Need help regarding older guy and my daughter's online 'relationship'
July 18, 2012 2:02 PM   Subscribe

My daughter's infatuated with her online friend who turns out to probably be MUCH older than she. Looking for guidance on handling this situation.

My ex-wife took her family on a vacation to visit relatives several hours away, including my daughter. My daughter was actually advocating to go on this trip which otherwise to a teenager sounded all right, but not all that exciting. As we discover, there was an ulterior motive involved. She's been chatting with this guy online for a few years who she calls a friend. It turns out that this friend lives in a town about an hour's drive from their vacation destination and the two of them concocted a plan to meet in secret during the trip. She went out to 'meet a friend' and didn't come back for a few hours, during which my ex-wife discovered all of this and the whole plan unraveled for my daughter when my ex-wife put two and two together and went through the family laptop on my daughter's profile.

It turns out that we have now discovered this 'friend' is of an indeterminate age possibly in his 30s, and my daughter is 17. She was 14 when they started chatting which is slimy as hell in my opinion. 16 is the age of legal consent for two partners of any age in Canada (where we are), so there is no legal barrier if they decided to do anything going forward, but obviously I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable with everything about this. We know almost nothing about this guy except a possible name/alias and have a couple of phone numbers, one of which is a cellphone that is confirmed to be his.

Obviously we don't want her to have additional contact with him but the more we rail against this guy it seems the more determined she is to talk to him. She claims she didn't mention anything about his age because she doesn't know his exact age and also didn't want us 'making judgments'. She also tells us that she has feelings for this guy. Arbitarily cutting off her internet access would only work as long as she's in the house and unless we're going to ground her every single minute until school starts in the fall, there are ways for her to get in contact if she leaves the house. And grounding a 17 year old for a whole summer might just provoke the opposite to the desired effect. I still remember when I was growing up my sister ended up moving out when she was 17 over a guy who was also sketchy as hell, but only a few years older than her, I sure as hell don't want to see a repeat of that here.

I'm looking for ideas on how to handle this, as well as how best to use the meager information we do have to get additional information on this guy. After all, he started chatting with a 14 year old girl for hours on end and he's in his 30s, that tells me he's up to no good at all. Is this someting a private investigator would be able to help with? Because of her current age, I don't believe the police would have any interest in this right now, am I incorrect on that? Anyone dealt with a similar situation before?
posted by barc0001 to Human Relations (47 answers total) 18 users marked this as a favorite
 
"I don't believe the police would have any interest in this right now"

One way to find out. Even a basic inquiry could be enough to drive the guy away.
posted by Ardiril at 2:08 PM on July 18, 2012 [6 favorites]


Yes, you can at least talk to the police and casually mention that to your daughter. The news will travel. He did initiate talks when she was 14. Curious why they haven't met until now. Find out everything you can about him. She might have his phone number also and they should be talking over the phone too.
posted by pakora1 at 2:11 PM on July 18, 2012 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Oh, how right you are.

I'd totally hire a private investigator. They can find out who this guy is, if there's a criminal record, a spouse, and any other savory and unsavory details. It may be a few hundred bucks well spent. These days there should be some PIs out there who are brilliant at finding out stuff about cyber-skeeves.

I'd suggest having your daughter invite this guy over to meet the family. If he's as honest, moral and upstanding as she thinks he is, then it shouldn't be a problem. Sure it's a drive, but you know, if they're in LURV he should be happy to drive on out.

Also, ask your daughter to get his whole name, address, telephone number, work place, etc. Approach it with logic, "If this guy is on the up-and-up, he shouldn't have an issue with providing the info, right sweetums? After all, if you're wanting to date him, shouldn't we know who he is?"

Your daughter is one year away from being legally able to decide all of these things for herself, teach her how to be skeptical of people, especially people on line, or she might end up as one of those girls who will fall for anything.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 2:11 PM on July 18, 2012 [78 favorites]


My brother-in-law spends his days and nights catching men like this one. Unfortunately, he is in Florida and I am not sure that can help. I think you should contact the local authorities since there may be a chance they can still stop the contact legally. Try this link. There is a link for child exploitation. It looks like there is something to help you on that page.

I am so anxious for you.
posted by Yellow at 2:13 PM on July 18, 2012


Given that it's impossible these days to cut off, effectively and forever, someone's internet or telephone access without imprisoning them, I would suggest two strategies. One, you could look for a group or a few individuals, either near you or online, who have been in similar situations and who will talk frankly to your daughter about just how their underage online infatuations with likely-shady older guys turned out. Two, I would attempt to gain control over further interactions by being gung-ho supportive of she and Internet Guy meeting up for coffee. With you. Chances are excellent that that conversation will kill the mystery and allure, and you will have more information if you need it afterwards in order to direct the police his way.
posted by notquitemaryann at 2:14 PM on July 18, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'd suggest having your daughter invite this guy over to meet the family. If he's as honest, moral and upstanding as she thinks he is, then it shouldn't be a problem. Sure it's a drive, but you know, if they're in LURV he should be happy to drive on out.

