Black Belt Certification Issue - Tae Kwon Do
June 18, 2012 9:10 AM Subscribe
Should I keep training in this school for my belt, or move on?
I am hoping to get some advice on how to move forward after experiencing some issues with my black belt certification in Tae Kwon Do.
The grand master I study under has a very small class of adults that he teaches Tae Kwon Do (TKD) to, and his main business is his acupuncture. Because of this, he doesn't do these grandiose promotions, he just tests you in class and when you are ready he gives you the belt. I have seen him do this with many students, and you can always tell when he is secretly testing a person, and then the next day that person gets their belt and certificate.
A few months ago, my master approached me and asked me to fill out the paperwork to get the certification with the Kukkiwon in Korea - the official place to get a certified black belt. He asked me to pay $600 for this, which was a surprise cost to me, he never communicated that, but for the sake of getting the belt I coughed it up.
Now it's a few months later and I have been waiting for him to give me the piece of paper, but he wasn't giving it to me and I started to get concerned. A few other black belts in the class looked into it for me and they said he was just waiting for two other people in the class to be ready so he could award us our belts all at the same time. I didn't necessarily think this was fair as they are far from ready, but again, I was sticking it out.
I had experienced an injury and was out of class, and my master called me on the phone last week and asked me to come in and pick up my certificate. When I got there, he asked me to fill out another form instead. Now I am starting to grow concerned...
It turns out that he has decided to change the process in which he awards black belts. Now I am going to be subjected to a test (of which he can not give me an exact date), and apparently he is requesting another $200 for me to take this test and get my certification which will yield me an interim belt that is half brown and half black - if he feels afterwards I deserve the belt I will get it. I feel like I overpaid already and now he wants another $200. And now I have to take an official test when that was never made aware to me. And have to deal with this interim belt??? You can't change the process on someone 2 days before they are due their belt!
On the other side of it, I checked the Kukkiwon, and I have been officially registered as a black belt since April 20th! It's now June 18th, and I feel like he is using this black belt to get more money out of me! And once I become a black belt my tuition goes down, and of course my tuition is due next week, and I think he is trying to get another full payment out of me.
Knowing what I knew about the registration, having been lied to about coming in to pick up my certificate, and then being asked to pay more money just for an interim belt, I got very upset and raised my voice to my master and pretty much walked out while slamming the door in his face. Now he is telling me I lack the mental discipline to receive my black belt.
Does anyone have any advice for me? I feel like he has been jerking me around for months with this black belt that I very much deserve. There is a part of me that never wants to go back ever again, but then that other part wants the certification I have worked so hard for so bad!!!
The man is very nasty and likes to call people stupid and I think he realizes that once I receive the belt, I am going to continue my training elsewhere which is probably why he is holding out on me too.
Should I keep going in hopes I finally get the belt, or should I cut my losses and move on?
I am hoping to get some advice on how to move forward after experiencing some issues with my black belt certification in Tae Kwon Do.
The grand master I study under has a very small class of adults that he teaches Tae Kwon Do (TKD) to, and his main business is his acupuncture. Because of this, he doesn't do these grandiose promotions, he just tests you in class and when you are ready he gives you the belt. I have seen him do this with many students, and you can always tell when he is secretly testing a person, and then the next day that person gets their belt and certificate.
A few months ago, my master approached me and asked me to fill out the paperwork to get the certification with the Kukkiwon in Korea - the official place to get a certified black belt. He asked me to pay $600 for this, which was a surprise cost to me, he never communicated that, but for the sake of getting the belt I coughed it up.
Now it's a few months later and I have been waiting for him to give me the piece of paper, but he wasn't giving it to me and I started to get concerned. A few other black belts in the class looked into it for me and they said he was just waiting for two other people in the class to be ready so he could award us our belts all at the same time. I didn't necessarily think this was fair as they are far from ready, but again, I was sticking it out.
I had experienced an injury and was out of class, and my master called me on the phone last week and asked me to come in and pick up my certificate. When I got there, he asked me to fill out another form instead. Now I am starting to grow concerned...
It turns out that he has decided to change the process in which he awards black belts. Now I am going to be subjected to a test (of which he can not give me an exact date), and apparently he is requesting another $200 for me to take this test and get my certification which will yield me an interim belt that is half brown and half black - if he feels afterwards I deserve the belt I will get it. I feel like I overpaid already and now he wants another $200. And now I have to take an official test when that was never made aware to me. And have to deal with this interim belt??? You can't change the process on someone 2 days before they are due their belt!
