Schoolhouse on the rocks
June 27, 2012 9:41 PM   Subscribe

My boyfriend might take a while to finish school. How can I be more OK with this?- Or should I?

My partner is earning an B.A. in a topic that does not particularly interest him (chemistry), with an eye to getting a good job and having a secure future. He is a brilliant guy, but not with the best study habits. But for the past 2 years, he has managed to attend school fall, winter, spring, and summer. He is doing some serious GPA repair, and making plans for professional school/some kind of interesting career.

He could be anything. A musician, an engineer, a scientist, a business owner. I believe he could do anything he puts his mind to. But with a background that has never really involved that intensive work (he was left to himself academically for much of middle school and high school for reasons I can't go into here), he has not really focused that much on study skills.

It feels weird typing all this personal stuff, but it drives me crazy that he doesn't work harder. When he talks about taking a break from school, or taking extra time to graduate just to "take it easy" or "have time to focus on what really matters to him" (reading philosophy/music), I go nuts. I just want him to find something he loves and work hard at it. I get that not all people are like this, and not everyone automatically can find something they love and excel and find rewards and payment from it (heck, I'm in the same boat).

It drives me crazy when he talks about taking a break from school, especially because if I get into grad school and he wasn't done with his B.A., he couldn't follow. And that would be horrible. That would defeat the whole purpose for me of even going to grad school. So I turn into someone I don't like when we have these conversations. I get annoyed. I say "why aren't you working hard, working double hard, at something you love?" I say, "you study less than anyone I've ever known." And "I can't believe you just want to sit around instead of following me."

These words are supposed to motivate and inspire, but I know they just depress and insult him and make him feel like a "loser." I feel unbelievably ashamed for even going there. When I see the look on his face.

So what should I say instead? Is there anything I can say?

How can I help my boyfriend see the light at the end of the tunnel-- or seek out the resources where he can find it?

I love him, I believe in him, and I want him to find his way. And I need to find my own way, because I'm at a loss for how to be a good partner when it comes to this.
posted by kettleoffish to Human Relations (74 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
Do you get the impression that he will start to work hard one he leaves school? If he never does, will you be happy to be with him?
posted by ocherdraco at 9:53 PM on June 27, 2012


Sounds like he does want to find his way, but not on the same time frame as you want him to. Sounds like you have some very concrete ideas about the way someone should be acting with their lives and those parameters do not match your boyfriend's. To me, this sort of disagreement and frustration will be there between you two for as long as you are a couple.

I would try to frame it differently. I would express the fact that being together when you go to grad school is very important and find out if he has the same goal (being together). If he does, then discuss with him the pushing forward on getting his degree now so you can be together and he can do his soul searching while you move to the town with the program of your choice.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:54 PM on June 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Best answer: Honestly, it sounds like you two need to have a sit-down talk about your goals. Because it sounds like they don't match up.

That would defeat the whole purpose for me of even going to grad school.

This in particular is confusing and alarming to me, because you should be going to grad school for yourself and your career, not to align the logistics of your life with your boyfriends'. What happens if you break up? Will you cancel your plans for school?

Look, he may never be a particularly ambitious or driven person. It sounds like he's not. And that's totally fine, for him. I'm very much like that, and I have had a very pleasant and relaxing life so far. But he may not be a good partner for you in the long run if being with someone ambitious and driven is important to you.

These words are supposed to motivate and inspire, but I know they just depress and insult him and make him feel like a "loser."

Well, yes. You're applying your values and goals to his life, and that doesn't work. They're not wrong for you, but it sounds like they sure are wrong for him. He may very well never be able to meet your standards in that regard, because he might not be built that way - and if he tries, he's going to be miserable.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:54 PM on June 27, 2012 [43 favorites]


From personal experience (both myself and others) here is nothing you can do. Your boyfriend has to either decide the things he wants in life require more work and then work at them, or decide that they're not that big a deal and coast. It could very well be that his personality is just the coasting type.

You can't wait for him to change or expect there to be a magic phrase that will make him change. A basic, necessary exercise of any relationship: Look at your partner and ask yourself if you're OK with the person they are now, and if nothing changed would you want to be with them long-term. If the answer is "no" then you have some thinking to do, because the change may never happen.

Just keep pursuing your own goals and dreams. If he gets left behind, that is his choice--and in a way, he's saying that living the way he's living is more important than changing in ways that are necessary for the survival of your relationship.

Also: it sounds like you're going to grad school for him? If so that is the worst idea ever. Grad school is hellishly tough, can be expensive, and should not be undertaken if you aren't committed to doing it for yourself.
posted by Anonymous at 9:55 PM on June 27, 2012


How long is it going to take him to finish at his current rate? How much longer would it take if he took a break? How old are you both? Has he bought into this multi-year plan that you have.. or is it yours?
posted by AnnaRat at 9:57 PM on June 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


If he's attended school full time for two years, including what I'm guessing are optional summer and maybe also winter terms, and he's not flunking out or anything, he can't possibly have that much left to go.

I'm also unclear on what study habits have to do with any of this? Is he failing classes due to poor study skills/time management? Could he be finishing up faster somehow if only he worked harder? Because this was not my university experience -- in my experience, if you go full time for 4 years and take the classes you're supposed to take and pass them all, you graduate. And that's how it works. You can't put in a few extra hours and, BAM, a BA in half the time!

Your boyfriend probably talks about taking a break because it makes a good fantasy for him. It sucks to slog away at something you have no passion for, and building your own little light at the end of the tunnel, even if it's taking the summer off to do fuck-all, can help with that.

In terms of what you should do? First, probably cut him down less. It's got to be brutal to not only be slogging through a degree you're not interested in, but also getting abuse from your girlfriend that it's not good enough, not fast enough, not impressive enough? And things like "I can't believe you want to sit around instead of following me", wow! I'd feel like a loser, too. Again, especially if he's doing everything by the book and passing and on target to graduate on time.

Let him have his slacking off fantasy. You don't have to explicitly encourage him to not work, but you could always say something like, "yeah, when you're finished it's going to feel so good to just take a few months and do fuck all, isn't it?" or, if you can, put yourself in the same boat, "after you graduate, let's go bum around Thailand for a month, just you and me." Build castles in the sky with him, but again, always WHEN and AFTER.

It's sort of like looking forward to the weekend. Pretty much the only thing that drags me out of bed on Wednesday and Thursday mornings is the idea that, in a few more days, it'll be Saturday and I'll have no responsibilities. If I said that and someone said, "Yeah, whatever, slacker. You have no work ethic. Stop pining for the weekend and get to work..." I would probably start to resent them pretty quickly.
posted by Sara C. at 10:00 PM on June 27, 2012 [13 favorites]


"why aren't you working hard, working double hard, at something you love?" I say, "you study less than anyone I've ever known." And "I can't believe you just want to sit around instead of following me."

Absolutely no offence, and it sounds like you know, but damn those are horrible, undermining things to say to someone. You should not be saying stuff like that in a healthy relationship.

To be honest, a lot of you've written seems to hinge around your idea of what the "right" thing to do is, and the right work ethic - I think you need to acknowledge that your feelings about work are subjective and just as valid - and no more valid - than his.

You seem to have a pretty fundamental difference in lifestyle and outlook, and frankly by calling him lazy and asserting that his lifestyle choices are not valid and heavily implying that you don't respect him, what he's doing or how he's doing it, you are definitely not going to get the outcome you're looking for.

I would recommend firstly assessing why you so strongly believe that your "protestant work ethic" mode is de facto the right one, and why you have so much emotion built into the idea of striving as hard as you can, as much as you can. That is not the kind of choice that a person should get so het up over someone else making.

If he neither wants to change nor is unhappy, then I think you need to do some thinking about what kind of compromise you're prepared to make in and for the relationship, or think about some other options cause what you've got right now ain't gonna work for either of you over the long haul.

Secondly, think about why your boyfriend doesn't subscribe to that mode, and if your comments may actually be exacerbating that. It could be a lack of confidence and fear of failure - especially common in bright people who have never really crashed out - it could be a fear of committment; it could be a legitimate choice of lifestyle after weighing up the pros and cons.

Mostly though, I don't feel like you've really questioned your assumptions around your thoughts, nor tried to exercised a lot of empathy towards your boyfriend about this - at least not from your question. Fundamentally: does he really want to change and is he happy? You're not his parent, and you have neither the right nor the ability to know what's best for him.
posted by smoke at 10:06 PM on June 27, 2012 [27 favorites]


I've got to second not understanding at all how anything your boyfriend does could defeat your purpose of going to grad school. whoa there! You spend a lot of time talking about working at something because you love it, and then you make a reference to how your boyfriend's plans could influence you to throw away your plan for grad school, and it totally doesn't add up....

