Entry level work for an American outside the US?

July 4, 2012 12:57 PM

Entry level work for an American outside the US?

I want to go away for a year or two and see some more of the world, I'm only about $20,000 in debt but can postpone payments on it for the next two years. If I can start paying that off now, great, currently trying to find work in construction to begin payment. If I can only get enough for food and transportation, that's fine.

I want to travel and see the world a bit. I'm 24 and able bodied with a fresh degree in English with a concentration in Rhetoric and Global studies.

One professor told me she went out with someone who lived out of a box in Morocco for two years and gave tours to American tours, had the time of his life.

If anyone has ideas for work that can be done while traveling, that's good. If people can only think of jobs that can be done in one place, like the tour job, that's fine too, I can save up a bit of money here and they and travel around.

One of mine includes working as a waiter on a cruise-liner or working as on a boat in Italy.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance! PS - Possible job locations include Italy, South Africa, Ireland, South Korea, the Mediterranean region.

posted by Nighthawk3729 to travel & transportation (27 answers total)

My advice - save some money for the trip (at least the beginning of it) before you go anywhere. Your earning potential in the US is going to be so much greater than it will be anywhere else. Not only is the economy better here (this is all relative) than the places you mention, but you have connections, the ability to get a job with no legal issues, know the language, etc. And then if you have a financial cushion, you'll be able to choose less-lucrative but more fun options once you're abroad.
posted by lunasol at 1:12 PM on July 4, 2012

For Korea, teaching English is relatively lucrative, and out of the places that you are looking at so far, possibly the place where you are most likely to find something. Not sure if you have heard, but Italy, Ireland, and the Mediterranean area are not exactly places of prosperity and stability these days. Anecdotally, I know quite a few expat Europeans who have come to the U.S. because the job market is so much better here (!) compared to their home countries.

"Only" 20,000 in debt?! Work on that first. The world will always be there with all of its riches. Also, you'd be surprised at how difficult it can be to set up a system to pay off your debts while you're abroad. I lived in China and paid off debt while I was abroad, and navigating the byzantine system/figuring out how much to transfer to make payments that would also minimize the Western Union fees was surprisingly difficult.

In other words, don't expect the banking systems to be like the U.S.
posted by so much modern time at 1:15 PM on July 4, 2012

Here is one recommendation for jobs that would fit your current background: the Peace Corps. I know that they had (assuming they still do) jobs in construction (schools) and also teaching (often English as a second language). You mention an interest in the South Africa region and I have met many volunteers who were in Lesotho. PC is in other African countries, too, but I'm assuming that you are not interested in that or you would mention it.

Some additional things about Peace Corps that may be relevant to you: 1) you can defer your loans when you are in it; 2) you get paid a local salary, housing, insurance (trust me it is all very basic but it is something); and 3) you will receiving around $200/month for each month that you complete plus the price of a plane ticket, which is often much more than you need. You can use this money to travel for several months after you finish, especially since you will be used to not needing much in terms of accommodations.

I knew a few volunteers who also taught English for a year or two in Asia; they applied for these jobs on site while traveling through these countries (I don't know if it would still be this easy to get these jobs on site, though).

Do feel free to memail me if you have follow-up questions about Peace Corps,because this may or many not interest you.
posted by Wolfster at 1:20 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

Your three previous questions on this have some fantastic answers. It would help people give better answers here if you could clarify what did or did not work for you when pursuing those previous answers.

Things like teaching English as part of an organized program or joining the Peace Corps are things you arrange ahead of time. Things like washing dishes under the table (meaning without legal working papers) in a bar in Ireland or your example of someone giving tours in Morocco are things you find by showing up somewhere and talking to people. There are middle-ground things like WWOOFing where you are sort of organizing something ahead and sort of figuring it out as you go, too.

But again, this is retreading previous answers, and unless you give some clarification I think you are just going to get a lot of repeats.
posted by Forktine at 1:22 PM on July 4, 2012 [4 favorites]

I think it would be helpful to know your work experience history when answering this question. What skills do you currently have?
posted by OsoMeaty at 1:22 PM on July 4, 2012

Hello again! It's good to see that your requirements are evolving as you have got answers to previous questions. Have you discounted teaching English, since that was a big part of your last question and is in many ways the obvious way for a native English speaker to work outside their own country?