Also, ask your daughter to get his whole name, address, telephone number, work place, etc. Approach it with logic, "If this guy is on the up-and-up, he shouldn't have an issue with providing the info, right sweetums? After all, if you're wanting to date him, shouldn't we know who he is?"


This was going to be my my exact advice. Accomplishes two things: 1) removes the "forbidden fruit" appeal factor, and 2) makes his intentions clear if he has no interest in meeting the family.
posted by Rock Steady at 2:15 PM on July 18, 2012 [14 favorites]


I really like the idea of inviting him to dinner. There does exist a small possibility that he's a great guy and they originally bonded over their mutual love for The Black Eyed Peas or something and age wasn't originally a consideration. A small chance. If he comes, you get to meet him and find out what's up. If he won't (or freaks and clams up), there you go.

I'm afraid you've limited options by "railing" at her already. You could have curiously asked about how they originally started talking, etc. and gotten more accurate information, but that ship has probably sailed.
posted by cmoj at 2:17 PM on July 18, 2012 [8 favorites]


I suggest backing off of this guy, keeping your mouth shut, and then doing everything you can to facilitate any activities she would be interested in that are incompatible with her obsessing over this guy. She should be busy doing things that don't involve prolonged computer/phone time. If there are cute boys her own age, all the better.

This was going to be my advice. It's a weird time in the summer for her to get a job if she doesn't already have one, but does she need to improve her scores on any college admissions tests? Has she ever expressed an interest in ANY kind of hobby like acting, dance, photography, art, learning a language? Does the local hospital need candystripers? Is there a political campaign happening that needs someone to hand out flyers? Animal shelter need somebody to walk the puppies? Does she play sports? If not, now is the time to learn! Etc, etc, etc.

This guy seems really romantic because he's older and probably has a job, etc. The more she spends time being awesome on her own, the more kind of sad and pathetic this guy will (hopefully) seem eventually.

In a helpful and NOT PUNITIVE way, you might consider getting your daughter a therapist. Frame it as her having someone to talk to who isn't taking sides on the matter, someone to hear her side of things and help her. She is genuinely a victim here, and she does deserve help and care.

I like this advice, too.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 2:21 PM on July 18, 2012 [2 favorites]


Someone in my family went through this when I was a teenager, and I don't think nearly enough measures were taken to protect the person who was underage. I'd say go to the police and ask about it, being sure to include the fact that they were in touch since she was 14, go to a private investigator both to investigate the dude AND have a look at the computer for to see if there's a record of anything close to enticement, and group therapy.

I understand the appeal of inviting this guy to dinner, but it might be a good idea to hold off until you have some info on him via a private investigator, like where he works and additional details about him that you can either deploy strategically or keep to yourself to compare against what he reveals.
posted by alphanerd at 2:31 PM on July 18, 2012 [4 favorites]


Best answer: I'd take the shotgun approach of hiring a P.I., and assuming it doesn't turn up anything truly terrible, inviting him to dinner.

Your daughter is very close to becoming an adult. If she were still 14, it would be a different matter, but she's not. And you aren't sure how old this guy is- he could be just a few years older, which, again, at 17 is not a huge deal the way it is at 14.

I am NOT advocating for encouraging this relationship, but you are in a bit of sticky wicket here. You are going to have to let her work out for herself if he's a sleeze or not. Her parents insisting that he is, in fact, a scumbag is going to have a limited effect.

And for God's sake, yes, make sure she either has or can get birth control, preferably something long acting and not easily reversible. That is to say, not just condoms and not the pill. Sketchy boyfriends have been poking holes and stealing compacts since time immemorial. Of course, do not frame it this way. Point out that the real world failure rate of the pill is comparable to that of withdrawal (which is totally true). Depo, Implanon, or an IUD would be my top picks.

And yeah, if you can suggest and get her to agree to see a therapist, awesome.
posted by Athene at 2:42 PM on July 18, 2012 [4 favorites]


Is there a reason why you can't discuss this with your daughter at all?
posted by rhizome at 2:43 PM on July 18, 2012


Nthing the suggestion to invite him over and get to know him. It is not an unreasonable request and is something you would probably ask regardless of this guy's age or sketch factor. If he balks, clearly this does not have the same significance to him and he'll probably disappear relatively quickly. If he does accept your invitation, at least you'll get to meet him and size him up yourself. Anything you can do to increase transparency will keep you informed and won't push your daughter simultaneously away from you and closer to him.

I would also quietly look into what the statue of limitations is on his contact with her when she was underage. His contact with her today may not be illegal, but his contact with her from ages 14-16 very well might be and could still be prosecutable.

