration laws (you could get the equivalent of a green card without marriage) and sometimes I think I made a mistake not just moving there, but in the end I just didn't feel like the relationship was worth that. If your relationship is truly important to your boyfriend, he will either marry you or offer to move back with you to your home country. If he is not offering either one, you need to think about whether or not you are wasting time with someone who is not really committed to your relationship. There is no "switch" to make you fall out of love. It will hurt, but you are hurting your future by wasting time in a relationship that is not going towards the goals you have in mind.
posted by melissam at 7:02 AM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
His home country had more favorable immigration laws (you could get the equivalent of a green card without marriage) and sometimes I think I made a mistake not just moving there, but in the end I just didn't feel like the relationship was worth that. If your relationship is truly important to your boyfriend, he will either marry you or offer to move back with you to your home country. If he is not offering either one, you need to think about whether or not you are wasting time with someone who is not really committed to your relationship. There is no "switch" to make you fall out of love. It will hurt, but you are hurting your future by wasting time in a relationship that is not going towards the goals you have in mind.
posted by melissam at 7:02 AM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: first of all, do everything you reasonably can to finish school. You already invested time and money in it.
Now, there are some things I think you should consider/ask:
- He is presumably aware of the (financial, emotional, cultural) sacrifice you have made in order to extend your time with him. Did he not realize that people only do those things in very, very committed relationships?
- What is his plan, then? Does he have any alternatives to not marrying? Is he willing to have a LDR? A serious one with periodical trips to both countries (a lot of expenses), planned phone calls and obviously no sex other than hand sex? (my feeling is no, and LDRs are HELL unless you both know you are on the same page)
I am really fighting my impetus of telling you to DTMFA and I am trying to be nice, but I am having a hard time with it, mostly because it was so easy for him to string you along and let you ask your parents for money and without mentioning the detail that you he wasn't planning to marry you any time soon BEFORE you spent years of your life living in another country, the bastard.
To contrast, I can tell you that my husband and I KNEW we were getting married after my second visit here (about a year after our relationship started). The rest was more like OK, what can we do to make this as smooth as possible without doing anything stupid like getting deported. And really, that is all it boils down to. You believe in the relationship, and then you make it work. If you don't believe in it ( or you aren't sure) and you are a decent human being, you tell the other person BEFORE they go investing love, time and money on you on a serious scale.
About the immigration process, it is not painless, but it isn't hard unless you have a criminal record, pretty much. When you are here it's just a matter of adjusting your status, if you are back home you can get a fiancee visa, or get married there and get a wife visa. In our case fiancee worked best, because I couldn't legally use my tourist visa with intent of staying. And yeah, we probably wouldn't have gotten married so soon if we lived in the same country, but international relationships are complicated and different, because any decision "normal" relationships go through has an added weight of potentially affecting whether you will be together or not (sometimes forever). International relationships are hard because there aren't "breaks" or "time offs" and one of the parties has a seriously diminished support network. So it isn't nearly as simple as Sidhedevil says.
But consider taking the loan from a friend (if you think you can repay it) and get your degree. I have the feeling that your having a different passport has only accelerated the arrival of a problem that was there anyway.
posted by Tarumba at 7:53 AM on July 21, 2012 [5 favorites]
Now, there are some things I think you should consider/ask:
- He is presumably aware of the (financial, emotional, cultural) sacrifice you have made in order to extend your time with him. Did he not realize that people only do those things in very, very committed relationships?
- What is his plan, then? Does he have any alternatives to not marrying? Is he willing to have a LDR? A serious one with periodical trips to both countries (a lot of expenses), planned phone calls and obviously no sex other than hand sex? (my feeling is no, and LDRs are HELL unless you both know you are on the same page)
I am really fighting my impetus of telling you to DTMFA and I am trying to be nice, but I am having a hard time with it, mostly because it was so easy for him to string you along and let you ask your parents for money and without mentioning the detail that you he wasn't planning to marry you any time soon BEFORE you spent years of your life living in another country, the bastard.
To contrast, I can tell you that my husband and I KNEW we were getting married after my second visit here (about a year after our relationship started). The rest was more like OK, what can we do to make this as smooth as possible without doing anything stupid like getting deported. And really, that is all it boils down to. You believe in the relationship, and then you make it work. If you don't believe in it ( or you aren't sure) and you are a decent human being, you tell the other person BEFORE they go investing love, time and money on you on a serious scale.