I think you should cut him a break. I'm 10 years out of college and I've seen a lot of folks who weren't academically at their best at the time in undergrad, come out and work in dead end jobs for a bit or screw around for a bit, then end up doing something pretty impressive and fantastic once they had figured their lives out.

Yes, I was pre-med in college and I knew exactly what I wanted at the age of 21, and I followed that plan and went straight through and became a doctor. No breaks in between. Now, I've realized I've got the rest of my life to work at being a physician, and I wish I had taken some time in between classes and schooling like other people did, to do some things that are difficult to do later in life, like travel, or work a really unusual and fun job that is completely not career oriented (or both at once!). Doing things like that can broaden your life experience, your resume, and can help your emotional health so you don't burn out later. Maybe your boyfriend is really just a slacker but going to school year-round for years for a difficult science degree does not sound like a cake walk to me, and I think you should consider the possibility that what he wants is a perfectly normal and even maybe smart thing to want.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:16 PM on June 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: Sorry, it's not that I am going to grad school for him-- I've always wanted to go, but I don't want to go anywhere he won't be able to follow. I can't imagine being happy being separated from him for a year. That's just what I value most right now.

I think it's totally understandable that he's so burnt out from school, but I feel so depressed that he would rather chill at home on the internet all summer than work or go to school. Maybe then again it's because I work a lot and am stressed, but I'm not like some bling bling girl that wants to be supported. I just think that finishing school is such a priority, since dropping one class could delay our previously discussed timeline a whole six months.
posted by kettleoffish at 10:27 PM on June 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is he at risk of dropping a class?
posted by smoke at 10:30 PM on June 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


That would defeat the whole purpose for me of even going to grad school.

and

He is doing some serious GPA repair, and making plans for professional school/some kind of interesting career.

That's the difference I see. He makes plans for an interesting career - on his own schedule. To you, the schedule is more important than the outcome.

What you completely overlook is the fact that he is motivated to study things he isn't extremly passionate about at all, for the sake of a good job. There is nothing wrong with taking some time off to do the things he really likes. It sounds like your bf has his priorities in perfect order. Would you prefer it if he suddenly dropped out of school and decided to become a musician on a whim, because that's his real passion? Or head for a different, equally difficult career - instead of a well paying, somewhat interesting one that isn't his passion?
posted by MinusCelsius at 10:30 PM on June 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


I hate to tell you this, but the end of college is the point at which many couples realize that they aren't willing to sacrifice the future they want for themselves for their future as a couple. I think you're getting meaner because you're trying to force him to either declare that your relationship is worth it or to say that it isn't so that the two of you can break up. It's the uncertainty of your future together that is bothering you, not his work ethic.

I empathize; it's painful trying to understand why your partner isn't doing everything in his power to make sure you the two of you remain together. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to make him work harder to be with you. It sounds like he needs to figure himself out on his own time--and that may mean not being on a shared timeline with you.

If I were you, I'd try to enjoy your remaining time together and make my own plans regarding graduate school. I found myself in your shoes when I was graduating, and I regret not applying to a wider range of schools. He's not fully committed to you, so don't make decisions about your future based on his needs.
posted by rhythm and booze at 10:33 PM on June 27, 2012 [20 favorites]


Response by poster: Yes, he is planning to drop a class because he's beyond stressed from working all year. I'm stressed too-- I work and go to school now! I would love to just stay home and make music with him. I would love it if he just majored in music. I don't know what to tell him or how to control my own reactions to this, but I feel like he doesn't understand how hard it is to earn a living and how mean and miserable it can make one. Not that I want him to be mean and miserable; I just want us to go to grad school so we can actually earn a great living doing creative, interesting things.
posted by kettleoffish at 10:36 PM on June 27, 2012


Best answer: Grad school is like, an extremely potentially soul-killing endeavor, so if you have a hard time dealing with stress and uneven expectations in your personal relationships, you might want to consider the choice to go to a certain grad school for your boyfriend. You should go to the right one for you.

He's not fully committed to you, so don't make decisions about your future based on his needs.

... Exactly. Do your own thing, and either he'll come around or he won't. If you get tired of waiting, break up. You'll meet a lot of likeminded folks in grad school.

I once felt like you. I think it was because if I couldn't see a perfect 5-year plan laid out ahead of me (which included planning my boyfriend-of-the-moment's life as well), I felt freaked out and not in control. It turns out you can't force a relationship to exist in the future while you're still in the present. You can certainly break up with him if you feel like his goals and work ethic aren't in line with yours, but you can also take it easy, let him work at his own pace, and accept that you might be in a long-distance relationship for awhile. People who are in healthy relationships are pursuing their own goals for their own reasons and work together on compromises when it comes to the really big stuff. It might be the case that he's not ready to settle in to a fully committed relationship yet. (This is not to say he's inherently afraid of commitment or anything like that, but that he might just need some more time to work on him before he feels it's right to lock in to someone else's life. He might not even be thinking about this in the same terms as you.)

On the other hand, I was also once the hardcore-slacking math major with a humanities soul. Things sucked for me until I switched to humanities, but he's got a different strategy. It's hard to tell whether he's very smart for making this work for him, or still out of touch with himself and floundering a bit. It does sound weird to delay his graduation just to drop one class, but sometimes people need that extra breathing room-- this year I delayed my own graduation because my thesis wasn't on schedule. My boyfriend pushed his graduation back a year, which also makes ours out-of-sync, but we've already got plans and bought tickets to visit each other and we talk all the time about the exciting future.

On preview: I feel so depressed that he would rather chill at home on the internet all summer than work or go to school... dropping one class could delay our previously discussed timeline a whole six months.

I sympathize with you, because this would depress me too. But I think you need to say exactly what you've said here to him (well, that you're depressed that you're planning ahead with him in mind and it doesn't feel like he's doing the same for you) and see what he really thinks. Does he want to be long-distance while he figures things out? Is he not ready to commit like that? Does he hedge around to the point you can tell that he's not ready to articulate his needs? What's his deal in general.

And you can definitely be happy separated from him for a year. I think you're getting so upset because you feel dependent on him for your happiness, and that's a recipe for frustration, because you can't control other people.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:39 PM on June 27, 2012 [9 favorites]


I just want us to go to grad school so we can actually earn a great living doing creative, interesting things.

Why on earth would you think grad school enables this?
posted by Violet Hour at 10:43 PM on June 27, 2012 [67 favorites]


I just want us to go to grad school so we can actually earn a great living doing creative, interesting things.

I hesitate to remark on this because it's sort of a derail, but - this is not what grad school is for, either.

Okay, on preview, I am not alone.
posted by gingerest at 10:45 PM on June 27, 2012 [6 favorites]


Also, just saying, this tends to be a pattern I see in my female friends who are highly motivated yet low self-esteem. They work very hard and achieve and make a lot of excuses for boyfriends who are more interested in living at home and eating their mom's cooking than moving into an apartment. You can and should be happy without him. Waiting all your life for someone to grow up is a recipe for heartbreak. (I know a lot of people assume he just needs some space and that is a definite possibility, but it's also very possible that he's the kind of guy who doesn't really take responsibility for himself and gets kind of mealy-mouthed when you ask what he really wants, which, well, it takes some guts to finally tell yourself that he knows but is too cowardly/lazy to tell you.)

Grad school is the right option for some but it's by no means the ticket to a perfect future. Yeah, preview, two people have already mentioned, but maybe you should think a little more laterally about your futures.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:47 PM on June 27, 2012 [4 favorites]


Response by poster: Thanks! These answers helped a lot.

I guess I'll have to reconsider my own reasons for thinking about grad school and try to cut my dude a break.

Lots of food for thought here, so again, many thanks, guys.
posted by kettleoffish at 10:49 PM on June 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


Time to talk about your mutual goals for the near future, in an honest heartfelt sense - you really don't seem to be on the same page about what's supposed to be happening.
posted by lizbunny at 10:50 PM on June 27, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think what's most telling about that, though, is "I want us to go grad school." He doesn't know what he wants to do yet. He is stressed by the effort of trying to finish his BA, and "doing some serious GPA repair, and making plans for professional school/some kind of interesting career. "

You have a plan and you are trying to compel him to join you in it, and he's resisting, because it's not his plan. It may seem logical to say, "Well, you have no plan, so why not follow mine?" but you can't run his life. (I speak with affection, here, and from sad, although at this point blessedly long-ago, experience. My father first tagged the sort of young man I attracted as the "Luftmensch", the balloon-men who floated around and needed me as an anchor and as someone to direct them. But it's no way to live, for either of you.)
posted by gingerest at 10:51 PM on June 27, 2012 [4 favorites]


Best answer: Sorry, it's not that I am going to grad school for him-- I've always wanted to go, but I don't want to go anywhere he won't be able to follow. I can't imagine being happy being separated from him for a year. That's just what I value most right now.

