Freelance design ate my brain!
July 25, 2005 6:08 PM Subscribe
Calling all freelance graphic designers! I need your assistance with a question of pricing.
The client in question is a sort of...wellness collective?...that's less than a year old. The space is shared by a massage therapist, Pilates and yoga instructors, a few people who do "energy work", and my physical therapist. They've asked me to design both a logo and a trifold pamphlet; pretty straightforward stuff. The problem, of course, is writing up a fair estimate. They hinted pretty heavily that they're on a budget, which I can appreciate, but I don't want to completely lowball it just because one of the clients happens to be my PT.
I've got a copy of the GAG Designers' Handbook, of course, but the pricing guidelines have always seemed a bit off to me: for example, $2000 is the low end of the range for designing a small client's logo. I've got a day job, also as a graphic designer, and the other freelance I've done has been subcontracting, so this is all new and anxiety-making for me.
(Other data points: I bill at $50/hr for my subcontracting work, have been designing for six years, and am operating in a mid-sized community in the Pacific Northwest.)
My inclination right now is to quote $800, with the option to pay a percentage of the fee (say, 30-40%?) in class credit, since I've been considering taking a class down there for some time now. What say you, fellow Metafilterians? Am I on the right track, or just on crack?
The client in question is a sort of...wellness collective?...that's less than a year old. The space is shared by a massage therapist, Pilates and yoga instructors, a few people who do "energy work", and my physical therapist. They've asked me to design both a logo and a trifold pamphlet; pretty straightforward stuff. The problem, of course, is writing up a fair estimate. They hinted pretty heavily that they're on a budget, which I can appreciate, but I don't want to completely lowball it just because one of the clients happens to be my PT.
I've got a copy of the GAG Designers' Handbook, of course, but the pricing guidelines have always seemed a bit off to me: for example, $2000 is the low end of the range for designing a small client's logo. I've got a day job, also as a graphic designer, and the other freelance I've done has been subcontracting, so this is all new and anxiety-making for me.
(Other data points: I bill at $50/hr for my subcontracting work, have been designing for six years, and am operating in a mid-sized community in the Pacific Northwest.)
My inclination right now is to quote $800, with the option to pay a percentage of the fee (say, 30-40%?) in class credit, since I've been considering taking a class down there for some time now. What say you, fellow Metafilterians? Am I on the right track, or just on crack?
I second winston. You don't want to be referred as "Vervain is good. Psst (cheap)."
With the freelance work I did, I kept track and billed all hours, then discounted with a handwritten note saying thanks when I opted to cut a deal. This helps maintain the integrity of your time. It gives the client a tangible idea you granted a favor.
You're entitled to pass on the project too. Your answer can be as simple as, "I'm sorry, I'm not the right person." Most people won't take it personally.
If worse comes to worse, barter. Your time for theirs -- provided you enjoy energy work. ;)
posted by pedantic at 7:44 PM on July 25, 2005
With the freelance work I did, I kept track and billed all hours, then discounted with a handwritten note saying thanks when I opted to cut a deal. This helps maintain the integrity of your time. It gives the client a tangible idea you granted a favor.
You're entitled to pass on the project too. Your answer can be as simple as, "I'm sorry, I'm not the right person." Most people won't take it personally.
If worse comes to worse, barter. Your time for theirs -- provided you enjoy energy work. ;)
posted by pedantic at 7:44 PM on July 25, 2005
I'm not sure how others work but I've been making web sites for a decade now and I hated being in the situation you're currently in. My solution, which won't help you this time, but here it is anyway: I don't work for people who don't tell me their budget. I ask right up front "Do you have a specific timeline/deadline in mind and what is your budget?" If they hem and haw, I walk. Simple as that. If the budget is much higher than I think it's worth (does happen), I tell them and they appreciate it and I do it for less. If the budget is too low, I tell them and
a) tell them what they can have from me for that $ instead of what they're initially asking for or
b) refer them to a cheaper designer or
d) decline the job
Note: this is how I work for "sites from scratch". For maintenance and touch up work or consulting, I have an hourly fee and I will give an estimate on # of hours it will take.
Lastly, if you're working for part barter, I suggest you ask for more than you think you want. ie, I did a site for a painter once and I was only aware of the prices on her art via the gallery, which is 100% more than the artist would get. (So, a $2k painting puts $1k in their pocket.) If the job is a $2k job in this instance, I'd ask for $2500 or $3k worth of art. It's still only $1250 or $1500 to the artist (under the normal price). Were I to ask for $2k, they'd be getting a super great deal and I'd be shorting myself.
posted by dobbs at 7:56 PM on July 25, 2005
a) tell them what they can have from me for that $ instead of what they're initially asking for or
b) refer them to a cheaper designer or
d) decline the job
Note: this is how I work for "sites from scratch". For maintenance and touch up work or consulting, I have an hourly fee and I will give an estimate on # of hours it will take.
Lastly, if you're working for part barter, I suggest you ask for more than you think you want. ie, I did a site for a painter once and I was only aware of the prices on her art via the gallery, which is 100% more than the artist would get. (So, a $2k painting puts $1k in their pocket.) If the job is a $2k job in this instance, I'd ask for $2500 or $3k worth of art. It's still only $1250 or $1500 to the artist (under the normal price). Were I to ask for $2k, they'd be getting a super great deal and I'd be shorting myself.
posted by dobbs at 7:56 PM on July 25, 2005
Don't discount your work - you'll just end up resenting the project.
One tip for working with companies "on a budget" - when you give them .jpg proofs, watermark them with "PROOF" so that they can't steal them. I learned that one the hard way.