About the immigration process, it is not painless, but it isn't hard unless you have a criminal record, pretty much. When you are here it's just a matter of adjusting your status, if you are back home you can get a fiancee visa, or get married there and get a wife visa. In our case fiancee worked best, because I couldn't legally use my tourist visa with intent of staying. And yeah, we probably wouldn't have gotten married so soon if we lived in the same country, but international relationships are complicated and different, because any decision "normal" relationships go through has an added weight of potentially affecting whether you will be together or not (sometimes forever). International relationships are hard because there aren't "breaks" or "time offs" and one of the parties has a seriously diminished support network. So it isn't nearly as simple as Sidhedevil says.
But consider taking the loan from a friend (if you think you can repay it) and get your degree. I have the feeling that your having a different passport has only accelerated the arrival of a problem that was there anyway.
posted by Tarumba at 7:53 AM on July 21, 2012 [5 favorites]
I would tell him that you understand where he's coming from, but this isn't a "real" marriage. It's just for you to stay here. You can both divorce next year and have a risk free pre-nup. This boils the question down to "do you see yourself with me for another year?" If he hedges on that question, then he's really not interested in seeing you any longer. Unfortunately, I fear the answer is going to be that he isn't.
He may not have meant to, but there is a strong possibility he's been leading you along. I've seen this happen before and it's truly awful. Keep your chin up and start thinking about a positive future without him.
posted by xammerboy at 9:20 AM on July 21, 2012
He may not have meant to, but there is a strong possibility he's been leading you along. I've seen this happen before and it's truly awful. Keep your chin up and start thinking about a positive future without him.
posted by xammerboy at 9:20 AM on July 21, 2012
Unless I missed something when I went though this, a pre-nup does not affect the Affidavit of Support. Divorce also does not nullify it.
posted by melissam at 12:01 PM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by melissam at 12:01 PM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
I totally understand why your boyfriend feels backed into a corner on this, and why with his father's history he wouldn't want to go into a marriage under these circumstances. It's only been a year since he said he was not ready for marriage, and now he has to do it for you to stay. did you discuss with him a year ago the fact that you only had enough financial help to get through the first year of grad school? Did he think you were fine to stay in the country until you graduated, and that he had another year before this became an issue? I don't think it's fair to say that he should have known all along that he would have to marry you- maybe he thought you could graduate and get a job and stay, while your relationship progressed. Or maybe he is an ass that strung you along. At any rate, he does seem to want to help you, but you only want one kind of help, ie getting married. It's clear he's not ready for whatever reason. I agree with the poster above who said you want the romantic kind of marriage, but you're using the necessary marriage to try and achieve that. If he understands that you want a true love marriage that both of you feel strong and secure about, it would be unfair of him to marry you under different circumstances.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:09 PM on July 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 12:09 PM on July 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks to all of you for the replies. There are so many different valid points all of you have brought up which definitely need more consideration. This "You really need to separate out the pros and cons regarding the MBA from your feelings about your boyfriend." is definitely one of the biggest point.
To clear some things up, I do want to say that him and I both assumed that I would complete my masters with no issues, there was no way that I would have known that due to some issues back home my parents would not be able to continue to help me financially. It literally was like from one day to the next that I received the news, which was 2 1/2 weeks ago. I absolutely do not want to marry solely based on getting a green card. As i said, I love him and except for this dilemma we have been very happy, I am not looking to stay here because I want to be another immigrant (no offense to anyone, the states is great but I could be happy at home too) my reason to want to stay is to be with the person I love, but with his hesitation I am not even sure if I should make that reason my priority. It is also very hard to consider the fact that he might have been stringing me along like some of you have stated but at the same time I have never had a reason to believe that before this.
When we were in different states, he would be the one always traveling to see me while I was in college, he also paid for my airplane tickets the times I went to see him. He also surprised me last October by going to my home country while I was there two weeks spending time with family, and a lot of other gestures that made me believe that he was committed.
To answer some of your questions, he did say he would like to continue in the relationship even if it was long distance however, I honestly do not how I would get past his refusal to marry me, and to just let me go half across the world, I wouldn't want to be in any relationship LD or not, that's fill with resentment. And I know, it is in my power whether I feel resentful or not but being far apart would mean less time to work on getting over things.