On the other side of it, I checked the Kukkiwon, and I have been officially registered as a black belt since April 20th! It's now June 18th, and I feel like he is using this black belt to get more money out of me! And once I become a black belt my tuition goes down, and of course my tuition is due next week, and I think he is trying to get another full payment out of me.
Knowing what I knew about the registration, having been lied to about coming in to pick up my certificate, and then being asked to pay more money just for an interim belt, I got very upset and raised my voice to my master and pretty much walked out while slamming the door in his face. Now he is telling me I lack the mental discipline to receive my black belt.
Does anyone have any advice for me? I feel like he has been jerking me around for months with this black belt that I very much deserve. There is a part of me that never wants to go back ever again, but then that other part wants the certification I have worked so hard for so bad!!!
The man is very nasty and likes to call people stupid and I think he realizes that once I receive the belt, I am going to continue my training elsewhere which is probably why he is holding out on me too.
Should I keep going in hopes I finally get the belt, or should I cut my losses and move on?
Whatever course of action involves not giving this guy any more money is the one you should take. I see no reason why he wouldn't be absolutely clear with you about what you need to do and what hoops need jumping through.
And maybe see about what exactly happened to your $600. Can you ask any of the other black belts how it went down for them?
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:18 AM on June 18, 2012
And maybe see about what exactly happened to your $600. Can you ask any of the other black belts how it went down for them?
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:18 AM on June 18, 2012
Cut your losses. It seems pretty clear the guy is soaking you for money. BTW, how did you ever make the decision to stay with him through the black belt if he is "very nasty and likes to call people stupid"? So you are a registered black belt. You're going through this for a bogus piece of paper? Makes no sense.
posted by txmon at 9:18 AM on June 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by txmon at 9:18 AM on June 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
How much does this certificate matter to you, as opposed to the pride of mastery that you have clearly achieved? Do you have plans of starting a TKD group of your own and expect to rely on your master's name recognition or training pedigree? If not, what other factors are contributing to your decision-making process?
posted by Nomyte at 9:21 AM on June 18, 2012
posted by Nomyte at 9:21 AM on June 18, 2012
Response by poster: I have spoken to the other black belts, and they have expressed the same frustrations with the fees. Nothing is outlined anywhere, so a lot of it just comes as a surprise. Maybe everyone else is more well off than I am though, because they seem to be okay with complying to the fees without question.
The $600 I paid was for the certificate only. Apparently the additional $200 is to get the physical belt. During our argument, I said I want the certificate I paid for, I could care less about the belt, he said that wasn't enough - all or nothing
One of the senior belts said a lot of times he registers you early so that when you are ready he has something to give you, which often gives the impression that you are eligible to receive the belt. to me that is very backwards, and I shouldn't have to cough up money for something he is trying to get a head start on. If I am being registered than I deserve the belt.
The grand master is a 65 year old Korean and doesn't speak english very well. I think because this isn't his main business he doesn't take much effort to outline fees for anyone, and feels that it is okay to change the process in the middle.
No other black belt has ever been subjected to a test or an interim half brown/half black belt before either, they were all surprised when I told them this. AND the $200 I am being asked to pay, used to be an additional $60 charge for everyone else just 2 months ago.
I honestly don't know why I stayed so long at this school, it was probably more my classmates. They all call him a racist, mysogynistic, pig, but like any relationship it takes time to see what is really going on, and by the time I did I figured I would just keep sticking it out until I got the belt!
I would like to continue gaining more degrees of belts so that perhaps in the future I could open my own TKD school. And now I am learning that he can even have my certification revoked if I never go back. I am not sure if that is true though or if they are just threatening me. And by they, I mean my masters most senior black belt - I have been speaking through him since the fight due to the language barrier, and he seems to be just as scheming as the master himself.
I know in my heart I have achieved the belt, but it means so much to me to finally receive that bogus piece of paper, and the belt itself. I thought about it for so long and visioned it in my hands so it just hurts to realize that even though I have it, I don't really have it.
posted by glitrqn at 9:39 AM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
The $600 I paid was for the certificate only. Apparently the additional $200 is to get the physical belt. During our argument, I said I want the certificate I paid for, I could care less about the belt, he said that wasn't enough - all or nothing
One of the senior belts said a lot of times he registers you early so that when you are ready he has something to give you, which often gives the impression that you are eligible to receive the belt. to me that is very backwards, and I shouldn't have to cough up money for something he is trying to get a head start on. If I am being registered than I deserve the belt.
