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June 25, 2012 10:37 AM Subscribe
Help resolve issues we're having with our realtor.
So our realtor isn't exactly doing a stellar job in my mind. He's been both our buyers and sellers agent during the process.
I found the place we're currently under contract to buy. I told him when we needed an inspector and he scheduled one at a time that didn't work for us so I went out and found an inspector. He said the inspector would get the lockbox code and set up the inspection. Inspection company called back and told me otherwise.
He got our old place sold within two weeks (which is normal in the market we're in) but made it a point to tell us how little he'd be making on the sale and how much money he put in to advertising etc. Not a problem with me but doesn't it seem a little unprofessional for him to keep pointing out how little he's making. Inspection report turned up only one item and we're willing to fix it if it's truly a problem but we've talked to several plumbers who say it isn't and the inspector messed up. We're trying to get the inspectors information so we can talk to him but the realtor hasn't been particularly helpful with that either.
There are a few more examples of him coming up short but I guess I feel like I've done all the legwork on the buying end and more than half the work on the selling end. What's he doing to earn his keep? Is this normal of realtors? Should we be asking for some sort of concession on his side since he doesn't seem to be doing much for us? We worked with one in another state who took care of everything for us and maybe we were just spoiled.... We're definitely on the low end of his price range but he'll still but the commission on the sale of our home was $19,000 split between both and will be almost $30,000 on the home we're buying so I feel like he should be doing more.
So our realtor isn't exactly doing a stellar job in my mind. He's been both our buyers and sellers agent during the process.
I found the place we're currently under contract to buy. I told him when we needed an inspector and he scheduled one at a time that didn't work for us so I went out and found an inspector. He said the inspector would get the lockbox code and set up the inspection. Inspection company called back and told me otherwise.
He got our old place sold within two weeks (which is normal in the market we're in) but made it a point to tell us how little he'd be making on the sale and how much money he put in to advertising etc. Not a problem with me but doesn't it seem a little unprofessional for him to keep pointing out how little he's making. Inspection report turned up only one item and we're willing to fix it if it's truly a problem but we've talked to several plumbers who say it isn't and the inspector messed up. We're trying to get the inspectors information so we can talk to him but the realtor hasn't been particularly helpful with that either.
There are a few more examples of him coming up short but I guess I feel like I've done all the legwork on the buying end and more than half the work on the selling end. What's he doing to earn his keep? Is this normal of realtors? Should we be asking for some sort of concession on his side since he doesn't seem to be doing much for us? We worked with one in another state who took care of everything for us and maybe we were just spoiled.... We're definitely on the low end of his price range but he'll still but the commission on the sale of our home was $19,000 split between both and will be almost $30,000 on the home we're buying so I feel like he should be doing more.
I recently bought a house, but at a fraction of the price points you're dealing with. In our case, the Realtor had very little to do with the inspection. She handed us a long list of local certified inspectors, suggested that in her experience it was good to hire one that had some structural engineering certification (lots of old brick homes and masonry retaining walls in the area), and that was the end of it. We chose and hired the inspector ourselves. Any issues we might've had with the inspector would've been up to us to address. The inspector sent his report directly to me, and I forwarded a copy of it to my Realtor; not the other way around. How is it working in your case?
It seems to me that if the Realtor were to choose the inspector, that would open up all sorts of conflict-of-interest problems, because of the possibility of collusion between realtor and inspector to keep the sale going smoothly and the price high. So I'm surprised that your realtor was willing to arrange an inspector in the first place. Since your Realtor apparently wasn't involved in hiring the inspector, what do you expect him to do about the unsatisfactory inspection?
posted by jon1270 at 10:57 AM on June 25, 2012
It seems to me that if the Realtor were to choose the inspector, that would open up all sorts of conflict-of-interest problems, because of the possibility of collusion between realtor and inspector to keep the sale going smoothly and the price high. So I'm surprised that your realtor was willing to arrange an inspector in the first place. Since your Realtor apparently wasn't involved in hiring the inspector, what do you expect him to do about the unsatisfactory inspection?
posted by jon1270 at 10:57 AM on June 25, 2012
He's been both our buyers and sellers agent during the process.