I will keep you updated on what happens, my sister is coming to visit so hopefully spending time with family will help me gain more perspective. Again thanks to all.
posted by winsome at 2:13 PM on July 21, 2012
To clear some things up, I do want to say that him and I both assumed that I would complete my masters with no issues, there was no way that I would have known that due to some issues back home my parents would not be able to continue to help me financially. It literally was like from one day to the next that I received the news, which was 2 1/2 weeks ago. I absolutely do not want to marry solely based on getting a green card. As i said, I love him and except for this dilemma we have been very happy, I am not looking to stay here because I want to be another immigrant (no offense to anyone, the states is great but I could be happy at home too) my reason to want to stay is to be with the person I love, but with his hesitation I am not even sure if I should make that reason my priority. It is also very hard to consider the fact that he might have been stringing me along like some of you have stated but at the same time I have never had a reason to believe that before this.
When we were in different states, he would be the one always traveling to see me while I was in college, he also paid for my airplane tickets the times I went to see him. He also surprised me last October by going to my home country while I was there two weeks spending time with family, and a lot of other gestures that made me believe that he was committed.
To answer some of your questions, he did say he would like to continue in the relationship even if it was long distance however, I honestly do not how I would get past his refusal to marry me, and to just let me go half across the world, I wouldn't want to be in any relationship LD or not, that's fill with resentment. And I know, it is in my power whether I feel resentful or not but being far apart would mean less time to work on getting over things.
I will keep you updated on what happens, my sister is coming to visit so hopefully spending time with family will help me gain more perspective. Again thanks to all.
posted by winsome at 2:13 PM on July 21, 2012
Best answer: He can be committed but still not ready to get married. You are still taking the attitude of "well if he doesn't love me enough" when it may have nothing to do with you. You are seeing it as a rejection of you, rather than "I am not, at 28, ready to make a lifelong commitment to anyone at all." Your additional data supports this as a sound possibility.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:52 PM on July 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 3:52 PM on July 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
If he wasn't ready to make a lifelong commitment, he should have told her before she put her life on hold to move to a new country and pay American tuition, which is more expensive than most countries, even worse for international students. I think this all boils down to respect and not playing with some else's life when deep down you know you aren't on the same page.
I don't want to sound all Sense and Sensibility about this but he seriously led her on and many people in her situation would have assumed marriage was a given.
posted by Tarumba at 5:27 PM on July 21, 2012 [9 favorites]
I don't want to sound all Sense and Sensibility about this but he seriously led her on and many people in her situation would have assumed marriage was a given.
posted by Tarumba at 5:27 PM on July 21, 2012 [9 favorites]
I don't think many US nationals of that age bracket would "assume marriage was a given" if another US national relocated within the US to be with them, Tarumba. I think where the boyfriend erred was in not considering the extra level of commitment and sacrifice the OP was taking on by moving countries to be with him.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:01 PM on July 21, 2012
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:01 PM on July 21, 2012
Best answer: If he wasn't ready to make a lifelong commitment, he should have told her before she put her life on hold to move to a new country and pay American tuition, which is more expensive than most countries, even worse for international students.
Where does it say that she left another country for him? She moved from NYC to Dallas after they had been dating for six months.
Regardless, LDR people often move in together before knowing for certain that they want to spend their entire lives together. It's not fair to expect someone to be ready for marriage after a six month LDR no matter where they are. Sure, some people have done it after less time and have been happily married &c, but why you expect everyone to be like that? I also disagree that finishing college and starting an MBA is "putting (one's) life on hold", but we can agree to disagree on that.
When we were in different states, he would be the one always traveling to see me while I was in college, he also paid for my airplane tickets the times I went to see him. He also surprised me last October by going to my home country while I was there two weeks spending time with family, and a lot of other gestures that made me believe that he was committed.
He probably was/is committed to being with you and loving you, but that is not the same as getting married for a visa. I understand this is a hard and painful time for you, but he's told you this feels like an ultimatum. No one should ever be pressured into marrying someone else, that is a recipe for an unhappy marriage from the beginning. I know you are not actively trying to do such a thing, and I know it's hurtful to not have him jump up in this situation and propose to you. It's so much better that he is being honest rather than doing something he may not be ready for, because a divorce after an unhappy marriage is far worse than not getting married at all. Some people, even when they love someone else, are very worried about getting it wrong, especially if they've seen bad marriages up close. You say you have made sacrifices to be with him, but do you really want your marriage to be a sacrifice for him?