Get everything in writing, too, and try to get a deposit up front.
posted by Ostara at 8:17 PM on July 25, 2005
One tip for working with companies "on a budget" - when you give them .jpg proofs, watermark them with "PROOF" so that they can't steal them. I learned that one the hard way.
Get everything in writing, too, and try to get a deposit up front.
posted by Ostara at 8:17 PM on July 25, 2005
I'm sure you know this - but reading Ostara's message made me remember this. Don't EVER give away free comps. The comps are 90% of the real work to me - the rest is just cut + pasty kinda stuff....
I've done $500 sites - which were basically a simple online brochure for the client. It can be ok work... just give them a maximum amount of hours you will give to the project.
Anything above it they need to pay by the hour.
There's a great contract here at AIGA
http://designforum.aiga.org/resources/file/2/1/7/standard_agreement.pdf
posted by mildred-pitt at 9:21 PM on July 25, 2005
I've done $500 sites - which were basically a simple online brochure for the client. It can be ok work... just give them a maximum amount of hours you will give to the project.
Anything above it they need to pay by the hour.
There's a great contract here at AIGA
http://designforum.aiga.org/resources/file/2/1/7/standard_agreement.pdf
posted by mildred-pitt at 9:21 PM on July 25, 2005
I agree with Ostara, don't discount your work unless your PT is a someone you really want to do a favor for. Quote a price that you will feel good about. Just because they want a deal from you doesn't mean they can't afford more.
I recently was referred for a freelance job. The client was someone I knew to be a PITA from others who'd worked with him. I quoted him a price that I felt would make the project worth my while. I didn't get the job, and I didn't care.
posted by clh at 9:33 PM on July 25, 2005
I recently was referred for a freelance job. The client was someone I knew to be a PITA from others who'd worked with him. I quoted him a price that I felt would make the project worth my while. I didn't get the job, and I didn't care.
posted by clh at 9:33 PM on July 25, 2005
Best answer: Think the logo will take 16 hours of your time or less? A logo or other high-profile piece can be quick and easy business if it's a small client. Or it can be a buzzing annoyance that hangs around you for months on end.
Of course, that is something you feel a lot more when you're freelancing full-time instead of as a sideline.
(If it makes you feel less out of line, the GAG Handbook appears to offload focus-group type research, prior testing of the logo in multiple contexts, and the writing of graphics standards for the logo onto the designer as part of the whole logo design product package. That arrangement has definitely got advantages and I am sure if logo design is Your Business that is exactly what you do. But, I doubt a "wellness collective" is going to bother with any of that.)
In the spirit: Anil Dash's guide to pricing for freelancers.
posted by furiousthought at 10:17 PM on July 25, 2005
Of course, that is something you feel a lot more when you're freelancing full-time instead of as a sideline.
(If it makes you feel less out of line, the GAG Handbook appears to offload focus-group type research, prior testing of the logo in multiple contexts, and the writing of graphics standards for the logo onto the designer as part of the whole logo design product package. That arrangement has definitely got advantages and I am sure if logo design is Your Business that is exactly what you do. But, I doubt a "wellness collective" is going to bother with any of that.)
In the spirit: Anil Dash's guide to pricing for freelancers.
posted by furiousthought at 10:17 PM on July 25, 2005
Response by poster: Hah! That's a beautiful link, furiousthought. Now if only I could figure out a way to implement that without driving off potential clients...
Thanks for all the suggestions; I can't believe I completely spaced on the first rule of negotiation--ask for more, then bargain down. I've been operating on the assumption that this'll be about a 20-hour project--the $800 of the original quote was me dropping my hourly to $40. Now I'm inclined to go in the opposite direction: keep my rate the same, maybe bring the estimated number of hours up slightly (better to over-estimate than under-), then cut a deal. I'm actually hoping they take up my offer to barter; it'd be nice to balance all this sedentary freelance with a yoga class or something.
I can't shake the feeling that I have the ingrained ex-Catholic guilt reflex to thank for this financial angst. It's very annoying.
posted by Vervain at 11:07 AM on July 26, 2005
Thanks for all the suggestions; I can't believe I completely spaced on the first rule of negotiation--ask for more, then bargain down. I've been operating on the assumption that this'll be about a 20-hour project--the $800 of the original quote was me dropping my hourly to $40. Now I'm inclined to go in the opposite direction: keep my rate the same, maybe bring the estimated number of hours up slightly (better to over-estimate than under-), then cut a deal. I'm actually hoping they take up my offer to barter; it'd be nice to balance all this sedentary freelance with a yoga class or something.
I can't shake the feeling that I have the ingrained ex-Catholic guilt reflex to thank for this financial angst. It's very annoying.
posted by Vervain at 11:07 AM on July 26, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
More specifically, what is the minimum acceptable hourly rate? This doesn't necessarily have to do with what others would charge but with things like what hourly rate would you start to feel you're wasting your time or being taken advantage of? (or if you're doing this in your "spare time," at what rate are you being unfair to your family/SO/whatever by working for such a low rate rather than spending time with them? etc.) Then structure your fees to protect you from reaching that point.
A suggestion: Rather than charge a lowball rate. I would invoice in such a way that your regular rate (e.g. $50/hr) appears and then a discount (or in-kind donation?) is subtracted to arrive at the lower rate. It is much easier to avoid being (or feeling like you've been) taken advantage of when you're giving them something, rather than just being cheap -- e.g. they, or other potential clients they talk to, don't expect that they can always get you to work for this rate.
posted by winston at 6:40 PM on July 25, 2005