Anecdotally, when I was in high school, I knew a few teenage girls who were involved with men in their late 20s and 30s. Yes, it was sketchy as hell, but there was no telling them that. These relationships eventually ran their course and didn't cause any lasting damage. When we've talked about it some 15 years or so later, they realize how sketchy these guys were and chalk it up to a learning experience. Not the most reassuring thing, I know, but it might serve as some consolation that it is possible to eventually see these guys for who they are and emerge relatively unscathed. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 2:43 PM on July 18, 2012


I was the teenager in this situation a decade or so ago. I had quite a few guys that I talked to online who, in retrospect, were totally creepy but I couldn't see it at the time. I think coming down hard on your daughter is just going to result in her resenting you for doing nothing wrong. And she hasn't done anything wrong - he has, maybe, but that's not her fault.

Your best bet in this is to target the guy, not your daughter - PI + dinner sounds like a great way to suss out and scare off any potential creeps. Since you have his cell phone number, you could give him a call and see what he has to say. If he has a family, you can track them down and tell them.. that should take care of it right quick.

Also, to be fair, I did have a couple of friends in their 30s while I was a teen that were truly just friendships, nothing weird about them in retrospect. But the other type were the majority.
posted by zug at 3:04 PM on July 18, 2012 [5 favorites]


I was the teenager in this situation a decade or so ago. I had quite a few guys that I talked to online who, in retrospect, were totally creepy but I couldn't see it at the time. I think coming down hard on your daughter is just going to result in her resenting you for doing nothing wrong. And she hasn't done anything wrong - he has, maybe, but that's not her fault.

Me too. And the creepy dude actually came over for dinner. And seeing him with my family, I had the sudden realization that he was completely utterly creepy, particularly when conversing with my parents. And I never spoke to him again.
posted by melissam at 3:08 PM on July 18, 2012 [19 favorites]


I would have her phone(s?) and computers combed for inappropriate photos sent to/from this fellow.

The police or private investigator can do this.

If their were inappropriate photos, or requests from him to her for photos, I'm pretty sure that would mean automatic jail time for him.

Your daughter has been victimized. I would look into resources that gently help teenagers like your daughter.

Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 3:13 PM on July 18, 2012


I was your daughter at one point during my teen years. Your instincts are right that the more you try to turn your daughter away, the more convinced she has found her true soulmate whom she must be with for all time. She's not going to see it. It's in the teenage DNA.

The key here is to make your daughter as undesirable a target for skeevers as possible. +1 to the suggestions to do exactly the opposite and "get to know him." Show a cheerful interest in your daughter's new "boyfriend." Invite him to dinner. Chat with him on the phone (getting his personal info while you're at it). Make a family outing to visit the special someone her life. The more outrageous and family chummy the better. Make it clear any contact with your daughter is going to mean the ENTIRE FAMILY knowing who you are and what you're doing. That'd drive off all but the most naive and harmless 30-something dude on the internet.

And when he disappears, buy your daughter all the ice cream and emo music she wants. No one breaks tender teenage hearts like scammy dudes on the net.
posted by ninjakins at 3:16 PM on July 18, 2012 [26 favorites]


Yep - research the hell out of him and invite him in. You need him on your turf and even if she doesn't have a 'wtf was I thinking' moment, you are at least watching him in person and forcing him to interact with you, which changes the dynamic of their relationship considerably. And if he won't meet with you, I imagine it will be a lightbulb moment for her or, at least, you will be able to start a conversation going about why his actions look suss - your teaching moment, if you will.

But the minute you do anything authoritarian with your daughter, you're screwed.
posted by heyjude at 3:21 PM on July 18, 2012 [2 favorites]


I think I'd find out everything I could about this guy and then pay him a visit. And impress upon him my utter and complete seriousness about how inappropriate I find his relationship with my kid to be. Hire a PI, check public records, and so on.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:42 PM on July 18, 2012


I'm confused about why you don't know his age. Does your daughter not know? Will she not tell? Why do you think he's in his 30s? It really does make a difference, because an early 20something from the internet could maybe be a naive/immature nerd with no ill intentions, while a 30something could... not.

I was also the teenager in this situation a decade-ish ago. My internet boyfriend was six years older than I was, I met him at 15 online and in person at 17, and our relationship was really quite sweet and completely nonsexual. So while the chances that this man is a creep are high, give your daughter a liiiiitttle bit of benefit of the doubt--he might not be a creep. At minimum, pretend, because as many others have said, if your reaction is too harsh she will not listen to you at all.

I agree with the suggestions to meet him! It sounds like a really good way to handle this. If he won't agree to come and meet you, you are all set up for a conversation with your daughter about why this whole situation is a bad idea and why his intentions are not good.
posted by snorkmaiden at 3:46 PM on July 18, 2012


Response by poster: Thanks for the input everyone. We've discussed the whole situation with my daughter over the last few days and she doesn't really see a problem with the situation except for our reaction to it of course. And railing against the guy does seem to produce the oppose effect to that which is desired so we're going to discontinue that. The best route based on everyone's input would seem to be working behind the scenes to find more info with a PI.

To that end, does anyone have any recommendations for a PI in Canada? I presume for this kind of work the PI wouldn't need to be in the same geographical area if they're looking into a cellphone number and a general background check on the discovered owner of same?
posted by barc0001 at 3:52 PM on July 18, 2012


I'm horrified by all the people advocating that you go to the police or start in on scare tactics. Please don't.