I really think DarlingBri lays out the best way to approach this. There may be ways to work together so that you can figure out a way to stay without a rushed green card marriage. The willingness to figure it out is going to tell you a lot more about how he feels about the situation, and it may also show him that you two work well together to overcome adversity, something he may not have seen with his father's marriages. The advantage to you is that you finish your MBA and you two don't marry when he's not ready. The disadvantage is that he may still not be ready to get married when you've finished. You need to decide if trying to work through this issue together and gaining an MBA is worth the potential heartbreak and money issues.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:12 PM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Where does it say that she left another country for him? She moved from NYC to Dallas after they had been dating for six months.
Regardless, LDR people often move in together before knowing for certain that they want to spend their entire lives together. It's not fair to expect someone to be ready for marriage after a six month LDR no matter where they are. Sure, some people have done it after less time and have been happily married &c, but why you expect everyone to be like that? I also disagree that finishing college and starting an MBA is "putting (one's) life on hold", but we can agree to disagree on that.
When we were in different states, he would be the one always traveling to see me while I was in college, he also paid for my airplane tickets the times I went to see him. He also surprised me last October by going to my home country while I was there two weeks spending time with family, and a lot of other gestures that made me believe that he was committed.
He probably was/is committed to being with you and loving you, but that is not the same as getting married for a visa. I understand this is a hard and painful time for you, but he's told you this feels like an ultimatum. No one should ever be pressured into marrying someone else, that is a recipe for an unhappy marriage from the beginning. I know you are not actively trying to do such a thing, and I know it's hurtful to not have him jump up in this situation and propose to you. It's so much better that he is being honest rather than doing something he may not be ready for, because a divorce after an unhappy marriage is far worse than not getting married at all. Some people, even when they love someone else, are very worried about getting it wrong, especially if they've seen bad marriages up close. You say you have made sacrifices to be with him, but do you really want your marriage to be a sacrifice for him?
I really think DarlingBri lays out the best way to approach this. There may be ways to work together so that you can figure out a way to stay without a rushed green card marriage. The willingness to figure it out is going to tell you a lot more about how he feels about the situation, and it may also show him that you two work well together to overcome adversity, something he may not have seen with his father's marriages. The advantage to you is that you finish your MBA and you two don't marry when he's not ready. The disadvantage is that he may still not be ready to get married when you've finished. You need to decide if trying to work through this issue together and gaining an MBA is worth the potential heartbreak and money issues.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:12 PM on July 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't think many US nationals of that age bracket would "assume marriage was a given" if another US national relocated within the US to be with them, Tarumba
I disagree. If I began a relationship with someone of non-permanent status I might not give it much thought....but at around 6 months, if the relationship was still going along, the issue of a green card marriage would start to creep into my mind.
I would feel pretty freaking awful with myself if I let the relationship go on for a year - nevermind three - without bringing up the topic. As a functional, caring individual I would want to know what my partner was planning long-term, and what they thought my role was in their plans. This doesn't mean I have to go along with what they want, but if that's what they're planning, I would owe it to them to discuss whether it is or is not happening so they can move on with their lives.
So while I don't think, "is this a green card relationship!" will enter my mind the first moment I go out with someone, letting it go on for three years without thinking of this shows either a tremendous lack of respect or a tremendous amount naivete. Especially at 28 - he's not some 22 year old new to the ways of the world - or, at least, he shouldn't be.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 10:48 PM on July 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
I disagree. If I began a relationship with someone of non-permanent status I might not give it much thought....but at around 6 months, if the relationship was still going along, the issue of a green card marriage would start to creep into my mind.
I would feel pretty freaking awful with myself if I let the relationship go on for a year - nevermind three - without bringing up the topic. As a functional, caring individual I would want to know what my partner was planning long-term, and what they thought my role was in their plans. This doesn't mean I have to go along with what they want, but if that's what they're planning, I would owe it to them to discuss whether it is or is not happening so they can move on with their lives.