Warning bells are going off in my head here. This arrangement can work, but as a buyer you are pretty much not represented in this scenario. If you haven't signed anything, I recommend interviewing a few realtors in your area and asking them if they could represent you on the purchase. It won't make any difference in the price of the home, but you will have an advocate on your side.
posted by dgran at 11:00 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Warning bells are going off in my head here. This arrangement can work, but as a buyer you are pretty much not represented in this scenario. If you haven't signed anything, I recommend interviewing a few realtors in your area and asking them if they could represent you on the purchase. It won't make any difference in the price of the home, but you will have an advocate on your side.
posted by dgran at 11:00 AM on June 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
You seem to be conflating how much work a realtor does with how much the realtor gets paid. These two have nothing in common with each other in standard realtor arrangements. The realtor is being paid to sell your house and to buy another house. So long as the house is sold (and it was) and so long as you end up buying the new house (as it sounds like you will be), the realtor is compensated according to your arrangement. Consider that all work that realtors do on deals that don't work out is uncompensated, and work done for properties that are difficult to sell is undercompensated. Properties that sell quickly make up for those two cases and lead to realtors making "too much money" for "too little work". In actuality, it is the realtor hedging their bets on deals they are working on.
You can ask for any concession you want. From your description, it sounds like you have little justification other than a mishandled inspection and a bit of lack of professionalism on his part, but if you feel you have been mistreated, by all means, ask. However, he is under no obligation to reduce his fee correspondingly.
posted by saeculorum at 11:01 AM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
You can ask for any concession you want. From your description, it sounds like you have little justification other than a mishandled inspection and a bit of lack of professionalism on his part, but if you feel you have been mistreated, by all means, ask. However, he is under no obligation to reduce his fee correspondingly.
posted by saeculorum at 11:01 AM on June 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
dgran, I think he means that this Realtor is handling both the sale of the OP's old house and the purchase of the OP's new house, not that he's representing both buyer and seller in a single transaction.
posted by jon1270 at 11:03 AM on June 25, 2012
posted by jon1270 at 11:03 AM on June 25, 2012
So he's making money on the sale of your old place, the purchase of your new place and he's whinging about it?
You're almost through the process, but you might want to sit down and have a "come to Jesus" meeting with him and his broker. If you don't feel that he's representing you appropriately, then you need to say so.
Realtors work on referrals, and if his performance is lack-luster, you might want to let him and his boss know so they can address these issues.
Typically, if someone is getting two commisions on one sale, I'd try to shave a point off, since a realtor may get 3% from the sale or 3% from the purchase, but rarely both.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:04 AM on June 25, 2012
You're almost through the process, but you might want to sit down and have a "come to Jesus" meeting with him and his broker. If you don't feel that he's representing you appropriately, then you need to say so.
Realtors work on referrals, and if his performance is lack-luster, you might want to let him and his boss know so they can address these issues.
Typically, if someone is getting two commisions on one sale, I'd try to shave a point off, since a realtor may get 3% from the sale or 3% from the purchase, but rarely both.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:04 AM on June 25, 2012
Full disclosure: I'm a real estate agent myself.
I find it highly irregular that an inspector would be allowed to do an inspection alone at a property. The buyer's agent needs to be there, IMO. That's now how I would do it. Maybe this is normal in your area? It isn't here (in metro Atlanta).
Marketing costs aren't always obvious to the seller, but you are paying him for the service he is providing, all inclusive. He had a chance to negotiate the fee for his service when you sign the Exclusive Seller's Agency Agreement (or whatever it is in your area--you did sign this, right?).
He may just be the gripey type. That is unfortunate, because he will earn his future business from your referrals. It sounds like you are not likely to give him a raving endorsement. His philosophy may be to not give 100% to his lower-price point clientele--again, unfortunate.
Keep in mind that lots of folk are way more involved in the buying and selling process than ever before, because of the profound amount of information available on property. No longer is it up to the agent to determine what you see; by and large, the consumer has access to almost the same information as the agent. Yes, we see private remarks and notes on the property or whatnot, but the general information is the same. That may give the illusion that this is an easy job, or that there's nothing to buying and selling real estate. Part of your frustration is probably due to the fact that from what you've said here, your transactions have been pretty smooth. (Congratulations--that doesn't happen often.)
Has he helped on procuring financing? Title issues? Working with your current mortgage holder? Escrow problems? Will he be there at the closing (both) to explain the documents? Any points on negotiation?