If you want to go to grad school you go to grad school. If he gets his act together enough to join you he will, if not he won't. But this is your priority at the moment, not his, and the way you go about it is driven by your values and priorities, not his. And you can't make him change either.

I feel like he doesn't understand how hard it is to earn a living and how mean and miserable it can make one. Not that I want him to be mean and miserable; I just want us to go to grad school so we can actually earn a great living doing creative, interesting things.

So you're willing to sacrifice quality of life to pursue whatever goal you have defined and he defines a goal and then works out how he can achieve it whilst enjoying life..That is a fundamentally different approach and you really need to think about how that difference would work for you in the long term.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:58 PM on June 27, 2012 [6 favorites]


Gingerest makes a really good point there. Grad school is not something you plan for when you have no idea what you want to do and don't really have study skills. Grad school is what you do when you are passionate enough about a subject to pretty much destroy everything else in your life in pursuit of studying it. Depending on what you study and where, this may include your finances, and may not include getting a job that employs your degree (or even gives a crap about it). It is a really bad idea to view grad school like undergrad, where you point yourself in a general direction and kind of flounder and bounce around as you amble towards it. It sounds like your guy is nowhere near ready for grad school.
posted by Anonymous at 10:59 PM on June 27, 2012


ed. I say "why aren't you working hard, working double hard, at something you love?" I say, "you study less than anyone I've ever known." And "I can't believe you just want to sit around instead of following me."

This is...really mean. I would probably eventually dump you for this. If I were your dude.

Also, I don't quite see what the problem is, here. I kind of thought you were going to talk finances, like how you been supporting him, and the financial strain is becoming too much, and how this situation is becoming untenable. Which, to many, would be a valid concern.

Instead, you are upset that he isn't meeting your arbitrary standards for proper behavior, which seems especially unfair, as he is actively planning on, and working towards, his career.

I guess you may want to ask yourself: what is the real problem here? If there is one, trying to have a productive conversation about it would be okay, good even. But if you are just being mean and cruel and cutting because he isn't living up to some imaginary idea of what your lives should be, of what you should do, of what thing should end up looking like, you may want to try getting over it by first considering that some of your frustration is rooted in, frankly, a toxic fantasy of how the world should work.

Should is so often ungood.
posted by vivid postcard at 11:04 PM on June 27, 2012 [8 favorites]


Best answer: I sound like your boyfriend (in girl form) - smart but not really driven. I have only two classes left to get my undergraduate degree and it's taken me a year. Why? I've been told I'm really smart and gotten the whole "why aren't you doing well?" speech and it has put this huge pressure on me when I don't know what I'm doing. Also, I have huge anxiety about graduating and moving on to a school where I would have to take out a bunch of student loans, and I should KNOW by now what I want to do as a career, because otherwise I am going to be spending a ton of money on something that might not be something I want to do or I may fuck up my grades again and then get further into debt trying to figure it out.

He could be anything. A musician, an engineer, a scientist, a business owner. I believe he could do anything he puts his mind to.


That's a problem - he keeps getting told that he could be anything and why can't he try harder? Or "if you love me you would try harder". That's wayyy too much pressure for one person. He might be telling himself "what is wrong with me? why can't I do better? I'm disappointing everyone". And it is putting more pressure on him. For me I don't have a passion for one subject - I am interested in SO MUCH that I have no idea what would work for me as a career. What would I enjoy doing for a long period of time? For me it's not so much about the money, but what would make me happy?

Lastly, grad school isn't for everybody, and a lot of people don't go to grad school right after getting their Bachelors anyways. Even if you DID go to grad school together, you two would be so busy with classes and homework that there would be little time to interact that much anyways. If YOU want to go to grad school, go to grad school and do the long distance thing.
posted by littlesq at 11:50 PM on June 27, 2012 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: I am not trying to push my boyfriend to be something he's not.

He has GPA worries, but he wants to attend grad school. This is HIS idea. He has wanted to do this since we met.

Please, no posts about how grad school is survival of the fittest. With slightly better work habits, he could go. I could easily go too, and it wouldn't make me a wimp to prioritize our being together. I believe that career without a life is less fulfilling. Please understand that this is my own choice and my own values speaking. I'm 26. I'm not some naive, giddy sophomore. Nor is my boyfriend.

I'm not the one trying to make him work hard. He just has no idea how to do this, while simultaneously aiming to succeed.

Yes, I am saying that he should work twice as hard. He should. But not for me. Not because of my expectations. If he didn't want to finish his degree, there is no way I would be pushing him-- I go where he goes. But finishing is something he talks about very, very regularly. He also can't wait to move out. He's just tired and demotivated, as am I.
posted by kettleoffish at 11:54 PM on June 27, 2012


Some people aren't the type of people to work very hard. Some people never find something they love to do and can spend every hour of the day working their hardest and loving it.

Working hard, "double hard" as you put it, can be hugely demotivating, because when you're not working on something you really enjoy, you don't really see the benefit of working hard. But for the life of you, you can't find that thing you really enjoy, so instead, you coast along, do as well as you need to, and get yourself a reasonable job where you don't have to work so hard (due to choosing an employable major), and you don't hugely enjoy your job but to be honest that's okay because you can go home in the evenings and not think about work and relax and be pretty happy, all told.

Maybe he's more this type, and the more pressure he gets to work hard or find something he loves (that will pay well), the more demotivated and stressed-out he gets, as well as feeling inadequate for not finding that "one true love" in terms of work. And maybe he doesn't want to work hard, on anything! This is allowed! He can get by in life (and pretty well, to be honest) without ever working really hard, and if that's what he wants to do, why not let him do it?
posted by that girl at 12:19 AM on June 28, 2012 [4 favorites]


I think the thing you need to keep in mind is that study skills are skills, and to some extent developing good work habits is also a skill, and you can't get better at them just by deciding to. It sounds like your boyfriend is one of those people who has been able to skate by on pure smarts without really working very hard, and that can be quite a hard trap to get out of. I appreciate that you want him to achieve his goals, and if he wants to learn to work harder, there are probably resources at his school that are specifically aimed at teaching good study habits. But simply telling him to work harder is almost certainly counterproductive.

Likewise, it takes many people years to "find something they love," and that process is even harder to rush. It took me four years after I got my B.A. to figure out what I wanted to do in grad school. And if he doesn't know what it is that he loves, it's probably best for everybody if he takes the time to figure that out before he goes to grad school. After all, he can be with you even if you're in grad school and he's not. I know a lot of academic/non-academic couples (including myself and my partner), and I think it can be a very good thing for a grad student to have that connection to the "outside world." And perhaps he'll be more enthused about finishing his bachelor's degree if he doesn't feel pressure to head straight into graduate school after he's done.
posted by fermion at 12:29 AM on June 28, 2012 [4 favorites]


"why aren't you working hard, working double hard, at something you love?"
"you study less than anyone I've ever known."
"I can't believe you just want to sit around instead of following me."

These are not inspirational, motivational sentences. Look at them, they're all negative. Why aren't you, you study less, I can't believe ... it would make anyone feel like shit. Inspirational and motivational is "You can accomplish so much more if you study a little bit harder!" or "Come on, just a little bit more study, and we can go to grad school together!"

And even then, if he's a smart slacker, he's heard all of this before, positive or negative. You can't talk someone into motivation; they have to do it themselves.
posted by Xany at 2:53 AM on June 28, 2012 [4 favorites]


There is a bright, handsome young man in my life who does well without studying much and is less motivated than I would like and could do just about anything he wants in life and I wish he were more driven because he has so much potential! And a little more work on his part could equal scholarships and internships and ... it's hard not to nag him to do more. It's hard to know how to motivate him without pounding him over the head with my ideas & hopes & goals for him. I love him so much and I just want him to do well & be happy. I'm his mom and you sound a lot like me.

Don't take on the role of mom in your relationship. That role has its place but not in a romantic partnership. Respect your boyfriend enough to encourage him on the path he chooses to follow. That's what partners are for.
posted by headnsouth at 3:40 AM on June 28, 2012 [20 favorites]


"That would defeat the whole purpose for me of even going to grad school."
"I can't believe you want to sit around instead of following me."
"Why aren't you working hard, working double hard,"
"You study less than anyone I've ever known."

How in the world does what HE studies (and that does seem to be one of your complaints: his field of study: he isn't being "creative" enough to suit you) affect YOU going to grad school? And frankly, WHY should he "follow" you? Are you also studing chemistry? Constantly hearing this kind of thing from my SO would depress and insult me, too: you're got a really weird definition of motivational and inspirational.