So while I don't think, "is this a green card relationship!" will enter my mind the first moment I go out with someone, letting it go on for three years without thinking of this shows either a tremendous lack of respect or a tremendous amount naivete. Especially at 28 - he's not some 22 year old new to the ways of the world - or, at least, he shouldn't be.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 10:48 PM on July 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
he was also very visibly sad and asked if there was any other way I could stay, that he doesn’t want me to go
OK, now this strikes me as more than a little odd. I mean, this is a reaction I would expect from a sympathetic stranger, or a distant friend, but a live-in partner?
I do not live in the US, but I do have acquaintances who needed a permit to stay where I live. If any good friend of mine, not even a partner, was in such a predicament, I would make an appointment with an immigration lawyer by myself to discover what his/her options were and what I could possibly do to help. Contact local expat community, whatever.
I do not think he necessarily meant to string you along but, as one previous poster mentioned, subconsciously he may have regarded this relationship as one with a built-in expiration date. If he is indeed commitment-phobic, the perspective of a built-in excuse to not continue the relationship without having to make the explicit decision to break it off might have been what lessened his anxiety about the relationship progressing beyond what he was used to.
Not sure what I would do in your place. I think I'd just tell him I felt hurt that he was not offering any significant support. Marriage is one thing, and I could maybe understand if he was fundamentally opposed to marriage or something - I don't know. But looking sad is not support, IMO. Neither is asking you what you can do to solve this problem.
posted by M. at 1:03 AM on July 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
OK, now this strikes me as more than a little odd. I mean, this is a reaction I would expect from a sympathetic stranger, or a distant friend, but a live-in partner?
I do not live in the US, but I do have acquaintances who needed a permit to stay where I live. If any good friend of mine, not even a partner, was in such a predicament, I would make an appointment with an immigration lawyer by myself to discover what his/her options were and what I could possibly do to help. Contact local expat community, whatever.
I do not think he necessarily meant to string you along but, as one previous poster mentioned, subconsciously he may have regarded this relationship as one with a built-in expiration date. If he is indeed commitment-phobic, the perspective of a built-in excuse to not continue the relationship without having to make the explicit decision to break it off might have been what lessened his anxiety about the relationship progressing beyond what he was used to.
Not sure what I would do in your place. I think I'd just tell him I felt hurt that he was not offering any significant support. Marriage is one thing, and I could maybe understand if he was fundamentally opposed to marriage or something - I don't know. But looking sad is not support, IMO. Neither is asking you what you can do to solve this problem.
posted by M. at 1:03 AM on July 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
I don't think many US nationals of that age bracket would "assume marriage was a given" if another US national relocated within the US to be with them, Tarumba
(because I misread what you said before)
1) letting someone fly across the country for you when you're iffy on the relationship is a crap move. If someone does it without asking, that's on them, but if they even give you one line of notice that they're about to drastically change their current life for you and you don't say anything - it's crappy. Even between two citizens it'd be pretty jerky to let someone fly across the country then go, "bwuhhh?!" at the idea of marriage. Honestly, if I knew anyone that had done that, I would not hesitate to give them a verbal smack-down for their callousness.
2) but still we're not dealing with two nationals - we're dealing with a citizen and a visitor
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 2:33 AM on July 22, 2012
(because I misread what you said before)
1) letting someone fly across the country for you when you're iffy on the relationship is a crap move. If someone does it without asking, that's on them, but if they even give you one line of notice that they're about to drastically change their current life for you and you don't say anything - it's crappy. Even between two citizens it'd be pretty jerky to let someone fly across the country then go, "bwuhhh?!" at the idea of marriage. Honestly, if I knew anyone that had done that, I would not hesitate to give them a verbal smack-down for their callousness.
2) but still we're not dealing with two nationals - we're dealing with a citizen and a visitor
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 2:33 AM on July 22, 2012
letting it go on for three years without thinking of this shows either a tremendous lack of respect or a tremendous amount naivete.
We don't know what the boyfriend thought at any stage of this story, and we only know what the OP has said. I don't think it's fair to assume that the boyfriend never thought or said or took action about or was invested in any way in the relationship. In fact, by the OP's comments, he appears rather conflicted about it, not disrespectful or naive.
If any good friend of mine, not even a partner, was in such a predicament, I would make an appointment with an immigration lawyer by myself to discover what his/her options were and what I could possibly do to help.
Unless she were a child or incapacitated in some way, I can't see why anyone would go to see an immigration attorney on her behalf. The OP is an adult MBA student and appears to have a good understanding of her visa options. She doesn't need friends or lovers calling immigration attorneys on her behalf.
letting someone fly across the country for you when you're iffy on the relationship is a crap move.