Like several others, about fifteen years ago, I could've been your daughter. I had a ton of online friendships, often with people ten to twenty years older than I was. I romanticized some of the relationships, but not all of them, and--at thirty-one--I'm still friends with a handful of people from that era. Moreover, I've found myself in the position of being the much-older person who's befriended someone who turned out to be a very literate, well-spoken, interesting teenager.

So here, from both sides.

From the side of the adult: He may not have known how old she was when they met. Though she says she's in love with him, this may or may not be something that he's aware of, and it could be that he'd be horrified to find out that she feels this way about him. There's no indication that he's the one who initiated the relationship--if they met in a chat room or a forum or whatever, it's possible that their conversations arose organically, no creepiness involved. It's possible for two people to have a big age gap and be interested in the same things and develop a friendship due to that.

From your daughter's side: In her mind, she's basically an adult, and you're treating her like a baby. Obviously she's going to make good decisions and not go out with creepy boys! She's only going to go out with the ones she likes. She doesn't want you judging her or telling her what to do, because she feels like she's making adult decisions and they should be respected as such. I'm sure she wouldn't word it like that, but I'm also sure that that's the gist of it.

By your own admission, even if they were having a sexual relationship, it wouldn't be illegal where you live. Treat this the way your daughter wants you to--like she's capable of making a mature decision about this. I say that not because I think she's making a good decision, necessarily, but because it's arguably an important life lesson to learn how to meet people off the internet and when to trust your creepdar and bail. More importantly, though, she needs to know that she can make decisions--even shitty ones--and you'll still have her back.

If you react punitively, you're not going to prevent her from doing this again, you're just going to encourage her to be that much more secretive about it, and you're going to teach her that if something goes wrong, she can't come to you.

Tell her that you're uncomfortable with it, but it's her right to decide who she wants to be friends with, and that you support her in that. Say this without judgment, if you can. Tell her that if she needs anything--if she needs a ride home at three a.m., if she needs birth control, if she needs you to show up with a shotgun--she just needs to tell you, and then let her go out and make her mistakes.
posted by MeghanC at 3:55 PM on July 18, 2012 [14 favorites]


Ack, sorry, you posted while I was in preview. Apologies.
posted by MeghanC at 3:58 PM on July 18, 2012


Is it possible that your daughter lied to him about her age when she was 14, and perhaps even kept up the lie all this time? He still would be creepy and inappropriate, but an older guy who starts chatting with someone he thinks is an 18 year old is going to be somewhat less awful than one who deliberately chats up a 14 year old.
posted by Surprised By Bees at 4:02 PM on July 18, 2012


Response by poster: Oh and the reason the age is unknown is that my daughter mentioned she doesn't know. She said he was in his 30s but when they met "he looked younger". She doesn't know what he does for a living other than it's a "seasonal" job which is why he has all this time to chat at odd hours, etc. If I had to make a snap judgment guess about someone based on the information I've heard about this guy so far I'd almost be willing to bet money that he's only got a part time job and probably lives at home with his parent(s).

MeghanC, I hear what you're saying but this guy's actions definitely speak differently than the possibilities you suggest.

"Though she says she's in love with him, this may or may not be something that he's aware of, and it could be that he'd be horrified to find out that she feels this way about him. "

He's definitely known her age pretty much since they started chatting. As for the love angle, according to the emails my ex saw, he is well aware and feels the same. In fact, he rented a hotel room less than a 5 minute walk from where they were staying on this trip, despite the fact that his town is only an hour drive away. Nice place too, you don't drop that kind of money on a room when your own bed is 60 minutes away unless you have plans for something that requires privacy IMO.
posted by barc0001 at 4:02 PM on July 18, 2012


From a user who prefers to remain anonymous:
I was your daugther. I mean, it was the 1990s so the age of consent in Ontario was still only 14 (he checked!) and I was 13 or 14 when we started talking on a BBS, and 15 when I (consentually) lost my virginity to him (29ish), but there are a lot of parallels here I think.

My parents never knew about the relationship (and we were local to each other so no secret trips needed to be arranged, especially in the summer). I shudder to think of the sh*tstorm that would have arisen if they had.

I think the advice about encouraging her to invite the guy to meet her family is sound. Also, I think it might be helpful to back up a little and see if any of the conversations that they were having were actually sexual in nature (especially when she was underage). With my guy, it definitely started from a mutual interest in computers and networks and ham radio, and to be honest, I couldn't even tell you who initiated the romantic side of things or when.

Another important point is to avoid making her feel like a victim. I still (20 odd years later) don't feel like a victim from my relationship. This is even though I realized how much of a creep he was when after I broke up with him (at age 17 or so, I honestly grew out of him) he started chatting with my 13! year! old! sister on another board. It was at that point that I started to threaten him (with both humiliating revelations, and violence), and he backed off from both our lives. The point of that rambling is that I felt empowered through the whole relationship, and had no desire for my parents to "save me" from him, and would have hated them if they had (though I probably would have castrated him if he had touched my sister).