I think you have MUCH deeper problems in this relationship than his study habits, and perhaps a bit of a long-distance relationship when you leave for grad school will give both of you some perspective.
posted by easily confused at 3:45 AM on June 28, 2012 [4 favorites]


It seems like you want to control how he feels about stuff. Stop doing that right now.
posted by _Seeker_ at 4:01 AM on June 28, 2012


There's a lot of mixed messages here. You want him to follow you, and yet 'you go where he goes', what does that even mean? Are you applying to grad school now now or are you waiting for him so that you know where to apply to? That's not really fair. It kind of sounds like you want him to give you some direction and he's chafing at the responsibility.

In any case, you kind of have to live and let live. He may just be paying lip service to the idea of grad school - talk is pretty easy. It's what he does that matters and no amount of pushing will help. Just let him be. I know it's frustrating but potential includes drive, and not everytone has it. You clearly do but if you keep emphasising how hard everything is for you you're sending out the message that it might not be worth the effort - don't do that. You can role model action by just cheerfully getting on with stuff. Identify your goals and make them happen. Watching you succeed may be only the inspiration he needs.
posted by freya_lamb at 4:32 AM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also, this It drives me crazy when he talks about taking a break from school sounds like anxiety talking. Why should him expressing the need for down time drive you crazy? Are you worried he doesn't really want what you thought you both wanted? That might well be the case. If so you're going to have to learn to live with his ambiguity until something (i.e. you getting into grad school and making plans) forces the decision.

26 is still pretty young and your paths may diverge for a while - that's totally ok. Loving him doesn't mean you need to take responsibility for his journey, and vice versa.
posted by freya_lamb at 4:54 AM on June 28, 2012


There's a lot of mixed messages here.

exactly. I mean, in your last reply, you say, "I'm not the one trying to make him work hard." and then the next new sentence is, "Yes, I am saying that he should work twice as hard."

Your goal is to motivate him, but doing it with these negative messages works about as well as insulting someone for being fat works to make them want to diet (which by the way, is not very well at all.) To me, it sounds like you want him to want what you want. And he may in fact want those things. Or maybe he wants that, but he wants other contradictory things too. And that's normal, it's how it is, a lot of the time; he has to decide what he wants most. Just remember, it sounds very basic, but -- He's not you. You want your lives and futures to align, and that's natural, but you can't force it to happen; unless he's on a path that makes him happy and fulfilled, he won't stay on it, and that will ultimately lead to more heartbreak than him going another way right now.
posted by lemniskate at 4:57 AM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: I only said those ONCE and have apologized literally hundreds of times.

Also, some of these responses are pretty harsh. I cried for pretty much hours last night reading them. I realize this is partly an issue of phrasing and interpretation but I feel like some people are reading some very negative elements into the question that are not there.
posted by kettleoffish at 5:03 AM on June 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


You can't change someone and you will only make yourself miserable trying. There could a hundred reasons for why he is as he is, some of which you may be able to understand now, some of which you may understand better in the future when you've had more experiences, and some of which may never make sense to you but are still completely valid for him, because you are two different people.

I've seen others go through this - out of pure love and unself-interested concern (in your case your concern is extremely self-interested). It didn't matter, it doesn't do anyone any good because you cannot change someone else.

Your boyfriend will find, perhaps already has found his way *his way* and that's always better than finding someone else's way - which would only turn into dependence on you or resentment or rebellion eventually.

Maybe he wishes you could just relax and have some more flexibility about the future. Or that you would be more practical and choose a field based on pragmatics rather than pleasure in it and hope. Neither of you is more right than the other, and it wouldn't matter that you are so different except that you are committed to sharing your life with him. Tell yourself that thinking that everything about your planned future together would be perfect if only he would change in x way is functionally equivalent to wishing for the sun to rise in the west tomorrow.

If you can't respect him if he doesn't change, you can't stay with him. It's cruel to both of you.

since dropping one class could delay our previously discussed timeline a whole six months.

This is over 6 months? Really? You're making both of yourselves miserable over 6 months?

Have you heard the expression 'Man plans, God laughs?' In terms of life skills, being flexible to roll with change and accommodate difference and reconcile with reality ranks at least as high as being a super hard worker. Maybe take this opportunity to think not about how your boyfriend could change to make your life easier (something you have no control over) but how you could grow as a person - something that is in your control and from which you will reap rewards long past this relationship, or college, or grad school.
posted by Salamandrous at 5:22 AM on June 28, 2012 [8 favorites]


I believe that career without a life is less fulfilling. Please understand that this is my own choice and my own values speaking

You and your boyfriend have fundamentally different values. You're willing to focus and work hard and do things in pursuit of your goal. He prefers to enjoy the journey and figures he'll get there when he gets there, and the destination will likely be pretty good, even if it's not exactly where he planned to end up (if he planned).

Yes, I am saying that he should work twice as hard. He should. But not for me. Not because of my expectations.

He if wanted to, he would be doing this.

There is a certain personality type who messes up college the first time around, gets a few jobs that aren't too taxing while eventually muddling his way through and finishing a degree at his own pace. This person is most definitely not the person who will be focused on having a fulfilling career and drive that motivates him to work twice as hard.

You have to learn to be comfortable with being a "career alpha" in your relationship. You're going to end up going to grad school, and he'll follow you and do "something" for a living. It might be one of those serendipitous things where he meets up with someone working for a great company and he becomes successful, but more likely it will be something he doesn't mind doing and doesn't stress him out too much, and this will be a general pattern. If that future is acceptable to you, then continue with the relationship. He's not going to turn into something he's not.
posted by deanc at 5:23 AM on June 28, 2012 [5 favorites]


Relax. And I mean that most sincerely.

You can choose whether life is going to make you miserable and mean, it doesn't have to.

It sounds like your bf is trying to ensure that doesn't happen to him. Consider whether your response could be, "how can we build more music into your life without dropping the course" rather than "work harder".

You can still have happy and fulfilling careers if you go to grad school on slightly different schedules. Time apart is not the worst thing, nor is time working between undergrad and grad schools. If you work, you could potentially make some money so you don't have to work so hard while studying.

You might also want to read or listen to Brené Brown.
posted by Heart_on_Sleeve at 5:24 AM on June 28, 2012


So what should I say instead? Is there anything I can say?

"That was great."

"Congratulations on finishing that experimental write-up, that took a lot of work."

"I am stressed and feel like an day off, does that sound good to you too?"

The key here for me is that none of these increase the pressure. None of these are conditional.
posted by mountmccabe at 5:34 AM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


How long is it going to take him to finish at his current rate? How much longer would it take if he took a break? How old are you both?

kettleoffish, it would really help us help you if you answered the above questions.

I don't know if you're aware that the majority of undergrads finish their degrees in over four years - I think five years is closer to the truth - but if you're both 20 or 21 and what you're freaking out about is that he might finish his undergrad degree in four and a half or five years, then you're being unrealistic and excessively worried for no reason.

Would you mind telling us how old you both are? And how many years you've both been in school?
posted by mediareport at 5:42 AM on June 28, 2012


(oh, I see you're 26. How old is he?)
posted by mediareport at 5:45 AM on June 28, 2012


If your boyfriend is not an ambitious person, or is lazy, or just prefers playing music to "onward and upward" you can't cure him--it's really okay for people to prefer those things. You can't talk anyone into being different than who they actually are. If he wants different study habits and so on, he really has to be the person to make the moves to develop those -- not just mouth the words 'I'd like to be better at this' in an abstract way, but call and make an appointment with a tutor or counselor or professional who can help him develop those habits, and that person can't be you because he wants to please you. To do this, he has to want to please himself.

Being floaty or lacking ambition or having different values in life or even being flat-out lazy (pejorative as it sounds) aren't things that make someone a bad person, and even many type A people can have relationships with those types that are satisfying and that complement their attributes and great ways, but if you're not the sort of person who can take that sort of thing in an partnered relationship (I am not, for one) you may want to find someone who is more compatible with you in terms of ambition and energy in the long term.

In the short term, as others have said, you might want to recognize that on a fundamental level, this is not your problem. You want him to keep step with you through life, because you love him, but it's not entirely something in your control. What you can control is your attitude about it (and your attitude about your partner's behavior should overall be positive) and how you live your own life.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:12 AM on June 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


I don't know what subject you are in. In my opinion, getting a BA in chemistry is hard as hell unless you basically have superpowers. And if you are not very interested in it? Yikes. So he has figured out a way to do it, well enough to be raising his GPA. That may be just about as fast as he can go. He may also have figured out the point where he is force-feeding himself material and will lose most of it overnight. If you work in any kind of subject with that amount of detail and memorization, there is that point. About half my friends who got into med school-- so, people who needed chemistry but weren't maybe super talented or interested in it-- passed organic chemistry by taking it in the summer so it wasn't competing with other courses. So-- assuming it is wise for him to be doing this degree-- it may be going about as well as possible. Don't keep poking him to make a show of studying more.