Again, the OP is an adult. Her boyfriend didn't "let" her fly across the country. She made a decision to do so. If she finishes school she'll have an MBA and a wealth of experience in the U.S. She'll also have a broken heart, which will heal in time, and she'll meet someone new, and with luck neither of them will have circumstances that compel them to get married.
posted by headnsouth at 6:19 AM on July 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
We don't know what the boyfriend thought at any stage of this story, and we only know what the OP has said. I don't think it's fair to assume that the boyfriend never thought or said or took action about or was invested in any way in the relationship. In fact, by the OP's comments, he appears rather conflicted about it, not disrespectful or naive.
If any good friend of mine, not even a partner, was in such a predicament, I would make an appointment with an immigration lawyer by myself to discover what his/her options were and what I could possibly do to help.
Unless she were a child or incapacitated in some way, I can't see why anyone would go to see an immigration attorney on her behalf. The OP is an adult MBA student and appears to have a good understanding of her visa options. She doesn't need friends or lovers calling immigration attorneys on her behalf.
letting someone fly across the country for you when you're iffy on the relationship is a crap move.
Again, the OP is an adult. Her boyfriend didn't "let" her fly across the country. She made a decision to do so. If she finishes school she'll have an MBA and a wealth of experience in the U.S. She'll also have a broken heart, which will heal in time, and she'll meet someone new, and with luck neither of them will have circumstances that compel them to get married.
posted by headnsouth at 6:19 AM on July 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
She made these (life changing) decisions under the impression that the relationship was solid and headed to serious commitment. Which is what anybody would have thought if their SO had not spoken up when they spent tens of thousands of dollars to be with them. Mind you, not only did he not speak up, he was visibly upset and sad at her having to leave. This is what we are criticizing. All he had to do was tell her how he felt about commitment at the right time. Do you think she would have made the same decision if she had that piece of information?
Also, you'd be surprised at the amount of couples who go together to see lawyer together, again, because both parties are interested. It's like a rite of passage, even, since it's when you officially are thinking long-term. Also, the American citizen is usually the one asking the questions since they speak the language better and know how things usually work in the country. I work at an immigration office. I see it all the time. It's quite cute.
we only know what the OP has said
Of course we do. That is how AskMe works. By your own logic, if she is capable of making her own decisions even when misinformed then let's assume she's also capable of writing a question that portrays all the relevant information to the subject until she tells us otherwise.
posted by Tarumba at 7:34 AM on July 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also, you'd be surprised at the amount of couples who go together to see lawyer together, again, because both parties are interested. It's like a rite of passage, even, since it's when you officially are thinking long-term. Also, the American citizen is usually the one asking the questions since they speak the language better and know how things usually work in the country. I work at an immigration office. I see it all the time. It's quite cute.
we only know what the OP has said
Of course we do. That is how AskMe works. By your own logic, if she is capable of making her own decisions even when misinformed then let's assume she's also capable of writing a question that portrays all the relevant information to the subject until she tells us otherwise.
posted by Tarumba at 7:34 AM on July 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
@Winsome, how did everything turn out and what did you decide? I just joined the site and am curious as to the outcome because this story hits close to home for me
posted by lilacp at 11:03 PM on August 2, 2012
posted by lilacp at 11:03 PM on August 2, 2012
Response by poster: Just a quick update. About two weeks ago my bf asked me to go see an immigration lawyer together he had made an appointment and everything. About a week after that he had bought a ring and apologized about the way he handled things but did say he wanted to wait to announce it to friends until we can have a ceremony and a party to invite them to. We set a date to go to the courthouse with his parents and mine for november(give enough time for my parents to come here). Regarding school, we were able to get a small loan (he cosigned it) to continue school while we get through the immigration process. To anyone on this situation, my advise is to be patient, honest and communicate with your SO. The most important thing is that both of you know from the start what you are getting into and what are your expectations for the relationship. Thank you everyone that replied to the question.
posted by winsome at 1:49 PM on August 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by winsome at 1:49 PM on August 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
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This is only a shot in the dark, but have you considered offering him a prenup? Marriage is a huge financial risk, and if you were willing to contractually minimize that risk it might incentivize him to take the plunge.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 9:45 PM on July 20, 2012 [2 favorites]