Finally, I can sense your anger at this guy, and I totally understand it (it brings back the same emotions I felt when I found the chats to my sister), but ask yourself if a PI will really be worth it to you. It seems to me that the possible outcomes are: 1.) you find out that his interactions with your 15 year old daughter were illegal, you have him sent to jail. If your daugther hasn't gotten over him herself by then she will probably resent you forever, even when she grows up and understands tht this guy was evil. 2.) Nothing sexy happened until after she was 16. Then all you've done is spy on your daughter, which she might resent you forever for also.
posted by restless_nomad at 4:03 PM on July 18, 2012 [8 favorites]


"She claims she didn't mention anything about his age because she doesn't know his exact age..."

It would probably be really helpful for you to find a way of making her realize by herself how downright strange this bit is. You can't point it out directly, because then she'll just think that it's her lame parents being lame and "making judgements," but you might be able to lead her to the conclusion on her own. I mean, they've been talking for "a few years" and she doesn't know how old he is? Surely she is aware that this is unusual.

(NB: I am not a parent but I was a 17-year-old girl not too long ago.)
posted by easy, lucky, free at 4:04 PM on July 18, 2012


At 18, I met a guy on the internet who I knew to be quite a bit older--out of college, working, though he still lived at home.

Ten years later, I'm married to the guy.

I'm not saying this is necessarily twu wuv, but she is an adult and I think the reaction which is going to have the best outcome here is one which makes her feel accepted, not shamed. I lied to my mom quite a bit about hanging out with Mr. Internet Dude (who, it turned out, was "only" 24) because I knew she'd find the whole thing creepy and freak out.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:08 PM on July 18, 2012 [2 favorites]


I would try something like this:
"You know what hon, I've been thinking it over, and I realize I may have been unfair to Tom. You're a practically an adult, and I like to think that your mother and I have raised you to be a smart, capabable young woman. I'm sorry we didn't give Tom the benefit of the doubt - after all, you'd hardly be the first couple with a big age difference. Can I make it up to you, and have you invite Tom over for dinner? I love you, and if he's an important part of your life, I want to get to know him and make him feel welcome in our home."
Yeah, I think this dude is super creepy, or at best, really bad at relating to grownups, because why else date a teenager? But a) there may be some tiny chance that this is legit, in which case he should be anxious to prove to your daughter's family that he's not some skeeve, and b) if he is a skeeve, hopefully his reaction to your kind and welcoming invitation would set off some alarm bells for your daughter.

Further, this sets up (hopefully) an environment in which your daughter feels ok with coming to you to talk about any problems in the relationship, keeping you in the loop.

And yes, get her access to / info about birth control if she doesn't already have it. I know it's so awful to think about, but it IS her body and she can decide what to do with it. Showing your respect for her free will in this way will hopefully also help convince her that you're not just being an over-reacting parent who's treating her like a child. (I feel like I'm phrasing this poorly, but I mean that it's an olive branch, and might help convince her that your concern about this guy has an intellectual basis, and isn't just a reactive gut-instinct, un-thought-out kind of thing.)

Good luck.
posted by miss_kitty_fantastico at 4:11 PM on July 18, 2012 [6 favorites]


I'd be tempted to invite his parents over too.

And at dinner, I'd ask him all the things she should've been asking him, like,"when do you plan to introduce our daughter to your friends and family? Where do you live? We like to have the phone number of our daughter's friends do we can reach her when we need to --in case she lets her battery run down. How about you call my phone now, that way it'll be in there. How do you spell your last name?"

At some point I'd say something to him like "you can imagine how tough this is for me. Is there anything you can tell me about yourself that will make me feel better? Is there anything I should know about you?"

Those are just opportunities to look him in the eye and judge his response.
posted by vitabellosi at 4:20 PM on July 18, 2012 [9 favorites]


I would have worded a response almost exactly like the one miss_kitty just wrote. I was a 17 year old girl not terribly long ago and ....

Oh my god, as I'm typing I had a revelation about this. I actually did this. Granted, I was 19 and in college, but it was a big age gap between me and a guy I met online and spent hours and hours talking to. I was home for summer and my mom invited him to come visit. He "went on a business trip" and I never heard from him again.

I am actually amazed I didn't see the parallel before now. I've been following this thread all day.
posted by chatongriffes at 4:22 PM on July 18, 2012 [9 favorites]


Nah. First, I think I'd just ask her how she wants me to respond and then ask her follow up questions. The truth is, she wants to keep you far away from her activities and friendships, let alone romantic life. That's just not an option until she's on her own.

So, yes, I'd invite him and his parents over for dinner.
posted by vitabellosi at 4:26 PM on July 18, 2012


In fact, he rented a hotel room less than a 5 minute walk from where they were staying on this trip, despite the fact that his town is only an hour drive away. Nice place too, you don't drop that kind of money on a room when your own bed is 60 minutes away unless you have plans for something that requires privacy IMO.