I also agree with people who say you (as a couple) seem to have an awful lot of problems to be assuming you'll be going to grad school together. The whole thing sounds incredibly stressful to me.
posted by BibiRose at 6:19 AM on June 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


Man, I feel for you. A lot of people are writing and saying they are basically like your boyfriend, and I am writing to say I have basically been you. And everyone here has a lot of good advice about recognizing that he is on his own path, with his own values, and maybe those don't sync up with yours, some people take longer, some people like to be relaxed, etc etc - and that's going to be either ok or not ok with you.

Thinking back on when I was in this particular relationship, I realize that over time, I started seeing every drag and lag and self-inflicted hiccup in my ex bf's pokey progress as a distinct personal rebuke to our future together. I also saw him as full of potential - potential that made me love him and hope for his fulfillment.

It wasn't just that I wanted him to work harder - it was that if he didn't, it was because he wasn't trying hard enough and didn't know how to - AND ALSO most importantly that he clearly didn't want to be with me enough, because if he did, he would be busting his ass to get to the moon and back. Because I would bust ass to get to the moon and back! If he wanted to "take some time off," he clearly wasn't 100% fighting for our future as a couple, which I thought I was working very hard on my end every single day to do. Time off from ultimately achieving OUR SHARED HAPPINESS? WTF? I felt very betrayed, and resentful, constantly.

This is a super toxic train of thought and way to live.

I wonder if this is underlying some of your frantic anxiety as well. You see a future together where you are shining golden creatively happy couple. It's not a wrong dream to have. I don't think you're being unreasonable, or being an aggressive harpy, or however else people are piling on. But you do have to decide on your own before you get any more twisted up and bitter - are you going to continue to take his reluctance to put his nose to the grindstone as a referendum on the future of your relationship? Because that way lies heartbreak and a slow degradation of dignity for both of you.
posted by sestaaak at 6:25 AM on June 28, 2012 [21 favorites]


Is this about money? Are you working your butt off to support him while he lazily makes his way through college? It would bother me, too, if my partner was taking advantage of my hard work to goof off. Just a thought.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:35 AM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also, some of these responses are pretty harsh. I cried for pretty much hours last night reading them. I realize this is partly an issue of phrasing and interpretation but I feel like some people are reading some very negative elements into the question that are not there.

That's because many of these elements sound very negative. Honestly, if you are trying to figure out how to support him and feel better about the situation, you may want to consider saying things that sound less cutting (which would make him feel better) and might consider that your own negative perception, and the anxiety the comes from it, is also what is making you so unhappy.

Look, I understand that different approaches to life can cause frustration and conflict. Example: I have a friend who I could never be in a relationship with (not that I would want to, all's good here, but speaking hypothetically) because he is always on the go, go, go! While I tend to do things like spend an entire Saturday witha freezer mug of beer, lying out in the backyard for 8 hours, seeing if I can see the tomatoes ripen. That would drive him bonkers; on Saturdays, he has to DO something. He's the kind of guy who, if something breaks in the house, it WILL be fixed in 3 days. Meanwhile, I have a door that's been borked and unfixed for, um, two years. From his perspective, I would probably seem lazy. From my perspective, he does things like, when he only has $500 in savings, will put an emergency rush (but not critical) construction job costing $5000 on his credit card, just be sure he hits his 3-day, self-prescribed window. Dude has buckets of debt, which I find amazing, while I have buckets of degrees and some tomatoes, so I can't be a total fuckup (even if the door is still broken).

Thing is: I don't think he should be convinced to slow down, or to think before blowing cash on all his projects, or be motivated to do better with his savings. I don't think anyone needs to tell him he's doing it wrong, because he is just doing it his way. And, hey, his house is really nice and he has gotten some neat stuff done. I did, however, tell him to lay off he projects whe he were roommates and he kept not paying rent, but that was a very specific concern.

If you are worried about cash, talk to him about it. Worried about being in a long distance relationship? Talk to him. That's good. Identify what you're concerned about, and tell him about it.

But if you're frustrated because he's not hitting imaginary milestones...? What are you gonna do when, in 15 years (after a grad degree and a sweet chem engineering job or whatever) he announces he's burned out and wants to take a massive paycut to become a HS history teacher? Or mailman? Or ski instructor? Life doesn't go according to mental plans; consider what core issues are truly important to you, and which are fictions.

long story short: this may be a genuine incompatibility, that maybe you guys can or can't work through. But what you say sounds mean and arbitrary, and may be something you want to reconsider. That's what we're picking up on
posted by vivid postcard at 7:03 AM on June 28, 2012 [4 favorites]


Oh, another "I am your guy" chiming in. I'm currently trying my best to change, to work harder and have more motivation, and it is HARD. I mean months of therapy and stacks of books and deep painful reflection HARD. I haven't succeeded yet and progress is much slower then I was hoping for, and I know I'm going to have a lot of back slides and "1 step forward, 2 steps back" moments.

Basically you are asking your boyfriend to change something fundamental about his personality, something that was laid down in his foundation long before you showed up. And I know you've never tried to do that for yourself or you would realize how hard and how much work it is, and when the problem is a lack of hard work and motivation...!

Would you date someone who has never shown any interest in physical activity, doesn't even own a pair of shoes they can comfortably jog in, and then tell them if they can't run a full marathon with you next year that you have no future together?

I do sympathize with you, I've tried to change people I've dated and bashing your head on that brick wall when you haven't even acknowledged the wall is there is its own world of pain. The choice comes down to this, to stay in this relationship either you change the fundamental part of you that needs a partner who has more drive, or he changes the fundamental part of himself that doesn't have that drive.

You need to accept that the only choice you can make is the one for yourself.
posted by Dynex at 7:21 AM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm not the one trying to make him work hard.
Yes, I am saying that he should work twice as hard.

So which one is it? Because that's pretty different from
How can I help my boyfriend see the light at the end of the tunnel-- or seek out the resources where he can find it?

Also, OP, you may not be giddy sophomore, but your questions and followups do suggest a certain naivety that I think some people are trying to shake you out of. I'm just going to suggest that you re-think how you are framing your questions and your relationship, because you are likely going to damage it beyond repair at the rate you seem to be going. Suggesting he see a career counselor/talk to his advisor, positive feedback with he is working hard, talking to him about your future plans, are all things that you can do that I think are more effective than trying to essentially drag him into your shared future.

I've been where you are, so I can sympathise. I really, really want you to consider thinking more about your individual goals than the ones you think you share with your boyfriend.
posted by sm1tten at 7:29 AM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Best answer: I hear you saying that these responses sound pretty harsh. I agree that they are probably very hard to hear.

I'm a female your age. From your responses I wonder if you are wrestling with the "Superwoman" idea and how to have a future that includes a wonderful, fulfilling career and a wonderful, fulfilling family and a rich social and community life and and and...

I can attest that this kind of future seems possible, I've been told it's possible, but the more and more immersed I become in the "adult" world the more difficult and complicated it seems. Definitely, I can't do it alone, I've thought. I need a partner, someone who will have my back and I will have theirs and together we will build that life together. I've dated several men who I wanted to be that partner, and they seemed pretty much perfect and game for it all "except..." No matter how hard I tried though I couldn't get rid of that "except," I couldn't quite nudge them into the right behavior that I needed to power forward and get that perfect future.

So I had to let them go, (this is just what I did, not a behavior recommendation for you) and I'm starting to let go of the idea that I can convince anyone to be that partner. I think if someone has the desire and potential to go that distance with me it will probably be their own idea, one they act on without prompting or debate. I am also thinking I should probably see about what I can do for myself, by myself, so I can be the awesome person I want to be without having to wait around or try and suss awesomeness in specific areas out of someone else. Maybe along the way I'll meet someone who it is easy to share the awesome with, maybe not.

I don't know what's going to happen. But just the ability to consider alternatives to the Superfuture idea I've been holding onto for a while has been very personally fulfilling. I'm actually getting more done towards goals I've had for a long time because I haven't been distracted with the emotional work of coaxing someone along with me.