If you have signed agency agreements, you are going to have a really hard time negotiating anything now. If you haven't signed agency agreements, and ask him to reduce his fee, you are going to end up with a ticked-off Realtor, and if you don't like the service now, you won't like it afterward. Focus on what can be improved to your satisfaction. While you don't want the laziest Realtor in town, he doesn't want a client who can never be satisfied.
Again, congratulations on your purchase and sale! Best of luck.
posted by FergieBelle at 11:04 AM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
I find it highly irregular that an inspector would be allowed to do an inspection alone at a property. The buyer's agent needs to be there, IMO. That's now how I would do it. Maybe this is normal in your area? It isn't here (in metro Atlanta).
Marketing costs aren't always obvious to the seller, but you are paying him for the service he is providing, all inclusive. He had a chance to negotiate the fee for his service when you sign the Exclusive Seller's Agency Agreement (or whatever it is in your area--you did sign this, right?).
He may just be the gripey type. That is unfortunate, because he will earn his future business from your referrals. It sounds like you are not likely to give him a raving endorsement. His philosophy may be to not give 100% to his lower-price point clientele--again, unfortunate.
Keep in mind that lots of folk are way more involved in the buying and selling process than ever before, because of the profound amount of information available on property. No longer is it up to the agent to determine what you see; by and large, the consumer has access to almost the same information as the agent. Yes, we see private remarks and notes on the property or whatnot, but the general information is the same. That may give the illusion that this is an easy job, or that there's nothing to buying and selling real estate. Part of your frustration is probably due to the fact that from what you've said here, your transactions have been pretty smooth. (Congratulations--that doesn't happen often.)
Has he helped on procuring financing? Title issues? Working with your current mortgage holder? Escrow problems? Will he be there at the closing (both) to explain the documents? Any points on negotiation?
If you have signed agency agreements, you are going to have a really hard time negotiating anything now. If you haven't signed agency agreements, and ask him to reduce his fee, you are going to end up with a ticked-off Realtor, and if you don't like the service now, you won't like it afterward. Focus on what can be improved to your satisfaction. While you don't want the laziest Realtor in town, he doesn't want a client who can never be satisfied.
Again, congratulations on your purchase and sale! Best of luck.
posted by FergieBelle at 11:04 AM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
D'oh! Never mind what I said about the dual representation. I misunderstood. Thanks for catching that, john1270.
posted by dgran at 11:14 AM on June 25, 2012
posted by dgran at 11:14 AM on June 25, 2012
Tell them you can cut them loose on the pending purchase if they'd rather use their time on more fruitful clients.
posted by rhizome at 11:52 AM on June 25, 2012
posted by rhizome at 11:52 AM on June 25, 2012
Response by poster: FergieBellle - I've arranged all the financing, title information and all mortgage work. He couldn't even pick up our earnest money and drop it off at the buyers Realtor. Its just a lot of little things that are adding up to some frustration. Wanted to make sure I wasn't out of line and expecting too much before I brought it up. And I will be at the inspection so I really don't mind if he is or not I just want him to set it up with the buyer now that I have the inspection set up.
posted by no bueno at 11:53 AM on June 25, 2012
posted by no bueno at 11:53 AM on June 25, 2012
If he is making $30K off you, he should be doing a lot more. A LOT MORE.
At this point, you really only have two choices - live with it, or fire him and start over. I would fire him and start over.
But there is no incentive for him to re-negotiate his fee with you. You let it go too far.
posted by Flood at 12:06 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
At this point, you really only have two choices - live with it, or fire him and start over. I would fire him and start over.
But there is no incentive for him to re-negotiate his fee with you. You let it go too far.
posted by Flood at 12:06 PM on June 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
OP, it's hard to see that you would be out of line, given what you've said here. But I would still approach this in a way of how to improve. Think or two or three things you need done (if there are any--you seem very efficient!) and lay out the expectations.
It may be a good idea to feel out his supervising broker, if you think it's warranted, and let him/her know that you are not satisfied. But if this is how the entire brokerage operates, what's the point?
Do you think it's a surprise to the Realtor that you aren't getting the service that you want or need?
posted by FergieBelle at 12:43 PM on June 25, 2012
It may be a good idea to feel out his supervising broker, if you think it's warranted, and let him/her know that you are not satisfied. But if this is how the entire brokerage operates, what's the point?