The best answer to your question depends on your tolerance for risk, living very cheaply and uncertainty. 'Living out of a box' in Morocco certainly could be an amazing experience, but for many people it would be quite the opposite. Working and travelling at the same time is not at all easy. For a lot of unskilled jobs, you would be competing for work against refugees and economic migrants who are prepared to do back-breaking labour for hours for a pittance and sleep twenty to a room. There are always people with the skills and charm to find decent jobs almost anywhere they go, but if you were one of them, you'd probably know it.

Italy, Ireland and the Mediterranean are, of course, EU countries, so it will not be easy to get legal work there. I don't know a great deal about working on cruise liners, but from what I've read it means a lot of very hard work with no ability to walk away from unpleasant colleagues or bosses and 'travelling' only in the most technical definition of the word, since you aren't given days off when the boat is at port.

Forktine's suggestion of WWOOFing is an interesting one; it would be interesting to know how that fits into your requirements.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 1:27 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

@So much - Let's put it this way, My sister has been out of school for 10 years and still has over $100,000 in debt, so yea, I'm in better shape.

The deal here is, I'm leaving in 4-10 months regardless. If I can't make money in the mean time, that is not a big deal. I need this time to really work exploring some passions and the world, this is going to happen.

@lunasol - I've been out of school for a few weeks and starting work Friday.
posted by Nighthawk3729 at 1:30 PM on July 4, 2012

Look into an Australian working holiday visa. My understanding is that Americans are eligible up to age 30.

I really wish I'd known about this before I was 29-ish and it was too late.

Even if living in Australia is too mundane for you, you could legally work there, and it would make a good home base for shorter trips to parts of the world that are usually prohibitively expensive from the US, such as southeast Asia and Pacific islands.
posted by Sara C. at 1:35 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

@ wolfster - The Peace core takes at least two years worth of an rigorous application process and you need to have some REALLY nice credentials, so it's pretty low on my priority list.

@forktime - Looking for more work with a bit less prep, like I go to that country and then find work at a worse pay, the idea being to widen the field of jobs, I just want to live somewhere else and experience a different culture. Teaching English is still high on my list, but I'm also trying to find work in other fields, I'm not picky.
posted by Nighthawk3729 at 1:35 PM on July 4, 2012

As someone a decade older than you with a ton more debt, if I could go back in time and be where you are, I'd pay off that debt as fast as you can (by living at home especially), and THEN go on your adventure. That debt is going to be a chain around your neck later in life when you can't afford it - cuz you have kids, cuz you need medical insurance, and then you have hundreds of dollars in loan or credit card payments on top of it. You'll be paralyzed.

Work your ass off waiting tables or construction and you'll pay off that debt in a year.
posted by k8t at 1:42 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]

I know people who went on an adventure right after college and came back with no connections and no money. It isn't a good place to be, especially if you also have debt payments to handle.

Work to pay the debt off as quickly as possible, or at least to pay it down. If you get a decent job here in the US you could take care of most of that debt in two years, develop a decent listing on your resume, and have some professional connections you can use when you get back from your adventure.

If the 20k is in federal student loans, I'd be surprised if the minimum payment is more than $300 per month. Try to put in at least $600 per month and you'll make a big dent. Find a cheap place to live and don't spend money on a new car or anything like that (you'll just have to get rid of it when you leave the country anyway).
posted by twblalock at 1:48 PM on July 4, 2012

@Busy old fool - hello again :). Teaching English is certainly still on the list, but once I get there, I can always depart if things don't work out, giving tours in the country has never been suggested within this list, and I'm hoping to find more jobs that seem less "obvious". I am quite wary of that word as usually the perception that it is obvious is very one sided, as viable as an option as it is.


@sara C - A nice suggestion, thank you!

@osomeaty - Hah (fiddles with collar) right, skills... English major... right um...
This answer always seems to escape me. Able to clearly convey ideas? Empathy? Experience at suicide and domestic abuse hotlines? Public speaking?

WOOFING is definitely on my list of things to do.

Government positions seems to be the most consist work I cna find, I feel a bit more comfortable talking with government official as opposed to a private contractor, which I have done, until I get over to said country in question. In face, yesterday I was in the office of the consulate for el Salvador's ambassador trying to find more programs through that government. That bit of security through a government is important to me, as nice as forums such as Dave's ESL cafe may be.
posted by Nighthawk3729 at 1:49 PM on July 4, 2012

I think if you're looking into something where you would be working and getting paid the equivalent of what you could make in the US with a comparable level of qualifications/experience, going abroad post-college can be a great idea. So the Australian thing and certain ESL setups could work.