Again, I'm sorry if I read things into your responses that weren't there. I don't think your approach is Bad, it's actually very consistent with the ethos that motivation requires commitment to certain ideas and goals without constantly being distracted by doubt. I guess you will have to decide for yourself whether your commitment to certain ideas and goals is helping or hindering your long-term dreams.
posted by newg at 7:35 AM on June 28, 2012 [9 favorites]


Just to clarify, is your plan that the two of you will attend the same grad school? Because, as someone who has been through grad school admission, and then seen what it looks like from the other side, I have to tell you that this is going to be very, very hard to pull off. If you're applying to top programs (and you shouldn't go to grad school unless you're going to go to a good drag school), it's going to be hard for either one of you to get in to a specific school. Hell, my good friend, who is brilliant and just finished his PhD and got an awesome postdoc, had to apply to grad school for three years before he finally got in to one program, and off the waitlist no less. So for both of you to be able to go to the same grad school, one of you has to be the kind of superstar applicant that's just going to get in everywhere. If that doesn't describe either of you, then I suggest you let him off the hook a little bit, because the timetable that he's disrupting was never a realistic one to begin with.
posted by Ragged Richard at 7:54 AM on June 28, 2012 [8 favorites]


Yep, I've been your boyfriend. I did very well in school despite never studying or exerting much effort. I'd rather enjoy life by my standards than chase a lot of arbitrary goals. My husband is very much the opposite and it has sometimes caused us conflict because he can't always understand my priorities.

There's the possibility that this future you're building up in your imagination isn't being invested with the same meaning by your boyfriend. Sounds like he's working on a degree just for the purpose of getting a (not terribly interesting) job. I wouldn't work "double hard" for that, either. What is the purpose of your life plan unfolding on your terms? Is it because you want to achieve a certain milestone (publish that novel, release the album, movie etc . . .) by a certain age or in a certain order? Are you concerned about time factoring into the next steps in the relationship, however you define those? IMO, guys, especially before 30, can have a hard time aligning themselves with the family/relationship goals of their significant others. I've known women who knew they wanted to have X number of kids/ own a home/ achieve X career milestone before their 30th birthdays, while their partners largely lived like college students. I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of modern women seem to be more aware of and motivated by time than their male counterparts. I'm not sure what to do about that. It seems to change pretty quickly once guys get into their 30s.

There was also something in the phrasing you used with your BF that makes me think you resent his leisure time somewhat. Make sure you do things for yourself and don't just focus on what he is/isn't doing. Ask yourself if you would want to be with him even if he never changed. Do you love him or just the idea of what you can make of him?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 7:58 AM on June 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


Best answer: I actually think your boyfriends path is more valid than yours. To me.

All that says is that there is no one right way. The problem I am seeing here is that you are both on different paths and that is a cause of stress for you. It needn't be. But you need to be o.k. with trusting your partner on his own path.

This stress all sounds fear based to me. Your need to be on a timeline and path for your own security, so you can control your future. You need him to be on the same path so you can have a better grip on the future and plan it out. I think it would be healthy for you to let go of some of that and be comfortable in having the future a bit unknown. Because in reality, that is what you are going to get, an unknown future.

Even the year apart sounds like it is coming from fear. A year is nothing, and there is no way you are not going to see him 'at all' during that time.

I do think this is a good time for you to practice letting go of tying to plan out what happens in life and focus more on enjoying the journey.
posted by Vaike at 8:24 AM on June 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


I might also add that if you want a committed relationship, now, you're more likely to have it with him than with someone else. Why? Because a more ambitious boyfriend will be focused on moving somewhere that's best for his career or graduate school and will put a lot of conditionals on your relationship when decisions about career and graduate school are inherently unstable (eg, "I might get into this grad school allowing me to be close to kettleoffish, but I might not, so obviously I can't commit to kettleoffish now, because I don't know what the final outcome will be.") In my experience, this gets a little easier with the ambitious types when they both have a certain level of security and confidence in themselves that allows them to believe that "if I follow this relationship, my academic and professional life will still be fine."

With your current boyfriend, it doesn't really matter, because if he is working as a paralegal in state X if you get into one grad school or managing a restaurant in state Y if you get into another grad school, it doesn't really matter to him, because he has no particular "goal" he's focused on fulfilling other than being with you and working at a job he doesn't mind too much.

On the other hand, if you have fantasies of being part of a "power couple" -- look elsewhere. I know that sounds harsh, but the pool of possible partners where you SHARE. YOUR. BIG. DREAMS. TOGETHER! is not going to be found amongst the just-getting-by group of people in their mid-20s muddling through their degrees and taking the summers off to work on their music (my reaction: "people take summers off? Summers are for getting the awesome internship to build your resume!")
posted by deanc at 8:48 AM on June 28, 2012


The thing is, he's not going to change. He's identified a lifestyle that works for him, his own special compromise between doing what he wants and doing what needs to be done. It sounds like your ideal is farther over toward what needs to be done. If you sit down and talk with him about short term goals like graduation and applying to grad schools, there's a best-case scenario in which there's a sprint to the finish and you're where you want to be 1 year from now.

However, he's not changing. He might do this short-term behavioral pattern if you bargain/nag/encourage just right, but it's not a long-term solution. How will his current habits and his ideal lifestyle match up with the challenges of grad school? I can easily imagine you in your first year of grad school, both swamped by all the work, and him deciding it's not where he want to be or how he wants to live. Be prepared for these same issues to be even bigger in the future.

There are no magic words to get him to change. There's no compromise in which either of you changes your personal long-term vision or lifestyle goals and is happy with it. The only compromise changes the expectations that you hold for him, not that he holds for himself or you hold for yourself.
posted by aimedwander at 9:54 AM on June 28, 2012


I am sorry people are piling on. For. One thing, I feel like we have not fully understood the background behind your question. You said you are 26 and close to finishing up your degree, and your boyfriend is six months to a year away from his degree. I am assuming he is around your age, 25-27, if he is much older or younger then this is a maturity issue and most likely not worth you waiting for m to grow up.

Why are both of you finishing your degrees so late? Was the reason early immaturity or a lack of funds and do you have the same reason? I can see a scenario where you were denied school until you could save for it and then watching someone with no money worries feel they could take all the time in the world would feel frustrating. How is he supporting himself? You mention you are working while going to school while he is thinking of taking the summer off school and not working. That isn't something someone past the age of 18 should be thinking about unless they are independently wealthy. And loans /= wealth. Planning on "taking it easy" on the back of loans would impact your finances if you stayed together.

I think all your talking about careers and stability are tied into how you feel about money, if he has different values around money then that is a conflict you need to get to the root of and solve together.
posted by saucysault at 10:59 AM on June 28, 2012


He has GPA worries, but he wants to attend grad school. This is HIS idea. He has wanted to do this since we met.

Sometimes people say things that they know the other person wants to hear. They want to want those things, especially because it earns them the other person's approval, and envisioning them seems great (when the hard prep work is achieved effortlessly), but when it gets down to it they do not have the fire in the belly that makes it happen.

Look at his actions and you'll see what he's really comfortable with. Chances are, he's not going to turn around and become a type A powerhouse in his lifetime. Forget his upbringing and other excuses for why he's got poor study habits and such.

I actually had a boyfriend make a very long distance move to be with me. I was convinced the move was a super great thing for both of us and he'd have great opportunities (opportunities he said he wanted). But lo, he moved and was miserable and disliked the location and only told me he was excited and whatnot because he liked the idea but not the reality. We broke up and he went right back to his former location, doing exactly the same low opportunity thing he'd been complaining about for a few years. Which he is still doing, 5 years later, and complaining about the same things, and miserable in the same ways. I now see that this is what makes him happy.

Be careful about assuming your dream is his dream.
posted by griselda at 11:37 AM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


It is possible for lazy coasters to change. I was a lazy coaster and I changed, because I fell in love with the valedictorian and it started to get embarrassing to hand in papers three days late for no real reason when she was working so hard all the time. I recognized (without being able to articulate it at the time) that she was just at lot better at many organizational and effort related things in her life and that her life was better than mine because of it, and I'd do well to learn from her. That she was just as smart as I was, and being smart wasn't a good excuse for not following through on the little things. So I did and I have and I do, and it's been an ongoing process over the last dozen years. I'm still a lazy coaster at heart, but I'm a lot better about being effortful about not being one. Better every day. We are happy with our careers and our lives.

But she rarely says anything to me about these kinds of issues, and when she does, it doesn't go that well...it certainly doesn't inspire me to make the particular changes that are driving her crazy. I have to come to it on my own, out of a desire to improve myself, and a desire to impress her and earn her respect. I am sure that she felt similar to the way you feel many times. Hopefully not too often anymore.

All of this is to say, I'm not sure that there's anything healthy that you can do except decide for yourself what you want and what you expect, and be prepared to move along from him if that doesn't match up with his reality.
posted by Kwine at 11:52 AM on June 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


Best answer: In the end, it's too exhausting to try to get other people in your life on the the right path, even when they're on blatantly destructive ones, (as your boyfriend's is not). You end up exhausted and all you can see when you look at them is their potential and how they're not reaching it. In your head you can list their assets, (usually with "buts" and "if onlys" attached), but in your heart all you can see are problems to be solved.