Do you think it's a surprise to the Realtor that you aren't getting the service that you want or need?
posted by FergieBelle at 12:43 PM on June 25, 2012
Run away. Do not walk. Run away.
What he seems to be doing is what's called dual agency - when a realtor is representing both buyer and seller. For general background: Here's the NY General Counsel, a consumer group, and from a Colorado group of buyers agents, and even a real estate newsletter. You should seriously consider getting an agent who only represents buyers.
If you are in Colorado, I think this may actually be illegal. (EMPHASIS HERE: IANAL or real estate professional, please consult with someone who is before taking any action.) State law says that you can be a sellers agent, a buyers agent or a "transaction broker" who facilitates a transaction but doesn't represent either party. This means he can not legally be "both our buyers and sellers agent during the process." (I assume you mean on the same transaction.) He should have given you a form to sign that clarifies exactly what his relationship is to both parties in the transaction. If you didn't that is also an issue.
Here's the link to the Colorado consumer agency information on this (its actually very poorly explained here) and to the relevant statute if you feel like digging into it or asking someone to do it for you.
I am not you and you are not me, but I've been burned by a very similar situation before and would be at least having some informal conversations with a lawyer about this situation.
Finally, if this agent is the one who recommended the inspector, that is another huge red flag. The inspector should be absolutely independent from the agent/broker. Ideally, antagonistic. Because you want the inspector to find everything the agent hasn't told you about the house, because the agent needs you to buy the house in order to make money. This guy is cheesy, but he makes some good points. (Though I assume out of respect for the HGTV interests, focuses his anger more on the contractors who do bad work than on the real estate agents who overlook it.) Here's more info on independent inspectors and some ideas for who to call.
posted by RandlePatrickMcMurphy at 2:04 PM on June 25, 2012
What he seems to be doing is what's called dual agency - when a realtor is representing both buyer and seller. For general background: Here's the NY General Counsel, a consumer group, and from a Colorado group of buyers agents, and even a real estate newsletter. You should seriously consider getting an agent who only represents buyers.
If you are in Colorado, I think this may actually be illegal. (EMPHASIS HERE: IANAL or real estate professional, please consult with someone who is before taking any action.) State law says that you can be a sellers agent, a buyers agent or a "transaction broker" who facilitates a transaction but doesn't represent either party. This means he can not legally be "both our buyers and sellers agent during the process." (I assume you mean on the same transaction.) He should have given you a form to sign that clarifies exactly what his relationship is to both parties in the transaction. If you didn't that is also an issue.
Here's the link to the Colorado consumer agency information on this (its actually very poorly explained here) and to the relevant statute if you feel like digging into it or asking someone to do it for you.
I am not you and you are not me, but I've been burned by a very similar situation before and would be at least having some informal conversations with a lawyer about this situation.
Finally, if this agent is the one who recommended the inspector, that is another huge red flag. The inspector should be absolutely independent from the agent/broker. Ideally, antagonistic. Because you want the inspector to find everything the agent hasn't told you about the house, because the agent needs you to buy the house in order to make money. This guy is cheesy, but he makes some good points. (Though I assume out of respect for the HGTV interests, focuses his anger more on the contractors who do bad work than on the real estate agents who overlook it.) Here's more info on independent inspectors and some ideas for who to call.
posted by RandlePatrickMcMurphy at 2:04 PM on June 25, 2012
RandlePatrickMcMurphy: The OP is not referring to dual agency. The OP is referring to two separate transactions - a purchasing transaction that is in progress and a selling transaction that has already occurred.
posted by saeculorum at 2:12 PM on June 25, 2012
posted by saeculorum at 2:12 PM on June 25, 2012
Response by poster: Flood he won't be making 30k. That will be the approximate payout to both Realtors. But still a pretty penny for what I feel he's been doing.
And yes sorry I didn't speak more clearly but he is representing us as our sellers agent for the sale of our home and a buyers agent for the other home we're buying.
posted by no bueno at 2:43 PM on June 25, 2012
And yes sorry I didn't speak more clearly but he is representing us as our sellers agent for the sale of our home and a buyers agent for the other home we're buying.
posted by no bueno at 2:43 PM on June 25, 2012
Ah yes, I see that now - and that it was already pointed out upthread. Sorry. So maybe I wouldn't run to a lawyer, but I would definitely be suspicious.