On the other hand, if you're looking to volunteer abroad long term, work under the table in countries where you can't do so legally, or do a gap-year where you work or volunteer in order to get by but by and large do not really bring in money? Those are all bad ideas for a lot of the reasons mentioned. You'll come back broke and with little to show for your time, your debt will not only still be in place but will likely be a burden later on, etc.

If you want to do the latter sort of thing, stay home, get a job, pay down your debt as quickly as possible, and hopefully even save up some money. THEN go on a wild adventure abroad. I did my first big backpacking trip to Asia when I was 26. I don't feel like I missed out on anything by not going sooner, and in fact in a lot of ways I was better prepared than a lot of the 18 and 22 year olds I met on the road.
posted by Sara C. at 1:57 PM on July 4, 2012

@twablalock - Trying to explain that to my family has been quite difficult, who feel I need to spend my time getting a well paying job 'worthy' of my college degree. I all cool with humble pie, but it does re-beg the question, "why the hell did I go to school?" One benefit is am qualified to teach English now in many programs.

It is actually painful to think of working at a low paying after all the work I put into school as I reflect on it again now, and I do have this itch to travel, it seems most healthy to scratch this itch.

Is is funny to read, whenever I tell people I want to travel, they tell me I should save and go later, being quite derisive about this stereotype to travel. On the flip side however, whenever I get demoralized, instead when I mention I was thinking about traveling but might as well just settle down and get a job to pay off debt, people tell me to not fall into that trap, that I will never leave, that there will always be debt, life happens and more debt accrues, some of them even lamenting the fact that they did not do it themselves, trapped in their day to day lives. This however, mostly happens whenever I begin to hesitate.

It is this constant back and forth that has me following my heart, because god damn it, forget it, I want to travel and I will. If it does not work out, I come home and work, enough of this constant back and forth. I've held waiting till after college, well, that time has come.

Bit of a rant here, but it's part of the long debate I've had with this.
posted by Nighthawk3729 at 1:58 PM on July 4, 2012

If your only requirements are: entry level and not in America, there are contractor jobs in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is also cruise ship work.

It is probably though, that if it pays as well as or better than entry level in the U.S. that you'll be assuming some risk.

Cruise ship work, fish boats, etc... There is an old ask me post on this, but the money is not good.

Are you on variously international job listservs?
posted by k8t at 2:00 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

@Sara - curious, how do you feel that you were better prepared then the 18-22 year olds on the road?

It still does not seem a bad idea, I don't need a lot to travel from what I've seen of the array of traveling memoirs and blogs out there.
posted by Nighthawk3729 at 2:02 PM on July 4, 2012

As a veteran of government sponsored programs, don't trust that they will be any less problematic than private firms hiring.
posted by k8t at 2:02 PM on July 4, 2012 [3 favorites]

You're about 22 years old and only just barely have a college degree. In English.

You're not qualified for anything above menial low-paid work. Even if you were to get a leg up in your ideal career (publishing? advertising? education? what do English majors want to do with their lives these days?), your position would be menial and poorly paid.

Remember how when you finished middle school, you had to start all over again as a high school freshman? And then when you graduated high school you had to make the transition from Top Of The Heap senior to Idiot Newb freshman again? It's kind of the same thing now. It's great that, as a college senior, you felt that you were on top of the world and could accomplish anything. Now you're nobody again, and you have to prove yourself with menial and low paid labor.

Granted, it might be interesting to go work a shit job abroad rather than at home, if you can swing that. And it's true that teaching ESL in certain countries is probably a better gig than you could otherwise get as a young recent grad in the USA.

But otherwise? Just accept the fact that a menial crap job which you only have so that you can pay the bills is something you have to do. There's no magic escape hatch to an awesome prestigious job that you do every day just because you love it. Frankly, I do not understand why so many recent grads don't get this.
posted by Sara C. at 2:12 PM on July 4, 2012 [1 favorite]

Here's an entry level hotel job in South Korea.
posted by k8t at 2:12 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]

A google search for entry level job international had a second link of this document about finding entry level work abroad, written by the USG. Inside are DOZENS of organizations/programs for American citizens wanting to do entry level work abroad.
posted by k8t at 2:16 PM on July 4, 2012 [4 favorites]

@k8t - Could you recommend some listservs?