This is going to sound completely counterintuitive but here's my advice.

- Get distracted. Find something you love to do, even if it's just a couple hours on the weekend.

Better if it involves other people.

- Limit yourself to 5 or 10 minutes thinking about your boyfriend. Then resolutely change the subject. It'll be hard but keep gently reminding yourself that "we're not here for that right now," the same as you would if you were teaching a puppy not to hop on the couch.

Let go of him as your problem to solve for at least a day- a week would be better. All this will wait, I promise.

As part of that, let go of any stories you're telling yourself about what his behavior means. For instance- "If he loved me, he'd spend the weekend studying. If he cared about our future, he'd.... X,Y,Z." Just drop those for a week.

Just for a few days, think about what you'd like, without including him in the equation. Be selfish. If he weren't a consideration for whatever reason- maybe he's tootling along with you in perfect harmony. Maybe he's in Scandinavia visiting relatives for the next 6 months- what would you like right this moment? How about next month?

See where you're mind's at after that.

If it works, and it usually has for me, you will have hit the reset button in your brain. It sounds like right now you're in that sort of obsessive, black and white, up-against-the-wall mode of thinking, so reset that. There are more answers than this or that. There are dozens and dozens. Most importantly, they will all work out.
posted by small_ruminant at 3:39 PM on June 28, 2012 [7 favorites]


Response by poster: Thank you for responding sensitively to my reply.

(in your case your concern is extremely self-interested).

I have to refute this because it's not true. Urging someone to work is not always self interest.

It's like a verse from Inspektah Deck in Wu Tang Clan:

It's been twenty-two long hard years of still strugglin
Survival got me buggin, but I'm alive on arrival
I peep at the shape of the streets
And stay awake to the ways of the world cause shit is deep
.....
But as the world turns I learned life is hell
Living in the world no different from a cell
Everyday I escape from Jakes givin chase, sellin base
Smokin bones in the staircase
Though I don't know why I chose to smoke sess
I guess that's the time when I'm not depressed
But I'm still depressed, and I ask what's it worth?
Ready to give up so I seek the Old Earth
Who explained working hard may help you maintain
to learn to overcome the heartaches and pain
....
but yo, it gots to be accepted
That what? That life is hectic.


Old Earth tells Inspektah Deck to work. Not out of self interest, but because life is hectic. And that is the most valuable answer he can come up with. I am not saying that I'm right, but it's the only answer that I really have. I went through school refusal, panic attacks, failure, and flunking. It helped me eventually to block out the fear and just go for it. I think when my boyfriend feels depressed, or upset about school, I see that or something, and I just want to help.

It wasn't just that I wanted him to work harder - it was that if he didn't, it was because he wasn't trying hard enough and didn't know how to - AND ALSO most importantly that he clearly didn't want to be with me enough, because if he did, he would be busting his ass to get to the moon and back. Because I would bust ass to get to the moon and back! If he wanted to "take some time off," he clearly wasn't 100% fighting for our future as a couple, which I thought I was working very hard on my end every single day to do. Time off from ultimately achieving OUR SHARED HAPPINESS? WTF? I felt very betrayed, and resentful, constantly.


This is me. I am this person. I recognize here, in my insistence that my boyfriend should accommodate my grad school plans that I am treating someone else as stage dressing. And I feel bad for that. This is meddling and is hurtful to someone I care about. I will try to remind myself.
posted by kettleoffish at 4:59 PM on June 28, 2012


I am assuming he is around your age, 25-27

The lack of info from the poster makes it really difficult to know what's going on. She says the boyfriend's not some giddy sophomore, so your assumption might be correct, but he could also be a 21-year-old rising senior who just finished a tough year in a major he doesn't enjoy, knows that he's got a tough final year coming, and just wants to relax during the summer instead of stress himself out.

*shrug* We don't know. We do know the poster is upset that her boyfriend is planning to drop a class this summer, which seems to be the precipitator for this question. Given that she herself doesn't appear to have taken the traditional 4-year-right-out-of-high-school path to an undergraduate degree, and absent more information, "let him finish his undergraduate education the way he feels like finishing it" seems like solid advice.

It sounds like right now you're in that sort of obsessive, black and white, up-against-the-wall mode of thinking, so reset that.

That seems like solid advice, too.
posted by mediareport at 5:01 PM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


You're in two different places. You know what you want and have developed uber awesome study skills and are feeling invincible, if only your boyfriend would step up and do his part. He's not there yet. He's still figuring all this out. He's not ready or able to make the sorts of commitments and long term plans that you want him to. He says he is, but his actions show that he's not. It's not fair, but that's where you're at. You don't have a long term partner yet. He may have that potential, but not at the moment.

So you have to decide. 1. Stick around and hope he manages to push through to a place where he's able to commit and make plans. 2. Make your own plans, and then try and find a way to make your plans possible whilst remaining together. 3. Break up and find someone who is able to make long term plans with you.

I would suggest 2. It might end at 3, but 1. will make you crazy.
posted by kjs4 at 5:27 PM on June 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Correct we are both in our mid twenties.
posted by kettleoffish at 5:39 PM on June 28, 2012


Yes, I am saying that he should work twice as hard. He should.

Nope. There is no SHOULD here, except for this one: you should take about five thousand steps back and check yourself, sister. Because what you are doing is putting your wants and needs above your boyfriend's, because you've convinced yourself that you know what is best for him. And, to be really blunt with you, you don't know what is best for him. You assume that you know what is best for him, because you know what you want him to do, and you assume that your wants and needs trump his own free will.

That is not the way to treat someone you claim to love. The way you treat him sounds more contemptuous and controlling, and frankly abusive. If I were friends with someone being treated this way, I would encourage them to get the hell out of this relationship ASAP.
posted by palomar at 6:40 PM on June 28, 2012 [3 favorites]


Best answer: Look, I am not abusing my boyfriend. I'm helping him. I've gotten on board with all of his ideas. For the millionth time, I am not the one who said he should be a musician-- this was one idea of his. He is also interested in filmmaking. He got the idea to do the Ph.D. from a few classes that he took that he really enjoyed in the humanities. He decided he likes writing. I also think he would make a good professor-- where did I say he has to do these things? I mean for god's sake, I think some of you just like saying inflammatory things.

He actually dreads the degree in chem, and dreads the job afterwards, hence the feeling of being lost and wanting to do something creative (like grad school). But he has to retake about 10 classes in chemistry, because his GPA is 0.00 from a few academic issues he had when first starting school. All of those classes go in his GPA as a 0. He doesn't like this subject, he feels trapped in school, but he dreads the working world, and school is probably the most intellectually interesting place for him to be. I am trying to support him emotionally. He also lives with his parents, which he dislikes. I think stopping the school program and staying home on the internet would psychologically compound his stress right now. I completely freaked out when he told me, yes, I suck. Someday, when I have a garden to sit in, I will sit in it and count tomatoes. For now, I'm a bad girlfriend, right? The only way I get tomatoes is if someone throws at me.
posted by kettleoffish at 7:47 PM on June 28, 2012


Best answer: Your boyfriend sounds like a spectacularly not great candidate for graduate school. I don't know what to tell you about anything else, but I can definitely tell you that:

"You have to work harder so that you can get into grad school, and if you don't you're a lazy asshole who is undermining my five-year life plan!"

is a HUGE red herring.

It's really impossible to tell what the issue actually is, because you keep moving the goalposts and obscuring any picture of what is really going on with him. But what I can tell you is that the issue is definitely not that he has a piss-poor work ethic and doesn't study hard enough.

Frankly, my advice to your boyfriend would be to not worry about grad school and just take whatever courses he needs to graduate with a degree. If at some future time he is absolutely POSITIVE that he MUST get a graduate degree, he can meet with an admissions counselor who could give him a sense of how he might be able to become a more attractive candidate.

(BTW, if I was on an intense plan of having to retake two entire semesters worth of courses that I absolutely hated, simply because the zeroes were destroying my GPA, I would want to take the summer off, too. Jeez. Cut the dude a break.)
posted by Sara C. at 7:58 PM on June 28, 2012 [2 favorites]


Normally I hate it when people say, "Take a deep breath." But I am going to say it to you. Take a deep breath! You sound so incredibly stressed out! I don't think you are abusing your boyfriend, so much as putting excessive pressure on yourself and possibly projecting it onto your boyfriend as well. The way you talk to/about your boyfriend, I am guessing, in some ways reflects the way you talk to yourself.