The grand master is a 65 year old Korean and doesn't speak english very well. I think because this isn't his main business he doesn't take much effort to outline fees for anyone, and feels that it is okay to change the process in the middle.
No other black belt has ever been subjected to a test or an interim half brown/half black belt before either, they were all surprised when I told them this. AND the $200 I am being asked to pay, used to be an additional $60 charge for everyone else just 2 months ago.
I honestly don't know why I stayed so long at this school, it was probably more my classmates. They all call him a racist, mysogynistic, pig, but like any relationship it takes time to see what is really going on, and by the time I did I figured I would just keep sticking it out until I got the belt!
I would like to continue gaining more degrees of belts so that perhaps in the future I could open my own TKD school. And now I am learning that he can even have my certification revoked if I never go back. I am not sure if that is true though or if they are just threatening me. And by they, I mean my masters most senior black belt - I have been speaking through him since the fight due to the language barrier, and he seems to be just as scheming as the master himself.
I know in my heart I have achieved the belt, but it means so much to me to finally receive that bogus piece of paper, and the belt itself. I thought about it for so long and visioned it in my hands so it just hurts to realize that even though I have it, I don't really have it.
posted by glitrqn at 9:39 AM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
This will not get better. Further degrees will have the same or greater levels of bullshit, money-grubbing, and poor and/or nasty communication. Is that what you want your martial arts experience to be based on?
Cut your losses, find another school. If you really have the experience, you should be able to earn a legitimate black belt from a non-asshole pretty quickly. (Especially if you're already registered with the central body.)
posted by restless_nomad at 9:43 AM on June 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Cut your losses, find another school. If you really have the experience, you should be able to earn a legitimate black belt from a non-asshole pretty quickly. (Especially if you're already registered with the central body.)
posted by restless_nomad at 9:43 AM on June 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
I would move on. I have been training for many years in a different style, but I know black belts in TKD and other arts and this would not be considered acceptable by any of them.
You are likely very skilled if you have been training long enough to be considered for your black belt. Shop around. Find an instructor you like and connect with. He or she doesn't need to call themselves grandmaster, or have an affiliation with a larger organization. You need to feel their humility, integrity and humor, and desire to help people improve (at least, that's what I look for in an instructor). Even if another school made you start again at white belt, you would likely progress very quickly due to your prior training. If you move to another TKD school or similar art, they may not ask you to start with a beginner's rank.
That test/rank fee is egregious. I understand why schools would have reasonable testing fees (up to $100-$200 for an elaborate test, which would have actual expenses associated with it) but $600 so someone can hand you a belt the next time you come into class? A "registered" belt? Don't believe it. But I would definitely try to get the $ back. The dude runs a business, just like anyone else.
As a contrast: My recent promotion consisted of a review by a trusted colleague of my instructor, a celebratory dinner, some community service with my fellow reviewees, and a very sweaty, fun workout with a bunch of my peers.
Go find a school that is worthy of you.
posted by acanthous at 9:47 AM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
You are likely very skilled if you have been training long enough to be considered for your black belt. Shop around. Find an instructor you like and connect with. He or she doesn't need to call themselves grandmaster, or have an affiliation with a larger organization. You need to feel their humility, integrity and humor, and desire to help people improve (at least, that's what I look for in an instructor). Even if another school made you start again at white belt, you would likely progress very quickly due to your prior training. If you move to another TKD school or similar art, they may not ask you to start with a beginner's rank.
That test/rank fee is egregious. I understand why schools would have reasonable testing fees (up to $100-$200 for an elaborate test, which would have actual expenses associated with it) but $600 so someone can hand you a belt the next time you come into class? A "registered" belt? Don't believe it. But I would definitely try to get the $ back. The dude runs a business, just like anyone else.
As a contrast: My recent promotion consisted of a review by a trusted colleague of my instructor, a celebratory dinner, some community service with my fellow reviewees, and a very sweaty, fun workout with a bunch of my peers.