@sara - I did not say I was expecting a golden ticket for my degree, hence, a menial job in a foreign country with no qualms doing blue collar work. I would appreciate if you did not lump me together with every recent grad out there as you did not seem to read my post explaining I'm fine with not making a paycheck that can begin to go towards my debt, that it was merely a bonus.
posted by Nighthawk3729 at 2:29 PM on July 4, 2012

[Hey Nighthawk3729, moderator here - AskMe is supposed to be a bit more of a "get questions answered" and less of a discussion space for your topic, maybe ease back on the responses a little and let people give you some answers? Thanks.]
posted by jessamyn at 2:31 PM on July 4, 2012

I assume you're already on usajobs.gov and devex.

The listservs I know about are for people with skills - language or technical. But I found those through Google searches.
posted by k8t at 2:32 PM on July 4, 2012

Forgive me if I'm off base here, but I get the impression from this question—and your others on the same topic—that you're hoping to work and travel internationally without having saved any/much money beforehand. It might be worth mentioning that aside from the hardship and lack of security this approach entails, you may also find that savings are a requirement of a working holiday visa. For example, the Australian working holiday visa mentioned in this thread requires that "you have sufficient funds (generally deemed to be at least AU$5,000) to support your trip and purchase a return airfare"; it also stipulates that you cannot work for the same Australian employer for more than six months.

Evidence of sufficient spending money is also often a requirement for entry to many countries even on a tourist visa, as lack of funds is a common indication that a traveller plans to work illegally.

I imagine other countries have similar rules, so you'll need to check. (Again, apologies if I'm wrong about your intentions.)
posted by hot soup girl at 2:42 PM on July 4, 2012 [5 favorites]

Cambodia is an interesting destination if SE Asia appeals to you. You can get a 1-year "business visa" (with basically no questions asked) which allows you to work legally in the country. There are English teaching opportunities, as well as other jobs you may be able to find. Cambodia is pretty traditional as far as finding a job goes. Pretty much everyone will want you to apply in country, in person, with a printed CV. You can find a wealth of information about the Cambodian expat community at Khmer440.com.

You could also do online freelancing work while traveling. Finding reliable work that pays decently by US standards is difficult, but if your English education has prepared you to write well, it shouldn't be too hard to make around $8-$10/hour doing SEO/web articles and the like. There are plenty of countries where you can live comfortably enough on that wage -- especially if you don't mind an authentic living experience (as opposed to a luxurious touristy one).
posted by GnomeChompsky at 3:18 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]

@hot soup - I was not aware of this requirement, thanks for the info!

Answering your question, no need to apologize for clarity, that is very much my intention if I cannot find a job off the bat.

As for the seeming excess of responses, I was not aware, much of it seems to be for clarity since my original question seems to be lacking.
posted by Nighthawk3729 at 3:20 PM on July 4, 2012

A lot of job options depends on if you want the freedom to break from contract and travel more. Is the traveling around more important, or the steady job to fund living abroad? Your answers seem to flip flop between the two - if you use an example like the tours, than it implies you want budget traveling options and under-the-table work.

Examples of this I've read includes WWOOF (EDIT: I see it's been mentioned), working in a hostel in exchange for room & board, translation work, English-speaking tours, freelance copywriting, scuba diving tours, tutoring individuals in English, day laborers like offering to help people move, and repair jobs (a guy would fix up cabinets, tables, bicycles, trailers, etc. and resell them at a higher cost). And these are mixed with other methods to defray costs, such as couchsurfing.

The trick with these is that you show up and then ask for work or figure out a way to make money without working for someone else, which means you need some funds to start out with and to cushion you in periods where there is no work. Many are under the table (so for the most part illegal) which gives you more freedom to leave and travel (but also little security and slight risk of deportation). I suspect your professor's friend who spent two years in Morocco living in a box probably just showed up and then figured out a way to make ends meet (and probably had some money stashed away to help out initially). In fact, on the surface it's pretty similar to other accounts of people who just go up to tourists and, in English, offer tours for X money, or offer tours and then ask for money. It's not a job you can 'apply' for. If you live in a major city you can do this right now - it's the international version of setting up a lemonade stand, or playing your violin in a subway station for tips.

For perspective... if you can't right now in your own country figure out ways to make money under-the-table, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to figure it out once you start traveling. So if this is the direction you've been leaning, then I'd suggest practicing that entrepreneurial spirit on your home turf to gain some experience (i.e. craigslist/ebay reselling, copywriting, tours, working at a bed-and-breakfast or hostel, renting a van and helping people move, etc).
posted by subject_verb_remainder at 3:48 PM on July 4, 2012 [2 favorites]