From your posting history, I can't tell if you've got your school plans sorted out yet or not. As of quite recently, it sounds like you were still unsure what field you were going into. So to worry this much about whether your boyfriend can go with you to grad school is really premature. There is so much that can happen between now and then. Getting ahead of yourself with worry about that is going to be paralyzing in the log term.

I think you should firm up your plans (if they are not firm already), take whatever action is indicated now, enjoy the relationship if you can and if not, stop torturing yourself with it and let him go. You've got too much on your mind now.
posted by BibiRose at 8:18 PM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


Mod note: OP, it's sort of time for you to take a walk from this thread for a little bit and stop thread-sitting. I get that this is stressful for you, but this is for helping you solve a problem, not for a continued discussion about this general topic. Thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:30 PM on June 28, 2012 [1 favorite]


I guess I am still not understanding how you get that your boyfriend is motivated for grad school, or that he would be successful. Being smart and creative does not mean grad school and a professional degree is a good choice.

For better or for worse, this is how most people approach undergrad:
Step 1 - choose to go to college with a vague idea of your field
Step 2 - get into a college
Step 3 - change major at least 4 times and eventually graduate

That is not how grad school works. This is grad school:
Step 1 - Discover a specific subject or career path you REALLY REALLY want to do
Step 2 - Perform intensive research on programs involved in that subject
Step 3 - Decide on a sub-topic or sub-field of the subject/career path your REALLY REALLY want to do
Step 4 - Narrow programs down further
Step 5 - Rifle through narrowed down programs, making sure there are specific professors, classes, labs, research groups you want to work with
Step 6 - Become focused on admission to your very specific programs, tailoring your work and admissions process to those requirements
Step 7 - Enter program and hope you didn't make a mistake, because you do not get to switch

This "I want to go to grad school and get my Ph.D" without an accompanying "in this subfield of this general field, preferably to this type of program, preferably to these schools" represents someone who likes the idea of grad school but lacks the sufficient motivation or knowledge to actually get there and succeed. If your boyfriend wanted to go to grad school, really wanted to go to grad school, you would not need to motivate him to study or finish classes or any of that because he would realize getting into most grad programs, no matter the field, is really competitive and he needs to do all he can to boost his resume.

I guess this whole spiel is my way of saying "People do what they want to do." Which is to say, your boyfriend may say he wants to go to "grad school", and you may think he would do great at "grad school", but that does not actually mean he wants to go to grad school and would do great at grad school until he displays the interest and skills necessary to be admitted and succeed at grad school. Which he hasn't, and from your description he doesn't seem that motivated to get there.

Rather than thinking about how you can support him to finish college or grad school, you need to look at what he's actually doing now, because that is what he actually wants to do, whether he admits that to himself or not. And then you gotta decide whether you are OK with supporting him making the choices he is actually making, rather than his lip service or the choices you think he should make.

It is totally possible to go from bum to worker. I totally failed at college my first time around, then took some time off, found some things I really loved to do, worked through some personal issues, and now that I'm back I work ten times as hard as I ever did before simply because now I want to succeed, rather than thinking I should. And believe me, the whole time I was flunking class after class I got all kinds of motivational speeches and support from friends and academic advising and I told myself all kinds of things about how much I wanted to finish and what I wanted out of my life. Well, they couldn't do shit to motivate me and I couldn't do shit to motivate myself. It took stepping away, admitting I didn't want to be there, and just piddling around doing shit I really loved to do before I was ready to go back to school--and then it was for a specific purpose.
posted by Anonymous at 9:20 PM on June 28, 2012


Echoing some other comments here- graduate school in the humanities no longer sets you on a career path that leads to a job as a professor in the humanities. Really. This option does not exist anymore. Do not go to graduate school in the humanities. It isn't fun. It isn't the appropriate place to go just because you love film, or music, or literature and want to hang out and read and watch films a lot and talk about them. If you love writing detailed, highly organized research papers on obscure subjects and can identify exactly which ones you want to focus on, and you are good with spending hours and hours on your own doing this work on schedule, and being incredibly self-disciplined and goal-oriented and teaching and scrambling to cover your bills on a small stipend and are mentally tough enough to do this for 5-6 years and produce a dissertation.. Well, I still say don't go, because that tenure-track job doesn't exist.

Why not just take whatever is needed to wrap up a B.A. in any major that he's close to finishing, and get a job ASAP. The working world is not that bad. It can be tedious and boring but to be honest, if you really do dread and hate school, the working world actually sucks less than school. I know a lot of people who are highly successful in their careers and didn't discover just how motivated and talented they were until they got a job, because they hated school.
posted by citron at 9:27 PM on June 28, 2012 [6 favorites]


I sympathize with you - I have friends who are very similar to your boyfriend, but those same habits and lack of goals would drive me insane in a romantic partner.

Maybe it would help to think about this in terms of utility functions; your boyfriend prioritizes time more than you do. I find that framing my friends' decisions in that light helps curb my judgmental thoughts.

And of course, this is a little cynical but also probably true: you might be moving for grad school and there's a good chance that that would end your relationship. Why not kick the can down the road and worry about long-term compatibility once that's decided?
posted by ripley_ at 10:54 PM on June 28, 2012


He sounds like he's got some serious anxiety getting in his way. He lives with his parents and his girlfriend responds with ACT NOW!!!!!!!11WORK HARDER!!1!!GOGOGOGOGO!!! to every idle interest he mentions, so it's no wonder he feels anxious about finishing this chapter and moving on to the next.

I suggest that he get some advice from someone who doesn't have a stake in his future. Like a guidance counselor, or a therapist, or a bartender. Anyone who will give him space to explore his options on his terms and figure out what he wants to do next. I mean, a chemistry degree doesn't mean he has to be stuck in a windowless lab for the next 40 years. He could be creatively writing science articles for kids, or making youtube how-to videos of sciencey pranks, or whatever. He could be tending bar and creating new recipes. He could be a baker. And then he can change his mind next year and do something else.

My son is suffering from the same kind of self-sabotaging paralysis as the end of high school looms weirdly large in front of him. I don't understand it, because the entire world is at his feet. But he feels that he has to decide RIGHT NOW what he is going to do FOREVER so he is steadfastly refusing to decide, refusing to act. But of course, he doesn't have to decide right now.

And neither does your boyfriend. If your boyfriend feels as though he's locked into chemistry, or locked into whatever you are "encouraging" him to lock himself into, then he's going to push back. If you want to encourage him, then encourage him to get some *objective* advice from someone who is not you, and let him do what he needs to do for himself at his own pace. That may or may not be a pace and a path that converges with yours. That's ok, because you deserve to follow your own path too, at your own pace.
posted by headnsouth at 5:51 AM on June 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


Like a guidance counselor

Strongly seconding that, if he hasn't been in touch with at least one, and probably two different ones, already. In particular, I find myself wondering who suggested the plan for him to re-take ten (!) courses in a major he doesn't like just to boost his GPA, because I'm having a hard time imagining a guidance counselor getting behind that one. If it was his idea to help him get a job in a field he dreads, well, not sure what to say to that, but he should definitely be talking regularly to a few people at his school who specialize in advising students with questions about their major and future - i.e., guidance counselors or professors who do mentoring.

(Btw, if he switches to something he really cares about, and then decides to go to grad school, it is possible for a smart person to create a narrative about his college years that could account for a bad GPA in the classes he felt trapped in, perhaps even providing GPAs both with and without the chemistry classes to bolster the point, and showing the stellar performance since he focused on what he does enjoy. But yeah, if it's not a regular piece of this puzzle already, there should be ongoing advising by a professional or two with a clear perspective outside of the situation.)
posted by mediareport at 6:40 AM on June 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


OP, it seems to me, from your updates, that the plan right now is for your boyfriend to get an undergrad degree in chemistry, then go to graduate school for a PhD in the humanities. If this is correct, then I think you may really benefit from a chat with someone who knows a lot about grad school in the humanities (he would obviously benefit more, but he's not asking the question). If this sounds like something that might be helpful, feel free to MeMail me - I'm about two months away from defending for my English PhD. There's a lot of misinformation and mistaken assumptions about grad school floating around out there, and it sounds like some of them may be getting in his way. I'm also happy to answer any of his questions, if you want to put us in touch.

P.S. I made this offer here instead of contacting you directly because I know you're feeling a little overwhelmed by this thread, so I thought you wouldn't like it to start spilling over into your inbox.
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:15 PM on June 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


At 26 you should not be planning your future together. Plan and work towards your own future, let him do the same, and try to enjoy spending time together now. You're too young and your futures too uncertain to assume you will/have to be together forever, especially if doing so is causing problems, which it obviously is. Good luck! You're at a scary and stressful point in life (I've totally been there, slacker bf and all)--cut yourself some slack.
posted by désoeuvrée at 7:14 PM on June 30, 2012


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