Alarm bells are going off in my head like DING!DING!DING! upon reading that.

All it takes for this uneasiness to turn into a feeling of horror is simply Googling the phrase "I thought he was my boyfriend". Tip-top results point to stories about girls meeting older guys online, and eventually being trafficked and pimped out on sites like Backpage.
I'd be especially uneasy about the situation, but it looks like you're already on the right track - invite him over and get to know him. I'd be leery of anyone that knew my daughter for that long and wanted to stay invisible.
posted by erasorhed at 4:36 PM on July 18, 2012 [3 favorites]


I...uh...almost did this. Looking back, I can't -really- know if he was the age he claimed to be.

He caught me in his net because I wasn't taught what to do when someone claims they're going to kill themselves unless "they know they can find someone out there to love them." What can I say? I was stupid and young. And very damn naive.
And he seemed to exciting! Because he'd been to France! and other European countries! and he seemed really smart! Etc.

*Embarrassed*

So, if it comes down to it, look at her chat history if you can. He might've manipulated her by getting sympathy for some "plight" from which he claims he's suffering (a history of mental illness, tortured writer, suicidal, lack of understanding from his parents - all of these were used on me) and therefore trapped her in some web she only thinks she chose for herself.
Like that whole Game tactic of "insult her just enough to keep her wanting you" thing, you know?

Alternatively, he could be the first guy that introduced any sort of sexual excitement into her life. Told her about things/ideas she didn't know about yet. Insulted her a little or laughed at her when she admitted she didn't know. Then used some tenderness to keep her feeling wanted.

Not saying this is what he did, but just some....behavior to watch out for, especially when you possibly meet this guy.
Keep us updated, okay? I'm concerned for your daughter very much.
posted by DisreputableDog at 5:59 PM on July 18, 2012 [1 favorite]


Nthing that I, too, was your daughter as a teenager. Nthing that railing against this too hard could have catastrophic consequences, BUT that you can and SHOULD stay on top of the situation.

I actually moved across the country to live with the guy I met online. It was a godawful but deeply formative experience... self-link to the entire saga here, if you want a lil' perspective from someone who once went there.
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:16 PM on July 18, 2012 [2 favorites]


I see from your update that you plan to get a P.I. Good for you, that is a very very very good idea.

However, you didn't mention whether you plan to take many of the other poster's advice and invite him over and/or be supportive of your daughter.

I may be way out of line here, but please resist the urge to get piles of information on this man and drop it all on your daughter as "evidence" that he is a "bad man". That. Will. Not. Work. If she has been spending years talking to him, went to meet him, and STILL wants to talk to him more, then it is quite likely that she had strong feelings for him. No amount of evidence that you pile on will dissuade her. Worst case, you find out some bad stuff and you tell her, she secretly tells him, he explains it away, and she believes him because they are in Delicious Forbidden Love.

Make sure that you support your daughter in her choices. Do not become the enemy. That advice from this thread is even more important than the P.I part.

Even though it may be much more satisfying to hunt down dirty details and hope that you find something to crucify him with, this will not be the last sleazy guy that will come along and you will have taught her the necessity of hiding her whole life from you from now on.


Hire the P.I as the posters have suggested, but please consider the other advice as well (aka: dinner invite).
posted by Shouraku at 6:45 PM on July 18, 2012 [7 favorites]


I agree with some of the others that its time to be there to support and not to judge. Hiring a PI... what do you want to achieve? Get some dirty details and show them to her?

When I was that age (I'm male btw) I did questionable things and had questionable friends and all that. My parents knew, but never said anything, and I think their willingness to let me take responsibility but also be there to support me made me think about the impact of my decisions on them and the whole family. Had they tried to forbid me, or restrict me from seeing said friends... I'd have just done it in secret.

Did I make mistakes? Of course I did... but I look back and know that my parents trusted me, and their parenting abilities, that I would take repsonsibility for that, that they would support me anyway despite my mistakes.

I know this seems like flippant advice, but if you can spare an hour or two, I'd watch Trust as it (in my opinion) thoughtfully covers a lot of angles of this and the ramifications of doing things wrong.
posted by Admira at 7:17 PM on July 18, 2012


Chiming in with another "I was your daughter". I wanted to end the relationship 4 months in, but couldn't. Because Mom was insisting I end it. I told her this an adult and she turned a few shades of purple, but I mean COME ON. So obvious!

My Mom eventually insisted on meeting him and we went out for dinner and she realized, when he showed up trembling like a leaf, that he was completely harmless. If she had told him to show up juggling 5 pears while riding a unicycle he would have done it. We had a sexless kind relationship where he always encouraged me to do well in school and we'd stay up till 4am laughing on the phone. I think he had some immaturity and probably other issues for wanting to date someone so younger, but evil pimp out to snag young naive girls he was not.