Go find a school that is worthy of you.
posted by acanthous at 9:47 AM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I know nothing about martial arts, so this is just speculation, but if Kukkiwon has you registered as a black belt in TKD, then do you really need this instructor any longer? Could you communicate with Kukkiwon and get certification/documentation sent to you? Can you purchase the (physical) black belt on your own? Perhaps some of that is a major faux pas, but as far as I can tell from reading this, you are already qualified/certified as a TWD black belt save for your instructor "declaring" you so.
posted by Nightman at 9:52 AM on June 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Nightman at 9:52 AM on June 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
For perspective, the karate style I study has a comparable fee for black belt promotions (first degree and up,) but the test is an all-day to multi-day affair with either the grandmaster of the style himself in New York, an eighth-degree instructor in your continent, or one of the very, very few other instructors allowed to award black belts (first-degree only.) The candidate also has to write essays and then endure a verbal discussion of them (so the testing instructor must have read them and prepared questions.) It's a fairly involved process, logistically, and there's overhead in terms of instructor time as well as materials. That's not to say they're not making a profit - my local school is NFP, but the style as a whole is not - but at least the fees are upfront and obviously you getting something of value.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:57 AM on June 18, 2012
posted by restless_nomad at 9:57 AM on June 18, 2012
Right, the fact that there are fees involved isn't surprising, but none of them should have been sprung upon you unawares, and he shouldn't be changing things at a whim. (For my particular aikido dojo, you'd also have to write essays, and would have to test at the parent dojo back on the East Coast).
Honestly, although it may set you back a little, I'd find another instructor, be diplomatic about the reasons you've left this one, and see if you can continue to study without having to worry about an instructor with so many issues.
posted by PussKillian at 10:14 AM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Honestly, although it may set you back a little, I'd find another instructor, be diplomatic about the reasons you've left this one, and see if you can continue to study without having to worry about an instructor with so many issues.
posted by PussKillian at 10:14 AM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I feel like he is using this black belt to get more money out of me!"
Because he is. Leave, and don't look back. regardless of how it started, fact is that this place is not teaching you the martial art you want to learn anymore.
I figured I would just keep sticking it out until I got the belt!
You want a 'black belt' - they're $15 on the web. the skills and effort behind that belt? you already proved you have them.
I'd take this as a learning opportunity. You say you wanted your own school? This is an opportunity for you to understand licensing boards and how they can be abused. Also, you can train another style or under another teacher. That will make you a better teacher down the road.
posted by anti social order at 11:06 AM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Because he is. Leave, and don't look back. regardless of how it started, fact is that this place is not teaching you the martial art you want to learn anymore.
I figured I would just keep sticking it out until I got the belt!
You want a 'black belt' - they're $15 on the web. the skills and effort behind that belt? you already proved you have them.
I'd take this as a learning opportunity. You say you wanted your own school? This is an opportunity for you to understand licensing boards and how they can be abused. Also, you can train another style or under another teacher. That will make you a better teacher down the road.
posted by anti social order at 11:06 AM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I had something similar happen to me 4 years ago. I'm out $500 and have a black belt that isn't backed up by a certificate. (memail me for the whole story)
My advice? Push to get your certificate from the Kukkiwon (maybe write them for help?), or sue the instructor so he'll cough up either the certificate or the $600.
Find another school--this one isn't good for you. If you love TKD and want to continue to study, you really don't want to continue to learn from someone who obviously doesn't live the tenets of TKD. There are instructors who will be all too happy to take you in and show you what a real TKD school is all about. :) I found a great school that I just returned to after a 3 year break. Yes, I have to learn this school's material, which includes new forms and other things, but at least I know I'm in a real Dojang this time.
posted by luckynerd at 11:36 AM on June 18, 2012
My advice? Push to get your certificate from the Kukkiwon (maybe write them for help?), or sue the instructor so he'll cough up either the certificate or the $600.
Find another school--this one isn't good for you. If you love TKD and want to continue to study, you really don't want to continue to learn from someone who obviously doesn't live the tenets of TKD. There are instructors who will be all too happy to take you in and show you what a real TKD school is all about. :) I found a great school that I just returned to after a 3 year break. Yes, I have to learn this school's material, which includes new forms and other things, but at least I know I'm in a real Dojang this time.
posted by luckynerd at 11:36 AM on June 18, 2012
I can't imagine training at a school where I didn't respect the instructor. You don't want anything else to do with this guy, find somewhere better. I know the belt is nice to have, but being satisfied with the process is more important.
posted by Trivia Newton John at 7:00 PM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Trivia Newton John at 7:00 PM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by griphus at 9:15 AM on June 18, 2012 [1 favorite]