It sounds like he may be acting more like a transaction broker than a buyers agent: "A transaction broker is one who assists a buyer, seller, or both throughout a real estate transaction without being an agent or advocate for the interests of either the buyer or seller. Unlike Agency, Transaction Brokerage does not have to be established through a written contract. Transaction brokerage can be established through written disclosure. The disclosure defines the broker's duties and responsibilities and is not a contract. The transaction broker disclosure does not limit you to the services of any one broker. If done through a written contract, the contract is an employment agreement which binds you to the broker for a specified period of time."
posted by RandlePatrickMcMurphy at 2:58 PM on June 25, 2012
It sounds like he may be acting more like a transaction broker than a buyers agent: "A transaction broker is one who assists a buyer, seller, or both throughout a real estate transaction without being an agent or advocate for the interests of either the buyer or seller. Unlike Agency, Transaction Brokerage does not have to be established through a written contract. Transaction brokerage can be established through written disclosure. The disclosure defines the broker's duties and responsibilities and is not a contract. The transaction broker disclosure does not limit you to the services of any one broker. If done through a written contract, the contract is an employment agreement which binds you to the broker for a specified period of time."
posted by RandlePatrickMcMurphy at 2:58 PM on June 25, 2012
I dunno what's normal among realtors (nor do I have advice about how to haggle about commission this late in the game).
That said, when I bought a house my agent cheerfully:
--drove me to dozens of places
--arranged inspections at two different houses, and was there the whole time
--arranged for additional professionals (electric, oil tank, radon, chimney, carpentry) to come give quotes about the stuff that needed to be fixed, and was there the whole time
--arranged the escrow + title & made intros to mortgage brokers, an accountant and a lawyer
--helped with some pretty rocky negotiations
--got me a new homeowners' book and lent me $150
So in your shoes I would also be feeling let down, ESPECIALLY by your agent's complaints regarding the "measly little commission." $9500 for two weeks work comes out to $678 a day! (I mean, I know, yeah, taxes, advertising, his car payments, all the other people whose deals went south and yours is supposed to be taking up the slack, and so forth. But still, dude. $678 a day!)
posted by feets at 4:15 PM on June 25, 2012
That said, when I bought a house my agent cheerfully:
--drove me to dozens of places
--arranged inspections at two different houses, and was there the whole time
--arranged for additional professionals (electric, oil tank, radon, chimney, carpentry) to come give quotes about the stuff that needed to be fixed, and was there the whole time
--arranged the escrow + title & made intros to mortgage brokers, an accountant and a lawyer
--helped with some pretty rocky negotiations
--got me a new homeowners' book and lent me $150
So in your shoes I would also be feeling let down, ESPECIALLY by your agent's complaints regarding the "measly little commission." $9500 for two weeks work comes out to $678 a day! (I mean, I know, yeah, taxes, advertising, his car payments, all the other people whose deals went south and yours is supposed to be taking up the slack, and so forth. But still, dude. $678 a day!)
posted by feets at 4:15 PM on June 25, 2012
I'd be pretty disgusted with him. Especially the part about his whining he's not being compensated enough with your "measly little commission." You're probably stuck with the useless git, but if possible, I'd DTMFA.
If you're stuck with him, you better read your paperwork with x-ray glasses and do all due diligence with this turkey.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:39 PM on June 25, 2012
If you're stuck with him, you better read your paperwork with x-ray glasses and do all due diligence with this turkey.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:39 PM on June 25, 2012
Y'know, I've met a lot of IDIOTS who happen to hold real estate agent licenses. People I wouldn't buy an apple from.
The agent I use now is awesome, because she is diligent, professional, and understands the importance of helping people understand the nuances of complex transactions. It's why I've done 3 houses with her, and given her 5-6 other referrals.
The agent is supposed to represent your interests, and you clearly perceive that he is not doing so. So fire him. Get another one. There's plenty out there.
posted by Thistledown at 10:00 AM on June 26, 2012
The agent I use now is awesome, because she is diligent, professional, and understands the importance of helping people understand the nuances of complex transactions. It's why I've done 3 houses with her, and given her 5-6 other referrals.
The agent is supposed to represent your interests, and you clearly perceive that he is not doing so. So fire him. Get another one. There's plenty out there.
posted by Thistledown at 10:00 AM on June 26, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by no bueno at 10:44 AM on June 25, 2012