Not to say this guy isn't, and he doesn't sound innocent (like Zug, as a teen I talked to a lot of older men that I only realized were severely creepy later on), but you haven't met him. If your daughter kept him secret for all these years then there's a good chance she actually does know his age and doesn't want to tell you.

Invite him out to dinner already.
posted by Dynex at 7:35 PM on July 18, 2012 [3 favorites]


I was your daughter, too. Well, sort of. When I was literally 14, I met a whole BBS full of cool funny adults who treated me like a grownup and made me feel like I mattered. And it turned out perfectly OK.

Here's the difference: before they would let me come to any of the meetups, two different people from the group insisted on calling my parents and talking to them. They were all sensible real people with jobs and lives and spouses; a lot of them worked at our local PBS station. My mother came along to the meetup, and everyone welcomed her and told her how great I was and how great she was for looking out for me, and generally put her mind at ease. She didn't let me go anywhere with them unchaperoned until after I was 18 anyway. ;-) And certainly nobody was renting hotel rooms or anything like that!

So yes. Ask to meet him; if he actually shows up, make sure he knows that you are a smart caring involved parent who is dialed into your daughter's life. If he's a creep, and he sounds like a creep quite frankly, he'll bolt -- plus you'll know what he looks like.
posted by KathrynT at 7:42 PM on July 18, 2012 [1 favorite]


Me too. And the creepy dude actually came over for dinner. And seeing him with my family, I had the sudden realization that he was completely utterly creepy, particularly when conversing with my parents. And I never spoke to him again.

Same thing happened to me - pre-internet, but same thing, clandestine at first. My parents invited him in, didn't like the cut of his jib, but didn't rail - until they found out something else pretty negative about him, at which point there was a big scene. I continued to try to see him after that, but within a couple of months I realized this was no way to live, the guy was a heel, it was ridiculous to imagine an entire life of sneaking around, and I wanted to move on.

So I agree that by just inviting him over and letting her see him in the context of your family, you will start to reframe her point of view completely. A lot of the infatuation is fueled by secrecy and the sense of being star-crossed and special. Take that away. Make it mundane and normal. Get him to talk about his career, if there is one, and family, and life plans while you're all at the table. If she's got a good head on her shoulders, chances are she's going to hear a few things that start the internal cringes going.

Someone speculated he might still live with his parents, and that sounds likely, and that's probably why the hotel room - that and saving time. But really, ick. Not cool. What kind of guy would encourage her to sneak around?
posted by Miko at 8:16 PM on July 18, 2012 [2 favorites]


You know, in talking to your daughter, it might help if you admitted to her some of your problems as a youngster; regrettable relationships, especially. Even just toxic friendships. Or things you just didn't understand were skeevy until later.

Not in an attempt to call her ignorant, but to say, everyone has to learn how to judge whether someone is good to be around and go out with or not. No one is born knowing that, and even when we think we do, we're often wrong. Sometimes we do think people are skeevy when they're not, sometimes vice versa.

And then lead into why you want to meet him yourself--either at your house or elsewhere. You don't want to judge him on hearsay, you want to hear what he has to say for himself, find out who he is, not so you can yell at him, just so you can make an honest appraisal. Tell her that you'd love to find out he's awesome, because then you wouldn't be lying awake at night worrying about something awful happening to her. She wouldn't have to sneak around or hide him, and her life would get better too.

Be honest, instead of controlling. Tell her, you know that she's nearly an adult and she's at the age where she does have to make her own decisions. Lots of parents don't want to say this because they have visions of their kids running off to go crazy, but it really tends to have the opposite effect. Because suddenly it's not a romantic pop song about Quit Killing Our Love!! but real life. Holy shit, my dad isn't going to yell at me or lock me in my room, he's letting me make serious decisions. And if I fuck it up I can't blame it on him.
posted by emjaybee at 8:44 PM on July 18, 2012 [5 favorites]


You might also mention that internet creeps (not that he necessarily is one, just saying) typically have several flings going on at once on several different sites.

Sometimes it's not even "love" that's attractive, it's the novel idea of being special to someone who isn't your family. But then it turns out you're not special. You're one of many being tricked into feeling that way by the other person on purpose.
posted by ctmf at 9:05 PM on July 18, 2012


Admira: "Hiring a PI... what do you want to achieve? Get some dirty details and show them to her?"

I would hire the PI to look for a criminal record, or anything else that indicates this guy is a threat to the daughter's safety (as opposed to just a creep looking for sex) and the authorities need to be involved.
posted by I am the Walrus at 6:18 AM on July 19, 2012 [2 favorites]


As you can see a lot of us have been through versions of this. I think that's a shame and reflects poorly on society and gender relations and culture at large, but it might be at least somewhat reassuring to you that many girls go through this and emerge healthily, if not unscathed. On the one hand, a teenager's judgment is really much worse than she believes it is. On the other hand, she is still probably more capable and resilient than even she gives herself credit for. Anyway, that's for you to maybe feel a bit better.

As far as what to do with her, I agree very much with a lot of the advice in this thread. Open communication with her even if it means biting your tongue and aggressively modulating your facial expressions to the point where you need to take a shower after, and reaching out to him to make him be a full person to her and to the family. It's a challenge to protect her while empowering her, but I think it's really important to do your best to do both. The predators don't magically disappear once she turns 18 or she's out of the house, and the skills and self-confidence you support her in now will likely serve her better long term than successfully completely shielding her from this one person.
posted by Salamandrous at 9:21 AM on July 19, 2012 [2 favorites]


Invite the guy nothing. Find out where he lives, show up at his house, have a nice discussion with him reminding him of age difference/legality of it all, bring a friend who maybe is in law enforcement.

Sometimes a face to face with dear ol dad will scare the bejesus out of him.
posted by stormpooper at 10:17 AM on July 19, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh look, it's yet another "I was your daughter" post. I wasn't, not quite - we never met, nothing "happened," we broke contact after I turned 18, at first at my prompting and then, when I went back on my prompting, naturally - but the circumstances are probably the same.

Here are some things that have probably happened that I think you'd want to know about.

- He has undoubtedly - 99% chance - told her something to the effect that she's different from other girls, more mature, more worthy of being a friend, whatever. This can either be sincere or not, but it doesn't matter. It makes things into an Us versus The World situation, a situation in which case, to be blunt, you are The World. This is going to make it very difficult for anything you say to matter.

- They have almost certainly have 1 < n < lots of conversations about fights in the family, and he has almost certainly told her that she was in the right and you were in the wrong. The conversation about "you know, if you ever need to move out" has likely come up at some point and possibly more than once.

- She might have dirt on him. If not dirt, then personal information. How much (and how truthful) depends entirely on the two people involved. But this is one way people build camaraderie. God, the emails I have and have reread.

- One of the two parties is probably making grand travel plans. It could be him (the hotel room suggests it might.) Or it could be her. The other one of the two parties is probably mildly freaked out by the scope of the grand plans, if only subconsciously.

- She probably thinks she is in love.

As for how to proceed, I'm not the best person to talk there, considering that (again) in my case things ended rather organically, and it doesn't look like that will be the case here without intervention. What you want to do, I'd say, is to facilitate that happening. Think college applications. Think travel plans. Think new social scenarios, new activities, anything that can introduce her to new friend groups and (this is important) distractions. But you have to be subtle about it; she's almost certainly expecting it, even actively looking out for it.

Good luck.
posted by dekathelon at 12:50 PM on July 19, 2012 [1 favorite]


I am a police officer in a medium sized Canadian city, so I can tell you that yes, we would be interested in that.

There are a lot of really good answers here to what you should do from a social perspective, not railing against the guy, looking into his background, trying to meet him in person. These are good ideas.

Let me answer this part of your question: "I don't believe the police would have any interest in this right now, am I incorrect on that?"

Reason 1 the Police are interested:
There is no such things as a statue of limitations for indictable offenses in Canada... if this guy lured your daughter over the internet with the intention of committing a criminal offense (the two most common being to her make nude photos of herself having sex with her while she's too young to legally consent) then he can still be charged.

Reason 2 the Police are interested:
He may do this again. Even assuming that there's no evidence going back 3 years to say what happened (legally or not) when he first stating talking to your daughter, the case does not pass the sniff test. There appears to be something wrong, there should be a file opened. Now say in 2 years your daughter has moved on and this guy starts to talk to someone else... Having a previous police file on record can mean that if he's caught again he can't possible explain it all away as a miscommunication... Sometimes these guys go out of their way not to ask about age... try proving that as a one off, you probably can't. Now if the police from the city province over have a file on the same guy doing the same thing... we can start to draw patterns and inferences.

99% of the time when I pull out this sock to answer a question here I make the same points.

1) Yes, the police can help you and possible let you know if this guy has a history or has done something like this before. Call us, 99% of us don't bite

2) Equally importantly from my perspective (thinking on behalf of society) you have an obligation to report this suspicious behavior to help someone in the future in the same situation. You have a suspicion that this guy could be a sexual predator, no evidence, no hard facts... I'm not telling you to take out an ad in the paper and label him for life, I'm telling you to report it so that it can be looked into.

Even if you get the laziest cop in the whole world, there will be a file, the suspect's name will be on it and the next time someone calls to report him the bells will start ringing.

Please pick up the phone and call your local police station. If you really feel you can't do that for some reason, call/email Crime Stoppers, give as much information about the suspect as possible, the police won't be able to do anything for your family in that case but it will still deal with the social obligation to help save the next victim.
posted by BlueSock at 2:11 PM on July 19, 2012 [18 favorites]


He may do this again. Even assuming that there's no evidence going back 3 years to say what happened (legally or not) when he first stating talking to your daughter, the case does not pass the sniff test. There appears to be something wrong, there should be a file opened. Now say in 2 years your daughter has moved on and this guy starts to talk to someone else.

That is an excellent point.
posted by Miko at 8:21 PM on July 19, 2012 [2 favorites]


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